Why the Republican Party

[Don]

As I have watched the discussion here on the forums unfold, there seems to be a great deal of disagreement about the best strategy for achieving our shared objectives. I would like to take a moment and lay out some of the strategic thinking that has gone into the decision by the C4L, Ron Paul, and our advisers to focus our efforts on the Republican Party and why we have rejected other avenues to achieve these goals.

Why the Republican Party?

As I have read through the posts here, I notice that the Republican Party is often assigned labels that ascribe qualities and characteristics attributable to an individual. They are "evil" or "authoritarian" or whatever. That is the same logic that gun rights opponents use to ascribe negative characteristics to weapons. We all know that it is not the gun itself that inherently possesses these characteristics, but the individual that wields it.

The same is true of a political party. The party is no more or less ethical, moral, or responsible than those that are in charge of it. I recently lost a friend to a drunk driver, I did not lose him to the inherent evil of automobiles.

In other words, the Republican Party is a tool. One of two tools in the system as it is now constructed that one may use to wield political power. The outcome of that use of political power is a function of those that use the tool, not the tool itself.

For our purposes, the Republican Party is the better tool of the two that are available to us for achieving our ends. One: many of us, including Dr. Paul and myself, ARE life-long Republicans. Two: much of our infrastructure and network interfaces with Republicans. Three: the Republican Party regulars are, on balance, more sympathetic to our ideas than the average Democrat.

Why not 3rd Party?

By way of analogy, the Republican Party is a boat and we are seeking to become the captain. The Constitution Party and the Libertarian Parties are building boats, but they lack the resources, labor, and knowledge necessary to completing their ships to make them competitive.

For example, the Federal Elections Commission (when full) is made up of 3 Democrats and 3 Republicans who collude to raise barriers to participation for alternative parties. Especially since Perot put a scare into the establishment back in 1992, this process has accelerated to such a degree that practical participation in national politics is almost impossible (save a few highly unlikely scenarios).

That is not to say that the CP and LP are irrelevant or useless. To the contrary, these, too, are tools, but they are tools with a different function. In this cycle, the minor parties serve a very important and valuable function...to take as many votes from McCain as humanly possible. Why? The Republican Coalition is only as strong as the bonds between its constituent parts. If western libertarians, southern traditionalists, mid-western conservatives, and evangelicals abandon the Party because of McCain, then the neo-con establishment (as the captain of the ship) will be discredited and weakened such that whomever is in a position to bring those parts back together in a new governing coalition would become the effective captain.

Hence, the objective of C4L is to develop a new governing coalition within the Republican Party that can lead public policy in the direction of Constitutional governance, free markets, non-interventionism, rights protection and sound money.

Until we are in charge and can affect the rules, we must play on the field as it is. Engaging in mystical thinking about the rise of a new third party or believing that somehow, after almost 40 years of irrelevance, with the rules more biased against them then ever, the LP is going to emerge as a majority party is just not realistic.

The LP and CP are not coalition parties (necessary to electoral success), they are constituent parts that, under the right circumstances, might find a reconstituted Republican Party that reflect the values that they extol appealing. Generations of republicans and independents are never going to adopt the totality of the LP or CP platform, but they will accept the ideas if they are seen as part of the mainstream, i.e. propagated through the RP.

[Jeremy]

I'm a Republican as are most people here (now). And I know there are some people who left 3rd parties to help restore the GOP again.


One: many of us, including Dr. Paul and myself, ARE life-long Republicans. Two: much of our infrastructure and network interfaces with Republicans. Three: the Republican Party regulars are, on balance, more sympathetic to our ideas than the average Democrat.

Four: The history of the Republican Party has all the real freedom fighters! =) Calvin Coolidge, Robert Taft, Barry Goldwater, Ron Paul, etc. Also, the party that Jefferson and Madison started was founded as the Republican Party. In my opinion the Dems wrongfully claim this to be their party... however, they were both republicans and Republicans. Also in my opinion, looking back at the big freedom icons in history, the one president we missed out on was Cleveland.

[Don]

I'm a little disappointed that this thread isn't getting a little more oxygen. I figured it would inspire some heated debate. I hope that means that we are all in agreement. :D

[Cowlesy]

Don --- takes a while. Sometimes you have to use the online bicycle pump to gain some attention.

Speaking of that, it looks like I need to do exactly that to thread where B.J. Lawson is renting a theater for the premiere of IOUSA, of which Ron Paul has cameos in I hear.

[acptulsa]

I'm a little disappointed that this thread isn't getting a little more oxygen. I figured it would inspire some heated debate. I hope that means that we are all in agreement. :D

Yes and no. Yes, what you say is true. No, we wouldn't rather go to all the trouble to win it over--we'd rather make another party competitive. And no, I'm not speaking for everyone, but I do think I'm speaking for many. A good gardener discards weeds roots and all and plants better seeds. I think on a deep level many of us would like to do the same. But we have had the proof for some time now that what you say about practicalities certainly seems to be true.

The Cherokees advise that the trail that looks steep and rocky will, in the end, always be the faster and easier trail. The trail that runs downhill and so look easier, on the other hand, will always be steeper and more tiring in the end.

[Jeremy]

Yes and no. Yes, what you say is true. No, we wouldn't rather go to all the trouble to win it over--we'd rather make another party competitive. And no, I'm not speaking for everyone, but I do think I'm speaking for many. A good gardener discards weeds roots and all and plants better seeds. I think on a deep level many of us would like to do the same. But we have had the proof for some time now that what you say about practicalities certainly seems to be true.

The Cherokees advise that the trail that looks steep and rocky will, in the end, always be the faster and easier trail. The trail that runs downhill and so look easier, on the other hand, will always be steeper and more tiring in the end.

Not only are you not speaking for everyone, you're speaking for the small minority. Most people here are more interested in restoring the Republican Party. I did a poll on this not too long ago.

[UtahApocalypse]

You know whats interesting. I never knew the "True" republican ideals until this campaign caught my interest. All I ever knew about the GOP was what I have seen in the past 5-10 years since actually watching, and caring about news. What has the GOP been in the last 10 years? Well for the most part it is the Neo-conservative platform. The thing I did not know then was that is not the true GOP. I now have learned much about the original charter and ideals of the Republican party. Thanks to this campaign, and Ron Paul I found out that I am a rebulican, its the GOP party that is not.

[Jeremy]

It's true that we are the republican branch of the Republican Party.

[tonesforjonesbones]

WElll you don't really get much attention if you post reasonable things...you have to post outlandish , class clown stuff or the post will go genly into cyberspace. tones

I was a life long republican until I saw how badly the GOP treated Ron Paul and I couldn't stomach it anymore. Now, if the GOP gets wiped out this election cycle and starts getting more liberty minded , paleoconservatives again, I'd go back...but if the neo conservatives remain in power..I would have to take my chances with the LP. Tones

[Thor]

I agree 1,000%.... Thanks for putting this out there Don.

