Support your local liberty business!

[Petar]

If the 1.2 million people who voted for Ron Paul all list their businesses on www.freemarketforliberty.com and then support each other economically as much as possible, then many more people will join our movement just for the economic benefits, and then they will become easy to educate also.

Businesses will be validated as legitimate liberty supporting organizations, when a tool is added that will allow listing owners to show how much money, if any, that they have donated to the CFL or specific liberty candidates.

This will allow us to create renewed sustained money bombs for liberty.

I plan on adding a feedback system as soon as possible, that will allow users to rate businesses, and will allow listing owners to respond as well.

Please visit www.freemarketforliberty.com and list your liberty supporting business today.

[Truth Warrior]

Much better. ;)

:)

[Roxi]

bump

[Petar]

bump

[Petar]

bump

[Meatwasp]

bump

[Brian Defferding]

Just added m'self.

[Petar]

Thank you very much Brian. These few early listings will really help me with getting this big ball rolling.

[newyearsrevolution08]

much better thread than the first one that was started..

keep up the hard work and I hope all works out.

[Petar]

much better thread than the first one that was started..

keep up the hard work and I hope all works out.

Heh, thank you very much!

[Bruno]

Great idea!

[gilliganscorner]

Hello Folks,

I want to take a moment to voice my support for what Social Engineer (that is a pretty ominous handle, SC, kinda like "Skinner Box" :D) is doing here.

This could lead to the most significant value to members of this forum.

As most of you know, we are unwilling or unwitting participants in the "red market", that is to say, we are enslaved to a taxation/inflation system backed by State violence. The State siphons off a HUGE (it wouldn't be out there to say 80% if you factor in ALL direct and indirect taxes you pay, and the REAL inflation rate - some say between 12 and 15%) of your productivity by confiscating your money directly via taxation, and indirectly via inflation.

You cannot trade your productivity for anything other than Federal Reserve Points (FRPs) in the red market - as you are required to report your earnings to the State for taxation, regulation, and confiscation. Legal tender laws ensure that. The State demands taxes be paid in FRPs. This creates an artificial demand for those notes that have an arbitrary unit (the dollar) whose purchasing power is stolen from you by an arbitrary force (the State/Banking cartel - a.k.a The Federal Reserve). In other words, the State ensures that Gresham's Law works (http://gilliganscorner.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/greshams-law-only-works-because-of-state-violence/).

If you do not pay your taxes, the State will ultimately (after a great deal of harassment) deploy bad guys wearing clown suits and shiny badges to your house with guns to waterboard you and your family. It is raw terrorism. Who are you more afraid of? The State or some guy allegedly hiding in a cave with bad kidneys (who is more than likely dead (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zScYmvmANcA)) half-way around the world, or the IRS Terrorist Regime? I think we all know the answer to that question.

OK, Back on track.

We all know the US is bankrupt. It is only a matter of time before the economic system we are enslaved to implodes. The only reason that it has not collapsed like a third rate banana republic is that it's dollar is still viewed as the world's reserve currency (thanks to the Bretton Woods agreement that created the US dollar hegemony)...But that viewpoint is rapidly changing as Dr. Paul noted in this speech to Congress in February of 2006 (http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2006/cr021506.htm).

Prior to the implosion, you will feel the pain of your dollar losing value by seeing it in soaring prices. Average Americans, lobotomized of critical thinking skills and authoritarian brainwashing by government indoctrination camps we call "public education", will turn to the State pleading "something has to be done!" which of course the State will expand it's reach, size, and power like never before, similar to how the Fed is seeking greater expansion, essentially to nationalize the financially industry via the excuse of the recent $9/11 "credit crisis" hoax. The subverted MSM will do it's best to whip people into a frenzy by scaring the shit out of them via establishment deflections such as I.O.U.S.A. This is the same thing that happened in the 30's when the Fed CAUSED the Great Depression that allowed FDR to usher in the raw deal called the "New Deal" - arguably the greatest expansion of the State ever seen.

