What if we held the entire government

[GunnyFreedom]

And could choose national directions?

some thoughts:

Teach individual personal sovereignty at all levels of education. "You are a sovereign being, and past the age of consent you will only /ever/ come under the authority of another human, by your own free will choice."

Teach strict construction and republican philosophy. Free marketplace of ideas.

Teach recognition on the historic ways in which governments around the world have abused their people, and how to recognize the signs of it. College and Post Grad.

Teach the Bill of Rights, expect all students to memorize it in order to graduate from High School.

Open up Civil Air Patrol -like official auxiliaries for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Coast Guard. Have cadet and senior members.

beef up community watches into precinct militia.

Appoint a Militia Liaison to every state, and CG the staff with a seat on the Joint Chiefs of Staff board. Alternate Army and Marine Militia Chiefs, and have state liaisons as field grade; Major-Colonel.

Fundamentally stress the importance of the militia for keeping the Gov't in check.

[amy31416]

I like it Gunny, though I think we could teach government abuse in high school and beyond.

Education on the government should be a top priority of educators and the concepts you've spelled out ensure our freedom to pursue or not pursue all other disciplines.

[Kade]

And could choose national directions?

some thoughts:

Teach individual personal sovereignty at all levels of education. "You are a sovereign being, and past the age of consent you will only /ever/ come under the authority of another human, by your own free will choice."

Teach strict construction and republican philosophy. Free marketplace of ideas.

Teach recognition on the historic ways in which governments around the world have abused their people, and how to recognize the signs of it. College and Post Grad.

Teach the Bill of Rights, expect all students to memorize it in order to graduate from High School.

Open up Civil Air Patrol -like official auxiliaries for the Army, Navy, Marines, and Coast Guard. Have cadet and senior members.

beef up community watches into precinct militia.

Appoint a Militia Liaison to every state, and CG the staff with a seat on the Joint Chiefs of Staff board. Alternate Army and Marine Militia Chiefs, and have state liaisons as field grade; Major-Colonel.

Fundamentally stress the importance of the militia for keeping the Gov't in check.

You see nothing wrong with forcing your own views on others... this is the inherent flaw of libertarianism, as outlined by Ayn Rand... if you were to hold the entire government, you would contradict most of your principles.

For instance, brainwashing kids towards "strict construction and republican philosophy" does not sit well with me.

I had a public education, and I had teachers on both sides of the aisle, although while in High School in Georgia, (Cobb County) most were very "Republican"....

This just makes me uncomfortable.

[noxagol]

If I held the government, it wouldn't exist for very long because I would be too busy smashing it with a hammer. Government is the root of all evil. Taking both libertarianism and Jefferson's idea that "The government which governs least, governs best" to their logical conclusion brings us to the abolishment of the state all together and being ruled only by the absolute free market.

[acptulsa]

I suspect that if we taught how the Constitution works, any kids with brains could figure out why it (when allowed to do so) works so well. I'm not for teaching kids what to think. I'm for teaching them how to think.

[user]

Doesn't anybody see the contradiction in using the government to "teach individual personal sovereignty at all levels of education"?

[Kotin]

I suspect that if we taught how the Constitution works, any kids with brains could figure out why it (when allowed to do so) works so well. I'm not for teaching kids what to think. I'm for teaching them how to think.

agreed.

I love the militia stuff!!

[user]

This is scary.

[acptulsa]

Doesn't anybody see the contradiction in using the government to "teach individual personal sovereignty at all levels of education"?

Yes. Now a question for you. Do you really think we can or should completely eliminate public schools overnight?

Meanwhile, one would have to teach them something. Personal sovereignty and personal responsibility seems like a responsible thing to teach U.S. kids.

[user]

Yes. Now a question for you. Do you really think we can or should completely eliminate public schools overnight?

Meanwhile, one would have to teach them something. Personal sovereignty and personal responsibility seems like a responsible thing to teach U.S. kids.
Yes, probably. Even if it took longer, why not spend time working on that transition instead of on having the government revise the curriculum yet again?

[acptulsa]

Yes, probably. Even if it took longer, why not spend time working on that transition instead of on having the government revise the curriculum yet again?

Depends on how long the transition would take. If it takes a generation, that's too many more people getting gypped.

[user]

Depends on how long the transition would take. If it takes a generation, that's too many more people getting gypped.
If it looks like it's going to take that long, something's gone wrong.

[Pericles]

From Jefferson's second inaugural address.

