$650,000 Left in Ron's Presidential Campaign

[FECwatcher]

Blogger Andrew Malcolm and his associate at the LA Times have analyzed the most recent FEC reports on the presidential and congressional campaign finances:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/022083.html

[yongrel]

Huh? How has he spent $4.4 million after his has campaign ended, yet the CFL still hasn't done anything?

[torchbearer]

Huh? How has he spent $4.4 million after his has campaign ended, yet the CFL still hasn't done anything?

3.5mil went to his congressional campaign. 10,000 went to his pac.

[yongrel]

3.5mil went to his congressional campaign. 10,000 went to his pac.

Ah, Ok. That makes sense. Groovy.

[CasualApathy]

Huh? How has he spent $4.4 million after his has campaign ended, yet the CFL still hasn't done anything?

Well, in a recent interview he stated that the rally in St Paul would have a media strategy unlike anything we have seen so far. Maybe the money has been spent getting good commercial slots way ahead of time.

I will now see if i can find the interview and post it here, if anyone knows the one im thinking of please post.

[CasualApathy]

3.5mil went to his congressional campaign. 10,000 went to his pac.

Didn't we all donate to his congressional campaign separately?

I was really hoping for a media-blitz. Especially since RP was talking about it (Well, he just said "Media strategy", i guess that can mean many things)

[torchbearer]

Didn't we all donate to his congressional campaign separately?

I was really hoping for a media-blitz. Especially since RP was talking about it (Well, he just said "Media strategy", i guess that can mean many things)

It may have to do more with regulations than strategy.
10,000 may be the limit you can donate from a campaign to a pac. (not sure)
whereas, you can donate unlimited from one campaign to the another.
And to end a campaign account without going to either of those two sources, you'd have to donate it to a charity or something like that.
Ask McCain,he sponsored, but doesn't follow, these stupid laws.

[kirkblitz]

cool glad to know i donated so he could fund his congressional campaign for the next 10 years :rolleyes:

[Kludge]

o.O 3.5 million im his congressional campaign?

Damn... Was he really that frightful of Peden or was he trying to stimulate the local economy?

[mport1]

Wow, this really sucks if its true. Probably McCain Feingold...

[RonPaulFanInGA]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/07/ron-paul-bob-ba.html


Paul, who ran as a determined small-government, antiwar Republican and came up something around 1,000 delegates short of the nomination, reported ending July with only 649,625.70 in the bank. Last we heard he had several million left over from his unsuccessful presidential run.

But Paul has since transferred $10,000 to his nonprofit organization and a hefty $3.5 million of that money into his congressional campaign, which might seem unnecessary to some because he has no Democratic (or Libertarian) opponent in the November general election for his 11th House term.

I'm very certain this is just a "back off" thing and nothing more. Yes, we donated 1,050,000 to Paul's congressional campaign. Yes he spent most of it. And yes, he beat Peden and has no opponents in November. The thing is though, this money doesn't have to be spent now, it can be spent on any future campaigns.

So with Peden already talking about running again in 2010, I think Paul wanted to do something to stop him and anyone else thinking about it dead in their tracks. No one sane is going to waste money on a filing fee to take on a popular incumbent like Paul....with over 3.5 million to defend his House seat. It'd be a huge waste of time and money for any republican, democrat or libertarian. Just ask Chris Peden, he spent 150,000 dollars of his own money trying to beat Paul in the March 4, 2008 TX-14 republican primary...and he lost by over forty percentage points.

Also, if Paul ever feels frisky, he can use that massive amount of campaign cash for a U.S. Senate or Governor's run in Texas.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

o.O 3.5 million im his congressional campaign?

Damn... Was he really that frightful of Peden or was he trying to stimulate the local economy?

Paul transfered the money AFTER he beat Peden. It's still there for him. He can transfer some of it back in the future if he wants.

[torchbearer]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/07/ron-paul-bob-ba.html



I'm very certain this is just a "back off" thing and nothing more. Yes, we donated 1,050,000 to Paul's congressional campaign. Yes he spent most of it. And yes, he beat Peden and has no opponents in November. The thing is though, this money doesn't have to be spent now, it can be spent on any future campaigns.

So with Peden already talking about running again in 2010, I think Paul wanted to do something to stop him and anyone else thinking about it dead in their tracks. No one sane is going to waste money on a filing fee to take on a popular incumbent like Paul....with over 3.5 million to defend his House seat. It'd be a huge waste of time and money for any republican, democrat or libertarian. Just ask Chris Peden, he spent 150,000 dollars of his own money trying to beat Paul in the March 4, 2008 TX-14 republican primary...and he lost by over forty percentage points.

Also, if Paul ever feels frisky, he can use that massive amount of campaign cash for a U.S. Senate or Governor's run in Texas.

It could even be used for Ron Paul senate campaign, or can be used for a future presidential bid.

[DFF]

Huh. This doesn't sound right. Paul himself specifically said funds for his Presidential campaign could not be used for his Congressional campaign.

[SaratogaForRonPaul]

Well, he needs to convert it to gold or silver then to hold its value, because that fiat money is not going to buy a 30 second ad during a 3:00 AM Gilligan's Island rerun in 2012 at the rate the dollar is dropping.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Huh. This doesn't sound right. Paul himself specifically said funds for his Presidential campaign could not be used for his Congressional campaign.

That was true when he was running against Peden because Paul was still running for president at that time. You cannot transfer funds from a presidential campaign account to a congressional one unless you end the presidential campaign. Paul ended his presidential campaign in June, so now he can transfer any or all of that money to his congressional campaign account.

[powerofreason]

Well, he needs to convert it to gold or silver then to hold its value, because that fiat money is not going to buy a 30 second ad during a 3:00 AM Gilligan's Island rerun in 2012 at the rate the dollar is dropping.

I lol'ed.

[New York For Paul]

Well, we all know Ron Paul is going to be extra frugal with the money.

Three million will be good to have for a future political run.

Of course that means, the Campaign for Liberty is going to have work closely with the grassroots, so they can earn the grassroots monetary support.

The Campaign For Liberty will have to make each project count, justify every salary and work with the grassroots, unlike they way they worked with the grassroots during the Presidential campaign.

[robert4rp08]

That blows. He needs to be spending that money to get people to Minnesota!!!!

[BKom]

Once again, I am disappointed. We were expressly told right from the start that this money would all be used on the presidential campaign. I have no problem with Ron suspending the campaign, but a lot of people gave him money they could not afford to give. Those people should be offered a pro-rated refund. We were all told that the money would NOT be used for a congressional race. It's true that transferring the money to the congressional campaign fund is not necessarily using it for a congressional race. But that is splitting hairs.

I consider this a broken trust. Everyone here is willing to forgive Ron a lot. The awful national campaign that cut the state and local campaigns off at the knees. The video that destroyed our chances at conventions all over the country. So many missed opportunities.

We all support Ron and believe he's right on the issues. But this has nothing to do with issues. It has to do with personal integrity and responsibility.

Brian Kominsky

[constituent]

Damn... Was he really that frightful of Peden or was he trying to stimulate the local economy?

i don't know, but if it's stimulating the local economy i need to move back to victoria.

[Kalifornia]

okay, now Im pissed. I donated alot of money that I could have used in other places for a PRESIDENTIAL campaign, not a congressional campaign. He should have spent that money nationally....

Thanks Ron. That will be the last penny you ever get from me.

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

okay, now Im pissed. I donated alot of money that I could have used in other places for a PRESIDENTIAL campaign, not a congressional campaign. He should have spent that money nationally....


I would just as well see funds go to the Campaign for Liberty.

[ItsTime]

okay, now Im pissed. I donated alot of money that I could have used in other places for a PRESIDENTIAL campaign, not a congressional campaign. He should have spent that money nationally....

Thanks Ron. That will be the last penny you ever get from me.

maybe you should read up on the financial laws and come back when you are educated.

[Kalifornia]

maybe you should read up on the financial laws and come back when you are educated.

[Personal insult redacted] There is no law that says that Ron couldnt have spent that money on his campaign before he ended it.

[ItsTime]

[Redacted by Moderator] There is no law that says that Ron couldnt have spent that money on his campaign before he ended it.

Thank god he saved what he did. Or he could be like Sabrin and begging for money because he went in debt.