That all said, setting up a counter-economy network of trading partners prior to the coming crash is ABSOLUTELY crucial. Most of us lack the means to produce all the goods we need. This is why we need to identify trading partners and establish relationships now. This is how we take individual responsibility for ourselves into our hands and not wait for the State to violently fuck us over.

Social Engineer has provided the first step to identify potential trading partners. I would like to see this also grow into a site where people can identify potential employers/employees who are willing to trade their services using whatever money that is sound (i.e. probably gold or silver coins - but people are free to trade in whatever commodity they wish of course).

Initially, I foresee most people working part time in this counter economy (it actually has a name - "agorism (http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/2961/41106.aspx#41106)"), as we cannot work full time in it, due to the requirement of paying taxes in Federal Reserve Points, or we would need to purchase something in the red market that is not available from participants on SC's site...yet. You need gas? You would still have to get that from a red market participant...until an independent stepped into SC's website and was willing to trade sound money (i.e. not Federal Reserve Points). In the red market, if I hire you, I am required to report the transaction to the IRS. When you are paid, you are required to pay your taxes to the IRS. You literally need Federal Reserve permission points to work!

By participating in what SC has set up, we get to protect the fruits of our labor from theft via taxation and inflation - provided we make the transition to sound money. Even if the State doesn't collapse during our working lifetime, we still profit from our activity. I think this is the only mechanism that stands a non-zero chance of success. For those of you who have read "Atlas Shrugged", it is a virtual Galt's Gulch, but you get to hide in plain sight!

Even if the State catches on and writes up some arbitrary rules to shut SC's site down, by then we would have established the network of trading partners - on pen and paper. New sites would spring up. Perhaps a P2P application will be built that facilitates trade with each other instead of files. The nice thing about P2P is that it is not centralized and would be difficult for the State to violently shut it down. It would be a "killer app".

Perhaps this site could be used where actors in the market rank the participant's trustworthiness. A State mole might be able to set up shop, but would not get far in the network.

I don't want to speak for you SC or hijack your idea to somewhere you didn't intend the purpose to go, but I thought I would highlight some possibilities to participants or lurkers in this thread.

Thoughts?

[Petar]

Hello Folks,

I want to take a moment to voice my support for what Social Engineer (that is a pretty ominous handle, SC, kinda like "Skinner Box" :D) is doing here.

This could lead to the most significant value to members of this forum.

As most of you know, we are unwilling or unwitting participants in the "red market", that is to say, we are enslaved to a taxation/inflation system backed by State violence. The State siphons off a HUGE (it wouldn't be out there to say 80% if you factor in ALL direct and indirect taxes you pay, and the REAL inflation rate - some say between 12 and 15%) of your productivity by confiscating your money directly via taxation, and indirectly via inflation.

You cannot trade your productivity for anything other than Federal Reserve Points (FRPs) in the red market - as you are required to report your earnings to the State for taxation, regulation, and confiscation. Legal tender laws ensure that. The State demands taxes be paid in FRPs. This creates an artificial demand for those notes that have an arbitrary unit (the dollar) whose purchasing power is stolen from you by an arbitrary force (the State/Banking cartel - a.k.a The Federal Reserve). In other words, the State ensures that Gresham's Law works (http://gilliganscorner.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/greshams-law-only-works-because-of-state-violence/).

If you do not pay your taxes, the State will ultimately (after a great deal of harassment) deploy bad guys wearing clown suits and shiny badges to your house with guns to waterboard you and your family. It is raw terrorism. Who are you more afraid of? The State or some guy allegedly hiding in a cave with bad kidneys (who is more than likely dead (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zScYmvmANcA)) half-way around the world, or the IRS Terrorist Regime? I think we all know the answer to that question.

OK, Back on track.

We all know the US is bankrupt. It is only a matter of time before the economic system we are enslaved to implodes. The only reason that it has not collapsed like a third rate banana republic is that it's dollar is still viewed as the world's reserve currency (thanks to the Bretton Woods agreement that created the US dollar hegemony)...But that viewpoint is rapidly changing as Dr. Paul noted in this speech to Congress in February of 2006 (http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2006/cr021506.htm).

