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View Full Version : Ron Paul should weigh in on Texas case of Kenneth Foster




rodent
08-29-2007, 09:30 AM
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Sematary
08-29-2007, 09:39 AM
So let me get this straight. Was he, or was he not, party to a crime that involved murder? Yes or no will suffice.

McDermit
08-29-2007, 09:41 AM
he should comment on hazleton's illegal immigration relief act as well... Fred did and it really bolstered his support around here :rolleyes:

There are a few thing I wish he'd comment on... Fingers crossed.

rodent
08-29-2007, 09:43 AM
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kylejack
08-29-2007, 09:49 AM
I'm not really satisfied this is a good case to push the issue on. He may not have known murder would happen, but he was doing the driving for robberies.

Ruben Cantu and Cameron Todd Willingham are probably much better cases to cite.

Sematary
08-29-2007, 09:50 AM
I'm not really satisfied this is a good case to push the issue on. He may not have known murder would happen, but he was doing the driving for robberies.

Ruben Cantu and Cameron Todd Willingham are probably much better cases to cite.

That was why I asked the question. What was his involvement? If he was a co-conspirator in a crime that ended up in the murder of an innocent person then I have no sympathy for him.

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 09:54 AM
While, I don't agree with the death penalty, this case is due process. He presented his case to a jury of his peers and they sentenced him accordingly. He'll have numerous appeals so the process still has a ways to go here. It doesn't appear to be a case where our system of government needs to be undermined.

kylejack
08-29-2007, 09:57 AM
That was why I asked the question. What was his involvement? If he was a co-conspirator in a crime that ended up in the murder of an innocent person then I have no sympathy for him.


The murder of Michael LaHood occurred on the night of Aug. 14, 1996. Kenneth Foster, along with Mauriceo Brown, DeWayne Dillard, and Julius Steen, used Dillard's gun to commit two armed robberies, reportedly under the influence of alcohol and marijuana. The testimony established the general route taken after the first two robberies, by Foster as he followed Mary Patrick's vehicle from an apartment complex off Blanco Road, across Bitters Road, north on San Pedro avenue, and into the neighborhood and the LaHood residence, a distance in excess of 5 miles. They pulled over and Mauriceo Brown got out of the vehicle and robbed and killed LaHood. According to testimony, they had not discussed robbing or killing LaHood, and instead had followed Mary Patrick to get her phone number. They claimed that despite having just commited two robberies and followed Ms. Patrick for miles, they had no idea another robbery was going to take place. Foster claims Brown effectively acted "out of an independent impulse".[1] Foster, the driver, began to leave the scene, but the others convinced him to wait for Brown. They were caught and arrested on August 15, 1996.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Foster

rodent
08-29-2007, 09:58 AM
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Green Mountain Boy
08-29-2007, 10:01 AM
That was why I asked the question. What was his involvement? If he was a co-conspirator in a crime that ended up in the murder of an innocent person then I have no sympathy for him.

I know a man who was in the exact same situation as this guy, and is serving a life sentence without parole. I have visited him in prison many times and listened to his story. There is no justice in his sentence and I doubt there is for Kenneth Foster either.

SeanEdwards
08-29-2007, 10:01 AM
I don't think there's anything necessarily unjust about executing a co-conspirator who didn't directly harm anyone. As far as we know, Osama Bin Laden has never directly harmed anyone, yet he's going to hang if he is ever caught.

Remember that scene from "Lonesome Dove", when Duvall and his partner string up their friend? I think they said something like, "if you ride with outlaws, you hang with them too".

Patriot
08-29-2007, 10:02 AM
In other words, he's being given a death sentence for driving a car. This is unconstitutional, cruel, and excessive.

- Texas is Ron Paul's home state
- This is an example of extreme behavior of the state, depriving individuals of life
- The campaign should leverage this in the media as a way to 1) do some good and 2) simultaneously push the concept of individual rights to suggest that the system can work for minorities, many of whom believe the justice system is discriminatory

AFAIK, RP is against the death penalty. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. He changed his stance on this issue and has commented about it. Being against the death penalty makes sense in a country where the justice system has a lot of quirks, especially in cases where there is no clear link between the person being tried and the victim. Furthermore, this is fertile ground for reaching out to collectivist minority voters.

IMO, Ron Paul's response to this would be that it is a state issue and not a federal issue. Yes, Texas is Ron Paul's (current) home state, and yes he is opposed to the death penalty but he is a U.S. representative and his interests lie in the workings of the federal government not the workings of the state government, and he believes in states' rights.

