New Video: Strangebedfellows (How far we've come)

[Jamsie 567]

xx

[torchbearer]

When Dems and Reps come together in D.C., that usually ends up bad for us.

[torchbearer]

guns and butter. :)

[zadrock]

One of their big targets (at least according to Glenn Greenwald at salon.com) is House Majority Leader, Steny Hoyer (MD-5). Fortunately, he's opposed by a RP Republican, Collins Bailey!! Glenn, if you want to throw some of that support a little farther upstate, that's cool too.

Z

[Jamsie 567]

xx

[tomveil]

I'm all for working with anybody who advances our cause. Who knows, maybe we can show a few of em what we're all about ;)

[constituent]

I'm all for working with anybody who advances our cause. Who knows, maybe we can show a few of em what we're all about ;)

the ACLU, dailykos, et. al. are not attempting to advance our cause.

they're looking for bodies/money only.

[sean43]

<div style='background-color:#e9e9e9; width: 425px;'><object id='A891526' quality='high' data='http://aka.zero.jibjab.com/client/zero/ClientZero_EmbedViewer.swf?external_make_id=IaxF6U 3JVpEuQpo7&service=sendables.jibjab.com' pluginspage='http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='transparent' height='319' width='425'><param name='wmode' value='transparent'></param><param name='movie' value='http://aka.zero.jibjab.com/client/zero/ClientZero_EmbedViewer.swf?external_make_id=IaxF6U 3JVpEuQpo7&service=sendables.jibjab.com'></param><param name='scaleMode' value='showAll'></param><param name='quality' value='high'></param><param name='allowNetworking' value='all'></param><param name='allowFullScreen' value='true' /><param name='FlashVars' value='external_make_id=IaxF6U3JVpEuQpo7&service=sendables.jibjab.com'></param><param name='allowScriptAccess' value='always'></param></object><div style='text-align:center; width:435px; margin-top:6px;'>Send a JibJab Sendables&reg; <a href='http://sendables.jibjab.com/sendables'>eCard</a> Today!</div></div><img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://counters.gigya.com/wildfire/CIMP/bT*xJmx*PTEyMTY2NDY3MjA4NTYmcHQ9MTIxNjY*NjkxOTEwMS ZwPTE5MTEzMSZkPSZuPSZnPTI=.jpg" />

[Jamsie 567]

xx

[Jamsie 567]

xx

[constituent]

1) ACLU joins fight over Ron Paul sign


2) My point is there are sometimes we should team up with them for a good cause.

1) i lol'd. this forum was a one-stop shop for fighting neighborhood associations and city ordinances prohibiting signs for most of 2007.

2) what are we teaming up w/ them for again?

[constituent]

Help us put in an end to FISA and become a Strangebedfellow today!
More info: http://www.accountabilitynowpac.com/

Oh yea, that's right. Well, hey since you've come here to ask us for money, i've got this list of concerns that perhaps you can address first. If you would kindly help me out w/ some feedback and your thoughts it would be much appreciated.

to those who've read it before, i apologize for the copy and paste job.






Accountability Now PAC

1) "Accountability PAC has already raised 300K"(?)

This isn't exactly correct. "ActBlue" of which Accountability Now PAC is merely a member
has raised $350K for any number of varied democratic causes. Accountability now, accounts
for a mere 10K of that money.

Who is giving people the impression that Accountability Now PAC has raised >300K?

2) Support Russ Feingold?

I don't remember where I saw this, but one of the original ideas was to have people donate
money to specificially help Russ Feingold so as to (somehow) "send a message" to Obama.

3) Money Bomb to send signal before FISA Vote? FAIL

The FISA vote already happened, so what is the money for again?

Why does it always have to be money? If we are to unite, let us unite around cause
and with our sharpened pens.

4) Promise to take out "full-page" advert. day before vote? FAIL

Though the ANPAC fanboys will point out that a full-page ad was run,
it was not actually run by ANPAC, it was however run by Blue America PAC and
Color of Change (yea, the same color of change that brought us such race-baiting/collectivist incidents as "free the Jena 6")

5) Who is to speak for "the revolution" in terms of when and with whom we
do and do not align "ourselves" with the political "left?"

A situation that is very nuanced, admittedly.

Rather shameful to see it hasn't been given more thought.