[Kalifornia]

I would just as well see funds go to the Campaign for Liberty.

That would be fine as well, if it were allowed. My complaint is that I intended that cash to be spent on his presidential campaign, not his congressional campaign. If I wanted to donate to his congressional campaign, I WOULD HAVE DONATED TO HIS CONGRESSIONAL CAMPAIGN.

[Kalifornia]

It is not like Ron Paul to waste money. Thank god he saved what he did. Or he could be like Sabrin and begging for money because he went in debt.

He DID waste my money. I gave him the money to be spent on waking up the nation. Instead he is squirreling it away to spend in Texas. Fuck that. Never again.

[constituent]

He DID waste my money. I gave him the money to be spent on waking up the nation. Instead he is squirreling it away to spend in Texas. Fuck that. Never again.

ok, gotcha. have a nice life.

[mport1]

He DID waste my money. I gave him the money to be spent on waking up the nation. Instead he is squirreling it away to spend in Texas. Fuck that. Never again.

Is Texas not part of the nation?

[Kalifornia]

Is Texas not part of the nation?

Not a part that does me any good.

[RideTheDirt]

Not a part that does me any good.
I'm sure you have done more than Ron, right? If you can do more for out cause than he has you are welcome to do so. Until you figure out a way to wake up the majority of Americans (which 3.5 million IS NOT going to... $1 per American?), but until then I will listen to Paul, who, by the way, is in fact human.

[devil21]

Jeez some people always gotta complain about something. The presidential campaign is over. The left over money can't sit there in a presidential account forever but there are laws about what can be done with the money. I think it was just transferred out to leave enough to cover St. Paul expenses and expenses leading up to it. The rest got moved to the congressional account. That doesnt mean it will be used for a congressional campaign but its gotta go somewhere. I was irked by the surplus too, but no use crying over spilt milk anymore. It's not like RP is going on a wild Vegas trip on our dimes.

[libertarian4321]

Once again, I am disappointed. We were expressly told right from the start that this money would all be used on the presidential campaign. I have no problem with Ron suspending the campaign, but a lot of people gave him money they could not afford to give. Those people should be offered a pro-rated refund.



Okay, kids, I'll explain this again (for about the 30th time on RPF).

THERE WILL BE NO REFUNDS!

Can you tell me the name of ANY candidate who has ever returned campaign funds?

No, you can't.

You want to know why? Because it would be a logistical nightmare.

Pro-rated refund, lol- yeah, they're going to wade through hundreds of thousands of donations collected over the past 15 months, calculate that you deserve 6.7% of you $15 donation back, then mail it to you? Or refund your credit card?

ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING? You people need to think before you start blowing steam.

As a former candidate, I won't even get into the paperwork nightmare this would create with the FEC...

Look, when you donate money to a political campaign, you don't get to attach strings, and you don't get "pro-rated refunds".

Grow up, people, and quit whining.

I have no idea what the money will be used for, and at this point, neither do any of you.

If Ron decides to spend it on hookers, liquor, and crack, then you have a reason to bitch and whine- until then, you are just engaging in foolish speculation.

[PlzPeopleWakeUp]

nt

[mport1]

Okay, kids, I'll explain this again (for about the 30th time on RPF).

THERE WILL BE NO REFUNDS!

Can you tell me the name of ANY candidate who has ever returned campaign funds?

No, you can't.

You want to know why? Because it would be a logistical nightmare.

Pro-rated refund, lol- yeah, they're going to wade through hundreds of thousands of donations collected over the past 15 months, calculate that you deserve 6.7% of you $15 donation back, then mail it to you? Or refund your credit card?

ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING? You people need to think before you start blowing steam.

As a former candidate, I won't even get into the paperwork nightmare this would create with the FEC...

Look, when you donate money to a political campaign, you don't get to attach strings, and you don't get "pro-rated refunds".

Grow up, people, and quit whining.

I have no idea what the money will be used for, and at this point, neither do any of you.

If Ron decides to spend it on hookers, liquor, and crack, then you have a reason to bitch and whine- until then, you are just engaging in foolish speculation.

+1

[Cinderella]

He DID waste my money. I gave him the money to be spent on waking up the nation. Instead he is squirreling it away to spend in Texas. Fuck that. Never again.

TROLL!!!!:cool:

[Sally08]

Okay, kids, I'll explain this again (for about the 30th time on RPF).

THERE WILL BE NO REFUNDS!

-snip-

Look, when you donate money to a political campaign, you don't get to attach strings, and you don't get "pro-rated refunds".

Grow up, people, and quit whining.

I have no idea what the money will be used for, and at this point, neither do any of you.

If Ron decides to spend it on hookers, liquor, and crack, then you have a reason to bitch and whine- until then, you are just engaging in foolish speculation.

And you don't see a possible relationship between the failure to use funds donated as specified for a Presidential campaign and the low participation in recent money bombs since the campaign was ended?

Apparently, there are quite a few "grown up people" who aren't whining on forums, but who simply learned their lessons and won't make the same mistake again.

The "golden goose" has been killed-

[Kalifornia]

I'm sure you have done more than Ron, right? If you can do more for out cause than he has you are welcome to do so. Until you figure out a way to wake up the majority of Americans (which 3.5 million IS NOT going to... $1 per American?), but until then I will listen to Paul, who, by the way, is in fact human.

what does any of that got to do with the fact that he has essentially broken a promise to hundreds of thousands of people who sent him money to run for president? for him to put that cash into his congressional campaign coffers and not have spent it is just wrong.

[Kalifornia]

Okay, kids, I'll explain this again (for about the 30th time on RPF).

THERE WILL BE NO REFUNDS!

Can you tell me the name of ANY candidate who has ever returned campaign funds?

No, you can't.

You want to know why? Because it would be a logistical nightmare.

Pro-rated refund, lol- yeah, they're going to wade through hundreds of thousands of donations collected over the past 15 months, calculate that you deserve 6.7% of you $15 donation back, then mail it to you? Or refund your credit card?

ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING? You people need to think before you start blowing steam.

As a former candidate, I won't even get into the paperwork nightmare this would create with the FEC...

Look, when you donate money to a political campaign, you don't get to attach strings, and you don't get "pro-rated refunds".

Grow up, people, and quit whining.

I have no idea what the money will be used for, and at this point, neither do any of you.

If Ron decides to spend it on hookers, liquor, and crack, then you have a reason to bitch and whine- until then, you are just engaging in foolish speculation.

I don't expect a refund0 I expected him to spend it on the reason I gave it him. He could have easily spent it on a huge rally for the campaign or more advertising. to set it aside for his congressional campaign is self serving.

[constituent]

1) You should be out spamming as many comment sections on popular websites about the CFL and RFTP.

2) If not you, then who? The future of the republic is in your hands.

1) Counterproductive. Precisely what is it that the CFL is offering visitors to their website that would encourage them to return, or excite them to get involved in... anything?

The site at present = another self-congratulatory libertarian circle jerk ('cuz there just aren't enough of those out there already :rolleyes:).

2) I agree. Only I wish that those running the show took that responsibility as seriously as the GR does.

imo, if you want to help restore the republic.... well, one-hundred lone wolves are far more dangerous to TPTB than even a million blind sheep.

hit the message boards, hit all the forums. But don't bother spamming for some poorly-designed, poorly-implemented place. Rather, spread the ideas of liberty and expose the lies your damn self.

want the answer to the problems we face? quit following.

resist the temptation to subjegate yourself to the collective.

leaders = fail.

[Kalifornia]

Wow. Some people's kids....

People we need positivity, not negativity.

If you think Ron Paul and his partners are crooks, then you got robbed. Deal with it. Go bitch somewhere else.

If you don't think Ron Paul and his partners are thieves, like I think, then exhibit some faith and positivity. And get to work.

You are accomplishing NOTHING being here on these forums. You should be out spamming as many comment sections on popular websites about the CFL and RFTP. You should be handing out literature, knocking on doors, and talking with people trying to get them to wake up and fight for their last bits of freedom they have.

If not you, then who? The future of the republic is in your hands.

you can piss right off. Just like anything else in this life, if I don't get the benefit of a bargain, I have a right to complain about it.
the truth is the man broke a promise to his supporters. it is a big deal, and the fact that you want to be a cheerleader doesn't change that.

