A moral obligation

[Indy4Chng]

I was on my local newspaper politics forum and I saw socialized healthcare justified by we have a moral obligation ....... that got me to thinking what are your favorite sayings that you know are going to lead to infrindgement on liberties, growth in the government, higher taxes, etc.

Mine:

"What about the children?" :mad:
"Do you want the terrorist to win?" :eek:
"We have a moral obligation" :confused:

I know if I hear any of these lines the statement has either been preceeded by a giant lie or a one is about to come and it is not going to be good for my freedom!! You guys got any others?

[Kludge]

"If you don't like America, get the hell out!"

"You don't support affirmative action because you're a racist. Fuck you."

"You're not poor"

"You're not Jewish"

"You can afford going to the doctor"

Being a well-off white male puts me at a serious disadvantage when speaking of libertarianism :(

[Fox McCloud]

"if you don't, people will starve" <---if things get as bad or worse than the 30's Depression era, I almost guarantee this is what they'll print and put in newspapers to belittle those who prepared for the crash...once those people have been demonized, then nearly everyone will justify the government stealing other people's food, supplies, gold, etc.

the ads will feature emaciated people, sad looking children, and families who are absolutely destitute and broke...whether their plight has to do with the crash or not. It's also likely that if you oppose any socialist measures and speak up for the Free Market, you'll be labored a 'dissenter', 'traitor', as "unpatriotic' and whatever else they can pull out of their collective @$$.

I put a poll up on another forum on people's opinion of what government should do...I put forth the situation as well--not surprisingly the majority favored the government taking food from those who prepared...a number ridiculed me that I even dare call the action "evil".

[Indy4Chng]

Guaranteed anything statement with the word "racist", "racism", etc! Great one!

[Fox McCloud]

"Oh, you're probably one of those stupid conservatives! Ugh, look where George Bush got us, why should we listen to you?"

[Indy4Chng]

"Oh, you're probably one of those stupid conservatives! Ugh, look where George Bush got us, why should we listen to you?"

Nice! :D:D

[electronicmaji]

I support Socialized Healthcare because its the only kind of Healthcare that works.

[Fox McCloud]

I support Socialized Healthcare because its the only kind of Healthcare that works.

blurting facts is nice, but providing evidence to support your thesis is way way better ;)

[krazy kaju]

Socialized health care as a moral right? The stupidity of that idea is beyond me, but you don't know how many times I've heard that. You can't have a positive right without deriving those rights from negative rights... the Catch-22 is that all positive rights inherently break your negative rights. Socialized health? You're going to tax (rob) others for that "right?"

Furthermore, I've never seen anyone be able to say where you get your right to socialized health from? If you view equality as the moral force that makes national health necessary, do you also believe that everyone should look the same, act the same, be of the same intelligence, be of the same strength, etc.? No, that is against nature. The only rights that can be derived are negative rights which are derived from your existence.

That is all.

[UnReconstructed]

"You want to be safe don't you?"

[MRoCkEd]

If we don't fight them over there, they will fight us over here
- every republican candidate besides rp

[electronicmaji]

blurting facts is nice, but providing evidence to support your thesis is way way better ;)

Show me one nation; one nation; that has a non socialized healthcare system; where 80% or more of the population is insured.

[Kludge]

Show me one nation; one nation; that has a non socialized healthcare system; where 80% or more of the population is insured.

Insurance is retarded.

I go to a doctor once maybe three times/year.

[noxagol]

Show me one nation; one nation; that has a non socialized healthcare system; where 80% or more of the population is insured.

Show me a true free-market health care system in a nation. Oh wait, you can't cause governments make such things impossible.

[Truth Warrior]

"Workers of the world unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains." :p:p

"The end justifies the means." :p:p:p:p:p

[AutoDas]

Show me one nation; one nation; that has a non socialized healthcare system; where 80% or more of the population is insured.

Number of insured or a "standard" that everyone has a right to "health care" (what is the minimal right to health care? there are thousands of diseases out there. government must discriminate for the 'common good') does not mean the quality is better. America has long had the best quality of health care AND everyone has access to it despite the governments belligerence into regulating insurance practices.

I used this before when I was mind numbing leftard.
"If you have nothing to hide, then why are you worried?"

[Truth Warrior]

"Health care" is NOT a human right, regardless of what ALL of the socialists SAY.

How to tell the difference, just ask the question, "At who's expense?"

[Kludge]

"At who's expense?"

It's free from the government, they just don't want to pass it because the rich feel that they are the only ones entitled to healthcare!

[Truth Warrior]

It's free from the government, they just don't want to pass it because the rich feel that they are the only ones entitled to healthcare! NOTHING from the government is "FREE" except TYRANNY!

[JosephTheLibertarian]

"if you don't, people will starve" <---if things get as bad or worse than the 30's Depression era, I almost guarantee this is what they'll print and put in newspapers to belittle those who prepared for the crash...once those people have been demonized, then nearly everyone will justify the government stealing other people's food, supplies, gold, etc.

the ads will feature emaciated people, sad looking children, and families who are absolutely destitute and broke...whether their plight has to do with the crash or not. It's also likely that if you oppose any socialist measures and speak up for the Free Market, you'll be labored a 'dissenter', 'traitor', as "unpatriotic' and whatever else they can pull out of their collective @$$.

I put a poll up on another forum on people's opinion of what government should do...I put forth the situation as well--not surprisingly the majority favored the government taking food from those who prepared...a number ridiculed me that I even dare call the action "evil".

lol. true.

btw. Sorry, I went to sleep while waiting for a reply in the chat in the early am.

[acptulsa]

"That principle doesn't apply because times have changed."

As if people are no longer people...

[Truth Warrior]

"It's different this time. No, I mean really." :rolleyes:

:D

[RockEnds]

Everyone has a right to health care, but not free health care. No one should be told they CAN'T seek help for a medical condition. They should be free to choose the type of health care they desire. The government has no right to restrict alternative medicine while mandating modern medicine.

But free health care is no more a right than free guns. We have a right to bear arms, but that doesn't mean the government is required to provide them.

[AmericaFyeah92]

"my fellow Americans..."