There are a lot of "lets form a NEW 3rd party" ideas going around. And that is just putting a ton of energy into something that stands little chance of going anywhere. The LP has been a perfect example of 35+ years of such an effort. We should learn from the experiment that has already been conducted, instead of trying to do it again.

TRUE core Republican beliefs (back about 40 years and more) are aligned with our goals and values almost 100%. It is the recent "Republican" (neo-conservative) values that are out of whack with what a TRUE Republican is supposed to be. It is time to wake them up and bring them back, or kick them the hell out.

We have a 2 party system currently, like it or not. Most Americans will choose A or B, but add C and they get confused. The best strategy is to take over A or B, and only one of those 2 is supposedly for limited government, more freedoms, etc. And it ain't the donkey.

I think it is the only hope WE have at realizing our dreams of real freedom, limited government, true choice, and the responsibility that goes with those benefits.

I became excited by Perot in '92, and then when he went nutso (voodoo and chickens), I found the LP and had hope and excitement there; but after 15 years of nothing doing with the LP, I got discouraged (actually many years ago). But Ron Paul gave me hope and made me see how it CAN work. There is no other way we will reach our goals unless we are one of the "choose A or B" choices at EVERY level.

The CFL is the best strategy we got at making our dreams a reality. Like the LP, the RLC hasn't got much going either. We need to take the enthusiasm from this Presidential campaign that took the Internet by storm and ignite a fire that will burn long into the future.

Good post Don. Thanks!

[LibertyEagle]

I totally agree too, Don.

When we are successful at re-taking the Republican Party, it will look much different than it does today. As it will reflect the principles that we all came together to advance in this movement.

[nate895]

We should fight for control of the GOP, but we can't fight for long within the GOP if we are failing to breach into the bowels of the monster. If we cannot get control of the majority of the RNC (or be very close to gaining control) by the time the next presidential election comes around, we must either leave the party or be prepared to fight for much longer than it would take if we simply formed a new coalition. The GOP went from formation to the Presidency in six years' time. The GOP must be taken quickly or the time is ripe for a new party. The GOP is, after all, collapsing. The active GOP has shrunken and if a new party came along and stole the conservatives, it will collapse just as the Whigs did.

[Thor]

We should fight for control of the GOP, but we can't fight for long within the GOP if we are failing to breach into the bowels of the monster. If we cannot get control of the majority of the RNC (or be very close to gaining control) by the time the next presidential election comes around, we must either leave the party or be prepared to fight for much longer than it would take if we simply formed a new coalition. The GOP went from formation to the Presidency in six years' time. The GOP must be taken quickly or the time is ripe for a new party. The GOP is, after all, collapsing. The active GOP has shrunken and if a new party came along and stole the conservatives, it will collapse just as the Whigs did.

Did you ever go away from school for the summer and come back the next start of the school year and there were big changes? That is what it will be like come next presidential election when all the neo-cons return to the GOP... hopefully. :-)

[AJ Antimony]

My two cents:

People involved in this movement can associate themselves with whatever party they want. The good doctor is a Republican, so I'd imagine a lot of people will also be Republican.

I personally will not be. I registered Republican for one reason: to vote Paul in my state's closed primary. Following, I remained registered a Republican to try and make it to the state convention again to help Paul. Since then, I've seen nothing but evil and unfairness in almost every Republican state convention since. The party has made it clear they don't want people like me. Republicans aren't alone. The Democrats are also corrupt and would certainly treat Paul similarly if he was a Democratic presidential candidate.

So a few weeks ago I re-registered, and I did so only to change my party affiliation to what I would have done when I first registered if it weren't for the presidential primary: No party preference. Small 'i' independent. A Washington independent, as I call it.

I don't like any political party and would much rather not be tied down and/or controlled by one. I want to run for office one day and if I do, it will be as an independent. I know it will be VERY tough to win, but I like challenges like this. And if I choose to run, it'll only be a race I'm confident I could win. I would never run if I was going to get maybe 3-5%. I know what's a waste of time and what isn't.

[brandon]

Great explanation Don. I hope a lot of people read this. It took me many months to finally accept that I am now a Republican. :)

[Don]

We should fight for control of the GOP, but we can't fight for long within the GOP if we are failing to breach into the bowels of the monster. If we cannot get control of the majority of the RNC (or be very close to gaining control) by the time the next presidential election comes around, we must either leave the party or be prepared to fight for much longer than it would take if we simply formed a new coalition. The GOP went from formation to the Presidency in six years' time. The GOP must be taken quickly or the time is ripe for a new party. The GOP is, after all, collapsing. The active GOP has shrunken and if a new party came along and stole the conservatives, it will collapse just as the Whigs did.

This is very likely true, but even under your hypothetical scenario, the infrastructure, networks, data, relationships, etc. of the defunct party would still have significant value.

Hence, the reason this is, and should be, secondary to the current effort. I would, pending world events that change the calculus, give it a little longer time horizon than you are willing to. The next couple of election cycles will be telling, though. Can we elect the legislators and make the necessary in-roads within the non-elected apparatus by 2012? I hope so.

[Akus]

I think the main advantage we have and the true victory of our ideals will come when the typical GOP rank and file simply dies of old age. I am not kidding. Every GOP club I went to, I am the youngest by decades.

I am too, for rebuilding GOP, not because I care about it, I don't, they can all burn in hell for all I care, but because this is where the majority of this force Ron Paul has cultivated is going.

In my dream world, there has never been a better time to join Libertarian party as if we were truly serious about making some waves, we could have made it a relevant player in the game simply by the sheer force of our numbers. But just like I know that a bumper sticker and a youtube video of Ron Paul saying something to the dramatic music is as close to the support as an average Joe is gonna get, I also know that people will find million excuses not to vote for the new kid on the block (the LP, not the band).:rolleyes:

So I stick with GOP.

[CUnknown]

As long as none of us vote Republican or Democrat, we win. There's no reason to vote for Obama, he does nothing for us. McCain is obviously the antithesis of this movement, and I'm sure no one here would vote for him.

Ron Paul Republicans and Ron Paul Democrats are of course okay, though.

[nate895]

This is very likely true, but even under your hypothetical scenario, the infrastructure, networks, data, relationships, etc. of the defunct party would still have significant value.

Hence, the reason this is, and should be, secondary to the current effort. I would, pending world events that change the calculus, give it a little longer time horizon than you are willing to. The next couple of election cycles will be telling, though. Can we elect the legislators and make the necessary in-roads within the non-elected apparatus by 2012? I hope so.

Yes, they would have significant value, but the GOP might still "exist" for a period of time after they collapse, just as the Whigs "existed" (under several different names) until the 1870's, when the Southern Democrats took them in after they made one last attempt to reorganize the party. The GOP's infrastructure will go wherever its leaders would go, and given the current state of affairs, I wouldn't be surprised that even if we took every post in the GOP from PCO to National Chairman, the infrastructure suddenly disappeared.

