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View Full Version : The bourgeoisie define labor unions; the proletariat get blamed for their corruption




Uncle Emanuel Watkins
08-23-2008, 02:54 PM
I know that there has been talk of Marxism lately, beloved forum members, I guess in regards to how that particular political philosophy fits in with the Ron Paul revolution. For all the young Marxists out there, I have a question:

People tend to think that Unions were created as institutions of the proletariat when, because they own the means of production, the bourgeoisie stepped in to to appease the movement. It is the appeasement that establishes the Union, not the protests of the proletariat; yet, the proletariat get blamed for its corruption.

Please comment.

Truth Warrior
08-23-2008, 03:25 PM
I know that there has been talk of Marxism lately, beloved forum members, I guess in regards to how that particular political philosophy fits in with the Ron Paul revolution. For all the young Marxists out there, I have a question:

People tend to think that Unions were created as institutions of the proletariat when, because they own the means of production, the bourgeoisie stepped in to to appease the movement. It is the appeasement that establishes the Union, not the protests of the proletariat; yet, the proletariat get blamed for its corruption.

Please comment.

"Democracy is the road to socialism." -- Karl Marx :p

"Socialism in America will come through the ballot box." :rolleyes:
by: Gus Hall
[Arvo Gustav Halberg ] (1910-2000) leader of the Communist Party USA and its four-time U.S. presidential candidate

Source: in an interview with the Cleveland Plain-Dealer (1996)

:p :rolleyes:

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
08-23-2008, 05:00 PM
"Democracy is the road to socialism." -- Karl Marx :p

"Socialism in America will come through the ballot box." :rolleyes:
by: Gus Hall
[Arvo Gustav Halberg ] (1910-2000) leader of the Communist Party USA and its four-time U.S. presidential candidate

Source: in an interview with the Cleveland Plain-Dealer (1996)

:p :rolleyes:

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx

I ask for a young Marxist and I get Truth Warrior. You failed to address the question. The structure of the Union was not designed by the proletariet because they didn't own the means of production. The structure of the Union was derived from the U.S. government stepping in and appeasing the movement. Yet, people blame Union corruption on the proletariet.

Please try to comment again, young Groucho Marxist.

Truth Warrior
08-23-2008, 05:21 PM
I ask for a young Marxist and I get Truth Warrior. You failed to address the question. The structure of the Union was not designed by the proletariet because they didn't own the means of production. The structure of the Union was derived from the U.S. government stepping in and appeasing the movement. Yet, people blame Union corruption on the proletariet.

Please try to comment again, young Groucho Marxist.
Just responding to "please comment", and holding a place open for YOUR young Marxists. :p The question was not addressed to me, as you said.

"POLITICS is the OTHER opiate of the masses." -- Groucho Marx

(OK, I just made that one up, with apologies to both Karl and Groucho)

angelatc
08-23-2008, 05:27 PM
I ask for a young Marxist and I get Truth Warrior. You failed to address the question. The structure of the Union was not designed by the proletariet because they didn't own the means of production. The structure of the Union was derived from the U.S. government stepping in and appeasing the movement. Yet, people blame Union corruption on the proletariet.

Please try to comment again, young Groucho Marxist.

I blame union corruption on the same thing I blame all organized crime. Power corrupts.

amy31416
08-23-2008, 05:57 PM
I like the word "bourgeoisie." I say it a lot when I want to sound smart.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
08-24-2008, 01:40 AM
I like the word "bourgeoisie." I say it a lot when I want to sound smart.

I can't pronounce the word while I have to look it up to spell it.
Anyway, we had a union movement in this nation. The great aspect about the unions were how they won public land for people to utilize for peaceful assemblies. Or else, MoFos! This public property went from being at one time owned 100% by the king to being own by the people. Still, the structure of what became a union was determined by the government at that point when it stepped in to stimey the movement by appeasment and compromise. The union movement itself did not have the resources to determine what its structure would look like because it did not own the means of production. So, why do people blame the workers for union corruption?

