Hamilton's Curse

[Truth Warrior]

FYI ...
Coming soon to an Amazon near you. I bet that it will be a good one. ;)

Hamilton's Curse: How Jefferson's Arch Enemy Betrayed the American Revolution--and What It Means for Americans Today (Hardcover)

by Thomas Dilorenzo (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Thomas%20Dilorenzo) (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Hamiltons-Curse-Jeffersons-Revolution-Americans/dp/0307382842/lewrockwell/

[Number19]

Not many people connect the politics of today as originating in this fundamental division between Jefferson and Hamilton. It's a reflection on today's educational system. I happened to have the benefit of a very good public education starting in the 5th grade, back in the early 60's, which gave me the foundation to build on through my adult life.

Should be a good read; I'll be pre-ordering today.

[Truth Warrior]

Hamilton was the lead conspirator in the unauthorized and illegal Federalist cabal that produced the US Constitution coup on the Articles of Confederation.

Aaron Burr deserves the Medal of Freedom.<IMHO>

[Truth Warrior]

Hamilton's Curse (http://www.lewrockwell.com/podcast/?p=episode&name=2008-08-10_016_hamiltons_curse.mp3)
Tom DiLorenzo podcast with Lew Rockwell on the father of the Fed.

Hamilton Lied in the Federalist Papers (http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo145.html)
His neocon descendants still lie.

The Founding Father of Constitutional Subversion (http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo144.html)
Tom DiLorenzo on Alexander Hamilton, and the Hamiltonians today.

[James Madison]

Hamilton was the lead conspirator in the unauthorized and illegal Federalist cabal that produced the US Constitution coup on the Articles of Confederation.

Aaron Burr deserves the Medal of Freedom.<IMHO>

+1

[Truth Warrior]

+1 Hey, didn't you write the danged thing? ;)

[lucius]

Hamilton was the lead conspirator in the unauthorized and illegal Federalist cabal that produced the US Constitution coup on the Articles of Confederation.

Aaron Burr deserves the Medal of Freedom.<IMHO>

More damn fine shooting!

[Kludge]

Nifty. Thanks for the update, TW. Love me them DiLorenzo books.

[familydog]

FYI ...
Coming soon to an Amazon near you. I bet that it will be a good one. ;)

Hamilton's Curse: How Jefferson's Arch Enemy Betrayed the American Revolution--and What It Means for Americans Today (Hardcover)

by Thomas Dilorenzo (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url?%5Fencoding=UTF8&search-type=ss&index=books&field-author=Thomas%20Dilorenzo) (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Hamiltons-Curse-Jeffersons-Revolution-Americans/dp/0307382842/lewrockwell/

Hopefully this book will be better than DiLorenzo's previous ones.

[James Madison]

Hey, didn't you write the danged thing? ;)

Yes, it was, indeed, a moment of weakness. After all, I'm only 5'4''. But after the 1800 election year I saw the light and joined with my friend Thomas in the Democratic-Republican party.

[TruthisTreason]

Pre-ordered mine last week. :cool:

[Agent Chameleon]

I actually don't have a problem with the replacement of the Articles of Confederation with the US Constitution. I don't think the country could have survived if America was under the Articles.

That being said, I do agree that Hamilton's ideology is responsible for the big government-oriented mentality that dominates current political discourse.

I think that Thomas Jefferson's presidency was able to counter the poisonous effects of Hamilton however Hamiltonian thought lurked in the shadows throughout the next few decades, exploiting the slavery issue to justify stronger central government. And then came Lincoln and... I'm sure you all know the story. ;)

[Truth Warrior]

yes, it was, indeed, a moment of weakness. After all, i'm only 5'4''. But after the 1800 election year i saw the light and joined with my friend thomas in the democratic-republican party. ;)

[Truth Warrior]

I actually don't have a problem with the replacement of the Articles of Confederation with the US Constitution. I don't think the country could have survived if America was under the Articles.

That being said, I do agree that Hamilton's ideology is responsible for the big government-oriented mentality that dominates current political discourse.

I think that Thomas Jefferson's presidency was able to counter the poisonous effects of Hamilton however Hamiltonian thought lurked in the shadows throughout the next few decades, exploiting the slavery issue to justify stronger central government. And then came Lincoln and... I'm sure you all know the story. ;) Kind of a moot point now, isn't it?

How would we ever know just how much US history might have been different and thus changed world history also? ;)

Kinda like asking also, if the Wall Street banksters hadn't financed Lenin's return to Russia.

[Imperial]

Aaron Burr deserves the Medal of Freedom.<IMHO>

Didn't Aaron Burr also try to get Louisiana and other Western territories to secede, but was betrayed by the governor of Louisiana?

[/QUOTE]Hamilton was the lead conspirator in the unauthorized and illegal Federalist cabal that produced the US Constitution coup on the Articles of Confederation.


He wasn't THE leader, he was one of several. Everyone recognized the status quo was inherently flawed. Many were middle of the road too, not quite Samuel Adams' level or at Alexander Hamilton's, like James Madison.