[klamath]

We should fight for control of the GOP, but we can't fight for long within the GOP if we are failing to breach into the bowels of the monster. If we cannot get control of the majority of the RNC (or be very close to gaining control) by the time the next presidential election comes around, we must either leave the party or be prepared to fight for much longer than it would take if we simply formed a new coalition. The GOP went from formation to the Presidency in six years' time. The GOP must be taken quickly or the time is ripe for a new party. The GOP is, after all, collapsing. The active GOP has shrunken and if a new party came along and stole the conservatives, it will collapse just as the Whigs did.

When people think the republican party is done it shows a lack of knowledge of history. If you think it is bad now what do you think it was like when Johnson defeated Goldwater with 61% of the vote 1964. The senate had a filabuster proof majority for the democrats and the house was overwhelmingly democratic. 20 years later Reagan won 49 states against Mondale. If Obama runs the country over the edge with socialism and keeps us involved in the foreign wars, in 2012 or 2016 the Republicans will be back and it will be up to us to see that it is a party we can vote for unlike this year.

[nate895]

When people think the republican party is done it shows a lack of knowledge of history. If you think it is bad now what do you think it was like when Johnson defeated Goldwater with 60% of the vote 1964. The senate had a filabuster proof majority for the democrats and the house was overwhelmingly democratic. 20 years later Reagan won 49 states against Mondale. If Obama is runs the country over the edge with socialism and keeps us involved in the foreign wars, in 2012 or 2016 the Republicans will be back and it will be up to us to see that it is a party we can vote for unlike this year.

But, the party was rallied. Conservatives loved Goldwater and much of the rest of the party. They don't love McCain, nor the majority of their Congressmen or Senators. They are pissed, and conservative third parties are consistently polling very high among Republicans. In fact, in my neighboring State of Oregon, the Constitution Party candidate for Senate is at 8% in the polls. Bob Barr is polling around 5% (some polls as low as 2%, some as high as 10%), and the party leadership is under attack on three fronts. The GOP cannot survive a strong third party, they are barely going to survive a weak one.

[klamath]

But, the party was rallied. Conservatives loved Goldwater and much of the rest of the party. They don't love McCain, nor the majority of their Congressmen or Senators. They are pissed, and conservative third parties are consistently polling very high among Republicans. In fact, in my neighboring State of Oregon, the Constitution Party candidate for Senate is at 8% in the polls. Bob Barr is polling around 5% (some polls as low as 2%, some as high as 10%), and the party leadership is under attack on three fronts. The GOP cannot survive a strong third party, they are barely going to survive a weak one.

If you call this a rallied party I most be missing something.

The United States presidential election of 1964 was one of the most lopsided presidential elections in the history of the United States. President Lyndon B. Johnson had come to office less than a year earlier upon the assassination of his predecessor, John F. Kennedy, and Johnson had successfully associated himself with Kennedy's popularity. Johnson also successfully painted his opponent, Republican Senator Barry Goldwater of Arizona, as a right-wing legislator who wanted to abolish the social welfare programs created in the 1930s (such as Social Security). Johnson also claimed that Goldwater might plunge the country into nuclear warfare with the Soviet Union. With these factors working for him, Johnson easily won the Presidency, carrying 44 of the 50 states and the District of Columbia. As of 2007, Johnson's 22.6 percentage point-margin of victory in the popular vote is the fifth-largest such margin in Presidential election history (after the margins of the 1920 election, 1924 election, 1936 election, and 1972 election). Johnson won 61.1% of the national popular vote, which was the highest popular-vote percentage won by a U.S.presidential candidate since 1820.

[klamath]

The senate balance in 1964.

The U.S. Senate election, 1964 was an election for the United States Senate which coincided with the election of President Lyndon B. Johnson by an overwhelming majority. His Democratic Party picked up a net two seats from the Republicans. As of 2006, this is the last time either party has had a two-thirds majority in the Senate, although with a Democratic president the ability to override a veto or impeach a President was not particularly relevant. However, since invoking cloture still required a two-thirds majority, the Democratic majority was able to overcome any filibuster, providing that party loyalty held.

The US house.

The U.S. House election, 1964 was an election for the United States House of Representatives in 1964 which coincided with the re-election of President Lyndon Johnson. Johnson's landslide victory over Barry Goldwater allowed his Democratic Party to gain a net of 36 seats from the Republican Party, giving them a two-thirds majority in the House. This is (as of 2007) the largest House majority held by either party since World War II.

[mediahasyou]

Parties are collectivist. Vote for individuals. Declare independence from the collectivist system.

[Chris_Augustine]

Don, I agree with you. After talking to my state CfL coordinator I saw the light. I just switched back to being a Republican (from Libertarian) today. The Republican party is a shell of its former self. Ready to be made in our image. I for one look forward to running for County School Board next year as a Ron Paul Republican.

But I will say that the major strategy of CfL is lost on the general Ron Paul populace. The mission statement needs to be brought to bear on the Ron Paulites. This movement is about reforming the Republican party, nothing else.

[KenInMontiMN]

Where the difficulty comes in is that so many of us are here from other directions and not formerly loyal GOP supporters, nor will we ever stomach being that until that transformation of the party actually occurs. What's more, no such transformation can occur as long as the party keeps winning at the highest level. If McCain pulls this out then the neocons are vindicated by the results. If he loses badly then the seeds are planted for a changing of the guard. So especially for those in the states where it looks very close on the eve of the election, what do you do? Follow your heart and pick your favorite small-party candidate, or hold your nose and cast a vote for Obama to expedite the cause? I'm hoping like hell Obama has a decent lead in late Oct. here in Mn, just so I don't have to even consider casting a vote for him, and feeling like one more lemming! (LOL, thanks Jesse for that!)

[Chris_Augustine]

From what I've heard in NC, if we could have had enough people at the conventions we could have taken over the party outright. Support for the Republican party is minimal. The bible-toters are sulking. Only real support is corporatists.

[pacelli]

Don,

Thanks for the post and my condolences for the recent loss of your friend.

I think one of the reasons that perhaps this thread is not getting as much traction as one might expect is fear-- people on these forums love debating and arguing about how things *should* be, but when an actual representative of Ron Paul is here, it is akin to a cop rolling up on a group of people spray painting the side of a boxcar. All of a sudden, everyone is perfectly innocent and nobody saw or did anything ;)

I will say, as a lifelong Republican, that I am extremely discouraged at the reports that came in from various state conventions around the US about the games which were played by members of the party's establishment to intentionally exclude the new Ron Paul republicans from the meetings. We've seen numerous examples on these very forums about people walking away from their state conventions feeling like they were tared and feathered as soon as they stepped in.

