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Sally08
08-20-2008, 12:51 PM
Please see http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1621772.

Unfortunately, I didn't get any answer to my OP questions.

MODS: If there are no replies to this, it can be deleted at some point. If there are replies, it can be moved, if appropriate.

What are regulations regarding placing a stop payment on a cashier's check?

A Washington Mutual (WAMU) customer gave me a WAMU cashier's check for a security deposit on a rental unit to move in the following day. Within hours after formal walkthrough, key turnover, and security deposit/first month's rent payments by two cashier's checks, that WAMU customer wanted her money back from those two cashier's checks the next day.

Per my own bank manager's involvement, that WAMU customer was allowed to stop payment on the security deposit cashier's check based on a phone call about problems not noted (let alone documented as a "ding list") during the walkthrough of the vacant property.

Yet, my smaller bank indicates that a stop payment on a cashier's check is only allowed if the person signs an affidavit that the cashier's check was lost, stolen, or destroyed, which the WAMU customer obviously knew was not the case or she would not have been requesting via e-mail the return of her two payments to me the next day.

Due to my bank manager's intervention, the cashier's check was honored the second time, so at this point I have no "damages".

Needless to say, I will never accept payment of a cashier's check from WAMU again! And here I thought that cashier's checks were "cash equivalents"-

However, is there any place I can report the issue, since it undermines the credibility of legitimate cashier's checks for payments?

My understanding is that FDIC regulates smaller banks, while OCC likely regulates Washington Mutual (WAMU).

Sally08
08-22-2008, 06:30 AM
I received the reply below from yet another Washington Mutual representative.

Is it legal for Washington Mutual to stop payment on a cashier's check based on a *phone call*?

Is it legal for Washington Mutual to stop payment on a cashier's check for any reason other than its being lost, stolen, or destroyed?

If not, does anyone know how/where I can report this?

I do completely understand why you are frustrated. It is an official check and the funds are guaranteed. Unfortunately, even though it may be an official check we still have to offer the option for a stop payment on the check. On a regular paper check the customer can remove the funds from the account and the check would be returned. With official checks the customer can not remove the funds because the funds are on hold for that official check. At this time they can make a stop payment at the branch or on the telephone through integrated payment systems. I am truly sorry for this entire situation. Thank you so much and have a wonderful day.

-snip-
Customer Service Improvement

angelatc
08-22-2008, 09:14 AM
Please see http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1621772.

Unfortunately, I didn't get any answer to my OP questions.

MODS: If there are no replies to this, it can be deleted at some point. If there are replies, it can be moved, if appropriate.

What are regulations regarding placing a stop payment on a cashier's check?

A Washington Mutual (WAMU) customer gave me a WAMU cashier's check for a security deposit on a rental unit to move in the following day. Within hours after formal walkthrough, key turnover, and security deposit/first month's rent payments by two cashier's checks, that WAMU customer wanted her money back from those two cashier's checks the next day.

Per my own bank manager's involvement, that WAMU customer was allowed to stop payment on the security deposit cashier's check based on a phone call about problems not noted (let alone documented as a "ding list") during the walkthrough of the vacant property.

Yet, my smaller bank indicates that a stop payment on a cashier's check is only allowed if the person signs an affidavit that the cashier's check was lost, stolen, or destroyed, which the WAMU customer obviously knew was not the case or she would not have been requesting via e-mail the return of her two payments to me the next day.

Due to my bank manager's intervention, the cashier's check was honored the second time, so at this point I have no "damages".

Needless to say, I will never accept payment of a cashier's check from WAMU again! And here I thought that cashier's checks were "cash equivalents"-

However, is there any place I can report the issue, since it undermines the credibility of legitimate cashier's checks for payments?

My understanding is that FDIC regulates smaller banks, while OCC likely regulates Washington Mutual (WAMU).

No, the FDIC is the insurance arm. OCC is the regulatory arm. Next time demand a certified check, not a cashier's check. A cashier's check only guarantees that the funds are in the account. A certified check removes the funds from the remitter's account when the check is drawn.

Write to your state banking regulators to complain.

Sally08
08-22-2008, 11:52 AM
No, the FDIC is the insurance arm. OCC is the regulatory arm. Next time demand a certified check, not a cashier's check. A cashier's check only guarantees that the funds are in the account. A certified check removes the funds from the remitter's account when the check is drawn.

