PDA

View Full Version : Arrest attempt on Karl Rove in Iowa leads to 4 arrests




Jamsie 567
07-25-2008, 07:46 PM
God bless these people....

Story

Four Iowans were arrested today while attempting to make a Citizens' Arrest of Karl Rove in Des Moines, Iowa. Citing Iowa Code provisions for making Citizen's Arrests as well as citing Federal Statute violations they claimed Rove had violated, the four were stopped at the gate of the Wakonda Country Club in Des Moines where Rove was scheduled to speak at a Republican Fundraiser.

The four arrested were retired Methodist minister and Peace and Justice Advocate, Rev. Chet Guinn, 80, as well as three Des Moines Catholic Workers, Edward Bloomer, 61, Kirk Brown, 25, and Mona Shaw, 57. All four were cited for trespassing and released.

The four maintained that they were acting within the guidelines of Iowa Code that obligate private citizens to make such an arrest if they believe a felony has been committed and turn Rove over to police officials to bring Rove before a judge for formal indictment. By law, a federal judge should consider the charges and determine if an indictment should be made.

Full Article

http://www.iowapolitics.com/index.iml?Article=132059

torchbearer
07-25-2008, 07:50 PM
Won't happen. should happen.

aspiringconstitutionalist
07-25-2008, 07:57 PM
Unfortunately, I have a feeling this sort of publicity might be hurting their cause more than helping.

torchbearer
07-25-2008, 07:59 PM
Unfortunately, I have a feeling this sort of publicity might be hurting their cause more than helping.

i thought so too until i read they were ministers and not some punk anarchist causing chaos or some BS.

libertythor
07-25-2008, 08:02 PM
The story is at the top in my favorites section on the profile.



http://digg.com/users/libertyth0r

Jeremy
07-25-2008, 08:04 PM
What exactly were their reasons?

libertythor
07-25-2008, 08:06 PM
What exactly were their reasons?

The Reuters article alludes to war crimes.


http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN2537776420080725

torchbearer
07-25-2008, 08:06 PM
What exactly were their reasons?

help lead our country into an unnecessary war?

ItsTime
07-25-2008, 08:07 PM
maybe next time they will exercise some of their other amendment rights

Jeremy
07-25-2008, 08:07 PM
maybe next time they will exercise some of their other amendment rights

ya... um... no

That would be unsmart. GOSH

ItsTime
07-25-2008, 08:09 PM
ya... um... no

That would be unsmart. GOSH

You are against bringing protesters?

Jeremy
07-25-2008, 08:11 PM
oh, i thought you were talking about quartering troops in homes

my b!

Dave
07-25-2008, 08:18 PM
This was a $100/plate luncheon at a snazzy golf club. For $1,000 you could get a photo with him. At our state convention they were promoting a contest where the person who made the most phone calls on behalf of McCain would win a photo with Karl Rove. I'm not making this up.

I think the Iowa GOP has lost its marbles.

libertythor
07-25-2008, 08:19 PM
maybe next time they will exercise some of their other amendment rights

You are talking about "mooning" as a protected 1st amendement form of expression, right? :D

ItsTime
07-25-2008, 08:24 PM
we have become a bunch of letter writing pussies.... DO SOMETHING.

Jeremy
07-25-2008, 08:24 PM
This was a $100/plate luncheon at a snazzy golf club. For $1,000 you could get a photo with him. At our state convention they were promoting a contest where the person who made the most phone calls on behalf of McCain would win a photo with Karl Rove. I'm not making this up.

I think the Iowa GOP has lost its marbles.

Sheesh... you could probably just get a photo with him for free. And I don't even mean in a creepy way. Just go ask him =O

Doktor_Jeep
07-25-2008, 08:26 PM
ya... um... no

That would be unsmart. GOSH

Now now.

That level of operation is CLASSIFIED.

dude58677
07-25-2008, 08:32 PM
This is what Bush and his cronies have to fear the rest of their lives. This is only the beginning. :)


This was inspired by Vincent Buglosi!:)

libertythor
07-25-2008, 08:34 PM
Students at the University of Auckland in New Zealand put a 500,000 dollar bounty out for a citizen's arrest of Condoleeza Rice as well for when she visits.

Maverick
07-25-2008, 08:36 PM
Condi Rice could be about to face the same thing. I heard something on the news the other day about a group of Aussies that wanted to make a citizen's arrest on her as soon as she touched down in KangarooLand on her trip.

(Ozwest, is that you? :p)

Maverick
07-25-2008, 08:38 PM
Students at the University of Auckland in New Zealand put a 500,000 dollar bounty out for a citizen's arrest of Condoleeza Rice as well for when she visits.

