Preparing for the economic crisis

[anarchy]

What do you people suggest is the best way to prepare? Stock in food supplies, buy gold bars and keep them at home?

[forsmant]

If you can afford a gold bar, give me some money.

[tangent4ronpaul]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=147618

[ClayTrainor]

Im at the stage in my life where i'd really like to buy a house, but im not sure that's a good decision.

I have about $2000 worth of gold and silver, and am thinking about buying some gold bars instead of a house. Still not sure on that one though.

Buying food sounds like a good idea.

[torchbearer]

Im at the stage in my life where i'd really like to buy a house, but im not sure that's a good decision.

I have about $2000 worth of gold and silver, and am thinking about buying some gold bars instead of a house. Still not sure on that one though.

Buying food sounds like a good idea.

depends on how you look at it... you could end up getting your house for a steal if you play your cards right.
If you have enough savings to cover your ass for a few months... you could use hyperinflation to pay off your house for pennies on the dollar.

[Feelgood]

Im currently working on a website for just this purpose. I had an idea about a week or so ago to do this. Im going to use this site to educate people about our cause. Using the upcoming depression as the backbone. As the economy worsens, I feel more and more people will look to the internet for answers and possible solutions. Im assembling a preparation check list to help people prepare. Will include all things about self preservation for you and your family through things like gardening, hydroponics, things to stock pile and the quantities. All the little things you may not think of in a time of crisis. Meds, pet foods, replacement wear and tear items, etc etc. Im hoping to have the most comprehensive list and site on this topic. While there, I will have sections, forums for discussions and links to information to explain to people what exactly is going on, and why. Explain why the FIAT money system has collapsed our economy again, why the Constitution specifies only "gold and silver", etc etc etc. You get the idea, people will come looking for answers, and *hopefully* get an education to boot.

The only reason I have decided to go this route is because the MSM has pretty much effectively labeled RP and his supporters as complete loons. As such, I feel that if people go to a site, like the CFL site, and see RP splashed all over it, they may be less inclined to stick around or keep an open mind. However, if they come to a site that has no Ron Paul on it, just his un-quoted quotes :D and teachings, while they are there looking for help, hopefully I can start to re-educate them. Once we are past this next depression stage, Im hopeful there will be enough individuals out there, knowledgeable enough, that we dont repeat the same mistakes again in the future.

This site will be a bit depressing and un-nerving, in that I have images from the original great depression embedded into the site. Seems we need these little reminders, in order to keep moving forward. :(


Im at the stage in my life where i'd really like to buy a house, but im not sure that's a good decision.

I have about $2000 worth of gold and silver, and am thinking about buying some gold bars instead of a house. Still not sure on that one though.

Buying food sounds like a good idea.

TB is right, with the market going the way it is, you could easily pick up a property dirt cheap. It is more a buyers market, each passing day. Im sitting in a great 4/2 right now, and the owner is desperate to sell. Originally he was asking $500,000 for this house. Six months ago, he was "willing to let it go" for only $300,000. :) Im banking in another year I will be able to get it for far less then that!

Also, if you think buying your food sounds good, how bout learning to grow your own food? Nothing like being able to feed your family, and then *sell* your excess and make money on food, instead of buying your own. :) Sounds like a much better plan to me.

[Dorfsmith]

What do you people suggest is the best way to prepare? Stock in food supplies, buy gold bars and keep them at home?

I can't afford gold but I am buying silver, food, and shotgun shells...all of which will be the currency of the future :D

[Sematary]

My wife already thinks I'm a little whacked anyway so I didn't tell her that I was starting to squirrel away some food. I'm hoping these dire predictions on our economy don't come true (much like the thunderstorms we DIDN'T get last night) but I want to be prepared, just in case.

[OhioMichael]

Lew Rockwell Podcast: What to do in the Depression (http://www.lewrockwell.com/podcast/?p=episode&name=2008-07-23_004_what_to_do_in_the_depression.mp3)

[Ozwest]

Iceland, Norway, New Zealand, or Australia.

Or for the budget conscious..

Central America is a good place to start.

[Ozwest]

There are still many south Pacific islands still relatively un-affected by tourism.

