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BeFranklin
08-01-2008, 04:25 PM
Be Note:
Odd that all the people being investigated for the anthrax scare were government workers, and it was one of the the leading things used to push through Homeland Security and the war on liberty. If everyone knew that the people behind the anthrax scare were government scientists, would anyone have supported the Homeland Security initiative?

The word apparent in the title indicates that even mainstream reporters have doubts.

Los Angeles Times
Apparent suicide in anthrax case

Bruce E. Ivins, a scientist who helped the FBI investigate the 2001 mail attacks, was about to face charges.
By David Willman, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
August 1, 2008
A top government scientist who helped the FBI analyze samples from the 2001 anthrax attacks has died in Maryland from an apparent suicide, just as the Justice Department was about to file criminal charges against him for the attacks, the Los Angeles Times has learned.

Bruce E. Ivins, 62, who for the last 18 years worked at the government's elite biodefense research laboratories at Ft. Detrick, Md., had been informed of his impending prosecution, said people familiar with Ivins, his suspicious death and the FBI investigation.

Ivins, whose name had not been disclosed publicly as a suspect in the case, played a central role in research to improve anthrax vaccines by preparing anthrax formulations used in experiments on animals.

Regarded as a skilled microbiologist, Ivins also helped the FBI analyze the powdery material recovered from one of the anthrax-tainted envelopes sent to a U.S. senator's office in Washington.

Ivins died Tuesday at Frederick Memorial Hospital after ingesting a massive dose of prescription Tylenol mixed with codeine, said a friend and colleague, who declined to be identified out of concern that he would be harassed by the FBI.

The death -- without any mention of suicide -- was announced to Ivins' colleagues at the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases, or USAMRIID, through a staffwide e-mail.

"People here are pretty shook up about it," said Caree Vander Linden, a spokeswoman for USAMRIID, who said she was not at liberty to discuss details surrounding the death.

The anthrax mailings killed five people, crippled national mail service, shut down a Senate office building and spread fear of further terrorism after the Sept. 11 attacks.

The extraordinary turn of events followed the government's payment in June of a settlement valued at $5.82 million to a former government scientist, Steven J. Hatfill, who was long targeted as the FBI's chief suspect despite a lack of any evidence that he had ever possessed anthrax.

The payout to Hatfill, a highly unusual development that all but exonerated him in the mailings, was an essential step to clear the way for prosecuting Ivins, according to lawyers familiar with the matter.

Federal investigators moved away from Hatfill -- for years the only publicly identified "person of interest" -- and ultimately concluded that Ivins was the culprit after FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III changed leadership of the investigation in late 2006.

The FBI's new top investigators -- Vincent B. Lisi and Edward W. Montooth -- instructed agents to reexamine leads or potential suspects that may have received insufficient attention. Moreover, significant progress was made in analyzing genetic properties of the anthrax powder recovered from letters addressed to two senators.

The renewed efforts led the FBI back to USAMRIID, where agents first questioned scientists in December 2001, a few weeks after the fatal mailings.

By spring of this year, FBI agents were still contacting Ivins' present and former colleagues. At USAMRIID and elsewhere, scientists acquainted with Ivins were asked to sign confidentiality agreements in order to prevent leaks of new investigative details.

Ivins, employed as a civilian at Ft. Detrick, earlier had attracted the attention of Army officials because of anthrax contaminations that Ivins failed to report for five months. In sworn oral and written statements to an Army investigator, Ivins said that he had erred by keeping the episodes secret -- from December 2001 to late April 2002. He said he had swabbed and bleached more than 20 areas that he suspected were contaminated by a sloppy lab technician.

"In retrospect, although my concern for biosafety was honest and my desire to refrain from crying 'Wolf!' . . . was sincere, I should have notified my supervisor ahead of time of my worries about a possible breach in biocontainment," Ivins told the Army. "I thought that quietly and diligently cleaning the dirty desk area would both eliminate any possible [anthrax] contamination as well as prevent unintended anxiety at the institute."

The Army chose not to discipline Ivins regarding his failure to report the contamination. Officials said that penalizing Ivins might discourage other employees from voluntarily reporting accidental spills of "hot" agents.

But Ivins' recollections should have raised serious questions about his veracity and his intentions, according to some of those familiar with the investigation. For instance, although Ivins said that he swabbed areas near and within his personal office, and bleached surfaces to kill any spores, and that some of the swabs tested positive, he was vague about what should have been an essential next step:

Reswabbing to check whether any spores remained.

"I honestly do not recall if follow-up swabs were taken of the area," Ivins said. "I may have done so, but I do not now remember reswabbing."

"That's bull----," said one former senior USAMRIID official. "If there's contamination, you always reswab. And you would remember doing it."

The former official told The Times that Ivins might have hedged regarding reswabbing out of fear that investigators would find more of the spores inside or near his office.