[tmosley]

Everyone has a right to health care, but not free health care. No one should be told they CAN'T seek help for a medical condition. They should be free to choose the type of health care they desire. The government has no right to restrict alternative medicine while mandating modern medicine.

But free health care is no more a right than free guns. We have a right to bear arms, but that doesn't mean the government is required to provide them.

This is the best comment I have read in some time.

Although I would ask this of Ron Paul supporters: what about emergency care? Does everyone have a right to that (for free). If you come in unconscious and they can't find money or an insurance card, should you be left to die if the bureaucrats don't want you to be treated? What if you did in fact have insurance, but they didn't find the card?

Assuming that 90% of those that came into the ER didn't have money to pay for treatment, but those people weren't turned away, wouldn't it be better to reduce costs by having free preventative maintenance (ie doctor visits) rather than waiting until the last minute and having it cost 10x more?

The healthcare issue is where libertarian philosophy seems the most cruel, and it's probably what turns a lot of people away. I for one would like to have a counter to that, or see some sort of consensus that says that government can fund some free preventative care for the poor, if for no other reason than to decrease overall health costs (because no-one would stand for having to pay BEFORE receiving treatment in an ER--you're fooling yourself if you think that any politician could survive the implementation of such a policy).

[RockEnds]

This is the best comment I have read in some time.

Although I would ask this of Ron Paul supporters: what about emergency care? Does everyone have a right to that (for free). If you come in unconscious and they can't find money or an insurance card, should you be left to die if the bureaucrats don't want you to be treated? What if you did in fact have insurance, but they didn't find the card?

Assuming that 90% of those that came into the ER didn't have money to pay for treatment, but those people weren't turned away, wouldn't it be better to reduce costs by having free preventative maintenance (ie doctor visits) rather than waiting until the last minute and having it cost 10x more?

The healthcare issue is where libertarian philosophy seems the most cruel, and it's probably what turns a lot of people away. I for one would like to have a counter to that, or see some sort of consensus that says that government can fund some free preventative care for the poor, if for no other reason than to decrease overall health costs (because no-one would stand for having to pay BEFORE receiving treatment in an ER--you're fooling yourself if you think that any politician could survive the implementation of such a policy).

Emergency care gets really complicated because of the relationship between the medical profession, insurance companies, and the government. The fire department doesn't ask for proof of home owners' insurance before they put out a fire. No, EMT's shouldn't be asking for insurance cards before they transport victims of an automobile accident. But defining an emergency could get a little tricky. A bad cold isn't an emergency.

As for non-emergencies, when I was a kid (not THAT many years ago :rolleyes:), doctors worked with patients. People traded medical care for goods or services. Of course, that would be an unforgivable sin nowadays. No one who was in need was turned away. There was always some way to work things out. The County had funds available if all else failed. They didn't even require that you sell your property and then wait X number of years. Hospitals were allowed to cut them a deal. None of this is possible anymore.

[yongrel]

"Hi, I'm running for office."

[Knightskye]

"We gotta fight 'em over there, so we don't have to do it over here."

Heck of a job they did the first time.

[Truth Warrior]

What's "cruel" about voluntary and private? :confused:

Do if you want to, don't if you don't, on a case by case basis. :)

[electronicmaji]

What's "cruel" about voluntary and private? :confused:

Do if you want to, don't if you don't, on a case by case basis. :)

The main problem here is that the 60 Million Americans uninsured are not uninsured because they don't want to be; they are uninsured because they can't afford insurance. They make too much for the goverment or charities to care; yet too little to actually be able to afford insurance.

A major problem with a completely free market is that the gap between the rich and the poor only goes up. Most nations with completely free markets have something like a 60% poverty rate. That means 60% of the nation can barely afford food; much less insurance.

No matter how free you make the insurance market; in a free market that insurance will still be far too expensive for 60% of the population.

In a completely free market; aka anarchy; nearly 200 million Americans would be without any sort of insurance.

I think people should still have choice; but the problem here is not that people don't want insurance; they simply can't afford that. And no amount of free market initiatives will change that.

[Truth Warrior]

The main problem here is that the 60 Million Americans uninsured are not uninsured because they don't want to be; they are uninsured because they can't afford insurance. They make too much for the goverment or charities to care; yet too little to actually be able to afford insurance.

A major problem with a completely free market is that the gap between the rich and the poor only goes up. Most nations with completely free markets have something like a 60% poverty rate. That means 60% of the nation can barely afford food; much less insurance.

No matter how free you make the insurance market; in a free market that insurance will still be far too expensive for 60% of the population.

In a completely free market; aka anarchy; nearly 200 million Americans would be without any sort of insurance.

I think people should still have choice; but the problem here is not that people don't want insurance; they simply can't afford that. And no amount of free market initiatives will change that.

Government BS for the last several DECADES is the PRIME reason for the unaffordable health care costs. Medicare, medicaid, VA admin, welfare, HMOs, bogus malpractice legislation, etc., etc., etc. The corrupt "systems" are all in place just BEGGING to be scammed and gamed.

I easily remember private health insurance "full family" coverage plans at $30 / month.

[electronicmaji]

Government BS for the last several DECADES is the PRIME reason for the unaffordable health care costs. Medicare, medicaid, VA admin, HMOs, bogus malpractice legislation, etc., etc., etc. The corrupt "systems" are all in place just BEGGING to be scammed and gamed.

I easily remember private health insurance "full family" coverage plans at $30 / month.

People wouldn't be able to afford that in a free market. In a free market 60% or more of the population would be under the poverty level.

More of the rise in prices is due to inflation and increasing cost of healthcare than goverment intervention imo.

[Kludge]

In a free market 60% or more of the population would be under the poverty level.

Where did you find that statistic???

[yongrel]

People wouldn't be able to afford that in a free market. In a free market 60% or more of the population would be under the poverty level.

More of the rise in prices is due to inflation and increasing cost of healthcare than goverment intervention imo.

And now you're just being stupid.

Go back to soverylonelysocialistsinbasementsforums.com

[Truth Warrior]

People wouldn't be able to afford that in a free market. In a free market 60% or more of the population would be under the poverty level.

More of the rise in prices is due to inflation and increasing cost of healthcare than goverment intervention imo.

Yeah right, the "free market" is just gonna KILL 60% of it's customers. :p :rolleyes: Inflation. talk to YOUR Fed about that one.