Damn! You beat me to it.

So, yeah...I knew it was Australia or New Zealand or...whatever. :o

idiom
07-26-2008, 02:42 AM
This is why we can't get a free trade agreement.

That and we refuse to develop Nuclear Weapons.

Man I hope we get her :)

Luft97
07-26-2008, 03:13 AM
we have become a bunch of letter writing pussies.... DO SOMETHING.

Don't you understand? That is the direction we are being led in. Write letters, talk on the Internet, wait for the next "BIG" announcement, and let those other people fight for our rights. It is a very effective neutralization technique.

Don't get your hopes up.

idiom
07-26-2008, 03:20 AM
Why do you guys even have a second amendment?

lynnf
07-26-2008, 05:36 AM
What exactly were their reasons?


this may not be one of the reasons that they listed, but how about contempt of Congress for refusal to testify?

lynn

nobody's_hero
07-26-2008, 05:47 AM
Why do you guys even have a second amendment?

Don't know. It is kind of like the Stonehenge. Many people like to have their pictures taken with it every year, but no one knows its purpose :D

Having said that, we once tarred and feathered public officials for their acts of tyranny. Now, we're too politically correct to allow such interesting forms of protest.

Luft97
07-27-2008, 04:20 PM
Why do you guys even have a second amendment?

Well, you have to understand that when the second amendment was written the common man had access to the same technology and armaments that the government had. It was a level playing field of sorts. Now that is FAR FAR from the case.

Sarge
07-27-2008, 04:45 PM
Come on people do some research. Not 500K but 5K and withdrawn,

http://news.theage.com.au/world/nz-students-recall-rices-arrest-bounty-20080725-3kwy.html

Now if 10M was raised, who knows. I am not putting down their efforts but it is going to take every State and every Country on the same track.

You the taxpayer, are paying to protect them. It sucks, doesn't it?

ChickenHawk
07-27-2008, 05:08 PM
Oh there's a great idea. Karl Rove had no real political power and could not have taken the country to war under any circumstances. Maybe they should focus on 296 members of Congress, 77 Senators , President Bush and the First Circuit Court of Appeals for "war crimes". I suppose pointing out that three branches of government approved this war gives it a little too much legitimacy. Don't want to let the truth get in the way of a good protest.

CopThatSupportsRonPaul
07-27-2008, 05:28 PM
Well duh? Those 4 people aren't very bright are they.

You can only make a citizen's arrest if you actually witness a person commit a felony before your eyes. Else, you are committing false imprisonment which is a misdemeanor with up to 1 year in jail depending on jurisdiction.

As much as I hate Karl Rove, he has the same rights as everyone else.

These 4 people who were trying to make the citizen's arrest should have googled what a citizens arrest is and when you can perform them, before they actually went and did it.

Carole
07-27-2008, 08:05 PM
Apparently, now they have taken away our right to Citizen's Arrest.

James Madison
07-27-2008, 08:10 PM
ya... um... no

That would be unsmart. GOSH

Let's just hope it doesn't come to that.

CopThatSupportsRonPaul
07-28-2008, 08:59 AM
Apparently, now they have taken away our right to Citizen's Arrest.


? No, it's the same as it's always been.

If you witness someone committing a felony before your eyes, for instance if you are in a store and see someone with a gun demand cash from the register, you can perform a citizen's arrest.

But just "thinking" that Karl Rove is responsible for murder is, even if he is, if you didn't see him commit murder with your own two eyes is not enough to perform a citizen's arrest.

That's how it's always been since the start of this country....

so nothing new.

torchbearer
07-28-2008, 09:51 AM
? No, it's the same as it's always been.

If you witness someone committing a felony before your eyes, for instance if you are in a store and see someone with a gun demand cash from the register, you can perform a citizen's arrest.

But just "thinking" that Karl Rove is responsible for murder is, even if he is, if you didn't see him commit murder with your own two eyes is not enough to perform a citizen's arrest.

That's how it's always been since the start of this country....

so nothing new.

What if you believe the person to be a fugitive? As in, someone who failed to report to court? A person who is in contempt of court would be a fugitive and subject to citizens arrest.
Rove failed to answer a summons before congress, and it was agreed in the impeachment hearing that it is the same as not appearing in court. a contempt of court, which would qualify for impeachment, and is a crime.

ChickenHawk
07-28-2008, 10:00 AM
What if you believe the person to be a fugitive? As in, someone who failed to report to court? A person who is in contempt of court would be a fugitive and subject to citizens arrest.
Rove failed to answer a summons before congress, and it was agreed in the impeachment hearing that it is the same as not appearing in court. a contempt of court, which would qualify for impeachment, and is a crime.


