Why aren't we all members of the Free State Project?

[mport1]

If only a small portion of Ron Paul supporters signed up we could reach the project's goal. Wouldn't you want to move if 20,000 other liberty activists were going to be there? Sadly it is looking like the federal government is beyond repair and I think concentrating our efforts in one state would have a much higher chance of success.


The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property. The success of the Project would likely entail reductions in taxation and regulation, reforms at all levels of government, to expand individual rights and free markets, and a restoration of constitutional federalism, demonstrating the benefits of liberty to the rest of the nation and the world.http://www.freestateproject.org



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI9ZjjEtH4g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQesSomK5l4

Other FSP oriented links:
http://www.freetalklive.com
http://www.nhliberty.org/
http://freekeene.com/
http://freeconcord.org/
http://nhfree.com/
http://ridleyreport.com/

[slothman]

I'm not because I can't move for many reasons.
I am registered at their forum though.

[haaaylee]

i'm going with the cost of moving being an issue........... maybe if we could all have guaranteed jobs? find me one and i'll move.

[constitutional]

Ha, after the NH primary... I have my doubts about NH ever being "free" again.

[edit] I take that statement back. Lets keep on fighting folks. Lets not lose hope...

[Sematary]

Not everyone, including myself, can just pack up and leave. However, in a few years, when the real estate market turns back around, perhaps I can sell what I have and move.

[LibertiORDeth]

ha, after the nh primary... I have my doubts about nh ever being "free" again.

+1776

[Kalifornia]

Because I dont want to live in New Hampshire. I dont cross the mississippi.

[yongrel]

Frankly, because I hate New England.

[Jeremy]

Frankly, because I hate New England.

Um.... you live in New England already. :eek:

[yongrel]

Um.... you live in New England already. :eek:

Only in the summer. DC for me.

[Brian Defferding]

I would love to join, but I'm a born and bred cheesehead through and through. Plus, I don't want to be far from my family. I'll be rooting for the Free State Project, but it will be from the bleachers.

[BuddyRey]

I'm strongly...and I mean strongly considering the move. The only thing holding me here is my family and their reverence for the deep roots we have here. Plus, I'll admit I'm sort of dreading the transition to sub-zero winters!!! :::insert chattering teeth emoticon here::::

[muh_roads]

Ha, after the NH primary... I have my doubts about NH ever being "free" again.

Anti-War Republican vote going to McCain FTL. Live Free or Die (100 years in Iraq)

"awww, but McCain came to my townhall meeting and rubbed my pee pee...even though he's a warhawk, I still gotta vote for him."

[mport1]

NH and no other state is currently "free." The point is to get enough liberty lovers there to make it free.

Also, remember that you don't have to move now for it, but wouldn't it be worth any inconveniences to make the move when the 20,000 goal is reached? Even after that you have a 5 year window to straighten everything out and find a job. I think a little sacrifice is worth our freedom, we have already given so much of our time and money to the RP cause.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

There is no way I would move to New Hampshire. Nice state, but I prefer being able to kayak in January without a wetsuit.

[Zack]

I've always had a link to their website in my signature because I support it very much, but I'm not a pledged member, since I couldn't ever afford to make that happen. I'll load up everything I own in a uhaul and start driving within 48 hours if somebody out there wants to give me a job and a paycheck advance while I'm still "in between jobs" here in Cali! :-O

[votefreedomfirst]

I plan on moving within a year or so, possibly to Grafton, NH as part of the Free Town Project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Town_Project), although that might not be possible due to it being in the middle of nowhere (and the accompanying lack of employment opportunities).

[ShowMeLiberty]

I would love to join, but I'm a born and bred cheesehead through and through. Plus, I don't want to be far from my family. I'll be rooting for the Free State Project, but it will be from the bleachers.

Heh. Having been born and raised in Wisconsin, I've had enough of long, sub-zero winters and all that snow. :) New Hampshire would only be moreso.

Places like Wisconsin and New England are beautiful vacation destinations, but not places I personally want to live. Besides, freedom shouldn't mean everyone who wants it has to relocate to some tiny, out-of-the-way place. Sounds too much like a "free speech zone" to me. Let's keep trying to make every state a truly free state again.

[Brian Defferding]

I plan on moving within a year or so, possibly to Grafton, NH as part of the Free Town Project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Town_Project), although that might not be possible due to it being in the middle of nowhere (and the accompanying lack of employment opportunities).

I really like that idea. That's something I could participate in my state.

[Brian Defferding]

Heh. Having been born and raised in Wisconsin, I've had enough of long, sub-zero winters and all that snow. :) New Hampshire would only be moreso.

Places like Wisconsin and New England are beautiful vacation destinations, but not places I personally want to live. Besides, freedom shouldn't mean everyone who wants it has to relocate to some tiny, out-of-the-way place. Sounds too much like a "free speech zone" to me. Let's keep trying to make every state a truly free state again.

I know what you mean about the winters, I usually like the cold, but driving in it just puts me on edge all the time. My commute last winter was about 25 miles, virtually every day I was risking my ass to get to work and back; I moved much closer now thank goodness.

[ShowMeLiberty]

I know what you mean about the winters, I usually like the cold, but driving in it just puts me on edge all the time. My commute last winter was about 25 miles, virtually every day I was risking my ass to get to work and back; I moved much closer now thank goodness.

:) I remember way too many winter mornings wondering if the car would start so I could get to work that day.

WhrrWhrrWhrrWhrr...WhrrWhrrWhrr...Whrr...Wh.... click..click. :mad: :D

[Ozwest]

Ha, after the NH primary... I have my doubts about NH ever being "free" again.

Couldn't agree with you more Amistad.

Every time I think of the New Hampshire primary, it feels like a swift kick to the gonads. :(

[Brian Defferding]

:) I remember way too many winter mornings wondering if the car would start so I could get to work that day.

WhrrWhrrWhrrWhrr...WhrrWhrrWhrr...Whrr...Wh.... click..click. :mad: :D

Ha ha ha! No kidding. You start talking to your car, carressing the dashboard like an old horse finding its muster to ride again. "Come on baby, you can do it. I'll be good to you..."

[tonesforjonesbones]

I have changed my opinion on the Free STate Project due to the recent events with the band Pokerface. Evidently , the Project has been corrupted because you now can't talk about the zionist neo cons or our entanglements with Israel. They cancelled Pokerface due to comments on their website forum. So, they are playing the politically correct game...which will get this movement absolutely nowhere. Tones

[Brian Defferding]

I have changed my opinion on the Free STate Project due to the recent events with the band Pokerface. Evidently , the Project has been corrupted because you now can't talk about the zionist neo cons or our entanglements with Israel. They cancelled Pokerface due to comments on their website forum. So, they are playing the politically correct game...which will get this movement absolutely nowhere. Tones

To be fair, the Free State Project has nothing to do with Israel or foreign relations though. It's more of a localized political effort.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Well, here's the deal. If you can't talk about agenda's that are not healthy for the USA because it offends someone on your internet forum...it's not worth bothering with. We have to be able to speak truth..and even locally. Pokerface got blowback for speaking the truth about entangling alliences..and that is part of what we are trying to avoid..I think. Pokerface has been playing at these functions for years...now all of the sudden because a jewish fella is on the board of the Free State project they get cancelled because they spoke out about Israel...I'm just not ok with that. tones

[mport1]

Let's keep trying to make every state a truly free state again.

That would be great, but it isn't working. With our limited resources it would be much more effective to concentrate our efforts in one area. Also, the hope is that one we have success in NH, other states will follow our lead seeing the benefits of freedom.

[ARealConservative]

It is too Libertarian of an agenda for me.

I want to return to the rule of law we do have, not create a new rule of law.

[FSP-Rebel]

Well, here's the deal. If you can't talk about agenda's that are not healthy for the USA because it offends someone on your internet forum...it's not worth bothering with. We have to be able to speak truth..and even locally. Pokerface got blowback for speaking the truth about entangling alliences..and that is part of what we are trying to avoid..I think. Pokerface has been playing at these functions for years...now all of the sudden because a jewish fella is on the board of the Free State project they get cancelled because they spoke out about Israel...I'm just not ok with that. tones
It would be bad publicity for the FSP to knowingly book a band that has anti-semite views, just like if they were anti-black, hispanic and on down the line. I feel for Dennis, one of the main band members... But, unlike RP distancing himself from those racist comments in his journal, Dennis keeps being an apologist for his buddy w/o fiercely telling him he's wrong and/or setting him straight. I'm all for free speech, but I can ostracize you for saying things that are distasteful--that's part of reality.

[Flash]

I live in Massachusetts so I would like to move to NH someday. I like thier independence party:
http://republicofnh.org/

[FSP-Rebel]

And to the few of you who think the FSP failed the Revolution, I have to say I briefly agreed with that assessment for like a week after the primary. However, one must remember that the FSP is still in its infancy. The project officially goes into motion once 20,000 signers are achieved--we just cleared 8500. Though, originally it was thought that 20,000 movers would be necessary. Now, a reassessment of the quality of activists on the ground proves that we're already making great strides for liberty with the 555 activists that have already moved (many more have actually moved but haven't updated the counter, usually because many have signed up years ago and have forgotten their passwords in order to update). Now, it seems that 2000-5000 activists is all that will be needed to really swing NH into a real Libertarian state.

NH has 161 Pro-Freedom candidates running for state rep, check the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance nhliberty.org for the official list. How many Pro-Freedom candidates for the state house does your state have? A handful? Does your state have a group of activists that read and rate every bill that comes before the legislature before the reps even get a chance to see the bills? The NHLA also gives out a yearly report card with each rep's liberty rating, there were 17 reps who achieved A+ status. Do any of you have 17 full-blown Libertarians in your legislature?

Which brings me to the point of NH and the RP Revolution. On a national level, the media plays a mega role in the Prez election. Did we all forget how the media treated Paul leading up to the primary and the racist deal they brought up like the day or two before? The prize on the National level is too great and the elite won't let it go, yall should know.

In regards to those of you who don't like the weather in NH... The Founding Fathers pledged their Lives, their Fortunes and their sacred honor pushing for Independence from the biggest country on earth knowing that if they were caught they'd be hung (many FF's did lose property, fortunes, family members, etc). The Continental Army and the militia endured many a cold winter, especially during Valley Forge. Many soldiers preferred to go home rather than spend a winter freezing in a tent with few blankets, shoes, clothing and rations--but they still stayed the course. Those are what I call Real Patriots. I don't see that same set of cajones from many here on this forum which is dedicated to RP and the ideals of the Founding Fathers. Are you summer patriots only? Sam Adams says, The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks ... It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men.
The concept of heat has been invented, so I see no excuse. I do understand that many have families and might get homesick being away from them (if you can't persuade them to move for liberty). Somehow, I still think the Founding Fathers and their team of Patriots would look down upon folks that make excuses. Some think that FSPers should be finding them jobs or some of them may be concerned about whether or not they'll still be able to make the exact same living in NH... To them I say, again from Sam Adams... If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

We'll see who the Real Patriots are...

[mport1]

and to the few of you who think the fsp failed the revolution, i have to say i briefly agreed with that assessment for like a week after the primary. However, one must remember that the fsp is still in its infancy. The project officially goes into motion once 20,000 signers are achieved--we just cleared 8500. Though, originally it was thought that 20,000 movers would be necessary. Now, a reassessment of the quality of activists on the ground proves that we're already making great strides for liberty with the 555 activists that have already moved (many more have actually moved but haven't updated the counter, usually because many have signed up years ago and have forgotten their passwords in order to update). Now, it seems that 2000-5000 activists is all that will be needed to really swing nh into a real libertarian state.

Nh has 161 pro-freedom candidates running for state rep, check the new hampshire liberty alliance nhliberty.org for the official list. How many pro-freedom candidates for the state house does your state have? A handful? Does your state have a group of activists that read and rate every bill that comes before the legislature before the reps even get a chance to see the bills? The nhla also gives out a yearly report card with each rep's liberty rating, there were 17 reps who achieved a+ status. Do any of you have 17 full-blown libertarians in your legislature?

Which brings me to the point of nh and the rp revolution. On a national level, the media plays a mega role in the prez election. Did we all forget how the media treated paul leading up to the primary and the racist deal they brought up like the day or two before? The prize on the national level is too great and the elite won't let it go, yall should know.

In regards to those of you who don't like the weather in nh... The founding fathers pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor pushing for independence from the biggest country on earth knowing that if they were caught they'd be hung (many ff's did lose property, fortunes, family members, etc). The continental army and the militia endured many a cold winter, especially during valley forge. Many soldiers preferred to go home rather than spend a winter freezing in a tent with few blankets, shoes, clothing and rations--but they still stayed the course. Those are what i call real patriots. I don't see that same set of cajones from many here on this forum which is dedicated to rp and the ideals of the founding fathers. Are you summer patriots only? Sam adams says, the liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks ... It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men.
the concept of heat has been invented, so i see no excuse. I do understand that many have families and might get homesick being away from them (if you can't persuade them to move for liberty). Somehow, i still think the founding fathers and their team of patriots would look down upon folks that make excuses. Some think that fspers should be finding them jobs or some of them may be concerned about whether or not they'll still be able to make the exact same living in nh... To them i say, again from sam adams... if ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.

we'll see who the real patriots are...

+100

[error]

From my understanding of the Pokerface situation, they were asked not to come because of overt racism. The FSP doesn't want racists or even the appearance of racism, and Pokerface failed to allay the FSP's concerns about racist statements made by band members.

The FSP's official position is that: "Anyone who promotes violence, racial hatred, or bigotry is not welcome."

[error]

Now for something important.

Sure, we didn't win the primary in New Hampshire, despite having all kinds of people on the ground here from all over the country. Blaming this on the FSP misses the mark, though. The real reason Ron Paul lost NH was that the campaign screwed up. We even warned them, months before the primary, that they were going to lose and needed to change their strategy. They did not. That RP got as high as he did in New Hampshire, despite the campaign screwing up, is a testament to the hard work of FSP members and OLFOD participants who dropped their lives for a month or more to come here. But we always knew we couldn't do it alone, and the campaign failed to come through and do what was necessary to win.

[Ozwest]

Now for something important.

Sure, we didn't win the primary in New Hampshire, despite having all kinds of people on the ground here from all over the country. Blaming this on the FSP misses the mark, though. The real reason Ron Paul lost NH was that the campaign screwed up. We even warned them, months before the primary, that they were going to lose and needed to change their strategy. They did not. That RP got as high as he did in New Hampshire, despite the campaign screwing up, is a testament to the hard work of FSP members and OLFOD participants who dropped their lives for a month or more to come here. But we always knew we couldn't do it alone, and the campaign failed to come through and do what was necessary to win.

Thank you for your endeavor.