Many walked away from our movement and the republican party, some going to the most popular socialist kid across the street.

I firmly believe that the media coverage for the Rally for the Republic will either make or break the CFL in the eyes of the public. I must say that I am highly skeptical about trusting the media, considering the treatment we got during the majority of Ron's PCC. The rally will either be hailed by the media as our grand entrance into the political realm, or our celebratory 'Paulite-style' exit from the presidential campaign. I truly hope that it will be the former, rather than the latter.

My plan is to stay with the Republican party and stick with the CFL - my eyes are opened and I cannot close them again. However, if we expect to have more political success within the republican party as opposed to an independent or third party, then it will be important for us to hold those within the party responsible for their misdeeds.

[Don]

My plan is to stay with the Republican party and stick with the CFL - my eyes are opened and I cannot close them again. However, if we expect to have more political success within the republican party as opposed to an independent or third party, then it will be important for us to hold those within the party responsible for their misdeeds.

Yup.

[nate895]

The senate balance in 1964.

The U.S. Senate election, 1964 was an election for the United States Senate which coincided with the election of President Lyndon B. Johnson by an overwhelming majority. His Democratic Party picked up a net two seats from the Republicans. As of 2006, this is the last time either party has had a two-thirds majority in the Senate, although with a Democratic president the ability to override a veto or impeach a President was not particularly relevant. However, since invoking cloture still required a two-thirds majority, the Democratic majority was able to overcome any filibuster, providing that party loyalty held.

The US house.

The U.S. House election, 1964 was an election for the United States House of Representatives in 1964 which coincided with the re-election of President Lyndon Johnson. Johnson's landslide victory over Barry Goldwater allowed his Democratic Party to gain a net of 36 seats from the Republican Party, giving them a two-thirds majority in the House. This is (as of 2007) the largest House majority held by either party since World War II.

Yes, but the party rallied and won the next several election cycles, nobody was out yelling that the party is dead or dying, some people within the GOP of today have already began to say that. And there is nothing that can kill a party easier than a President from that party angering the base beyond repair. That is what happened to the Whig Party and its Northern base. The GOP can have 3 seats in the Senate and 97 in the House and they can still keep together (probably as a third party) if the base is satisfied with what those Senators and Representatives are doing, and the party tries to win. Also, I believe that we are coming upon a period of time that will be even more unstable than the 1960's ever thought of being. The people are pissed off and they won't take it for much longer.

[RPTXState]

One of the serious problems that is driving poeple away from a long-term commitment to reform the GOP is the "long-term" part. Many of us where looking for a quick fix without realizing that things like abolishing the IRS, ending the deficit, or even getting into Washington are incredibly difficult and will take decades. And some poeple are so paranoid that an "obvious Police State" is literally tomorrow they won't bunker down and take the time to solve long-term problems, and instead keep on looking for the non-existent quick fix.

In general, most of the poeple who are "anti-Republican Party reforming" are the ones who believe the sky is falling today and in 4 years we simply won't have elections, or the Constitution, and we'll be under constant martial law, etc...

[LibertyEagle]

I became excited by Perot in '92, and then when he went nutso (voodoo and chickens),

I know this is off-topic, but are you kidding about this? :eek:

[scrosnoe]

Many of us are Republicans - Restoring the Republic (R3publicans (http://www.freeople.com/group/r3publicans)!).

[klamath]

Yes, but the party rallied and won the next several election cycles, nobody was out yelling that the party is dead or dying, some people within the GOP of today have already began to say that. And there is nothing that can kill a party easier than a President from that party angering the base beyond repair. That is what happened to the Whig Party and its Northern base. The GOP can have 3 seats in the Senate and 97 in the House and they can still keep together (probably as a third party) if the base is satisfied with what those Senators and Representatives are doing, and the party tries to win. Also, I believe that we are coming upon a period of time that will be even more unstable than the 1960's ever thought of being. The people are pissed off and they won't take it for much longer.

Actually I am sure that many said the republican party was dead after goldwater's defeat. After every major party defeat you hear that that party is dead. The republican party is not dead and in 2010 and 2012 it will still be a powerful player.
Remember my words and if I am wrong you can come back and say I told you so.:D

[nate895]

Actually I am sure that many said the republican party was dead after goldwater's defeat. After every major party defeat you hear that that party is dead. The republican party is not dead and in 2010 and 2012 it will still be a powerful player.
Remember my words and if I am wrong you can come back and say I told you so.:D

I didn't say it would be dead by next election cycle, I said that if we organize a strong third party if our attempts to break into the GOP behemoth fail, the GOP will eventually be eliminated as a political force, or be relegated to competitive third party status. I have found no suggestions that there were calls that the party was dead after Goldwater's failure from anywhere but the Northeastern liberal elite in the party, and most of the rest of the party hated them anyway. I'm not saying the GOP will go away on its own, it won't, but if we organized a strong conservative opposition party (especially in the event of a McCain presidency), it will either die completely or have to find anew base.

[Leadman584]

The Republican party is in desperate need of a "Wake Up Call".

Sen. Obama will definitely win the Presidency. The Republicans have proffered the worst possible of candidates. Perhaps on purpose.

I see on these boards that folks can't vote for Bob Barr, because he's not Ron Paul. There is only one. It took over 30 years of fighting the PTB for Dr. Paul to gain the attention he has.

I submit that Bob Barr is the most Republican of the available choices. Far from ideal compared to Ron Paul, he's the better of the available choices for a Republican voter. He's actually on the ballot. Chuck Baldwin may be closer to the values of many here. He won't be on the ballot in many states.

In the short term, the Republican party needs a reminder of it's former values. A strong showing for Bob Barr can bring this, and even possibly bring a 3rd party into the mainstream. I don't entirely trust the guy, but I don't see him as a lesser evil either.

[alaric]

as a lifelong republican living in the peoples republik of NJ, i have seen what the pathetic excuse for the NJGOP did to Sabrin and before him, to Schundler. It is possible that a stealth democrat RP'er might have a better chance of getting in. The NJGOP has a policy of back stabbing its RP-type candidates even more than the dems do. But i still remain a republican here.

