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TastyWheat
08-06-2008, 02:02 PM
Please, sign this petition to GE to start manufacturing CFL bulbs in America instead of closing plants and increasing the trade deficit.

Screw That Bulb (http://www.unionvoice.org/campaign/screwthatbulb)

Kludge
08-06-2008, 02:07 PM
I hate CFL bulbs... It's a pain when searching for Campaign for Liberty news and I have a bunch of data about lightbulbs showing :(

Uriel999
08-06-2008, 04:08 PM
CFL bulbs have mercury in them...not safe if you accidentally drop one or it otherwise ends up broken. It costs thousands of dollars to clean up that shit if it gets into your air conditioning. Also, assuming you don't break a cfl bulb and use it for its full life cycle and then throw it away in the trash, then the trash dump gets polluted with mercury. We need to legalize the old Edison bulb again. Wow, can you believe it, hell I at least understand the reasoning of why some people want drugs illegal, but freaking light bulbs!

smithtg
08-07-2008, 08:28 AM
CFL bulbs have mercury in them...not safe if you accidentally drop one or it otherwise ends up broken. It costs thousands of dollars to clean up that shit if it gets into your air conditioning. Also, assuming you don't break a cfl bulb and use it for its full life cycle and then throw it away in the trash, then the trash dump gets polluted with mercury. We need to legalize the old Edison bulb again. Wow, can you believe it, hell I at least understand the reasoning of why some people want drugs illegal, but freaking light bulbs!


This mercury stuff is BS; most of us old enough can remember making mercury in the high school chem lab. Mercury thermometers were the norm. Then came the "green movement" and they were outlawed; if some kid broke one in a school our wonderful tax dollars were spent to "clean up" a drop of mercury

Im not going to drink the stuff, but dont really care about it either - im going to die of something someday anyway

the fact is they do save electricity and GE should make them here

SnappleLlama
08-07-2008, 08:33 AM
I went to that website. There was a lightbulb with slanty eyes and a bad haircut.

Wait...what was this about?

acptulsa
08-07-2008, 08:41 AM
CFL bulbs have mercury in them...not safe if you accidentally drop one or it otherwise ends up broken.

Overregulation costing jobs again. How much do you want to bet it isn't our rate of pay that is causing the manufacture of these to be exported, but local regulations concerning the mercury...?

amy31416
08-07-2008, 08:58 AM
This mercury stuff is BS; most of us old enough can remember making mercury in the high school chem lab. Mercury thermometers were the norm. Then came the "green movement" and they were outlawed; if some kid broke one in a school our wonderful tax dollars were spent to "clean up" a drop of mercury

Im not going to drink the stuff, but dont really care about it either - im going to die of something someday anyway

the fact is they do save electricity and GE should make them here

I've cleaned up more mercury than I can tell you (with no safety gear) and I'm fine, especially when one knucklehead blew out an open-end manometer. Perfectly fine. Completely fine. No trouble here. None at all.

Seriously though, chemists and physicists used to work in labs that were loaded with mercury prior to having gloves and other protective equipment. I used to play with it when I was a kid, which may explain a few things. It's one of the coolest substances ever.

Dare I ask how you "made" mercury in the lab though? I've worked in quite a few of them and we've never once made an element.

P.S. I do not recommend giving your kid mercury to play with though. And some of the variations like dimethylmercury can kill you slowly with the tiniest amounts: http://articles.latimes.com/1997/sep/14/news/mn-32049

smithtg
08-07-2008, 10:15 AM
I've cleaned up more mercury than I can tell you (with no safety gear) and I'm fine, especially when one knucklehead blew out an open-end manometer. Perfectly fine. Completely fine. No trouble here. None at all.

Seriously though, chemists and physicists used to work in labs that were loaded with mercury prior to having gloves and other protective equipment. I used to play with it when I was a kid, which may explain a few things. It's one of the coolest substances ever.

Dare I ask how you "made" mercury in the lab though? I've worked in quite a few of them and we've never once made an element.