The remaining revenue on the consumption of foreign articles is paid chiefly by those who can afford to add foreign luxuries to domestic comforts, being collected on our seaboard and frontiers only, and incorporated with the transactions of our mercantile citizens, it may be the pleasure and the pride of an American to ask, What farmer, what mechanic, what laborer ever sees a taxgatherer of the United States? These contributions enable us to support the current expenses of the Government, to fulfill contracts with foreign nations, to extinguish the native right of soil within our limits, to extend those limits, and to apply such a surplus to our public debts as places at a short day their final redemption, and that redemption once effected the revenue thereby liberated may, by a just repartition of it among the States and a corresponding amendment of the Constitution, be applied in time of peace to rivers, canals, roads, arts, manufactures, education, and other great objects within each State. In time of war, if injustice by ourselves or others must sometimes produce war, increased as the same revenue will be by increased population and consumption, and aided by other resources reserved for that crisis, it may meet within the year all the expenses of the year without encroaching on the rights of future generations by burthening them with the debts of the past. War will then be but a suspension of useful works, and a return to a state of peace, a return to the progress of improvement.

[IPSecure]

I wonder if we could take back Washington DC by using Eminent Domain.

All we need to do is to show how the government is bankrupt.

I propose replacing it with a lemonade stand, at least it would not be in the red...

[tmosley]

I wonder if we could take back Washington DC by using Eminent Domain.

All we need to do is to show how the government is bankrupt.

I propose replacing it with a lemonade stand, at least it would not be in the red...

It's a good idea. Just about any other structure would certainly provide more tax revenues.

[bg1654]

Could you not make a school like this right now by making a private school? That would be a nice group effort by liberty minded individuals and could make a decent impact.

[JRegs85]

I am a believer that if a bunch of liberty-minded individuals moved to Wyoming, these changes could seriously move forward.

The state is so sparsely populated that even 30,000 or 40,000 would have a serious impact on state and local politics. And I have to assume that there are at least several hundred thousand people in the US with similar views to ours.

[GunnyFreedom]

You see nothing wrong with forcing your own views on others... this is the inherent flaw of libertarianism, as outlined by Ayn Rand... if you were to hold the entire government, you would contradict most of your principles.

I am not a Libertarian, I am a Constitutionalist. Like Ron Paul.

Teaching people in America about the Constitution is not "forcing your views on others" and teaching people who are citizens of the Republic of the United States of America about what it means to be a Republic, as opposed to a Democracy or an Oligarchy, or whatever, is not "forcing your views on others" either.


For instance, brainwashing kids towards "strict construction and republican philosophy" does not sit well with me.

That's fine, but just out of curiosity wouldn't you feel more comfortable then, in a country without a Constitution and which is not a Republic?


I had a public education, and I had teachers on both sides of the aisle, although while in High School in Georgia, (Cobb County) most were very "Republican"....

For all your bitching over the last year, you sure are the FIRST one to conflate a political party with a political philosophy. Wasn't that the very thing you've been complaining about, and now you are doing it, right here.


This just makes me uncomfortable.

If you can do it now, that means others can too, right? So you wouldn't be offended anymore if we started, say, talking about how John Edwards and Hillary Clinton are whack-job liberals?

OH, no, apparently it's OK when you do it... :rolleyes:

[GunnyFreedom]

I suspect that if we taught how the Constitution works, any kids with brains could figure out why it (when allowed to do so) works so well. I'm not for teaching kids what to think. I'm for teaching them how to think.

+1

[GunnyFreedom]

Doesn't anybody see the contradiction in using the government to "teach individual personal sovereignty at all levels of education"?

Unfortunately, the concept of public education is now so deeply ingrained into the conscience of the nation that they will be blind to alternatives. Not to mention the distinction between Fed DOE and State public education.

Also, I honestly believe that a nation has the responsibility to pass on to it's citizens why the nation exists in the first place, and the fundamental principles of the national formation.

In a perfect world, it would be done by way of voluntary materials provided to private and charter schools. But because Public Education is so deeply engrained, even if we held all of governement, the people themselves are not ready to throw that albatross off from around our neck.

So we create a tradition of being "not sheep" nationwide, so that hopefully if we ever get into this kind of thing again, then they won't be sheep, and they won't be caught sleeping.

But hey, it's only our grandkids and great grandkids. Who really cares about them anyway, right?

[user]

Unfortunately, the concept of public education is now so deeply ingrained into the conscience of the nation that they will be blind to alternatives. Not to mention the distinction between Fed DOE and State public education.

Also, I honestly believe that a nation has the responsibility to pass on to it's citizens why the nation exists in the first place, and the fundamental principles of the national formation.

In a perfect world, it would be done by way of voluntary materials provided to private and charter schools. But because Public Education is so deeply engrained, even if we held all of governement, the people themselves are not ready to throw that albatross off from around our neck.