[Aratus]

the party had a philosophy at
its core that was very democratic

[tonesforjonesbones]

I see that Bob Barr didn't make it on the ballot in WV...too bad. They have a lawsuit going, it's a shame what the 2 parties have done to block any third party from gaining any ground. With any luck, the republicans will be wiped out in November and there will be room to get better people in. We have to get rid of the neo con element...that is what ruined the party and I can't go back until it has been purged. Tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

One more thing...there is a lot of buzz about Jesse Ventura for 2012...I hope he can keep on the good path..if so, we might have a viable republican candidate..is he a republican???? tones

[kigol]

Bob Barr FTW

[speciallyblend]

i hear you ,but if mccain wins , i would have to say all the plans in the world to take back the gop will have gone by the wayside, so i hope the cfl will start considering a unified lp/cp with the rp republicans. If mccain loses your strategy might work,but in the end if mccain wins then i say the movement will be dead in the republican party!!!!! it is up to us to understand that all 3 movements will be marginalized by the gop/mccain folks if we do nothing now. but everyone has this wait and see attitude because it isn't about us yet, It is about the Lp being the Lp and the Cp being the Cp and the ron paul republicans being republicans, until we get rid of this mindset, all 3 Will fail until we unite.............. This movement will be back to square one if mccain wins:( . My idea ?well get the leaders of the ron paul revolution grassroots and the grassroots of the cp/lp and demand the leadership(including ron paul) in all 3 parties open their eyes to reality, or reality will bite US ALL IN THE ASS NOW AND AFTER THE ELECTION , everyone needs to swallow their pride and ego's in this movement,

The People as well as I DEMAND A NEW PARTY , A NEW PLATFORM, that crosses all parties lines. It is possible but when you put the human element into it(then you have all the problems) I predict it will be the lp/cp and the republicans who ignore this simple solution(this revolution movement is bigger the the lp/cp or even ron paul just most people wanted nothing to do with the septic tank of the gop!!!!) and they(lp/cp,(former republicans) continue down the path of their party /my party ,instead of our party.....

I'm coming to the rally for the republic, I expect BIG THINGS ,but in reality will have to be happy with small things.... unless they unite these political factions....the brand names of republican/lp/cp will go nowhere for our movement,since all 3 marginalize each other, we all seem to have the blinders on,but ooo well, can debate about it now,but after election if mccain wins. It will not even be debatable........ GIVE US A NEW BRAND NAME and include all the activists in all 3 parties minus the neo-cons and you would have a large 3rd party that would poll about 15% to 30% in many states.. It is such an easy solution,until you include the human equation:(

[tonesforjonesbones]

Well, I would be for a new party that encompasses all three. tones

[Ozwest]

Republicans = Democrats. Democrats = Republicans.

Spearmint or Peppermint.

Why bother?

Ron Paul = Juicy Fruit. A new flavor sensation!

[Kade]

I am going to stay out of this one. Everyone is well aware of how I view the GOP.

[nate895]

i hear you ,but if mccain wins , i would have to say all the plans in the world to take back the gop will have gone by the wayside, so i hope the cfl will start considering a unified lp/cp with the rp republicans. If mccain loses your strategy might work,but in the end if mccain wins then i say the movement will be dead in the republican party!!!!! it is up to us to understand that all 3 movements will be marginalized by the gop/mccain folks if we do nothing now. but everyone has this wait and see attitude because it isn't about us yet, It is about the Lp being the Lp and the Cp being the Cp and the ron paul republicans being republicans, until we get rid of this mindset, all 3 Will fail until we unite.............. This movement will be back to square one if mccain wins:( . My idea ?well get the leaders of the ron paul revolution grassroots and the grassroots of the cp/lp and demand the leadership(including ron paul) in all 3 parties open their eyes to reality, or reality will bite US ALL IN THE ASS NOW AND AFTER THE ELECTION , everyone needs to swallow their pride and ego's in this movement,

The People as well as I DEMAND A NEW PARTY , A NEW PLATFORM, that crosses all parties lines. It is possible but when you put the human element into it(then you have all the problems) I predict it will be the lp/cp and the republicans who ignore this simple solution(this revolution movement is bigger the the lp/cp or even ron paul just most people wanted nothing to do with the septic tank of the gop!!!!) and they(lp/cp,(former republicans) continue down the path of their party /my party ,instead of our party.....

I'm coming to the rally for the republic, I expect BIG THINGS ,but in reality will have to be happy with small things.... unless they unite these political factions....the brand names of republican/lp/cp will go nowhere for our movement,since all 3 marginalize each other, we all seem to have the blinders on,but ooo well, can debate about it now,but after election if mccain wins. It will not even be debatable........ GIVE US A NEW BRAND NAME and include all the activists in all 3 parties minus the neo-cons and you would have a large 3rd party that would poll about 15% to 30% in many states.. It is such an easy solution,until you include the human equation:(

I agree. I would also say that if we formed a strong third party, a McCain presidency might be the end of major party status for the GOP.

[Thor]

I agree. I would also say that if we formed a strong third party, a McCain presidency might be the end of major party status for the GOP.

The obsicals for a 3rd party are huge. Ballot access issues alone can wipe people out collecting signatures for EACH election to be on the ballot. Inclusion in debates, etc. The LP has beena great example of a 3rd party going no where.

It would be far easier overall to just take control of the GOP. Then you get all the sheeple who are GOP 1 time per year (like the Catholics that go to church on Christmas only) to vote for you, even though the goals are changed to be more true to original GOP values, if we are drving the boat.

I am all for taking back the GOP and NOT another 3rd party energy drain that does diddly....

[nate895]

The obsicals for a 3rd party are huge. Ballot access issues alone can wipe people out collecting signatures for EACH election to be on the ballot. Inclusion in debates, etc. The LP has beena great example of a 3rd party going no where.

It would be far easier overall to just take control of the GOP. Then you get all the sheeple who are GOP 1 time per year (like the Catholics that go to church on Christmas only) to vote for you, even though the goals are changed to be more true to original GOP values, if we are drving the boat.

I am all for taking back the GOP and NOT another 3rd party energy drain that does diddly....

If you hadn't noticed, I'm saying if we cannot succeed in the party. I highly doubt we will succeed within the party, the leadership will not give up without a fight and they very well might win it. Also, the GOP started out as a third party. Nothing could be better for a third party than for a Presidency that angers the party of the President's base, and McCain will almost assuredly anger the base as President (immigration, taxes, etc.). Though, we would need to invite people to be allies who aren't on our side as of yet. Conservatives are angry at the GOP and if we could give them a home outside of the GOP, they might just flock to it.

[Thor]

If you hadn't noticed, I'm saying if we cannot succeed in the party. I highly doubt we will succeed within the party, the leadership will not give up without a fight and they very well might win it. Also, the GOP started out as a third party. Nothing could be better for a third party than for a Presidency that angers the party of the President's base, and McCain will almost assuredly anger the base as President (immigration, taxes, etc.). Though, we would need to invite people to be allies who aren't on our side as of yet. Conservatives are angry at the GOP and if we could give them a home outside of the GOP, they might just flock to it.

You might be right, but I don't know if I agree. The LP started as an alternative to the GOP and did nothing. Will the "leadership" of the GOP be opposed to us taking over? Maybe, depends upon how we position it and ourselves. If we are just Republicans who are Republicans like the rest of them, we can win leadership roles. Will it happen in 6 months timeline? No, but it can happen. The Christian Conservative Neo-Con's took the party over, so why can't we?

