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Conza88
08-06-2008, 08:13 AM
I was just wondering in light of reading this...

In short, to really pursue the goal of liberty, the libertarian must desire it attained by the most effective and speediest means available. It was in this spirit that the classical liberal Leonard E. Read, advocating immediate and total abolition of price and wage controls after World War II, declared in a speech, "If there were a button on this rostrum, the pressing of which would release all wage and price controls instanta*neously, I would put my finger on it and push!"2

The libertarian, then, should be a person who would push the button, if it existed, for the instantaneous abolition of all invasions of liberty. Of course, he knows, too, that such a magic button does not exist, but his fundamental preference colors and shapes his entire strategic perspective. For a New Liberty by Murry Rothbard (http://mises.org/rothbard/newliberty14.asp)

... if you were to come to power, would you push the button?
I know Ron Paul's position on the matter, the gradualist approach for those with social security etc.

I would probably have a blend of that.. and I'm guessing he would aswell.

i.e Fractional reserve banking -> 100% reserve banking overnight?
Abolish the IRS?
Abolish the Income tax?
Fiat currency -? Sound Money : competing currencies, gold standard etc overnight?

And would you do an order of things? i.e Get rid of the FED system before you got rid of the Income tax... might be a bit of inflation otherwise... lol. ;)

noxagol
08-06-2008, 08:23 AM
I would push it with great glee. Shock and awe is the only way to wake the sheep.

Truth Warrior
08-06-2008, 08:24 AM
No.

But I would, yank the chain, rattle the cage, rock the boat, make waves, stir the pot, etc., etc., etc. ;)

:D

mport1
08-06-2008, 08:25 AM
Man I love Rothbard. Yes I would push the button in a heartbeat.

Conza88
08-06-2008, 08:42 AM
Since I'm in Aus... and the public is largely going to be hostile... (and since we need an educated public for liberty) the office would be used to educate, inform etc..

To help stop blow back... to policies.. i.e Say getting rid of the income tax... then all the lefties go up in arms.. OOOhh big business, right wing fascist (idiocy etc.)

I would probably balance it with making Corporate Crime a jailable offence (theft) for eg.. collusion is just fineable atm.. i.e one company director colluded with another, profits in the millions - and the fine ends up being LESS than what they made.. lol

Or I would enact some policy around the same time; ie get rid of sedition laws.. or say; legalise drugs - but then also announce that there would be tax free money for charities that go to drug addiction charities....

Kind of blend it like that.. :D Any comments / observations? I can just see if you were to do it all at once; with no real explanations etc.. take people by shock; you know the media is going to go balistic... so why not make their job harder... where they can't keep you in the old molds of Left or Right.... :cool: I just wldn't want to get booted out before the benefits can start being seen.. then the next douche just comes in and reinstates all the old policies..

Truth Warrior
08-06-2008, 08:47 AM
The "lefties" have their own Manifesto and agenda, circa 1848. :p

Conza88
08-06-2008, 09:06 AM
The "lefties" have their own Manifesto and agenda, circa 1848. :p

Yeah, but here in Aus... they're mostly stupid. They think they are lefties because its all moral etc... for alot of people here thats the only thing they've ever really known - they see the world today and see all the problems, and they are told its capitalism's fault...

By presenting too sides at the same time... while people are getting to form an opinion of you (which generally lasts in politics) I'm making it harder for them to just dismiss me.. and then slip into cognitive dissonance for the entire time I would be in office... BOOO economic freedoms... BOOO!! Give them civil liberties, social freedoms... they're hopefully going to be a bit quizzical.. haha and check out the Freedom philosophy overall :D

Truth Warrior
08-06-2008, 09:19 AM
Yeah, but here in Aus... they're mostly stupid. They think they are lefties because its all moral etc... for alot of people here thats the only thing they've ever really known - they see the world today and see all the problems, and they are told its capitalism's fault...

