Need advice

[zahirakids]

I am on a forum that is pretty much Liberals ! So trying to talk about Ron Paul is just about the Hardest thing to do.

Does anyone have any good advice they could share with me?

Thanks,
kelly

[Spirit of '76]

Kelly, welcome to the forum!

Thanks for trying to spread the word.

I saw your post in the introduction thread, which deals with the "racism" charge. The allegations of racism are patently ridiculous, but that is really all the left has to go on in this case -- that, and abortion.

First of all, make sure that these people know that even the New York Times absolved him of the charges in their long, Sunday-edition feature article about him.

Secondly, make sure they understand that everything Dr. Paul has said or written indicates that he views all people as individuals, not members of certain races. When viewed in this light, it is often the people who most vocally call him a racist who are exhibiting racist thought themselves.

While Dr. Paul views all people as individuals, they insist on viewing individuals as members of various races. Theirs is clearly a more racist position than his.

[brumans]

Kelly, welcome to the forum!

Thanks for trying to spread the word. The allegations of racism are patently ridiculous, but that is really all the left has to go on in this case -- that, and abortion.

First of all, make sure that these people know that even the New York Times absolved him of the charges in their long, Sunday-edition feature article about him.

Secondly, make sure they understand that everything Dr. Paul has said or written indicates that he views all people as individuals, not members of certain races. When viewed in this light, it is often the people who most vocally call him a racist who are exhibiting racist thought themselves.

While Dr. Paul views all people as individuals, they insist on viewing individuals as members of various races. Theirs is clearly a more racist position than his.

Who mentioned anything about racism?

[john_anderson_ii]

I am on a forum that is pretty much Liberals ! So trying to talk about Ron Paul is just about the Hardest thing to do.

Does anyone have any good advice they could share with me?

Thanks,
kelly

I think either he misunderstood OP or is preparing the OP for an inevitable attack that will come out sooner or later.

[Man from La Mancha]

LOL Helping out but wrong post, nice try.:) http://ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=14804

.

[Spirit of '76]

Who mentioned anything about racism?

She did, in another post here. She mentioned the forum was full of liberals who keep insisting Ron Paul is racist.

[1000-points-of-fright]

If the sticking point is abortion, tell them that Ron Paul will make each state decide for themselves. Some may outlaw it completely, others may provide free abortions for everyone, and most will probably be somewhere in between. If you want an abortion you can drive to a pro-choice state or just move there. Tell them that if there's a Federal law legalizing it, then one day there can just as easily be a Federal law outlawing it.

Gun control - strict gun laws only leave good citizens defenseless against criminals who will always have guns. UK and Australia prove that. Plus, gun control is really racism. There were never really any gun laws until the end of slavery. Can't let the negroes have guns, they might still be mad about that whole slavery thing. Libs hate being called racist. The best argument for the 2nd amendment to use against Libs... You're gonna want those guns when Bush (or someone like him) declares himself dictator for life and the extreme Christian Right turns this country into a Theocracy.

Economics is another story. If they are really Left wing, you'll never convince them that a free market is better than a welfare state.

[jjschless]

Ask them about the Constitution. If they care about, if they support it, if they believe that America is strong because of it. Then after some replies go into how the other candidates (not Dr. Paul) don't seem to care to much about it. Wait a bunch more replies, unless of course there is only one or two responses. Then segue into Dr. Paul's stance on the Constitution. Start there. Then work in the rest of the messages.

[Spirit of '76]

I think either he misunderstood OP or is preparing the OP for an inevitable attack that will come out sooner or later.


LOL Helping out but wrong post, nice try.:) http://ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=14804

.

I was responding the concern she raised here:
http://ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=153196&postcount=309

[unconsious767]

This jogs a thought from my cobwebbed brain which was lurking...

Since other forums with politically motivated posters are quite prevalent, and presumably populated with potential voters for the good doctor, would it be a good idea to form a hit squad to visit these fora and change some of their minds?

I.E. post the url's for such threads in a stickied thread here so others can go visit and release their chakras from the typical left/right nonsense they are used to?

Such a hit squad would consist of people with a good knowledge of RP's positions, of course, and are good at persuasion.

[stevedasbach]

I am on a forum that is pretty much Liberals ! So trying to talk about Ron Paul is just about the Hardest thing to do.