I spent every spare hour of my life following the campaign from Australia.

There was so much hope...

And then it died. Big time.

Live Free or Die... Died.

[No1ButPaul08]

The primary reason we lost NH was John McCain took out a loan to win and had over 100 town halls there. Meanwhile, Ron's town halls were few and far between and he sat on over 5 million. To blame the people of NH or the FSP is not looking at the facts.

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

I'd much rather move west. Colorado seems to be ripe for Free State Project II.

[porcupine]

i'm going with the cost of moving being an issue........... maybe if we could all have guaranteed jobs? find me one and i'll move.


There is no way I would move to New Hampshire. Nice state, but I prefer being able to kayak in January without a wetsuit.



This and many other comments like it are exactly why I DID move to New Hampshire. I'm sick of being around fair-weather friends of liberty who will talk and talk and talk and do next to nothing. They repeat "give me liberty or give me death" and then say "no kayaking is more important to me." Since I've been in New Hampshire, I've been surrounded by people actively changing the world around them, trying to make America's freest state a truly free state once more. It's invigorating, it's rewarding and it's FUN!


We're making good progress. We should have medical MJ within 2 years (something 85% of Dems in NH and 56% of Repubs in NH support) and have already opted out of Real ID. The Dems took over the state in 2006 because of anger over the Iraq War (this state is pretty anti-war) and straight ticket voting (which we've successfully gotten rid of in time for this election). As Ron Paul said at the Revolution March, we have more than 50 Ron Paul supporters running for state rep, so there is plenty to do (how many are running in YOUR state?)

As far as the excuse that Ron Paul didn't win the primary, two things. First, New Hampshire was Paul's 2nd best primary, so it wasn't a bad showing at all. No he didn't win, but if you recall, he, um, didn't win anywhere. That's part of what the FSP is going to FIX because as Ron Paul's race showed, our current strategy of being spread out and disunited is failing miserably. Second, how well did he do in your state?

Do you honestly have a chance to make a difference in your state? If yes, good. If not, what are you waiting for??! Move!

[turbosaab]

The FSP is a great opportunity to be part of a community of individuals who care about liberty and to effect meaningful change at a local level (and also enjoy the many freedoms that NH already offers).

I'd followed FSP online for quite a while, but it wasn't until I stopped by their summer gathering ("Porcfest") for a few days in June that I decided to make the move. If you have any interest at all you owe it to yourself to check out the Liberty Forum in the winter or Porcfest next summer. If nothing else you will enjoy a vacation and meet great people... but fair warning, most who see it for themselves end up moving.

P.S. Nothing is perfect, winter is only a few months out of the year.

[Brian Defferding]

The primary reason we lost NH was John McCain took out a loan to win and had over 100 town halls there. Meanwhile, Ron's town halls were few and far between and he sat on over 5 million. To blame the people of NH or the FSP is not looking at the facts.

Exactly. Paul didn't campaign too hard over there, McCain campaigned like crazy. If Paul campaigned the same amount McCain did, it would have been another story.

[canadian4ronpaul]

on the freestateproject homepage:

Obama Support Dropping in New Hampshire
Well there's some good news for us McCain supporters.
:confused:

[porcupine]

Let's keep trying to make every state a truly free state again.

We already are doing that and it's not working. Are we making any progress with that strategy? We ARE making progress here in New Hampshire.

[porcupine]

on the freestateproject homepage:

Obama Support Dropping in New Hampshire
Well there's some good news for us McCain supporters.
:confused:

So if you are happy that Obama's support is dropping, it automatically means you support McCain? You've never heard of 3rd parties?

[No1ButPaul08]

So if you are happy that Obama's support is dropping, it automatically means you support McCain? You've never heard of 3rd parties?

Well it does say US McCain supporters, implying the author supports McCain. I should point out, however, that the content in question wasn't written by the FSP, it's a link to a "pro-liberty" blog.

[ksu_s13]

IMO, the Free State Project is our best chance of having liberty in our lifetime. I used to be doubter of the project, but I recently signed their statement of intent to move because I feel that it's the logical next step in the r3VOLtion. More importantly though, the limited number of activists there ARE affecting change!

The fact is that despite all of the unprecedented hard work, meet ups, money bombs, and publicity stunts by grassroots individuals, Ron Paul's presidential campaign went NOWHERE.

Why? The powers-that-be have a stranglehold on who gets to be selected for president. If you don't play (business as usual) ball, you're cock blocked by the political and media establishment, end of story. The Anderson Cooper 360 special on the streets of Manchester was a perfect example of this. He discussed every Republican presidential candidate EXCEPT Ron Paul, even though he was surrounded by a SEA of Ron Paul supporters and signs. I won't even get into Ron Paul's unjust/illogical exclusion from the New Hampshire Republican debate or the fact that the primary vote was conducted on those dubious fraud boxes that we all know and love... :p

My point is that if even half of Ron Paul's primary supporters contributed to the FSP with their time, support, money, and energy it could quickly become a force to be reckoned with. The paradox of voter participation dictates that it would be a simple task to gain control of state and local government as a laughably small sum of people tend to vote in their respective elections, especially during 'off' years.

Everyone might not have the immediate means or desire to move to New Hampshire, but that doesn't mean they can't support the project in other ways (a tirade on a forum full of strangers is a good start :D).

As for me, I'm jumping ship from Kansas political mediocrity, to a place where my ideas, energies, and efforts won't be squandered. I want liberty and meaningful change ASAP. Family, friends, familiarity, and livelihood be damned. Live Free or Die! :)

[mport1]

IMO, the Free State Project is our best chance of having liberty in our lifetime. I used to be doubter of the project, but I recently signed their statement of intent to move because I feel that it's the logical next step in the r3VOLtion. More importantly though, the limited number of activists there ARE affecting change!

The fact is that despite all of the unprecedented hard work, meet ups, money bombs, and publicity stunts by grassroots individuals, Ron Paul's presidential campaign went NOWHERE.

Why? The powers-that-be have a stranglehold on who gets to be selected for president. If you don't play (business as usual) ball, you're cock blocked by the political and media establishment, end of story. The Anderson Cooper 360 special on the streets of Manchester was a perfect example of this. He discussed every Republican presidential candidate EXCEPT Ron Paul, even though he was surrounded by a SEA of Ron Paul supporters and signs. I won't even get into Ron Paul's unjust/illogical exclusion from the New Hampshire Republican debate or the fact that the primary vote was conducted on those dubious fraud boxes that we all know and love... :p

My point is that if even half of Ron Paul's primary supporters contributed to the FSP with their time, support, money, and energy it could quickly become a force to be reckoned with. The paradox of voter participation dictates that it would be a simple task to gain control of state and local government as a laughably small sum of people tend to vote in their respective elections, especially during 'off' years.

Everyone might not have the immediate means or desire to move to New Hampshire, but that doesn't mean they can't support the project in other ways (a tirade on a forum full of strangers is a good start :D).

As for me, I'm jumping ship from Kansas political mediocrity, to a place where my ideas, energies, and efforts won't be squandered. I want liberty and meaningful change ASAP. Family, friends, familiarity, and livelihood be damned. Live Free or Die! :)

Great points. Imagine if all our time, effort, and money went into NH instead of a broad nationwide race where RP had no chance. We would very easily "take over" the state. If you are that adamant against signing the pledge, please at least donate (http://www.freestateproject.org/volunteer/donate)to the effort so the message can get out to those that will.

[Barney]

Exactly. Paul didn't campaign too hard over there, McCain campaigned like crazy. If Paul campaigned the same amount McCain did, it would have been another story.

Oh please, supporters inside and outside the RP campaign bet the farm on NH. How many volunteers descended on the state?

How much campaigning was done in Nevada, Montana, Pennsylvania, Maine compared to what was poured into NH?

In hindsight, they should've bet the farm on Montanan to win at least one state and secure a spot at the convention.

[constituent]

Why aren't we all members of the Free State Project?

Because it is retarded and symptomatic of ignorant, backward thinking?

[No1ButPaul08]

Oh please, supporters inside and outside the RP campaign bet the farm on NH. How many volunteers descended on the state?

Many would argue that many supporters that came into NH didn't really help at all. Many took an in your face approach to campaigning that ended up not being very effective. My point stands that McCain took out a loan and had over 100 town halls just to win NH, while Ron hardly spent time there and sat on 5 million.



How much campaigning was done in Nevada, Montana, Pennsylvania, Maine compared to what was poured into NH?

The problem with this is that all the campaigns spent more time in NH, not just RP's. Huckabee, McCain, and Romney all ran better campaigns in NH. RP campaigned significantly more in NV, compared to the other candidates, and the results showed.



In hindsight, they should've bet the farm on Montanan to win at least one state and secure a spot at the convention.

Winning one state would have done nothing. RP would have had to win 5 states to secure a spot at the convention, and with a strong showing in NH, he could have done that. Instead, we saw a vastly underfunded Huckabee campaign blasting ads in NH, while Ron's were hardly seen.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Pokerface is a protest band. They have always been a protest band..and they were a protest band when they played for your events before...so what/who changed? tones

[Dreepa]

Pokerface is a protest band. They have always been a protest band..and they were a protest band when they played for your events before...so what/who changed? tones

Tom I want to fix a few facts for you:

One the person mentioned is not an FSP board member.
Two the person you mentioned was speaking on his own behalf not on the FSP's behalf.
Three Pokerface played at the 2008 Liberty Forum (And RP spoke at it).

For those who say it is 'too libertarian'... The FSP is what you make of it.
You move to NH to work for a smaller government.. simple as that. Most of the mover are either apolitical or are 'RON Paul Republicans'. Many of us are working within the GOP. Many are working at the town level.

NH has no income tax or sales tax.

For those of you who say a job is stopping you please go post on the FSP forum what type of job you are looking for and then you might be surprised at the help you get.

For those who can't commit to moving for whatever reason... I urge you to sign up as a friend of the FSP.. it commits you to nothing and you get the monthly newsletter.

Feel free to stop by the booth at the Campaign for Liberty. Ask for Dreepa and I would be willing to discuss the pros (and cons) of NH with anyone who is interested. (Tom you can ask me about the Pokerface situation as well)

[speciallyblend]

well let me know when they focus on colorado, we are already in the liberty state, if the free project would focus on the co mtns they could accomplish much more!!!!

[Brian Defferding]

Oh please, supporters inside and outside the RP campaign bet the farm on NH. How many volunteers descended on the state?

How much campaigning was done in Nevada, Montana, Pennsylvania, Maine compared to what was poured into NH?

In hindsight, they should've bet the farm on Montanan to win at least one state and secure a spot at the convention.

Maybe, but I'm not talking about Paul's supporters, but Paul himself. I think more presence there by Paul could only have gained his numbers, and probably by a lot more than the pollsters think.

[Ozwest]

Maybe, but I'm not talking about Paul's supporters, but Paul himself. I think more presence there by Paul could only have gained his numbers, and probably by a lot more than the pollsters think.

In retrospect, this is true.

Campaign Headquarters were semi-useless.

[maxxoccupancy]

The job situation is actually pretty good in New England--especially New Hampshire. If you have a Chemical, Electrical, or Mechanical Engineering degree, you can land work. Most freestaters have some kind of income on the side other than there job--usually developing websites, handling home maintenance, landscaping, notary, etc. That's just the way things are in NH.

Anyone concerned about the cold should come out to the seacoast. I live in Seabrook, and the winters here are not extreme because we're in the southernmost part of the state and because Seabrook is right on the ocean. Portsmouth and Hampton are almost as good, and rooms are fairly easy to land from October through the end of April. Moreover, there's work here on the coast. Those having trouble looking for work here can make do with employment in Mass for the time being.

Finally, anyone not willing to come up to New England should consider Wyoming out west, or at least move to a proliberty state and get active there. Worst of all are people who do absolutely nothing where they are, but come online and flame libertarians and constitutionalists who are actually doing something.

[tonesforjonesbones]

So what's going on. a bevy of Free State People coming onto the forum? I dont see myself moving to NH. It's too north and too cold. I live in Florida. I wouldn't mind N'awlins or Texas..lots of libertarians in texas. tones

[error]

Max, don't forget to mention the reason Seabrook is so much warmer is that you're all basking in the radioactive glow of Chern, er, the nuclear power plant. ;) Just kidding.

[JRegs85]

Has anyone here ever read Molon Labe! by Boston T Party?

http://www.freestatewyoming.org/

http://www.amazon.com/Molon-Labe-Javelin-Press/dp/1888766077/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219423515&sr=8-1

[The_Orlonater]

I rather like where I live now.

[porcupine]

well let me know when they focus on colorado, we are already in the liberty state, if the free project would focus on the co mtns they could accomplish much more!!!!

Ok. We've gotten 8500 people committed to move to New Hampshire and 555 of them have done so so far. How many are moving with you to the state of Colorado (which has a population too big, in my opinion, to be swayed by a small number of activists anyway).

As Dreepa said, if you can't move now because of jobs, weather, etc. Sign up as a friend of the FSP. It won't commit you to anything, but you'll start getting the monthly e-newsletter.

[FSP-Rebel]

So what's going on. a bevy of Free State People coming onto the forum? I dont see myself moving to NH. It's too north and too cold. I live in Florida. I wouldn't mind N'awlins or Texas..lots of libertarians in texas. tones
I've addressed the weather situation on page 4... Do me a favor and call into Free Talk Live (M-Sat, 7-10pm; 1-800-259-9231) with your sentiments about the NH winters this week (or next) and run it by the hosts (they moved from FL to NH a couple years ago to work for freedom). I look forward to the discussion... They have 40 affiliates on Saturdays FYI (like the mega stations in Tampa WFLA and Miami WFTL+ other big stations in Indy, WA, SC, Vegas and many more). I'm not trying to bust your balls, but weather shouldn't be a barrier to one's freedom my friend.;)

[Barney]

Maybe, but I'm not talking about Paul's supporters, but Paul himself. I think more presence there by Paul could only have gained his numbers, and probably by a lot more than the pollsters think.

Agreed. But that's true of any state. But keep in mind, the amount of resources it would have cost the campaign to undertake what the volunteers organized. And from what little I saw of them on YouTube, they seemed very intelligent and articulate and not at all belligerent as some has suggested.

Regardless, did Paul spend exorbitant amounts of time in Nevada, Montana, Maine, Washington, Pennsylvania, Louisiana and all the other states that faired better than NH?

I applaud what the FSP is trying to do, but I'm tired of the fallacy that NH is somehow the last bastion of the remnant in the country when it is clearly not true.

[No1ButPaul08]

Agreed. But that's true of any state. But keep in mind, the amount of resources it would have cost the campaign to undertake what the volunteers organized. And from what little I saw of them on YouTube, they seemed very intelligent and articulate and not at all belligerent as some has suggested.