Does RP know that this organization (which he endorsed), which has aligned itself through partnership with the new organization bearing his name, is out acting on behalf of the ACLU and Democratic Party establishment (essentially in his name)?

If so... well, it's like the old cigarette ad said, "you've come a long way baby."

6) Exactly to whom and for what is the money going?

A nagging question. Sorta like the blimp.

AFAIK, this PACs primary goal (atleast in terms of the project they are ostensibly raising funds for), is to give money first to themselves (naturally BTM gets a cut for their hard work representing "us") so they can.... do what again? That's right, make donations to democrats. How about if individuals want to donate to the dems, they just go ahead and do it?

7) What is the benefit of participating to the larger Ron Paul community (particularly the conservative wing)?

8) Media Links:




the low bar - http://www.thelowbar.com/2008/07/fis...rture-cya.html


"I've been really spun up about Obama's FISA vote, scratching my head trying to find reasoning for his reversal, which felt like a serious kick in the crotch. But while Obama's flip-flop on the issue was heartbreaking, he wasn't really the one to blame for this capitualtion [sic]..."

Uhhhh.... do what? He wasn't to blame for his own actions? pardon my french, but wtf is that s*?


"The bottom line is that way back in the days after 9/11, and many times since, the Democrats totally caved in to demands by the Bush administration, demands that were very likely illegal, and/or un-Constitutional. Cowards all, they were trying to act tough or avoid looking weak, so they bought into the chest-thumping Bush bluster which dictated that in order to be tough we had to throw away all those sissy civil liberties we enjoyed."

No, that's not the bottom line. I'm not going to go all "conspiratorial," but c'mon you know better, i know better.





Glen Greenwald - http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwa.../11/democrats/


"UPDATE II: I've now had the opportunity to read the full text of the House FISA bill which they unveiled today. It is actually surprisingly good, though the real question, of course, is how committed they really are to having it enacted, as opposed to this being merely a base-placating measure with the real intention of enacting something virtually identical to the Rockefeller/Cheney bill once it is returned from the Senate."

Wow, the FISA bill was "surprisingly good?" Then why the need to fund your PAC to fight against it?





Wall Street Journal - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121443403835305037.html


"Liberal activists and supporters of the Texas Republican and former presidential candidate plan to join forces Thursday and begin a "money bomb" protest of lawmakers who support telecom immunity in the Foreign Surveillance Intelligence Act..."

Really, I plan to join forces thursday? AFAIK, the only individuals who had agreed to "join forces" before the money bomb was announced were Trevor Lyman and Rick Williams.


"The effort is timed to coincide with a planned Senate vote ..."

Missed that opportunity, eh?





Rawstory.com -http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Strange_bedfellows_team_up_to_lobby_0620.htmlhttp://rawstory.com/news/2008/Strange_bedfellows_team_up_to_lobby_0620.html


"The American Civil Liberties Union is teaming with supporters of former Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul and scores of liberal bloggers to pressure Congress on the surveillance law; the effort is calling itself Strange Bedfellows..."

"Parallel to the civil liberties' lobbying push is an effort being spearheaded by the Blue America PAC that aims to raise $350,000 to campaign against lawmakers who support giving immunity to the telecommunications companies, including moderate and conservative Democrats. Markos Moulitsas, founder of DailyKos, laid bare the challenge Thursday"

Wait a minute... BTM forgot to mention the ACLU was behind this.

...and Markos Moulitsas (dailyKos)?

Is our place in "the revolution" really that of the left's "useful idiots?"

And what ever happened to full disclosure?



DemocraticUnderground.org - http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x3480169


"A broad alliance of strange bedfellows is now forming to support a campaign to fight the gutting of FISA (The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act) with the intent to work together on all civil liberties, constitutional rights and rule of law issues."

We're against the gutting of FISA? Hell, i'm for the absolute destruction of FISA, not the democratic controlled oppositions' advocated convenient restructuring.

Anyone advocating secret courts, in any capacity, is no friend of the RPR


"The ACLU is joining with activists from the Ron Paul campaign, represented by Break the Matrix, Rick Williams and Trevor Lymon, and civil liberties writer Glenn Greenwald of Salon, and leading liberal bloggers including, Jane Hamsher of firedoglake"

Again, the ACLU? Why (conveniently) no mention of who is really behind this whole deal?

Typical.