Otherwise...

Stand and fight.

[SnappleLlama]

Iceland, Norway, New Zealand, or Australia.

Or for the budget conscious..

Central America is a good place to start.

What about Japan? Too expensive?

[Ozwest]

What about Japan? Too expensive?

Expensive, and too fucking repressive.

On the up side...

Japanese women are sexy. :D

[SnappleLlama]

Expensive, and too fucking repressive.

On the up side...

Japanese women are sexy. :D

LOL! They only think guys are sexy if you look effeminate enough to be in a Final Fantasy game :D

Yeah, I just noticed that Japan is planning to ban knives...WTF?? Screw that!

[Ninja Homer]

depends on how you look at it... you could end up getting your house for a steal if you play your cards right.
If you have enough savings to cover your ass for a few months... you could use hyperinflation to pay off your house for pennies on the dollar.

That's what I'm thinking. Build up a huge supply of necessities, and if we have hyperinflation (as many are predicting) you should be able to sell it for a lot of dollars. Since a mortgage is a contract set in dollars, you would be able to pay it off pretty easily. $5000 in canned food, liquor, ammo, and silver might be enough to pay off a $200,000 mortgage, depending on how bad the hyperinflation gets.

Just make sure you have enough stored up to get by, as well as to trade for things you may need and didn't think of.

I'm thinking about buying a hobby farm. A friend of my brothers bought a 20 acre farm out in the sticks for $35k. I could probably find somebody who would work the land to pay me rent, and in a SHTF scenario I could head there and have a good food supply to live on and trade for anything else I need.

You can never go wrong investing in yourself. Pick some kind of trade that sounds fun, and learn it. Preferably a trade that doesn't require energy to produce. If there's a depression, we're still all going to need stuff, but we won't be able to afford to buy it oversees. I'm learning to fix up bicycles, and I've started going to garage sales buying old bikes. I'm guessing that as gas prices go up there will be more demand for bikes. I want to figure out how to make my own multi-person bikes and utility bikes.

Some other trades that would do well to get through a depression: farming, hunting, fishing, logging, handyman, blacksmithing (I might have to give that a try, I always wanted to make my own knives), making things that generate electricity (windmills, hydro, solar, etc), sewing, knitting, holistic health, preserving foods, baking (ever try to bake bread on a fire or with a solar oven? it definitely takes some skill), making ammo, making beer or wine, distilling liquor (yeah, it's illegal to do, but in a depression that would be the least of law enforcement's worries), etc.

Pick some skill like that to invest some time and money in learning, and make sure it's something that sounds fun to you. Even if you never need to use that skill to make ends meet, at least you'll have a hobby.

[Ozwest]

LOL! They only think guys are sexy if you look effeminate enough to be in a Final Fantasy game :D

Yeah, I just noticed that Japan is planning to ban knives...WTF?? Screw that!

Contradicting my traditional male role in order to get laid...

What's the problem in that? :D

[RevolutionSD]

What do you people suggest is the best way to prepare? Stock in food supplies, buy gold bars and keep them at home?

Physical gold and silver. Little to no debt. Some cash. Updated passport. And, read my blog! goldmoney.wordpress.com

[Ozwest]

Physical gold and silver. Little to no debt. Some cash. Updated passport. And, read my blog! goldmoney.wordpress.com

Good advice.

[Thomas_Paine]

Iceland, Norway, New Zealand, or Australia.

Or for the budget conscious..

Central America is a good place to start.

Nicaragua, beautiful fertile land for $500 an acre.

[Ozwest]

Nicaragua, beautiful fertile land for $500 an acre.

I'll bring my diggers and know how...

You bring the money and mosquito repelant. :)

[robert4rp08]

Pack stuff away like you're going camping/cabining: Water, soap, toothpaste, toilet paper, first aid kit, thermal blanket, sleeping bag, etc.

[Ozwest]

Pack stuff away like you're going camping/cabining: Water, soap, toothpaste, toilet paper, first aid kit, thermal blanket, sleeping bag, etc.

Are you for real, or a weekend explorer?

