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raystone
07-31-2008, 09:40 AM
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iybyrJpNITSn-U8QIWUzrfBXiZUQD928MAI00

Ron Paul followers pose danger for McCain in West
By KATHLEEN HENNESSEY – 8 hours ago

LAS VEGAS (AP) — Dueling delegations pitting Ron Paul's Nevada supporters against those of John McCain vow to take their fight to the Republican National Convention.

That's just one sign that the outsider, Internet-fueled movement led by the feisty Republican congressman from Texas remains afloat in the wake of McCain's victory in the GOP primaries.

In the libertarian-leaning West, where Paul's message of distrust of the federal government and ardent individualism played particularly well, there is talk of Republicans straying from McCain. Libertarian candidate Bob Barr has emerged as a favorite alternative for Paul activists, followed by Constitutional Party candidate Chuck Baldwin.

Even if the numbers of such dissenters are small, in tight contests in key Western states they could spoil McCain's chances, experts say.

"In Nevada, there's absolutely enough to have an effect on the election," said Chuck Muth, a leading conservative activist in a state in which early polls show McCain and Democratic candidate Barack Obama in a statistical tie.

"I think that you will see not just Libertarians who always vote for the Libertarian candidate but conservative Republicans saying we've had it, we've had enough and they're going to go ahead and vote Libertarian," Muth said.

Paul — or "Dr. Paul," as his followers reverently refer to the obstetrician-turned-politician — ran as the Libertarian Party nominee for president in 1988. But this year he carved out a following as an antiestablishment Republican. His campaign won more than 1 million votes and became a catchall for anti-war, anti-government voters and disaffected Republicans.

The eclectic coalition racked up significant numbers. Paul placed second — ahead of McCain — in Republican caucuses in Nevada and Montana. He posted strong showings in nominating contests in Colorado, Washington and Oregon. In early June, he pulled away 14 percent of the vote from the already certain nominee in the New Mexico primary.

This is the West that McCain must win.

The interior West generally has been friendly territory for Republicans seeking the White House. Nevada, Montana and Colorado voted for George W. Bush in 2000 and 2004.

But history also warns of the impact of feisty Texans who preach small government.

"There's little doubt Bill Clinton would not have won Montana if it weren't for Ross Perot," said Bob Brown, a senior fellow at the Center for the Rocky Mountain West at the University of Montana. "And I think it's clear those votes were Republican."

The same could be said of Nevada, New Mexico and Colorado, states where the two-time independent candidate for president is often given credit for Clinton's breaking a two-decade-long Republican presidential winning streak in 1992.

The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4.

"At the end of the day, Republicans are going to vote for John McCain. He's a Western candidate who understands water issues, land issues. He's a fiscal conservative," said Rick Gorka, a campaign spokesman. "His message is appealing to a broad spectrum of voters."

There's little sign of that unification yet. In Nevada, state GOP officials abruptly shut down the state convention as a group of well-organized newcomers were poised to win delegates for Paul.

The group led by Paul supporters then held its own rogue convention and elected its own delegates. For its part, the state party couldn't get enough delegates to attend a second convention and appointed delegates by committee. A judge ruled against the Paul supporters when they filed suit. They now plan to file a challenge with the Republican National Committee.

Both groups are heading to the national convention in St. Paul, Minn.

"We're trying to say, 'Hey, you guys got to play by the rules, and if you don't, you'll face the consequences,'" said Wayne Terhune, a 57-year-old dentist in Sparks, Nev., and a leading Paul activist in the state. "They just took the football and went home."

Even without Nevada, Paul will send at least a handful of delegates to the national convention. Outside the convention hall, his supporters have reserved a 15,000-seat basketball arena for a "mini-convention."

Paul hasn't endorsed, but it is clear whom he is not supporting.

"I do encourage all the alternatives, obviously, because I can't support either of the two candidates from the Republican or Democratic parties," Paul said this month in an interview on Revolution Radio, an Internet-based station run by his supporters. "I think that might send a message."

In interviews with a dozen Paul voters from around the West, anti-administration sentiment rang loudest. Most were newly active in politics but had been regular Republican voters. They said their activism began with opposition to the Bush administration's foreign policy.

As newcomers, they expressed little party allegiance and little concern that their third-party votes could benefit Obama, a candidate even further from their views than McCain.