Having said my peace, i now feel better.

Please, if you disagree (or agree w/ anything i've said) feel free to refute or reinforce any of these points as you see fit.




Also: see signature line below

[Jamsie 567]

1) i lol'd. this forum was a one-stop shop for fighting neighborhood associations and city ordinances prohibiting signs for most of 2007.
2) what are we teaming up w/ them for again?


I know it's silly right people getting cited for having a sign in their front yard. Well it's real stuff that happens so maybe it's not so funny if it happens to you. I was simply citing an example no need to think your above 250 dollar fine. By the way you respond to me you would probably file a civil case over it.

There are new ideas out there so I appreciate you engaging me on your opinion. I will not pretend to have all the answers or be a spokesman. The ACLU has been around since WW1. I am sure they got some mistakes but the principle is what matters. This is a coalition so it is not just the ACLU. The name of this is the Accountabilitynowpac.

The basic summary is this: by going to all of the various constituents of each member of this coalition in order to fuel a campaign in defense of civil liberties, constitutional protections and the rule of law. The money raised will be used to oppose and punish those vulnerable members of Congress who continue to support the evisceration of our constitutional framework and core civil liberties, while supporting candidates and office-holders who meaningfully oppose that assault.

(My opinion is if they are who they say they are which I don't doubt. This could become a noble cause which could lead to taking this all the way to Federal court if we do this right.)

You said who am I to ask for money thats a good question? I am a videographer for the Ron Paul movement. Most notable the creator of the November 5th movement which I proposed the first mass donation video through a simple YouTube video. Do I have your permission to post on these forums? You have the choice to look into something if you wish. Nobody is taking money out of your pocket or telling you what to do.

In politics we pick sides I am going to give these guys a shot. There is to much at risk to just sit and critisize new ideas that have some substance to them. If the PAC fails then so be it but I am not going to drop my support because some guy on RP forums is using cut and paste politics.

Regardless of opinions I appreciate your questioning. That is your duty as an American and I will never fault anyone for sharing their opinion.

[constituent]

1) I know it's silly right people getting cited for having a sign in their front yard. Well it's real stuff that happens so maybe it's not so funny if it happens to you.

2) I was simply citing an example no need to think your above 250 dollar fine. By the way you respond to me you would probably file a civil case over it.

1) yea, uhhh, exactly my point.

2) naah, i'd kindly tell them to get the f* off my property. then they would fine me, then i wouldn't pay it, then they'd come arrest me and THEN i would sue their ass.



1) The ACLU has been around since WW1. 2) I am sure they got some mistakes but the principle is what matters. 3) This is a coalition so it is not just the ACLU. The name of this is the Accountabilitynowpac.

1) ahhh yes, the roots of the ACLU, another can of worms in and of itself, too easy... i'll leave it for now.

2) if the principle is "civil" liberties, then it is the wrong principle.

3) You're right, it's a coalition of the most ridiculous left-wing blogs on the internet, the ACLU, Trevor Lyman and Rick Williams.



The basic summary is this: by going to all of the various constituents of each member of this coalition in order to fuel a campaign in defense of civil liberties, constitutional protections and the rule of law. The money raised will be used to oppose and punish those vulnerable members of Congress who continue to support the evisceration of our constitutional framework and core civil liberties, while supporting candidates and office-holders who meaningfully oppose that assault.

(My opinion is if they are who they say they are which I don't doubt. This could become a noble cause which could lead to taking this all the way to Federal court if we do this right.)

for refutation of your basic summary please see my post above.

feel free to respond.

persuade me.



You said who am I to ask for money

no i didn't, now you're just telling lies.

if you're going to get all personal and ridiculous while putting words in my mouth i'm done reading.


::worn out on half-truths and convenient glossing over::


edit: come to think of it, i should have left your gratuitous self-promotion in. it would better display the strawman you were attempting to setup.

[ItsTime]

you want the revolution to give money to an organization that will in turn use that money to slander us??? ONLY BTM could have come up with that great idea.

Mods really should move this pos thread.

[ItsTime]

when dems and reps come together in d.c., that usually ends up bad for us.


guns and butter. :)


the aclu, dailykos, et. Al. Are not attempting to advance our cause.

They're looking for bodies/money only.

qfmft

flagged as spam....

[torchbearer]

qfmft

flagged as spam....

"We have two problems in Washington, the democracts and the republicans" - Ron Paul, July 11th at Mr. Smith's in Washington D.C.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVqg-HkbBD0

NO truer words could have been said... but he also gives us a road map in this speech of how we get out of this hole.

[itshappening]

by the looks of it, this is going to be a pretty big money bomb

[Jamsie 567]

1) yea, uhhh, exactly my point.

2) naah, i'd kindly tell them to get the f* off my property. then they would fine me, then i wouldn't pay it, then they'd come arrest me and THEN i would sue their ass.



1) ahhh yes, the roots of the ACLU, another can of worms in and of itself, too easy... i'll leave it for now.

2) if the principle is "civil" liberties, then it is the wrong principle.

3) You're right, it's a coalition of the most ridiculous left-wing blogs on the internet, the ACLU, Trevor Lyman and Rick Williams.



for refutation of your basic summary please see my post above.

feel free to respond.

persuade me.



no i didn't, now you're just telling lies.

if you're going to get all personal and ridiculous while putting words in my mouth i'm done reading.


::worn out on half-truths and convenient glossing over::


edit: come to think of it, i should have left your gratuitous self-promotion in. it would better display the strawman you were attempting to setup.

I have debated many people like you and I am going to agree to disagree with you on this topic. I realize you don't get the principle because you don't think this is about civil liberties. It has everything to do about that and I would not pledge my support with out doing the research.

Question this we must and if they fail we have the right to critisize it but there are some issues IMO that are worth joining forces over. The 4th amendement being one of them, no harm no foul. To think we are going to progess more by picking people apart rather than (trying) a common alliance is fallacy.

I would be interested in hearing what your opinion on how to over turn FISA?

Ideally what I would like to see happen is see the CFL become the new ACLU backed by our Constitutional beliefs. To me that is victory and I anxiously await to see the CFL next move because that is where I would like to pledge my support.

You have legitimate concerns but you also have some back handed insults. The whole Trevor Lyman stole my bicycle thing is tired and to be frank it allienates a lot of the core supporters from these forums.

[mport1]

Excellent video!

[constituent]

I have debated many people like you and I am going to agree to disagree with you on this topic. I realize you don't get the principle because you don't think this is about civil liberties. It has everything to do about that and I would not pledge my support with out doing the research.

Many people like me?

I see you're at home w/ the collectivists on the left... cool.

..and you're right, i don't think this is about civil liberties. Our liberties exist because we are individuals...

also, tell me how the ACLU and dailykos feel about my "civil" liberties as protected by the second amendment.



Question this we must and if they fail we have the right to critisize it but there are some issues IMO that are worth joining forces over.

If they fail at what exactly? Most of the Accountability Now PACs stated goals are missed opportunities, chances come and gone.

Tell us, what is their plan?



The 4th amendement being one of them, no harm no foul.

How about the first amendment (see McCain-Feingold, yes Russ Feingold)?



To think we are going to progess more by picking people apart rather than (trying) a common alliance is fallacy.

Ok, and that sentence is a strawman. No one suggests we will progress by picking people apart. However, it is my stance that we will regress by turning into causeheads manipulated by the "left" in order to raise money for a democratic party hack PAC. All the while, further hampering future legitimate requests for funds for projects that might actually stand to benefit the RPR and conservatism in general.

And again, what is the common alliance? Exactly what benefit will the ron paul community see from donating their money to help elect democrats?

I noticed you said something about taking FISA to a federal court... Do you have an actual case in mind, does Accountability Now PAC?

Even if there were (there isn't, you know it and i know it), would it be Accountability Now PAC providing the legal defense fund?



I would be interested in hearing what your opinion on how to over turn FISA?

Want to actually overturn FISA? Have your buddies on the left lobby for their democratic congress to repeal the whole damn thing.

Again, secret courts are "unAmerican," and I have no interest in seeing a convenient restructuring that will serve as nothing more than a convenient rallying point for dems.

What exactly does Accountability Now PAC actually plan to do that would lead to overturning FISA, i have yet to see.

So far, it's all been about a money bomb to hold those "accountable" for not bowing to the wishes of the left-o-sphere and nothing more.



Ideally what I would like to see happen is see the CFL become the new ACLU backed by our Constitutional beliefs. To me that is victory and I anxiously await to see the CFL next move because that is where I would like to pledge my support.

Not really certain what that has to do with Accountability Now PAC....



You have legitimate concerns but you also have some back handed insults.

Sometimes you get what you give. If your buddies at accountability now pac and btm want a friendlier reception around these parts, spread the word that they might consider their actions/insults before they come here and bad mouth anyone who dares express strategic/tactical concerns.



The whole Trevor Lyman stole my bicycle thing is tired

I'm not even sure wtf that is supposed to mean.


and to be frank it allienates a lot of the core supporters from these forums.

lol, what alienates people from these forums most is the eternal goading for cash while refusing to answer legitimate questions concerns (you have yet to address any of the points raised in the post above... which serves as an excellent example).


......


Seriously though, it's not just me who sees through this garbage so you can make this as personal as you like, but the concerns still stand and the inability to even discuss them on your part and the part of other btm/anpac fanboys speaks volumes.



Here is a really simple direct question:

What exactly will the money you are asking us to donate be spent on?

[Jamsie 567]

Many people like me?

I see you're at home w/ the collectivists on the left... cool.

..and you're right, i don't think this is about civil liberties. Our liberties exist because we are individuals...

also, tell me how the ACLU and dailykos feel about my "civil" liberties as protected by the second amendment.



If they fail at what exactly? Most of the Accountability Now PACs stated goals are missed opportunities, chances come and gone.

Tell us, what is their plan?



How about the first amendment (see McCain-Feingold, yes Russ Feingold)?



Ok, and that sentence is a strawman. No one suggests we will progress by picking people apart. However, it is my stance that we will regress by turning into causeheads manipulated by the "left" in order to raise money for a democratic party hack PAC. All the while, further hampering future legitimate requests for funds for projects that might actually stand to benefit the RPR and conservatism in general.

And again, what is the common alliance? Exactly what benefit will the ron paul community see from donating their money to help elect democrats?

I noticed you said something about taking FISA to a federal court... Do you have an actual case in mind, does Accountability Now PAC?

Even if there were (there isn't, you know it and i know it), would it be Accountability Now PAC providing the legal defense fund?



Want to actually overturn FISA? Have your buddies on the left lobby for their democratic congress to repeal the whole damn thing.

Again, secret courts are "unAmerican," and I have no interest in seeing a convenient restructuring that will serve as nothing more than a convenient rallying point for dems.

What exactly does Accountability Now PAC actually plan to do that would lead to overturning FISA, i have yet to see.

So far, it's all been about a money bomb to hold those "accountable" for not bowing to the wishes of the left-o-sphere and nothing more.



Not really certain what that has to do with Accountability Now PAC....



Sometimes you get what you give. If your buddies at accountability now pac and btm want a friendlier reception around these parts, spread the word that they might consider their actions/insults before they come here and bad mouth anyone who dares express strategic/tactical concerns.



I'm not even sure wtf that is supposed to mean.



lol, what alienates people from these forums most is the eternal goading for cash while refusing to answer legitimate questions concerns (you have yet to address any of the points raised in the post above... which serves as an excellent example).


......


Seriously though, it's not just me who sees through this garbage so you can make this as personal as you like, but the concerns still stand and the inability to even discuss them on your part and the part of other btm/anpac fanboys speaks volumes.



Here is a really simple direct question:

What exactly will the money you are asking us to donate be spent on?

What I mean't by people like you is your condesending remarks and know it all replies. Which is blatantly obvious since your first post. You fail at seeing the over all goal while being hung up on petty differences. You now call me a collectivist on the left really? Then you say your not trying to make this personal give me a break. I am a Republican conservative but open minded enough to help assist in a cause that does promote my interest the 4th amendment.

I am not lobbying for some big social program. I am lobbying for my Constitution.

Let me break it down since you over looked it the first time. The money will go to marketing, advertising, lobbying and community education. Which is what is explained before and I also posted this below as well.

(2nd time posted)
The basic summary is this: by going to all of the various constituents of each member of this coalition in order to fuel a campaign in defense of civil liberties, constitutional protections and the rule of law. The money raised will be used to oppose and punish those vulnerable members of Congress who continue to support the evisceration of our constitutional framework and core civil liberties, while supporting candidates and office-holders who meaningfully oppose that assault.

You said:
Want to actually overturn FISA? Have your buddies on the left lobby for their democratic congress to repeal the whole damn thing.

(What the hell do you think this is about seriously man)

This is about Civil Liberties to me because the corruption has destroyed the 4th amendment by warrantless wire tapping and telecom immunity. Yes we get our rights from the creator but last I checked he failed to keep the 4th amendmant in tact. Who cares about indvidual rights if we have none left. Is the belief more important than reality, I think not.

It requires a little bit of courage to get out of your comfort zone. They explanied everything good enough whether or not you choose to see it. The FREEDOM message will bring us together not divde us. I am debating one issue here and you are trying to debate multiple issues. I am not joining the Democratic Party I am supporting this particular measure. This is not a Republican or Democrat issue this is a human issue about our rights.

I am going to leave you with a quote. I will also leave you the last word in this argument. I explained my point of view and I hope more people in the RP community get involved.

"One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." --Plato

[ItsTime]

Ok, and that sentence is a strawman. No one suggests we will progress by picking people apart. However, it is my stance that we will regress by turning into causeheads manipulated by the "left" in order to raise money for a democratic party hack PAC. All the while, further hampering future legitimate requests for funds for projects that might actually stand to benefit the RPR and conservatism in general.


QFT.

BTM has no idea what they are doing.

[CUnknown]

It's very sad, constituent, that you would rather turn away potential allies than work with people who might disagree with you on a few things.

The radical left are our natural allies in the fight against the status quo. Organizations like the ACLU are our natural allies in the fight for civil liberties. No one is being "manipulated" by anyone. BTM is trying to advance our cause. You apparently would rather see it left behind. No one is saying you have to give money to the ACLU if you don't want to, but speaking out against it in this way is counterproductive.

[constituent]

1) The money will go to marketing, advertising, lobbying and community education.

...

Yes we get our rights from the creator but last I checked he failed to keep the 4th amendmant in tact. Who cares about indvidual rights if we have none left.

...

2) They explanied everything good enough whether or not you choose to see it.

....


3) "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." --Plato


1) If this sort of mentality is the basis upon which you (or they) plan on "educating," well i will let your comment speak for itself.

2) Yes, they did explain everything good enough to make their goals/intentions perfectly clear. It is unfortunate that your desire to protect BTM as they attempt to ingratiate themselves to the liberal blog-o-sphere at the expense of legitimacy blinds you from seeing them.

An easy place to start would be by reading the media links on the ANPAC site.

(there are a few choice excerpts listed in the post above)

Their words, like yours, speak for themselves.

3) That appears to happen whether we participate or not. In politics it appears the biggest bully, the greatest frauds will always win.

P.S. if they were truly concerned with the fourth amendment the target would be HIIPA... I don't see that happening though, as it is a vital piece of the "Universal Health Care" puzzle. "Opposing" FISA is a matter of convenience, not principle.

[ItsTime]

It's very sad, constituent, that you would rather turn away potential allies than work with people who might disagree with you on a few things.

The radical left are our natural allies in the fight against the status quo. Organizations like the ACLU are our natural allies in the fight for civil liberties. No one is being "manipulated" by anyone. BTM is trying to advance our cause. You apparently would rather see it left behind. No one is saying you have to give money to the ACLU if you don't want to, but speaking out against it in this way is counterproductive.

they are not asking us to give money to the ACLU, they are asking us to give our money to a far left pac. That has used money in the past to attack conservatism. Now btm is asking for CONSERVATIVES to give TIME and MONEY to the very people that attack us?? :rolleyes:

you cant make horse shit taste like cake, though BTM is trying to cover it in chocolate

[CUnknown]

ItsTime, that's why it's called 'strangebedfellows.' They may have attacked 'conservatism' in the past, but they've never attacked civil liberties. They are our allies when it comes to civil liberties. It's a show of solidarity.

If you don't agree with a particlar moneybomb, just don't participate. Attempting to derail it just doesn't seem right to me.

[constituent]

The money will go to marketing, advertising, lobbying and community education.

....


It requires a little bit of courage to get out of your comfort zone.


Here Jamsie 567, let me school you real quick on "community education" and the "courage to get out of your comfort zone."


edit: links removed so as to not blow my cover (though i'm not really hiding).
if you're interested in what was contained therein, just PM me and i'll shoot them over.

