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SeanEdwards
08-02-2008, 04:24 PM
Am I the only person here becoming totally disillusioned with democracy? There's a notion that people should have a say in their government, some input to guide policies, but when I look at it, all I see are dumb socialists trying to vote themselves an ever bigger leviathan state. Every problem that hits the media is accompanied by some shrill voice crying for the government to "do something". The voices calling on the government to do less are routinely mocked and ejected from the conversation.

I talk to people all the time, and even when they recognize flaws in our system of governance, their only answer is to make the government do a better job of whatever it is. I'm coming to the conclusion that people are just too stupid and enamored of socialism to be given political power.

The very process of our democracy seems to create a bias towards short-term policies that are designed primarily to satisfy the whims of voters. So, instead of a prudent economic policy that protects individual liberty and nurtures an environment of responsible growth, we get a stimulus check, and the braindead masses love it because it means a free ipod or whatever, courtesy of Uncle Sam.

Basically, I'm coming to the conclusion that most Americans do not want to be free. They want to be coddled and re-assured. They want there to be some higher power that can reach down from the heavenly heights of Washington to fix their particular problems. Did a levee break? Go cry to Washington. Did fire burn up your retirment home? Washington can make it all better. Suffer from depression? Washington will pay for a happy pill for you. These people don't want to be free, they want to be slaves in a gilded cage.

And slaves don't deserve a right to vote.

Omphfullas Zamboni
08-02-2008, 04:28 PM
Gilded cage! I want one.

AmericaFyeah92
08-02-2008, 04:30 PM
What's the alternative, then?

I hate when people criticize democratic processes as "Mob Rule" but offer no better Political solution for society.

In the words of Churchill: "democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others."

I agree with you that our voters have been ruining our republic, but that's their fault, not the institution's.

Uriel999
08-02-2008, 04:33 PM
What's the alternative, then?

I hate when people criticize democratic processes as "Mob Rule" but offer no better Political solution for society.

In the words of Churchill: "democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others."

I agree with you that our voters have been ruining our republic, but that's their fault, not the institution's.

We should be a Republic again...

Omphfullas Zamboni
08-02-2008, 04:34 PM
The alternative is, I believe, a limited constitutionalist government.

AmericaFyeah92
08-02-2008, 04:34 PM
We should be a Republic again...

which is a branch of democracy

Omphfullas Zamboni
08-02-2008, 04:40 PM
I don't think the original post was knocking democracy in general, just the bloated, federally-based kind that we have today.

PatriotOne
08-02-2008, 04:40 PM
What's the alternative, then?

I hate when people criticize democratic processes as "Mob Rule" but offer no better Political solution for society.

In the words of Churchill: "democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others."

I agree with you that our voters have been ruining our republic, but that's their fault, not the institution's.

No government and free trade is a better option. When did all this Government horseshit start anyways? I don't need a Government to take my money and spend it on wars with people that have done nothing to me. Someone wants to pick a fight with me, I'll take care of it myself.

Grimnir Wotansvolk
08-02-2008, 04:42 PM
I still have a lot of mixed feelings about this.

Imagine for a moment that the National Initiative were implemented tomorrow morning. You can be sure that we'd be immediately on our way out of Iraq, and the Patriot Act would be torn to shreds.

Then again, when it comes to more complicated matters such as currency, the American people simply need to be told to shut up and go play in the sandbox while the adults figure things out.

Of course, this is why limited and decentralized government is so important, no matter how far left or right you hang. As government's get smaller, direct-democracy becomes more viable. I'd just assume abolish the central government all together and allow people to have democratic control over their states and local municipalities.

slothman
08-02-2008, 04:46 PM
In the words of Churchill: "democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others."

Didn't he say ..."that have been tried"


I also say that just because socialism is bad, or good depending who you ask, doesn't mean democracy fails.
It has success when people vot ate all;
Not just if it is a good or bad decision.

SeanEdwards
08-02-2008, 04:50 PM
As I understand it the Federal Constitution was strictly meant to bind down the federal government in chains, so that we wouldn't have these problems of demagogues achieving political power on the basis of promising the moon and free lunches and rainbows for everyone. The Constitution was supposed to deny them the power to put a ribbon on the moon and offer it to voters.

Now, most voters seem to regard those Constitutional chains as an archaic barrier that if it does anything, is standing between them and their luscious free lunch. At best, it should be ignored. Hard currency means the government can't print hundreds of millions of stimulus checks and bill unborn generations? Fuck that! I want my free IPOD!

Such a deal. 40% of your productive energy given over to the overlords of D.C. so that they can perform ever more grandiose pet projects, but hey, you get a free IPOD! Wooohooo!

SeanEdwards
08-02-2008, 04:54 PM
I think it's also good to point out that the earliest historically recorded incarnation of democracy, ancient Athens, quickly transformed itself into an oppressive empire and then imploded in miserable failure. And at least some of that implosion can be attributed to the utterly ridiculous expansive overreach of the Athenian leaders, frittering away the lives and wealth of their citizens on ever more optimisitic and grandiose visions of world dominance.