Regardless, did Paul spend exorbitant amounts of time in Nevada, Montana, Maine, Washington, Pennsylvania, Louisiana and all the other states that faired better than NH?

Comparing any state to NH besides Iowa is a pointless exercise. Did John McCain take out a loan and have 100 town halls to win Montana? No, he did that to win NH. All the campaigns put most of their resources at the time into NH. Unfortunately, RP didn't do too many town halls nor did he spend much money there. The official campaign in NH was nothing more than pathetic. Getting out advertised by a vastly underfunded Huckabee campaign is inexcusable.

You also have to take caucus states vs. primary states into the equation. In caucus states, it's much easier for a candidate with a smaller but enthusiastic base to make a splash, as caucuses reward enthusiasm. When looking at just primary states, NH finished 2nd best, behind Pennsylvania's very impressive 16%.

My point about some of the volunteers stands. RP supporters from NH were coming on the boards suggesting that some of these people tone it down.

[nevadamidwife]

1) snow

2) birthing fascism
http://cfmidwifery.org/states/states.aspx?ST=NH

[Libertarian Ideals]

1) snow

You get used to it after the first winter. There have been movers from Arizona and Florida and they have gotten used to it.

2) birthing fascism
http://cfmidwifery.org/states/states.aspx?ST=NH

NH requires licenses on most occupations, but doesn't tax or regulate it beyond that.

There was a activist in NH who successfully fought state licensing on interior designers -- and kept it away for good. She then went on to form a national organization devoted to resisting similar legislation around the country.

What it usually takes to be successful is passion and persistence. You will have plenty of FSP participants backing you up and keeping your persistence alive in NH. And if you have a passion for liberty and keeping your occupation free, you can have a chance at successfully abolishing bad laws.

There was a homeschooling family who decided to move here, although they disliked the NH homescholing laws. After they settled in, they got a representative to sponsor legislation which would reduce the red-tape for homeschoolers. With a lot of work, they were successful in repealing the regulations.

There is a history of successfully fighting & resisting tyranny in NH. It is one of the oldest states, yet arguably the freest. (There are many things to consider when weighing on freedom of a state - more than population and how well Ron Paul did.)

I would love to see the regulatory laws in NH turned around. And I encourage you to join the FSP! :D

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

i'm going with the cost of moving being an issue........... maybe if we could all have guaranteed jobs? find me one and i'll move.

This was meant to be ironic, right?

[G-Wohl]

Frankly, because I hate New England.

Well, on behalf of New England, I wholeheartedly apologize for us having wealth, open-mindedness, culture, sophistication, and the best education institutions in the country.:D

[Libertarian Ideals]

i'm going with the cost of moving being an issue........... maybe if we could all have guaranteed jobs? find me one and i'll move.

You could secure a job before moving by posting on the job section on the Free State Project forums and visiting their helpful guide.

Job forums here (http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php#10) and job guide here (http://freestateproject.org/nhinfo).

[Brian]

It's too cold for me.

I would have to work from our Boston office, and pay Massachusetts state income tax. Not to mention the nasty drive to work.

Crappy showing in the primaries.

I have hopes of other regions eventually seceding from the union.

And if you haven't read the Nevada state GOP platform, here it is:

http://stewart-rhodes.blogspot.com/2008/04/repeal-patriot-act-and-military.html

Seems like us desert tortoises have a whole lot more in common with the Revolution than those currently in NH.

[Elwar]

I signed up early on, my wife has not. She's from the south and hates the cold...I could tolerate it.

Though she's already talked a few times about leaving the country...if we hit 20k I think I'd be able to fulfill my pledge.

[Libertarian Ideals]

@Brian. How much to do you know about the project? Your criticisms appear quite standard. I recommend you look around the main website and even participant's websites (like RidleyReport.com, Freestateblogs.net/blog/2 Here's some of the Project's victories, for instance: http://freestateblogs.net/victories06) before you say such things.



@All. In my opinion, here's one more good reason to move: :D


Source (http://freenewhampshire.blogspot.com/2008/08/should-you-move-from-california-to-new.html)
Should you move from California to New Hampshire? Not if you're a "liberal moonbat"...
Apparently this woman and her family (http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-hampshire/409746-we-leaving-new-hampshire-moving-back.html) made a big mistake by moving from southern california to New Hampshire:

"My family and I moved to New Hampshire from Southern California and we can't wait to get the hell out! Where do I even begin with this crappy state?

Okay, let's talk about the weather first. We are in the Milford (http://www.city-data.com/city/Milford-New-Hampshire.html)area in southern NH and the winter here is hell! I can't even tell you how many feet of snow we got last winter. At first you might think it would be charming but by April we were going stir crazy from being stuck in the house.

And if you think shoveling this crap is fun, forget it! After 800th snowfall we all had sore backs and were simply tired of digging our car out of this white mess. And if the snow isn't enough then the sub-zero temperatures and icy roads of death made it even worse.

And we're in southern NH! Not northern NH! Think I'm kidding? Then see this story about last year's record snowfall from the Nashua (http://www.city-data.com/city/Nashua-New-Hampshire.html)Telegraph:

Nashuatelegraph.com: Record snowfall closes out 2007 in New England (http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080101/NEWS02/131785766)

On top of that the people are cold and distant. They don't like newcomers and there's quite a lot of quiet backstabbing that goes on. Even if they are polite face to face, they will stab you in the back when talking to other natives.

And - as if that wasn't enough - these people are all gun nuts! You see people with pistols strapped to their hips walking around! And it's legal here. Yes, they can do it and the police can't stop them. The entire state is filled with gun toting lunatics.

One of the worst things we saw was a guy in a pickup truck drive by with a dead deer on the hood! The poor thing had blood dripping off of it and this vicious monster drove right by my kids. I could not believe it! And the freaks in this icy hellhole seem to think it's just fine and normal! Apparently they encourage this kind of sick animal violence.

And don't get me started about the property taxes either! They are OUT OF SIGHT!!! I could not believe how much more we paid in taxes here than in southern california. Of course they don't have an income or sales tax...they don't need one! They simply make enough by gouging property owners.

And please don't tell me how "progressive" NH is becoming. I have found it to be the complete opposite. A lot of the so-called Democrats here can be classified as republicans. Some of the democrats are gun nuts too! Aren't democrats supposed to support common sense gun control? This whole place is absolutely insane and I can't wait to get my husband and kids the hell out of here.

Live Free or Die? Ha! Leave, freeze or die is more like it! To heck with this icy wasteland! We are headed back to southern california and we're leaving the deer killers, snotty natives and idiotic gun nuts behind!

Oh and for those of you who think that NH has a low crime rate, you're crazy! There are all kinds of shootings (a cop even got killed) in Manchester (http://www.city-data.com/city/Manchester-New-Hampshire.html), along with home invasions, drug dealers and a very high rate of drug overdose deaths. Maybe there was a time when NH had a low crime rate but not now. I felt safer in southern california than I do in this backward, desolate mess of a state.

On top of all that there are pedophiles galore all over the place. For some reason this state has a higher rate of pedophiles than other states. If you've got kids NH is one of the worst states to bring them to! You better keep an eye on them 24 x 7. And they are also having big trouble with gangs here too. I thought we'd left that behind in california but now it's happening here. MS-13 and other gangs are building their numbers here and crime is on a huge upswing!

And what are these backward hick cops doing about it? Not much. They just seem to be letting it happen. Thanks but no thanks. We are headed out of here and back to California. At least they have semi-effective police there who know how to deal with gangs.

This republican-infested little backwater of a state is filled with cops that don't know their ass from their elbow. So watch out if you decide to move to the state of New Hampshire.

Guns, hunting and the general "Live Free or Die thing didn't go over too well with her and her family."

They are moving back to Southern California from New Hampshire.

[porcupine]

and - as if that wasn't enough - these people are all gun nuts! You see people with pistols strapped to their hips walking around! And it's legal here. Yes, they can do it and the police can't stop them. The entire state is filled with gun toting lunatics.

...

And please don't tell me how "progressive" nh is becoming. I have found it to be the complete opposite. A lot of the so-called democrats here can be classified as republicans. Some of the democrats are gun nuts too! Aren't democrats supposed to support common sense gun control? This whole place is absolutely insane and i can't wait to get my husband and kids the hell out of here.


lmao!!! ;D love it!

[Brian]

@Libertarian Ideals

Don't get me wrong, I have high respect for the FSP.

My FSP T-shirt has been washed so many times I look like a homeless person wearing it with all the holes.

Ya Ridley is awesome. I love his open carry police confrontation vids.

I've been on the FSP email list for several years now.

I actually consulted with one of the guys that started the project on the legal structure when it was being formed. I don't remember his name it was so many years ago. One of those smart Ivy League guys.

NH is just later on my list behind Montana, Alaska, Uruguay, Lakota Nation, etc ...

[porcupine]

I actually consulted with one of the guys that started the project on the legal structure when it was being formed. I don't remember his name it was so many years ago. One of those smart Ivy League guys.

Was it Jason Sorens, who at the time was a Yale Ph.D. Candidate?



NH is just later on my list behind Montana, Alaska, Uruguay, Lakota Nation, etc ...

well, Montana and Alaska are definitely among the freest states, but their main problem when it comes to having a liberty movement is size. It can take you 3 hours to meet the closest liberty activists. We've got a very active liberty movement and social scene going and that's something we have on AK and MT.

[Libertarian Ideals]

@Libertarian Ideals

Don't get me wrong, I have high respect for the FSP.

My FSP T-shirt has been washed so many times I look like a homeless person wearing it with all the holes.

Ya Ridley is awesome. I love his open carry police confrontation vids.

I've been on the FSP email list for several years now.

I actually consulted with one of the guys that started the project on the legal structure when it was being formed. I don't remember his name it was so many years ago. One of those smart Ivy League guys.

NH is just later on my list behind Montana, Alaska, Uruguay, Lakota Nation, etc ...


To each to his own. :)

Moving to the Republic of Lakotah would be great (or Alaska), but Lakotah hasn't been officially recognized as an independent nation yet, and I want to do something now.

Oh, and here's a funny fact: Porcupine, South Dakota is the unofficial capitol of the unrecognized Republic of Lakotah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Lakotah). I say it's funny because the porcupine is the mascot of the FSP, chosen because it's representative of the non-aggression principle. :cool:

[maxxoccupancy]

Any liberty lovers out there who are unable or unwilling to make their way up to NH should consider free county projects. Just get together with other activists and pick a small, libertarian county in your respective state. From there, select a couple of towns that have liberty minded people there. You are less likely to face resistance from natives, and you can accomplish a lot at the local level that would be difficult to do at the local level. Moreover, you're not leaving friends, family, and careers behind. Simply vote on a county, report which one was chosen by the majority, then find a couple of small towns to start focusing in on. You spend your time recruiting smaller government advocates from your state, then work to build a liberty base within that state.

[user]

Anyone in Nevada?

[porcupine]

As mentioned earlier, at the least, people should sign up as friend of the Free State Project so they can get updates in the e-newsletter. It doesn't commit you to anything.

[FTL_Ian]

This and many other comments like it are exactly why I DID move to New Hampshire. I'm sick of being around fair-weather friends of liberty who will talk and talk and talk and do next to nothing. They repeat "give me liberty or give me death" and then say "no kayaking is more important to me." Since I've been in New Hampshire, I've been surrounded by people actively changing the world around them, trying to make America's freest state a truly free state once more. It's invigorating, it's rewarding and it's FUN!


That's awesome. I'm so glad NH is cold. It really keeps out the talkers.

We have and will continue to attract the best activists, and as a result will be the beacon of liberty to the world.

:cool:

[Brian]

@Porcupine:
Possibly. I’m bad with names. I don’t think I was much help as not-for-profit entities aren’t my thing, just pointing him in the right direction.

I already have a network on a tribal reservation in Montana. Are we activists? I believe so in my mind.

Unfortunately, as you say, there isn’t much of a social scene as the town is so small. I just posted on the FSP Forums asking what the best city to live would be if I needed to work in Boston. I have friends in Boston, but being single it would help if there were some single ladies around. :)

I believe I’m already signed up as a FOFSP.

[Libertarian Ideals]

Endorsements
You can find the whole list here (http://freestateproject.org/about/endorsements).

"Our country has a new opportunity, an opportunity for Americans to pack up their bags, move to the 'Live Free or Die' State of New Hampshire, and make it even better and more free than it is now. The Free State Project offers us all a wonder prospect. I encourage my fellow Libertarians and all freedom-loving Americans to consider joining the Free State Project." More ... (http://freestateproject.org/images/russo.gif)

- Aaron Russo
Aaron Russo was a 2004 LP Presidential Candidate hopeful and a Hollywood producer.

"The lucky folks in New Hampshire may soon be the beneficiaries of a libertarian 'tipping point.' It is wonderful to imagine and anticipate the changes toward liberty we will see in New Hampshire when the Free State Project's goal of 20,000 libertarians moving there is realized. Then, think about the effect on neighboring New England states, then all the states, then all of North America. And why stop there. The Free State Project just could (and should) change the world. The sooner the better."

- David Bergland
David Bergland was the 1984 LP Presidential Candidate and is author of Libertarianism In One Lesson.

"I think FSP is a TERRIFIC idea. I know a lot of people have botched 'new country' and 'let's take over a county' ideas, but FSP is different. Not only do they have the best plan I've seen for actually making it happen, it's one that doesn't ask people to front a bunch of cash or risk making any moves, until a critical mass has been reached. Even if it's a long shot, the chance of having an example of freedom at work – that 'shining city on the hill' – is too good to pass up."

- Louis James
Louis James was the president of the Henry Hazlitt Foundation.

"Over 40 years ago I became interested in learning about liberty, freedom, limited government and advancing a more civil (vs. political) society. About 20 years ago I figured out that I was pretty much a classical liberal or libertarian and began supporting and working with various organizations that shared my views and objectives. I recently learned about the Free State Project and the possibility of liberty in our lifetime and I thought – that's a very reasonable, peaceful and sensible way to demonstrate the benefits of a free society for all. So I've signed up to participate in this grand undertaking in New Hampshire and my wife, Rebecca, and I encourage one and all likeminded freedom-lovers to join us in the great Free State Project."

- William A. Dunn
William A. Dunn, PhD is the Founder & Chairman of DUNN Capital Management and current Chairman of the Reason Foundation.

"There is to be no doubt: without such a grass-roots movement as the Free State Project, the usurpation of our rights will only continue to grow until this country needs one day be drenched in the blood of patriots, for a third time. Surely, the Free State Project has provided us with a peaceful alternative to such future bloodshed. Let us not forsake this opportunity to accomplish what those before us were willing to die for: good government, not against, but for the people.

