Strangebedfellows Intends to give Obama a Pass

[Rhys]

NY Times reports that strange bedfellows has no intention of going after Obama because they want the whitehouse.

This is a ploy to get money and help from libertarians in making certain people money, and other people get political gain.

Reminds me of the Rockefeller Foundation.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/07/stung-by-fisa-group-to-drop-money-bomb/



Mr. Lyman’s firm, Basic Media, Inc., will receive compensation for helping with the fund-raiser.

Furthermore, Mr. Lyman said, right-leaning supporters who gave generously to Mr. Paul are “experiencing some serious donor fatigue.” A recent money bomb for 25 down-ballot candidates allied with Mr. Paul yielded disappointing figures.

“The anger on the left is much more fresh,” said Rick Williams, co-founder of Basic Media, adding that the Libertarian right feels it has been “sold out by the Republican establishment for years,” while liberals are only more recently frustrated by the new majority.

Mr. Greenwald said his group would stay out of the presidential race, even though Senator Barack Obama faced criticism from the netroots for supporting the FISA bill.

“Democrats will be very wary of anything that jeopardizes the White House,” said Mr. Greenwald. “Democrats are going to control both houses of Congress inevitably, and the only question is not who’s going to control the Congress, but what are they going to do with that control.”

[JonathanBydlak]

NY Times reports that strange bedfellows has no intention of going after Obama because they want the whitehouse.

This is a ploy to get money and help from libertarians in making certain people money, and other people get political gain.

Reminds me of the Rockefeller Foundation.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/07/stung-by-fisa-group-to-drop-money-bomb/


This seems accurate, as far as I can tell. I just pasted this article in the forums as well, which calls into question the motivations of Strange Bedfellows.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=149695

http://www.politickermd.com/wallyedgemd/3111/why-not-collins-bailey


Why not Collins Bailey?

By Wally Edge

It remains to be seen how much the "moneybomb" organized by Ron Paul supporters and left-leaning bloggers will bring in today, but it looks like it will be a drop in the bucket (currently $127,000) compared to the multi-millions Paul was able to haul on his flash fundraising days.

That probably has something to do with the Paul side's hearts not being in it. The New York Times said this morning that Democratic bloggers Jane Hamsher and Glenn Greenwald were the ones really 'calling the shots,' and it couldn't have been any more true in that the Paul-style libertarian Republicans will not see a nickel toward promoting one of their own. "We'll be using [the money] soon," Hamsher says, "to recruit primary challengers to corporatist Bush enablers on both sides of the aisle."

'Both sides of the aisle?' Don't think so.

Case-in-point: why, if this is a joint effort between progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans, is there talk of future primary challengers when Collins Bailey is already in the race against Steny Hoyer?

Bailey is the guy who organized a full slate of Ron Paul delegates and congressional candidates in 7 of Maryland's 8 districts -- something the state GOP failed to do. He has shown the initiative, meeting with Republican groups and the media, to promote his candidacy.

His biggest problem is a lack of funds. He had $600 in cash on hand at the end of last quarter (compared to Steny's $1.5 million).

If the plan was to swing in with a big independent expenditure effort on behalf of Bailey, get his name recognition up and blast Hoyer repeatedly, perhaps they could have excited the Ron Paul base? It's not like these people aren't believers. They raised tens of millions for an quixotic Texas congressman, for crying out loud! Having an opponent with the profile of Hoyer's would have made it all the more marketable to that crowd.

Now, maybe that has been the plan all along, and they're just being low key about it... OK, not likely. And that's why this effort fell far short of Ron Paul's "moneybombs."

Truth is, 'Strangebedfellows' was neither -- it was typical and it was partisan, and it will not have the intended impact.

[ItsTime]

Break The Matrix is just a left propaganda news outlet. All I can say... is I told you so. I hope all you liberty minded people realize where the money bomb money you all sent in yesterday is going.... to help the dems. Way to fail again BTM.