By presenting too sides at the same time... while people are getting to form an opinion of you (which generally lasts in politics) I'm making it harder for them to just dismiss me.. and then slip into cognitive dissonance for the entire time I would be in office... BOOO economic freedoms... BOOO!! Give them civil liberties, social freedoms... they're hopefully going to be a bit quizzical.. haha and check out the Freedom philosophy overall :D
They ARE and ALWAYS have been both ignorant AND stupid, EVERYWHERE. :p

Kade
08-06-2008, 09:20 AM
I perceive most of you in the 90% certainty of pushing the Milgram's button as well.

Conza88
08-06-2008, 09:36 AM
I perceive most of you in the 90% certainty of pushing the Milgram's button as well.

Bahaha... you're a bastard.

Sorry you fail and so does your perception as per your cited percentage contradicts historical, empirical evidence. That being said I'm certain this movement is in the 90% not likely in that experiment, of doing the final fatal voltage... you know the DON'T HARM ANYONE ELSES PROPERTY... and the whole authority / state figure makes it awfully tempting to tell them to get f--ked.

Furthermore, pushing the button in this instance actually alleviates pain, not administers it. ;)

Kade
08-06-2008, 10:00 AM
Bahaha... you're a bastard.

Sorry you fail and so does your perception as per your cited percentage contradicts historical, empirical evidence. That being said I'm certain this movement is in the 90% not likely in that experiment, of doing the final fatal voltage... you know the DON'T HARM ANYONE ELSES PROPERTY... and the whole authority / state figure makes it awfully tempting to tell them to get f--ked.

Furthermore, pushing the button in this instance actually alleviates pain, not administers it. ;)

You guys are really anti-authority, let me tell you.

Is 88 your birth year or are you displaying your fondness for Hitler?

IRO-bot
08-06-2008, 10:02 AM
I'd push it, this country needs a reset button.

Conza88
08-07-2008, 12:39 AM
You guys are really anti-authority, let me tell you.

Is 88 your birth year or are you displaying your fondness for Hitler?

And the troll becomes blatantly evident.

You obviously read this... discussion (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=145309&highlight=year+born&page=13)

Or... did you just coincidentally come up with that observation; after all the times you've had the opportunity, the countless times to bring that up... had you known about it previously.

Why ask a question you already know the answer too?

Yeah - you're a bastard as previously stated. :rolleyes:

cien750hp
08-07-2008, 01:38 AM
legalize competing currencies immediately, marching orders for troops around the world immediately (starting with iraq), instruct states that they should now create their own currencies that can be exchanged for gold or silver (and i'm sure debit card options with gold and silver backing will pop up), end the irs immediately, end social security for anyone under 30 or so immediately, stagger the ending of all the departments and welfare, immediately cease all regulations and special tariffs and taxes, declare this is the last year of the income tax and after april 15th it will not exist, let the free market work its magic

heres another "button" question
if you were president, which route would you choose?
issue executive orders to get the government back to being strictly constitutional
or follow the branches of government to get it back to being constitutional (much harder to get done but more in line with the constitution)

Conza88
08-07-2008, 02:07 AM
heres another "button" question
if you were president, which route would you choose?
issue executive orders to get the government back to being strictly constitutional
or follow the branches of government to get it back to being constitutional (much harder to get done but more in line with the constitution)

Yeah, thats a bit of a toughy.

In the states, I'd go the "lick my balls bitches - we're going executive order on your asses now. You used it to increase the size of the state, well I'm going to use it to decrease it's size." As the congress is pretty much bought and paid for.. talking / convincing won't do jack imo..

It's probably best to have a good VP aswell.. lol

Kade
08-07-2008, 07:23 AM
And the troll becomes blatantly evident.

You obviously read this... discussion (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=145309&highlight=year+born&page=13)

Or... did you just coincidentally come up with that observation; after all the times you've had the opportunity, the countless times to bring that up... had you known about it previously.

Why ask a question you already know the answer too?

Yeah - you're a bastard as previously stated. :rolleyes:

Haha! That's great... no, I hadn't seen it. Although they seem to specifically point you towards white supremacy, I thought 88 was a Hitler thing...