It is similar to what Ron Paul said in the Case for Gold about how the gold standard was saved in the 1890s by the Eastern bankers.

They did the right thing, but their problem was leaving the rest of the nation out.


[QUOTE]Kind of a moot point now, isn't it?

How would we ever know just how much US history might have been different and thus changed world history also?

Kinda like asking also, if the Wall Street bankers hadn't financed Lenin's return to Russia.

But we still have to look in the past and examine this stuff. Ignorance of history ignores empirical evidence that can help us determine the best path.

If we figure out what path should have been taken in the past, and examine that path's consequences, we can determine a course of action for the future. Similarly, we should realize why things happened as they did.

[Truth Warrior]

FWIW .....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation#Revision_and_replacement

[Truth Warrior]

Didn't Aaron Burr also try to get Louisiana and other Western territories to secede, but was betrayed by the governor of Louisiana?

Hamilton was the lead conspirator in the unauthorized and illegal Federalist cabal that produced the US Constitution coup on the Articles of Confederation.


He wasn't THE leader, he was one of several. Everyone recognized the status quo was inherently flawed. Many were middle of the road too, not quite Samuel Adams' level or at Alexander Hamilton's, like James Madison.

It is similar to what Ron Paul said in the Case for Gold about how the gold standard was saved in the 1890s by the Eastern bankers.

They did the right thing, but their problem was leaving the rest of the nation out.




But we still have to look in the past and examine this stuff. Ignorance of history ignores empirical evidence that can help us determine the best path.

If we figure out what path should have been taken in the past, and examine that path's consequences, we can determine a course of action for the future. Similarly, we should realize why things happened as they did.

A primary lesson of history is that people, by and large, do not learn lessons from history. :(

[Agent Chameleon]

Kind of a moot point now, isn't it?

How would we ever know just how much US history might have been different and thus changed world history also? ;)

Kinda like asking also, if the Wall Street banksters hadn't financed Lenin's return to Russia.

A valid point. What-if scenarios certainly are problematic.

However, you can use knowledge of the situation during that time to make an educated guess as far as what would happen.

The way I see it turning out is that the 13 colonies would have been reacquired by the British Empire. Since there was no real central government, there would have been too much squabbling between the colonies and the British would have used the tried and true divide and conquer tactic that they later used in Africa and India.

I also don't see the French coming to aid the Americans again because of the turmoil during the French Revolution.

[Truth Warrior]

A valid point. What-if scenarios certainly are problematic.

However, you can use knowledge of the situation during that time to make an educated guess as far as what would happen.

The way I see it turning out is that the 13 colonies would have been reacquired by the British Empire. Since there was no real central government, there would have been too much squabbling between the colonies and the British would have used the tried and true divide and conquer tactic that they later used in Africa and India.

I also don't see the French coming to aid the Americans again because of the turmoil during the French Revolution. Hmmm? When? 1812? When the Brits burned D.C.?

[Agent Chameleon]

Hmmm? When? 1812? When the Brits burned D.C.?

Maybe then, could have happened earlier. I'm fairly certain that if the Articles of Confederation continued into the 1790's, the Brits would have smelled weakness and pounced.

I don't think they would be content with losing control of a very vast and profitable piece of their empire.

[Truth Warrior]

Maybe then, could have happened earlier. I'm fairly certain that if the Articles of Confederation continued into the 1790's, the Brits would have smelled weakness and pounced.

I don't think they would be content with losing control of a very vast and profitable piece of their empire. Uh, Hamilton was a Bank of England, Rothschild agent, for Pete's sake. I imagine the Brits were thrilled with the US Constitution. Only one government to conquer instead of 13. ;)

[Agent Chameleon]

Uh, Hamilton was a Bank of England, Rothschild agent, for Pete's sake. I imagine the Brits were thrilled with the US Constitution. Only one government to conquer instead of 13. ;)

Hamilton was pro-British but there was a very strong faction that was pro-French as well. If the 13 colonies were divided the British would have used their divide-and-conquer tactics like in Africa.

Perhaps install Hamilton as dictator of NY, and prod him to wage war against Jefferson's Virginia. ;p

[Truth Warrior]

Hamilton was pro-British but there was a very strong faction that was pro-French as well. If the 13 colonies were divided the British would have used their divide-and-conquer tactics like in Africa.

Perhaps install Hamilton as dictator of NY, and prod him to wage war against Jefferson's Virginia. ;p And we would have kicked their butts out of Canada. :D Comparisons to Africa do not persuade me. :rolleyes: That's more like fighting the Indians.<IMHO>

[Agent Chameleon]

And we would have kicked their butts out of Canada. :D Comparisons to Africa do not persuade me. :rolleyes: That's more like fighting the Indians.<IMHO>

I highly doubt that.