Truth Warrior
08-24-2008, 06:10 AM
I can't pronounce the word while I have to look it up to spell it.
Anyway, we had a union movement in this nation. The great aspect about the unions were how they won public land for people to utilize for peaceful assemblies. Or else, MoFos! This public property went from being at one time owned 100% by the king to being own by the people. Still, the structure of what became a union was determined by the government at that point when it stepped in to stimey the movement by appeasment and compromise. The union movement itself did not have the resources to determine what its structure would look like because it did not own the means of production. So, why do people blame the workers for union corruption?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bourgeoisie

bourgeoisie [(boor-zhwah-zee)] AKA Middle class

For me, it's usually just, one of several, red flag signal "code words" of some adolescent minded overblown pretentious phony pseudo intellectual fake Marxist wannabe TWIT, just BEGGING to be deflated, knocked around some and taken down a few levels. Several here on the RPF, past and present, spring to mind. :)

And I'm often more than happy to oblige them, if I'm bored enough, needing another "fun fix" or perhaps think that they just may be worth the reality check correction efforts.

;)

amy31416
08-24-2008, 07:21 AM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bourgeoisie

bourgeoisie [(boor-zhwah-zee)] AKA Middle class

For me, it's usually just, one of several, red flag signal "code words" of some adolescent minded overblown pretentious phony pseudo intellectual fake Marxist wannabe TWIT, just BEGGING to be deflated, knocked around some and taken down a few levels. Several here on the RPF, past and present, spring to mind. :)

And I'm often more than happy to oblige them, if I'm bored enough, needing another "fun fix" or perhaps think that they just may be worth the reality check correction efforts.

;)

Damn, and I've been saying "burr-gee-oyy-see" fer years! What a maroon! Seriously though, it's a word relegated to complete sarcasm given it's inherent snootiness, in my highly-esteemed opinion <IMHEO>. :p

Well, have fun kids!

Truth Warrior
08-24-2008, 07:40 AM
Damn, and I've been saying "burr-gee-oyy-see" fer years! What a maroon! Seriously though, it's a word relegated to complete sarcasm given it's inherent snootiness, in my highly-esteemed opinion <IMHEO>. :p

Well, have fun kids! Wanna play? ;)

:D

amy31416
08-24-2008, 07:57 AM
Wanna play? ;)

:D

I have to ask my mommy first. :p

me: "MOMMY! Can I go play at the national dinner table?"

mom: "What the hell is that?"

me: "I dunno, but we're having catfish and peanut butter."

mom: "Haven't I told you to stay away from those Europeans?"

me: "Yes mom. *sigh*"

Truth Warrior
08-24-2008, 08:05 AM
I have to ask my mommy first. :p

me: "MOMMY! Can I go play at the national dinner table?"

mom: "What the hell is that?"

me: "I dunno, but we're having catfish and peanut butter."

mom: "Haven't I told you to stay away from those Europeans?"

me: "Yes mom. *sigh*" :cool: ;) :D < LMAO! >

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
08-24-2008, 09:06 PM
I have to ask my mommy first. :p

me: "MOMMY! Can I go play at the national dinner table?"

mom: "What the hell is that?"

me: "I dunno, but we're having catfish and peanut butter."

mom: "Haven't I told you to stay away from those Europeans?"

me: "Yes mom. *sigh*"

And the question goes unanswered. I think this is the problem with partisan politics. While we pretend to have the kinds of minds necessary to grapple with complexity, the best we can hope from our thinking is reactionary responses. We can't prevent the tragedy, the cataclysm or the catastrophe. The best we can do is react to it afterwards as if we are in charge. Die in a head-on collision? Fasten your safety belt. Run over and kill a whole family while intoxicated? Don't drink or drive.

Truth Warrior
08-25-2008, 06:35 AM
And the question goes unanswered. I think this is the problem with partisan politics. While we pretend to have the kinds of minds necessary to grapple with complexity, the best we can hope from our thinking is reactionary responses. We can't prevent the tragedy, the cataclysm or the catastrophe. The best we can do is react to it afterwards as if we are in charge. Die in a head-on collision? Fasten your safety belt. Run over and kill a whole family while intoxicated? Don't drink or drive.