The Liberty Forum of Ohio is proud to pledge it's support to the prodigious efforts of the Free State Project. May we stand united in this fight for truth and reason!"

See the full letter (http://freestateproject.org/files/LibertyForumEndorsement.pdf) (PDF) ...

- Stephen Valentine Hodos
Stephen Valentine Hodos is the Co-Founder and Director of Public Relations for Liberty Forum


-Welcoming messages from NH Residents (http://freestateproject.org/about/endorsements/welcome.php)
-Read Jason Sorens' article that started it all. (http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2001/libe131-20010723-03.html)
-Peruse the FSP essays & articles section. (http://freestateproject.org/community/essays)

[Flash]

It would be bad publicity for the FSP to knowingly book a band that has anti-semite views,

Being against Israel isn't anti-semitic. We can't let people think this or else we'll have NO freedom of speech on the issue.

[Libertarian Ideals]

Being against Israel isn't anti-semitic. We can't let people think this or else we'll have NO freedom of speech on the issue.

I respect or disaprove of people's actions, not lines on a map, groups of people, or people themselves.
Calling some person anti-semitic or another a terrorist gets us nowhere.


@Those who want to hear the whole story on the cancellation of Pokerface at the non-FSP event, you can read it over at the FSP forum (http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=1566864366617aba64cbee2f571588 59&topic=15696.msg189586#msg189586).

[mport1]

That's awesome. I'm so glad NH is cold. It really keeps out the talkers.

We have and will continue to attract the best activists, and as a result will be the beacon of liberty to the world.

:cool:

Yep, that is definitely a plus.

[LibertiORDeth]

NH and no other state is currently "free." The point is to get enough liberty lovers there to make it free.

Also, remember that you don't have to move now for it, but wouldn't it be worth any inconveniences to make the move when the 20,000 goal is reached? Even after that you have a 5 year window to straighten everything out and find a job. I think a little sacrifice is worth our freedom, we have already given so much of our time and money to the RP cause.

They don't seem to be going to their goal as fast as expected, an IMHO the project was a big let down. This not even including the other mentioned problems, such as it not being very much of a free state.

[alaric]

Ha, after the NH primary... I have my doubts about NH ever being "free" again.

I believe the votefraud in NH made it look way worse than it is. The way i see it, there are just a few at the top ruining a state with great potential. In addition to the FSP, just look next door: there is a real secession movement in Vermont that actually had big demonstrations a year or so back in the Montpelier/Barre area!

[alaric]

Being against Israel isn't anti-semitic. We can't let people think this or else we'll have NO freedom of speech on the issue.

no kidding! The real meaning of anti-semitic is anti- arab! The arabs are semites, most Israeli's are not!

[tonesforjonesbones]

When the Free State Project "allows" freedom of speech I'll think about it. You know Pokerface is a Protest Band...they have ALWAYS been a protest band. YOu sacked them due to words on their FORUM...their own private PROPERTY..SHAME ON YOU. You need to purge your board. You are corrupt. NOT to mention the fiasco in the NH primaries. PFFFT. Tones

[Libertarian Ideals]

@lukeownzu & toneforjonesbones,

With all do respect, the Free State Project is for doers, not complainers. :) We are recruiting people who see a problem, and want to do something about it, rather than be content with discussing things on the internet.


If you have any questions about the project, you can PM me here on RPForums or post your questions on the appropriate FSP sub-forum. I recommend the later, as you will get many very helpful, informative responses. ;) http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=56eccdf0e308addc611cc54a26df0e d7&board=12.0

@tonesforjonesbones, if you belive you have an honest gripe with the FSP board, you can contact them here.
http://freestateproject.org/org


But caution: If you are merely interested in whining, FSPers won't want you, and will make it known. I recommend looking around the FSP website a bit before you blast how awful the FSP was for giving Paul low numbers in the primaries, and how the FSP board restricts freedom of speech and how you want them to change their conduct before you might join.

[Truth Warrior]

Maybe because "free state" is an oxymoron. :D

[Zeeder]

I think the real reason more people don't join the free state project is that some of us are addicted to the victim status. Actually winning or make true progress would give us less to whine about. It's the whining we thrive upon.

If we all actually moved to the New Hampshire we WOULD win. Instead of taking over a single state, we believe foolishly that we can change the whole country easier.

[Truth Warrior]

I think the real reason more people don't join the free state project is that some of us are addicted to the victim status. Actually winning or make true progress would give us less to whine about. It's the whining we thrive upon.

If we all actually moved to the New Hampshire we WOULD win. Instead of taking over a single state, we believe foolishly that we can change the whole country easier. New Hampshire would NOT be pleased if we did.<IMHO>

[constituent]

If we all actually moved to the New Hampshire we WOULD win... Instead of taking over a single state...

All this "taking over" shit is what keeps me away (just who do you reckon you're gonna put in charge when you do? think they'll be any better? ::scoff:: ).

New Hampshire for New Hampshisters, Texas for Texans, so on and so forth.

And how is it that libertarians with their "non-coercion" axiom seem so hell bent to "take over" anyway? It baffles the mind.

[tonesforjonesbones]

I guess the Free State Project has selected this forum to market/recruit..I see a lot of "new members" all of the sudden. Look...I AM doing something..I am calling you out for your lack of liberty. Either you are for freedom or you are not for freedom. If you shut down voices on certain issues...then it really isn't free is it? That would be contolled. Believe me , I'm not a whiner..I am very direct. Make no mistake about that . Tones

[porcupine]

All this "taking over" shit is what keeps me away (just who do you reckon you're gonna put in charge when you do? think they'll be any better? ::scoff:: ).

New Hampshire for New Hampshisters, Texas for Texans, so on and so forth.

And how is it that libertarians with their "non-coercion" axiom seem so hell bent to "take over" anyway? It baffles the mind.

How does moving to a place violate the non-aggression principle?

[porcupine]

Either you are for freedom or you are not for freedom. If you shut down voices on certain issues...then it really isn't free is it? That would be contolled. Believe me , I'm not a whiner..I am very direct. Make no mistake about that . Tones

What about freedom of association? Does the FSP have the freedom to disassociate from people it doesn't like?

How does not doing business with someone violate their freedom? So if I decide I like Target better than Wal-Mart, it's un-libertarian of me to shop at Target?

You need a lesson in the basic principles of freedom, my friend.

[rayzer]

If only a small portion of Ron Paul supporters signed up we could get this done. Wouldn't you want to move if 20,000 other liberty activists were going to be there? Sadly it is looking like the federal government is beyond repair and I think concentrating our efforts in one state would have a much higher chance of success.


http://www.freestateproject.org

This is a REALLY good question! See you in New Hampshire!

[constituent]

What about freedom of association? Does the FSP have the freedom to disassociate from people it doesn't like?

How does not doing business with someone violate their freedom? So if I decide I like Target better than Wal-Mart, it's un-libertarian of me to shop at Target?

You need a lesson in the basic principles of freedom, my friend.

lol.

the folks from new hampshire have a right to live in the manner they like, no? the purpose of government (allegedly) is to serve on their behalf, correct?

they've got their own thing going on already.

force feeding them immigrants in order to (launch a coup) dilute what little say they do have in the government that they (paid for) have "chosen" to have represent them isn't an act of aggression? (as a side note, i'd like to hear your opinion on "the immigration issue" sometime)

and for what, exactly? some political cause?

and who will be runnin' the show then?

from the looks of things, just another band of pushy, would be if they could be, hacks.


i think truth warrior spelled it out quite well above.

stew on it.

[porcupine]

the folks from new hampshire have a right to live in the manner they like, no? the purpose of government (allegedly) is to serve on their behalf, correct?

they've got their own thing going on already.



No the purpose of government is not to serve on behalf of the people. It's to secure liberty. Second, you've never moved into a new town and voted in an election? It's the same thing. We're moving into a new state.

Ever hear of freedom of travel?




force feeding them immigrants in order to (launch a coup) dilute what little say they do have in the government that they (paid for) have "chosen" to have represent them isn't an act of aggression? (as a side note, i'd like to hear your opinion on "the immigration issue" sometime)




A coup is a violent overthrow of government and the FSP is absolutely opposed to violence, which you would know if you had read the website. We're working within the political process (with a great deal of success I might add).

Umm, no, moving is not an act of aggression :rolleyes:. Perhaps you would like to pass a soviet-style law that requires a license to leave your city of residence, but until then, we are free as Americans to live in any part of our country that we please. You would probably have no problem if I had moved to New Hampshire to get a better job, or because I liked the cooler weather, but because I moved for FREEDOM (*gasp*), you are offended.




and for what, exactly? some political cause?



Well, my own purpose is so that I can be around libertarians that actually DO something about protecting their freedoms instead of people who merely talk about it on the internet and leave it at that.




and who will be runnin' the show then?



The citizens of New Hampshire, such as myself. As always.


So, constituent, what kinds of pro-liberty activism is going on in your neck of the woods? What's the last thing YOU got involved in to protect freedom? What groups, causes, etc are you active in at the moment?

[constituent]

Well, my own purpose is so that I can be around libertarians that actually DO something about protecting their freedoms instead of people who merely talk about it on the internet and leave it at that.



says the guy on the internet.

what's going on in my neck of the woods?

a whole lotta discussion about renting one's "property" from the government.

oh yea, and re-electing rp to congress.

why? what are you actually doing? other than staging a publicity stunt every now and then, that is (oh yea, and temporarily hijacking internet discussion boards)?

p.s. the whole, "what do you want, some kinda soviet blah blah blah" bullshit doesn't work anymore, your buddies wore that one out long ago 'round here.

your idea is backward and counterproductive,your understanding of human interaction/nature/society fundamentally flawed, and that's all there is to it.

[constituent]

No the purpose of government is not to serve on behalf of the people. It's to secure liberty.

on the federal level, i will agree with you. but that's not what we're talking about is it?



Ever hear of freedom of travel?

yea, i'm all about it. check my posts on immigration.



A coup is a violent overthrow of government

lol.

never heard the phrase "bloodless coup?"

i would venture to guess that our readers have.




and the FSP is absolutely opposed to violence, which you would know if you had read the website.

you speak for everyone? somehow i doubt that.


We're working within the political process (with a great deal of success I might add).

really? which ones?

[Alex Libman]

I'm a member, but unfortunately I'm blowing my "First 1000" pledge...

With a million plus non-libertarians in that state, secession or serious political change is unlikely. I do, however, see it as a focal point of free market activism and community. If you're into the hands-on in-person stuff, New Hampshire is the place to be. If not, let Internet be our Free State Project for now.

I do see it as a staging area for something else: free town projects, sea-steading, etc. Heck, I'm sure there'll be a Free Space Station Project someday! All this will obviously require investment of capital, so it's a perfectly reasonable position to stay where you are if you have a solid job / business that can't be moved, and let your money do the talking for you.

Sooner or later, Atlas will shrug!

[porcupine]

on the federal level, i will agree with you.

The principle of good government is the same for all governments. The purpose of government is to secure liberty. You don't agree, which is fine. You're not the type of person I'm hoping will join the project (and you wouldn't be able to agree to the statement of intent anyway).




you speak for everyone? somehow i doubt that.



No, it's on our website's FAQ's (http://www.freestateproject.org/org/faq)

Q: What kind of people are not welcome as members of the Free State Project?

A: Anyone who promotes violence, racial hatred, or bigotry is not welcome.




Your posts have made it clear that you're not familiar with the FSP so I'm going to agree to disagree at this point. Our triumphs, challenges, plans and projects are available on YouTube, the various forums which FSP participants frequent and, even better, at our two annual events: PorcFest and The New Hampshire Liberty Forum (which is coming up this March. Ron Paul will probably be speaking at the Liberty Forum for the 3rd time).

[constituent]

The principle of good government is the same for all governments. The purpose of government is to secure liberty.

lol @ governments securing liberty. there is a reason the constitution was designed as a restraint upon government and the would be little dictators who seek to run it.



You're not the type of person I'm hoping will join the project.

I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to assume you know what "type" of person i am, you collectivist shill.

...also i understand the subtext of what you're saying here, free thinkers not allowed.

follow, follow, or stfu and gtfo of the way.



No, it's on our website's FAQ's (http://www.freestateproject.org/org/faq)


and as we all know, everyone lives by the faq, right?

lol. you're more diluted than i thought.



Q: What kind of people are not welcome as members of the Free State Project?

A: Anyone who promotes violence, racial hatred, or bigotry is not welcome.

.... guess this gets back to my original point about aggression. you seem to have confused aggression with violence/hatred/bigotry.

[as the blind lead the blind leading the blind]

that said, funny you've postured yourself as thought police already. and to think, you're not even "in charge" yet.



Your posts have made it clear that you're not familiar with the FSP so I'm going to stop feeding the troll at this point.

[lol @ spambot calling me a troll]

actually, i'm quite familiar w/ the FSP as their relentless attempts to recruit from amongst those attracted to rp's candidacy through spamming this board, insulting those who choose not to aide your agenda, and various other means...

i'm also familiar w/ how about this time last year you (as a group) narced out one of your own to the feds...

...seen that one before

.........

btw

still waiting for an answer to the question regarding the political victories you claimed to have achieved....

[pacelli]

Ha, after the NH primary... I have my doubts about NH ever being "free" again.

+1

[constituent]

If you're into the hands-on in-person stuff, New Hampshire is the place to be. If not, let Internet be our Free State Project for now.


and that's exactly the problem right there.

if you're into the hands-on in-person stuff there is no better place to be than where you are right now.

maybe i'm crazy, but i'll stick w/ reality and the opportunities i've got rather than pursuing someone else's utopian dream, feeding/buying into their delusions of grandeur.

[constituent]

Your posts have made it clear that you're not familiar with the FSP so I'm going to agree to disagree at this point. Our triumphs, challenges <snip drivel>

slick move swapping out the insult for a sales pitch.

[porcupine]

Just trying to be civil. We disagree on what the role of government (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_state_project#The_statement_of_intent) is and that's fine.

[ShowMeLiberty]

and that's exactly the problem right there.

if you're into the hands-on in-person stuff there is no better place to be than where you are right now.

maybe i'm crazy, but i'll stick w/ reality and the opportunities i've got rather than pursuing someone else's utopian dream, feeding/buying into their delusions of grandeur.


"We will challenge them on all fronts - in every state and at all levels of government. Individual liberty must be our goal. Peace and prosperity will follow."

excerpt from "Sneak Peek at Dr. Paul’s Rally for the Republic Speech"
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog/?p=393

[FSP-Rebel]

and that's exactly the problem right there.

if you're into the hands-on in-person stuff there is no better place to be than where you are right now.

maybe i'm crazy, but i'll stick w/ reality and the opportunities i've got rather than pursuing someone else's utopian dream, feeding/buying into their delusions of grandeur.
It has been said that insanity is trying to do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Liberty lovers have tried for over 30 years to use the LP as an engine to institute change and what has it gotten us? I applaud everyone for doing something, but we are at odds as to what we think will be the best use of our limited activist resources for the future, which is fine. I, for one, am excited to be going to the Rally and hope to see everyone refreshed for the future.