[Bruno]

okay, now Im pissed. I donated alot of money that I could have used in other places for a PRESIDENTIAL campaign, not a congressional campaign. He should have spent that money nationally....

Thanks Ron. That will be the last penny you ever get from me.

Look at it this way.

$35 million was raised
$3.5 was transferred to the congressional campaign. That's only 10% of the total. 90% was spent on the presidential campain.

If you're not cool with your donation going to the congressional campaign, then just consider that your personal donation was part of that 90% that was spent. Your $$ didn't go to the congressional campaign funds. I'm sure there are plenty of folks who wouldn't mind that theirs did.

;):)

[Kalifornia]

TROLL!!!!:cool:

was I a troll when I dumped a rather large sum of cash in a campaign based on the promise that it would be spent on that campaign?

[dealerjim]

As far as I'm concerned, Dr. Paul is still just as committed to waking up the nation as he was when I donated money to his presidential campaign. I don't feel for one second that the money was wasted. Even though his presidential bid is over, he won't stop speaking truth to power and doing his best to open eyes all over this country. I also donated to his congressional campaign just to assure he could stay in Washington doing what he does.

[mport1]

was I a troll when I dumped a rather large sum of cash in a campaign based on the promise that it would be spent on that campaign?

Yeah, I hate how everybody that says something against the campaign is deemed a troll.

[Kalifornia]

Look at it this way.

$35 million was raised
$3.5 was transferred to the congressional campaign. That's only 10% of the total. 90% was spent on the presidential campain.

If you're not cool with your donation going to the congressional campaign, then just consider that your personal donation was part of that 90% that was spent. Your $$ didn't go to the congressional campaign funds. I'm sure there are plenty of folks who wouldn't mind that theirs did.

;):)

I could look at it that way if I wanted to delude myself. Since I don't, I won't.

I really don't know what you damn cheerleaders have to lose by simply admitting that moving that money to the congressional campaign was a shitty thing to do. Im still down for the fight, but the doctor has lost my personal respect over this, as well as any future financial support.

Its tru that im just one guy, and my thousands won't make or break afuture campaign, but I guarantee Im not the only one who feels that way either.

call us whiners if u want, just don't call us next time ron needs some cash. I won't be picking up the phone.

[Cinderella]

was I a troll when I dumped a rather large sum of cash in a campaign based on the promise that it would be spent on that campaign?


yes:cool:

[Kalifornia]

yes:cool:

okie dokie then.

[Sally08]

The transfer of the donations to be used for a totally different purpose than specified, similar to issues with many of the major grass roots projects, is the second promise that was broken.

The first promise broken was ending the campaign before the RNC-

Question: Was the actual intent of the Presidential campaign simply to set the groundwork for the CFL?

If so, isn't it ironic that the highly successful GR fund-raising may have disrupted those plans? And could have risked RP's Congressional seat?

Bigger question: What do you think RP will do, if the delegate "coup" or "revolt" actually gets RP the GOP nomination?

[PlzPeopleWakeUp]

nt

[Cinderella]

The transfer of the donations to be used for a totally different purpose than specified, similar to issues with many of the major grass roots projects, is the second promise that was broken.

The first promise broken was ending the campaign before the RNC-

Question: Was the actual intent of the Presidential campaign simply to set the groundwork for the CFL?

If so, isn't it ironic that the highly successful GR fund-raising may have disrupted those plans? And could have risked RP's Congressional seat?

Bigger question: What do you think RP will do, if the delegate "coup" or "revolt" actually gets RP the GOP nomination?


ron paul will not get the nom....mccain would have to die and even then romney will be right there to pick up the pieces

[torchbearer]

....let me ask you this...

Did you ever think that Ron Paul truly had a chance to become president?


I never did. You think the corruption would allow it?

I maxed out, I spent probably 1000+ hours on campaigning.
And I continue.
I'm not pissed. Everything is going as I thought it would.
It continues. It grows.

I guess you don't get it?

+1.

This has been the biggest libertarian push in politics since the time of goldwater and reagan... and this time, i really think the guy is sincere.
That is what he is talking about when he mentions the remnant.
The money wasn't for Ron Paul to become president... that money was to use Ron Paul to get our voices heard. And it was heard more so than ever.... and we have more of you new guys around to show for it.

[Cinderella]

+1.

This has been the biggest libertarian push in politics since the time of goldwater and reagan... And this time, i really think the guy is sincere.
That is what he is talking about when he mentions the remnant.
The money wasn't for ron paul to become president... That money was to use ron paul to get our voices heard. And it was heard more so than ever.... And we have more of you new guys around to show for it.


+1776

[Kalifornia]

The transfer of the donations to be used for a totally different purpose than specified, similar to issues with many of the major grass roots projects, is the second promise that was broken.

The first promise broken was ending the campaign before the RNC-

Question: Was the actual intent of the Presidential campaign simply to set the groundwork for the CFL?

If so, isn't it ironic that the highly successful GR fund-raising may have disrupted those plans? And could have risked RP's Congressional seat?

Bigger question: What do you think RP will do, if the delegate "coup" or "revolt" actually gets RP the GOP nomination?

I agree that there have been multiple promises broken. I didn't squawk about the unspent 5 mil before because he either hadn't ended the offocial campaign, or when he did, the official explanation was that the remaining cash was goint to the cfl, because it allowed for more flexibility. Now we know that was bullshit. Ron is making at least some of decisions now based on what is good for ron.

I don't think that this was the plan all along, I just think someone convinced him that his congressional seat is more important than the big picture. that is bitterly disappointing. I mean, in understood when he asked for money for the congressional campaign, and when he suspended campaigning nationally to secure his seat. but taking money from the pres campaign and building a congressional war chest with it is immoral, dishonest, and downright stupid.

[Kalifornia]

....let me ask you this...

Did you ever think that Ron Paul truly had a chance to become president?


I never did. You think the corruption would allow it?

I maxed out, I spent probably 1000+ hours on campaigning.
And I continue.
I'm not pissed. Everything is going as I thought it would.
It continues. It grows.

I guess you don't get it?

there was a point where there was a greater than zero chance that Ron would have secured the Republican nomination. That was the point where I dumped cash into the campaign.

The campaign screwed up. Ron hired a bunch of townies instead of professionals. but Im not so pissed about that as I am that I took ron at his word that he would fight for this campsign all the way to the end. I donated because I believed he was serious. ... He wasn't serious enough to spend the last 5 mil though, was he? we gave him the money to SPEND, not save for some future assault on his house seat.

[Sally08]

ron paul will not get the nom....mccain would have to die and even then romney will be right there to pick up the pieces

I agree, but there appear to be many people on both RPFs and DP who still think they can get RP the nomination at the RNC.

In fact, isn't that the primary purpose of the DVDs for Delegates project, even though "Fact" 2 is highly dependent upon each state's rules?

http://www.dvds4delegates.com/

Fact 2: There is no law requiring Delegates to vote for the candidate they are “bound” to.

These Delegates are Morally Bound, not to a particular candidate, but to Represent the People who supported that candidate. If they are presented with pertinent information that was previously hidden from them—they are Morally Bound to adapt to that information and make the best choice they can for their constituents.

[Sally08]

The money wasn't for Ron Paul to become president... that money was to use Ron Paul to get our voices heard.

So, you agree that Ron Paul simply used his campaign and our donations to have a bigger "soap box"?

Silly me. I thought I was donating to someone who actually wanted to become President. First and last time I donate-

(I was flabbergasted to see that full names and full addresses of those who donated more than $200 are publicly displayed in the online FEC files - talk about risk of identity theft, harassment, a robbed home, or being added to a government "watch list"!)

I'll bet all the volunteers walking the streets across the country actually thought RP wanted to be President, as well.

It was RP's voice that was heard (barely), not "our voices", particularly given the low number of CFL subscriptions and the turnout at the two July GR events.

And RP's announcements *before July 12th* of ending his campaign and scheduling his *own* "dual convention" harmed those two events, as well.

Yet, RP had specifically asked for the DC March.

Effectively, didn't RP use the grass roots and donations for a "personal project", just as BTM, GW, and RB have done (and have been viciously attacked for having done)?