[crhoades]

http://www.survivalblog.com/

You can read it for days!

[Deborah K]

depends on how you look at it... you could end up getting your house for a steal if you play your cards right.
If you have enough savings to cover your ass for a few months... you could use hyperinflation to pay off your house for pennies on the dollar.

I'd like to know more about paying my house off for pennies on the dollar. Can you help?

[torchbearer]

I'd like to know more about paying my house off for pennies on the dollar. Can you help?

It will be the function of hyper-inflation that will help you pay off your house cheaply.
The question is.. can you survive long enough for wages to meet the rise in prices.
If you can, you will have a lot of worthless money to pay of your worthless debt.
If you owe $100,000 on your house, hyper-inflation occurs, you have hundred dollars bills like you have one dollar bills today. That $100,000 is like $10,000.
It is denominated in dollars. So hyper-inflation allows for people to pay off past loans cheaply.
Now if you are selling your property before hyper-inflation, you will lose.
If you buy property after hyper-inflation, you will lose.
But if you take on debt prior to inflation, you come out ahead.

[Deborah K]

It will be the function of hyper-inflation that will help you pay off your house cheaply.
The question is.. can you survive long enough for wages to meet the rise in prices.
If you can, you will have a lot of worthless money to pay of your worthless debt.
If you owe $100,000 on your house, hyper-inflation occurs, you have hundred dollars bills like you have one dollar bills today. That $100,000 is like $10,000.
It is denominated in dollars. So hyper-inflation allows for people to pay off past loans cheaply.
Now if you are selling your property, you will lose.
If you buy property after hyper-inflation, you will lose.
But if you take on debt prior to inflation, you come out ahead.

My pea brain isn't gettin it. If I owe 100,000 on my house right now, how is that going to change with hyperinflation? I'll still owe 100 grand. And if the value of my money is even less, then it will take MORE of it to pay off the loan with interest and all. I have a 4.5% 30 yr fixed.

[torchbearer]

My pea brain isn't gettin it. If I owe 100,000 on my house right now, how is that going to change with hyperinflation? I'll still owe 100 grand. And if the value of my money is even less, then it will take MORE of it to pay off the loan with interest and all. I have a 4.5% 30 yr fixed.

Because your income will increase too....just have to survive long enough for it to catch up with inflation.
If Burger King is chargin $25 for a burger meal.
And your fuel is $15/gallon
Your groceries are 100 times more expensive.
The companies will have to pay people more because people wouldn't be able to afford to work for them otherwise. So, wages will catch up proportionally.... just not always immediately.
that is where your savings kick in.
So- if you are making ,let's say, $2000 a month net in salary now.
After wage adjustments... you could be making $10,000 a month.
How easy would it be to pay off your home making that much money a month?
Even if the money is worthless... your debt is worthless too. in the same amount.
because your debt is in FRNs.

[robert4rp08]

Are you for real, or a weekend explorer?

I've never gone "roughing it" so probably the latter :D

[torchbearer]

the amount you owe doesn't adjust to inflation. it is set in contract.
so- you come out way ahead on the debt through hyper-inflation.

[torchbearer]

Likewise- if there was a hyper-deflation... you would be crushed by your debt.

[Deborah K]

Because your income will increase too....just have to survive long enough for it to catch up with inflation.
If Burger King is chargin $25 for a burger meal.
And your fuel is $15/gallon
Your groceries are 100 times more expensive.
The companies will have to pay people more because people wouldn't be able to afford to work for them otherwise. So, wages will catch up proportionally.... just not always immediately.
that is where your savings kick in.
So- if you are making ,let's say, $2000 a month net in salary now.
After wage adjustments... you could be making $10,000 a month.
How easy would it be to pay off your home making that much money a month?
Even if the money is worthless... your debt is worthless too. in the same amount.
because your debt is in FRNs.


Aaaahhhhh.....got it! Thanks!

[Sandra]

After Katrina we went without a lot of things for weeks. We found that dehydrated ingredients for cooking was better that canned goods. All you need in clean water, salt, and a BBQ pit.

[constituent]

get a shovel.