Alaxsxaq
08-02-2008, 05:50 PM
Everyone wants, in some way, to be a kid whose parents take care of all the tough stuff. Life is hard - we all run from it some way or another. The world is complex. Think about it. What does an individual do when the price of gas doubles in a year and their SUV has to be traded in at a loss, the value of their house in the suburbs drops 25% and the rate on the floating rate mortgage they took out to buy a home theatre system doubles and their employer wants another $100/month for their family health insurance pland and their retirement is starting to look like mornings at McDonalds and nights at Walmart?

What happened to the American Dream?!?

Help!!!!!

Too bad people don't realize their Government (Democrat and Republican alike) squandered the American Dream to satisfy the desires of the folks who run the show. Their Government IS the problem, not the solution. But, realizing that is like realizing Dad and Mom are irresponsible drunks who squandered your College fund in Vegas. Tough Love.

AmericaFyeah92
08-02-2008, 11:03 PM
you guys seem to be hostile towards the voters, not democracy itself.

There's a big difference

AutoDas
08-03-2008, 03:08 AM
I think democracy is great when it's not the government.

Truth Warrior
08-03-2008, 03:13 AM
Democracy Is Not the Solution (http://www.lewrockwell.com/hoppe/hoppe12.html)
It is the problem.

noxagol
08-03-2008, 07:06 AM
"Democracy lasts as long as people can vote themselves money out of the treasury"

Ozwest
08-03-2008, 07:26 AM
SeanEdward,

Why be sucked in?

Stop choosing tribes.

Ozwest
08-03-2008, 07:29 AM
Local government, community based, is Ron Pauls answer, and probably yours...

Truth Warrior
08-03-2008, 07:40 AM
Local government, community based, is Ron Pauls answer, and probably yours... Ahhh, micro-barbarism. :p

Ozwest
08-03-2008, 07:43 AM
Ahhh, micro-barbarism. :p

I am a Barbarian!

Nothing micro about it. :D

Truth Warrior
08-03-2008, 07:45 AM
I am a Barbarian!

Nothing micro about it. :D Yeah, yeah we know viking Neander. :rolleyes:

Ozwest
08-03-2008, 07:49 AM
Yeah, yeah we know viking Neander. :rolleyes:

You are cruel. :D

And...

So unaccustomed to our Celtic ways.

Carole
08-03-2008, 08:33 AM
The word "democracy" is offensive to my ears. We are a republic, not a democracy. Granted we are now a Marxist-fascist republic. Take your choice.

Corporatocracy and military/medical complex, too. :D

Please do NOT refer to America as a democracy. It is mob rule and is what brought Greece down. :)

We no longer truly have the vote since it is robbed from us in every local election, primary, and national election. Only Diebold has the "right" to decide.

Ozwest
08-03-2008, 08:40 AM
The word "democracy" is offensive to my ears. We are a republic, not a democracy. Granted we are now a Marxist-fascist republice. Tak your choice.

Corporatocrcy and military/medical complex, too. :D

Please do NOT refer to America as a democracy. It is mob rule and is what brought Greece down. :)

We no longer truly have the vote since it is robbed from us in every local election, primary, and national election. Only Diebold has the "right" to decide.

I'm sorry, but you are a corporate-fascist state, modeled on Mussolini.

Have a read.

Carole
08-03-2008, 08:41 AM
Eggs-actly!!

Carole
08-03-2008, 08:44 AM
Did I not just say that? :)

Ozwest
08-03-2008, 08:46 AM
Eggs-actly!!


You are obviously a free range chicken. :D

Truth Warrior
08-03-2008, 10:10 AM
You are cruel. :D

And...

So unaccustomed to our Celtic ways.
The truth often is.

My heritage is Celtic also, viking Neander. We're probably cousins, with me on the Sapiens side of the family. ;) :D

Ozwest
08-03-2008, 10:26 AM
The truth often is.

My heritage is Celtic also, viking Neander. We're probably cousins, with me on the Sapiens side of the family. ;) :D

When global warming is complete, Iceland will be the next Barbados.

We rule! :D

Truth Warrior
08-03-2008, 10:38 AM
When global warming is complete, Iceland will be the next Barbados.

We rule! :D The NEXT Ice Age cometh! ;)

Ozwest
08-03-2008, 10:42 AM
The NEXT Ice Age cometh! ;)

I love Hysteria.

Bring it on!

Truth Warrior
08-03-2008, 11:37 AM
I love Hysteria.

Bring it on!

http://geography.about.com/od/globalproblemsandissues/a/nexticeage.htm

Ozwest
08-03-2008, 11:55 AM
http://geography.about.com/od/globalproblemsandissues/a/nexticeage.htm


Nice info...

For amateurs.

Truth Warrior
08-03-2008, 12:00 PM
Nice info...

For amateurs.

http://www.iceagenow.com/index.htm

Ozwest
08-03-2008, 12:03 PM
I'm investing in wool!

And ice scrapers...

Ozwest
08-03-2008, 12:05 PM
I would like to clean up the planet.

Without governments and corporations profiteering.

Truth Warrior
08-03-2008, 12:07 PM
I would like to clean up the planet.

Without governments and corporations profiteering. Grab a shovel. :D

noxagol
08-03-2008, 02:14 PM
Grab a shovel. :D

Grab a gun first, there is a different kind of muck to clean up before the actual muck.

Ozwest
08-03-2008, 02:19 PM
Grab a gun first, there is a different kind of muck to clean up before the actual muck.

Are you trained, and proficient in the use of fire-arms?

I am.

I worry about those who aren't.