Does anyone have any good advice they could share with me?

Thanks,
kelly

Don't use the term "states' rights". To a liberal (I used to be one) it screams racism. Instead, talk about decentralizing power, or letting communities make their own decisions.

Stress the items Paul has said are his top priorities (bring all the troops in Iraq home now, stop trying to police the world, restore civil liberties including right of habeas corpus, repeal unconstitutional executive orders, establish open transparent government). These are all things he can do without any support from Congress. Ask which Democrat has the guts to do anything close to what Ron Paul will do.

Paul will veto big spending bills, especially corporate welfare and pork-barrel spending. No budget deficits, so no more borrowing from the thugs in China. No health-care welfare for HMO's, insurance companies, and big pharmasudical (sp?)companies.

Paul recognizes that people have become dependent on government. Phasing these programs out is NOT Paul's top priority, and also would require Congressional support (unlikely with the Democrats in charge).

Hope that helps.

[zahirakids]

Can anyone give me the source for the NY Times sunday edition?

[Spirit of '76]

Can anyone give me the source for the NY Times sunday edition?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/22/magazine/22Paul-t.html?ex=1342843200&en=dacd6d6f05cda897&ei=5124


In the 1996 general election, Paul’s Democratic opponent Lefty Morris held a press conference to air several shocking quotes from a newsletter that Paul published during his decade away from Washington. Passages described the black male population of Washington as “semi-criminal or entirely criminal” and stated that “by far the most powerful lobby in Washington of the bad sort is the Israeli government.” Morris noted that a Canadian neo-Nazi Web site had listed Paul’s newsletter as a laudably “racialist” publication.

Paul survived these revelations. He later explained that he had not written the passages himself — quite believably, since the style diverges widely from his own. But his response to the accusations was not transparent. When Morris called on him to release the rest of his newsletters, he would not. He remains touchy about it. “Even the fact that you’re asking this question infers, ‘Oh, you’re an anti-Semite,’ ” he told me in June. Actually, it doesn’t. Paul was in Congress when Israel bombed Iraq’s Osirak nuclear plant in 1981 and — unlike the United Nations and the Reagan administration — defended its right to do so. He says Saudi Arabia has an influence on Washington equal to Israel’s. His votes against support for Israel follow quite naturally from his opposition to all foreign aid. There is no sign that they reflect any special animus against the Jewish state.

[The_Spaniard]

This jogs a thought from my cobwebbed brain which was lurking...

Since other forums with politically motivated posters are quite prevalent, and presumably populated with potential voters for the good doctor, would it be a good idea to form a hit squad to visit these fora and change some of their minds?

I.E. post the url's for such threads in a stickied thread here so others can go visit and release their chakras from the typical left/right nonsense they are used to?

Such a hit squad would consist of people with a good knowledge of RP's positions, of course, and are good at persuasion.


YES! That would be wonderful! However you would have to integrate
yourself SLOOOWWLY into this forum some of them are vipers! They
will be onto you so fast.

Btw, I also belong to this forum ...i am a friend of Zahiras

[zahirakids]

Thank you!

[1000-points-of-fright]

Since other forums with politically motivated posters are quite prevalent, and presumably populated with potential voters for the good doctor, would it be a good idea to form a hit squad to visit these fora and change some of their minds?

Haha, you used fora instead of forums. I salute you sir!

[zahirakids]

In oder to post at some forums like Motheringdotcommune in there Politics section all new members must have at least 50 posts and have been a member for 60 days :(

So JOIN RIGHT NOW and make your fifty posts :)

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/index.php

[Kregener]

Do not talk about why Ron Paul is so right, talk about how all the others are just so plain WRONG.

When they chime up with; "Well, it sounds like you can't stand any of them!", THEN you keep pointing them toward Ron Paul.

[katao]

Most liberals believe they are motivated by compassion. I have found the key to discussing issues with them is to play to their compassion. Help them to see that the government, because it uses force, ends up harming the very things that are most important to them.

The absolute master of this technique is Mary Ruwart, and I couldn't recommend her book, "Healing Our World" more strongly as a gift to this group.

A great resource for your efforts can be found at: http://www.theadvocates.org/ruwart/categories_list.php
It is excerpts of Mary's other book - short answers in convenient categories.