Still waiting for your young Marxists? :D Hey, how about asking your question on the KMF? It might just improve your odds of getting SOME answers. ;)

Just a thought. < shrug >

"Complexity is the essence of the con and the hustle."

;)

Conza88
08-25-2008, 06:40 AM
I like the word "bourgeoisie." I say it a lot when I want to sound smart.

I hate the word "bourgeoisie." I never say it, since I don't want to sound dumb.


And the question goes unanswered.

The problem is you're looking for young socialists on a Ron Paul forum. Hahaha... :D

Seriously though; go ask Kade or mtmedlin. :p

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
08-25-2008, 08:05 AM
Still waiting for your young Marxists? :D Hey, how about asking your question on the KMF? It might just improve your odds of getting SOME answers. ;)

Just a thought. < shrug >

"Complexity is the essence of the con and the hustle."

;)

As an American sitting at the national dinner table, I appreciate the Marxist attempt to balance mind with heart. While America has grown fat and out of balance while the nation suffers from heart disease, Marxism lops off whole body parts to acheive its goal. Still, the question hasn't been addressed. Still.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
08-25-2008, 08:09 AM
I hate the word "bourgeoisie." I never say it, since I don't want to sound dumb.



The problem is you're looking for young socialists on a Ron Paul forum. Hahaha... :D

Seriously though; go ask Kade or mtmedlin. :p

I'm not looking for young Marxists. I'm looking for someone to answer my question still. Unfortunately, Marxist terminology has to be used at times when confronting the traditional legal precedence of tyranny. The Union movement was a movement until it was appeased by United States tyranny. The blame for Union corruption can only be placed on the shoulders of the government because the people did not have the resources to determine Union Structure. Such a compromise was established by those in charge of the means of production.

Truth Warrior
08-25-2008, 08:15 AM
As an American sitting at the national dinner table, I appreciate the Marxist attempt to balance mind with heart. While America has grown fat and out of balance while the nation suffers from heart disease, Marxism lops off whole body parts to acheive its goal. Still, the question hasn't been addressed. Still.

Hint: Does the acronym BSQ have any meaning for you, AT ALL? :rolleyes:

Kade
08-25-2008, 08:19 AM
I hate the word "bourgeoisie." I never say it, since I don't want to sound dumb.



The problem is you're looking for young socialists on a Ron Paul forum. Hahaha... :D

Seriously though; go ask Kade or mtmedlin. :p

Get over assclown. If I'm a socialist, wtf are you?

Conza88
08-25-2008, 08:19 AM
I'm not looking for young Marxists. I'm looking for someone to answer my question still. Unfortunately, Marxist terminology has to be used at times when confronting the traditional legal precedence of tyranny. The Union movement was a movement until it was appeased by United States tyranny. The blame for Union corruption can only be placed on the shoulders of the government because the people did not have the resources to determine Union Structure. Such a compromise was established by those in charge of the means of production.
:)

For all the young Marxists out there, I have a question:

People tend to think that Unions were created as institutions of the proletariat when, because they own the means of production, the bourgeoisie stepped in to to appease the movement. It is the appeasement that establishes the Union, not the protests of the proletariat; yet, the proletariat get blamed for its corruption..

I didn't see a question asked... That's probably why you're still waiting on an answer. :)

As far as the union movement goes... they shouldn't be blamed for contributing to inflation pressures (they come after the fact, asking for wage increases). They are fine if they are voluntary and there is competition from other union movements within industries.


Get over assclown. If I'm a socialist, wtf are you?