[JonathanBydlak]

Break The Matrix is just a left propaganda news outlet.

But one that likely will be lucrative for parties involved.

[ItsTime]

But one that likely will be lucrative for parties involved.

using the hard work of the RON PAUL grassroot emails. These people can seriously go fuck themselves. Anyone who supports BTM has been fooled.

I am really disappointed in Ron Paul Forums for flying strangebedfellow banners.

[JonathanBydlak]

using the hard work of the RON PAUL grassroot emails. These people can seriously go fuck themselves. Anyone who supports BTM has been fooled.

I am really disappointed in Ron Paul Forums for flying strangebedfellow banners.

c'est la vie :)

[RPTXState]

Break The Matrix is just a left propaganda news outlet. All I can say... is I told you so. I hope all you liberty minded people realize where the money bomb money you all sent in yesterday is going.... to help the dems. Way to fail again BTM.

+1

[Jeremy]

I've always had a feeling that it was just some dems trying to get support from us...

HOWEVER... why blame BTM right now? How do you know BTM wasn't the one that was tricked by the leftists?

Anyway, here's a quote that the leftists never live up to and why I was opposed to this "coalition" from the beginning:

"The idea that political freedom can be preserved in the absence of economic freedom, and vice versa, is an illusion. Political freedom is the corollary of economic freedom."
- Ludwig von Mises

[JoshLowry]

using the hard work of the RON PAUL grassroot emails. These people can seriously go fuck themselves. Anyone who supports BTM has been fooled.

I am really disappointed in Ron Paul Forums for flying strangebedfellow banners.

Sometimes you get burned when reaching out and trying new things.

I'm confused at the moment.

[RPTXState]

I've always had a feeling that it was just some dems trying to get support from us...

HOWEVER... why blame BTM right now? How do you know BTM wasn't the one that was tricked by the leftists?

Anyway, here's a quote that the leftists never live up to and why I was opposed to this "coalition" from the beginning:

"The idea that political freedom can be preserved in the absence of economic freedom, and vice versa, is an illusion. Political freedom is the corollary of economic freedom."
- Ludwig von Mises

If you're "in charge" of fundraising (in Trevor's case, having his name used for fundraising potential), shouldn't you know where the money's going?

[Jeremy]

I think the real issue here is that the Democrats involved in this are simply WEAK on supporting freedom. They'd rather support party politics. The real freedom fighters are right here, and we've known this all along. BTM should leave this immediately, otherwise I will have no problem hating on them.

[Bryan]

Here's my take- first, I understand the need for caution but I'm not going to jump the gun until the money is spent.

Second, it would seem logical that the Dems know more about the Dem candidates, so perhaps it would be fruitful to make a list of all the pro-liberty, anti-FISA candidates running against someone who was pro-FISA (what the PAC is against). Then, send a note to the PAC that you would like for them to support the top candidate on your list, presumably if you donated.

In the face of clear and present options, if the PAC then decides to ignore everyone but the Dems then there is obviously the possibility of blowback for being misleading / not truthful. We all know how blowback goes...

If at the end of the day we get burned, we get burned- but we wear that scar moving forward for all to see who burned us. (... and some can say "See, I told you so!" :D)

As for the Obama issue, with the guns (funding) that he has, I don't see how what was raised would make much of a difference, if any- and it would mostly help McCain anyway. Best to keep funding to cases that it could have an effect.


Just my $0.02. Thanks.

[Bryan]

BTW- the for-sure liberty option is the Liberty Straw Poll-- where your donation even gets you a vote.

http://www.LibertyStrawPoll.com

:)

[Rhys]

Bryan I've thought about what you said for a bit now and I think that we're not trying to hurt or help mccain. i think we've developed a "we hate mccain" mentality, but we really hate the system of which he and obama are a part. therefor, attacking no dems doesn't help even if they want the white house and even if they'll work with us.