So we create a tradition of being "not sheep" nationwide, so that hopefully if we ever get into this kind of thing again, then they won't be sheep, and they won't be caught sleeping.

But hey, it's only our grandkids and great grandkids. Who really cares about them anyway, right?
I agree that the concept of government education is now deeply ingrained into the conscience of the nation. But so are a lot of other socialist and fascist concepts. Why are you giving up on this one, when I'm pretty sure you wouldn't give up on most of the others?

[Kade]

OH, no, apparently it's OK when you do it... :rolleyes:

What are you talking about?

Go ahead, force kids to march in line.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1a/German_Troops_In_Warsaw.jpg/260px-German_Troops_In_Warsaw.jpg

[amy31416]

I agree that the concept of government education is now deeply ingrained into the conscience of the nation. But so are a lot of other socialist and fascist concepts. Why are you giving up on this one, when I'm pretty sure you wouldn't give up on most of the others?

It's called picking and choosing your battles. Despite what you may see in kung-fu movies, you can't kick everyone's ass all at once.

Plus, the elimination of the Department of Education is one of the toughest selling points I've had to deal with. I can't think of a single welfare program that, once implemented, we were able to do away with. I could be wrong though.

[heavenlyboy34]

Yes. Now a question for you. Do you really think we can or should completely eliminate public schools overnight?

Meanwhile, one would have to teach them something. Personal sovereignty and personal responsibility seems like a responsible thing to teach U.S. kids.

I wouldn't mind eliminating public schools overnight. It has happened on small scales in disaster-prone areas, and their world didn't come to an end. Besides, if public schools were forced out of existence (and free market forces were allowed to prevail), these problems would "solve themselves" by people who demand the service-and probably in a better reincarnation. :D

[GunnyFreedom]

I agree that the concept of government education is now deeply ingrained into the conscience of the nation. But so are a lot of other socialist and fascist concepts. Why are you giving up on this one, when I'm pretty sure you wouldn't give up on most of the others?

I don't mean I'd give up on it, rather, put it off until we can do it without the people at large freaking completely out. Even if we held every solitarty office in the land, we have to be careful about moving faster than the people will allow us, otherwise WE'LL get voted out, and then who knows what we'll end up with.

[GunnyFreedom]

It's called picking and choosing your battles. Despite what you may see in kung-fu movies, you can't kick everyone's ass all at once.

Plus, the elimination of the Department of Education is one of the toughest selling points I've had to deal with. I can't think of a single welfare program that, once implemented, we were able to do away with. I could be wrong though.

This comes from the perspective of ACTUALLY canvassing homes, yes. ;)

[GunnyFreedom]

What are you talking about?

of course you don't know. :rolleyes:


Go ahead, force kids to march in line.

Go on with your bad MSM self. :D


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1a/German_Troops_In_Warsaw.jpg/260px-German_Troops_In_Warsaw.jpg

[Kalifornia]

There is a certain inherent collectivism in allowing public schools to remain at all. If education is important enough to socialize, and police, and fire services, and water, and utilities, why stop there? Where is the firebreak on your slippery slope? Medicine? transportation?

I guess my point is, that the constitution doesnt empower the federal government to get involved in education at all, which is why RP, the great Goldwater and RR all advocated killing it.

I do think that it is high time for a competing private sector school system to implement training in our historic principals of individualism and liberty.

As for the militia... time to return those to the states. The nationalizing of the NGs is the worst thing ever.

[Raditude]

I like the idea of setting up Militias in place of neighborhood watches.

I think the sovereignty should be for everyone. No age of consent, you are only under control of your parents. The government has no say in how we parent our kids. No laws enacted against kids, like curfew or truancy.

I push for more of an Anarchist state, but I don't think we could implement that on a national level without some sort of hostility ensuing from a person or group. An Anarchist state would probably work if it was a family on an island.

[Kalifornia]

. No laws enacted against kids, like curfew or truancy.



Im fine with that, so long as I get to deal with trespassers, theives or burglars without regard to their age as well. The point of curfew laws is to keep kids out of neighboring property.

[Truth Warrior]

What if we held the entire government, underwater until it stopped struggling? :D

[Raditude]

Im fine with that, so long as I get to deal with trespassers, theives or burglars without regard to their age as well. The point of curfew laws is to keep kids out of neighboring property.

Deal with them in regard to intent to be there. In other words, don't shoot a kid who's only playing hide and seek in your yard. Also try to measure their competence level before acting. If a kid is stealing your bread, it's probably because he's hungry and don't know better.