Think about it, the British regain their strength, use Canada as a staging ground, help spread strife within the 13 colonies. Being that the country is completely divided and with a huge debt and a currency worth absolutely nothing, the 13 colonies would not have had the infrastructure to fight a war against the British. Instead of waging guerilla war like in the American Revolution they would have been fighting to maintain the independence of 13 different colonies, each sending its own armies to fight the British. No military cohesion at all. The British would have been prepared this time.

And with no aid from the French, the 13 colonies would have been screwed. The colonists may not have been as disorganized as African tribes, but compared to the British armies they would not have stood a chance, and a 2nd war would have demoralized the people and lead them into accepting British rule.

I firmly believe that George Washington as President helped keep any British intentions of reclaiming America at bay.

[AggieforPaul]

DiLorenzo has a great pen, this should be really interesting.

[Truth Warrior]

I highly doubt that.

Think about it, the British regain their strength, use Canada as a staging ground, help spread strife within the 13 colonies. Being that the country is completely divided and with a huge debt and a currency worth absolutely nothing, the 13 colonies would not have had the infrastructure to fight a war against the British. Instead of waging guerilla war like in the American Revolution they would have been fighting to maintain the independence of 13 different colonies, each sending its own armies to fight the British. No military cohesion at all. The British would have been prepared this time.

And with no aid from the French, the 13 colonies would have been screwed. The colonists may not have been as disorganized as African tribes, but compared to the British armies they would not have stood a chance, and a 2nd war would have demoralized the people and lead them into accepting British rule.

I firmly believe that George Washington as President helped keep any British intentions of reclaiming America at bay.
Hypothetical what ifs are fun for a while, but we really just got what we got.

And here we now are. :rolleyes:

[Kalifornia]

Not many people connect the politics of today as originating in this fundamental division between Jefferson and Hamilton.

Yep. Im amazed more people dont understand it.

[Truth Warrior]

bump for TJ. :)

[Agent Chameleon]

Hypothetical what ifs are fun for a while, but we really just got what we got.

And here we now are. :rolleyes:

As I said, they are problematic, but whenever anyone gets into an argument like "was the US Constitution a mistake?", it's natural to explore these what-if scenarios that are based on likely probabilities.

[Truth Warrior]

As I said, they are problematic, but whenever anyone gets into an argument like "was the US Constitution a mistake?", it's natural to explore these what-if scenarios that are based on likely probabilities.

For your consideration:

The Illegality, Immorality, and Violence of All Political Action
http://users.aol.com/xeqtr1/voluntaryist/vopa.html

The part of this relevant to our conversation is about a third of the way down, in my rough estimation. ;)

[Agent Chameleon]

For your consideration:

The Illegality, Immorality, and Violence of All Political Action
http://users.aol.com/xeqtr1/voluntaryist/vopa.html

The part of this relevant to our conversation is about a third of the way down, in my rough estimation. ;)

A very interesting read, thank you. :)

[Truth Warrior]

A very interesting read, thank you. :) You're welcome. :)

BTW, the author of that is my original libertarian mentor, from several decades ago. ;)

[Truth Warrior]

bump

[Truth Warrior]

bump

[Chester Copperpot]

Uh, Hamilton was a Bank of England, Rothschild agent, for Pete's sake. I imagine the Brits were thrilled with the US Constitution. Only one government to conquer instead of 13. ;)

DO you have a link for that claim?

[Danke]

DO you have a link for that claim?

Can you email a banned member?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/sendmessage.php?do=mailmember&u=9050

[heavenlyboy34]

Can you email a banned member?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/sendmessage.php?do=mailmember&u=9050

I miss TW. :(

[Chester Copperpot]

what happened to him? Why did he get banned?

[FrankRep]

DO you have a link for that claim?

I'm not finding anything credible to link the Rothschilds with Alexander Hamilton. Just a ton of speculations with no proof.

Google: Rothschild Alexander Hamilton
http://www.google.com/search?q=Alexander+Hamilton+Rothschild&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=564&prmd=ivnso&ei=UFR0TajxFI-p8Aap_pWgDw&start=0&sa=N

[Galileo Galilei]

Hamilton was the lead conspirator in the unauthorized and illegal Federalist cabal that produced the US Constitution coup on the Articles of Confederation.

Aaron Burr deserves the Medal of Freedom.<IMHO>

Do you oppose state's rights? Each state has the right to ratify or not ratify the Constitution, rather than have an out-of-state person dictate to them what they can do. All the states ratified the Constitution.

[Galileo Galilei]

Maybe then, could have happened earlier. I'm fairly certain that if the Articles of Confederation continued into the 1790's, the Brits would have smelled weakness and pounced.

I don't think they would be content with losing control of a very vast and profitable piece of their empire.

The British empire used the same divide and conquer strategies used to today when the US divides the people of Iraq.

The British banking interests were bribing the NE states leading up to the war of 1812, trying to get them to secede and then not support then supply the British at the Hartford convention, as well as passing military strategy to the British. If not for the Constitution and James Madison, we would have just been another exploited colony.