Uh Oh, PBS says the Old Testament is a myth!

[ChooseLiberty]

AND (gulp). The hebrews didn't get "freed" from the land O' Egypt. GASP!

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/tv/orl-exodus2108jul21,0,7755323.story


Holy Moses! PBS documentary suggests Exodus not real
Hal Boedeker | Sentinel Television Critic
July 21, 2008


BEVERLY HILLS, Calif. - Abraham didn't exist? The Exodus didn't happen?

The Bible's Buried Secrets, a new PBS documentary, is likely to cause a furor.

"It challenges the Bible's stories if you want to read them literally, and that will disturb many people," says archaeologist William Dever, who specializes in Israel's history. "But it explains how and why these stories ever came to be told in the first place, and how and why they were written down."

The Nova program will premiere Nov. 18. PBS presented a clip and a panel discussion at the summer tour of the Television Critics Association.



The program says the Bible was written in the sixth century BC and that hundreds of authors contributed.

"At least the first five books of the Bible come together during the Babylonian exile," says producer Gary Glassman.

The program challenges long-held beliefs. Abraham, Sarah and their offspring probably didn't exist, says Carol Meyers, a religion professor at Duke University.

"These stories are unlikely to represent real historical events, but rather there's some kernel of ancient experience in there which has survived and which helps give identity to the people at the time the Bible finally took shape centuries and centuries later," Meyers says.

There's no archaeological evidence of the Exodus, either, she says, but "it doesn't mean that there's no kernel of truth to it."

Nova series producer Paula Apsell says she found it "extremely shocking" to learn that monotheism was a process that took hundreds of years.

"I was always brought up to believe that the minute Abraham and the patriarchs came on the scene, the Israelites accepted one God and there was just always one God and that was it," Apsell says. "I think people are going to really be stunned by that."

Another shocker: The program contradicts the biblical view that the Israelites came from somewhere else into the land of Canaan. "The film shows that they were Canaanites," Apsell says.

[Agent Chameleon]

Since when was PBS ever considered an arbiter of truth?

[ARealConservative]

hot topics by any other name would not smell so sweet.

[Truth Warrior]

PBS is a myth AND an oxymoron. :p

[pacelli]

Pentagon Broadcasting Station, huh?

[yongrel]

Good ol' PBS.

[ChooseLiberty]

YES!

ANYTHING that doesn't agree with the fairy tale must be immediately CENSORED!

Moses would be soooooo pissed and turn into a snake or whatever.



hot topics by any other name would not smell so sweet.

[Agent Chameleon]

YES!

ANYTHING that doesn't agree with the fairy tale must be immediately CENSORED!

Moses would be soooooo pissed and turn into a snake or whatever.

Eh?

Who's calling for censorship?

[acptulsa]

Wouldn't seperation of church and state dictate that PBS turn its attention to other matters and leave this alone?

Not that I believe the OT is literal truth, just wondering why they are going there. I'm no more a fan of secular humanism than I am of certain intolerant sects of Christianity, Islam etc. Seems to me the Constitution censors PBS on certain topics. Not that it isn't three-quarters privatized, but still...

[yongrel]

Wouldn't seperation of church and state dictate that PBS turn its attention to other matters and leave this alone?

Not that I believe the OT is literal truth, just wondering why they are going there. I'm no more a fan of secular humanism than I am of certain intolerant sects of Christianity, Islam etc.

PBS actually receives very little funding from the government. The overwhelming majority of their funding comes from corporate sponsorship, large private donations, and small individual donations.

Same with NPR.

[ChooseLiberty]

It's about archeology and science and stuff like that.

Like Troy and archeology. You know how Troy really existed, but apparently the OT stuff is all made up. Go figure.


Wouldn't seperation of church and state dictate that PBS turn its attention to other matters and leave this alone?