Hahaha! Aww Kade :( I was just messin wit j00. -> :D

To answer your question though; depending on the day, I'm an anarcho-capitalist, minarchist or libertarian. I guess that makes me a "minarcho-capliterarian." :cool:

Truth Warrior
08-25-2008, 08:29 AM
Get over assclown. If I'm a socialist, wtf are you? Maybe now, UEW can FINALLY get a young Marxist BSanswer to his BSQ. :D

Oops forgot, sorry. :o http://rexcurry.net/fascism=socialism.html

So I guess that bogus sig quote of yours, "The last liberal on RonPaulForums.com", should more truthfully be, " The last SOCIALIST on RonPaulForums.com " ;)

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
08-25-2008, 11:45 AM
:)


I didn't see a question asked... That's probably why you're still waiting on an answer. :)

As far as the union movement goes... they shouldn't be blamed for contributing to inflation pressures (they come after the fact, asking for wage increases). They are fine if they are voluntary and there is competition from other union movements within industries.



Hahaha! Aww Kade :( I was just messin wit j00. -> :D

To answer your question though; depending on the day, I'm an anarcho-capitalist, minarchist or libertarian. I guess that makes me a "minarcho-capliterarian." :cool:


I go by the philosophy that the solution is less important than the truth. When the truth is well established, then we will be free; or, the Truth will set you free. So, I'm not thinking of what might be done to do away with union corruption. I'm think about who is to blame for union corruption. Tyranny established the institution of what is a union. Unfortunately, that stymied, appeased, cohersed, and subverted the union movement. Now unions get blamed for corruption that they had no part in.

Kade
08-25-2008, 11:46 AM
I go by the philosophy that the solution is less important than the truth. When the truth is well established, then we will be free; or, the Truth will set you free. So, I'm not thinking of what might be done to do away with union corruption. I'm think about who is to blame for union corruption. Tyranny established the institution of what is a union. Unfortunately, that stymied, appeased, cohersed, and subverted the union movement. Now unions get blamed for corruption that they had no part in.

You are correct sir.

Truth Warrior
08-25-2008, 11:48 AM
You are correct sir.
http://rexcurry.net/fascism=socialism.html

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
08-25-2008, 12:34 PM
http://rexcurry.net/fascism=socialism.html

Wow. Was that a porn cite you posted?

Kade
08-25-2008, 12:43 PM
Wow. Was that a porn cite you posted?

Is he still trolling that link!?

LMFAO. He's been on my ignore list for a long time, and yet he still hasn't said anything of value.

Conza88
08-25-2008, 08:28 PM
I go by the philosophy that the solution is less important than the truth. When the truth is well established, then we will be free; or, the Truth will set you free. So, I'm not thinking of what might be done to do away with union corruption. I'm think about who is to blame for union corruption. Tyranny established the institution of what is a union. Unfortunately, that stymied, appeased, cohersed, and subverted the union movement. Now unions get blamed for corruption that they had no part in.

I go by the philosophy that to come up with an actual solution, you need to know the truth. :rolleyes: Who is to blame for union corruption? I'd say the state, here in Australia anyway. They've influenced it. Who is to blame for corruption in general... if you want to get philosophical that's the way to go, not confine it simply to unions. Tyranny certainly didn't establish the institution of unions, here anyway.

Truth Warrior
08-25-2008, 08:59 PM
Wow. Was that a porn cite you posted? I imagine that it is to you. ;) :D

Truth Warrior
08-25-2008, 09:00 PM
Is he still trolling that link!?

LMFAO. He's been on my ignore list for a long time, and yet he still hasn't said anything of value.http://rexcurry.net/fascism=socialism.html

Conza88
08-26-2008, 06:16 AM
“The right to unionize should be a basic right of any group. You should be able to organize. You should have no privileges, no special benefits legislated to benefit the unions, but you should never deny any working group to organize and negotiate for the best set of standards of working conditions.”

- Ron Paul, 2007 Republican debate in Dearborn, Michigan Oct 9, 2007

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
08-26-2008, 08:41 AM
“The right to unionize should be a basic right of any group. You should be able to organize. You should have no privileges, no special benefits legislated to benefit the unions, but you should never deny any working group to organize and negotiate for the best set of standards of working conditions.”