GET REAL!!!

[electronicmaji]

Where did you find that statistic???

I know about it. I actually lived in a free market country for 5 years.

There are major problems once you start removing regulation on the minimum wage. The average pay per job goes way down and companies pay as little as they want to. The working class begins to exist only to create items to fufill the desires of the ruling class; and a huge divide between the two develops.

[yongrel]

I know about it. I actually lived in a free market country for 5 years.

There are major problems once you start removing regulation on the minimum wage. The average pay per job goes way down and companies pay as little as they want to. The working class begins to exist only to create items to fufill the desires of the ruling class; and a huge divide between the two develops.

:rolleyes:

[Kludge]

I know about it. I actually lived in a free market country for 5 years.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!

AH-FUCKING-HA HA HA!

Get out.

[tmosley]

People wouldn't be able to afford that in a free market. In a free market 60% or more of the population would be under the poverty level.

More of the rise in prices is due to inflation and increasing cost of healthcare than goverment intervention imo.

The only reason those "free markets" have 60% below the poverty line is because they are racked by continuous civil conflict (I assume you are talking about Africa here), and their governments are run by thieving thugs. They aren't really free markets, its more like anarchy (the bad kind). The US had mostly free markets from the 1780's-1850's, and that was a period of enormous growth and prosperity--one that we are arguably still milking today, although that teat has about run dry.

Cost of health care goes up BECAUSE of government intervention, and laws shielding Big Pharma from the Free Market.

And to the person who asked, private pay systems are cruel because they give administrators and bureaucrats the ability to leave people dying on the doorstep of hospitals because it's cheaper that way (most doctors on the front lines would treat them for free if they could).

I am generally for a well run free preventative health care system because it we can't get rid of emergency care because we can't leave people dying in the streets (it also creates nasty feedback mechanisms much like drug addiction--you do anything you can to get the money for the doctor, including slitting stranger's throats). It's cheaper to provide preventative care than emergency care, so if you are going to do one, you might as well do the other in order to save yourself some money.

I don't like it, but logic seems to dictate that such a system is necessary. If anyone has a better idea, I would love to hear it.

[Truth Warrior]

"FREE markets" don't have minimum wages.

That's jusrt MORE bogus "mixed economy" crap! AKA socialism. :rolleyes: :p

[noxagol]

electronicmaji, do you just make this stuff up as you go along?

[electronicmaji]

The only reason those "free markets" have 60% below the poverty line is because they are racked by continuous civil conflict (I assume you are talking about Africa here), and their governments are run by thieving thugs. They aren't really free markets, its more like anarchy (the bad kind). The US had mostly free markets from the 1780's-1850's, and that was a period of enormous growth and prosperity--one that we are arguably still milking today, although that teat has about run dry.

Cost of health care goes up BECAUSE of government intervention, and laws shielding Big Pharma from the Free Market.

And to the person who asked, private pay systems are cruel because they give administrators and bureaucrats the ability to leave people dying on the doorstep of hospitals because it's cheaper that way (most doctors on the front lines would treat them for free if they could).

I am generally for a well run free preventative health care system because it we can't get rid of emergency care because we can't leave people dying in the streets (it also creates nasty feedback mechanisms much like drug addiction--you do anything you can to get the money for the doctor, including slitting stranger's throats). It's cheaper to provide preventative care than emergency care, so if you are going to do one, you might as well do the other in order to save yourself some money.

I don't like it, but logic seems to dictate that such a system is necessary. If anyone has a better idea, I would love to hear it.


Most posters here think true free markets *ARE* anarchy.

Also I'm not talking about Africa.

[acptulsa]

I know about it. I actually lived in a free market country for 5 years.

And does this mythical free market country happen to have a name? Just because you assert vaguaries with obvious earnestness does not mean you make one bit more sense than Dubya.

[electronicmaji]

electronicmaji, do you just make this stuff up as you go along?

Not at all, I speak from experience; I have visited over 30 countries in my life.

[Kludge]

Most posters here think true free markets *ARE* anarchy.

EMI, not that I agree or disagree with what you posted, but what do you believe a free market *IS*?

[yongrel]

Not at all, I speak from experience; I have visited over 30 countries in my life.

http://www.forumammo.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10063/RonaldMcGTFO.jpg

[tmosley]

Not at all, I speak from experience; I have visited over 30 countries in my life.

Then name the country.

[Kludge]

Not at all, I speak from experience; I have visited over 30 countries in my life.

Are there really that many in World of Warcraft?


What country did you come from with a free market?

[Truth Warrior]

Most posters here think true free markets *ARE* anarchy.

Also I'm not talking about Africa.
Nope, just get government OUT of the economy. They ONLY screw things up ALWAYS. :p :rolleyes:

[acptulsa]

I have visited over 30 countries in my life.

Oh, well, hell--put him in charge of the Federal Reserve! Or does this wealth of formal education overqualify him?

[electronicmaji]

Then name the country.

I have visited the following nations with free market economies; Colombia, Peru, Chile, Costa Rica, Barbados, Nicaragua, Mexico, and Jamaica.

[Indy4Chng]

I used this before when I was mind numbing leftard.
"If you have nothing to hide, then why are you worried?"

I used it before too, when I was a mind numbing neocon. The biggest bunch of BS that ever came out of my mouth.

[yongrel]

I have visited the following nations with free market economies; Colombia, Peru, Chile, Costa Rica, Barbados, Nicaragua, Mexico, and Jamaica.

http://www.lafferty.ca/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/fail-24.jpg

[electronicmaji]

EMI, not that I agree or disagree with what you posted, but what do you believe a free market *IS*?

A free market is a economic scene that involve no goverment involvement; neither incentives nor standardization. No minimum wage; etc.

All the countries I listed fit within those boundaries; and all those countries have big poverty issues; while maintaining very rich upper classes that manages all the money that buy the goods that those lower classes make.

[tmosley]

Wow, eight countries that are almost entirely made out of corrupt government officials. I don't know about Peru or Chile, but the others are pretty bad from a free market/personal freedoms front.

[yongrel]

All the countries I listed fit within those boundaries; and all those countries have big poverty issues; while maintaining very rich upper classes that manages all the money that buy the goods that those lower classes make.