P.S. I do not recommend giving your kid mercury to play with though. And some of the variations like dimethylmercury can kill you slowly with the tiniest amounts: http://articles.latimes.com/1997/sep/14/news/mn-32049


okay we didnt 'make' mercury. I have had plenty of chemistry believe me. I suppose we extracted it from some compound, but off hand I do not remember what we started with. I just know we had a few drops at the bottom of the flask when we were done and then dumped it on the desk and chased it around with our fingers - im not dead yet

did the same when we broke thermometers

amy31416
08-07-2008, 10:43 AM
okay we didnt 'make' mercury. I have had plenty of chemistry believe me. I suppose we extracted it from some compound, but off hand I do not remember what we started with. I just know we had a few drops at the bottom of the flask when we were done and then dumped it on the desk and chased it around with our fingers - im not dead yet

did the same when we broke thermometers

Ahh, that makes more sense.

I had a film container with mercury in it from a broken thermometer hidden away as a kid. When you put it on a slide with a coverslip, it looks like a solid metal. I cringe to admit that I had tiny beads of mercury all over the place--and in order to pick them up, I had to take the larger blob of it, roll it over and then use a very thin sheet of metal to pick it all up and put it back in its container.

Make no mistake though, it's not safe to have extended exposure to mercury. Mad hatters got that name for a reason.

acptulsa
08-07-2008, 10:49 AM
Make no mistake though, it's not safe to have extended exposure to mercury. Mad hatters got that name for a reason.

As I recall, hatters actually boiled the stuff back then. And fish, of course, process it into essential oils. Hardly the same as experimenting with it a bit at room temperature. But hey--Lewis Carroll makes a joke and, centuries later, American politicians use it to convince you there's something out there scarier than they are. Isn't that the natural order of things?

Anti Federalist
08-07-2008, 11:02 AM
Bah, mercury nonsense.

Thermostats and "non clicking" electrical switches had, and still have, a whole hell of lot more mercury in them than CFLs.

Not to say CFLs don't make lousy light, and no comment on the idiocy of the fedgov banning light bulbs.

Some days words fail me.

amy31416
08-07-2008, 11:25 AM
As I recall, hatters actually boiled the stuff back then. And fish, of course, process it into essential oils. Hardly the same as experimenting with it a bit at room temperature. But hey--Lewis Carroll makes a joke and, centuries later, American politicians use it to convince you there's something out there scarier than they are. Isn't that the natural order of things?

It's actually the fumes of mercury that start messing with your myelin sheaths. You can absorb elemental mercury through your skin and digestive tract, but it's very, very small quantities and usually not sufficient to cause any issues. It's when you heat it up and start huffing the fumes that you run into some trouble after a while.

Lewis Carroll never actually called the character a mad hatter, and his "symptoms" are not those of mercury poisoning, but it stuck. There have been many cases of true mercury poisoning via contamination of the food supply, but that's with methyl mercury, not elemental mercury.

Uriel999
08-07-2008, 03:02 PM
Okay, well ya'll disagree with me over the mercury and thats fine, but I know for a fact ya'll should at least agree with allowing the market to work freely so that I personally can purchase normal light bulbs and at least rest easier knowing that if I break a bulb mercury isn't getting on me.

ShowMeLiberty
08-07-2008, 03:22 PM
Okay, well ya'll disagree with me over the mercury and thats fine, but I know for a fact ya'll should at least agree with allowing the market to work freely so that I personally can purchase normal light bulbs and at least rest easier knowing that if I break a bulb mercury isn't getting on me.

I definitely agree with letting the market work freely. I also agree about the mercury. The mistake a lot of people make is equating the dangers of mercury vapor (lightbulbs) to the dangers of liquid mercury (thermometers and labs). It's not the same thing.

There is actually a rather lengthy set of instructions on how to handle curly fry bulb breaks from the EPA: http://www.epa.gov/mercury/spills/index.htm#fluorescent . This is the stuff the nanny staters neglect to mention when they're outlawing Edison bulbs.

Even if they don't break, you are still supposed to take them to an appropriate recycling center when they burn out. How far will you have to drive to properly dispose of your CFLs? This web site will tell you if you enter "cfl" and your zip code in the search box: http://earth911.org/ .

Anti Federalist
08-07-2008, 04:33 PM
Amy wrote:


It's actually the fumes of mercury that start messing with your myelin sheaths.

Does elemental mercury go through the vaporization process as an elemental gas?