"The notion is, let's just break the GOP because the people who are running and holding office in it aren't respecting what the constituents want," said Jay Weeldreyer, a Paul field director in Renton, Wash. "So, if we can just let them suffer a massive loss, then maybe that will get through to them."

ronpaulhawaii
07-31-2008, 09:44 AM
"I think that you will see not just Libertarians who always vote for the Libertarian candidate but conservative Republicans saying we've had it, we've had enough and they're going to go ahead and vote Libertarian," Muth said.

This guy hits the nail on the head. I am one of those repubs who have had enough

acptulsa
07-31-2008, 09:44 AM
The same could be said of Nevada, New Mexico and Colorado, states where the two-time independent candidate for president is often given credit for Clinton's breaking a two-decade-long Republican presidential winning streak in 1992.

Huh? :confused::confused:

Jimmy Carter we hardly knew ye!

UtahApocalypse
07-31-2008, 09:45 AM
"The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4."

LOL they really are in a alternate reality aren't they.

JJ2K1
07-31-2008, 09:50 AM
"At the end of the day, Republicans are going to vote for John McCain. He's a Western candidate who understands water issues, land issues. He's a fiscal conservative," said Rick Gorka, a campaign spokesman. "His message is appealing to a broad spectrum of voters."

I LOL'd

kaleidoscope eyes
07-31-2008, 09:54 AM
"The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4."

LOL they really are in a alternate reality aren't they.

I was thinking the same thing. lol

Danke
07-31-2008, 09:56 AM
That's just one sign that the outsider, Internet-fueled movement ...



Or the opposite: "just one sign that an insider, MSM-fueled non-movement..." (i.e. McCain).

Sarge
07-31-2008, 10:13 AM
Hit the gong and saying they are wrong. Not a chance I will vote for McCain. And, I am not young.

No vote as a last resort. I am still watching to see who Dr. Paul will support.

klamath
07-31-2008, 10:14 AM
This is another old republican that won't come to McCain. This will be the first year in my political life that I can watch the election returns without emotion. We will be f**ked one way or another.

georgiaboy
07-31-2008, 10:17 AM
As newcomers, they expressed little party allegiance and little concern that their third-party votes could benefit Obama, a candidate even further from their views than McCain.

"The notion is, let's just break the GOP because the people who are running and holding office in it aren't respecting what the constituents want," said Jay Weeldreyer, a Paul field director in Renton, Wash. "So, if we can just let them suffer a massive loss, then maybe that will get through to them."

sort of, but not really. I consider myself a dedicated Republican based on the traditional principles of the party, and I think I hold more party allegiance than those who say and vote R, but legislate opposite to R. It's those RINO's that are the problem, not me. In order to send a message to these R-elected representatives and to the party leadership, I must let my vote be my voice. This is done to try to save the party, not to destroy it.

pauletteNV
07-31-2008, 10:33 AM
This guy hits the nail on the head. I am one of those repubs who have had enough

He may get a sentence right here and there, but he is infamous for his "Paultard" and other disparaging and condescending remarks about those of us in Nevada who support Dr. Paul. And yes, that is the appropriate way to refer to him. For heaven's sake, he is a doctor! We could not, for example, reverently call McCain (even if we wanted to) Dr. McCain...jeesh, anyway to get in a dig these media folks. Remember the long thread from yesterday and the day before wherein Mike Davis got very involved...another blogger? Well, my guess is he and Muth are one and the same, or....they are brothers or mimicking one another - they definitely both crawled out from under the same rock in the desert of Nevada. Muth gets a lot more attention...and sorrowfully I am not helping here...than he deserves. He and/or Davis should just be ignored.

acptulsa
07-31-2008, 10:47 AM
"...Pose a danger..."

Are they really painting us as perps and McCain as victim? Come on...

pauletteNV
07-31-2008, 10:58 AM
"...Pose a danger..."

Are they really painting us as perps and McCain as victim? Come on...