[mport1]

(I was flabbergasted to see that full names and full addresses of those who donated more than $200 are publicly displayed in the online FEC files - talk about risk of identity theft, harassment, a robbed home, or being added to a government "watch list"!)

Thats the law.

[libertarian4321]

And you don't see a possible relationship between the failure to use funds donated as specified for a Presidential campaign and the low participation in recent money bombs since the campaign was ended?

Apparently, there are quite a few "grown up people" who aren't whining on forums, but who simply learned their lessons and won't make the same mistake again.

The "golden goose" has been killed-

You can bitch and moan about the way the campaign was run if you want. Right from the start, Ron said he was NOT going to run the campaign like others did- spending money before he had it. That sort of fiscal responsibility, which so many of us admire, may have hurt the campaign in the long run- it is certainly one of the reasons that there is a large amount of money left over. Most of the money raised in the first quarter of this year could not be effectively deployed until after the race was effectively decided.

Once McCain was declared the presumptive nominee (late February as I recall), the campaign had three choices- 1) they could spend every penny in a Quixotic attempt to gain a few more delegates, though it would have made no difference in choosing the nominee 2) they could use the money in some other form to promote the cause (e.g. the CFL), or 3) Ron could have kept the money and spent it on booze and strippers (and yes, this would have been legal).

They decided to go with the 2nd option. That was the best choice in my opinion, others may disagree.

I know there are those who think he should have spent every penny on the campaign, right up to the bitter end- putting up an utterly pointless and futile fight, sort of like Hitler refusing to surrender even when the Russians were entering Berlin.

But we know that above all, Ron Paul is practical. He could have blown through the money and maybe got a couple of extra percentage points and an extra delegate or two in the late primaries- but it would have made NO DIFFERENCE as far as the nomination is concerned. Essentially, he would have been spending the money just to spend the money (which, I gather, is what some of you wanted to see).

By using the money for the CFL (or similar), the money can be deployed to advance the cause long into the future. It might not make some of you feel good right now, but its a far more practical and effective long term strategy than blowing the money on a lost campaign.

If you feel you've been "wronged", you are free to curl up into a fetal position and have a good cry, but I'm not sure that is going to help the country in the long run.

Hopefully when you are done feeling sorry for yourself, you'll get back up and continue to fight for what's best for our country...

Okay, that may have been a bit harsh, but I'm not really the nurturing type. If you want a tissue or a shoulder to cry on, I'm sure someone on these boards will provide it. Nurturing types, help me out here...

[mport1]

You can bitch and moan about the way the campaign was run if you want. Right from the start, Ron said he was NOT going to run the campaign like others did- spending money before he had it. That sort of fiscal responsibility, which so many of us admire, may have hurt the campaign in the long run- it is certainly one of the reasons that there is a large amount of money left over. Most of the money raised in the first quarter of this year could not be effectively deployed until after the race was effectively decided.

Once McCain was declared the presumptive nominee (late February as I recall), the campaign had three choices- 1) they could spend every penny in a Quixotic attempt to gain a few more delegates, though it would have made no difference in choosing the nominee 2) they could use the money in some other form to promote the cause (e.g. the CFL), or 3) Ron could have kept the money and spent it on booze and strippers (and yes, this would have been legal).

They decided to go with the 2nd option. That was the best choice in my opinion, others may disagree.

I know there are those who think he should have spent every penny on the campaign, right up to the bitter end- putting up an utterly pointless and futile fight, sort of like Hitler refusing to surrender even when the Russians were entering Berlin.

But we know that above all, Ron Paul is practical. He could have blown through the money and maybe got a couple of extra percentage points and an extra delegate or two in the late primaries- but it would have made NO DIFFERENCE as far as the nomination is concerned. Essentially, he would have been spending the money just to spend the money (which, I gather, is what some of you wanted to see).

By using the money for the CFL (or similar), the money can be deployed to advance the cause long into the future. It might not make some of you feel good right now, but its a far more practical and effective long term strategy than blowing the money on a lost campaign.

If you feel you've been "wronged", you are free to curl up into a fetal position and have a good cry, but I'm not sure that is going to help the country in the long run.

Hopefully when you are done feeling sorry for yourself, you'll get back up and continue to fight for what's best for our country...

Okay, that may have been a bit harsh, but I'm not really the nurturing type. If you want a tissue or a shoulder to cry on, I'm sure someone on these boards will provide it. Nurturing types, help me out here...

Agreed.

[Sally08]

Thats the law.

It may be the law.

However, that also means that I will never donate to any campaign again.

The first thing we tell our children is NEVER GIVE OUT YOUR NAME OR YOUR CITY OR ANY OTHER PERSONAL INFORMATION.

And then, what do we "adults" do? Give out our exact street addresses!

Pick a name, any name, from the FEC donors lists and look it up on www.pipl.com (try your own name).

For many of the results listings, the *exact* birthday shows up.

How many times are you asked for your date of birth to prove who you are with various customer service departments?

So, yes, this campaign season has been a "learning experience":(

[Kalifornia]

You can bitch and moan about the way the campaign was run if you want. Right from the start, Ron said he was NOT going to run the campaign like others did- spending money before he had it. That sort of fiscal responsibility, which so many of us admire, may have hurt the campaign in the long run- it is certainly one of the reasons that there is a large amount of money left over. Most of the money raised in the first quarter of this year could not be effectively deployed until after the race was effectively decided.

Once McCain was declared the presumptive nominee (late February as I recall), the campaign had three choices- 1) they could spend every penny in a Quixotic attempt to gain a few more delegates, though it would have made no difference in choosing the nominee 2) they could use the money in some other form to promote the cause (e.g. the CFL), or 3) Ron could have kept the money and spent it on booze and strippers (and yes, this would have been legal).

They decided to go with the 2nd option. That was the best choice in my opinion, others may disagree.

I know there are those who think he should have spent every penny on the campaign, right up to the bitter end- putting up an utterly pointless and futile fight, sort of like Hitler refusing to surrender even when the Russians were entering Berlin.

But we know that above all, Ron Paul is practical. He could have blown through the money and maybe got a couple of extra percentage points and an extra delegate or two in the late primaries- but it would have made NO DIFFERENCE as far as the nomination is concerned. Essentially, he would have been spending the money just to spend the money (which, I gather, is what some of you wanted to see).

By using the money for the CFL (or similar), the money can be deployed to advance the cause long into the future. It might not make some of you feel good right now, but its a far more practical and effective long term strategy than blowing the money on a lost campaign.

If you feel you've been "wronged", you are free to curl up into a fetal position and have a good cry, but I'm not sure that is going to help the country in the long run.

Hopefully when you are done feeling sorry for yourself, you'll get back up and continue to fight for what's best for our country...

Okay, that may have been a bit harsh, but I'm not really the nurturing type. If you want a tissue or a shoulder to cry on, I'm sure someone on these boards will provide it. Nurturing types, help me out here...

1. [Redacted by Moderator] Nobody here is crying or feeling sorry for themselves. We are simply calling attention to what amounts to a shitty thing to do.

2. The money isnt being spent on the CFL. That is a huge part of the problem. The lions share of the remainder is going to Rons Congressional campaign coffers. Yeah, I think he should have spent it on the campaign, but I think the CFL was a viable strategic alternative. IT ISNT GOING THERE.

3. Id actually feel better if he spent it on hookers and crack than for my hard earned money to be spent enriching texas printers and radio stations in the off distant future.

4. You can call us names all day long, but here is the simple truth. Ron fucked us, which means we will never donate to another campaign, which means Ron also fucked you. Try going back to going it alone, condescending debatatarian douche. Yep, those 1% nationwide numbers are stunning.

[Sally08]

You can bitch and moan about the way the campaign was run if you want. Right from the start, Ron said he was NOT going to run the campaign like others did- spending money before he had it.

Isn't a major issue the fact that RP did not spend the money wisely *after* he had it, to the tune of $4+ million unused?


Most of the money raised in the first quarter of this year could not be effectively deployed until after the race was effectively decided.

And if RP's intent was to *spread the message* vs. *get the nomination*, then why weren't the donations used to continue to spread the message vs. sitting in a bank devaluing by the day?