Prior to the implosion, you will feel the pain of your dollar losing value by seeing it in soaring prices. Average Americans, lobotomized of critical thinking skills and authoritarian brainwashing by government indoctrination camps we call "public education", will turn to the State pleading "something has to be done!" which of course the State will expand it's reach, size, and power like never before, similar to how the Fed is seeking greater expansion, essentially to nationalize the financially industry via the excuse of the recent $9/11 "credit crisis" hoax. The subverted MSM will do it's best to whip people into a frenzy by scaring the shit out of them via establishment deflections such as I.O.U.S.A. This is the same thing that happened in the 30's when the Fed CAUSED the Great Depression that allowed FDR to usher in the raw deal called the "New Deal" - arguably the greatest expansion of the State ever seen.

That all said, setting up a counter-economy network of trading partners prior to the coming crash is ABSOLUTELY crucial. Most of us lack the means to produce all the goods we need. This is why we need to identify trading partners and establish relationships now. This is how we take individual responsibility for ourselves into our hands and not wait for the State to violently fuck us over.

Social Engineer has provided the first step to identify potential trading partners. I would like to see this also grow into a site where people can identify potential employers/employees who are willing to trade their services using whatever money that is sound (i.e. probably gold or silver coins - but people are free to trade in whatever commodity they wish of course).

Initially, I foresee most people working part time in this counter economy (it actually has a name - "agorism (http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/2961/41106.aspx#41106)"), as we cannot work full time in it, due to the requirement of paying taxes in Federal Reserve Points, or we would need to purchase something in the red market that is not available from participants on SC's site...yet. You need gas? You would still have to get that from a red market participant...until an independent stepped into SC's website and was willing to trade sound money (i.e. not Federal Reserve Points). In the red market, if I hire you, I am required to report the transaction to the IRS. When you are paid, you are required to pay your taxes to the IRS. You literally need Federal Reserve permission points to work!

By participating in what SC has set up, we get to protect the fruits of our labor from theft via taxation and inflation - provided we make the transition to sound money. Even if the State doesn't collapse during our working lifetime, we still profit from our activity. I think this is the only mechanism that stands a non-zero chance of success. For those of you who have read "Atlas Shrugged", it is a virtual Galt's Gulch, but you get to hide in plain sight!

Even if the State catches on and writes up some arbitrary rules to shut SC's site down, by then we would have established the network of trading partners - on pen and paper. New sites would spring up. Perhaps a P2P application will be built that facilitates trade with each other instead of files. The nice thing about P2P is that it is not centralized and would be difficult for the State to violently shut it down. It would be a "killer app".

Perhaps this site could be used where actors in the market rank the participant's trustworthiness. A State mole might be able to set up shop, but would not get far in the network.

I don't want to speak for you SC or hijack your idea to somewhere you didn't intend the purpose to go, but I thought I would highlight some possibilities to participants or lurkers in this thread.

Thoughts?

Yes, I admit it, my handle is horrible, and I nearly laughed out loud after I looked up what a skinner box is.

Those poor animals, who could ever do that to an innocent little creature?

Also, I really really appreciate a lot of the things that you are saying about the site.

If the 1.2 million people who all voted for Ron Paul will list their businesses on here, then we are going to have thousands and thousands of businesses to choose from, and well be able to see how much they are donating to liberty as well.

More people will be attracted solely for the economic advantage, and then they will be easy to educate also.

We'll be able to start making business connections with each other, and that will be CRUCIAL if (when) there is an economic collapse.

I am planning on adding a craigslist style classifieds site to the system, and that will help with things like help wanted postings, for rent postings, and whatever else.

A complete auction system, and also a BARTER system will be added.

The barter part I think should be immensely helpful in the event of an economic collapse.

I am not able to imagine how a PTP currency could work, but perhaps a barter system could be the most basic expression of that idea.

I do wonder if we could ever run our own electronic community currency, and how helpful that could be, and I will learn more about Ben Franklins Colonial Script and how that worked exactly, in order to find out if we might do well to emulate it for ourselves privately using modern technology.

Other than that, I will also be adding a tool to let listing owners show which electronic gold services that they support transactions with.