It is a fight worth fighting inside the GOP to take over the leadership, and then if we don't win we will have a bigger following that might make a 3rd party option a better choice, but right now, it is much tougher I think to start a 3rd party and go anywhere. I think we CAN win inside the GOP. Many are open to our ideas (without the "Ron Paul" name attached to it, as surveys have shown. - Same exact questions with one mentioning Ron Paul, and one not, and the answers are overwhelmingly in support of the ideas, and plummet when the name "Ron Paul" is attached)

I think the CFL is right on track.... It is far easier in sales to take over existing accounts than cold call for new ones. Sure, you still have to work it, but it is easier to take over the established ground work.

[Feenix566]

The Christian Conservative Neo-Con's took the party over, so why can't we?


Historically, Christian Conservatives have been much better organized than libertarians have been. They have weekly meetings and their own television shows. Oh and let's not forget the religious ferver.

But now that we have the Internet as a communication tool, libertarians are getting more organized. Ron Paul proved that. This web site and the Campaign for Liberty are important steps in that path. Eventually we'll be as well organized and known. In time, we'll be organized enough to take over the Republican party.

[Menthol Patch]

Trying to change the Republican Party from the ground up will not work.

The USA is blazing towards a North American Union and a complete tyranny at 100 miles per hour.

The only thing that can change it is a true principled Libertarian becoming President.

And I do NOT mean a neocon like Bob Barr.

[Ozwest]

Historically, Christian Conservatives have been much better organized than libertarians have been. They have weekly meetings and their own television shows. Oh and let's not forget the religious ferver.

But now that we have the Internet as a communication tool, libertarians are getting more organized. Ron Paul proved that. This web site and the Campaign for Liberty are important steps in that path. Eventually we'll be as well organized and known. In time, we'll be organized enough to take over the Republican party.

I hate to say it, but Libertarians will never be organized enough to make an impact in a significant way without a significant rallying leader.

It saddens me to say that...

[alaric]

i hear you ,but if mccain wins , i would have to say all the plans in the world to take back the gop will have gone by the wayside, so i hope the cfl will start considering a unified lp/cp with the rp republicans. If mccain loses your strategy might work,but in the end if mccain wins then i say the movement will be dead in the republican party!!!!! it is up to us to understand that all 3 movements will be marginalized by the gop/mccain folks if we do nothing now. but everyone has this wait and see attitude because it isn't about us yet, It is about the Lp being the Lp and the Cp being the Cp and the ron paul republicans being republicans, until we get rid of this mindset, all 3 Will fail until we unite.............. This movement will be back to square one if mccain wins:( . My idea ?well get the leaders of the ron paul revolution grassroots and the grassroots of the cp/lp and demand the leadership(including ron paul) in all 3 parties open their eyes to reality, or reality will bite US ALL IN THE ASS NOW AND AFTER THE ELECTION , everyone needs to swallow their pride and ego's in this movement,

The People as well as I DEMAND A NEW PARTY , A NEW PLATFORM, that crosses all parties lines. It is possible but when you put the human element into it(then you have all the problems) I predict it will be the lp/cp and the republicans who ignore this simple solution(this revolution movement is bigger the the lp/cp or even ron paul just most people wanted nothing to do with the septic tank of the gop!!!!) and they(lp/cp,(former republicans) continue down the path of their party /my party ,instead of our party.....

I'm coming to the rally for the republic, I expect BIG THINGS ,but in reality will have to be happy with small things.... unless they unite these political factions....the brand names of republican/lp/cp will go nowhere for our movement,since all 3 marginalize each other, we all seem to have the blinders on,but ooo well, can debate about it now,but after election if mccain wins. It will not even be debatable........ GIVE US A NEW BRAND NAME and include all the activists in all 3 parties minus the neo-cons and you would have a large 3rd party that would poll about 15% to 30% in many states.. It is such an easy solution,until you include the human equation:(

thank you for this! We need to get a candidate that appeals to as many of the lp/cp/rprepublican as possible, so as not to fragment our votes.

[tonesforjonesbones]

Christian Neoconservatives? You got that wrong. The Neoconservative movement were primarily jewish, Paul Dundes Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, Abrams, Schiff, etc etc...there might be a couple of "so called " Christians thrown in the mix...I don't know about Rumsfeld or Jeb Bush...but the neoconservative movement was started by a jew, Irving Kristol...his son BIll Kristol is also hugely involved. Why do people yack when they don't know what they are talking about? Furthermore, the neoconservatives have loyalty to Israel first. You need to study more dude. Tones

[tonesforjonesbones]

AND to add to that, the neoconservatives were all left wing fringe bolshevik democrats. They became disgusted with the left wing movement because the liberals are the peaceniks....these guys wanted blood and guts and war...so they infiltrated the GOP and took it over. The foreign policy you see today is PNAC stuff..the neoconservative think tank. Tones

[Ozwest]

AND to add to that, the neoconservatives were all left wing fringe bolshevik democrats. They became disgusted with the left wing movement because the liberals are the peaceniks....these guys wanted blood and guts and war...so they infiltrated the GOP and took it over. The foreign policy you see today is PNAC stuff..the neoconservative think tank. Tones

Spot on!

[Soccrmastr]

The whole Ron Paul movement was from the start and will continue to be a Republican Party Reform movement.

[Thor]

Christian Neoconservatives? You got that wrong. The Neoconservative movement were primarily jewish, Paul Dundes Wolfowitz, Feith, Perle, Abrams, Schiff, etc etc...there might be a couple of "so called " Christians thrown in the mix...I don't know about Rumsfeld or Jeb Bush...but the neoconservative movement was started by a jew, Irving Kristol...his son BIll Kristol is also hugely involved. Why do people yack when they don't know what they are talking about? Furthermore, the neoconservatives have loyalty to Israel first. You need to study more dude. Tones

Does the comma make it better for you, "dude"?

The Christian Conservative, Neo-Con's took the party over, so why can't we?

Or an ampersand?

The Christian Conservative & Neo-Con's took the party over, so why can't we?

There are a lot of "Christian Conservatives" that have taken the neo-con line hook line and sinker. I don't care who "started it". (Oh wait, "hook, line and sinker" - just so you don't think it is a "hook line")

[bucfish]

bump, Good Job Don, If the LP and CP swelled the ranks of the GOP they would have a real nice ship to captain!

[nate895]

You might be right, but I don't know if I agree. The LP started as an alternative to the GOP and did nothing. Will the "leadership" of the GOP be opposed to us taking over? Maybe, depends upon how we position it and ourselves. If we are just Republicans who are Republicans like the rest of them, we can win leadership roles. Will it happen in 6 months timeline? No, but it can happen. The Christian Conservative Neo-Con's took the party over, so why can't we?