Come back here when you know what you are talking about.

Until then, GTFO.

[Truth Warrior]

I have visited the following nations with free market economies; Colombia, Peru, Chile, Costa Rica, Barbados, Nicaragua, Mexico, and Jamaica. There are NO "free market" economies in this "statist" world.

Governments screw with them ALL. :rolleyes: :p

[Kludge]

I have visited the following nations with free market economies; Colombia, Peru, Chile, Costa Rica, Barbados, Nicaragua, Mexico, and Jamaica.

Instead of disproving them all one-by-one, care to put your confidence behind one to save both of us time?

[Truth Warrior]

A free market is a economic scene that involve no goverment involvement; neither incentives nor standardization. No minimum wage; etc.

All the countries I listed fit within those boundaries; and all those countries have big poverty issues; while maintaining very rich upper classes that manages all the money that buy the goods that those lower classes make.
2/3 of the economy is consumer spending. Mostly the "middle" class. Now also coming under government attack. :p :rolleyes:

[tmosley]

There are NO "free market" economies in this "statist" world.

Governments screw with them ALL. :rolleyes: :p

Well, there's always Liechtenstein.

[electronicmaji]

Wow, eight countries that are almost entirely made out of corrupt government officials. I don't know about Peru or Chile, but the others are pretty bad from a free market/personal freedoms front.

Anarchy and free markets lead to companies taking control of the goverment. In a free market companies have all the powers and the freedom to do what they want.

[Imperial]

I actually do believe in moral obligation, but I believe it is largely misused.

[yongrel]

Anarchy and free markets lead to companies taking control of the goverment. In a free market companies have all the powers and the freedom to do what they want.

Were you sent here to deliberately be a parody?

[Kludge]

Anarchy and free markets lead to companies taking control of the goverment.

You have to be a straw man.

[Truth Warrior]

Well, there's always Liechtenstein. Major product, postage stamps AKA government. ;) All 12 of them. :D

[electronicmaji]

No, I'm saying that these countries all have free markets; those free markets involve big companies paying the goverment to let them infringe on the rights of common citizens.

[Kludge]

No, I'm saying that these countries all have free markets; those free markets involve big companies paying the goverment to let them infringe on the rights of common citizens.

So you're saying they AREN'T free markets by YOUR OWN definition?

Let's refresh:


A free market is a economic scene that involve no goverment involvement; neither incentives nor standardization. No minimum wage; etc.

[tmosley]

Anarchy and free markets lead to companies taking control of the goverment. In a free market companies have all the powers and the freedom to do what they want.

One can have a free market and a strong government at the same time. The government simply doesn't intervene in economic issues, save perhaps for issuing currency and regulating foreign trade.

In a free market, businesses have the power to operate as they wish while OBEYING THE LAWS OF THE LAND. When the government intervenes to shield that business from liability (legal or otherwise) you no longer have a free market. If the government gets tangled up with business interests, then it is by definition no longer a free market.

[Truth Warrior]

No, I'm saying that these countries all have free markets; those free markets involve big companies paying the goverment to let them infringe on the rights of common citizens.
See, government ALWAYS screws things up. :rolleyes:

[Indy4Chng]

Emergency care gets really complicated because of the relationship between the medical profession, insurance companies, and the government. The fire department doesn't ask for proof of home owners' insurance before they put out a fire. No, EMT's shouldn't be asking for insurance cards before they transport victims of an automobile accident. But defining an emergency could get a little tricky. A bad cold isn't an emergency.

As for non-emergencies, when I was a kid (not THAT many years ago :rolleyes:), doctors worked with patients. People traded medical care for goods or services. Of course, that would be an unforgivable sin nowadays. No one who was in need was turned away. There was always some way to work things out. The County had funds available if all else failed. They didn't even require that you sell your property and then wait X number of years. Hospitals were allowed to cut them a deal. None of this is possible anymore.

That's a great idea!!! Maybe the best I have heard. Why can't it work like the fire department? Take insurance billing out of it and it would become a lot cheaper. The problem does that mean the government now runs the emergency rooms? How do we currently handle false 9-11 calls? There are some kinks to be worked out but it sure seems like the best idea I have heard. It would benefit all society including the rich and poor, cause both have emergencies unlike socialized healthcare which is stealing certain property and giving to another. I think small "l" libertarians could buy into it.

[yongrel]

No, I'm saying that these countries all have free markets; those free markets involve big companies paying the goverment to let them infringe on the rights of common citizens.

You sir, are a fool. You have no understanding of what constitutes a free market, nor do you possess any real knowledge of the countries you claim to be so intimately familiar with.

Your tired and flawed arguments bore me, and your assumed arrogance irritates me.

All in all, I have grown tired of you. Get the fuck out.

[Truth Warrior]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/Socialism_by_miniamericanflags.jpg

[acptulsa]

Anarchy and free markets lead to companies taking control of the goverment.

What government? Take nothing over, and what the hell do you have?

[Fox McCloud]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/Socialism_by_miniamericanflags.jpg

I love that picture---so often you see the opposite one (the capitalist holding a gun to the socialist head).

In actually, this picture you provided is far more accurate.

[electronicmaji]

So you're saying they AREN'T free markets by YOUR OWN definition?

Let's refresh:

The goverment isn't involved; the Companies take control of the goverment illegally. Simple as that; companies will always take control of the goverment in a free market; unless you make it illegal; and then thats no longer a free makrket anymore huh?

[yongrel]

The goverment isn't involved; the Companies take control of the goverment illegally. Simple as that; companies will always take control of the goverment in a free market; unless you make it illegal; and then thats no longer a free makrket anymore huh?

http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/militia-fail.jpg

[acptulsa]

The goverment isn't involved; the Companies take control of the goverment illegally. Simple as that; companies will always take control of the goverment in a free market; unless you make it illegal; and then thats no longer a free makrket anymore huh?

The government has to be on the market for the market to be free?

God I'm glad I don't have any abdominal stitches right now!!

[electronicmaji]

What government? Take nothing over, and what the hell do you have?

They will create a goverment if they have too. I've seen many cases where companies within anarchy create their own police forces to fulfill their own laws.