Once McCain was declared the presumptive nominee (late February as I recall), the campaign had three choices- 1) they could spend every penny in a Quixotic attempt to gain a few more delegates, though it would have made no difference in choosing the nominee 2) they could use the money in some other form to promote the cause (e.g. the CFL), or 3) Ron could have kept the money and spent it on booze and strippers (and yes, this would have been legal).

They decided to go with the 2nd option. That was the best choice in my opinion, others may disagree.

Apparently, you failed to read the OP. The vast majority of the remaining funds have been transferred to the Congressional campaign, NOT to CFL.

And your option 1) was not the intended use of donations. They should have been used for an ongoing *marketing* campaign, particularly if RP had honored his promise to stay in the race until the RNC.

If the whole point of RP's actions has been to get his message out, then why weren't the funds used to do exactly that *before* a state's primaries and *before* a state's convention to specify the state GOP platform planks and *before* the national delegates were elected?

[Sally08]

2. The money isnt being spent on the CFL. That is a huge part of the problem. The lions share of the remainder is going to Rons Congressional campaign coffers. Yeah, I think he should have spent it on the campaign, but I think the CFL was a viable strategic alternative. IT ISNT GOING THERE.

Actually, I had more of a problem if the millions in unused funds had gone to the CFL with the same apparent lack of management experience as has been so clearly demonstrated by HQ.

I have never donated to a foundation-type organization, since I worked at one charity where 96% of the donations were simply used as working capital for the charity!

[newyearsrevolution08]

Maybe the cfl isn't all it is cracked up to me and ron saw that. I don't care for plenty of the cfl crew anyways and maybe ron got wise to it as well. Maybe he is done fighting and wants us to continue it OR maybe he had a secret plan the entire time to pretend to run for president just so he could stuff his congressional coffers.. Who really knows BUT either way, he woke up ALOT of people here in America and I think that is priceless, I just wish he would have used that 4 million to CONTINUE waking up even more people.

[Kalifornia]

Actually, I had more of a problem if the millions in unused funds had gone to the CFL with the same apparent lack of management experience as has been so clearly demonstrated by HQ.

I have never donated to a foundation-type organization, since I worked at one charity where 96% of the donations were simply used as working capital for the charity!

I agree that the election campaign was poorly run, but this is more a function of Ron hiring amateurs, imho. And yeah, the CFL is likely to be just as ineffective, but at least it is remotely similar to the original reason I gave the cash. The Congressional campaign might as well be another planet as texas.

Plus, I remember hearing somewhere that at some point unused congressional campaign coffers get to be converted to the private property of the congressmen after so many years of nonuse. Someone PLEASE correct me if I am remembering that incorrectly.

[Soccrmastr]

....let me ask you this...

Did you ever think that Ron Paul truly had a chance to become president?


I never did. You think the corruption would allow it?

I maxed out, I spent probably 1000+ hours on campaigning.
And I continue.
I'm not pissed. Everything is going as I thought it would.
It continues. It grows.

I guess you don't get it?

+1

[libertarian4321]

"1. [Redacted by Moderator] Nobody here is crying or feeling sorry for themselves. We are simply calling attention to what amounts to a shitty thing to do."

A whiner is a whiner, even if he tries to sound "tough". Unfortunately for you, I'm still out of tissue.

"2. The money isnt being spent on the CFL. That is a huge part of the problem. The lions share of the remainder is going to Rons Congressional campaign coffers. Yeah, I think he should have spent it on the campaign, but I think the CFL was a viable strategic alternative. IT ISNT GOING THERE. "

You don't know that. If, as someone claims, the money has been shifted from the Pres. campaign to the congressional campaign, it may well be just so they can close the books on the Pres. campaign just for the purpose of filing the mounds of paperwork required by the FEC. That doesn't mean it won't go to the CFL.

Again, NONE of us knows what that money will be used for until its actually used.

"3. Id actually feel better if he spent it on hookers and crack than for my hard earned money to be spent enriching texas printers and radio stations in the off distant future."

There is no chance that the bulk of the money will be going to congressional campaign expenses. Ron is 72 years old. Even if he decides to run 5 more times (unlikely) and those campaigns are significantly contested (almost no chance of that, either), he'd never spend that much money on congressional campaigns.

"4. You can call us names all day long, but here is the simple truth. Ron fucked us, which means we will never donate to another campaign, which means Ron also fucked you. Try going back to going it alone, condescending debatatarian douche. Yep, those 1% nationwide numbers are stunning."

Okay, okay, I was wrong. You aren't just a whiner, you're a childish whiner. My mistake. I never said I was perfect. I apologize.

BTW, when you get to high school, join the debate team, they'll tell you that a weak argument is not strengthened by the use of profanity.

You may now re-assume the fetal position...

[tonesforjonesbones]

Well..I don't understand why he needs over 3 million $$ when he has no opponant. I find it strange, of course, I don't know campaign finance law either. TONES

[Kalifornia]

"1. [Redacted by Moderator] Nobody here is crying or feeling sorry for themselves. We are simply calling attention to what amounts to a shitty thing to do."

A whiner is a whiner, even if he tries to sound "tough". Unfortunately for you, I'm still out of tissue.

Clearly you arent out of summers eve.


"2. The money isnt being spent on the CFL. That is a huge part of the problem. The lions share of the remainder is going to Rons Congressional campaign coffers. Yeah, I think he should have spent it on the campaign, but I think the CFL was a viable strategic alternative. IT ISNT GOING THERE. "

You don't know that. If, as someone claims, the money has been shifted from the Pres. campaign to the congressional campaign, it may well be just so they can close the books on the Pres. campaign just for the purpose of filing the mounds of paperwork required by the FEC. That doesn't mean it won't go to the CFL.

Again, NONE of us knows what that money will be used for until its actually used.

I know what it ISNT being used for, and where it has gone. That is enough to cry foul.


"3. Id actually feel better if he spent it on hookers and crack than for my hard earned money to be spent enriching texas printers and radio stations in the off distant future."

There is no chance that the bulk of the money will be going to congressional campaign expenses. Ron is 72 years old. Even if he decides to run 5 more times (unlikely) and those campaigns are significantly contested (almost no chance of that, either), he'd never spend that much money on congressional campaigns.

Actually 3M sounds like about 5 really well funded congressional campaigns. Didnt he just spend a million on this last congressional primary?


"4. You can call us names all day long, but here is the simple truth. Ron fucked us, which means we will never donate to another campaign, which means Ron also fucked you. Try going back to going it alone, condescending debatatarian douche. Yep, those 1% nationwide numbers are stunning."

Okay, okay, I was wrong. You aren't just a whiner, you're a childish whiner. My mistake. I never said I was perfect. I apologize.

BTW, when you get to high school, join the debate team, they'll tell you that a weak argument is not strengthened by the use of profanity.

You may now re-assume the fetal position...

I dont see you "debating" my conclusion here, because you cant.

Funny. Where did YOU go to law school?

Oh, thats right, you didnt. You opted for the AS in condescension and alienation from the internet school of douchebaggery.

[LibertyEagle]

At this point in time, we don't know how much of the money is going to be funneled back to CFL. Hopefully, quite a lot, but we simply do not know yet.

Keep in mind that the Campaign for Liberty is paying for that huge rally in Saint Paul. They're not paying for that out of exhaust fumes, you know.

[libertarian4321]

Isn't a major issue the fact that RP did not spend the money wisely *after* he had it, to the tune of $4+ million unused?



The last 4 million the campaign raised would have largely come from the last two large "money bombs" held in late January and early February. The campaign was effectively over by late February- using the funds past that point would have accomplished essentially nothing.

It takes time to spend money. Its not like you get the money today and have ads running the next day. Most campaigns will prepare ad runs IN ADVANCE of actually receiving the money in anticipation of future revenues. That strategy gets the ads out there faster, but you run the risk of spending more than you take in (which is why a lot of campaigns end up with debt- as Hillary and others did).

By all accounts, Ron was not willing to run his campaign that way as a matter of principal. So yes, he probably sacrificed some effectiveness, and left some money on the table, because he refused to play the game the way other politicians do. We can debate whether putting principal ahead of "doing whatever it takes to win" was a good idea or not- I happen to think it was, others will disagree. Its really unfortunate that so much of the money Ron raised came late in the campaign (December, January, February). If it had come a couple of months earlier (or if the primaries hadn't been pushed so far forward), who knows, this thing may have turned out far better than it did.