[Ozwest]

I've never gone "roughing it" so probably the latter :D

No worries.:D

[robert4rp08]

Because your income will increase too....just have to survive long enough for it to catch up with inflation.
If Burger King is chargin $25 for a burger meal.
And your fuel is $15/gallon
Your groceries are 100 times more expensive.
The companies will have to pay people more because people wouldn't be able to afford to work for them otherwise. So, wages will catch up proportionally.... just not always immediately.
that is where your savings kick in.
So- if you are making ,let's say, $2000 a month net in salary now.
After wage adjustments... you could be making $10,000 a month.
How easy would it be to pay off your home making that much money a month?
Even if the money is worthless... your debt is worthless too. in the same amount.
because your debt is in FRNs.

The bolded, red text is important. Wages do not instantaneously compensate for inflation. It takes time. During that time, people struggle to make ends meet on their pay checks and have to pillage their savings accounts. When wages finally catch up to the inflation rate, your savings is gone. You've been robbed.

[torchbearer]

The bolded, red text is important. Wages do not instantaneously compensate for inflation. It takes time. During that time, people struggle to make ends meet on their pay checks and have to pillage their savings accounts. When wages finally catch up to the inflation rate, your savings is gone. You've been robbed.

transfer of wealth. follow where the money goes... and at the end of the leash is your invisible master.
The guy behind the curtain who is controlling your dollar.

And that leads perfectly into this very detailed lesson on the reality of money: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2618811931680926682

this video/lecture will change your life.

[Ozwest]

transfer of wealth. follow where the money goes... and at the end of leash is your invisible master.
The guy behind the curtain who is controlling your dollar.

And that leads perfectly into this very detailed lesson on the reality of money: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2618811931680926682

this video/lecture will change your life.

As Bob Dillon says "You're gonna have to serve somebody."

But...

I hate paying taxes.

Especially to freeloaders.

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

A few practical things:
-Own your own house, don't rent
-Diversify your portfolio (commodities and Chinese businesses are looking good right now), and make sure you have some gold
-Save save save for your own retirement until it HURTS - Social Security and Medicare are going bye bye, and don't count on employer retirement-plans
-Start living much healthier to reduce medical costs in old age
-Postpone your retirement
-If all else fails, stay on friendly terms with your kids, as you may have to move in with them if things get really bad

[Ozwest]

A few practical things:
-Own your own house, don't rent
-Diversify your portfolio (commodities and Chinese businesses are looking good right now), and make sure you have some gold
-Save save save for your own retirement until it HURTS - Social Security and Medicare are going bye bye, and don't count on employer retirement-plans
-Start living much healthier to reduce medical costs in old age
-Postpone your retirement
-If all else fails, stay on friendly terms with your kids, as you may have to move in with them if things get really bad

Good advice.

Due to current circumstances, I would not invest in Superannuation, as your capital will dwindle with the stock market.

Stay liquid. Absolve debt.

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

Oh, and one other thing I forgot to mention in my previous post:

-Work your heart out to elect people to government who will DO SOMETHING about the economic crisis. (i.e. do something helpful)

[robert4rp08]

transfer of wealth. follow where the money goes... and at the end of the leash is your invisible master.
The guy behind the curtain who is controlling your dollar.

And that leads perfectly into this very detailed lesson on the reality of money: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2618811931680926682

this video/lecture will change your life.

Oh man... it's sad that I'm so excited over a 270 minute lecture about money by G. Edward Griffin. Why oh why did I have to take the red pill? I'd rather be watching highlights from great american dog....

[torchbearer]

Oh man... it's sad that I'm so excited over a 270 minute lecture about money by G. Edward Griffin. Why oh why did I have to take the red pill? I'd rather be watching highlights from great american dog....

only the hard core would want the education, and have the dedication to voluntarily sit through a 4 1/2 hour lecture.
It will be worth it.

[constituent]

A few practical things:
-Own your own house, don't rent


in case of economic crisis
-Abandon all pretense of ownership; if your
neighbors don't take it, the government and/or
banks soon will.
-Know how to find food and medicine on the go.
-If you have a gun or guns, no one needs to know
that but you.
-If you're from the city, stick to the city.
....-the bread lines crowd quickly so be up early

[tangent4ronpaul]

Pack stuff away like you're going camping/cabining: Water, soap, toothpaste, toilet paper, first aid kit, thermal blanket, sleeping bag, etc.