[yongrel]

They will create a goverment if they have too. I've seen many cases where companies within anarchy create their own police forces to fulfill their own laws.

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/mux/fail5.jpg

[Truth Warrior]

One can have a free market and a strong government at the same time. The government simply doesn't intervene in economic issues, save perhaps for issuing currency and regulating foreign trade.

In a free market, businesses have the power to operate as they wish while OBEYING THE LAWS OF THE LAND. When the government intervenes to shield that business from liability (legal or otherwise) you no longer have a free market. If the government gets tangled up with business interests, then it is by definition no longer a free market.
Why even currency and foreign trade? Rife and just BEGGING for corruption TOO. :p Who just "MADE UP" Globalization? :p :rolleyes:

[Indy4Chng]

lol. true.

btw. Sorry, I went to sleep while waiting for a reply in the chat in the early am.

Ok.... you may need help. :) Falling asleep on RonPaul chat may qualify as an obsesion. :D

[Kludge]

I've seen many cases where companies within anarchy create their own police forces to fulfill their own laws.

ORLY? Name one occasion with a citation from a reputable source (no, you don't count).

[Truth Warrior]

They will create a goverment if they have too. I've seen many cases where companies within anarchy create their own police forces to fulfill their own laws.
ANARCHY where? :p :rolleyes:

[Kludge]

ANARCHY where? :p :rolleyes:

Anarchy in the U.K. :p

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Sexpistolsemianarchysingle.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Sexpistolsemianarchysingle.jpg)

How ironic...

[Truth Warrior]

If it ain't PURE RED, it's anarchy. Right? :rolleyes: :p

[Truth Warrior]

Anarchy in the U.K. :p

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Sexpistolsemianarchysingle.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Sexpistolsemianarchysingle.jpg)

How ironic...
Did the Queen die? :p

[acptulsa]

Folks, don't let this typing stereotype fool you. There are people in Arkansas capable of communicating coherent thoughts.

[electronicmaji]

ANARCHY where? :p :rolleyes:

Considering a good amount of people on here are Anarcho Capitalists; everywhere.


Eitherway; the only way to provide coverage to everyone who works is socialized healthcare; that simple.

[tmosley]

Why even currency and foreign trade? Rife and just BEGGING for corruption TOO. :p Who just "MADE UP" Globalization? :p :rolleyes:

I don't know, the founders said it, and they seem like pretty smart guys.

But seriously, foreign trade needs some element of regulation since without it you may quickly find your nation a harbor for pirates and criminals and such. The government keeps you from exploiting foreigners (at least when it is too much) and keeps them from exploiting you. They can also shield against dumping and such.

Trade within a nation is greatly simplified by having a unified currency. This does not preclude having competing currencies, so long as at least some are backed by real money (and you can flee to them in times of trouble ie I wish I was being paid in gold dollars right now).

[Kludge]

Considering a good amount of people on here are Anarcho Capitalists; everywhere.


Eitherway; the only way to provide coverage to everyone who works is socialized healthcare; that simple.

"Good amount"? I doubt even 10% of this libertarian-conservative movement are an-caps (Your answer was an evasion BTW. *WE* don't live in our own fantasy lands.)

The only way to provide food for everyone who works is socialized food. What's your point?

[yongrel]

Considering a good amount of people on here are Anarcho Capitalists; everywhere.


Eitherway; the only way to provide coverage to everyone who works is socialized healthcare; that simple.

http://www.ratemyeverything.net/image/7732/0/Cat_FAIL.ashx

[electronicmaji]

"Good amount"? I doubt even 10% of this libertarian-conservative movement are an-caps.

The only way to provide food for everyone who works is socialized food. What's your point?

Hardly, food is not nearly as expensive as healthcare.

[Indy4Chng]

The main problem here is that the 60 Million Americans uninsured are not uninsured because they don't want to be; they are uninsured because they can't afford insurance. They make too much for the goverment or charities to care; yet too little to actually be able to afford insurance.

A major problem with a completely free market is that the gap between the rich and the poor only goes up. Most nations with completely free markets have something like a 60% poverty rate. That means 60% of the nation can barely afford food; much less insurance.

No matter how free you make the insurance market; in a free market that insurance will still be far too expensive for 60% of the population.

In a completely free market; aka anarchy; nearly 200 million Americans would be without any sort of insurance.

I think people should still have choice; but the problem here is not that people don't want insurance; they simply can't afford that. And no amount of free market initiatives will change that.


What exactly is insurance? What is don't have insurance? We insure everything in healthcare, can you imagine if gas was covered in auto insurance and all maintenance? What would the costs be? If it weren't for our currently screwed up system, which IMHO is due to the "need for insurance", healthcare would be very affordable. Watch the 20/20 program "Sick in America" to get some perspective outside of what Obama and the rest of the socialist politicians are feeding you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf3MtjMBWx4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpsEAVbCkMM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=refrYKq9tZQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzhiG0dcwN8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsp_Jh5EIT0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_KCLm9cekU&feature=related

[Truth Warrior]

Considering a good amount of people on here are Anarcho Capitalists; everywhere.


Eitherway; the only way to provide coverage to everyone who works is socialized healthcare; that simple.
Anarcho-capitalism involves ZERO government involvement. We ain't there by a very loooooog shot.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/Socialism_by_miniamericanflags.jpg

Just gonna kill the non-workers?

[acptulsa]

Considering a good amount of people on here are Anarcho Capitalists; everywhere.


Eitherway; the only way to provide coverage to everyone who works is socialized healthcare; that simple.

Present company excepted.

Maji, a buzzword label does not an anarchy make. And coverage is not more important than "healthcare". Or health care either, for that matter.

[yongrel]

Hardly, food is not nearly as expensive as healthcare.

You ever eaten caviar? How bout truffles? Course not! The elites have stolen it from you!

SOCIALIZE CAVIAR AND TRUFFLES!

[Kludge]

Hardly, food is not nearly as expensive as healthcare.

Doesn't matter. It isn't guaranteed unless we socialize it with coercive taxation to make sure it's paid for.

We also need socialized water and definitely socialized housing (houses are more expensive then a doctor visit IIRC)

[tmosley]

Doesn't matter. It isn't guaranteed unless we socialize it with coercive taxation to make sure it's paid for.