It's a fairly "active" element. Wouldn't it form oxides when heated to a gaseous state?

satchelmcqueen
08-07-2008, 09:29 PM
CFL bulbs have mercury in them...not safe if you accidentally drop one or it otherwise ends up broken. It costs thousands of dollars to clean up that shit if it gets into your air conditioning. Also, assuming you don't break a cfl bulb and use it for its full life cycle and then throw it away in the trash, then the trash dump gets polluted with mercury. We need to legalize the old Edison bulb again. Wow, can you believe it, hell I at least understand the reasoning of why some people want drugs illegal, but freaking light bulbs!

now way! My AC vents are where I chunk my broken bulbs. No wonder i cant see very well anymore.

amy31416
08-07-2008, 09:40 PM
Amy wrote:



Does elemental mercury go through the vaporization process as an elemental gas?

It's a fairly "active" element. Wouldn't it form oxides when heated to a gaseous state?

Honestly, I'd have to do a little homework to answer your question. Off the top of my head, it's like any other liquid and puts off vapor just like anything else--whether it's entirely elemental or forms oxides, I don't know. It will react when heated (and unheated to a lesser degree), but it's really not all that much different from other metals. If you hang out and breathe other liquid metal vapors, it'll hurt you too.

Uriel999
08-08-2008, 05:57 AM
now way! My AC vents are where I chunk my broken bulbs. No wonder i cant see very well anymore.

ROFL! That literally made me laugh out loud!

Anti Federalist
08-08-2008, 08:16 AM
Honestly, I'd have to do a little homework to answer your question. Off the top of my head, it's like any other liquid and puts off vapor just like anything else--whether it's entirely elemental or forms oxides, I don't know. It will react when heated (and unheated to a lesser degree), but it's really not all that much different from other metals. If you hang out and breathe other liquid metal vapors, it'll hurt you too.

I'm curious myself.

I know the oxides of mercury are just as bad for you, if not worse, than in it's liquid elemental form.

And of course, casting lead bullets or welding galvanized steel, as a couple of examples, gives off fumes that are certainly not good for you, but these are not as reactive as mercury, so I think anyway.

amy31416
08-08-2008, 08:55 AM
I'm curious myself.

I know the oxides of mercury are just as bad for you, if not worse, than in it's liquid elemental form.

And of course, casting lead bullets or welding galvanized steel, as a couple of examples, gives off fumes that are certainly not good for you, but these are not as reactive as mercury, so I think anyway.

According to the Merck Index (11th Ed),


When pure does not tarnish on exposure to air at ordinary temp, but when heated to near the boiling point slowly oxidizes to HgO. Forms alloys with most metals except iron and combines with sulfur at ordinary temperatures.

Sulfur is what we always used on spilled mercury that we couldn't pick up, because the compounds it forms with it are much less toxic.

As far as human toxicity Merck has this to say:


Readily absorbed via respiratory tract (elemental mercury vapor, mercury compd dusts), intact skin and G.I. tract, although occasional incidental swallowing of metallic mercury is without harm. Spilled and heated elemental mercury is particularly hazardous. Acute: sol salts have violent corrosive effects on skin and mucous membranes; severe nausea, vomiting, absominal pain, bloody diarrhea; kidney damage; death usuallly within 10 days.

Who "incidentally" swallows mercury? Someone eat the thermometer? Anyways, there's no toxicity for mercurous oxide listed in Merck. I'm sure it's out there somewhere though.

Anti Federalist
08-08-2008, 09:02 AM
According to the Merck Index (11th Ed),



Sulfur is what we always used on spilled mercury that we couldn't pick up, because the compounds it forms with it are much less toxic.

As far as human toxicity Merck has this to say:



Who "incidentally" swallows mercury? Someone eat the thermometer? Anyways, there's no toxicity for mercurous oxide listed in Merck. I'm sure it's out there somewhere though.

From the MSDS for mercuric oxide:

Material Safety Data Sheet
Mercuric oxide MSDS
Section 1: Chemical Product and Company Identification
Product Name: Mercuric oxide
Catalog Codes: SLM3718, SLM2947, SLM4327, SLM2179
CAS#: 21908-53-2
RTECS: OW8750000
TSCA: TSCA 8(b) inventory: Mercuric oxide

CI#: Not available.
Synonym:
Chemical Name: Not available.
Chemical Formula: HgO

Potential Acute Health Effects:

Extremely hazardous in case of ingestion. Very hazardous in case of inhalation.

Potential Chronic Health Effects:
Extremely hazardous in case of ingestion, of inhalation.

DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: PROVEN
The substance is toxic to blood, kidneys, lungs, the nervous system, the reproductive system, liver, mucous membranes.

So, not only are the elemental fumes bad for you, but the oxides are just as bad, if not worse.

So, the moral is, elemental mercury is relatively harmless, but for god's sake don't heat it to the point of vaporization or oxidation.

amy31416
08-08-2008, 09:09 AM
So, not only are the elemental fumes bad for you, but the oxides are just as bad, if not worse.

So, the moral is, elemental mercury is relatively harmless, but for god's sake don't heat it to the point of vaporization or oxidation.

Unless, of course, you're using a very good hood that has been shown capable of drawing mercury fumes.

It amazes me now the risks I took in undergrad. I had to use a boiling 50:50 mix of hydrochloric and sulfuric acids to dissolve zebra mussel shells and the hood I was using sucked so poorly that my nose would start to bleed quite frequently and I just considered it a part of the research. That was probably much more risky than the mercury spills I cleaned up.

JeNNiF00F00
08-08-2008, 09:13 AM
My grandma always talks about a thermometer breaking in her mouth as a child and having a mouth full of mercury. How it happened, I do not know. She swears she has health problems to this day because of it. Weird stuff like neuralgia and other things...she can't take a shower without feeling like shes getting stung by bees and so forth.

Anti Federalist
08-08-2008, 09:22 AM
Unless, of course, you're using a very good hood that has been shown capable of drawing mercury fumes.

It amazes me now the risks I took in undergrad. I had to use a boiling 50:50 mix of hydrochloric and sulfuric acids to dissolve zebra mussel shells and the hood I was using sucked so poorly that my nose would start to bleed quite frequently and I just considered it a part of the research. That was probably much more risky than the mercury spills I cleaned up.

Oh don't we all.

I can recall changing out a suction valve at the bottom of a cargo tank on an oil tanker that I sailed on that had just been carrying gasoline.

Even though the tank had been "butterworthed", the sludge at the bottom retained enough of the cargo to give off fumes so bad, that for days afterward I'd sneeze or blow my nose and taste and smell gasoline.

amy31416
08-08-2008, 09:34 AM
Oh don't we all.

I can recall changing out a suction valve at the bottom of a cargo tank on an oil tanker that I sailed on that had just been carrying gasoline.

Even though the tank had been "butterworthed", the sludge at the bottom retained enough of the cargo to give off fumes so bad, that for days afterward I'd sneeze or blow my nose and taste and smell gasoline.

But now ya know better, right?

Right? :p

Anti Federalist
08-08-2008, 12:13 PM
But now ya know better, right?

Right? :p

:rolleyes:

I'm having the very bad feeling here lately, that the damage has been done.

A lot more aches, pains and ailments than 43 should reflect.:(

A lifetime of hard work, bad habits and abuse is catching up with me, fast.

satchelmcqueen
08-08-2008, 12:55 PM
ROFL! That literally made me laugh out loud!

uhh thank you, thank you. ill be on next week in another thread. hope you can make it.



(theme music plays me out)...

amy31416
08-08-2008, 04:26 PM
:rolleyes:

I'm having the very bad feeling here lately, that the damage has been done.

A lot more aches, pains and ailments than 43 should reflect.:(

A lifetime of hard work, bad habits and abuse is catching up with me, fast.

You work a pretty intense job. Might sound crazy, but have you thought about trying something like yoga or tai chi?

Anti Federalist
08-08-2008, 05:32 PM
You work a pretty intense job. Might sound crazy, but have you thought about trying something like yoga or tai chi?

No, not crazy at all, because the thought has crossed my mind.

My younger brother has a BB in Tae Kwon Do (I think) and he started that for the same reasons. (He's in the same line of work I am)

So if I can fight through this current bout of bad knee pain and joint pain, maybe I'll take it up.

Thanks.

libertea
08-08-2008, 06:00 PM
Ahh, that makes more sense.

Make no mistake though, it's not safe to have extended exposure to mercury. Mad hatters got that name for a reason.

Damn, I've been cleaning up this broken CFL bulb for 4 years now.

amy31416
08-08-2008, 08:06 PM
Damn, I've been cleaning up this broken CFL bulb for 4 years now.

That's a pretty freakin' big bulb if it takes ya 4 years to clean it up. :eek: