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View Full Version : Ron Paul's stance on foreign espionage?




jmunjr
08-31-2007, 03:44 PM
I got into a small debate with a friend of mine (and frequent participant here) about Ron Paul and what role our government would play in foreign affairs if he gets into office.

My buddy thinks espionage during peacetime is out of the question with RP. I say he will authorize it, as it is part of our national defense. How else will we know what our enemies are planning? How will we know they are building nukes, chemical weapons, or other advanced technologies without infiltrating their borders & government?

I love Ron Paul, but if he thinks complete non-intervention, even covertly, is the answer to our foreign affairs problems I will always be a little nervous. It would kind of suck to get surprised by an ICBM(nuke) built/launched by Iran, North Korea, or any number of other countries. Ok sure, satellites can tell us a lot, but not everything..

I don't believe in nation building, but I think espionage is a fair part of the game..

Thoughts?

ghemminger
08-31-2007, 03:46 PM
RP supports STRONG defense - small elite military - he often quotes the CIA

ThePieSwindler
08-31-2007, 03:48 PM
I think your buddy severely misunderstand Ron Paul's positions. Ron has talked about how we need more intelligence and we need to break down all the barriers between the intelligence agencies to fight the war on terror so that we can prevent any sort of war abroad. Ill try to dig up where he says this, i might not be able to, but im 100% certain he is for very strong intelligence as defense against terrorism. See, Ron Paul is not an idiot - he wants to defend the country, and the best way to do so is with knowledge and foresight so we can be completely prepared. Espionage does JUST that - foresight so that we can prevent REAL violence. Espionage is the tool we should be using to fight terrorism and protect ourselves from foreign threats and subversion. Email the campaign for an official response if you want.

Espionage against persons in the united states MUST be warranted, of course, but if there is a warrant, than it is indeed constitutional to track and search suspected terrorists, etc.

1000-points-of-fright
08-31-2007, 03:48 PM
I've heard him say that intelligence gathering is perfectly acceptable.

Green Mountain Boy
08-31-2007, 03:51 PM
Is the CIA authorized under the constitution?

ghemminger
08-31-2007, 03:52 PM
Is the CIA authorized under the constitution?

Whoa - thats a good one - don't know

axiomata
08-31-2007, 03:55 PM
He is definitely in favor of intelligence gathering. I would not vote for someone who wasn't. He is, however, against using the CIA to forcibly overthrow foreign governments which I agree with. Also I believe he has said that he would combine CIA, FBI, and NSA into one agency to improve communication.

ThePieSwindler
08-31-2007, 03:57 PM
Is the CIA authorized under the constitution?

No but defense of the nation is. Acquiring knowledge to protect a country before an actual event or attack is essential to the defense process. It could be argued the CIA itself and the way it is run (such as being used to overthrow regimes) is unconstitutional, but the general notion of intelligence falls under the umbrella of defense. This is one of the few areas where government has a legitimate role, i believe.


here is a speech by Ron Paul where he implied that intelligence is the key to the war on terror, and the ignorance of certain intelligence is what has gotten us into this mess in the first place. Reading critically, it is obvious he is a proponent of intelligence as a means of defense.

the article: http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2002/cr091002.htm

heres a quote where he talks about the misuse of our intelligence, and what its proper role should be:

11. Why are we taking precious military and intelligence resources away from tracking down those who did attack the United States- and who may again attack the United States- and using them to invade countries that have not attacked the United States?

ghemminger
08-31-2007, 03:58 PM
He is definitely in favor of intelligence gathering. I would not vote for someone who wasn't. He is, however, against using the CIA to forcibly overthrow foreign governments which I agree with. Also I believe he has said that he would combine CIA, FBI, and NSA into one agency to improve communication.

Wow -what an idea - CENTRAL INTEligence agency - you would think they would have thought of this one already...guess they are'nt to intellegent

1000-points-of-fright
08-31-2007, 04:01 PM
Also I believe he has said that he would combine CIA, FBI, and NSA into one agency to improve communication.

I heard him say that all those intelligence agencies should really just be absorbed into the defense department.

Nefertiti
08-31-2007, 06:26 PM
I seem to recall he said he was against the CIA carrying out political assassinations.

Revolution9
08-31-2007, 08:44 PM
Is the CIA authorized under the constitution?

I believe that The Office Of Naval Intelligence is The Constitutional Intelligence Arm. It may perhaps be the reason that the ONI document section was what was hit on 9/11 at The Pentagon.

Inside the State Department The Offce Of Consular Affairs was set up as a Constitutonal counterbalance to the activities of the Northeastern Elite/Wall St. established OSS, later to become the CIA.

Best
Randy

JosephTheLibertarian
09-01-2007, 07:50 AM
Ron Paul wants peaceful information gathering.