Ivins' statements were contained within a May 2002 Army report on the contamination at USAMRIID and was obtained by The Times under the Freedom of Information Act.

Soon after the government's settlement with Hatfill was announced June 27, Ivins began showing signs of serious strain.

One of his longtime colleagues told The Times that Ivins, who was being treated for depression, indicated to a therapist that he was considering suicide.

Soon thereafter, family members and local police officers escorted Ivins from USAMRIID, where his access to sensitive areas was curtailed, the colleague said.

Ivins was committed to a facility in Frederick for treatment of his depression. On July 24, he was released from the facility, operated by Sheppard Pratt Health System. A telephone call that same day by The Times verified that Ivins' government voice mail was still functioning at the bacteriology division of USAMRIID.

The scientist faced forced retirement, planned for September, said his longtime colleague, who described Ivins as emotionally fractured by the federal scrutiny.

"He didn't have any more money to spend on legal fees. He was much more emotionally labile, in terms of sensitivity to things, than most scientists. . . . He was very thin-skinned."

FBI spokeswoman Debra J. Weierman said Thursday that the bureau would not comment on the death of Ivins.

Last week, FBI Director Mueller told CNN that "in some sense, there have been breakthroughs" in the case.

"I'll tell you we made great progress in the investigation," Mueller added.

"And it's in no way dormant."

Ivins, the son of a Princeton-educated pharmacist, was born and raised in Lebanon, Ohio, and received undergraduate and graduate degrees, including a doctorate in microbiology, from the University of Cincinnati.

The eldest of his two brothers, Thomas Ivins, said he was not surprised by the events that have unfolded.

"He buckled under the pressure from the federal government," Thomas Ivins said, adding that FBI agents came to Ohio last year to question him about his brother.

"I was questioned by the feds, and I sung like a canary" about Bruce Ivins' personality and tendencies, Thomas Ivins said.

"He had in his mind that he was omnipotent."

Ivins' widow declined to be interviewed when reached Thursday at her home in Frederick. The couple raised twins, now 24.

The family's home is 198 miles -- about a 3 1/2 -hour drive -- from a mailbox in Princeton, N.J., where anthrax spores were found by investigators.

All of the recovered anthrax letters were postmarked in that vicinity.

david.willman@latimes.com

Willman reported from Los Angeles and Washington. Times researcher Janet Lundblad contributed to this report.

BeFranklin
08-01-2008, 04:44 PM
Lots of stories from all over the political spectrum on this new story.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/01/anthrax/

"The 2001 anthrax attacks remain one of the great mysteries of the post-9/11 era. After 9/11 itself, the anthrax attacks were probably the most consequential event of the Bush presidency. One could make a persuasive case that they were actually more consequential. The 9/11 attacks were obviously traumatic for the country, but in the absence of the anthrax attacks, 9/11 could easily have been perceived as a single, isolated event. It was really the anthrax letters -- with the first one sent on September 18, just one week after 9/11 -- that severely ratcheted up the fear levels and created the climate that would dominate in this country for the next several years after. It was anthrax -- sent directly into the heart of the country's elite political and media institutions, to then-Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle (D-SD), Sen. Pat Leahy (D-Vt), NBC News anchor Tom Brokaw, and other leading media outlets -- that created the impression that social order itself was genuinely threatened by Islamic radicalism."

Carole
08-01-2008, 04:46 PM
Sorry, but this misleading. He was not proved guilty in a court of law.

Please recall the other guy who was a long time suspect and who sued and got five million dollars from the government-Us, that is.

It is just as possible that this man was also innocent.

tangent4ronpaul
08-01-2008, 04:48 PM
It's not completely clear he actually did it. On TV today they interviewed neighbors who said he's been under surveillance for the past year and he was under a lot of stress... several said they knew him well and that he was innocent. It also looks like they have absolutely no evidence.

He's a statement by his lawyer:

A statement released by Ivins's lawyers confirmed that he had been under investigation. It also cited the pressure of the investigation on the "world-renowned and highly decorated scientist who served his country for 33 years" for his death.

"We are saddened by his death, and disappointed that we will not have the opportunity to defend his good name and reputation in a court of law. We assert his innocence in these killings, and would have established that at trial," lawyer Paul Kemp said in a statement.

"The relentless pressure of accusation and innuendo takes its toll in different ways on different people, as has already been seen in this investigation. In Dr. Ivins's case, it led to his untimely death."

Kemp asked the media to respect the privacy of Ivins's grieving family. He was married and had raised a son and daughter.

It remained an open question whether Ivins's death would ultimately close the 2001 bio-terror case.

"The FBI must not let the death of Bruce Ivins deter it from completing a full and thorough investigation of the attacks," said Alan Pearson director of the Biological and Chemical Weapons Control Program at the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation, a non-partisan, non-profit research group.