In any event, I don't believe that Ron was trying to "screw us" or whatever some folks are thinking. He ran the campaign the way he thought was best, and came up short, though did far better than any expected him to do.

It sucks, but thats life- you don't always win, but you keep fighting and maybe win next time. I guarantee you that if you just give up and quit, you'll never win...

[LibertyEagle]

Most campaigns will prepare ad runs IN ADVANCE of actually receiving the money in anticipation of future revenues. That strategy gets the ads out there faster, but you run the risk of spending more than you take in (which is why a lot of campaigns end up with debt- as Hillary and others did).

Yes and as I recall, there were quite a few people on here who criticized Murray Sabrin for doing just that.

[Sally08]

"2. The money isnt being spent on the CFL. That is a huge part of the problem. The lions share of the remainder is going to Rons Congressional campaign coffers. Yeah, I think he should have spent it on the campaign, but I think the CFL was a viable strategic alternative. IT ISNT GOING THERE. "

You don't know that. If, as someone claims, the money has been shifted from the Pres. campaign to the congressional campaign, it may well be just so they can close the books on the Pres. campaign just for the purpose of filing the mounds of paperwork required by the FEC. That doesn't mean it won't go to the CFL.

Sounds like money laundering to me under those circumstances.

There definitely is/will be a "paper trail" as to which money transfers move from/to which bank accounts and when.

And wouldn't it have been nice to have received an e-mail explaining the intended allocation of those excess funds, as well as a link to the newly released FEC reports vs. finding out in a newspaper article?


Again, NONE of us knows what that money will be used for until its actually used.

I believe the original article is quoting the published FEC reports.

Do those FEC reports represent reliable information as to how monies "are actually used" as legally reported by HQ?

[libertarian4321]

"I know what it ISNT being used for, and where it has gone. That is enough to cry foul. "

Again, you know NOTHING. Whether the money is currently in the Pres. campaign coffers or the cong. campaign coffers tells you NOTHING about its ultimate distribution.

He can transfer it from EITHER campaign to the CFL anytime he wants to.

Or he can use it for future campaigns.

Or he can spend it on booze and strippers.

Or he can pocket the money.

His choice. Those are the rules.

But until the money is actually spent, you know NOTHING. All the ranting and swearing in the world won't change that fact.


"I dont see you "debating" my conclusion here, because you cant."

Your conclusion was that Ron "F-d you". Sorry, son, I'm not going to "debate" that kind of nonsense.

"Funny. Where did YOU go to law school?"

Its one thing to curse at me and call me names, but to even imply that I might be a lawyer is just a low blow. If you use ad hominem attacks, I'd rather you stick to calling me a d-bag than "lawyer"- leave me with some dignity.

One of the things I really liked about Dr. Paul is that he had a real degree and wasn't just another sleazy lawyer (yes, I know thats redundant).

BTW, one does not have to go to "law school" to be on the debate team. We have them in engineering schools, we have them in B-school, and I'm pretty sure they have them at just about every other college/university as well.

[libertarian4321]

Yes and as I recall, there were quite a few people on here who criticized Murray Sabrin for doing just that.

Yup- thats the problem.

Just about everyone here thinks he's an expert at running campaigns, though I'd guess that few here have ever even run for Junior High class President.

No matter what the campaign does, someone is going to whine- as if they could have done it better.

Spend too fast, someone whines, spend too slow, someone else whines. The campaign can't win, no matter what they do.

See, thats why they hire a staff to run the campaign and just do the best they can, ignoring the bitching, moaning, and wailing from the people on these boards- because they can't run a campaign trying to please 10,000+ "experts" on a forum...

I'm still not doing very well with the nurturing, am I?

[Kalifornia]

"I know what it ISNT being used for, and where it has gone. That is enough to cry foul. "

Again, you know NOTHING. Whether the money is currently in the Pres. campaign coffers or the cong. campaign coffers tells you NOTHING about its ultimate distribution.

He can transfer it from EITHER campaign to the CFL anytime he wants to.

Or he can use it for future campaigns.

Or he can spend it on booze and strippers.

Or he can pocket the money.

His choice. Those are the rules.

But until the money is actually spent, you know NOTHING. All the ranting and swearing in the world won't change that fact.

Since you cant figure out how to use quote tags, I think engineering school probably didnt happen either. And I can tell you that no engineering school I have ever heard of (and I have heard of many), or business school for that matter, has a debate team. Many undergrad colleges do, but most are for the service of those who intend to study law later. By the time you get to law school they are known as mock trial or moot court. If you had been to any school other than the internet school of D-bag, youd probably know that.

Back on point, the fact that Ron CAN do something, does not mean that he SHOULD, or that it is moral, or that it does not break a promise he made. In fact, this shifting of moneys to the congressional campaign violate all three of those measures.

I know all I need to to make a decision, and to talk about it, if you dont like it, lump it.



"I dont see you "debating" my conclusion here, because you cant."

Your conclusion was that Ron "F-d you". Sorry, son, I'm not going to "debate" that kind of nonsense.

sounds like a sad excuse from a debatatarian fanboy.


"Funny. Where did YOU go to law school?"

Its one thing to curse at me and call me names, but to even imply that I might be a lawyer is just a low blow. If you use ad hominem attacks, I'd rather you stick to calling me a d-bag than "lawyer"- leave me with some dignity.

As if I need to do anything for you to lose dignity.


One of the things I really liked about Dr. Paul is that he had a real degree and wasn't just another sleazy lawyer (yes, I know thats redundant).

Oh yes, real degree. right. In case you have forgotten, Thomas Jefferson was a lawyer.

[Kalifornia]

Yup- thats the problem.

Just about everyone here thinks he's an expert at running campaigns, though I'd guess that few here have ever even run for Junior High class President.

No matter what the campaign does, someone is going to whine- as if they could have done it better.

Spend too fast, someone whines, spend too slow, someone else whines. The campaign can't win, no matter what they do.

See, thats why they hire a staff to run the campaign and just do the best they can, ignoring the bitching, moaning, and wailing from the people on these boards- because they can't run a campaign trying to please 10,000+ "experts" on a forum...

I'm still not doing very well with the nurturing, am I?

You should probably start by making some damned sense before you bother with nurturing.

[Sally08]

The last 4 million the campaign raised would have largely come from the last two large "money bombs" held in late January and early February. The campaign was effectively over by late February- using the funds past that point would have accomplished essentially nothing.

You are totally missing my point. Whether or not the campaign was "effectively over" by late February, why weren't the unused millions used for a *marketing* campaign for March, April, May, June, July, and August? To impact the GOP *platform* and the talking points for the general election?


It takes time to spend money. Its not like you get the money today and have ads running the next day. Most campaigns will prepare ad runs IN ADVANCE of actually receiving the money in anticipation of future revenues. That strategy gets the ads out there faster, but you run the risk of spending more than you take in (which is why a lot of campaigns end up with debt- as Hillary and others did).

Given the *millions* that were unused, the possibility of going into debt is irrelevant.


By all accounts, Ron was not willing to run his campaign that way as a matter of principal. So yes, he probably sacrificed some effectiveness, and left some money on the table, because he refused to play the game the way other politicians do.

$4+ million is more than leaving "some money on the table".


We can debate whether putting principal ahead of "doing whatever it takes to win" was a good idea or not- I happen to think it was, others will disagree.

The issue being discussed is whether it was "principal" to not spend the excess millions or *intentional strategy* to not do so, so the funds could be transferred and *used* for other purposes.


Its really unfortunate that so much of the money Ron raised came late in the campaign (December, January, February). If it had come a couple of months earlier (or if the primaries hadn't been pushed so far forward), who knows, this thing may have turned out far better than it did.

Again, you are talking about the *election*, not the *marketing of the message*.


In any event, I don't believe that Ron was trying to "screw us" or whatever some folks are thinking. He ran the campaign the way he thought was best, and came up short, though did far better than any expected him to do..

I see these opposing interpretations of the campaign:

1. RP is very intelligent and all the obvious mistakes were actually intentional strategic decisions or
2. RP made a lot of very bad decisions, particularly in terms of who he hired for his paid staff.

Is either interpretation appropriate for someone who we were hoping to become President? If the second option is the situation, what kind of Cabinet would have been put in place with how little oversight?