Not that I believe the OT is literal truth, just wondering why they are going there. I'm no more a fan of secular humanism than I am of certain intolerant sects of Christianity, Islam etc. Seems to me the Constitution censors PBS on certain topics. Not that it isn't three-quarters privatized, but still...

[ItsTime]

I thought it was fact by now that most of the bible is a myth? Or do people still believe that crap?

[Agent Chameleon]

I thought it was fact by now that most of the bible is a myth? Or do people still believe that crap?

Speaking... ^_^

[Uriel999]

It's very true that faith of the Hebrew people was not originally monotheistic. If you look at the earliest texts and continue through the bible you find that originally when the god of the hebrews talks he says he is their god, in many places it seems that other gods are recognized to exist. There is also much credence to the theory that the Exodus never happened, and that the Hebrew people came about in the "holy land." They didn't discover it, they were already there. And yes, most scholars now feel Moses never wrote the 5 books of the torah. This doesn't mean he didn't exist, however, he could have orally said some of the stories that where later written down or as well in those days it was not considered wrong to write a book and say its author was somebody else. It was an honorific thing to do. So the Torah (assuming Moses did actually exist) even if not written by Moses since in the tradition of Moses, there is no problem.

[Uriel999]

Man, I love the responses of that article. Apparently none of these people ever have studied Judeo-Christianity outside of the realm of the bible and church. Nevermind looking into history or archeology. It never amazes me the anti-intellectualism of some Christians. When I was working on my minor in religion at UWF my professors were all Christian. One was fairly liberal in his philosophies, the other was a Jesuit from Kenya and probably one of the smartest men I have ever met. When I was in community college my New Testament teacher was an Episcopal (who went to seminary) she brought up all these points to us. The point is, these people were very educated and knowledgeable in Christianity, but they still found its teachings and stories to be true, whether or not the events actually occurred or not.

[Uriel999]

Oh and the titles a bit misleading, more like the Torah specifically is being discussed here.

[ChooseLiberty]

You're in the USA, right?

The USA where the biggest issues are abortion and *****s getting married, while the insane neocons try to use it to destroy random countries for Israel using the US military? Because Cletus and Barbi Jo think that an old hebrew fairy tale is historical fact? That USA?



I thought it was fact by now that most of the bible is a myth? Or do people still believe that crap?

[LibertyOfOne]

Science forbid that they dare make such a claim!

[James Madison]

The Egyptians were probably the greatest record keepers of the ancient world. They recorded EVERYTHING-even their defeats at the hands of the Asyrians and the Nubians. And yet not a single mention of Abraham, Moses, or anything.

[hypnagogue]

Basically, anyone willing to believe the Bible and it's individual components are myths and fairy tales, already does.

But I sure do like watching PBS! Nova anyone? :D

[ChooseLiberty]

Forgot to mention that Cletus and Barbi Jo (IQs indeterminate) !BELIEVE! that "yahweh" gave "Israel" to the "jews" because Rev. Hagee says so.

(and Rev. Hagee gets a private jet as a gift from Israel for convincing them. Yay!)



You're in the USA, right?

The USA where the biggest issues are abortion and *****s getting married, while the insane neocons try to use it to destroy random countries for Israel using the US military? Because Cletus and Barbi Jo think that an old hebrew fairy tale is historical fact? That USA?

[Matt Collins]

I thought it was fact by now that most of the bible is a myth? Or do people still believe that crap?Myth does not necessarily mean "false"

In fact the Webster definition defines 'myth' as: "a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon"

[Ozwest]

It's about archeology and science and stuff like that.

Like Troy and archeology. You know how Troy really existed, but apparently the OT stuff is all made up. Go figure.


Gotta laugh.

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

Like Troy and archeology. You know how Troy really existed, but apparently the OT stuff is all made up. Go figure.

The existence of Troy proves Achilles. Just as the existence of New York proves Spiderman.

[Theocrat]

AND (gulp). The hebrews didn't get "freed" from the land O' Egypt. GASP!