"The chance to prove Ivins's guilt before a court of law has been lost, but the need for a thorough investigation and a full accounting to the American people remains."

Carole
08-01-2008, 04:49 PM
Exactly!!.

Carole
08-01-2008, 04:51 PM
They need to unseal the rocords.

CountryboyRonPaul
08-01-2008, 04:53 PM
Wow, something's very fishy about all of this.

BeFranklin
08-01-2008, 04:55 PM
It's not completely clear he actually did it.

It is however completely clear that he is dead.

Its obvious that the death needs to be looked at a lot more closely, as well as the Anthrax scare itself, which was pretty clear to me at the time it happened as being a scare in the first place - something that motivates people like the sky is falling.

BeFranklin
08-01-2008, 05:40 PM
Least we forgot:

http://bp2.blogger.com/_MnYI3_FRbbQ/SJLfMP7mkrI/AAAAAAAAA94/irML20mNYDA/s400/anthrax.jpg

So the DOJ has been investigating US government scientists for the last couple of years as the perpetrators? Seems it would be at a lot higher level than that if the DOJ were correct. (Copy of note taking from http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/01/anthrax/).

tangent4ronpaul
08-01-2008, 05:59 PM
Least we forgot:

http://bp2.blogger.com/_MnYI3_FRbbQ/SJLfMP7mkrI/AAAAAAAAA94/irML20mNYDA/s400/anthrax.jpg

So the DOJ has been investigating US government scientists for the last couple of years as the perpetrators? Seems it would be at a lot higher level than that if the DOJ were correct. (Copy of note taking from http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/08/01/anthrax/).

You would kind of think a Microbiologist would know how to spell Penicillin and that it's not used to treat anthrax exposure or particularly useful prophylacticly.

-n

UtahApocalypse
08-01-2008, 06:03 PM
What I heard on the news was the FBI connected him to the specific strain of Anthrax being from his work. So that very well*may* be true. Still does not show that he was responsible for the release and letters. What it does show is that it WAS someone with the ability to get inside a top security facility.

PatriotOne
08-01-2008, 06:30 PM
Wow, something's very fishy about all of this.

It gets even fishier. Bush and the White House staff went on a Cipro regimine on 9/11. Cipro is the Anthrax antibiotic.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/1967.shtml

BeFranklin
08-01-2008, 06:40 PM
What I heard on the news was the FBI connected him to the specific strain of Anthrax being from his work. So that very well*may* be true. Still does not show that he was responsible for the release and letters. What it does show is that it WAS someone with the ability to get inside a top security facility.

Hey Utah, I find that interesting. I've been sitting here thinking about all the stories in the past that are now known to be untrue that involved the government (which seem to me don't just make up facts, but point the finger and blame somewhere else), and this early report from that time struck me:

"Much more important than the general attempt to link the anthrax to Islamic terrorists, there was a specific intent -- indispensably aided by ABC News -- to link the anthrax attacks to Iraq and Saddam Hussein. In my view, and I've written about this several times and in great detail to no avail, the role played by ABC News in this episode is the single greatest, unresolved media scandal of this decade. News of Ivins' suicide, which means (presumably) that the anthrax attacks originated from Ft. Detrick, adds critical new facts and heightens how scandalous ABC News' conduct continues to be in this matter.

During the last week of October, 2001, ABC News, led by Brian Ross, continuously trumpeted the claim as their top news story that government tests conducted on the anthrax -- tests conducted at Ft. Detrick -- revealed that the anthrax sent to Daschele contained the chemical additive known as bentonite. ABC News, including Peter Jennings, repeatedly claimed that the presence of bentonite in the anthrax was compelling evidence that Iraq was responsible for the attacks, since -- as ABC variously claimed -- bentonite "is a trademark of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein's biological weapons program" and "only one country, Iraq, has used bentonite to produce biological weapons."

It is now known that it is completely false that bentonite was in the anthrax. But saying it is there has more effect than just to point to Iraq. It also points away from the fact that they must have known it was from a government lab at that time.

Of course, the guy that just died was responsible for analyzing it.. so right back to the government labs again.

rich34
08-01-2008, 06:45 PM
You would kind of think a Microbiologist would know how to spell Penicillin and that it's not used to treat anthrax exposure or particularly useful prophylacticly.

-n

Regardless of who it came from, our own government has already admitted that the anthrax came from a U.S lab. Put that together with the apparent "suicide" and it's no wonder people don't believe anything the government says.

Joseph Hart
08-01-2008, 07:30 PM
Wow, something's very fishy about all of this.

99% of the sheep that watch the news don't understand that all suspects are open, including those investigating the crime scenes. NO MORE SECRECY!