Keep it up. I really believe that sincere democrats are often more receptive to Ron Paul's message than Republicans (who often completely tune out as soon as Iraq starts being discussed).

[SlapItHigh]

Hi mamas!

I have been a member of the other forum being referred to here for years. Overall there is a lot of hostility towards libertarians. The thing is, there are actually a lot of libertarians on the forum (there are 90,000 registered members there so big place). Most of the liberatrians stay out of the politics forum because the liberals there tend to gang up on people pretty fast. One libertarian mother in particular was attacked like crazy for mentioning that she didn't want a SSN for her child.

Keep in mind that this is supposedly a group of mothers whose common aspect is the desire to raise children as individuals. You could almost call it libertarian parenting.

Anywho, here were some of the allegations:

Ron appeared on a racist radio show (this is actually false - I emailed and called the show directly and I emailed the campaign to verify, Ron has refused all request to be on this show but they still claim he was on the show with no proof other than the list linked)


Council of Conservative Citizens has a radio show called "The Political Cesspool".
Here is the show's list of guests:
http://www.thepoliticalcesspool.org/guestlist.php
Here is the show's statement of principles:
http://www.thepoliticalcesspool.org/statement.php

Quote:
We believe the United States is a Christian country.
The traditional family is the basic unit of human society.
We must have cultural and national integrity.
English is the official language to be used in public discourse in America.


Ron Paul also had a regular column in the official newsletter of the Council of Conservative Citizens' newsletter, the Citizen Informer. Here is an archived newsletter containing one of his articles:
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache... &ct=clnk&cd=2

I gave proof that this was incorrect as well and they conceded that he didn't have a regular column but still insist that he had a sporatic column. The fact is that this newsletter reprinted one of his Straight Talk articles and that is it, point blank.


He also spoke in front of the Southern Historical Conference
http://www.sipoftexas.org/ronpaul.php

I pointed out that this isn't even racist but they claim that it is because a topic from this group suggested that slavery was not the real reason for the civil war. Great logic, huh?


and he spoke at a neo-confederate succession conference
http://web.archive.org/web/200009191...com/Essay1.htm

This "neo-confederate" conferecne was a Ludwig von Mises conference. They think LVM is racist.

After I posted the corrections they responded saying they stood by their claims and the thread was quickly deleted by the moderators. The false claims were up there for days but once I refuted the claims the thread was removed. I assume most never got to read the truth.

[SlapItHigh]

Ask them about the Constitution. If they care about, if they support it, if they believe that America is strong because of it.

They actually don't like the constitution. They think it only serves the interests of rich white men. Seriously.

They also think that having freedom and liberty will make us like Bagdad.

[SlapItHigh]

The absolute master of this technique is Mary Ruwart, and I couldn't recommend her book, "Healing Our World" more strongly as a gift to this group.

I'm glad you mentioned that. I am reading this book right now. I wish I could mail a copy to each of the mothers on that board.

[max]

hard core liberals are a lost cause.

Focus your time and energy on:

A: Conservative Republicans who now have doubts about the war (forget the neo-cons)

B: Independents
C: Non political people who have tuned out because "they are all the same"
D: Business owners (IRS and regulation issue)
E: Gun Owners
F: Church goers (forget the Christian Zionist rapture crowd)
G: Arabs and Muslims (I am having enormous success with them. They fear the Patriot Act, they oppose military aid to Israel, they oppose the Iraq war, and they are generally socially conservative.
H: Pot smokers
I: Online gamblers
J: Pro life
K: well meaning and open minded Democrats who just need a little education

I applaud your efforts, but your time is better spent targetting the above groups as opposed to spinning wheeles with brainwashed commies.

[SlapItHigh]

hard core liberals are a lost cause.

I agree with you on that but you must understand that we are not talking about a liberal forum. We are talking about a mothering forum with 90,000 members of all political affiliations. The liberals there are ganging together and making Ron out to seem like the worst thing ever and some comments I've seen in response are:


Wow, I was going to vote for him but now I'm not.


I was interested in him but could never support a bigot like that.


I've never heard of him before but it sounds like he's not getting off to a good start.

and


I'm a libertarian and even I wouldn't vote for him.

just to name a few. Then there are all the people reading but not posting. This is not good exposure here at all. We aren't talking about a forum with 100 people on it. Someone asked about how to get the women vote. This is it, 90,000 women on one board and this is how Ron is being pushed - as a racist and bigot.