[bucfish]

They have mention going after Steny Hoyer A Democrat with a RP Rep, Collins Bailey as his opponent. Also Lindsey Graham with a Conservative democrat Bob Conley as his opponent.

Either way people need to let others do their thing. This PAC is to generate support against VISA and to run ads against those who voted for it.

Quit being haters and dividing things. Remember this message should unite us.

I remember them Blimp Haters quit wasting your time stirring up negativity and do something positive. Noone is forcing anyone to donate to strangebedfellows and noone is forcing you to join BTM.

[Bryan]

Bryan I've thought about what you said for a bit now and I think that we're not trying to hurt or help mccain. i think we've developed a "we hate mccain" mentality, but we really hate the system of which he and obama are a part. therefor, attacking no dems doesn't help even if they want the white house and even if they'll work with us.

Thanks for the note. A point of clarification, my point isn't so much of being anti-McCain vs. him not being a champion of anti-FISA, to say the least. :)

[Rhys]

They have mention going after Steny Hoyer A Democrat with a RP Rep, Collins Bailey as his opponent. Also Lindsey Graham with a Conservative democrat Bob Conley as his opponent.

Either way people need to let others do their thing. This PAC is to generate support against VISA and to run ads against those who voted for it.

Quit being haters and dividing things. Remember this message should unite us.

I remember them Blimp Haters quit wasting your time stirring up negativity and do something positive. Noone is forcing anyone to donate to strangebedfellows and noone is forcing you to join BTM.

the message is irrelevantly to this discussion.

Is our dedication to the message getting us used? That's the question. We've all been used by a woman (or are a woman) and this feels the same.

[ItsTime]

I've always had a feeling that it was just some dems trying to get support from us...

HOWEVER... why blame BTM right now? How do you know BTM wasn't the one that was tricked by the leftists?

Anyway, here's a quote that the leftists never live up to and why I was opposed to this "coalition" from the beginning:

"The idea that political freedom can be preserved in the absence of economic freedom, and vice versa, is an illusion. Political freedom is the corollary of economic freedom."
- Ludwig von Mises

BTM with their super duper awesome hardcore lawsuit threatening lawyer get tricked??? Or "the expert in moneybomb" trevor get tricked???? :eek:

Another reason they should not proclaim themselves the voice of the R3volution.

[ItsTime]

oh and BTW Break the Marxist STILL has Strangebedfellow banners and ads flying even after this info!

[bucfish]

the message is irrelevantly to this discussion.

Is our dedication to the message getting us used? That's the question. We've all been used by a woman (or are a woman) and this feels the same.


Well that is your opinion. But why denouce it. Establishing freindships across party lines is hugh. And helps in showing how the message unites. I ask you this DO YOU SUPPORT FISA? I bet you do not and that is why the PAC got started to awaken people to this gross bill and how it attacks our civil liberties and privacy. Why not have the left help in donating to stop a bill that they also do not like?

[ItsTime]

Well that is your opinion. But why denouce it. Establishing freindships across party lines is hugh. And helps in showing how the message unites. I ask you this DO YOU SUPPORT FISA? I bet you do not and that is why the PAC got started to awaken people to this gross bill and how it attacks our civil liberties and privacy. Why not have the left help in donating to stop a bill that they also do not like?

because the bill already passed, and they are not holding the MAJOR players accountable like they said the would. ie Obama getting a free pass. The fact is the pac does not care about liberties or the fiasa bill or they would attack Obama over it.

[Imperial]

Trying to engage in Presidential Politics is something that requires a full-scale effort.

When one organization is building itself(the anti-FISA liberals) and another has donated much(Ron Paul supporters), do you really think $100,000 is REALLY going to make Obama suddenly lose the election?

Even if Obama lost, has McCain really been pro-FISA? Are they going to pour all that money then 3rd Party?

Are they all going to agree to be pro-3rd Party? If so, which 3rd party? Green or Libertarian? Or even Constitution or Nader?