HollyforRP
08-01-2008, 09:12 PM
You would kind of think a Microbiologist would know how to spell Penicillin and that it's not used to treat anthrax exposure or particularly useful prophylacticly.

-n


If he's trying to mask himself and make himself seem like he's from the middle east and he's really smart he would purposely change his writing style to cover it up.

Sandra
08-01-2008, 09:28 PM
LSU professor Stephen Hatfield was awarded millions about a month ago from a lawsuit settlement against the CIA for the same thing. Doesn't it seem weird that some guy kills himself and all of a sudden he's fingered as not just a person of interest, but they know for certain he did it and are going to persue the death penalty against this guy? He died Tuesday, and they break the story that investigators are positive about this guy today. This is a butt cover story.

Aratus
08-03-2008, 09:07 AM
a south texas field in 1981 is the strain's source?

Sarge
08-03-2008, 09:46 AM
Another person questioning the mess,

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080803/D92ASN480.html

HonestyInMedicine
08-03-2008, 10:30 AM
Not only that but Donald Rumsfeld made BIG dollars during the Avian Flu which was a manufactured scare

http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/31/news/newsmakers/fortune_rumsfeld/

Carole
08-03-2008, 01:56 PM
First they were set to accuse the Eqyptian Dr. Asaad (He fit their plans nicely.) :)

Next they tried to hide the next suspect, Zack, an Israeli. (That would never work).

Next they tried to pin it on Dr. Hatfill. (He sued and won more than $5 MIllion). :)

Now they want to blame it on this now dead Scientist. (Who can believe any of this?)

BeFranklin
08-03-2008, 04:40 PM
..

tangent4ronpaul
08-03-2008, 05:03 PM
I don't think your seeing the big picture here...
Samples are sent to researchers at other labs - UK, IL, probably others - labs do that.
Some was used in tests.
Some was given to the CIA.
They made a HELL OF A LOT OF IT!

-n

Nixon made a similar decision ending the U.S. toxins program in February 1970 (see Documents 16, 19 and 20). Pursuant to these decisions, the Department of Defense developed plans to destroy all the existing stocks of U.S. biological and toxin weapons, which at the time included over 200 pounds of anthrax (see Document 22). A subsequent report, the first in a series of annual reports on the U.S. chemical weapon and biological research programs, detailed the steps taken to implement Nixon's decisions (see Documents 24a and 24b).

As the discussions leading up to Nixon's decision and the initial annual report reveal, one important issue was the extent of continued defensive research that would still be required to maintain U.S. defenses against such weapons, and to what degree such research should remain classified. Within Kissinger's staff, concern was expressed early on about the need to obtain detailed information on the classified programs (see Document 23). As subsequent revelations made clear, continued classified biological warfare programs did continue, and the ordered destruction of biological and toxin agents was not as thorough as first believed. The book by the New York Times journalists details the subsequent history of U.S. classified research on biological warfare agents, one critical piece of which was provided by the Church Committee investigations into the activities of the CIA in 1975. As detailed in the committee hearings (see Document 25) and discussed in Germs, these hearings revealed that the CIA had long been involved in stockpiling biological agents for use in assassination attempts on foreign leaders, most notably Cuba's Fidel Castro, and had worked closely with Ft. Detrick in this program between 1952 and 1970. Equally troubling was the evidence that the CIA had maintained a small stockpile of biological agents and toxins in violation of Nixon's ban that were capable of sickening or killing millions of people. Among this stockpile was 100 grams of anthrax, as well as smallpox, Venezuelan equine encephalomyelitis virus, salmonella, and clostridium botulinum, or botulism germs.(7)

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB58/

Full text of refs are online...

tangent4ronpaul
08-03-2008, 05:14 PM
ps: 200 pounds = 90,718.5 grams.

All the attacks combined only used a few grams.

The Pentagon recently "misplaced" several - what was it - hundred billion or several trillion dollars - and that was a short term accounting error. Here we are talking about accounting over 50 years....

-n

BeFranklin
08-03-2008, 05:24 PM
I'm still reading comments from another forum with almost 600 comments on this, a lot of it very interesting. Thought this one was one of them:

UPDATE: In comments, Jestaplero, a New York state prosecutor, argues that it's highly likely that Brian Ross' "bentonite" sources are material witnesses who committed obstruction of justice (since the false Iraq story came from the same lab where the attacks originated and thus was designed to distract investigators away from the true culprits), and Ross could easily be compelled to disclose those sources for that reason alone (just as Judy Miller was compelled to disclose her sources in the Plame case).

tangent4ronpaul
08-03-2008, 06:00 PM
Note the lack of any evidence related to anthrax here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25961053?GT1=43001

seems to all be based on statements by 2 people to character assassinate a dead guy.

-n

tangent4ronpaul
08-03-2008, 06:14 PM
Finally - something close to "evidence"!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25991925/

-n