We also need socialized water and definitely socialized housing (houses are more expensive then a doctor visit IIRC)

Most cities already have socialized housing. It tends to not work out well. If you want to see an example, go out to the nearest MLK Street and look around.

[electronicmaji]

Anarcho-capitalism involves ZERO government involvement. We ain't there by a very loooooog shot.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/Socialism_by_miniamericanflags.jpg

Just gonna kill the non-workers?

And if there are not goverments the company will make their own services to model goverment, including and not limited to military complexes and police forces to enforce their own laws; which might include; BUY OUR PRODUCTS OR ELSE.

[yongrel]

And if there are not goverments the company will make their own services to model goverment, including and not limited to military complexes and police forces to enforce their own laws; which might include; BUY OUR PRODUCTS OR ELSE.

http://www.marcofolio.net/images/stories/fun/imagedump/demotivational_posters/fail.jpg

[electronicmaji]

Doesn't matter. It isn't guaranteed unless we socialize it with coercive taxation to make sure it's paid for.

We also need socialized water and definitely socialized housing (houses are more expensive then a doctor visit IIRC)

The difference is that stuff doesn't work. Socialized healthcare is in fact the only system that works. Scientifically so. Eitherways; you're using logical fallacies to make arguements.

[acptulsa]

And if there are not goverments the company will make their own services to model goverment, including and not limited to military complexes and police forces to enforce their own laws; which might include; BUY OUR PRODUCTS OR ELSE.

Funny, but I just can't remember the last time Coke had a civil war with Pepsi to see who gets to run Belize... :rolleyes:

[Truth Warrior]

You ever eaten caviar? How bout truffles? Course not! The elites have stolen it from you!

SOCIALIZE CAVIAR AND TRUFFLES!
Yep, I've eaten them both, as a guest at a capitalist's party. :D Yum!


I only got raw turnip chunks at the BYOB socialist's party. YECH! :p :rolleyes:

[acptulsa]

The difference is that stuff doesn't work. Socialized healthcare is in fact the only system that works. Scientifically so. Eitherways; you're using logical fallacies to make arguements.

And you're misspelling arguments, in addition to offering none of substance. Scientifically so, you say? That Newton's Fourth Law?

[yongrel]

This Thread Is Now About "Reasons Why ElectronicMaji joined RPF"

Reason #1: He is lonely. So very, very lonely.

Continue...

[Kludge]

Socialized healthcare is in fact the only system that works. Scientifically so.

Where's your scientifical data?

[Truth Warrior]

The difference is that stuff doesn't work. Socialized healthcare is in fact the only system that works. Scientifically so. Eitherways; you're using logical fallacies to make arguements.
What planet are you posting from? :rolleyes:

[Kludge]

And you're misspelling arguments, in addition to offering none of substance. Scientifically so, you say? That Newton's Fourth Law?

I corrected him ~1 hour ago in a separate thread too...

[acptulsa]

Continue...

He's just a Lou Costello who went in search of a Bud Abbot--and found about a dozen.

[electronicmaji]

I give up, you people are unable to do anything but troll. Very kindly fuck yourselves.

[Truth Warrior]

Shrink the BIG TENT! ;)

[yongrel]

i give up, you people are unable to do anything but troll. Very kindly fuck yourselves.

gtfo

[acptulsa]

I give up, you people are unable to do anything but troll.

Now we're trolling our own forum. Damn we're good!

[Truth Warrior]

I give up, you people are unable to do anything but troll. Very kindly fuck yourselves.
Says the RED Obama troll. :p

[Truth Warrior]

next! :D

[acptulsa]

Shrink the BIG TENT! ;)

And get our entertainment where? The Comedy Channel's got nothing on this!

[Kludge]

I give up, you people are unable to do anything but troll. Very kindly fuck yourselves.

If you killed yourself, you'd make me feel sad and guilty. Just throwing that out there.

[electronicmaji]

I would never kill myself. The idea is absurd. I am not anymore lonely then the average single guy; so very kindly fuck the hell off and stop referencing my personal life.

[Truth Warrior]

And get our entertainment where? The Comedy Channel's got nothing on this!
Just a waste of space and time. :p

[Truth Warrior]

I would never kill myself. The idea is absurd. I am not anymore lonely then the average single guy; so very kindly fuck the hell off and stop referencing my personal life.
Maybe "socialized" medicine will do it for you, only if you're a worker that is. ;)

[Kludge]

I would never kill myself. The idea is absurd. I am not anymore lonely then the average single guy; so very kindly fuck the hell off and stop referencing my personal life.

I was referencing to my own life, Wes.

http://media.steampowered.com/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/42/42288f221744f3499bde7a0cd05ffec8507bbb33_full.jpg

[acptulsa]

so very kindly... stop referencing my personal life.

Yeah--it makes about as much sense as taking over the government of an anarchy.

[Indy4Chng]

Wow... did this thread get off track. :)

I heard this comment yesterday and I about lost it from a co-worker:

"You really want to trust a 200 year old piece of paper":mad::mad::mad:

[Truth Warrior]

Wow... did this thread get off track. :)

I heard this comment yesterday and I about lost it from a co-worker:

"You really want to trust a 200 year old piece of paper":mad::mad::mad:

It's better than a 160 year old "Communist Manifesto". :p

[yongrel]

ElectronicMaji has his own myobama page:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/dashboard/public/CvHD

[Kludge]

He's also been trolling since 2003 (and on a Christian Anime forum...)

http://www.christiananime.net/archive/index.php/t-705.html

Wesley is "Ashley". I think he was... 14-15 when posting there, posing as "the leader of a forum testing site".

[acptulsa]

"You really want to trust a 200 year old piece of paper":mad::mad::mad:

Tried, tested and true means nothing any more?

[electronicmaji]

He's also been trolling since 2003 (and on a Christian Anime forum...)

http://www.christiananime.net/archive/index.php/t-705.html

Wesley is "Ashley". I think he was... 14-15 when posting there, posing as "the leader of a forum testing site".

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

I'm not a troll. And yes I support Obama. simple as that.