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/tv/orl-exodus2108jul21,0,7755323.story


Holy Moses! PBS documentary suggests Exodus not real
Hal Boedeker | Sentinel Television Critic
July 21, 2008

I find it ironic that people will easily accept the testimony of a PBS program, stating the Old Testament is a myth (which was produced by men), yet they reject the testimony of the Old Testament itself (which has been around much longer than PBS and verified by history, prophecy, and archeology) because it was written by men. PBS said it; I guess that makes it true... :rolleyes:

For anyone seeking an objective case for the historical accuracy and preservation of the Old Testament and the Bible as a whole, this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SekR-QHCXVU) should suffice as some evidence that I'm sure PBS doesn't want you to know about.

[ItsTime]

The Egyptians were probably the greatest record keepers of the ancient world. They recorded EVERYTHING-even their defeats at the hands of the Asyrians and the Nubians. And yet not a single mention of Abraham, Moses, or anything.

or the vanishing of however many 100s of thousands of "slaves". And no records of a great decrease in the supply of water and food go figure :rolleyes:

[dannno]

Myth does not necessarily mean "false"

In fact the Webster definition defines 'myth' as: "a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon"

So, what you're saying is that the title of this thread is basically the same as saying:


"Uh Oh, PBS says the Constitution is a 200+ year old document!"

[Ozwest]

The Catholic Church edited the Bible for you.

I know those early Popes were trustworthy and without blemish.

[Theocrat]

The Catholic Church edited the Bible for you.

I know those early Popes were trustworthy and without blemish.

What manuscript evidence do you have to support such a notion?

[ItsTime]

What manuscript evidence do you have to support such a notion?

The fact that the Catholic church has stated it?

[Ozwest]

What manuscript evidence do you have to support such a notion?

I have a manuscript in my back pocket.

Are you debating that the Bible was not constructed in Rome?

[Uriel999]

I find it ironic that people will easily accept the testimony of a PBS program, stating the Old Testament is a myth (which was produced by men), yet they reject the testimony of the Old Testament itself (which has been around much longer than PBS and verified by history, prophecy, and archeology) because it was written by men. PBS said it; I guess that makes it true... :rolleyes:

For anyone seeking an objective case for the historical accuracy and preservation of the Old Testament and the Bible as a whole, this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SekR-QHCXVU) should suffice as some evidence that I'm sure PBS doesn't want you to know about.

Theocrat, it is true that there is much historical accuracy to many of the events/locations that the OT discusses, but the book was written by men, and thus inasmuch is flawed. Read Bart Ehrman's "Misqouting Jesus" for many many examples of errors in the bible.

Many of the stories in the bible where never written to be taken as literally true, but the concepts behind them are were the importance of them is to be found. In their time when new, these stories were understood to be stories but ones that had important meanings behind them. For instance the story of Jonah and the big fish (never was said to be a whale). Yes it is feasible that a man was swallowed and puked up later. However, is it not equally possible that this was a legend/story/fairytale/etc that wasn't telling about a real event, but perhaps was an allegory about how the Hebrew people (Jonah) where swallowed up by Babylon (the big fish) but through God's direct intervention where eventually freed from bondage.

[Ozwest]

Theocrat,

Where are you?

[Ozwest]

Atheist calling.

[Theocrat]

The fact that the Catholic church has stated it?

Where's their official statement or document which proves this assertion (or is this just your opinion)?


I have a manuscript in my back pocket.

Are you debating that the Bible was not constructed in Rome?

I doubt that you have any manuscript evidence, and that's why I asked you for evidence to show that you don't know what you're talking about.


Theocrat, it is true that there is much historical accuracy to many of the events/locations that the OT discusses, but the book was written by men, and thus inasmuch is flawed. Read Bart Ehrman's "Misqouting Jesus" for many many examples of errors in the bible.(emphasis mine)

So I guess by that reasoning, we shouldn't accept anything written by men as true because it's all flawed. If that's the case, then I shouldn't believe your post because you're a man, and thus, what you've written is flawed.