It is a fight worth fighting inside the GOP to take over the leadership, and then if we don't win we will have a bigger following that might make a 3rd party option a better choice, but right now, it is much tougher I think to start a 3rd party and go anywhere. I think we CAN win inside the GOP. Many are open to our ideas (without the "Ron Paul" name attached to it, as surveys have shown. - Same exact questions with one mentioning Ron Paul, and one not, and the answers are overwhelmingly in support of the ideas, and plummet when the name "Ron Paul" is attached)

I think the CFL is right on track.... It is far easier in sales to take over existing accounts than cold call for new ones. Sure, you still have to work it, but it is easier to take over the established ground work.

The reason why the LP and CP have gone nowhere fast is because they 2 million dollars (500K for the CP) over the past few election cycles to get across their message. If they had even half as much as Democrats or Republicans, they'd be the majority party (the average third party dollar is more effective than major party dollar, more than twice as much on average).

[Thor]

The reason why the LP and CP have gone nowhere fast is because they 2 million dollars (500K for the CP) over the past few election cycles to get across their message. If they had even half as much as Democrats or Republicans, they'd be the majority party (the average third party dollar is more effective than major party dollar, more than twice as much on average).

I think just about every American is aware of the Libertarian Party. While they might not know everything about what it stands for or means, they have heard of it. If they were more successful at interesting people, they would have more money.

Go where the money is already coming in, and take it over. Far better strategy.

[Kade]

Wrong thread. =/

[nate895]

I think just about every American is aware of the Libertarian Party. While they might not know everything about what it stands for or means, they have heard of it. If they were more successful at interesting people, they would have more money.

Go where the money is already coming in, and take it over. Far better strategy.

You think the money will still be flowing in like it is now if we take over the GOP? You are fooling yourself if you think that will be the case. We will either be successful as a third party, or we will take over the GOP, and make the GOP into a third party if we couldn't succeed as a third party.

BTW, not everyone knows of the LP, just hard right conservatives who wind up voting for the lesser of two evils because the LP guy never gets any money, and they don't give any money because they want to see success first. It's a self-perpetuating cycle.

[Feenix566]

I hate to say it, but Libertarians will never be organized enough to make an impact in a significant way without a significant rallying leader.

It saddens me to say that...

I disagree. We got pretty organized with those money bombs. We proved our whole theory of spontaneous organization without the assistance of central planning.

We're trying to convince everyone that our economy with spontaneously organize itself in the absense of central economic planning, right? Our message won't be very effective until we can at least do that ourselves.

[tonesforjonesbones]

The christians are brainwashed like 98% of America. They are concerned with issues like abortion...they are not neo cons. They are sheep. They listen to their ministers who think Israel should be protected at all costs...and they have fallen into the trap of believing the tabloid media which floods the airwaves with scenes of muslims rioting. They demonize the muslims. I'm not saying they aren't rioting somewhere , sometime..but the atrocities that Israel has put forth to the Palestinians , like Israeli soldiers driving through Palestinian settlements shooting children, are never presented on tv. Don't you find it odd that there is never anything like that reported? This stuff about israel and the bad things they do always gets swept under the carpet. Where is the balance? There are two sides to every story ...just remember that, and stop blaming the christians because they aren't the warmongers. They are the ones over there fighting, but it's because they have been brainwashed and lied to like everyone else. Blame PNAC. Tones

[michigan wolverine]

The trouble we have is that far to many people on this board have no concept on how to take over a party. Some have come in and aleinate everybody that was not involved in the Ron Paul Campaign. It does little good to take over a party and everyone else leaves then we are stuck in the same boat as the third party candidates. We have to learn to do our homework.

[Feenix566]

The trouble we have is that far to many people on this board have no concept on how to take over a party. Some have come in and aleinate everybody that was not involved in the Ron Paul Campaign. It does little good to take over a party and everyone else leaves then we are stuck in the same boat as the third party candidates. We have to learn to do our homework.

I agree. We need more education about the internal workings of the GOP.

[torchbearer]

The trouble we have is that far to many people on this board have no concept on how to take over a party. Some have come in and aleinate everybody that was not involved in the Ron Paul Campaign. It does little good to take over a party and everyone else leaves then we are stuck in the same boat as the third party candidates. We have to learn to do our homework.

Who alienated who again?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvd32V7WdoE

Perhaps you missed the whole louisiana thing prior to super tuesday. we had this state won. They found a way to not count 600 of our caucus votes by bring a voter list that ended Nov 1st when the cut off date was Nov30th. Guess which candidate had a bunch of people switch over the final week in November?
Then they didn't even announce those dates until after they had passed.

After we filed our complete slate of delegates, the state chairman, without a vote from the central committee(as per rules) extended the dates of qualifying to allow others to get on the ballot to combat this problem of "newcomers" who were taking the "Rightful delegate seats" from party hacks.

The credentials committee was made up of the illegally elected delegates, so they votes ours uncredentialed, and said our case was well made, but oh well.

[Revolution9]

Not only are you not speaking for everyone, you're speaking for the small minority. Most people here are more interested in restoring the Republican Party. I did a poll on this not too long ago.

This place is somewhat tolerable now that many of the third party weenie widgets left for "greener" and more "libertarian" pastures, or drifted to the theocratic heaven of the CP.. The ship analogy is dead on. Ron is the only American running for President. Obama is Indonesian with a forged birth certificate/berth certificate. His father would not be called "Race = African" in 1960. The term at that point in time on all official documents was "Negro"..then "Black"..then in the 90's "African". McCain is Panamanian berthed.

Best Regards
Randy

[acptulsa]

Parties are collectivist. Vote for individuals. Declare independence from the collectivist system.

Sounds good. The problem is if you're just a working Joe you simply do not have the resources you need to get elected dogcatcher. Parties exist and get candidates in office because they work. A stronger case for reclaiming the G.O.P. I can't imagine--and you don't have to spend much time working with a n00b candidate for a local office to see the advantages.

Besides, there are already people in the G.O.P. fighting to reform it. Unless and until you get active, you don't see them or know they are there. But they are, and they have learned the ropes and earned respect.

A good gardener pulls the weeds out by the roots. But, in fact, the roots aren't really the problem with weeds, are they?

The party has utterly failed the presidential race. Nothing about McCain today is anything but a massive fail. I suppose the biggest complaint about the two party system is it works. If we can teach it how to work for us, that would be our fastest route to our goals--whether we like it or not...

P.S. I'd still write in Ron Paul for president if I could...

[Kade]

Obama is Indonesian with a forged birth certificate/berth certificate.


Can you please prove this for me? I'm sorry to be a pain in the ass...

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/13/bobirthcertificate.jpg

[michigan wolverine]

I can't address La. specifically since I was not there. But chance are both sides are at fault. The biggest problem Ron Paul Supporter have is they look for difference with people instead of finding common ground. Look at the posts on the board. We have people bad mouthing McCain and Baldwin and Barr. Instead of looking for common ground that can be built upon. They emphasis the areas that they disagree with the various candidates. Even your post now has a tone of resentment and hatred in it.