Write to your state banking regulators to complain.

Thanks for the mention of state banking regulators, although I would think stopping payments would be a federal regulation applicable to all states across the country.

I thought I used the phrase "certified check" in talking with one of the banking representatives and I thought I had been told that "certified check" and "cashier's check" were the same thing.

What is the difference in terms of reliability (obviously, totally forgeries are a totally different issue!)?

Is there a way to tell from the check copy I have which kind of WAMU check it is?

However, given the WAMU reply stating,

"On a regular paper check the customer can remove the funds from the account and the check would be returned. With official checks the customer can not remove the funds because the funds are on hold for that official check. At this time they can make a stop payment at the branch or on the telephone through integrated payment systems",

it would appear that "official check" applies to the check I had that *WAS STOPPED*, which presumably released the "hold on that official check", regardless of which type of WAMU check it was.

That is why I was/am so shocked that WAMU allowed the stop payment via a phone call.

Sally08
08-27-2008, 08:47 AM
Sure sounds like WAMU personnel made an *exception* that is specifically not allowed under any circumstances.

Apparently, he is still oblivious to the fact that the Check21 replacement of the stopped payment official check was redeposited on 8/11 and already cleared a day or two later.

Obviously, his reply, a week after the OP, was before he even did any research.

No wonder our banking institutions are in trouble:eek:

============
Subject: Customer Service Improvement
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:23:00 -0700
From: -snip-@wamu .net
To: -snip-

Hello -snip-,

We understand how frustrating this matter may be and want to help you resolve it as quickly as possible. Let me begin by making our policy regarding stop pay request on an official check clear. A stop payment may be placed only if an official check is lost, stolen, mutilated or destroyed. A stop payment cannot be placed on an official check if there is a dispute between the purchaser and the payee. No exceptions may be made to this policy. Official checks represent collected funds and are given and accepted in good faith by both parties. In addition, stop pay request on official checks may only be placed at the same branch where the official check was purchased. We are currently researching this issue to identify where the official check was purchased and whether a replacement may be issued. If you would like to speak with me directly regarding this issue, you may reach me at the number provided below. Please let me know if you have any questions.

-snip-

Customer Advocate II

Customer Service Improvement

Washington Mutual

20855 Stone Oak Pkwy 01601SATX

San Antonio, TX 78258

-snip-

angelatc
08-27-2008, 09:35 AM
Thanks for the mention of state banking regulators, although I would think stopping payments would be a federal regulation applicable to all states across the country.

I thought I used the phrase "certified check" in talking with one of the banking representatives and I thought I had been told that "certified check" and "cashier's check" were the same thing.

What is the difference in terms of reliability (obviously, totally forgeries are a totally different issue!)?

Is there a way to tell from the check copy I have which kind of WAMU check it is?

However, given the WAMU reply stating,

"On a regular paper check the customer can remove the funds from the account and the check would be returned. With official checks the customer can not remove the funds because the funds are on hold for that official check. At this time they can make a stop payment at the branch or on the telephone through integrated payment systems",

it would appear that "official check" applies to the check I had that *WAS STOPPED*, which presumably released the "hold on that official check", regardless of which type of WAMU check it was.

That is why I was/am so shocked that WAMU allowed the stop payment via a phone call.

Basically, the difference between a certified check and a cashiers check is that a certified check is drawn on bank funds. The customer has already had the funds removed from his/her account. A cashier's check means the funds are still in the customer's account, although the bank has placed a "hold" on the funds.

Not knowing what state you're in...I think most banking regulations are contained in the Uniform Commercial Code. If your state has adopted the most recent version, then:


A bank that wrongfully refuses payment of a cashier’s check based on a request from its customer may be liable to the payee, in addition to the face amount of the check, for expenses and loss of interest and possible consequential damages. (UCC 3.411(b)).

So if you bounced checks because their check bounced, you can get all the fees back that you incurred, both from your bank and from the draftees bank.

I don't know WAMU's checks. My credit union's checks say either "cashier's check" or "Certified." Plus the cashier's checks are pretty "fun," red white and blue. The certified checks are official blue looking things.

John E
08-27-2008, 10:22 AM
On a side note, it sounds like this tenant will be a headache... document this and everything else. I suspect you will have future trouble with them.