What kills me is how RP folks can overlook what the national media did on the heels of the NH primary (which is like the main hang-up for most RP supporters). If there is an elitist conspiracy, which many profess, how can they possibly be stopped on a national level (talking about delusions of grandeur)? As I've said before, the prize (control of the Fed) is too great which is why liberty lovers need to consolidate their numbers in one state. I'll always be interested in any success that the C4L can achieve, but it would be nice for non-FSPers to acknowledge the success that NH is having (and will continue to have) in their own right. One of my main draws for moving to NH is to be around many other like-minded folks if and when things get bad economically. Strength in numbers will be important as time goes by... Ron said it himself, there are many many pro-freedom candidates running for office in NH--I would hope the non-interested would at least pay attention to the inevitable success that this will undoubtedly bring about. Don't forget, RP got one of the highest donation %s per capita from NH residents--so don't hate

[FTL_Ian]

We have already won. If you love liberty, you should come here and win and live free with us in utopia!

NH Statist exodus in 3, 2, 1... :cool:

[porcupine]

It has been said that insanity is trying to do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Liberty lovers have tried for over 30 years to use the LP as an engine to institute change and what has it gotten us? I applaud everyone for doing something, but we are at odds as to what we think will be the best use of our limited activist resources for the future, which is fine. I, for one, am excited to be going to the Rally and hope to see everyone refreshed for the future.

What kills me is how RP folks can overlook what the national media did on the heels of the NH primary (which is like the main hang-up for most RP supporters). If there is an elitist conspiracy, which many profess, how can they possibly be stopped on a national level (talking about delusions of grandeur)? As I've said before, the prize (control of the Fed) is too great which is why liberty lovers need to consolidate their numbers in one state. I'll always be interested in any success that the C4L can achieve, but it would be nice for non-FSPers to acknowledge the success that NH is having (and will continue to have) in their own right. One of my main draws for moving to NH is to be around many other like-minded folks if and when things get bad economically. Strength in numbers will be important as time goes by... Ron said it himself, there are many many pro-freedom candidates running for office in NH--I would hope the non-interested would at least pay attention to the inevitable success that this will undoubtedly bring about. Don't forget, RP got one of the highest donation %s per capita from NH residents--so don't hate

^this

[Dreepa]

When the Free State Project "allows" freedom of speech I'll think about it. You know Pokerface is a Protest Band...they have ALWAYS been a protest band. YOu sacked them due to words on their FORUM...their own private PROPERTY..SHAME ON YOU. You need to purge your board. You are corrupt. NOT to mention the fiasco in the NH primaries. PFFFT. Tones

Tom,

Once again I have to correct you.
One individual said that. And that person was not on the board of the FSP.
The board is not corrupt.

Pokerface was not sacked by the FSP as they were not hired by the FSP.
Pokerface did play at the 2008 FSP Liberty Forum.

Again I would be happy to discuss this in MN if you wish.

constituent--- Some victories:
Stopping LOTS of bad bills
Every Bill is reviewed (nhliberty.org) for good or bad.
Helping reducing town bills by being involved in local towns (budgets are voted by townspeople here in NH)
One FSPer elected to the NH house.
Dozens of FSPers elected at the town level.
Over 100 pro liberty people running for NH House
Over 40 Ron Paulers running for NH House

yes there have been many losses but every week it seems more people move and more locals join the up with 'us'.

If you are in MN feel free to stop by the booth and talk with me...

I have no problem if people don't join the FSP but bashing it when it is just getting started doesn't get anyone anything.
Regarding the primary ..... NH people want to see the candidate in person not just activists knocking on doors. Also NH had the most candidates before they dropped out. In other states Ron didn't get as high as NH even when there were only 2-3 candidates running.
And God Bless ID and PA!

[FTL_Ian]

At least one member of Pokerface is a bigot. (The other members either agree or tolerate it.) My friends and I don't care to be around people like that, so they were ostracized.

[josephadel_3]

I live in Maine, so a move to NH would be relatively easy. But the thing is I don't want to commit yet. I'm still in college and don't know where I want to live or what kind of job market I'm looking for.

[mport1]

Those who are complaining about the lack of success NH is having are missing the point (and as others have pointed out there have been plenty of victories). There will only be success WHEN PEOPLE MOVE. There are only a handful of people there right now. If thousands of activists moved THEN we would see some real changes.

[dcatman]

If only a small portion of Ron Paul supporters signed up we could get this done. Wouldn't you want to move if 20,000 other liberty activists were going to be there? Sadly it is looking like the federal government is beyond repair and I think concentrating our efforts in one state would have a much higher chance of success.


http://www.freestateproject.org

This is an easy one....

I used to live in NH... Too freakin cold. No way in hell I'm moving there.

[daviddee]

...

[V4Vendetta]

Because I don't want to move to New Hampshire and live around nothing but liberals.

[porcupine]

I live in Maine, so a move to NH would be relatively easy. But the thing is I don't want to commit yet. I'm still in college and don't know where I want to live or what kind of job market I'm looking for.

If you don't want to commit yet, the best thing to do is to sign up as a "Friend of the FSP." It doesn't commit you to anything, but you'll get our monthly newsletter so you can keep up with the goings on of the Project.

As far as those saying New Hampshire has too many liberals, every place has liberals, but the state as a whole is definitely very libertarian in it's choices. It's the ONLY state to not have a mandatory seat belt law for adults. It has the lowest taxes of the 48 contiguous states (Alaska's are lower because they're subsidized by the feds) and has NO income tax and NO sales tax. It has some of the best gun laws in the country (can open carry anywhere without a license except a courtroom, and licenses are $10 and the form is 2/3 of a page long - and shall issue. No fingerprints or photos can be taken to get the license, and license holders ARE NOT put into a state database. Instead, the licenses are given out locally). The state has great privacy protections too.

I could go on and on and on. It's anything but a liberal state.

Regarding the cold, if not putting on a jacket is more important to you than your freedom, you probably wouldn't fit in with us anyway.

[daviddee]

...

[daviddee]

...

[daviddee]

///

[Micah Dardar]

Well, I live in New Orleans.
We have Mardi Gras.
We have Bourbon Street to party the night away and drink on the streets legally.
We exchange your blizzards for our hurricanes.
We have a less draconian law for possession of marijuana.
We probably have more jobs than New Hampshire at the moment.
We are about to be the only state where citizens have nominated Ron Paul to be on the Presidential ballot, if all goes well, just so we can send a message to our young governor about which old Republican he should be listening to.

Hmmm... Maybe we should start the Free City Project.

[porcupine]

Yes, we have a state inspection law. But we don't have a state seat belt law. As far as rents being expensive, my rent was about 1/3 cheaper than where I moved from.

Regarding New Orleans, I'm psyched about Ron Paul being on the ballot down there. Consider coming up to the free state after the 2008 elections.

[FSP-Rebel]

End of rant for tonight I will part with the following:

NH is about middle of the pack for most people who have actually lived/researched each of the 50 states. By no means the freest and by no means the most restrictive. I would put it squarely at #25... #40 if you factor in its horrible weather as weather restricts freedom.
Oh Really? Actually, Morgan Quitno Press does annual ratings for states in many categories and they've rated NH as the #1 Most Livable State for the 5th consecutive year in a row in addition to NH being the safest state in the country. See for yourself at http://www.morganquitno.com/. As far as property taxes are concerned, they clearly need to be shrunk (hopefully to nothing in the future). But, taxes are assessed on a local level so all ya have to do is find an area which suits your tastes. Either way, the overall tax load is still the smallest of all the lower 48 states--period.

As far as having too many liberals, that is changing faster than one might expect. NH's population took a ~5000 person dip over the last year, all the while Free Staters are moving in. 2ndly, the liberals have tried over the last 2 years to institute a sales/income tax and seatbelt law but have been shot down repeatedly. Sounds to me like NHs conservative/libertarian streak is doing just fine. Just wait and see how things are in a year or two... :cool:

[JonM]

New Hampshire was chosen not just because it still against the odds retains some freedoms that have been lost in other states. It was chosen because of all the states with lower populations, it had the best mechanisms for retaining and increasing that freedom.

Yes, property taxes here are high. So high they tick people off and they vote against spending more money. Many of the most pro-liberty state reps come from towns that border MA. And since the commonwealth of MA does not give you a credit for taxes paid to another state, those people in southern NH who commute into MA are quite against imposing an income tax. NH towns that border MA tend to be fiscally conservative.

Right now my district which has three towns, Hudson, Litchfield and Pelham have 13 representatives in the state legislature. That means when I vote in the primary, I get to pick up to 13 people to appear on the Republican ballot. Come election day, I get to vote for up to 13 again. So far the NHLA has endorsed 10 reps from these towns. To see the report card from the last session look here: http://nhliberty.org/2008_liberty_rating
To see their 2008 endorsements look here: http://nhliberty.org/2008_endorsements

What other state has anything even close to what the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance does? In a few months we'll see how many of the pro-liberty reps win re-election and how many are able to join them.

[josephadel_3]

End of rant for tonight I will part with the following:

NH is free when compared to its neighbors... or by those who have fled the People's Republic of California.

Just because born-again-liberals consider a state free does not mean a state is free....

NH is about middle of the pack for most people who have actually lived/researched each of the 50 states. By no means the freest and by no means the most restrictive. I would put it squarely at #25... #40 if you factor in its horrible weather as weather restricts freedom.

The weather is great if you like skiing or snowboarding. What a friggin blast! I can't wait for winter! (Mainer)

[porcupine]

The weather is great if you like skiing or snowboarding. What a friggin blast! I can't wait for winter! (Mainer)

The weather thing is really overblown. It's not that big of a deal (at least to me). I really enjoy the change of seasons. It's one of the most beautiful things that you can't describe until you've experienced it.

[constituent]

There will only be success WHEN PEOPLE MOVE. There are only a handful of people there right now. If thousands of activists moved THEN we would see some real changes.

:rolleyes:

When, If, then

the tired ol' libertarian mantra

Begin to devote half the time to your HOME communities that you do dreaming up clever distractions, mark my words, this country WILL get somewhere, and that's a strategy requiring no "only, when" caveat...

[not that i care, but since the thread is being bumped anyway]

[roho76]

Heh. Having been born and raised in Wisconsin, I've had enough of long, sub-zero winters and all that snow. :) New Hampshire would only be moreso.

Places like Wisconsin and New England are beautiful vacation destinations, but not places I personally want to live. Besides, freedom shouldn't mean everyone who wants it has to relocate to some tiny, out-of-the-way place. Sounds too much like a "free speech zone" to me. Let's keep trying to make every state a truly free state again.

Well put.

[FTL_Ian]

Good luck, guys. We'll be waiting for you in NH when you get tired of trying the same things over and over again.

In the meantime you can watch the peaceful evolution to the voluntary society occur here:
http://freekeene.com

[tonesforjonesbones]

I LOVE Nawlins. I hope ya'll stay safe through this storm! tones

[porcupine]

Begin to devote half the time to your HOME communities that you do dreaming up clever distractions, mark my words, this country WILL get somewhere, and that's a strategy requiring no "only, when" caveat...

I devote plenty of time to my HOME community here in New Hampshire and I daresay I, the hundreds of free staters around me and the local libertarian activists that have come out of the woodwork since we've gotten here have gotten more done than will ever get done on the national stage. More continue to move all the time so it'll only get better.

No, we're not there yet, but we're making slow, steady progress and having a helluva lotta fun doing it.

[porcupine]

Another great interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qf6h5OUpEc

And great comments about the "umbrella" that you're missing out on.

[mport1]

Another great interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qf6h5OUpEc

And great comments about the "umbrella" that you're missing out on.

Good stuff.

[Leroy_Jenkems]

Change the target state from New Hampshire to MONTANA, and you can count me in. Montana is already much freer than NH anyway, and I plan to move there within the next 6-7 years.

[RevolutionSD]

Good luck, guys. We'll be waiting for you in NH when you get tired of trying the same things over and over again.

In the meantime you can watch the peaceful evolution to the voluntary society occur here:
http://freekeene.com

Sounds good Ian, but aren't the people who want to play politics actually hurting the cause of those who want a true voluntary society? Isn't playing politics, even in the attempt at shrinking the size of government, just legitimatizing the state? To me it seems the politicos are ruining it for those who want to simply not obey.

[FTL_Ian]

Nope, they can go play the state's games if they want. Doesn't hurt us at all. We are living freer every day. ;)

[Libertarian Ideals]

Nope, they can go play the state's games if they want. Doesn't hurt us at all. We are living freer every day. ;)

And making the state look more silly.

The Couch Patrol arrives
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/022558.html (The Couch Patrol arrives)

[porcupine]

Change the target state from New Hampshire to MONTANA, and you can count me in. Montana is already much freer than NH anyway, and I plan to move there within the next 6-7 years.

At least you're moving for more freedom. Concentration of liberty lovers is the important thing.

We have quite a few Montana liberty lovers moving to New Hampshire with us. The biggest reason cited is that it's too hard to meetup with like-minded people in such a large state as Montana. It can take all day one way to meet up with like minded people, which makes activism and liberty-focused fellowship difficult.


Moving to NH from MT: Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2E361mABw4

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qf6h5OUpEc

Part 3: forthcoming

[OferNave]

I am. Born and raised in Los Angeles, signed up in 02 or 03, made the move one year ago. I'm writing this from Concord, NH.

Never been happier. :)

BTW-Regarding recent NH political climate, there was a backlash to Bush in 2006 (yes, it affected state politics, sheep are sheep) so that Dems had a majority in the house for the first time in a century. It won't last. There have been nearly as many movers in the last year as there have been in all the time before that, and it's speeding up. Several new people a week.

If you're interested, keep in eye on the state primaries coming up on Sep 9 - over 40 Ron Paul Republicans running for state rep and senate this year! And then the NH GOP convention in late Sep, where we'll be electing new officials and changing the platform...

FSP successes have been piling up faster and faster lately, and I have great hope for all the events to come in the next two months. As for 2010, oh boy is that going to be awesome.

PS- This is me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVhH6TQnedc

[OferNave]

Sounds good Ian, but aren't the people who want to play politics actually hurting the cause of those who want a true voluntary society? Isn't playing politics, even in the attempt at shrinking the size of government, just legitimatizing the state? To me it seems the politicos are ruining it for those who want to simply not obey.

Personally, I'm a fan of both strategies.