You should understand that there are always going to be differences between any two individuals. But to foster anger because of the treatment you believe you received juist destoys things. The better man we set these things aside and work to improve the relationship.

[Kade]

I can't address La. specifically since I was not there. But chance are both sides are at fault. The biggest problem Ron Paul Supporter have is they look for difference with people instead of finding common ground. Look at the posts on the board. We have people bad mouthing McCain and Baldwin and Barr. Instead of looking for common ground that can be built upon. They emphasis the areas that they disagree with the various candidates. Even your post now has a tone of resentment and hatred in it.

You should understand that there are always going to be differences between any two individuals. But to foster anger because of the treatment you believe you received juist destoys things. The better man we set these things aside and work to improve the relationship.

I'm an Notre Dame alumni... you and I cannot possibly get along in this world...

But, I wish you the best against Ohio State, our mutual enemy.

Here's hoping that Toledo is this year's Appalachian State. :D

[torchbearer]

I can't address La. specifically since I was not there. But chance are both sides are at fault. The biggest problem Ron Paul Supporter have is they look for difference with people instead of finding common ground. Look at the posts on the board. We have people bad mouthing McCain and Baldwin and Barr. Instead of looking for common ground that can be built upon. They emphasis the areas that they disagree with the various candidates. Even your post now has a tone of resentment and hatred in it.

You should understand that there are always going to be differences between any two individuals. But to foster anger because of the treatment you believe you received juist destoys things. The better man we set these things aside and work to improve the relationship.

both sides? wtf are you talking about.
We were very pleasant, we followed all the rules. We worked our asses off and got cheated.
Both sides are at fault? what the fuck ever. I believe Louisiana was our first taste of dirty political tactics. It was after that point people began planning for the same BS in their states.. and it did happen in almost every state.
You need to stop reading propaganda.

[torchbearer]

both sides? wtf are you talking about.
We were very pleasant, we followed all the rules. We worked our asses off and got cheated.
Both sides are at fault? what the fuck ever. I believe Louisiana was our first taste of dirty political tactics. It was after that point people began planning for the same BS in their states.. and it did happen in almost every state.
You need to stop reading propaganda.

by the way, these people don't want to work with us, we challenge their political power. they just want us to vote on one their friends, like mike davis keeps pushing around here. he is typical shill.

We have to replace most of the people at the top of all our state partys.
i've got 7+ years of state central committee experience and we plan to take the state gop back if we can ever get a FAIR election.
We have the numbers.

[SeanEdwards]

In other words, the Republican Party is a tool.

The republican party is not a tool, it's a brand name. And this brand has been soiled, maybe irrevocably by the actions of those running the party.

Early in the Paul campaign for the nomination, I tried to convince a relative of mine to register republican to vote for Paul. His response was that he'd rather register as a child molester than republican. He probably would have registered third party, or whatever to support Paul just to satisfy my request, but the republican label was too repulsive for him to tolerate, despite the fact that politically he could agree with much of Paul's platform.

So don't dismiss out of hand the taint that lingers about the GOP. A lot of people viscerally despise what the GOP has done to this country for the past 20 years or so, and they're not going to forget, or want to join with a label that is associated with intolerant religious extremism, endless war, and vast expansion of authoritarian governance.

[torchbearer]

The republican party is not a tool, it's a brand name. And this brand has been soiled, maybe irrevocably by the actions of those running the party.

Early in the Paul campaign for the nomination, I tried to convince a relative of mine to register republican to vote for Paul. His response was that he'd rather register as a child molester than republican. He probably would have registered third party, or whatever to support Paul just to satisfy my request, but the republican label was too repulsive for him to tolerate, despite the fact that politically he could agree with much of Paul's platform.

So don't dismiss out of hand the taint that lingers about the GOP. A lot of people viscerally despise what the GOP has done to this country for the past 20 years or so, and they're not going to forget, or want to join with a label that is associated with intolerant religious extremism, endless war, and vast expansion of authoritarian governance.

it is a tool... a vehicle.
And Brands can be redone easily with a marketing campaign.
Picture the south- Solid Democrat for decades after the civil war.
How did all these democrats come to vote for republicans after time?
Well- In Louisiana, some of the more concervative democrats joined the lesser republicans and branded the republican party, the party of guns, LSU football, and religion. (these are in no particular order)
Instant success.
A previously bad brand, turned into a new one.

[speciallyblend]

The whole Ron Paul movement was from the start and will continue to be a Republican Party Reform movement.

well if mccain wins, you can kiss this movement within the gop goodbye!!!

[speciallyblend]

I am going to stay out of this one. Everyone is well aware of how I view the GOP.

open up,tell us:) i hear you!!!! it's just an opinion and your allowed to have one;)

[michigan wolverine]

The were reports of Ron Paul Supporter being jerks way before the primaries. Like people on the boat in Michigan. There were also instances in Florida and New Hampshire. People were disrepectful towards other presidential candidates and their supporters. People remember things like that. If we wanted to be respected we should have treated others with respect. Especially when the others have the power. You and I may not have liked the other candidates. But treating their supporters with disrespect turned of people. They could have been useful allies.

Yes La was the first instance of the party working against Paul supporters but the groundwork was laid a long time before Iowa.

[torchbearer]

The were reports of Ron Paul Supporter being jerks way before the primaries. Like people on the boat in Michigan. There were also instances in Florida and New Hampshire. People were disrepectful towards other presidential candidates and their supporters. People remember things like that. If we wanted to be respected we should have treated others with respect. Especially when the others have the power. You and I may not have liked the other candidates. But treating their supporters with disrespect turned of people. They could have been useful allies.

Yes La was the first instance of the party working against Paul supporters but the groundwork was laid a long time before Iowa.

So- you are saying, that is because of someone heckling Rudy on a boat far away from Louisiana, the LAGOP rallied together to keep those menacing ron paul supporters from destroying their conventions with their recklessness?
Please- take this shit somewhere else.
YOu don't have a fucking clue what you are talking about... Louisiana's caucus was bought before hand. They were making sure the results came out as they should.
How do I know that? Ask Buddy Roemer how much McCain paid his crew to get the LAGOP leadership to get their sheep in line.
You should have seen the McCain people at the convention. The campaign staff, not the delegates. These outsiders were intimidating anyone who wanted to speak, and was constantly objecting to every word coming out of our delegates mouths during the convention.
Louisiana had ZERO to do with the bullshit you are talking about and everything to do with LAGOP corruption.
Funny how people have these revisionist/apologist view on the past 20 months.
You can take your revisionist bullshit and stick it up your ass.
We didn't do a DAMN thing wrong in louisiana, and it wouldn't have matter if those members in other states had gotten on their knees and gave the GOP leadership head. They would have gotten the same treatment.