Simply put, it is far simpler going after key Congressional spots. They want to influence the Congress as they said.

Either way, in November an anti-freedom president will be in Washington. THat isn't decided for every seat in Congress yet.

Now, don't jump the gun. the money hasn't been used as Brian said. We will see where it goes.

[Cowlesy]

Bryan --- I agree with all the points you've made.

There is one thing I have learned in this political process, stick with what you know.

This strangebedfellows stuff just didn't smell right to me from the beginning, so I veered away. I am still not sure what the deal is, but, I don't really care either way. I didn't donate to it, so no skin off my nose.

Stick with what you know. We all know you, and how hard you've worked over the past year and a half. So instead of throwing cash away at this strangbedfellows garbage, I just bought 25 Liberty Straw Poll tickets.

You have been extremely transparent from the moment you hatched the idea that the donations for these Straw Poll tickets (yes less transaction fees not even G*d could avoid) are going to go to the candidate on which we get to vote!

What a fantastic idea, not to mention an experiment in the power of the internet in fundraising.

I am very excited for September 17th!

[ItsTime]

Bryan --- I agree with all the points you've made.

There is one thing I have learned in this political process, stick with what you know.

This strangebedfellows stuff just didn't smell right to me from the beginning, so I veered away. I am still not sure what the deal is, but, I don't really care either way. I didn't donate to it, so no skin off my nose.

Stick with what you know. We all know you, and how hard you've worked over the past year and a half. So instead of throwing cash away at this strangbedfellows garbage, I just bought 25 Liberty Straw Poll tickets.

You have been extremely transparent from the moment you hatched the idea that the donations for these Straw Poll tickets (yes less transaction fees not even G*d could avoid) are going to go to the candidate on which we get to vote!

What a fantastic idea, not to mention an experiment in the power of the internet in fundraising.

I am very excited for September 17th!

+1

And for the record I have always been very happy with Ron Paul Forums and believe this has been the best tool for the R3volution. This is where all the best ideas came from and are still coming from. IE Liberty Straw Poll.

[Cowlesy]

+1

And for the record I have always been very happy with Ron Paul Forums and believe this has been the best tool for the R3volution. This is where all the best ideas came from and are still coming from. IE Liberty Straw Poll.

+1

Bryan has been extremely open-source about soliciting ideas and suggestions. People love to complain "well nobody asked me, *waaaaambulance*", but everyone on here has been able to volunteer ideas and input into the LSP.

I think this will be one of the reasons why the Liberty Straw Poll will be a resounding success.

Come on all of you reading this (I am sure Strangebedfellows folks are reading this, Rick Williams, Trevor, lurkers, etc), buy a freaking LSP ticket. Support an innovative grassroots project! They're extremely inexpensive, and this a way for all of you to participate and have it count toward a liberty candidate on which YOU get a say by purchasing a ticket!

[bucfish]

Why go after the big fish we gotta make change from the ground up. They would waste their money on Obama but can maybe sway three races or four. Get Hoyer, Graham, Pelosi out of office. Those three are up for election.

[RPTXState]

One of the biggest problems is that even though they're going to spend money attacking Hoyer, they won't mention Collins Bailey as an alternative because he is a Republican. The mentality of the Strangebedfellows leadership is "Support Anti-FISA Democrats, not Anti-FISA Republicans/Libertarians". THATS the problem - it's bipartisanship channeled into partisan politics.

[Imperial]

I actually would support LSP over this strangebedfellows moneybomb. I just don't think we should discredit it either.

[Cowlesy]

I actually would support LSP over this strangebedfellows moneybomb. I just don't think we should discredit it either.

"would"

How about support one so you can say "did"!

[ItsTime]

I actually would support LSP over this strangebedfellows moneybomb. I just don't think we should discredit it either.

stating facts is not discrediting it.

[Feelgood]

Establishing freindships across party lines is hugh. And helps in showing how the message unites.