[muh_roads]

I received flyers and book marks from them all day yesterday here in MN. It sounds like a great idea. The problem is people need to have work lined up in order to move.

I have a suggestion for the Free State Project. Put together a job seeking index for various positions people can browse and try to apply for. In the meantime maybe link to craigslist NH catagory or something along with other search engines.

[porcupine]

I received flyers and book marks from them all day yesterday here in MN. It sounds like a great idea. The problem is people need to have work lined up in order to move.

I have a suggestion for the Free State Project. Put together a job seeking index for various positions people can browse and try to apply for. In the meantime maybe link to craigslist NH catagory or something along with other search engines.

We've got some of that over at the jobs section of FreeStateProject.org

If all that's holding you back is a job, sign the statement of intent and start lookin' :D. I didn't have a job when I moved, but found one quickly (healthcare). The cost of living is much lower here so even though I have a lower salary, I'm ahead of where I was.

[muh_roads]

We've got some of that over at the jobs section of FreeStateProject.org

If all that's holding you back is a job, sign the statement of intent and start lookin' :D. I didn't have a job when I moved, but found one quickly (healthcare). The cost of living is much lower here so even though I have a lower salary, I'm ahead of where I was.

Spoke too fast. I guess you guys are already on top of that. It felt like such a stupid and obvious suggestion anyway...lol

[Leroy_Jenkems]

At least you're moving for more freedom. Concentration of liberty lovers is the important thing.

We have quite a few Montana liberty lovers moving to New Hampshire with us. The biggest reason cited is that it's too hard to meetup with like-minded people in such a large state as Montana. It can take all day one way to meet up with like minded people, which makes activism and liberty-focused fellowship difficult.

Well, I hate to be the loner grouch, but moving somewhere to get away from people altogether is my plan. Not Ted Kazinski-type solitude, more like Henry David Thoreau solitude. I'll still have the "Internets" in Montana (hopefully) :rolleyes:

[porcupine]

Well, I hate to be the loner grouch, but moving somewhere to get away from people altogether is my plan. Not Ted Kazinski-type solitude, more like Henry David Thoreau solitude. I'll still have the "Internets" in Montana (hopefully) :rolleyes:

That's respectable. You can still vote and stuff. Hey, we have lots of rural areas way out of the way in New Hampshire (and some of them have high concentrations of free staters that are starting alternative economies and trying to get elected to local law enforcement positions)

[Libertarian Ideals]

Moved to New Hampshire yesterday. Glad I did.
I wish I knew about this project & moved here years ago.


If you don't want to make any commitments, I think you should at least visit NH and sign up as a friend of the Free State Project. I think you will be glad you didn't write off the FSP without having really looked into it.

[Leroy_Jenkems]

If you don't want to make any commitments, I think you should at least visit NH and sign up as a friend of the Free State Project. I think you will be glad you didn't write off the FSP without having really looked into it.

It sounds worthy of checking out in-person for the concept alone. The self-sufficient/independent local economy infrastructure sounds very cool, too. Which leads one to ask the question:

Are there plentiful natural resources in NH? Has anyone done a geological study for minerals and the like? Are there any environmental restrictions set in place, be it on the state level or the FSP community, to limit mining prospects?

[Libertarian Ideals]

It sounds worthy of checking out in-person for the concept alone. The self-sufficient/independent local economy infrastructure sounds very cool, too. Which leads one to ask the question:

Are there plentiful natural resources in NH? Has anyone done a geological study for minerals and the like? Are there any environmental restrictions set in place, be it on the state level or the FSP community, to limit mining prospects?

Sorry, I cannot answer your questions.


I bet you would have more luck if you reposted your questions over on the Free State Project Forums (http://forum.freestateproject.org/) or NH Liberty Alliance Forums (http://www.nhliberty.org/forum/).

:)

[fedup100]

We might as well all go, then it will be a lot easier on the pigs when it is round up time. :o

[Libertarian Ideals]

We might as well all go, then it will be a lot easier on the pigs when it is round up time. :o

The Free Stater's here won't give up easily. Many Free Stater's are armed and won't drop their guns when the Fed's walk in. NH's Constitution also protects the Right of Revolution. (The world's only Constitution which explicitly protects this right, if I'm not mistaken.)

[fedup100]

The Free Stater's here won't give up easily. Many Free Stater's are armed and won't drop their guns when the Fed's walk in. NH's Constitution also protects the Right of Revolution. (The world's only Constitution which explicitly protects this right, if I'm not mistaken.)

uh huh. I seriously doubt their passion for freedom after the primaries.

[porcupine]

We might as well all go, then it will be a lot easier on the pigs when it is round up time. :o

Some of us are hoping to shape the future instead of submitting to it. We can't do that in our current form. You can't start a fire when the coals are spread out and separate. You need to put the coals close together to build a fire that will spread.

[fedup100]

Some of us are hoping to shape the future instead of submitting to it. We can't do that in our current form. You can't start a fire when the coals are spread out and separate. You need to put the coals close together to build a fire that will spread.

.....my point Xactly. This would then make it much easier to hold all our feet to the fire and watch it spread up the crack of all our asses! :mad:

[Libertarian Ideals]

uh huh. I seriously doubt their passion fro freedom after the primaries.

When I use the word "Free Staters," I am referring to Free State Project members.

And you would be hard pressed to find any majority in any state who are prepared to stand up for their rights when the Feds come busting into their houses. Also, percentage of Ron Paul votes in a primary is not the only thing to look at when detirmining a state's freedom. I would also recommend looking at this state comparison website: (http://fsp.statecomparison.com/)

[porcupine]

.....my point Xactly. This would then make it much easier to hold all our feet to the fire and watch it spread up the crack of all our asses! :mad:

Well, we'll be fighting and winning the fight for freedom here. Let me know if freedom comes to you while your cowering in your house in front of your computer hoping the feds don't come after you. There's always some risk in standing up for what's right. We've accepted it and moved on. It's worth it for a chance that we can achieve liberty in our lifetime.

[fedup100]

Well, we'll be fighting and winning the fight for freedom here. Let me know if freedom comes to you while your cowering in your house in front of your computer hoping the feds don't come after you.

No guys, you are right to push this project, but I prefer Montana. I think we need several strong holds.

[Natalie]

I had very high expectations for New Hampshire before I actually went there for the primary. I knew about the free state project, and their state motto is "Live Free or Die." In my mind I pictured NH as this libertarian haven. Live or Die my butt! Ron Paul got like 7% there. All the voters turned out for Barack. I guess it's not such a free state after all.

I was very disappointed by NH.

[porcupine]

No guys, you are right to push this project, but I prefer Montana. I think we need several strong holds.

I think you're right. There's also http://www.freestatewyoming.com/ if Montana doesn't work out for you for some reason.

[porcupine]

I had very high expectations for New Hampshire before I actually went there for the primary. I knew about the free state project, and their state motto is "Live Free or Die." In my mind I pictured NH as this libertarian haven. Live or Die my butt! Ron Paul got like 7% there. All the voters turned out for Barack. I guess it's not such a free state after all.

I was very disappointed by NH.

Ron Paul got 8%, which is his 3rd best showing in a primary (and considering that there were something like 22 candidates at that time, 8% ain't bad. His best showing was PA (and by that time it was easier to get higher percentages because there were only 4 candidates. PA is NOT a free state by any stretch...which shows how bad of a metric Ron Paul votes are in deciding how free a state really is).

No, New Hampshire isn't a libertarian haven. No such place exists. NH is one of the most - if not the most - free states in the country and is the place where concentrated liberty activism can make the most difference.

Also, we're not focusing on national politics much. It's a lost cause at this point.

[Leroy_Jenkems]

No guys, you are right to push this project, but I prefer Montana. I think we need several strong holds.

Absolutely. Plus, the mountains offer better hideouts. ;)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_West_Alliance
http://www.montana-alliance-for-liberty.org/

[torchbearer]

i'm a member, but have not moved because i can effect change easier in the area i am in because everyone knows me.

[porcupine]

i'm a member, but have not moved because i can effect change easier in the area i am in because everyone knows me.

Try to make it up to one of our events. Porcupine Freedom Festival in the summer and the Liberty Forum in the winter.

[torchbearer]

Try to make it up to one of our events. Porcupine Freedom Festival in the summer and the Liberty Forum in the winter.

I've spent a fortune attending rallys, marches, and conventions in 2007-2008.
I've incurred debts that i must repay. It isn't that easy just to attend.
Plus, I'm now saddled with obligations to the campaign for liberty.
And i'm sure i'm not the only one in this position.

[OferNave]

No, New Hampshire isn't a libertarian haven. No such place exists. NH is one of the most - if not the most - free states in the country and is the place where concentrated liberty activism can make the most difference.

Also, we're not focusing on national politics much. It's a lost cause at this point.

Bingo.

If anyone's curious, I suggest you spend a few hours browsing random videos here - the channel of our endearing, tireless, guerilla news videographer, Dave Ridley:

http://www.youtube.com/RidleyReport

That will give you a first person taste of what it's like to be here. I'm telling you, there's nothing like it anywhere else.

[OferNave]

I've spent a fortune attending rallys, marches, and conventions in 2007-2008.
I've incurred debts that i must repay. It isn't that easy just to attend.
Plus, I'm now saddled with obligations to the campaign for liberty.
And i'm sure i'm not the only one in this position.

I sympathize. I would still recommend that you try to attendone of the FSP events as soon as it's convenient for you if you are at all on the fence about wanting to make the move someday.

If you're already sold, but it's just not time yet, then keep kicking ass and taking names in LA. When your work there is done, or you've decided that your immediate personal liberty is too important to put off any longer, we'll be waiting for you.

And don't worry about having to start over. I promise you you'll know three hundred people in three months.

[TastyWheat]

Legislators get paid $100 a year? Did I read that right? How does it help when only the rich can afford to serve? I could understand a living wage but that's not even minimum wage. Does the legislator only meet on the weekends?

[Micah Dardar]

I think you're right. There's also http://www.freestatewyoming.com/ if Montana doesn't work out for you for some reason.

Wyoming is boring to the max

[porcupine]

Legislators get paid $100 a year? Did I read that right? How does it help when only the rich can afford to serve? I could understand a living wage but that's not even minimum wage. Does the legislator only meet on the weekends?

No it's not a "living wage" because legislating is not their job. In New Hampshire, unlike in most other states, being in the legislature is volunteer work, not a full time job. Our legislatures have real jobs so that they stay grounded in reality. They also can't afford to spend too much time passing laws, and we like that too. That's how it was in the early days of America and it's still like that in the Free State. It also creates a good system of self-imposed term limits because our legislatures don't make careers out of the job.

[porcupine]

Wyoming is boring to the max

We're having a helluva lot of fun in New Hampshire!

For instance, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0hZnpK7Pt8

[Micah Dardar]

We're having a helluva lot of fun in New Hampshire!

For instance, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0hZnpK7Pt8

Well, I'm sick of hurricanes, and my 4 year old wants to live in the snow. Do you know where I could get a job up there with a B.S. in Biology with a minor in Chemistry? I definitely could not go there unless I have a job lined up.

[OferNave]

Well, I'm sick of hurricanes, and my 4 year old wants to live in the snow. Do you know where I could get a job up there with a B.S. in Biology with a minor in Chemistry? I definitely could not go there unless I have a job lined up.

Well, I'd obviously try the colleges first. University of New Hampshire and Dartmouth are the big ones.

I know a geneticist who used to work at Dartmouth. If you private message me, I'll forward you his email address.

Other than that, I would suggest you hunt for a job in the usual way. Monster.com, craigslist, nhjobs.com, jobsinnh.com, and of course, the FSP site itself (and other NH pro-liberty forums, like nhfree.com).

[OferNave]

Legislators get paid $100 a year? Did I read that right? How does it help when only the rich can afford to serve? I could understand a living wage but that's not even minimum wage. Does the legislator only meet on the weekends?

Well, if a candidate you like can't afford to spend the time away from their normal job, you are of course free to subsidize that person out of your own pocket. :) However, rest assured that money will not be taken from our taxpayers at gun point to compensate elected officials for passing laws against us. That's an insult we do not allow to be added to injury.

I'd make it $0/year if I could, but $100 is so small already that it's silly to spend time on it while there are more important things to do.

[scandinaviany3]

should be moving to like SC, MT, WA, OR, NV, CO, ID, ND, MN

[TastyWheat]

No it's not a "living wage" because legislating is not their job. In New Hampshire, unlike in most other states, being in the legislature is volunteer work, not a full time job. Our legislatures have real jobs so that they stay grounded in reality. They also can't afford to spend too much time passing laws, and we like that too. That's how it was in the early days of America and it's still like that in the Free State. It also creates a good system of self-imposed term limits because our legislatures don't make careers out of the job.
That makes sense then. I would agree that the less they do the better off we are, but it's typical for an elected position to be "full time" so that's where I was confused.

[Anti Federalist]

@Brian. How much to do you know about the project? Your criticisms appear quite standard. I recommend you look around the main website and even participant's websites (like RidleyReport.com, Freestateblogs.net/blog/2 Here's some of the Project's victories, for instance: http://freestateblogs.net/victories06) before you say such things.



@All. In my opinion, here's one more good reason to move: :D

Ha, that's classic.

Hope the door doesn't hit 'em in the ass on the way out.

[speciallyblend]

Colorado vs NH hmmmm pretty much says it, i wouldn't move east of denver even if someone paid me to. last time i looked the co mtns already votes in majority on many issues free state talks about. sorry NH I was reborn in Colorado, rocky mtn high coloradoooooo;)

[constituent]

Ha, that's classic.

Hope the door doesn't hit 'em in the ass on the way out.

yea, once in california, folks should stay in california less they spread the taint.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

If only a small portion of Ron Paul supporters signed up we could get this done. Wouldn't you want to move if 20,000 other liberty activists were going to be there? Sadly it is looking like the federal government is beyond repair and I think concentrating our efforts in one state would have a much higher chance of success.


http://www.freestateproject.org

because I don't want to live in a community that will constantly nag "that's not libertarian" "what about the non aggression principle?" "you shouldn't use p2p software or torrentz" I'm better off with big brother :rolleyes:

[porcupine]

Well, I'm sick of hurricanes, and my 4 year old wants to live in the snow. Do you know where I could get a job up there with a B.S. in Biology with a minor in Chemistry? I definitely could not go there unless I have a job lined up.

We have a jobs and employment section of the free state project forum (http://forum.freestateproject.org/) and there are a lot of people who know the NH job market well there. I'd recommend checking it out. We also have a jobs section of the website to help people find jobs.

[porcupine]

should be moving to like SC, MT, WA, OR, NV, CO, ID, ND, MN

All the discussion and research leading up to the selection of the original 10 states and then the final vote on NH are archived on our website. I'll tell you right now that SC, WA, OR, NV, CO and MN are way too populous and were never considered on that alone.