Maybe...but some have said from the very beginning of the campaign season that McCain was offered up as a sacrifice as the GOP doesn't really want a win. Let the Dems take it and be the fall guys for the upcoming economic slaughter. And, now, we can be their excuse...if it hadn't been for those Ron Paul supporters, just like the Ross Perot supporters before....well, you get the picture.

dealerjim
07-31-2008, 11:38 AM
Maybe...but some have said from the very beginning of the campaign season that McCain was offered up as a sacrifice as the GOP doesn't really want a win. Let the Dems take it and be the fall guys for the upcoming economic slaughter. And, now, we can be their excuse...if it hadn't been for those Ron Paul supporters, just like the Ross Perot supporters before....well, you get the picture.
My sentiments exactly.

surf
07-31-2008, 11:42 AM
simple question: will these powerwhores that run the GOP figure it out? if nothing else, they've shown themselves to be abunduntly stupid and corrupt, so i kind of doubt it.

perhaps they will learn what it is like to be a libertarian (only w/o principles of freedom that we libs hold dear) as the results roll in.

i can't see McCain as a sacrificial lamb; i think the RNC is dumb enough to have believed he could win. The GOP would just blame the Ds for the economic clusterf#ck if McWar won. That's what they do.

Appologies to any that consider themselves Rs at heart (and have voted for these neocons previously). it's not your fault.

Dary
07-31-2008, 11:44 AM
Well, my guess is he and Muth are one and the same, or....they are brothers or mimicking one another - they definitely both crawled out from under the same rock in the desert of Nevada. Muth gets a lot more attention...and sorrowfully I am not helping here...than he deserves. He and/or Davis should just be ignored.

Yeah. Seems like Muth got it right though with his quote:

"I think that you will see not just Libertarians who always vote for the Libertarian candidate but conservative Republicans saying we've had it, we've had enough and they're going to go ahead and vote Libertarian," Muth said.

What's up with that?

acptulsa
07-31-2008, 11:48 AM
simple question: will these powerwhores that run the GOP figure it out?

Yes--when and if we convince the public to stop making them filthy rich for doing what they're doing to us. Not before.

Kim4Paul
07-31-2008, 11:53 AM
I get tired of being called a "follower" rather than a supporter.

orafi
07-31-2008, 11:57 AM
I get tired of being called a "follower" rather than a supporter.

at least you're not a fan (looking at you, obama)

mefleabyte
07-31-2008, 12:31 PM
http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/WILD_WILD_WEST_Dream_On_McAnus

WILD WILD WEST.....Dream On McAnus!

LAS VEGAS (AP) — Dueling delegations pitting Ron Paul's Nevada supporters against those of John McCain vow to take their fight to the Republican National Convention"........."Outside the convention hall, his supporters have reserved a 15,000-seat basketball arena for a "mini-convention."

John E
07-31-2008, 12:45 PM
The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4.

I also LOL'd

Johnnybags
07-31-2008, 12:57 PM
I also LOL'd

because I want to destroy whats left of the financial system faster so we can get new leadership thruout the country. Sounds awful but a pheonix can and will spring from the ashes. McCain will accomplish none of this and it will be a slow bleed, Obama will make almost instantaneous. I want real money or a congress limited in what they can do and only an economic crisis will awaken the sheeple. A slow slog of ever increasing inflation will delay the inevitable, I want it fast. At least Obama is a proud socialist, McCain is worse, a pseudo conservative.

speciallyblend
07-31-2008, 01:36 PM
"The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4."

LOL they really are in a alternate reality aren't they.

haha funny eh. I'm 100% positive i will not vote for mccain or any republican mentioning mccain!!!!!

PatriotOne
07-31-2008, 02:14 PM
"The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4."

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/Yekt40/pigs_flying.jpg

JaylieWoW
07-31-2008, 02:14 PM
"The McCain campaign says they expect many Paul voters to come home to the GOP before Nov. 4."

LOL they really are in a alternate reality aren't they.

And they say WE wear tin foil hats.... :rolleyes:

acptulsa
07-31-2008, 02:18 PM
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e198/Yekt40/pigs_flying.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CydPIf3b-Mc

steph3n
07-31-2008, 02:27 PM
"At the end of the day, Republicans are going to vote for John McCain. He's a Western candidate who understands water issues, land issues. He's a fiscal conservative," said Rick Gorka, a campaign spokesman. "His message is appealing to a broad spectrum of voters."

I LOL'd

I think Gorka is more mentally ill than Phil Gramm after this, which is saying a lot!

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
07-31-2008, 05:43 PM
I get tired of being called a "follower" rather than a supporter.

Those words are carefully chosen, IMO.