The problem you have (like so many other people who reject God) is that you don't understand the wisdom and power of the Almighty God. Of course God, Who is all-powerful and all-knowing and Who created all things with His own words, is able to inspire men to write exactly the words He intended them to publish and preserve those words throughout history without error. If that's true, then it makes perfect sense how the Bible is the true word of God, even through His using the pens of men. Don't put human limitations of transcription upon God because God is much higher and powerful than men.

[Ozwest]

Theocrat,

I carry a pocket manuscript at all times.

Time for you to do some research.

Bible history didn't begin in the Appalachian Mountains.

[Theocrat]

Theocrat,

I carry a pocket manuscript at all times.

Time for you to do some research.

Bible history didn't begin in the Appalachian Mountains.

You carry a pocket manuscript of what? Can you post this manuscript on this thread as evidence for your claims?

[Ozwest]

You carry a pocket manuscript of what? Can you post this manuscript on this thread as evidence for your claims?

Sorry mate, I've been at this computer too long and am becoming jaded.

Time to hit the beach and go fishing.

I'll debate you another time.

Cheers.

[Uriel999]

So I guess by that reasoning, we shouldn't accept anything written by men as true because it's all flawed. If that's the case, then I shouldn't believe your post because you're a man, and thus, what you've written is flawed.

No, what I am saying is that you need to more critically examine the texts.


The problem you have (like so many other people who reject God) is that you don't understand the wisdom and power of the Almighty God. Of course God, Who is all-powerful and all-knowing and Who created all things with His own words, is able to inspire men to write exactly the words He intended them to publish and preserve those words throughout history without error. If that's true, then it makes perfect sense how the Bible is the true word of God, even through His using the pens of men. Don't put human limitations of transcription upon God because God is much higher and powerful than men.

I notice you skipped over my recommendations to read the book "Misquoting Jesus." There are many many documented errors in the bible. Believe me I was was once just as much a conservative Christian as yourself. I believed it all, one day while studying the bible I was reading a work of Paul and he wrote "test everything." This challenge I took up with zeal. After this challenge, I came away with a different set of beliefs. A real examination of the bible requires more than blind faith.

You have to look at more than what just validates your faith. You must critically examine faith which includes entertaining ideas and researching those ideas that may not seem to particularly jibe with your worldview. Read Misquoting Jesus. At the very least a good challenge to your beliefs always will allow you to present a better case for your views.

[pacelli]

For anyone seeking an objective case for the historical accuracy and preservation of the Old Testament and the Bible as a whole, this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SekR-QHCXVU) should suffice as some evidence that I'm sure PBS doesn't want you to know about.

Thanks for that link!

[James Madison]

or the vanishing of however many 100s of thousands of "slaves". And no records of a great decrease in the supply of water and food go figure :rolleyes:

I agree, and this is coming from a Christian. But then again, I don't believe most of the Old Testament.:p

[Dr.3D]

Thanks for that link!

Here are all of them for that video. :)

Part one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SekR-QHCXVU)
Part two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBfYKh21qdA)
Part three (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS_1IqqxmMU)
Part four (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj0v_74q3G0)
Part five (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqR2hxnXwpk)
Part Six (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u222QOwcuE)

[ChooseLiberty]

This guy is talking about the NT not the OT.

Could someone have "moses" or "jahweh" make a CNN appearance or something just to clear this up? It's so confusing. Thanks in advance.



Here are all of them for that video. :)

Part one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SekR-QHCXVU)
Part two (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBfYKh21qdA)
Part three (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS_1IqqxmMU)
Part four (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj0v_74q3G0)
Part five (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqR2hxnXwpk)
Part Six (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u222QOwcuE)

[Theocrat]

This guy is talking about the NT not the OT.