[porcupine]

because I don't want to live in a community that will constantly nag "that's not libertarian" "what about the non aggression principle?" "you shouldn't use p2p software or torrentz" I'm better off with big brother :rolleyes:

Yikes...I wouldn't want to hang out with the libertarians you know.

[Dreepa]

$100 get you:

The NH House meets 3 days a week Jan -June.
Sometimes 4 days.
Voting is 'normally' on Wednesdays.
How busy depends on which committees you get assigned to.

If they aren't in session they usually can't do too much harm.

Lots of people signed up to be an FSP friend at the Rally for the Republic.
The turnout was great there.

[Leroy_Jenkems]

All the discussion and research leading up to the selection of the original 10 states and then the final vote on NH are archived on our website. I'll tell you right now that SC, WA, OR, NV, CO and MN are way too populous and were never considered on that alone.

With regard to SC - Nowhere in the South is suitable for a libertarian free state, NOWHERE. People here are way too gullible in swallowing the two-party, "lesser of two evils" BS hook, line, and sinker.

[porcupine]

Reviewing all the people who don't want to move to New Hampshire because of the cold or whatever, I thought of this quote:

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands, which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." ~~ Samuel Adams

[constituent]

there's a reason the brits lost at concord.


http://www.eventplan.co.uk/photos/Sheff03%20BD%20Redcoats%203%20large%20LoRes.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/59/British_Army_in_Concord_Detail.jpg/400px-British_Army_in_Concord_Detail.jpg

[me3]

there's a reason the brits lost at concord.

http://www.eventplan.co.uk/photos/Sheff03%20BD%20Redcoats%203%20large%20LoRes.jpg
The short guy in the middle?

[constituent]

The short guy in the middle?

*big-ass grin*

[porcupine]

the short guy in the middle?

lmao!!

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Yikes...I wouldn't want to hang out with the libertarians you know.

I am the only libertarian I know :D

[porcupine]

I am the only libertarian I know :D

Heh :D

A problem easily fixed by joining the Free State Project. We're nice too...at least most of us are ... I can't see anyone lecturing you about downloading music, like you had surmised earlier.

Anyway, on any given Tuesday Night, you can meet as many as 50 libertarian activists hanging out at Murphy's Taproom in Manchester. Some free staters get together to go shooting at one of member's private firing range that he built in his backyard (without the need to ask permission from the gov't I might add) and we have around 20 libertarians show up on any given Sunday. (Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Az-_fYRDkI) is a video of one of those Sunday events and Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPGqop9k5j4) is a video of them when they were building the range). There is literally an event like that almost every day of the week, so you wouldn't have too much trouble finding libertarian friends here.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Heh :D

A problem easily fixed by joining the Free State Project. We're nice too...at least most of us are ... I can't see anyone lecturing you about downloading music, like you had surmised earlier.

Anyway, on any given Tuesday Night, you can meet as many as 50 libertarian activists hanging out at Murphy's Taproom in Manchester. Some free staters get together to go shooting at one of member's private firing range that he built in his backyard (without the need to ask permission from the gov't I might add) and we have around 25 libertarians show up on any given Sunday. There is literally an event like that almost every day of the week, so you wouldn't have too much trouble finding libertarian friends here.

how much did you save or whatever to move to NH? I have money in the thousands, but I'm going to school and stuff at this time.

[porcupine]

how much did you save or whatever to move to NH? I have money in the thousands, but I'm going to school and stuff at this time.

First, I updated my post above with some videos if you're interested.

Hmmm...I think I saved about $1500 for the move here (it cost about $500 for the actual move, and then I gave myself a cushion for finding a job, which wasn't difficult). I transferred schools to move to NH. You can also rent a room in a house full of libertarians (we call them Porc Manors (http://www.porcmanor.com/)) and the prices are pretty cheap so that might help with the money and the libertarian friend problem. You can get a greater range of experience and advice at the FSP forum. (http://forum.freestateproject.org/)

Another option is, instead of transferring, to be a visiting student at a NH school.

Right after graduating school is a great time to move because you can get your first job in NH and make the move with little to no difficulty.

[jabrownie]

My dad mentioned something about a similar thing being attempted in South Carolina. Heard anything about it? The weather would be so much nicer there, it'd probably be easier to get people to go.

[porcupine]

My dad mentioned something about a similar thing being attempted in South Carolina. Heard anything about it? The weather would be so much nicer there, it'd probably be easier to get people to go.

Yeah, it's called Christian Exodus and is an effort to fundamentalist Christian Constitutionalists (think Chuck Baldwin types) to move to South Carolina. Unfortunately, they have not been very successful in getting people to move.

The thing is that South Carolina's population is just too large to make a big difference.

[erika]

If only a small portion of Ron Paul supporters signed up we could get this done. Wouldn't you want to move if 20,000 other liberty activists were going to be there? Sadly it is looking like the federal government is beyond repair and I think concentrating our efforts in one state would have a much higher chance of success.


http://www.freestateproject.org

Let's start one in california!

[porcupine]

Let's start one in california!

California is a lost cause. Too big, too socialist. There already is "one" in California. It's called the Libertarian Party and it's failing miserably. A new strategy is needed if you want your efforts to mean something and bring about real, noticeable change.

See this blog post (http://freestateblogs.net/node/145) for more info on the California Liberty Movement

[erika]

California is a lost cause. Too big, too socialist. There already is "one" in California. It's called the Libertarian Party and it's failing miserably. A new strategy is needed if you want your efforts to mean something and bring about real, noticeable change.

See this blog post (http://freestateblogs.net/node/145) for more info on the California Liberty Movement

What do you suggest other than moving? I don't want to move to a cold climate state and be around east coasters(for many reasons).

If anyone else wants to start a ca. group, I think it can be done.

[Jeremy]

Some of you need to stop "requesting" other states. They spent a great deal of time deciding on and voting on which state it will be and New Hampshire won for the right reasons.


If anyone else wants to start a ca. group, I think it can be done.

CA would be one of the wort states to do this in.................. wow....

[erika]

Some of you need to stop "requesting" other states. They spent a great deal of time deciding on and voting on which state it will be and New Hampshire won for the right reasons.



CA would be one of the wort states to do this in.................. wow....

I never got to vote.

I think you're wrong about ca. There is a lot of activism here that could be put in a better direction.

[parke]

Only in the summer. DC for me.

Sounds like that would be the best place for freedom loving people to go to...:eek:

[Jeremy]

I never got to vote.

I think you're wrong about ca. There is a lot of activism here that could be put in a better direction.

You already live there? That would explain why you mentioned it then, hm? :o The point of the Free State Project is to move with tons of other people to the chosen state. That state is NH. I don't understand what you mean when you asked for some group to join. I'm sure you can join a CFL group there, but.... there's not a free state project in every state.... it's NH, and that's it!

CA is also one of the worse states and was probably not even nominated for the vote (I wasn't around back then either). What you have there is increasing government and you can't get anything done in such a huge area. I find it hard to believe that you consider it one of the best whileI consider it one of the worse. But hey, my state is horrible too. The only good thing about it is that it's small... but that's not near enough (CT).

[porcupine]

I never got to vote.

I think you're wrong about ca. There is a lot of activism here that could be put in a better direction.

If you've lived in California for awhile, you might not realize how truly unfree you are in California.


I don't want to move to a cold climate state and be around east coasters(for many reasons).


May your chains rest lightly upon you. A person who wouldn't trade a bit of cold for more freedom isn't the type of person that is moving anyway.



If anyone else wants to start a ca. group, I think it can be done.

Once again, there are already plenty of groups working for liberty in California, the Libertarian party not the least of them. Their effect has been almost nil. It will continue to be worthless...but feel free to try to pour your heart into doing the same thing and expecting different results.


Look, you're saying "hey, let's start a group like this where I do the least amount of effort and everyone ELSE moves to where I am." WE on the other hand have moved from our own homes and made the sacrifices to move to the state where are efforts can actually mean something. If you aren't willing to move to a freer state where 600+ liberty activists have already migrated to, what makes you think others will migrate to a less free state where their efforts will be less effective and they'll be drowned out by CA's massive population?

[erika]

You already live there? That would explain why you mentioned it then, hm? :o The point of the Free State Project is to move with tons of other people to the chosen state. That state is NH. I don't understand what you mean when you asked for some group to join. I'm sure you can join a CFL group there, but.... there's not a free state project in every state.... it's NH, and that's it!

CA is also one of the worse states and was probably not even nominated for the vote (I wasn't around back then either). What you have there is increasing government and you can't get anything done in such a huge area. I find it hard to believe that you consider it one of the best whileI consider it one of the worse. But hey, my state is horrible too. The only good thing about it is that it's small... but that's not near enough (CT).

I think every state should have something like this, not just NH.

That was my point.

[porcupine]

You already live there? That would explain why you mentioned it then, hm? :o The point of the Free State Project is to move with tons of other people to the chosen state.

Yeah, people always suggest their own states because it wouldn't require them to put any effort forward or move outside their comfort zones. I don't really have time for such people.

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands, which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." – Sam Adams

[porcupine]

I think every state should have something like this, not just NH.

That was my point.

They already do. It's the libertarian party.

Perhaps you don't understand the idea of CONCENTRATING liberty activism. By definition, you can't have that in every state.

[erika]

They already do. It's the libertarian party.

Perhaps you don't understand the idea of CONCENTRATING liberty activism. By definition, you can't have that in every state.

That's not what I meant. The libertarian party will never be a success out here with the border issue.

Perhaps YOU don't understand the idea that not everyone wants to live in your shithole bad weather of a state.

[Micah Dardar]

That's not what I meant. The libertarian party will never be a success out here with the border issue.

Perhaps YOU don't understand the idea that not everyone wants to live in your shithole bad weather of a state.

Forest fires? Snow? Earthquakes? Hurricanes? Tornadoes? I guess that "shithole" is relative to what you are used to.

[erika]

Forest fires? Snow? Earthquakes? Hurricanes? Tornadoes? I guess that "shithole" is relative to what you are used to.

All rarities and not a common thing. I would imagine that NH has Forest fires, Snow, hurricane effect, and massive cold storms.

We don't have tornados. A funnel cloud here and there, nothing big time. Very rare.

Earthquakes only if you're in a bad area with a nasty fault line. I'm not.

A lot of ugly people on the east coast too. I'll pass.

[spacehabitats]

Well, for one thing, I have children that I would like to see grow up in a country that still has some semblance of liberty.

To do that most of the people with some clue about what's going on have to stay dispersed throughout the nation and convert/educate more citizens.

We need to be a "light unto the world".

[JosephTheLibertarian]

That's not what I meant. The libertarian party will never be a success out here with the border issue.

Perhaps YOU don't understand the idea that not everyone wants to live in your shithole bad weather of a state.

Well, there are many pro-Borders LP members. I know Bob Barr is anti-illegal immigration.

[Leroy_Jenkems]

A lot of ugly people on the east coast too. I'll pass.

I'm sure your at least half-kidding. Whether people up there are ugly or not, a petty and shallow thing such as vanity shouldn't be the litmus test of seeking a place to live in more liberty.

One thing I would argue with you against setting up such a project in CA - the demographics of CA (SoCal especially) are rapidly changing, are they not? Do the majority of these people shun government aid, benefits, programs, etc?

You can be damn sure that in a state like CA where taxes on the state level for various absurdities are MUCH higher than states like NH, WY, MT, or ID, if you set up a concentration of people who will resist the remittance of these taxes to the state, the state will be coming after you a lot faster than one with lower taxes. They'll miss that tax money a lot more sorely than the states which don't have as big of an operating budget.

Just be ready to go Rambo in the redwoods. ;)

[porcupine]

The libertarian party will never be a success out here

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!



Perhaps YOU don't understand the idea that not everyone wants to live in your shithole bad weather of a state.

Well, as I said, may your chains rest lightly upon you. It was a lot colder at Valley Forge. Liberty is worth it.

[porcupine]

Well, for one thing, I have children that I would like to see grow up in a country that still has some semblance of liberty.

To do that most of the people with some clue about what's going on have to stay dispersed throughout the nation and convert/educate more citizens.

We need to be a "light unto the world".

Good luck with that! Hope all your hard work pays off for you in a better way than it has for others in the last 30-50 years who got nothing in return.

The definition of insanity...

OH! And here's another reason to leave California: REAL ID IS NOW LAW IN CA (http://www.rense.com/general83/AlertRealID0001.pdf). Enjoy the weather.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Good luck with that! Hope all your hard work pays off for you in a better way than it has for others in the last 30-50 years who got nothing in return.

The definition of insanity...

OH! And here's another reason to leave California: REAL ID IS NOW LAW IN CA (http://www.rense.com/general83/AlertRealID0001.pdf). Enjoy the weather.

I have a real id. It's called a driver's license :rolleyes:

lol

[FSP-Rebel]

I think every state should have something like this, not just NH.

That was my point.
I understand where you're coming from on the whole weather deal and I'm sure if the cards were stacked in favor of a warmer state that it would've been chosen. Unfortunately right off the bat, warmer states have higher levels of crime--and CA's gun control doesn't help its cause.

Every state should be Free, but that's not possible at this time. NH was chosen for many reasons and would be the easiest to achieve "Liberty in our Lifetime" which is the FSP motto. From there, we can show the rest of the country, and maybe the world, that liberty can work. The one thing that us liberty lovers can't mess with is a state that is thoroughly populated with statists. Sorry, but CA doesn't have a streak of libertarianism or traditional conservatism.

My advice to those who aren't fans of the FSP (for whatever reason) or are fence-sitters is to sign the statement of intent on the FSP website and then relax and watch the effects that the Project is having on NH. It doesn't cost anyone anything to signup nor is anyone going to hunt you or yours down to make you fulfill your future obligation. Once the FSP is in 4th gear and achieves 20,000 signers (though a re-assessment of the numbers, based on the current activism rate, has signified that only 2000-3000 movers is necessary for real change) there is a 5-yr window in which folks have the time to make the move. The bottom-line here is, if you knew ~20,000 other pro-liberty folks were moving to NH for freedom and you can tangibly view that freedom, why would you not want to move and enjoy the freedom with your loved ones. My view on freedom is that I owe it to posterity as a moral duty (everyone has there own reasons) and so I plan to be an early mover (this next spring once I graduate college) to help facilitate the freedom atmosphere and consequentially promote it to the rest of the yearning souls that desire it.

If nothing else, take a vacation to NH and see what it's all about. If you do, make sure to mention your trip on forum.freestateproject.org
and folks will meet you for drinks and/or whatever. If you meet these activists and decide that what they offer isn't what you're looking for, then freedom is not your thing--so to speak...