Hmmm. You do realize you sound like John McCain there, right?! :rolleyes:

[rs3515]

It would be greatly appreciated if everyone can help promote both the Liberty Straw Poll and directly getting more candidates to post profiles on Freeople (if not planning to be part of the LSP).

The benefit of a candidate being on Freeople is two-fold: there is a lower transaction fee, plus visitors can donate to multiple candidates at a time. If someone has to go to three candidate sites to make donations, the credit card processors take their cut three times. By being able to bundle in one payment, *less* goes to the processor and more to the candidates.

www.libertystrawpoll.com
www.freeople.com

[JaylieWoW]

I've always had a feeling that it was just some dems trying to get support from us...

HOWEVER... why blame BTM right now? How do you know BTM wasn't the one that was tricked by the leftists?

Anyway, here's a quote that the leftists never live up to and why I was opposed to this "coalition" from the beginning:

"The idea that political freedom can be preserved in the absence of economic freedom, and vice versa, is an illusion. Political freedom is the corollary of economic freedom."
- Ludwig von Mises

QFT

Look, I've never been involved in politics in my whole life...

I can see how it would be easy to be led along by the nose... after all, the RP Grassroots is the most exciting thing I've ever encountered... politically wise.

Bottom line is we all have a lot to learn. I think we need to remember the one thing that drew us all to RP in the first place.. his impeccable record in protecting the constitution. We DO have a choice, and false flag bearers will be quickly routed. I take it as a complete compliment that political "insiders" would want to dupe us while giving them the finger at the same time. :rolleyes:

... the price for liberty is eternal vigilance...

Lady Liberty calling... are you deaf yet?

[bucfish]

Hmmm. You do realize you sound like John McCain there, right?! :rolleyes:

One difference I am not selling out my principles!!!

[me3]

Sometimes you get burned when reaching out and trying new things.

I'm confused at the moment.
No one is blaming you. Too bad ItsTime or anyone else with a beef didn't have the foresight to bring this up weeks ago.

Unfortunately, backseat drivers always have 20/20 hindsight.

You and Bryan do a kickass job, and if people have a problem with that, then they should put their money where their mouth is, and support the forum ChipIn.

Just my 2 cents (which has absolutely no purchasing power!)

[ItsTime]

No one is blaming you. Too bad ItsTime or anyone else with a beef didn't have the foresight to bring this up weeks ago.

Unfortunately, backseat drivers always have 20/20 hindsight.

You and Bryan do a kickass job, and if people have a problem with that, then they should put their money where their mouth is, and support the forum ChipIn.

Just my 2 cents (which has absolutely no purchasing power!)

I was fighting this tooth and nail since it started! Check my posting history in those threads. And some of my anti-bedfellow posts were deleted.

I privately emailed Josh asking him not to fly the banners. I respect RPF so I did not say anything when they were flying. I believe RPFs made some kinda banner trade, so something good did come of it.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=147537&highlight=strangebedfellow
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1575657&postcount=10

[amy31416]

+1

Bryan has been extremely open-source about soliciting ideas and suggestions. People love to complain "well nobody asked me, *waaaaambulance*", but everyone on here has been able to volunteer ideas and input into the LSP.

I think this will be one of the reasons why the Liberty Straw Poll will be a resounding success.

Come on all of you reading this (I am sure Strangebedfellows folks are reading this, Rick Williams, Trevor, lurkers, etc), buy a freaking LSP ticket. Support an innovative grassroots project! They're extremely inexpensive, and this a way for all of you to participate and have it count toward a liberty candidate on which YOU get a say by purchasing a ticket!

As far as donating, my standards are now absolute clarity in the proces and the money trail. The LSP qualifies as does the Walk4Freedom and donating directly to candidates.

If you can't donate, do a little by spreading the word and by getting at least one other person to donate.

[kigol]

:)

[constituent]

But one that likely will be lucrative for parties involved.


rofl.