McDermit
08-29-2007, 10:03 AM
The case to execute him was built around the idea that he did know, which is why the guy really should be set free, even if the event shouldn't be politicized.

Who's to say that his version is true? That was for the jury to decide.

Sematary
08-29-2007, 10:09 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Foster

So, he WAS involved. That's all I wanted to know.
And, where was he going to drive of to? Was he going to inform officials of the murder or just try to escape?

Green Mountain Boy
08-29-2007, 10:11 AM
I don't think there's anything necessarily unjust about executing a co-conspirator who didn't directly harm anyone. As far as we know, Osama Bin Laden has never directly harmed anyone, yet he's going to hang if he is ever caught.

Remember that scene from "Lonesome Dove", when Duvall and his partner string up their friend? I think they said something like, "if you ride with outlaws, you hang with them too".

Did you read about the case? He never conspired to harm anyone, nor had any intention of doing so.

kylejack
08-29-2007, 10:15 AM
Did you read about the case? He never conspired to harm anyone, nor had any intention of doing so.

Then why were they driving around robbing people? Two people had been robbed earlier in the night, and he was doing the driving.

NCGOPer_for_Paul
08-29-2007, 10:18 AM
It's a tough one. The guy was involved. Did he hurt anyone? No. Did he mean to hurt anyone? Probably no. However, the guy did drive the car in which the murderer used to get to the victim.

While I do not think the guy should be put to death for it, unfortunately, he was involved in the crime.

There are TONS of women locked up in female prisons for basically standing by their man, never doing anything wrong except being involved with a criminal. That's just the way it is. Wanna change the law? Then work on changing the law.

Sematary
08-29-2007, 10:20 AM
Did you read about the case? He never conspired to harm anyone, nor had any intention of doing so.

If you're running around with guns, robbing people, the distinct possibility exists that someone is going to die. No pity. Sorry.

kylejack
08-29-2007, 10:24 AM
If you guys want a case to use, try Ruben Cantu: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3472872.html

People who now seem to think he's innocent:
The jury forewoman (information withheld from us, his death is on all of our heads)
The prosecutor (crappy defense, I shouldn't have seeked the death penalty)
The judge (crappy defense)
The alleged co-conspirator (told the cops what they wanted to hear for a deal)
The sole eyewitness (cops put pressure on me, told them what they wanted to hear)

rodent
08-29-2007, 10:30 AM
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rodent
08-29-2007, 10:32 AM
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rodent
08-29-2007, 10:37 AM
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kylejack
08-29-2007, 10:42 AM
State laws are not allowed to be unconstitutional. They're violating the constitution.

Let the punishment fit the crime. Sure, give the man 30 years. But death row is a bit much for this character.
He's not a good candidate. Push the cases where the person may not have been involved at all, or the stuff from innocenceproject.org.

rodent
08-29-2007, 10:46 AM
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bc2208
08-29-2007, 10:46 AM
Guys, the issue is being pro-life. I don't feel bad for a criminal who risked other people's lives. But in this case, there is a decent chance that he didn't know, and he can't be executed justly on a probability.

Sem, if driving around knowing there's a chance that someone could be killed deserves the death penalty, then so does armed robbery. There are reasons that sentence is reserved for the rarest cases. I've read a lot of books about people who were innocent and executed. It's one of the worst things about our country, and it has to change along with all this other stuff we talk about.


Sent this email:

Dear Governor Perry,

As much as I deplore the murder of innocent people, I believe the murder of guilty people is not a suitable response. You take a grave risk in committing a person to death, because there have been many cases in our history in which innocent parties have been executed by the state. In these cases, the state is no less guilty than the man who killed Mr. LaHood. If there is even a shred of doubt that this man intended to be an accomplice to murder, then his execution should be halted. Please reconsider your position and make the choice for LIFE!

Thank you and God Bless,
Brian Cunningham

McDermit
08-29-2007, 10:48 AM
Reading that site didn't do it for me. Sounds like a bunch of bs. The defense has holes that a jury couldn't overlook. I'm personally against the death penalty, but this dude should have gotten life

kylejack
08-29-2007, 10:50 AM
Guys, the issue is being pro-life. I don't feel bad for a criminal who risked other people's lives. But in this case, there is a decent chance that he didn't know, and he can't be executed justly on a probability.