Again, if you're interested enough to sign up, do so this week as the hosts from Free Talk Live are donating $10 for each FSP signup to the St. Jude's Children Fund. Let's help unfortunate children while finalizing the FSP. See you in the Free State:)

[FSP-Rebel]

And just as a side note, 147/161 pro-liberty candidates made it through their primaries this last tuesday in NH. Does your state have that good of a casualty rate? Instead of the Prez election, pay attention to how many of those NH candidates get elected and then ask yourself if you really want freedom.

[porcupine]

I have a real id. It's called a driver's license :rolleyes:

lol

I don't. I live in New Hampshire.

[Libertarian Ideals]

The Free State Project: The Real Deal
by Sunni Maravillosa

I remember hearing about the Free State Project back when Jason Sorens was recruiting feedback for the idea. Having heard of plenty of other "let's form our own group" schemes, I smiled, nodded, and pushed the delete key, and expected to hear maybe one or two more things about the project at most. I'm delighted to say that I was wrong.

I am not a porcupine -- that's the animal FSPers have fittingly chosen as their mascot. Thus, I'm not an expert or an insider. My interest in the FSP lies in two areas: 1) some people whose opinions I respect and who are very dear to me have signed on; and 2) I am interested in seeing "liberty in my lifetime", which is what the FSP intends to achieve. After grilling my friends about the FSP at length, and making email acquaintance with one of their officers and proceeding to put that individual through a similar wringer, I'm satisfied that the FSP is the real deal. What convinced me wasn't any report or argument from my friends -- it was attending an FSP event and seeing firsthand the kinds of individuals who'll be involved in this project when it comes to fruition... (Read more (http://billstclair.com/DoingFreedom/gen/0603/fspgwc.html))




My advice to those who aren't fans of the FSP (for whatever reason) or are fence-sitters is to sign the statement of intent on the FSP website and then relax and watch the effects that the Project is having on NH.

I disagree. Only if you are serious should you sign the statement of intent. But most movers become a Friend of the FSP before they commit and I encourage you fence-sitters to do as well.

You can do that here: http://www.freestateproject.org/user/register?type=Friend&tabs=hidden

You get periodical emails and a monthly newsletter letting you know what's happening in NH.

[porcupine]

And just as a side note, 147/161 pro-liberty candidates made it through their primaries this last tuesday in NH. Does your state have that good of a casualty rate? Instead of the Prez election, pay attention to how many of those NH candidates get elected and then ask yourself if you really want freedom.

The number is actually 153/165 or 92%!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF-5D4U_NDc

[FSP-Rebel]

The number is actually 153/165 or 92%!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF-5D4U_NDc
Even Better!:cool:

[FSP-Rebel]

Here's an analogy that explains the Free State Project strategy well: imagine liberty lovers as warm pieces of coal, when the coal is spread out it slowly cools, but when it is in one place it warms each other up and things around it.

The Free State Project is an effort to use the multiplying effect: 2 people working together is equal to 4 people working alone. Imagine what the possibilities are when liberty activists can back each other up in the hundreds.




I disagree. Only if you are serious should you sign the statement of intent. But most movers become a Friend of the FSP before they commit and I encourage you fence-sitters to do as well.

Pound for pound, I would say that people become more serious once they've signed up. And once signed up, people will be more inclined to stay up to date on the goings-on in NH via the forum and such instead of forgetting about it. Seems to me that the SOI would fit most all RP supporters or liberty lovers in general. Either way, rock on!;)

[scandinaviany3]

the west is where the exodus needs to happen not the northeast..more votes, farther from washington, much better position all the way around to be in:p

[OferNave]

I was born and raised in Los Angeles, home of the perpetual sunny day. I moved to NH a year ago, and haven't looked back. I can't imagine leaving now.

Really, will you accept significantly less freedom for lack of a decent winter coat and some snow tires?

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I don't. I live in New Hampshire.

You don't need a driver's license in NH?

[porcupine]

You don't need a driver's license in NH?

My driver's license in New Hampshire doesn't put me into a national database and doesn't allow biometrics to be part of getting the license, which differentiates it from Real ID. Also, the state can't keep your social security # or photo in their state database without your permission, by state law.

[porcupine]

the west is where the exodus needs to happen not the northeast..more votes, farther from washington, much better position all the way around to be in:p

There's a smaller and much less active movement out West: http://www.freestatewyoming.com/

Check it out. The important thing is that we stop scattering our efforts. People working together are exponentially more effective than people working separately.

[Leroy_Jenkems]

The following states should be removed from consideration of setting up a Free State Community, indefinitely:

California
New York
Florida
Michigan
New Jersey
Pennsylvania


Did I leave any out?:o

[Micah Dardar]

The following states should be removed from consideration of setting up a Free State Community, indefinitely:

California
New York
Florida
Michigan
New Jersey
Pennsylvania


Did I leave any out?:o
Texas
Florida x2
Indiana
Virginia
Kentucky

[porcupine]

The following states should be removed from consideration of setting up a Free State Community, indefinitely:

California
New York
Florida
Michigan
New Jersey
Pennsylvania


Did I leave any out?:o

Massachusetts
Illinois
Wisconsin
Maryland

I think that rounds out the ten WORST states for a free state movement.

I think that there are only about 10 states where the idea would even have a theoretical shot, all of them being very low population states (New Hampshire is the only one with a good job market, which is very important when you get into the practical aspects of getting people to move).

One thing I've learned from working on this project, though, is that you need at least 20 committed people willing to work without pay or praise for years on end to even get an organization like this off the ground. The task is just so monumental, it's hard to sustain. That's why 5 free state movements have failed in just the last 5 years.

I don't know that the liberty movement is big enough to sustain more than one free state movement (though I hope it's big enough to sustain two because I think the folks in Free State Wyoming are good people and their project is a good alternative, but I see them going the way of the Free West Alliance, North to the Future, and all the other failed free state movements.

If we in the Free State Project (http://freestateproject.org/) succeed, we will truly have made a permanent place for ourselves in history. Speaking of which, we reached 572 movers today! :D Our signup rate has been increasing lately and the number of movers has been increasing too. I'm very optimistic, but it's going to take some time. In the meantime, I'm having a blast! :D

[Flash]

And just as a side note, 147/161 pro-liberty candidates made it through their primaries this last tuesday in NH. Does your state have that good of a casualty rate? Instead of the Prez election, pay attention to how many of those NH candidates get elected and then ask yourself if you really want freedom.


I'm curious are these Libertarians or Republicans?

[porcupine]

I'm curious are these Libertarians or Republicans?

Mostly Republicans, some Democrats. They're on major party ballot lines so a good amount of them should get elected.

[Scotso]

I'm on their mailing list, but I wouldn't move there. Toooooo coooooold!

[porcupine]

I'm on their mailing list, but I wouldn't move there. Toooooo coooooold!

That's good. I recommend that anyone who doesn't want to commit to move should still sign up as a friend of the project (http://freestateproject.org/user/register?type=Friend&tabs=hidden) and get the newsletter.

[runamuck]

I was part of a "Free State Project" long before such a thing existed as I've been living in NH my whole life and fighting to keep our state true to its origins!

[Leroy_Jenkems]

Massachusetts
Illinois
Wisconsin
Maryland

I think that rounds out the ten WORST states for a free state movement.
...
I don't know that the liberty movement is big enough to sustain more than one free state movement (though I hope it's big enough to sustain two because I think the folks in Free State Wyoming are good people and their project is a good alternative, but I see them going the way of the Free West Alliance, North to the Future, and all the other failed free state movements.

If we in the Free State Project (http://freestateproject.org/) succeed, we will truly have made a permanent place for ourselves in history. Speaking of which, we reached 572 movers today! :D Our signup rate has been increasing lately and the number of movers has been increasing too. I'm very optimistic, but it's going to take some time. In the meantime, I'm having a blast! :D

Aww damn, Virginia was an easy one, how'd I miss that?! :o

Porcupine, do you have much contact with anybody in the Free State WY project? Do you have knowledge of the undoings of the other orgs you mentioned (FWA, NttF)? I personally like the Montana-Wyoming part of the country, so I'd like to gain any knowledge of the history of Freedom projects enacted out there.

Congratulations on achieving the current tally! You all are truly the leaders. Whoever the unnamed souls are who devoted years without pay and recognition to this project are great human beings in the most sacred sentiment. God bless all of them.

[FTL_Ian]

That's not what I meant. The libertarian party will never be a success out here with the border issue.

Perhaps YOU don't understand the idea that not everyone wants to live in your shithole bad weather of a state.

Translation: You are anti-freedom-to-travel.

Please stay out of NH, as we will be seceding and opening the "borders".

[FTL_Ian]

You don't need a driver's license in NH?

Nope:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6Up_wnqrKY

[Josh_LA]

Translation: You are anti-freedom-to-travel.

Please stay out of NH, as we will be seceding and opening the "borders".

So ummm, what good is seceding if you don't have borders to guard against tyranny?

[porcupine]

Porcupine, do you have much contact with anybody in the Free State WY project? Do you have knowledge of the undoings of the other orgs you mentioned (FWA, NttF)? I personally like the Montana-Wyoming part of the country, so I'd like to gain any knowledge of the history of Freedom projects enacted out there.


I don't personally know any of the people in Free State Wyoming, but I agree with the idea of free state movements and concentrated liberty activism so I try to support them. The downsides with Wyoming are that the FSW is not very active and has very few movers. I also have not seen any evidence of activism once they get there. To me, New Hampshire is far superior to Wyoming in those respects...If you watch our home page, we have people moving and signing up daily. We also have a news feed on the main page that continuously shows what we're up to. The FSW on the other hand hasn't even updated their site in 18 months. However, for someone who can't/won't move to New Hampshire, I'd advise them to at least join the FSW and pitch their efforts in with the good folks in FSW. To learn more, check out the forums on http://www.freestatewyoming.com/

I really don't know anything about the other various failed free state movements. The impression I got of them were that they were very much like all the people on this thread. They wanted the benefits of the Free State Project without personally being willing to undergo the sacrifices so they just said "hey everybody, come move to where I LIVE!" Of course, no one came and they fizzled quickly. The thing that differentiates the Free State Project is that none of the founders or the board of directors of the Project are from New Hampshire. They all believed in it enough to move from where they lived.



Congratulations on achieving the current tally! You all are truly the leaders. Whoever the unnamed souls are who devoted years without pay and recognition to this project are great human beings in the most sacred sentiment. God bless all of them.

We're very excited with our recent spurt of growth. Much of it is Ron Paul activists who heard about the Project at the DC March or MN Convention. And yes, we've got some of the most amazing people here. They're the type of people who get things done and don't worry about who gets the credit. I'm telling you, the moving process really sifts the doers from the talkers and makes sure the people who get here are grade-A activists. I'm just honored to be part of this.

[FTL_Ian]

So ummm, what good is seceding if you don't have borders to guard against tyranny?

Gun freedom should handle it. Why do you think Hitler chose not to invade Switzerland?

In case you haven't noticed, the tyranny is already here. Beefing up "border security" only increases the size and intrusiveness of the police state.

If you try to control the lives of others, you will only end up finding yourself controlled.

Please consider trying true liberty and allow your neighbors to be free.

[porcupine]

So ummm, what good is seceding if you don't have borders to guard against tyranny?

Not all FSP members want open borders Josh. It's a varied group so keep that in mind. Ian is a very convincing guy though if you listen to his show :)

It's important for people who don't like a particular policy position of one of the FSP members to remember that we have 9,000 members...we're all very different, but we all want liberty.

[FTL_Ian]

For those who claim to support liberty and at the same time advocate restricting people from moving here, consider this:

"Borders" are another example of the tragedy of the commons. All property should be privately owned, and each property owner should be free to decide what rules apply to his land. If you want to build a big fence to keep people out, you can.

Just don't tell me what to do with MY property.

If I want people born on other plots of land around the world to be able to come live and/or work on my property, who are you to say otherwise?

Do you own me?

Do you own my property?

[mport1]

It's important for people who don't like a particular policy position of one of the FSP members to remember that we have 9,000 members...we're all very different, but we all want liberty.

+1

[Libertarian Ideals]

For those who claim to support liberty and at the same time advocate restricting people from moving here, consider this:

"Borders" are another example of the tragedy of the commons. All property should be privately owned, and each property owner should be free to decide what rules apply to his land. If you want to build a big fence to keep people out, you can.

Just don't tell me what to do with MY property.

If I want people born on other plots of land around the world to be able to come live and/or work on my property, who are you to say otherwise?

Do you own me?

Do you own my property?

Ahh, that's a nice way to put it. :)

[Josh_LA]

Gun freedom should handle it. Why do you think Hitler chose not to invade Switzerland?

In case you haven't noticed, the tyranny is already here. Beefing up "border security" only increases the size and intrusiveness of the police state.

If you try to control the lives of others, you will only end up finding yourself controlled.

Please consider trying true liberty and allow your neighbors to be free.

Ok great!

So by your logic, we canuse guns to guard against Mexican invasion and NAU mergers (if we see them as tyrannical). So much for your "open borders", just admit it, you're not against borders, you're against borders when the government does it, you have no problem with vigilante violence to enforce borders. Of course you need border enforcement of some sort, or you can't stop the federal government from sending troops to impose their unwanted rules, or communists from participating in your community to vote your system into bankruptcy (oh yes, I know you're going to say, that's either not a bad thing or by that time you'd have figured out how to deal with it)

Duh, of course I've noticed tyranny is already here. So we should allow tyrants to be free to F- us, right? Or should we use force to fight them? There is no "police state" if the police is democratically or community owned (like Minutemen and Neighborhood Watch).

Yes I agree, if you control others you'll end up being controlled, that's why it's important to be reactionary and keep people interactive ,rather than let live when you know something's wrong!

[Josh_LA]

For those who claim to support liberty and at the same time advocate restricting people from moving here, consider this:

"Borders" are another example of the tragedy of the commons. All property should be privately owned, and each property owner should be free to decide what rules apply to his land. If you want to build a big fence to keep people out, you can.

Just don't tell me what to do with MY property.

If I want people born on other plots of land around the world to be able to come live and/or work on my property, who are you to say otherwise?

Do you own me?

Do you own my property?

Yes Ian, I agree, if people were hired and wanted here, WHO ARE WE TO SAY OTHERWISE.

But if they are NOT hired, NOT welcome, who are we NOT to say we can kick them out for the reasons we feel like?

And what's wrong with a community coming together and saying collectively, we share a common border, so collectively, we can keep out unwelcome guests (call it a country or a city or a street, people do it all the time).

[constituent]

And what's wrong with a community coming together and saying collectively, we share a common border, so collectively, we can keep out unwelcome guests (call it a country or a city or a street, people do it all the time).

Because communities are imagined....


I'll give a little....


transient at best.