Awesome. Thanks for the link Gonzo.

IRO-bot
08-07-2008, 07:25 AM
You know Conza, the mods can change your name if you give them a good reason. I had mine changed.

Conza88
08-07-2008, 08:19 AM
You know Conza, the mods can change your name if you give them a good reason. I had mine changed.

Very tempted... aye.

It would kind of be like the Liberals... stealing the name though wouldn't it?

Maybe I should change it to 68... then make that symbolic for FH...

Fuck Hitler..

Or maybe retards like Spade should make the connection that since I'm no collectivist, much like Ron Paul... it's kind of idiotic to say I hate a race.

Fools can make all the assumptions and false accusations they want... all they are doing is treating me like Ron Paul was. Go ahead... do your worst :cool: It's rather flattering. :D

Kade
08-07-2008, 08:22 AM
Or maybe retards like Spade should make the connection that since I'm no collectivist, much like Ron Paul... it's kind of hard to say I hate a race.

Fools can make all the assumptions and accusations they want... all they are doing is treating me like Ron Paul was. Go ahead... do your worst :cool: It's rather flattering. :D

You know Gonzo, just because you say you are not a collectivist, doesn't mean you aren't... in fact, your sheer exhaustive use of collectivist propaganda is very conforming indeed.

You insulted me first. Try being nice and notice how fast I change... you may find out that you don't entirely disagree with me as much as you want to....

Also, no need to be defensive here... I really don't believe you are a Neo-Nazi.

Aratus
08-07-2008, 08:38 AM
when i first saw this thread's header... i ACTUALLY thought it was the button
that is near the phone that dials moscow in our potus's mansion...whew...
its the oTHEr button much more significant than the staples "easy" button!!!

Conza88
08-07-2008, 08:39 AM
You know Gonzo, just because you say you are not a collectivist, doesn't mean you aren't... in fact, your sheer exhaustive use of collectivist propaganda is very conforming indeed.

You insulted me first. Try being nice and notice how fast I change... you may find out that you don't entirely disagree with me as much as you want to....

Also, no need to be defensive here... I really don't believe you are a Neo-Nazi.

You know Spade, I'd love to see what my collectivist propaganda looks like. :D hahahah... should be good for a few laughs.

You insulted the movement. Try being nice and notice how fast I change... you may find out that you're wrong on many issues and with an open mind you can eventually come to entirely agree with me as much as you want to...

Ahhh ok, it's hard to tell whether you're joking or just being an ass. Which is why I tend to be the white cat. :eek:


http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/270907174_8684c20b94.jpg

WHITE SUPREMACISTS!!?!! :eek:

:D -> ;)

Kade
08-07-2008, 08:43 AM
You know Spade, I'd love to see what my collectivist propaganda looks like. :D hahahah... should be good for a few laughs.

You insulted the movement. Try being nice and notice how fast I change... you may find out that you're wrong on many issues and with an open mind you can eventually come to entirely agree with me as much as you want to...


If preaching liberty, sound economic policy, freedom of expression, freedom of thought, and common law comprehension is insulting the movement, maybe I was wrong.

You don't think it is ironic that you associate with a movement that protects absolutist ideals (whose main figurehead doesn't), and then ask me for an example of collectivism?

What exactly do you wish to change my mind on?

Aratus
08-07-2008, 08:46 AM
Kade is a natural for our Bay State... he makes Nader and Obama people briefly think Libertarian.
our also ranning g.o.p had this mitt romney lets win it for the gipper luv-fest kissy-kissy recently...
myself i know a political lore. trust me...each tyme you slam him, folks on the north shore shall vote
for him, even though he was born outside of new england, i assume! we have a melting~pot mix!

Aratus
08-07-2008, 08:49 AM
Kade... here's famous statue! http://www.nps.gov/history/nr/travel/maritime/glo.htm i think very purple shamrock... despite my kith and kin being oh so
near the giant's causeway in antrim... you and i just might have distant relates up on the north shore... and mayhap
even a distant cousins overlap. anything is possible in perfect storm political weather...