Is failure to appear a felony?

torchbearer
07-28-2008, 10:08 AM
Is failure to appear a felony?

depends on the jurisdiction.
there is felony contempt.

torchbearer
07-28-2008, 10:09 AM
1. Felony contempt. (a) A person who knowingly and willfully disobeys
a subpoena lawfully issued in relation to a crime of violence, as defined in section 609.11,
subdivision 9 , with the intent to obstruct the criminal justice process is guilty of a felony and
may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than five years or to payment of a fine of not
more than $10,000, or both.
(b) A felony charge under this subdivision may be filed upon the person's nonappearance.
However, the charge must be dismissed if the person voluntarily appears within 48 hours after
the time required for appearance on the subpoena and reappears as directed by the court until
discharged from the subpoena by the court. This paragraph does not apply if the person appears as
a result of being apprehended by law enforcement authorities.

mconder
07-28-2008, 11:01 AM
we have become a bunch of letter writing pussies.... DO SOMETHING.

No doubt. This was awesome! We need more people with this kind of courage.

ChickenHawk
07-28-2008, 02:29 PM
Karl Rove can't be arrested until he is actually found in contempt. That hasn't happened yet. The Judiciary Committee voted to find him in contempt but the full House still hasn't voted on it and probably won't until next year. Also, the contempt has nothing to do with the Iraq war. This was about the US Attorneys firings, something Congress is wasting there time investigating because Bush was completely within his right to fire them regardless of whether or not it was for political reasons. There is also a good chance the courts will eventually side with Rove on his refusal to testify anyway.

CopThatSupportsRonPaul
07-28-2008, 03:57 PM
What if you believe the person to be a fugitive? As in, someone who failed to report to court? A person who is in contempt of court would be a fugitive and subject to citizens arrest.
Rove failed to answer a summons before congress, and it was agreed in the impeachment hearing that it is the same as not appearing in court. a contempt of court, which would qualify for impeachment, and is a crime.


The crime has to be in progress and you witnessing it with your own eyes, right there at the scene.

"failure to appear" is not something you can really witness with your eyes, and you have no way of knowing if he even failed to appear, you only assume he failed to appear because the media is saying he did, and you can't perform a citizen's arrest based on evidence you hear from someone else (even if from the all mighty media). you have to see the crime happen with your own two eyes.


so no.


If Mr. Rove whipped out a machete and lopped someone's head off while you were watching, then yes you could perform a citizens arrest on him.

If you only heard from someone that he did it, then you can't perform a citizen's arrest.



The point of making a citizen's arrest is to hold the bad guy and prevent him from leaving the scene of the crime, while waiting for the police to arrive and take him into custody.

Which BTW I don't recommend doing. 9 times out of 10, people who try to make citizens arrests end up getting hurt badly themselves. If you see some psychopath kill someone with a machete, it's not a bright idea to go and try to perform a citizen's arrest on him. Stay away from him, alert police, but please do not try to take him on yourself... you just don't have the training and the gear.

dude58677
07-28-2008, 09:05 PM
Cops, the government is prohibited from denying bounty hunters from making citzen arrests. Bouty hunters are not members of any public police force and are instead private citizens arresting fugitives.

ChickenHawk
07-28-2008, 09:14 PM
Cops, the government is prohibited from denying bounty hunters from making citzen arrests. Bouty hunters are not members of any public police force and are instead private citizens arresting fugitives.

Are you implying that Karl Rove is a fugitive?

torchbearer
07-28-2008, 09:21 PM
Are you implying that Karl Rove is a fugitive?

he is. for not appearing before congress when summoned.

ChickenHawk
07-28-2008, 09:42 PM
he is. for not appearing before congress when summoned.


Wouldn't there have to be an arrest warrant issued or formal charges filed before he could be considered a fugitive?

I ran a red light this morning and I'm sure some people saw it happen. Does that make me a fugitive from justice?

torchbearer
07-28-2008, 09:43 PM
Wouldn't there have to be an arrest warrant issued or formal charges filed before he could be considered a fugitive?

I ran a red light this morning and I'm sure some people saw it happen. Does that make me a fugitive from justice?

It was discussed at the impeachment hearings... congress has filed a warrant, but it was agreed, that is was indeed a crime not to appear before congress when summoned.

ChickenHawk
07-28-2008, 09:47 PM
"congress has filed a warrant"

What exactly does that mean? Can congress issue a warrant for his arrest? It was my understanding that the courts could issue a warrant once Congress officially finds him in contempt.

steph3n
07-28-2008, 09:54 PM
I will make calls for McCain :D

on his penny and encourage people not to vote for him.

dude58677
07-28-2008, 09:59 PM
"congress has filed a warrant"

What exactly does that mean? Can congress issue a warrant for his arrest? It was my understanding that the courts could issue a warrant once Congress officially finds him in contempt.