[max]

I agree with you on that but you must understand that we are not talking about a liberal forum. We are talking about a mothering forum with 90,000 members of all political affiliations. The liberals there are ganging together and making Ron out to seem like the worst thing ever and some comments I've seen in response are:







and



just to name a few. Then there are all the people reading but not posting. This is not good exposure here at all. We aren't talking about a forum with 100 people on it. Someone asked about how to get the women vote. This is it, 90,000 women on one board and this is how Ron is being pushed - as a racist and bigot.



maybe you should play the OB-GYN card...deliverd 4000 babies...

family man..married 50 years as compared to thrice married adulterer Rudy and Fred with his trophy wife young enough to be his daughter..

It all goes back to my original theory that we discusssed...you concede my point now?...LOL

[SlapItHigh]

maybe you should play the OB-GYN card...deliverd 4000 babies...

Actually this was the first thing used against him on that forum. These women are very educated on childbirth so they know the history of childbirth in America and it isn't good regarding OBs (already posted a tangent on the women thread). Most of these women birth with midwives or even alone. OB = Misogonyst around there (I have to pretty much agree with them on that).

These women know that they don't need men to "deliver" their babies. And frankly, they wouldn't want men to take that power from them.

[max]

Actually this was the first thing used against him on that forum. These women are very educated on childbirth so they know the history of childbirth in America and it isn't good regarding OBs (already posted a tangent on the women thread). Most of these women birth with midwives or even alone. OB = Misogonyst around there (I have to pretty much agree with them on that).

These women know that they don't need men to "deliver" their babies. And frankly, they wouldn't want men to take that power from them.

How about their babies being born with a 50 trillion dollar debt chain wrapped around them?

when I told my Democrat sister-in-law that her daughters have no shot of ever achieving the lifestyle that she has unless we scale back spending...it really made her think.

national debt = 9 trillion unfunded liabilities 40 trillion more..

if that doesnt scare mommy i dont know what will...I think the best thing to do is post you tube videos. When they see that he's a soft spoken grandfather type, that horrible image those fools created won't hold....I always post links to RON PAUL STOP DREAMING....If it made me me choke up I'm sure it will make the mommies cry

[WannaBfree]

from http://www.ronpaulfreedomforums.org/viewtopic.php?id=151

For example, we found a thread on abortion on a message board in a very liberal area of the country. We didn't even mention RP, but introduced the idea and the benefits of the federal government staying out of the issue and leaving it at the state or local level. While this doesn't promote RP directly, when the liberal members there come across RP (on another thread ;)), they won't be so put off by the idea that RP doesn't support federal funding for abortion. We did the same thing on the issue of government aid vs. private charities, churches, etc...

My suggestion would be to do it slowly and methodically. If you yourself are a liberal, you might just honestly explain why you choose RP over Democrat candidates.

[SlapItHigh]

I think the best thing to do is post you tube videos.

I agree that these can be powerful. We have been posting them and I truly hope people are clicking on the links and watching. Guess I should post some more!

[max]

I agree that these can be powerful. We have been posting them and I truly hope people are clicking on the links and watching. Guess I should post some more!

Have you seen "RON PAUL STOP DREAMING"......awesome..very emotional....I list it on all of my groups flyers

[zahirakids]

It is so nice to be here at this forum! Youhave no idea what a mess it is at the other one..Literally within an hour the posts went from 79 up over 200 by these women who are really ignorant and won't even comment on any of the true facts.

Believe it or not they even have stated that they want Rue Paul to Run for president...

it is great to come to a place that has some great ideas that I would not have thought of...


My head is still spinning from that forum!:eek:

[Green Mountain Boy]

It is so nice to be here at this forum! Youhave no idea what a mess it is at the other one..Literally within an hour the posts went from 79 up over 200 by these women who are really ignorant and won't even comment on any of the true facts.

Believe it or not they even have stated that they want Rue Paul to Run for president...

it is great to come to a place that has some great ideas that I would not have thought of...


My head is still spinning from that forum!:eek:

I've tried informing people about Ron Paul on the ibrattleboro.com forum, but I get a lot of the same liberal shenanigans, so I know how you feel.

It probably doesn't help that it is in one of the most liberal counties in the country.