Though I'm not so sure that I would ever wanna rely on having too much of my savings stored as gold in someones elses vault in the event of an economic collapse.

[JoshLowry]

Tried to register but it said "Your account can not activated because your varification
codes are not correct, you can not login now."

Can you fix the spelling and my account? :)

[gilliganscorner]

Yes, I admit it, my handle is horrible, and I nearly laughed out loud after I looked up what a skinner box is.

Those poor animals, who could ever do that to an innocent little creature?

Also, I really really appreciate a lot of the things that you are saying about the site.

If the 1.2 million people who all voted for Ron Paul will list their businesses on here, then we are going to have thousands and thousands of businesses to choose from, and well be able to see how much they are donating to liberty as well.

More people will be attracted solely for the economic advantage, and then they will be easy to educate also.

We'll be able to start making business connections with each other, and that will be CRUCIAL if (when) there is an economic collapse.

I am planning on adding a craigslist style classifieds site to the system, and that will help with things like help wanted postings, for rent postings, and whatever else.

A complete auction system, and also a BARTER system will be added.

The barter part I think should be immensely helpful in the event of an economic collapse.

I am not able to imagine how a PTP currency could work, but perhaps a barter system could be the most basic expression of that idea.

I do wonder if we could ever run our own electronic community currency, and how helpful that could be, and I will learn more about Ben Franklins Colonial Script and how that worked exactly, in order to find out if we might do well to emulate it for ourselves privately using modern technology.

Other than that, I will also be adding a tool to let listing owners show which electronic gold services that they support transactions with.

Though I'm not so sure that I would ever wanna rely on having too much of my savings stored as gold in someones elses vault in the event of an economic collapse.

Don't worry about the P2P currency. I have had second thoughts about that, and if the collapse comes, you will need your local trading partners as opposed to global. Worry about your local market. Use gold and silver coins instead.

Barter is good, but it really only works when we have local coincidence of wants. You want a portable store of value.

DGCs (Digital Gold Currency sites) would be useful for small infrequent transactions for trading partners that are not considered local, but I would not keep any inventory in there. Use it for just-in-time purchases. You will want to start concentrating on your local trading network first.

And I wouldn't be so sure that the gold is even in their vault. Yeah, they say it is, but if you are like me, I wouldn't be so paranoid if they weren't really out to get me...:D

[gilliganscorner]

BTW,

You should have a "member bomb" and have a funky counter showing the number of people who have joined.

[Petar]

Tried to register but it said "Your account can not activated because your varification
codes are not correct, you can not login now."

Can you fix the spelling and my account? :)

Well thanks for joining Josh.

Some confirmation emails are getting bounced, so I'm periodically checking for inactive accounts and manually activating them.

I'm gonna have a new account configured for confirmation email, but in the meantime I'm just doing that and sending out explanation emails from an account that isn't getting bounced.

I'll also fix that spelling as soon as I can. (if only I knew how to program myself!)

Thanks again for joining.

[gilliganscorner]

List your business. Vote with your wallet.

Added by me, "Using sound money".

Bump because what Social Engineer is doing fucking matters. Don't be lame in supporting him..or her.

If you want to spend your efforts reforming the system from within, fine, I respect that. There is no reason why you cannot, in parallel, do this before you think you can educate 149 million sheep, dumbed down by "public edukashun" who have been brainwashed into thinking Ron Paul's message is for tinfoil hat wearing, kool-aid drinking moonbats.

[gilliganscorner]

Mods? Is this worth stickying? I think it is, but hey, what do I know?

Actually, on second thought, this is worth stickying. More than you know

[Sally08]

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/96379/

The Pinched Middle Class Is Ditching Target for Wal-Mart

By Marie Cocco, Washington Post Writers Group. Posted August 26, 2008.

Money is on the mind of voters as they see their paychecks shrink from inflation, their jobs threatened and their middle-class dreams diminished.

Excerpt:
But it turns out that consumers more pinched than I am are switching to Wal-Mart, so that discounter has been posting sales increases while Target is slumping.