Kade
08-07-2008, 08:53 AM
Kade... here's famous statue! http://nps.gov/history/hr/travel/maritime/glo.htm i think very purple shamrock... despite my kith and kin being oh so
near the giant's causeway in antrim... you and i just might have distant relates up on the north shore... and mayhap
even a distant cousins overlap. anything is possible in perfect storm political weather...

The link is a bit busted, you mean this:

http://www.nps.gov/history/nr/travel/maritime/buildings/Glo1.jpg

Aratus
08-07-2008, 08:54 AM
conza88... what about w.blake's tiger tiger burning bright? if there be posters here and/or trolls who thusly doth prowl like unto that ancient poet's dead poet's society prose~poem...???

Kade
08-07-2008, 08:55 AM
Kade... here's famous statue! http://nps.gov/history/hr/travel/maritime/glo.htm i think very purple shamrock... despite my kith and kin being oh so
near the giant's causeway in antrim... you and i just might have distant relates up on the north shore... and mayhap
even a distant cousins overlap. anything is possible in perfect storm political weather...

When I finish law school, my permanent residence will be off Storrow, near the newly renamed Ebersol Park. (I am very good friends with the Ebersol family, and graduated with Dick Ebersol's son Charlie...really sad what happened to Ted)

The biggest challenge to Boston politics is the unions. I have ideas for them.

Aratus
08-07-2008, 08:55 AM
yes... must correct link! the area near to that statue hath voting blocks almost so as to
be townie with a bias that would listen to thy take on the times we all are living thru...

Aratus
08-07-2008, 08:57 AM
i corrected the link! i need bifocals. i'm franklin-esquely showing my age as opposed to my gonzo

Conza88
08-07-2008, 09:00 AM
If preaching liberty, sound economic policy, freedom of expression, freedom of thought, and common law comprehension is insulting the movement, maybe I was wrong.


http://www.pro-mech.co.uk/images/straw.jpg

:D

Behold what I was referring too...


I perceive most of you in the 90% certainty of pushing the Milgram's button as well.

Plus I was originally using 'bastard' in the Australian sense.. when I called you that. Kind of a term of endearment.. like 'ohh your an ass - followed by laughs':D


You don't think it is ironic that you associate with a movement that protects absolutist ideals (whose main figurehead doesn't), and then ask me for an example of collectivism?

"just because you say you are not a collectivist, doesn't mean you aren't... in fact, your sheer exhaustive use of collectivist propaganda is very conforming indeed."

I asked you for an example of MY collectivist propaganda... I await with anticipation. Since making the proclamation, you've taken another course of tact.. probably because you realise you won't be able to quote any of my collectivist propaganda. Cus' it doesn't exist.. :confused: lol

I am open minded, I consider myself philosophical and open to persuasion. I consider the position I currently hold as being correct and will defend it. If I don't hold the position I am yet to let go of my own cognitive dissonance, or be presented with arguments that are greater than my own - till then, all else fails.


What exactly do you wish to change my mind on?

:confused:*shrugs* :D

Aratus
08-07-2008, 09:01 AM
cats... most feline... are a scaled down version of http://www.online-literature.com/blake/632/

Aratus
08-07-2008, 09:02 AM
the "other" button had harry truman and that two ton bales of hay quip being a linkage in my brain... [aratus looks above and sees hay]

Aratus
08-07-2008, 09:04 AM
Kade ain't even a eugene debs socialist... like where does this collectivist thingie come from? (aratus is ayn rand fountainhead puzzled)

Kade
08-07-2008, 09:10 AM
Plus I was originally using 'bastard' in the Australian sense.. when I called you that. Kind of a term of endearment.. like 'ohh your an ass - followed by laughs':D





I am an actual bastard... ironically. One of the only things that really gets under my skin...