Battleboro, VT issued an arrest warrant for George Bush and Dick Cheney. Once they leave office and do not appear in court, they are fugitives from justice and thus a bounty hunter can arrest them and bring them in to stand trial.

ChickenHawk
07-28-2008, 10:55 PM
Battleboro, VT issued an arrest warrant for George Bush and Dick Cheney. Once they leave office and do not appear in court, they are fugitives from justice and thus a bounty hunter can arrest them and bring them in to stand trial.

Okay but what does that have to do with Karl Rove. Also, "bounty hunters" are actually bail bond enforcement not freelance police officers. A bounty hunter could not legally detain GWB or Cheney and haul them back to Vermont. I have to admit I'd love to see that episode of Dog the Bounty hunter though.

dude58677
07-28-2008, 11:05 PM
Okay but what does that have to do with Karl Rove. Also, "bounty hunters" are actually bail bond enforcement not freelance police officers. A bounty hunter could not legally detain GWB or Cheney and haul them back to Vermont. I have to admit I'd love to see that episode of Dog the Bounty hunter though.

1) They can because they issued an arrest and indictment.

2) There are very little limitations in Vermont law concerning bounty hunters.

3) Vincent Bugliosi is meeting with over 1,000 local and State officers to have Bush arrested and charged with murder. He just testified to Congress about Bush being guilty of first degree murder.

Bush is in for his own Bronco Chase!

ChickenHawk
07-28-2008, 11:17 PM
1) They can because they issued an arrest and indictment.

2) There are very little limitations in Vermont law concerning bounty hunters.

3) Vincent Bugliosi is meeting with over 1,000 local and State officers to have Bush arrested and charged with murder. He just testified to Congress about Bush being guilty of first degree murder.

Bush is in for his own Bronco Chase!

No I don't think so. Besides even if Bush is guilty of murder it wasn't in VT so they are a little bit out of their jurisdiction. And again, what does this have to do with Karl Rove?

Knightskye
07-28-2008, 11:19 PM
Won't happen. should happen.

You should unplug your keyboard.

Won't happen, should happen. :rolleyes:

ChickenHawk
07-28-2008, 11:23 PM
You should unplug your keyboard.

Won't happen, should happen. :rolleyes:


What do you have against torchbearer's keyboard?

dude58677
07-28-2008, 11:31 PM
No I don't think so. Besides even if Bush is guilty of murder it wasn't in VT so they are a little bit out of their jurisdiction. And again, what does this have to do with Karl Rove?

They do have jurisdiction because the people of Battleboro were taxed to pay for the war. Also Bush is indicted for violating the Constitution. Under article 6 this is a penalty of perjury and the state and local governments have the reserved power under the tenth amendment to indict Bush and he is being indicted for this very charge.

Vincent Bugliosi lays out the case for murder which again is what Battleboro is being charged for:

http://www.prosecutionofbush.com


What does this have to do with Karl Rove? Karl Rove will be driving Bushes Bronco.

torchbearer
07-28-2008, 11:33 PM
What do you have against torchbearer's keyboard?

my right alt key gets stuck sometimes.

ChickenHawk
07-28-2008, 11:33 PM
What does this have to do with Karl Rove? Karl Rove will be driving Bushes Bronco.


You know whats funny about that is that Bush actually does own a Ford Bronco.

RevolutionSD
07-29-2008, 12:02 AM
i thought so too until i read they were ministers and not some punk anarchist causing chaos or some BS.

Nothing wrong with anarchists.

Anarchy & chaos are polar opposites BTW.

dude58677
07-29-2008, 06:53 AM
You know whats funny about that is that Bush actually does own a Ford Bronco.

For real? :D

torchbearer
07-29-2008, 08:51 AM
Nothing wrong with anarchists.

Anarchy & chaos are polar opposites BTW.

Only in a idealistic mind.
Communism on paper is utopia, but in practice it is tyranny.

ChickenHawk
07-29-2008, 09:33 AM
For real? :D

I've seen news footage of GWB driving an early 70's blue Ford Bronco on his ranch. It could have been a prop for a photo op but it looked to me like something he might really own.

acptulsa
07-29-2008, 09:36 AM
I've seen news footage of GWB driving an early 70's blue Ford Bronco on his ranch. It could have been a prop for a photo op but it looked to me like something he might really own.

At least Reagan could handle a horse...