Could someone have "moses" or "jahweh" make a CNN appearance or something just to clear this up? It's so confusing. Thanks in advance.

Here's an article (http://reformedperspectives.org/newfiles/ej_young/ej_young.humanwrittersoftheot.pdf) which gives a great perspective on the writers of the Old Testament, and maybe it will assist you in understanding the divine inspiration and preservation of the Old Testament.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Well I would say that many of the stories in the bible are allegory..and I of course Jesus spoke in parables..."code". There was a reason for that.

The thing I find most interesting is that television is propaganda unless it produces something you fervently believe in..such as atheism. YOu rejoice and revel in these zionist / communist propagandists who do everything they can to trash Christianity. Beware. It's an agenda and you have bought into it. Christianity is a strong tradition, and the idea is to break down our traditions in the USA. All I can say is they got to YOU. Most Christians won't watch that show...and to be honest with you, propaganda like that strengthens the faith of the Christian. I remember in the 60's when this communist atheist agenda started gaining ground...the newspapers had a big headline that read "GOD IS DEAD" , anyone besides me old enough to remember that? Churches gained membership after that lol. It has taken a long time for the communists who infiltrated the usa after ww1 to create a society of atheists in the USA.

It took a lot of television shows like you mentioned, getting God out of schools...etc. If you think it makes you more intelligent to deny the existance of God, you have been brainwashed. Cancel your cable tv...that's a good start. You have been bamboozled! LONG LIVE GOD. TONES

[Kade]

PBS has had more investigative and informative programming than any other station in existence... I don't know where the criticism is coming from...

Just watch Bush's War (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/) and tell me it was biased.

Quality programming and quality material.

It is not a secret in legitimate scholarship fields of the falsity of the Old Testament, but in our current state of budding theocracy, it isn't wildly accepted.

[lucius]

Douglas Reed would agree with this--a myth to enslave. From Ch 4 'The Forging of the Chains' in his book the 'Controversy of Zion', p. 25:


With their people firmly under their thumbs, the Levites then set about to complete the compilation of
"The Law". The four books which they added to Deuteronomy make up the Torah, and this word, which
originally meant doctrine, is now recognized to mean "the Law". However, "completion" is a most misleading
word in this connection.

Only the Torah (in the sense of the five books) was completed. The Law was not then and never can be
completed, given the existence of the "secret Torah" recorded by the Talmud (which itself was but the later
continuation of the Torah), and the priestly claim to divine right of interpretation. In fact, "the Law" was
constantly changed, often to close some loophole which might have allowed "the stranger" to enjoy a right
devolving only on "a neighbour". Some examples of this continuing process of amendment have already been
given, and others follow in this chapter. The effect was usually to make hatred of or contempt for "the
stranger" an integral part of "the Law" through the provision of discriminatory penalties or immunities.

When the Torah was complete a great stockade, unique in its nature but still incomplete, had been
built between any human beings who at any time accepted this "Law" and the rest of mankind. The Torah
allowed no distinction between this Law of Jehovah and that of man, between religious and civil law. The law
of [25] "the stranger", theologically and juridically, had no existence, and any pretension to enforce one was
"persecution", as Jehovah's was the only law.

The priesthood claimed that the Torah governed every act of daily life, down to the most trivial. Any
objection that Moses could not have received from Jehovah on the mountain detailed instructions covering
every conceivable action performed by man, was met with the dogma that the priesthood, like relay runners,
handed on from generation to generation "the oral tradition" of Jehovah's revelation to Moses, and infinite
power of reinterpretation. However, such objections were rare, as the Law prescribed the death penalty for
doubters.

Mr. Montefiore [married relative to Nathan Mayer Rothschild] remarks, accurately, that the Old Testament is "revealed legislation, not revealed
truth", and says the Israelite prophets cannot have known anything of the Torah as the Levites completed it
in Babylon. Jeremiah's words, "the pen of the Scribes is in vain" evidently refer to this process of Levitical
revision and to the attribution of innumerable new "statutes and judgments" to Jehovah and Moses.