I asked you for an example of MY collectivist propaganda... I await with anticipation. Since making the proclamation, you've taken another course of tact.. probably because you realise you won't be able to quote any of my collectivist propaganda. Cus' it doesn't exist.. lol

I am open minded, I consider myself philosophical and open to persuasion. I consider the position I currently hold as being correct and will defend it. If I don't hold the position I am yet to let go of my own cognitive dissonance, or be presented with arguments that are greater than my own - till then, all else fails.


Any appeal to the masses as a body in support of your ideals is collectivism Conza. This is a bastion of propoganda laced holism, and a pure example would be the destruction of the language that occurs daily here... as if everyone here had their own personal collective understanding of what they mean...

Examples:

All Liberals are socialist.
CFR, Bilderberg entwined in world government conspiracies.
Monopolies can't exist in free markets.
There are such things as the famous "unconstitutional amendments". Whatever the hell those are...
A Constitutional Republic will secure our freedoms.

and any other propagandist piece spewed in here.

Collectivists are opposed to individualism. Regarding how I am treated on this forum by the collectivist who support absolutist positions here, I have to point out that known of you are in favor of individualism.

Conza88
08-07-2008, 09:22 AM
IAny appeal to the masses as a body in support of your ideals is collectivism Conza.

Ohh thats good to know, since I only appeal to individuals. :D


This is a bastion of propoganda laced holism, and a pure example would be the destruction of the language that occurs daily here... as if everyone here had their own personal collective understanding of what they mean...

Welcome to the real world... :confused: lol... destruction of the language occurs not just here. Esoteric Agenda's....


Examples:
All Liberals are socialist.
CFR, Bilderberg entwined in world government conspiracies.
Monopolies can't exist in free markets.
There are such things as the famous "unconstitutional amendments". Whatever the hell those are...
A Constitutional Republic will secure our freedoms.

and any other propagandist piece spewed in here.

None of those are actually associated to me... still waiting ;) Well, I'll bite anyway:
- Depends what you mean by Liberal. (The era)
- I'd agree with that, there is a move for one world government to deny that is too deny reality
- They can, if the company is good enough :D better not raise their market price or they'll lose market share and let the competition in
- :confused: on that one.
- It's the best system on offer; that can easily be improved. What the founding fathers intended; they failed to implement in the voting system. Check our PREFERENTIAL VOTING; where the LEAST HATED candidate wins... ;)


Collectivists are opposed to individualism. Regarding how I am treated on this forum by the collectivist who support absolutist positions here, I have to point out that known of you are in favor of individualism.

Hahaha, say "Hi" to Alice in Wonderland for me :D

Edit: This thread is pretty much dead/jacked? LOL.. need a miracle here or she's gone with the wind.

Kade
08-07-2008, 09:26 AM
Ohh thats good to know, since I only appeal to individuals. :D



Welcome to the real world... :confused: lol... destruction of the language occurs not just here. Esoteric Agenda's....



None of those are actually associated to me... still waiting ;) Well, I'll bite anyway:
- Depends what you mean by Liberal. (The era)
- I'd agree with that, there is a move for one world government to deny that is too deny reality
- They can, if the company is good enough :D better not raise their market price or they'll lose market share and let the competition in
- :confused: on that one.
- It's the best system on offer; that can easily be improved. What the founding fathers intended; they failed to implement in the voting system. Check our PREFERENTIAL VOTING; where the LEAST HATED candidate wins... ;)



Hahaha, say "Hi" to Alice in Wonderland for me :D

Edit: This thread is pretty much dead/jacked? LOL.. need a miracle here or she's gone with the wind.

That's it?

Here, let me ask you a question.. .and you tell me the correct answer, Mr. Individualist.

Ron Paul says he has never voted for legislation that is not expressly authorized by the Constitution...

Is he wrong?

Aratus
08-07-2008, 10:41 AM
That's it?


Ron Paul says he has never voted
for legislation that is not expressly
authorized by the Constitution...