- Ron Paul, 2007 Republican debate in Dearborn, Michigan Oct 9, 2007

The Union movement was actually that point where the people took ownership of public property. The sidewalk is my property as a vendor of union goods.
The act of the "business" of survival was once deemed illegal under ruling monarchies because the king owned every inch of land. In other words, there was no place for vending union goods. The accepted traditional businesses of the day were to either work for the monarchy, if one were the first born, and working for the Church, if one were the second born. The rest of the offspring went about the "illegal" business of survival. Such activities were deemed illegal because they took place on land 100% owned by the king.
Now, fast forward to the legal businesses of today. They are treating the working people with the same kind of contempt that the king and the Church treated businesses in the past.
By stepping in to negotiate, the U.S. government established the union movement as an institution. This usurped the union movement.
Winning public property was the most important acheivment of the unions and this is the most important reason we need a constant union movement. Stomp your feet and they won't be stomping your toes.
Hegel said that people need to own property to be free. That ushered in Marxism which ultimately went too far. By unions winning public property for the people, they helped the people in the United States preserve their freedom.

Conza88
08-26-2008, 09:09 AM
So... you're disagreeing with Ron Paul? :confused:

Have you read, Man Economy and State by Murry Rothbard (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=YGi5EbO32hgC&pg=PA715&lpg=PA715&dq=%2Bunions+%2Brothbard&source=web&ots=IqmxUdxuUL&sig=_thMv3Uoxk08JYj5KwbNmTct01U&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA725,M1)?

It has some stuff on unions in there.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
08-27-2008, 03:39 AM
So... you're disagreeing with Ron Paul? :confused:

Have you read, Man Economy and State by Murry Rothbard (http://books.google.com.au/books?id=YGi5EbO32hgC&pg=PA715&lpg=PA715&dq=%2Bunions+%2Brothbard&source=web&ots=IqmxUdxuUL&sig=_thMv3Uoxk08JYj5KwbNmTct01U&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA725,M1)?

It has some stuff on unions in there.

There is a difference between the union movement and the union as an institution. The union movement continually fights to give THE PEOPLE ownership of public property.
As mention before, the king at one time owned all property. He or she established an aristocracy of Dukes, Marquess', Earls, Viscounts, and Barons. Together this Aristocracy kept the public property in the hands of the king and as a result particular members of the Aristocracy received entitlements. While it would seem the these powerful members of the monarchy owned their land, the entitlement could be stripped by the king -- the president, supreme court, congress, judge, jury and executioner all rolled up into one.
As it stands today, people on public property can sell things like girlscout cookies, newspapers and labor unions. If a company allows its employees to sell girlscout cookies on company property, then one has the right to sell unionization on the property. If the company has a billboard for solicitions, then it has to allow labor unions to be solicited on company property. Coke machines? Union solicitation. What is wrong with this? We no longer have a strong labor union movement in this nation. Instead, we have a corrupt union institution that was established by the Federal Government when it stepped in to compromise, usurp and stymie the union movement.

Conza88
08-27-2008, 03:55 AM
Yeah don't disagree with any of that, now it's been spelt out. :)

Truth Warrior
08-28-2008, 01:26 AM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/public%20property :p :rolleyes:

sophocles07
08-28-2008, 01:34 AM
I ask for a young Marxist and I get Truth Warrior. You failed to address the question. The structure of the Union was not designed by the proletariet because they didn't own the means of production. The structure of the Union was derived from the U.S. government stepping in and appeasing the movement. Yet, people blame Union corruption on the proletariet.

I'm not a Marxist, but I do know that at least some Marxists consider the Union as a ploy by the capitalist state.

Conza88
08-28-2008, 01:47 AM
Can I get some examples / evidence of unions trying to get public property back to the people... :confused:

Truth Warrior
08-28-2008, 01:57 AM
Can I get some examples / evidence of unions trying to get public property back to the people... :confused:
Ya gotta be careful with UEW, he's sneaky, tricky and BSy. ;)

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
08-28-2008, 12:24 PM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/public%20property :p :rolleyes:

Someone needs to take the biggest dictionary they can find and hit you over the head with it. If you don't understand that a definition isn't a magical thing that can be dug up, then you need to go back to take a basic philosophy class.