Sem, if driving around knowing there's a chance that someone could be killed deserves the death penalty, then so does armed robbery. There are reasons that sentence is reserved for the rarest cases. I've read a lot of books about people who were innocent and executed. It's one of the worst things about our country, and it has to change along with all this other stuff we talk about.
Well, that's what he was participating in, armed robbery. Armed robbery generally puts someone else's life on the line, potentially, so I don't view it much more lightly than murder. I'd like to see the death penalty abolished across the board, though.

bc2208
08-29-2007, 10:54 AM
I know that, and armed robbery doesn't carry a death sentence.

kylejack
08-29-2007, 11:00 AM
I know that, and armed robbery doesn't carry a death sentence.

If murder should, armed robbery should. They show nearly the same disregard for the lives and rights of others. Life imprisonment for both would be ideal, but if one is getting murder, I don't see a good reason why the other should get less.

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 11:55 AM
I know that, and armed robbery doesn't carry a death sentence.

In Texas, the death penalty is on the table for any murder that occurs while in the commission of a felony. Armed robbery is a felony, if someone is murdered while committing armed robbery, jurors have the option of the death penalty.

JosephTheLibertarian
08-29-2007, 11:59 AM
Marxists are morons. Yeah, they look cool and all with their Che Guevara shirts, but what about the practicality of their economics? Fucking horrible. They just never learn ha. At least be an anarchist, the hell with communism. On the death penalty, as governor, I'd immediately commute all people on death row to life in prison, then I'd pardon all non violent criminals so that we don't have to waste money on more prisons. That would be a good short term solution.

Sematary
08-29-2007, 12:22 PM
If your friend uses a computer in your house and downloads an MP3 without you knowing, should you also pay a fine to the RIAA if he gets caught?

This rule of parties law stinks, and in this case, it's being used as the vehicle to deliver a cruel and unusual punishment.

Bad analogy. This individual was involved in a FELONY when the murder was committed.
The felony was being committed WITH GUNS. The chances that someone could ACCIDENTALLY be killed were already high. He IS complicit in this murder.

Sematary
08-29-2007, 12:23 PM
I'll grant you that. Perhaps the idea was silly -- let the thread die.

However, for those who're interested in justice, please call Governor Perry's office to voice your support for overturning the sentence given to Kenneth Foster.

Is there justice in there for the family of the deceased? No, he didn't pull the trigger, but his actions were directly involved in the death of this individual.

bc2208
08-29-2007, 12:35 PM
Is there justice in there for the family of the deceased? No, he didn't pull the trigger, but his actions were directly involved in the death of this individual.

Imprisonment is justice, execution is vengeance - IMO

trispear
08-29-2007, 12:38 PM
Marxists are morons. Yeah, they look cool and all with their Che Guevara shirts, but what about the practicality of their economics? Fucking horrible. They just never learn ha. At least be an anarchist, the hell with communism. On the death penalty, as governor, I'd immediately commute all people on death row to life in prison, then I'd pardon all non violent criminals so that we don't have to waste money on more prisons. That would be a good short term solution.

Yeah, lets commute all those scheisters from Enron, people who commit identity theft, and all those other wonderful white collar criminals. It will make our society a better place, for sure.:rolleyes:

Sematary
08-29-2007, 12:39 PM
Imprisonment is justice, execution is vengeance - IMO

There ARE some people that deserve to die.
I personally don't think this guy is one of them but I don't feel any pity for him considering his history

bc2208
08-29-2007, 12:39 PM
We could just make everyone go raw and they'd stop hatin'.

bc2208
08-29-2007, 12:40 PM
There ARE some people that deserve to die.
I personally don't think this guy is one of them but I don't feel any pity for him considering his history

I agree, but I also think that life in prison is more torture than execution, since you're going to hell anyway (in most cases).

Sematary
08-29-2007, 12:41 PM
I agree, but I also think that life in prison is more torture than execution, since you're going to hell anyway (in most cases).

I don't believe in Hell and I don't care if this guy fries or not.

bc2208
08-29-2007, 12:44 PM
In this case I was using it as a figure of speech. I actually don't believe in hell either - I'm not sure what to think on that issue, and I'm not arrogant enough to assume I could ever know the correct answer. But say when we die we are redeemed of all our sins and don't go to hell, I'd still rather see him rot.

JosephTheLibertarian
08-29-2007, 01:00 PM
Yeah, lets commute all those scheisters from Enron, people who commit identity theft, and all those other wonderful white collar criminals. It will make our society a better place, for sure.:rolleyes:

No, I'm talking about the drug users and drug dealers mainly.