Is he wrong?

i feel he feels true to the spirit of the law
as understood by john marshall :cool:

Conza88
08-07-2008, 07:22 PM
That's it?
Why the f---k should I waste time on the likes of you? Seriously, you haven't yet presented anything I have said, failure to address previous accusations fully and proof beyond reasonable doubt means you fail miserably. Why should I continue to blow your shit out of the water, when you just keep on failing?

Furthermore, "that's it?" can be applied to practically every single post you've ever made here.


Here, let me ask you a question.. .and you tell me the correct answer, Mr. Individualist.
So that makes you Mr Collectivist? No quarrels on that one.


Ron Paul says he has never voted for legislation that is not expressly authorized by the Constitution...

Is he wrong?
Answer my questions and I'll answer yours. That's civil isn't it?
Or you can withdraw your retardedly false accusations and we can move on.:rolleyes:

Andrew-Austin
08-07-2008, 07:35 PM
Sure, but only because I'm a collectivist and the rest of you would also push the button.

Kade
08-08-2008, 06:45 AM
The only real question you asked Conza was for me to illustrate your personal collectivist behavior, and I did so in the proceeding responses, by pointing at the definition of Collectivism entails the subjugation of the individual, including individual thought, to the wills and goals of a group. Instead of listening to what I say most the time, you have joined the group in attacking me, for being an individual most of the time, and thinking for myself. Honestly, you may not see it as such, but there really is not better example of collectivism than how this group, as a collective, treats it's unique individual thinkers.

FindLiberty
08-08-2008, 07:05 AM
Back to the OP question, YES I'D PUSH THE RESET BUTTON (re-boot with only the US constitution and first ~10 amendments re-loaded back into "federal law").

Truth Warrior
08-08-2008, 07:07 AM
I am an actual bastard... ironically. One of the only things that really gets under my skin...



Any appeal to the masses as a body in support of your ideals is collectivism Conza. This is a bastion of propoganda laced holism, and a pure example would be the destruction of the language that occurs daily here... as if everyone here had their own personal collective understanding of what they mean...

Examples:

All Liberals are socialist.
CFR, Bilderberg entwined in world government conspiracies.
Monopolies can't exist in free markets.
There are such things as the famous "unconstitutional amendments". Whatever the hell those are...
A Constitutional Republic will secure our freedoms.

and any other propagandist piece spewed in here.

Collectivists are opposed to individualism. Regarding how I am treated on this forum by the collectivist who support absolutist positions here, I have to point out that known of you are in favor of individualism.
Typical Kade "clueless" bullshit. :p

Conza88
08-08-2008, 09:42 AM
The only real question you asked Conza was for me to illustrate your personal collectivist behavior, and I did so in the proceeding responses, by pointing at the definition of Collectivism entails the subjugation of the individual, including individual thought, to the wills and goals of a group. Instead of listening to what I say most the time, you have joined the group in attacking me, for being an individual most of the time, and thinking for myself. Honestly, you may not see it as such, but there really is not better example of collectivism than how this group, as a collective, treats it's unique individual thinkers.

So you're now telling my the real question I asked... Ohhh brilliant, I didn't actually know - what I wanted to know! :rolleyes: I asked for you to provide evidence to back up your acquisition. None has been forth coming. Objective: Failed.

You need to get your perspective in order... It's a fine attempt at trying to twist logic... look outside your window; take a walk down the street; read the paper; go to an Obama rally; watch the up and coming GOP convention... they're the collectivists.

Get your shit straight.


Back to the OP question, YES I'D PUSH THE RESET BUTTON (re-boot with only the US constitution and first ~10 amendments re-loaded back into "federal law").

:D The US realllllllly needs preferential voting though.

Bern
08-08-2008, 10:28 AM
... if you were to come to power, would you push the button?

let me at the jolly, candy like button (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1153869/history_eraser_button_ren_and_stimpy/)

Conza88
08-08-2008, 10:37 AM
let me at the jolly, candy like button (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1153869/history_eraser_button_ren_and_stimpy/)

Hahah! I was never really a fan of that show.. but that's hilarious :D thx