Truth Warrior
08-28-2008, 12:34 PM
Someone needs to take the biggest dictionary they can find and hit you over the head with it. If you don't understand that a definition isn't a magical thing that can be dug up, then you need to go back to take a basic philosophy class. And you clearly don't understand that it is. ;)

Filter # 1: Clear out the bullshit. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bullshit

:D

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
08-28-2008, 12:36 PM
Can I get some examples / evidence of unions trying to get public property back to the people... :confused:

Public property is where the Unions vend their product. Company property was for company business. Public property right outside the company became the battle ground between the nosey companies trying to prevent THE PEOPLE from organizing to enact economic policies in regards to their own best interests. Unions, the people, won that battle. So, one can peacefully assemble to sell Union goods just as people can sell girlscout cookies on the sidewalk or companies can place news racks on a sidewalk as long as they don't prohibit flow of traffic.
This was a great victory for THE PEOPLE versus THE KING in regards to who owns public property.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
08-28-2008, 12:44 PM
And you clearly don't understand that it is. ;)

Filter # 1: Clear out the bullshit. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bullshit

:D

A dictionary is something that has to be formulated. Socrates invented that formulation yet he did not write and probably didn't read. One doesn't need a dictionary to learn definitions. Oops! How is this possible? How was Socrates developing definition without owning a dictionary? Oops. Please, try thinking for a change rather than posting poison.

Truth Warrior
08-28-2008, 12:47 PM
A dictionary is something that has to be formulated. Socrates invented that formulation yet he did not write and probably didn't read. One doesn't need a dictionary to learn definitions. Oops! How is this possible? How was Socrates developing definition without owning a dictionary? Oops. Please, try thinking for a change rather than posting poison. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Socrates

Screw you! I'll post what I damned well please. :p :rolleyes:

"A problem well defined is half solved."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/dictionary

http://www.reference.com/search?q=dictionary

"When words lose their meaning, people will lose their liberty." -- Confucius

Conza88
08-28-2008, 05:31 PM
Public property is where the Unions vend their product. Company property was for company business. Public property right outside the company became the battle ground between the nosey companies trying to prevent THE PEOPLE from organizing to enact economic policies in regards to their own best interests. Unions, the people, won that battle. So, one can peacefully assemble to sell Union goods just as people can sell girlscout cookies on the sidewalk or companies can place news racks on a sidewalk as long as they don't prohibit flow of traffic.
This was a great victory for THE PEOPLE versus THE KING in regards to who owns public property.

Who owns public property? The public. Who represents them - the politicians. i.e The state. They make the laws, not the people.

Oh WOOOp de DOOOO footpaths:rolleyes: Unions often want rises to the minimum wage. Anyway; can I get a more EVIDENCE based example / links... :confused: you know; I was hoping for historical accounts etc. :rolleyes: And wth you talking about the King? It ain't a monarchy.

JosephTheLibertarian
08-28-2008, 06:19 PM
one word: python

revolutionman
08-29-2008, 06:20 AM
Every system where there is a little power, and a little money also has a little corruption. That doesn't make it right, but it does make it a fact of life. We should take every opportunity to route corruption wherever we find it, but its asinine to avoid a system just because it may or may not some day be subject to some degree of corruption. Its up to individuals to be vigilant, skeptical, and honest in order to prevent and fight corruption wherever it grows.

The Labor Union like just about everything else in American society has been twisted and perverted by excessive government intervention. When i speak of Unionization, I don't mean these labor unions that go way too far and abuse their clout by subjecting corporations, and even small business owners, to ridiculous and irrational rules and regulations.

When i speak of unionization I'm talking about the essential role of the union, ensuring work place safety, and negotiating the value of labor. Also, I don't think the Government should have to recognise a union. if my four coworkers and I can reach a consensus on what we believe is fair and enter into negotiations with our employer to reach those ends, that should be enough. There doesn't even have to be a permanent organization set in place.

Truth Warrior
08-29-2008, 06:27 AM
Every system where there is a little power, and a little money also has a little corruption. That doesn't make it right, but it does make it a fact of life. We should take every opportunity to route corruption wherever we find it, but its asinine to avoid a system just because it may or may not some day be subject to some degree of corruption. Its up to individuals to be vigilant, skeptical, and honest in order to prevent and fight corruption wherever it grows.

The Labor Union like just about everything else in American society has been twisted and perverted by excessive government intervention. When i speak of Unionization, I don't mean these labor unions that go way too far and abuse their clout by subjecting corporations, and even small business owners, to ridiculous and irrational rules and regulations.

When i speak of unionization I'm talking about the essential role of the union, ensuring work place safety, and negotiating the value of labor. Also, I don't think the Government should have to recognise a union. if my four coworkers and I can reach a consensus on what we believe is fair and enter into negotiations with our employer to reach those ends, that should be enough. There doesn't even have to be a permanent organization set in place.

Any "system" dependent on human reliability is inherently unreliable. ;)

Ozwest
08-29-2008, 06:48 AM
Any "system" dependent on human reliability is inherently unreliable. ;)

Truth Warrior,

Slogans only get you so far.

I ran a business for 15 years.

My employees we're my # 1 asset.

Put on a blue singlet and have a go.

Otherwise put up or shut up.

Hypocrite.

Truth Warrior
08-29-2008, 06:51 AM
Truth Warrior,

Slogans only get you so far.

I ran a business for 15 years.

My employees we're my # 1 asset.

Put on a blue singlet and have a go.

Otherwise put up or shut up.

Hypocrite.

I am NOT the thread topic EITHER.

Get a fricken' clue!!!!! :p :rolleyes:

Ozwest
08-29-2008, 06:54 AM
I am NOT the thread topic.

Get a fricken' clue!!!!! :p :rolleyes:

Wow.

Get a grip.

I would appreciate an answer to my thread.

Truth Warrior
08-29-2008, 06:58 AM
wow.

Get a grip.

I would appreciate an answer to my thread. Off Topic!!!!!

Ozwest
08-29-2008, 07:04 AM
[quote=Truth Warrior;1635925]Off Topic!!!!![/quotI

I must apoligise precious, but I believe in Unions and wages which support families.

My employees were my business.

Without them. I would have been rat shit.

Anti Federalist
08-29-2008, 07:04 AM
I know that there has been talk of Marxism lately, beloved forum members, I guess in regards to how that particular political philosophy fits in with the Ron Paul revolution. For all the young Marxists out there, I have a question:

People tend to think that Unions were created as institutions of the proletariat when, because they own the means of production, the bourgeoisie stepped in to to appease the movement. It is the appeasement that establishes the Union, not the protests of the proletariat; yet, the proletariat get blamed for its corruption.

Please comment.

How very European of you to ask.

Marxism, like all the other "isms", fails because it ignores the primacy of the individual.

Arguing the finer points, is not unlike arguing about what type of wax to use to glue your feather wings together to fly to the moon.

Truth Warrior
08-29-2008, 07:10 AM
[quote=Truth Warrior;1635925]Off Topic!!!!![/quotI

I must apoligise precious, but I believe in Unions and wages which support families.

My employees were my business.

Without them. I would have been rat shit.

Having unions has absolutely NOTHING essential to do with having employees.<IMHO>

Ozwest
08-29-2008, 07:11 AM
Off Topic!!!!!

You don't understand small business.

Most of us started from the bottom.

I respect my fellow workers.

Truth Warrior
08-29-2008, 07:13 AM
You don't understand small business.

Most of us started from the bottom.

I respect my fellow workers. Off Topic!!!!!

Ozwest
08-29-2008, 07:15 AM
This is not the Model T factory.

Skilled workers are to be appreciated, and treated with respect.

Ozwest
08-29-2008, 07:26 AM
Why the fuck do I buy tools I use everyday from America, and one-off tools from China?

For the same reason you guys do.

U,S. steel and craftmanship rock!

Ozwest
08-29-2008, 07:29 AM
I believe in Cummins, not Kubota.

Cummins diesel may me noisier, but they are torquey as shit.