You want to educate, there's how you do it... and it didn't cost a cent.



(2nd time posted)
The basic summary is this: by going to all of the various constituents of each member of this coalition in order to fuel a campaign in defense of civil liberties, constitutional protections and the rule of law. The money raised will be used to oppose and punish those vulnerable members of Congress who continue to support the evisceration of our constitutional framework and core civil liberties, while supporting candidates and office-holders who meaningfully oppose that assault.


Take your slogans and shove 'em.

[constituent]

ItsTime, that's why it's called 'strangebedfellows.' They may have attacked 'conservatism' in the past, but they've never attacked civil liberties. They are our allies when it comes to civil liberties. It's a show of solidarity.

If you don't agree with a particlar moneybomb, just don't participate. Attempting to derail it just doesn't seem right to me.

Only room for those willing to shutup and fall in line around here?

No one is attempting to "derail" anything btw, just pointing out the fallacy that filling accountability now pac's coffers will in some way benefit the RP Revolution.

[CUnknown]

Only room for those willing to shutup and fall in line around here?

No one is attempting to "derail" anything btw, just pointing out the fallacy that filling accountability now pac's coffers will in some way benefit the RP Revolution.

You've made your opinion clear, and then some. You keep hammering at this, and one has to wonder if your real goal isn't to hinder the moneybomb. Certainly seems like it, right?

You know what they say: lead, follow, or get out of the way. You're not leading, and you're certainly not following. You've made your opinion known, it's time to step aside. Saying that people have been "manipulated" into donating to the moneybomb just isn't appropriate. It shows a lack of respect, imo.

[constituent]

You've made your opinion clear, and then some. You keep hammering at this, and one has to wonder if your real goal isn't to hinder the moneybomb. Certainly seems like it, right?

Well, if by hinder the money bomb you mean educate others in the ron paul community as to the realities of where the money is going... yes.

If by hinder the money bomb you mean encouraging others to show a vote of "no confidence" in democratic party hacks eager to exploit perceived goodwill amongst the ron paul community, guilty of that charge as well.

Proudly guilty.



You know what they say: lead, follow, or get out of the way. You're not leading, and you're certainly not following.

Your opinion.



You've made your opinion known, it's time to step aside.

That is your determination to make?

btw, I've already asked once that my account be deleted, if my words are so upsetting to you i suggest that you second my motion in the form of a PM to the admins. Until then I will continue to voice my opinion on this board.

[constituent]

ItsTime, that's why it's called 'strangebedfellows.' They may have attacked 'conservatism' in the past, but they've never attacked civil liberties.

LoL, right.

[ItsTime]

this thread needs:

http://zapfu.com/files/nf996o5ke0ptyx9j2x3r.jpg (http://zapfu.com/)

BTM cant raise money for shit anyway. Really, they are a failure. No really cause for concern but I am sure they will lie about how much they helped blah blah blah. hurt our movement even more when this pac starts to attack conservatism right before the election Ya for be short sighted!

[ItsTime]

ItsTime, that's why it's called 'strangebedfellows.' They may have attacked 'conservatism' in the past, but they've never attacked civil liberties. They are our allies when it comes to civil liberties. It's a show of solidarity.

If you don't agree with a particlar moneybomb, just don't participate. Attempting to derail it just doesn't seem right to me.

see post above. BTM is a failure is this will just be added to the list. Go ahead mods start deleting my posts. (sarcasm)

[Grimnir Wotansvolk]

has Strangebedfellows contact or been contacted by the National Initiative For Democracy?

[bomybomy]

I'm pretty sure the Dems are against it solely because Bush is for it. I doubt there is any principle at all behind it.

[Jamsie 567]

I'm pretty sure the Dems are against it solely because Bush is for it. I doubt there is any principle at all behind it.

There are lots of good Dems out there granted we support different policies. I think the best approach is show them our message and I guarantee many will see the light. How many people on these forums used to be Democrats I bet a lot.

In the famous words of Ron Paul. The Freedom message can unite us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlfKdbWwruY

[shelly]

Jamsie567, this video is amazing!!! Thank you for creating it.

The only way our movement is going to gain traction is if we reach out to new people. As Jamsie pointed out, how many of us were once Democrats?