[Danke]

ElectronicMaji has his own myobama page:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/dashboard/public/CvHD

And a friend:

"Location: Garfield, Arkansas
Why I support Barack Obama: It is time for a change in our country. Change that focuses on what is best for ALL of our country, not what is blue or red, black or white, rich or poor. Fresh ideas from a fresh perspective"

[yongrel]

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

I'm not a troll. And yes I support Obama. simple as that.

Such a troll. You're just a troll who forgot that the internet leaves a "paper" trail. Dummy.

[Kludge]

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

I'm not a troll.

:rolleyes:

[acptulsa]

I'm not a troll. And yes I support Obama. simple as that.

O.K., folks. Now we know. Ron Paul supporters are trolling ronpaulforums.com and Obama supporters aren't. Remember that!

[Truth Warrior]

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.

I'm not a troll. And yes I support Obama. simple as that.
On the RPF that's a troll, simple as that. :rolleyes: :p

[Kludge]

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit.


Ahhh... Okay. You are right and I am wrong. "Ashley" quoted you and didn't use quotation marks... Let's check you out. :)

Wes is "ChristianOtaku", the member banned.

"the catholics are wrong!!!

THEY believe in the prugatory but if purgatory exists why the heck did jesus come to earth and die on the cross?

was it not to clean us of our sins and allow us to enter heaven?

if purgatory exists then what was the purpose of jesus coming to earth"

Cute.

[electronicmaji]

I've been around here far too long to be a troll...and yes back then I even support Socialized Healthcare.

There will never be a candidate someone agrees with 100% on everything. Just accept it people.

[yongrel]

I've been around here far too long to be a troll...and yes back then I even support Socialized Healthcare.

There will never be a candidate someone agrees with 100% on everything. Just accept it people.

Length of stay does not equal legitimacy. GTFO and go back to your anime porn.

[Truth Warrior]

I've been around here far too long to be a troll...and yes back then I even support Socialized Healthcare.

There will never be a candidate someone agrees with 100% on everything. Just accept it people. Socialists agree with RP on NOTHING!!! :rolleyes: :p

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

There will never be a candidate someone agrees with 100% on everything.

+1

[Danke]

Length of stay does not equal legitimacy. GTFO and go back to your anime porn.

I was hoping he'd post a little more before he gets banned...:o

[yongrel]

"wolfs are less sexy than fox so shes a fox in my mind...or else I wouldn't be attracted to her..."

-Electronicmaji

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1353353#post1353353

[acptulsa]

I've been around here far too long to be a troll.

Is this based on your experience as a moderator who was far more intolerant than ours?

[electronicmaji]

Socialists agree with RP on NOTHING!!! :rolleyes: :p

I'm not a Socialist. I'm a Social Libertarian.

[electronicmaji]

"wolfs are less sexy than fox so shes a fox in my mind...or else I wouldn't be attracted to her..."

-Electronicmaji

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1353353#post1353353

You do realize Electronicmaji is not something I made up? It's a character in futurama and could belong to thousands of forum members that I have no relationship to.

[yongrel]

I'm not a Socialist. I'm a Social Libertarian.

You're a damn fool.

[Kludge]

Wesley Useche Says:
May 29th, 2008 You act like the smell of chicken turds is a bad thing, but for us coprophiliac’s it’s heaven.

http://www.fayettevilleflyer.com/2008/05/28/the-horse-at-northwest-arkansas-florists/


This is probably more fun for me then it ought to be...

[yongrel]

"Ok I'm a single, virgin, 18 year old, eligible bachelor, geek/nerd/ genius. I really need to get laid. Find my SD on dating sites or something ;).

That is your mission! :lol:"

-Electronicmaji

http://www.thedailydeals.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-657335.html

[electronicmaji]

Wesley Useche Says:
May 29th, 2008 You act like the smell of chicken turds is a bad thing, but for us coprophiliac’s it’s heaven.

http://www.fayettevilleflyer.com/2008/05/28/the-horse-at-northwest-arkansas-florists/


This is probably more fun for me then it ought to be...

It was a joke; jesus. :D

[Truth Warrior]

I'm not a Socialist. I'm a Social Libertarian.
BS! Another bogus "made up" oxymoronic label, like Atheist Theist.

[acptulsa]

I'm not a Socialist. I'm a Social Libertarian.

Fail again. You just pounced on a hijack to promote socialized health care as the only possible solution for page after page.

And--how to say this without violating guidelines?--if you didn't know what you were letting yourself in for, then you are an idiot.

[Kludge]

Hmmm... Trevor Lyman has an account here???

SwordOfShannarah
01-20-2008, 11:21 PM

Trevor Lyman,

Thank you very much for your donation of $xxx.xx to the Ron Paul 2008 Presidential Campaign.

Your donation will allow us to expand and grow our campaign.

We depend on donors like you to help us spread the message of freedom, peace and prosperity through Ron Paul’s candidacy.

Thanks for being a part of the campaign!

Your confirmation number:
T336085-111645474

[Danke]

"Ok I'm a single, virgin, 18 year old, eligible bachelor, geek/nerd/ genius. I really need to get laid.


We have two of them on RPF? We are truly blessed!!

[electronicmaji]

BS! Another bogus "made up" oxymoronic label, like Atheist Theist.

Actually Atheist Theists are called Deists and most of our founding fathers were Deists. Eitherways I am a Social Libertarian. Say what you want of it.

[yongrel]

We have two of them on RPF? We are truly blessed!!

I think we need to introduce electronicmaji to Raditude. Love at first keystroke.

[yongrel]

Actually Atheist Theists are called Deists.

That is unquestionably the dumbest thing I have read for a long while. Congratulations.

[tmosley]

Guys, you are trolling. Just because someone has an opposing point of view doesn't mean they should "GTFO", or even that they "FAIL". Nor does someone's "sexuality" have anything to do with the validity of their political beliefs (is furry a sexuality? I myself am a firm believer of yiffing in hellism). Personal attacks certainly aren't going to help anyone over to our side. I have to assume that maji agrees with some portion of RP's ideology, or he wouldn't be here.

But then, I suppose looking for a place where one can carry out a civil discussion with someone of an opposing viewpoint on the internet is pretty tough.

Edit: And seriously, what would you guys prefer, a social libertarian that disagrees with you on just a few issues, or a statist that wants to take everything you have and redistribute it to the poor/government employees/corporations? Someone having a minutely different political ideology shouldn't trigger such an intense flame war. Either debate, agree to disagree, or get the fuck out.