Ozwest
08-29-2008, 07:35 AM
Parts and longevity of U.S. made heavy equipment beats the Europeans and the Japanese 9 out of 10 times.

The honda 5 horsepower motor being the exception. :D

Conza88
08-29-2008, 08:27 AM
Truthwarrior wins................ :D

Truth Warrior
08-29-2008, 08:48 AM
Truthwarrior wins................ :D

Truth wins. ;)

:)

Ozwest
08-29-2008, 08:55 AM
Who is big on theory, and a part of the useless prick brigade?

Truth Warrior
08-29-2008, 09:05 AM
Who is big on theory, and a part of the useless prick brigade? Ozwest.

Ozwest
08-29-2008, 09:12 AM
Ozwest.

Haha, you win again .

When you actually have employees and a real business, and work 80 hours a week, call my accountant, and clear it with my lawyer.

Truth Warrior
08-29-2008, 09:15 AM
Haha, you win again .

When you actually have employees and a real business, and work 80 hours a week, call my accountant, and clear it with my lawyer. Have done and been both for over forty years. :rolleyes:

Ozwest
08-29-2008, 09:19 AM
[quote=Truth Warrior;1636215]Have done and been both for over forty years. :rolleyes:[/quot

Why didn't you say so?

Peace.

Forty years beats me hands down.

Hope you made some money.

Truth Warrior
08-29-2008, 09:24 AM
[quote=Truth Warrior;1636215]Have done and been both for over forty years. :rolleyes:[/quot

Why didn't you say so?

Peace.

Forty years beats me hands down.

Hope you made some money. OFF TOPIC!!!!!

Ozwest
08-29-2008, 09:32 AM
[quote=Ozwest;1636227] OFF TOPIC!!!!!


Fuck you.

Truth Warrior
08-29-2008, 09:35 AM
[quote=Truth Warrior;1636242]


Fuck you.OFF TOPIC!!!!!

Ozwest
08-29-2008, 09:42 AM
[quote=Ozwest;1636276]OFF TOPIC!!!!!


That fuck you...

Stands as is.

Truth Warrior
08-29-2008, 09:43 AM
[quote=Truth Warrior;1636292]


That fuck you...

Stands as is.
OFF TOPIC!!!!!

Ozwest
08-29-2008, 09:49 AM
As Ron Paul says Truth Warrior...

"Private charities are superior to government."

Consider yourself fortunate.

Truth Warrior
08-29-2008, 09:56 AM
as ron paul says truth warrior...

"private charities are superior to government."

consider yourself fortunate.
off topic!!!!!

Ozwest
08-29-2008, 09:58 AM
Another imaginative reply Truth Warrior.

Have you considered drugs?

Truth Warrior
08-29-2008, 10:00 AM
another imaginative reply truth warrior.

Have you considered drugs?
off topic!!!!!

Ozwest
08-29-2008, 10:08 AM
Let's learn more about who we are now, and respect each other for our similitarities and differences.

Truth Warrior
08-29-2008, 10:12 AM
let's learn more about who we are now, and respect each other for our similitarities and differences.
off topic!!!!!

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
08-29-2008, 10:37 AM
How very European of you to ask.

Marxism, like all the other "isms", fails because it ignores the primacy of the individual.

Arguing the finer points, is not unlike arguing about what type of wax to use to glue your feather wings together to fly to the moon.

The purpose of the thread is to differentiate between what is the union movement and what is the union institution. The Union movement is a never ending quest to keep public property away from the King and in the hands of THE PEOPLE. The union institution was created when the U.S. Government stepped in to usurp, compromise and stymie the union movement. The union institution has since become corrupt. The way to strengthen the union movement is to reestablish its goal of winning public property away from the King so as to put it into the hands of THE PEOPLE.

Conza88
08-29-2008, 08:04 PM
Truthwarrior wins................ :D

Ok, qualifier. I was drunk when I wrote this. Hahah :p

Truth Warrior
08-30-2008, 03:19 AM
The Philosophical Basis of the Conflict Between Liberty and Statism


http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller8.html