How RP did was in spite of his actions and his management of his paid campaign staff. He did well because of the *grass roots efforts*.


It sucks, but thats life- you don't always win, but you keep fighting and maybe win next time. I guarantee you that if you just give up and quit, you'll never win...

Again, if we even *lost* the spreading of the message that was the "backup plan" if RP didn't win the nomination, because RP failed to do so by ending his campaign, how many people will ever hear the message again, once the election cycle is over?

[Sally08]

I'm still not doing very well with the nurturing, am I?

You're not making many debate points, either.

[libertarian4321]

Sounds like money laundering to me under those circumstances.

There definitely is/will be a "paper trail" as to which money transfers move from/to which bank accounts and when.

And wouldn't it have been nice to have received an e-mail explaining the intended allocation of those excess funds, as well as a link to the newly released FEC reports vs. finding out in a newspaper article?



I believe the original article is quoting the published FEC reports.

Do those FEC reports represent reliable information as to how monies "are actually used" as legally reported by HQ?

They will have to detail what they do with the money, though they are free to do virtually anything they want with it. The point is, all we know now is that it was moved from one campaign war chest (presidential) to another (congressional). That doesn't necessarily tell us a thing about how it will ultimately be spent.

Keeping a campaign going is a paperwork nightmare and costs money. Given that the Presidential campaign is over, they probably just want to "close the books" on it. Before they could close the books, they had to do something with the money. Its entirely possible that he just temporarily "parked" the money in the congressional campaign fund (which stays open as long as he's in congress) because he had to get it out of the Presidential campaign in order to shut that campaign down.

In other words, just because it was moved to the congressional campaign does NOT mean its going to be spent running for congress- he can still shift it to the CFL next week or next month if he chooses to do so. Or he can spend it on booze and strippers. Or he can spend it on booze and strippers for the CFL rally (best of both worlds).

[libertarian4321]

You should probably start by making some damned sense before you bother with nurturing.

I'm not nurturing, nor am I a teacher. If you have a reading comprehension problem, ask your teacher to help you.

[Kalifornia]

I'm not nurturing, nor am I a teacher. If you have a reading comprehension problem, ask your teacher to help you.

before a writing can be comprehended, it must first be cohesive and attempt to communicate an actual idea. You Fail in both the cohesion and actual idea departments.


I guess I really shouldnt be suprised that I have to explain this to you.

[Sally08]

He can transfer it from EITHER campaign to the CFL anytime he wants to.

Could you post a link that remotely supports your statement?

There have been many discussions about under what circumstances and under what legal structure CFL was formed as to whether or not the unused funds could be transferred to the CFL.

If they need to be transferred to the Congressional campaign until after that election and then can *legally* be transferred to CFL as a 501c4 nonprofit, fine.

However, I believe I have seen several posts from knowledgeable people that appeared to indicate that there could be issues.

There have even been thread discussions about the legality of RonPaul2008.com having been forwarded to the Congressional site for a few days, while now it is being forwarded to CFL.

From the bottom of the Donate page:
"The Campaign for Liberty is a 501c4 nonprofit. Donations are not tax deductible. "

[Sally08]

They will have to detail what they do with the money, though they are free to do virtually anything they want with it.


Sigh. Please include a link to anything that supports what you keep posting.


The point is, all we know now is that it was moved from one campaign war chest (presidential) to another (congressional). That doesn't necessarily tell us a thing about how it will ultimately be spent.

But there are definitely laws that specify how it *cannot* be spent/transferred.


Keeping a campaign going is a paperwork nightmare and costs money. Given that the Presidential campaign is over, they probably just want to "close the books" on it. Before they could close the books, they had to do something with the money. Its entirely possible that he just temporarily "parked" the money in the congressional campaign fund (which stays open as long as he's in congress) because he had to get it out of the Presidential campaign in order to shut that campaign down.

And it's "entirely possible" that 100% of your guesses are wrong!

Wouldn't it really be nice, for once, if RP told us what he is doing based on the constraints imposed by various legal requirements?

I also think many people would vehemently disagree with you that the campaign has been *SHUT DOWN* vs. suspended.


In other words, just because it was moved to the congressional campaign does NOT mean its going to be spent running for congress- he can still shift it to the CFL next week or next month if he chooses to do so. Or he can spend it on booze and strippers. Or he can spend it on booze and strippers for the CFL rally (best of both worlds).

Sigh. Just more babble.

Hmm. Somehow, I recall hearing that paying strippers tends to impact political careers. Doing so would certainly impact supporter perceptions of RP's personal integrity!

[Kalifornia]

Sigh. Please include a link to anything that supports what you keep posting.



But there are definitely laws that specify how it *cannot* be spent/transferred.



And it's "entirely possible" that 100% of your guesses are wrong!

Wouldn't it really be nice, for once, if RP told us what he is doing based on the constraints imposed by various legal requirements?

I also think many people would vehemently disagree with you that the campaign has been *SHUT DOWN* vs. suspended.



Sigh. Just more babble.

Hmm. Somehow, I recall hearing that paying strippers tends to impact political careers. Doing so would certainly impact supporter perceptions of RP's personal integrity!

Hell, for my share of the overage, I could have rented my own stripper!

How many strippers will $3.5M strip?

[RonPaulFever]

How many strippers will $3.5M strip?

ALL of 'em!

[StudentForPaul08]

All of this is a waste of time. I know my money i gave Dr. Paul is in good hands. ITS DR. PAUL!. I think he just parked it in congressional so he can shut down the pres. run. I would like him to use the rest for CFL, but its all good.

[libertarian4321]

"You are totally missing my point. Whether or not the campaign was "effectively over" by late February, why weren't the unused millions used for a *marketing* campaign for March, April, May, June, July, and August? To impact the GOP *platform* and the talking points for the general election?"

He could have done that. I suspect he thought it would have been ineffective (as do I). Once McCain had locked up the nomination, I doubt that either he or the GOP was particularly open to new ideas. I'm not Ron Paul and staff, but I'll bet they thought long and hard about what to do with the money- and they concluded that spending it on the CFL would be the best use of the money to promote the cause in the long term.


"Is either interpretation appropriate for someone who we were hoping to become President? If the second option is the situation, what kind of Cabinet would have been put in place with how little oversight?"

You seem to be laboring under the belief that politicians who don't make all the right moves are somehow not Presidential material? C'mon, Presidential staff that are far better funded and staffed than Ron's staff could even hope to be screw up colossally all the time- even those that eventually win.

Look at Hillary Clinton- she had every advantage in the world- money, name recognition, backing of the party elite, best campaign staff money could buy, and supposedly the smartest woman in the world, and yet her campaign was an utter disaster.

Rudy Giuliani was even worse- he had the same advantages and wasn't even remotely competitive.

I've never said Ron Paul or his staff are perfect, far from it. But anyone who was here from the beginning has to be impressed with how well they did given what they started with. A year and a half ago, Ron Paul was an obscure, soft spoken congressman, with little charisma and almost no debating experience, who was almost a complete unknown even in San Antonio (50 miles away from Dr. Paul's district), let alone nationwide. The campaign had no money and was run out of a bedroom.

He was running against 1) "America's Mayor" (Giuliani) who was well respected and had almost universal name recognition, a large, professional staff, and tens of millions of dollars at his disposal (his campaign was should be published in textbooks on how to SCREW UP a commanding lead) 2) Fred Thompson- who was also universally known and well liked and had the ability to raise money easily (he ran a disastrous campaign), 3) John McCain- a war hero with big time name recognition, and a veteran of previous Presidential campaigning (his campaign has made tons of mistakes, despite the fact that he was the guy left standing at the end) 4) Mitt "money bags" Romney- a slick talking handsome guy with virtually unlimited financial resources, and son of a Presidential candidate 5) Mike Huckabee- the charismatic "reverend" and darling of the evangelical right. Many of the "2nd tier" Republicans- the Sam Brownback and Tommy Thompson types even looked like they had a better shot than Ron early on.

C'mon, at the start, Ron had about as much chance in this field as Moldova has of winning the World Cup- the fact that he was even competitive with the top tier guys was nothing short of a miracle.

So yeah, I wish Ron had won, but like the Moldovan fans, I did not expect it. I'm happy we were able to present our ideas on a national stage. We lost the nomination, but we HAVE moved the cause of liberty forward.