I see this as an opportunity to educate people outside of our own group about the importance of fighting for our individual liberties. The transpartisan aspect makes it more newsworthy, which gets our message exposed to a totally new (and fairly mainstream) audience.

That's one of the things I like best about it. I don't know that we would have been written up in the Wall Street Journal or have 200+ liberal bloggers writing about holding these corrupt lawmakers accountable if Accountability Now didn't exist.

We've all seen Washington's quote "Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth..." so, let's start planting some seeds!!!

[Kade]

They have been a staunch opponet of the Patriot Act and many other civil liberty cases. I think you can find dirt on any organization but since you are claiming what you said it's important people know they are a non profit organization that works through legislative, litigation and community education.

They been around since World War 1 and have been holding congress accountable for years. If we have a successful suit against FISA that advances our cause. If you got a better idea to get rid of FISA lets hear it. These guys are pros and sometimes you need to step out side the box to win.

I am using my talents to help them and hope other RP supporters do the same.

Outstanding. As a contributor to DailyKos and a member of the ACLU, I can vouch for the absolute validity of the willingness to cross the lines for this common goal. We will stick a RP Republican in over a neo-con any day...

[Jamsie 567]

One of their big targets (at least according to Glenn Greenwald at salon.com) is House Majority Leader, Steny Hoyer (MD-5). Fortunately, he's opposed by a RP Republican, Collins Bailey!! Glenn, if you want to throw some of that support a little farther upstate, that's cool too.

Z

This is a key point man thank you. I am presently talking to Bedfellows to see what will be done with Hoyer. I know they vigouroulsy oppose Hoyer he is a sell out and one of the key enablers who supported the FISA amendments. Collins is the guy that I am backing and I think Greenwald needs to clarify his support in the MD 5th district more clear.

If they want the RP community on board they better position their support carefullly.

I will keep you guys posted once I get more news.

[constituent]

We've all seen Washington's quote "Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth..." so, let's start planting some seeds!!!

and these seeds would be... ?

[constituent]

I'm pretty sure the Dems are against it solely because Bush is for it. I doubt there is any principle at all behind it.

No need for doubt when they give you all the info. you need to know.

Don't take my word for it, let Glenn Greenwald speak for himself:

Glenn Greenwald - http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwa.../11/democrats/


UPDATE II: I've now had the opportunity to read the full text of the House FISA bill which they unveiled today. It is actually surprisingly good, though the real question, of course, is how committed they really are to having it enacted.


Exactly what about that says "against FISA?"

[constituent]

Jamsie567, this video is amazing!!! Thank you for creating it.

The only way our movement is going to gain traction is if we reach out to new people.

Stunning revelation, right?

Naaaah.



That's one of the things I like best about it. I don't know that we would have been written up in the Wall Street Journal

I do.

WSJ Business Technology Section: Learn from Ron Paul, Internet Icon (http://blogs.wsj.com/biztech/2007/10/04/learn-from-ron-paul-internet-icon/)

WSJ: Paul Grabs Attention of Alienated Voters (http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB118852395739814099-9hV_ZN2XI_llqSTJrGfxurkisa4_20070929.html)

WSJ: Ron Paul Switches to Bigger Arena (http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/07/22/ron-paul-switches-to-bigger-arena/)

[Jamsie 567]

Stunning revelation, right?

Naaaah.

What grade are you in? I am trying to figure out why your such an .....

Here is a hanky for you...
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:h3XbMnhH04_2jM:http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/1795210/2/istockphoto_1795210_cry_baby.jpg

[constituent]

What grade are you in? I am trying to figure out why your such an asshole.



rofl, the one where you learn the difference between your and you're....

have fun breaking the matrix as you rage against the machine w/ the rest of the useful idiots amongst the democratic controlled opposition.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1428/1008871923_8ef97aec3d_d.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3187/2334815174_8c86d7ef33.jpg?v=0


(bullshit on parade)


no one's buying it.

i see your refusal to address valid concerns w/ valid answers is working wonders for ya too:

http://widgets.alexa.com/traffic/graph/?r=7d&y=r&z=2&h=300&w=470&c=1&u%5B%5D=breakthematrix.com&u%5B%5D=ronpaulforums.com&x=2008-07-24T00%3A16%3A31.000Z&check=www.alexa.com&signature=rsrvbDQ8wNjMXf9M%2F8wUWOjZkDE%3D