"Sin" was not a concept in the Torah as it took shape. That is logical, for in law there cannot be "sin",
only crime or misdemeanour. The only offence known to this Law was non-observance, which meant crime or
misdemeanour. What is commonly understood by "sin", namely, moral transgression, was sometimes
expressly enjoined by it or made absolvable by the sacrifice of an animal.

The idea of "the return" (together with the related ideas of destruction and dominion) was basic to the
dogma, which stood or fell by it. No strong impulse to return from Babylon to Jerusalem existed among the
people (any more than today, when the instinct of the vast majority of Jews is completely against "return", so
that the Zionist state is much more easily able to find money abroad than immigrants).

You can download 'The Controversy of Zion' pdf here: http://www.kasjo.net/reeedcontrov.pdf

[georgiaboy]

"For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength." - 1 Cor. 1:25, Book of Myths ;)

[RockEnds]

... I remember in the 60's when this communist atheist agenda started gaining ground...the newspapers had a big headline that read "GOD IS DEAD" , anyone besides me old enough to remember that?....

No, but I was born that week.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1966/1101660408_400.jpg

[Mitt Romneys sideburns]

communist atheist agenda

You really buy into the "atheist=communist" propaganda ?

[Kade]

you really buy into the "atheist=communist" propaganda ?

+2008

[ChooseLiberty]

You've heard of that infamous "commie/athiest" Thomas Jefferson maybe? LOL.

It seems a huge proportion of Americans are convinced the OT/Torah is a document of historical facts. This mindset allows the neocons to have free reign to attack and kill all kinds of random people in the ME, since the "a-rabs" are supposedly de facto enemies of "Israel" and "jehovah". Maybe you've noticed this little anomaly.


Well I would say that many of the stories in the bible are allegory..and I of course Jesus spoke in parables..."code". There was a reason for that.

The thing I find most interesting is that television is propaganda unless it produces something you fervently believe in..such as atheism. YOu rejoice and revel in these zionist / communist propagandists who do everything they can to trash Christianity. Beware. It's an agenda and you have bought into it. Christianity is a strong tradition, and the idea is to break down our traditions in the USA. All I can say is they got to YOU. Most Christians won't watch that show...and to be honest with you, propaganda like that strengthens the faith of the Christian. I remember in the 60's when this communist atheist agenda started gaining ground...the newspapers had a big headline that read "GOD IS DEAD" , anyone besides me old enough to remember that? Churches gained membership after that lol. It has taken a long time for the communists who infiltrated the usa after ww1 to create a society of atheists in the USA.

It took a lot of television shows like you mentioned, getting God out of schools...etc. If you think it makes you more intelligent to deny the existance of God, you have been brainwashed. Cancel your cable tv...that's a good start. You have been bamboozled! LONG LIVE GOD. TONES

[devil21]

The Egyptians were probably the greatest record keepers of the ancient world. They recorded EVERYTHING-even their defeats at the hands of the Asyrians and the Nubians. And yet not a single mention of Abraham, Moses, or anything.

According to a video series Ive been watching, historians have been able to 95% connect biblical figures with Egyptian figures and assert that characters such as Moses and Abraham were actually Egyptians and their biblical identities were slightly changed to hide their true origins. Jesus was actually the son of Marc Antony and Cleopatra and studied under Buddhists in India even. Its a pretty wild series and I must admit, its very convincing if truly factual. It covers *a lot* of terrority and is probably one of the most informative series Ive ever watched regarding centralized world power. Its long (5hrs total) and quality is not so great but I recommend it to everyone if only to hear it out.

Ring of Power Part 1
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=ring+of+power+part+1&emb=0#

Ring of Power Part 2
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=ring+of+power+part+2&emb=0#