OZWEST replied: Are you for real, or a weekend explorer?

I have to agree. OK for shelter in place, but seriously?

"first aid kit" - think in terms of NO medical care available beyond what you can provide. Prevention, Prevention, Prevention! If you get into a firefight, you have already seriously fucked up - but you should be prepared to overwhelm the opposition with superior firepower. E&E is a much better plan!

"Water" - think water filter, and then filter life expectancy becomes the critical item... boil, iodine, etc. If you loose your safe water source, the environment can take you out.

"Soap" - know how to make it? - Know how to make the ingredients? Basic sanitation and hygiene is important!

"Toothpaste" - know how to make it and alternatives for brushes? Have any dental knowledge and skills?

"TP" - know alternatives? NOT poison ivy/oak!

"Thermal blanket" - get the milspec kind, not the one use camping emergency kind.

"Sleeping bags" - they compress/wear out but best suggestion on your list!

Lets talk reality here... No resupply, No rescue!

Waterproof Matches - use only as a last resort - finite and expendable
Flint and Steel - CRITICAL! - though newer bow and drill concepts are very good!
Sewing items - needles critical, thread can be improvised. In the right temperate/environmental zone needles can be improvised from yucca(sp?) as can thread. (also antibiotic). but useless for navigation and painful for sutures.
Knife, pocket and sheath - #1 item as to your survival. Don't forget a sharpening stone.
Compass (luxury item - improvise compass from magnetizing a needle)
Fish line
Fishhooks - can be improvised, if you know how - ditto previous item, but...
Sinkers - Improvise, but on hand nicer...
safety pins
AL Foil - limited re-use, but invaluable...
Plastic bags/sheet - very useful! - limited reuse... ditto mylar.
Rubber strips and leather - sling shots.
Arrow heads and bow string - compact and cheap now - pain to make from scratch!
Maps
Light weight rope and string (expendable supply)
Wire for traps
10 Mil plastic (shelter / water purification and collection)
Magnifying glass - fire / reading condensed information
Whistle - signaling also mirror
Food and durable clothing - expendable.
Needle nose pliers / multi-tool

OK - so that's a short list... but if you want the basics of LT survival, that will get you a LONG way! (in a SMALL footprint). There is more, along "survival luxury items. but maybe save that for another post - like saw blades, etc...

OK - lets talk LT shelter in place...

A gentleman who wrote "Timeley & Profitable Help For Troubled Americans" based on his personal experience living under German and later Russian occupation during WWII placed these 5 items as highest on his list of essentials for survival:
sugar: to can with
honey: ditto
coffee: keep hungry ppl awake
Garden seeds (start your own food supply - use heirloom seeds, the stuff from current stores will not produce viable seeds). It's called control via starvation.
Garden tools

I would add:
Lye - making soap
Salt - food preservation
Water Glass - preserving eggs
Slaked Lime - sanitation / dead bodies...
etc.

there is so much more here...

hope it helps...

-n

[tangent4ronpaul]

blimp

[liberteebell]

Oh man... it's sad that I'm so excited over a 270 minute lecture about money by G. Edward Griffin. Why oh why did I have to take the red pill? I'd rather be watching highlights from great american dog....

:) Roger that.

Ran into an old friend yesterday, one who I had no earthy idea was so involved/informed on what's going on. He told me that he had recently traveled to California and spoken with a friend of his who is a police officer. The officer/friend told my friend that they were training for martial law because, "once it starts, it will be chaos".

Just made my day, I tell ya! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I guess it's better to be informed and prepared but all this is almost overwhelming. I am especially worried about my children.

[SLSteven]

If you owe $100,000 on your house, hyper-inflation occurs, you have hundred dollars bills like you have one dollar bills today. That $100,000 is like $10,000.
It is denominated in dollars. So hyper-inflation allows for people to pay off past loans cheaply.


Provided that you have a fixed interest rate!