As an example, last week, Ron Paul was on every news and finance channel taking about the economic meltdown and making his pitch to get rid of the Federal Reserve. You think CNBC et al would have been talking to Ron Paul if he hadn't made some noise in the race?

Now we have a choice, we can take that momentum and move forward (e.g. support the CFL and other liberty minded candidates), or we can take a less productive approach- e.g. giving up or finger pointing/looking for scapegoats.

I think I'll opt for continuing the fight, and I hope most of you do, too.

[libertarian4321]

"Sigh. Please include a link to anything that supports what you keep posting."

I know of what I speak because I have a) run for office and b) served on a campaign staff. There is very little restriction on what a politician can do with the money once the campaign is shut down. I wasn't kidding when I said it could be spent on beer and strippers.



"Wouldn't it really be nice, for once, if RP told us what he is doing based on the constraints imposed by various legal requirements?"

Well, he said he was going to use it on the CFL. He hasn't said anything different, nor have his actions prevented the money from going to the CFL. YOU FOLKS are the ones flying off the handle and wildly speculating on how its going to be misspent and how he "screwed you."

"I also think many people would vehemently disagree with you that the campaign has been *SHUT DOWN* vs. suspended."

Hate to break this to you, hun (better have the tissues nearby), but you can stick a fork in this campaign, its done. I offered you a reason why the money may have been temporarily moved from one campaign to another- and shutting down the campaign is one possibility (btw, "shutting down a campaign" isn't something you do in a day, it takes time). I never said I knew for sure that it was what he was doing- just that it was a possibility - and that he could make the move from one warchest to the other without "screwing you" .

Here's a suggestion, since none of us knows the ultimate destination of this money at this point, why not wait until September before we start ranting and screaming about being "screwed" or "cheated?"

I know, its more fun to be hysterical- but I just thought I'd throw out another option...

[libertarian4321]

Hell, for my share of the overage, I could have rented my own stripper!

How many strippers will $3.5M strip?

Should be enough to buy 175,000 table dances- about 10 dances for each person at the CFL rally (I'm assuming $20/dance- I hope thats enough- its been a while since I've been to a strip club).

[libertarian4321]

ALL of 'em!

There may not be enough strippers in Minnesota. I can bring a couple from Texas (if Ron will pay for them in advance).

[New York For Paul]

Looks like the same people who ran the campaign are running Campaign For Liberty.

Please they should pay attention to the grassroots.

[Knightskye]

There may not be enough strippers in Minnesota. I can bring a couple from Texas (if Ron will pay for them in advance).

I'm sure Tucker will bring some. :D

[Uriel999]

Just gotta say strippers at the Minnesota rally would make the GOP realize the error of their ways!!!

[idiom]

With it in his congressional account it could still be transfered to an Independent Presidential Run. Or many many other things.

He can buy national ad's saying whatever he wants to say as a congressional campaign funds, things he can say as a PAC.

There is an economic hurricane of historic proportions chasing down on the world before the elections. I think he is wisely biding his time.

[fatjohn]

Maybe, just maybe Ron Paul is holding the 3.5 million to get some juice in the movemement after the convention in St Paul. Because maybe, just maybe you can't leave a presidential campaing account open when the presidential race officialy ended.

And maybe just maybe i'm coming over as absolutely certain about what i just said but i'm actually just guessing. lol.

[devil21]

Notice that today's email from the CFL says "Paid for by Committee to Re-elect Ron Paul". That is the congressional campaign. So I guess until the CFL is officially announced in Minn all CFL stuff falls under his congressional campaign and that's why the money was transferred there. Makes sense to me.

[torchbearer]

Notice that today's email from the CFL says "Paid for by Committee to Re-elect Ron Paul". That is the congressional campaign. So I guess until the CFL is officially announced in Minn all CFL stuff falls under his congressional campaign and that's why the money was transferred there. Makes sense to me.

Good eye.

[HenryKnoxFineBooks]

He DID waste my money. I gave him the money to be spent on waking up the nation. Instead he is squirreling it away to spend in Texas. Fuck that. Never again.



Don't worry, he spent YOUR money when he was still in the presidential race. It's my money that he transferred to his Congressional Campaign, I'm I'm just fine with that. :)

[libertarian4321]

Notice that today's email from the CFL says "Paid for by Committee to Re-elect Ron Paul". That is the congressional campaign. So I guess until the CFL is officially announced in Minn all CFL stuff falls under his congressional campaign and that's why the money was transferred there. Makes sense to me.

Thats exactly what I thought he was doing. Some people in here are just ready to start ranting at the drop of a hat, they don't bother to get any facts, they just explode.

[RevolutionSD]

Blogger Andrew Malcolm and his associate at the LA Times have analyzed the most recent FEC reports on the presidential and congressional campaign finances:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/022083.html

Let's buy some kegs and PARTY!

[Miexon]

well at least hes using it now...

[ARealConservative]

Don't worry, he spent YOUR money when he was still in the presidential race. It's my money that he transferred to his Congressional Campaign, I'm I'm just fine with that. :)

I'm fine with it too.

In fact, I imagine far more then 10% are fine with it - and since 90% of the funds were spent - problem solved.

Of course those whining always had different motives anyway. Some people just aren't happy unless they have something to be unhappy about. They actually spend their life looking for perceived slights to get riled up over.

[PlzPeopleWakeUp]

nt

[pepperpete1]

Thats exactly what I thought he was doing. Some people in here are just ready to start ranting at the drop of a hat, they don't bother to get any facts, they just explode.

Ron Paul is known for returning money from his congressional coffers that are not used each year. I am sure he is as honest as the day is long and any monies he may have put in his congressional campaign account from the donations would be available to anyone who wants to look at the books! Cripes, he wouldn't take public funds because he felt it was "stolen" money. Money stolen from the tax payers.

Come on guys, how can anyone think that RP would dupe his supporters?

I am sure he thought it all out as to how the money could be legally used for the CFL.

I myself would like to have seen the monies go towards legal fees to sue the fraudulent GOPers in those states that we know broke the law and party rules.

But I TRUST Ron Paul to do the honorable and honest thing with any and all the money.

[AZ Libertarian]

once again, i am disappointed. We were expressly told right from the start that this money would all be used on the presidential campaign. I have no problem with ron suspending the campaign, but a lot of people gave him money they could not afford to give. Those people should be offered a pro-rated refund. We were all told that the money would not be used for a congressional race. It's true that transferring the money to the congressional campaign fund is not necessarily using it for a congressional race. But that is splitting hairs.

I consider this a broken trust. Everyone here is willing to forgive ron a lot. The awful national campaign that cut the state and local campaigns off at the knees. The video that destroyed our chances at conventions all over the country. So many missed opportunities.

We all support ron and believe he's right on the issues. But this has nothing to do with issues. It has to do with personal integrity and responsibility.

Brian kominsky

here here!

100% spot on.

[Alex Libman]

I wonder if Ron Paul would be allowed by the regulations to contribute some of that money to other libertarian candidates, perhaps on state & local level...

[BKom]

The transfer of the donations to be used for a totally different purpose than specified, similar to issues with many of the major grass roots projects, is the second promise that was broken.

The first promise broken was ending the campaign before the RNC-

Question: Was the actual intent of the Presidential campaign simply to set the groundwork for the CFL?

If so, isn't it ironic that the highly successful GR fund-raising may have disrupted those plans? And could have risked RP's Congressional seat?

Bigger question: What do you think RP will do, if the delegate "coup" or "revolt" actually gets RP the GOP nomination?

If this happens, both Ron and I have promised to ride our unicorns to Candyland, then back to the White House. Oh, and sugar plum fairies will be lining the path ahead of us with gold spun from straw.

[SnappleLlama]

If people gave money when they couldn't afford it, that's not Ron Paul's fault.

I donated to both his congressional and presidential campaigns, and as far as I'm concerned, as long as he's using the money to promote his ideas of freedom, liberty, and limited government, I don't care where he puts it.

[SLSteven]

Ask McCain,he sponsored, but doesn't follow, these stupid laws.

No thanks.

[New York For Paul]

If Obama wins, Ron Paul can start to run for president again, or at least go on a speaking tour.