Questions:
- Will consumers be willing/able to pay more to buy from a liberty business?
- What percentage of consumers factor in politics to their purchasing decisions?
- Won't the trading partners need to be very local to each other? Particularly if there is a SHTF crash?
- What if employers are replacing Americans with legal/cheap foreign labor or illegal labor?
- What if payments are being made under the table, effectively decreasing the exchange rates above the table?

Certainly, for businesses to have another advertising venue is of value, particularly if it is a "niche".

FYI, I mentioned a "barter network" to someone several days ago and he immediately replied he had already joined one on Craigslist-

[Petar]

- Will consumers be willing/able to pay more to buy from a liberty business?

Some consumers will want to spend more to buy from a liberty supporting business, but hopefully this network will help us with providing competitive deals, because that would be ideal for its growth.


- What percentage of consumers factor in politics to their purchasing decisions?

I can't tell you exactly how many consumers factor in politics in their political purchases, but I can tell you that 1.2 million people voted for Ron Paul, and I can also tell you that we are renown for our enthusiasm as well.

Also, if this turns out to be something that will provide either businesses or consumers with an economic advantage, then it will also attract people who will be interested just for that purpose, particularly in these time of extreme economic uncertainty.

These individuals will then become relatively easy to educate politically.


- Won't the trading partners need to be very local to each other?

It's hard to say. Does the average person make most of their purchases locally?

Probably.

Does the average person necessarily need to make most of their purchases locally?

Perhaps yes.

Do people also do business with each other from far away points?

Absolutely.

I just know that if the 1.2 million people who voted for Ron Paul all list their businesses on here, then we will have thousands and thousands of potential liberty supporting options for doing whatever kind of business that we need to do.


Particularly if there is a SHTF crash?

If TSHTF, then geographically close by business connections will definitely be an advantage.

And out of 1.2 million Ron Paul supporters, then thousands and thousands of businesses should provide a lot of very close by potential options for a lot of people, and it would also grow.

I definitely wanna add a barter system as soon as possible, particularly for an economic SHTF scenario.

I also wanna add a Craigslist style classifieds site, a complete auction site, and perhaps a social network as well.

[Razmear]

Just added my site: http://MagneticBreeze.com to your directory.
Thanks,
eb

[Petar]

Welcome aboard sir!

[Petar]

bump

[Petar]

bump

[Petar]

bump

[mkeller]

Pow!

[Petar]

bump

[Petar]

bump

[Josh_LA]

dont we already have ?

http://ronpaulyellowpages.com/

BTW, isn't it time we started a "libertarian lawyers" alliance like the ACLU?

Libertarians bitch all the time about how they hate this about the gov, how the gov is violating Constitutional law, how Fed Res is not real money, SO WHAT? They can't convince a lawyer to represent them for free, so the lawyers are just as corporate and mainstream as the rest of America, doing it for the money.

[Petar]

dont we already have ?

http://ronpaulyellowpages.com/

BTW, isn't it time we started a "libertarian lawyers" alliance like the ACLU?

Libertarians bitch all the time about how they hate this about the gov, how the gov is violating Constitutional law, how Fed Res is not real money, SO WHAT? They can't convince a lawyer to represent them for free, so the lawyers are just as corporate and mainstream as the rest of America, doing it for the money.

Yes, we have www.ronpaulyellowpages.com, but I personally feel that www.freemarketforliberty.com will be a lot more user friendly once complete.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I wanted to list but I didn't see a catagory for Entertainers. tones

[Petar]

I wanted to list but I didn't see a catagory for Entertainers. tones

The site was developed with the ability for users to add their own categories, but since launch, I have discovered a bug with that function, and that's one of the things that I'm gonna fix, whether I have to use my own money, or if I can get donations.

[Petar]

bump

[Josh_LA]

The site was developed with the ability for users to add their own categories, but since launch, I have discovered a bug with that function, and that's one of the things that I'm gonna fix, whether I have to use my own money, or if I can get donations.
Good luck with that.

And I hope you have built in anti-spam measures, and some agreement with your programmer that if it doesn't work to your expectations, they fix it until it does for no additional charge.