[Kludge]

Electronicmaji: im tired of people attacking Bush
Electronicmaji: and im tired of everyone being a republicans enemy
Duke Von Cheesus: Well if Bush wasn't such a moron I would understand it.
Electronicmaji: its getting to the point where you cant even stand up for your rights anymore without being called a racist homophobic pig
Electronicmaji: I dont beleive Bush is a moron
Duke Von Cheesus: Besides when Clinton was in office all the conservatives did was bitch.
Electronicmaji: I met the man
Electronicmaji: and trust me hes not a moron
Electronicmaji: heck
Electronicmaji: even us far right
Electronicmaji: dont agree with everything he does
Electronicmaji: conservatives bitched in the senate
Electronicmaji: not in forums
Electronicmaji: not in underground movements
Electronicmaji: not in public
Electronicmaji: it wasnt most of the common man bitching
Electronicmaji: it was mostly the senate and house of representatives
Duke Von Cheesus: So? Common men should be allowed to have a say in the matter.
Electronicmaji: and I beleive that
Electronicmaji: but they push themselves
Electronicmaji: to make themselves look like they are common men
Electronicmaji: tell me this
Electronicmaji: do you think that the common man
Electronicmaji: is a liberal bush hater
Electronicmaji: who thinks 9/11 was caused by him
Duke Von Cheesus: Do you think that's what I am suggesting?
Duke Von Cheesus: I know a lot about politics. I've written plenty of essays and done plenty of research.
Electronicmaji: im a right extremist
Duke Von Cheesus: I am on nither side. I'm not a liberal and I'm not a conservative.
Electronicmaji: and I wont tell you that I am not
Electronicmaji: thats just the way I lean
Electronicmaji: ive experienced enought
Electronicmaji: to know where my loyalties lie
----


Okay, that's pretty bad, but it gets worse:


----
Duke Von Cheesus: I think both the parties are run by rich men who want to control the rest of the population and do a lot of pandering and lying to convince all you that they are doing it for the greater good.
Electronicmaji: see
Electronicmaji: that
Electronicmaji: I dont buy into it
Electronicmaji: I beleive the liberals
Duke Von Cheesus: If you want to apply a label you could call me a socialist.
Electronicmaji: are probably
Electronicmaji: the richest of them all
Electronicmaji: and when I look at the liberal states
Electronicmaji: new york, california, etc etc..
Electronicmaji: Democratic to be exact
Electronicmaji: I see big cities
Electronicmaji: home to the biggest media networks
Electronicmaji: and to the richest people on this earth
Electronicmaji: with the most average money coming in
Electronicmaji: and when I look at most of the red states
Electronicmaji: they are mostly poor states
Electronicmaji: alabama
Electronicmaji: arkansas
Electronicmaji: loiusiana
Duke Von Cheesus: So, your argument is since rich people live in primarily democratic cities that makes them automatically democrats?
Electronicmaji: No im saying that rich people
Electronicmaji: naturally will vote for rich people
Electronicmaji: and rich people
Electronicmaji: live in liberal states
Electronicmaji: if conservatives change taxes
Electronicmaji: for in favor of the rich
Electronicmaji: why do the richest people on earth publically proclaim that they vote democrat
Duke Von Cheesus: That's just ignorant. You know who runs the media?
Electronicmaji: and why do the states with the highest amount of rich people
Electronicmaji: vote democrat
Electronicmaji: who cares who runs the media
Electronicmaji: its the people who work for the media
Electronicmaji: im interested
Electronicmaji: because they decide what the medias bias is going to be
Electronicmaji: and im a stone deaf
Electronicmaji: you telling me im ignorant
Duke Von Cheesus: The media promotes what sells. It's sensationalism that sells. That's why the news channels primarily consist of conservatives hosts and reporerts now.
Electronicmaji: wont do jack squidily dot for me
Electronicmaji: meh conservative
Duke Von Cheesus: I don't really care. Like I said before, that doesn't prove you are right to ignore arguments thrown at you.
----



Teh horror:


----
Duke Von Cheesus: The entire news media is biased, it's never been any different, that doesn't make your political philosophy more correct because the mean ol' news picks on your incompetent president.
Electronicmaji: incompetent
Electronicmaji: the only incompetent president
Duke Von Cheesus: All of them?
Electronicmaji: was mr clinton
Electronicmaji: Bush brings back old world politics
Duke Von Cheesus: Regan, Bush Sr., Clinton, Bush jr.
Electronicmaji: into a new world
Electronicmaji: and I like that
Duke Von Cheesus: Oh and that's a good thing I suppose. Yeah the old world went so well.
Duke Von Cheesus: What with the cold war, Vietnam, the two world wars and all.
Electronicmaji: Bush is in essence a reincarnation of george washington
----


Only a couple more, you've almost made it!


----
Electronicmaji: I beleive he is probably the greatest president there ever has been
Duke Von Cheesus: That's because you yourself have addmited two things to me in this conversations.
Duke Von Cheesus: 1) That you are deaf to any facts or arguments the opposition represents, and never could be convinced that he is wrong.
Duke Von Cheesus: 2) That you are close-minded and enjoy being that way.
Duke Von Cheesus: That's not exactly a very objective way of looking at the world.
Electronicmaji: hell yes
Electronicmaji: i am
Electronicmaji: I am open minded
Electronicmaji: to old world politics
Electronicmaji: new world politics
Duke Von Cheesus: Then that shows right there that your opinion can't be trusted on anything.
----

At this point I almost died...

---
Duke Von Cheesus: You can't prove anything you say.
Electronicmaji: I wis good men like george washington were running the nation
Duke Von Cheesus: What exactly are these "new world" politics you keep going on and on about?
Electronicmaji: liberalism
Electronicmaji: new world liberalism
Electronicmaji: the hippy movement
Electronicmaji: started by the evil communists
Electronicmaji: in the 70s
Duke Von Cheesus: It wasn't started by communists.
---

Then he started rambling about Vietnam:

---
Duke Von Cheesus: So basically, you are saying that Vietnam was right because a country choose to do something that we didn't agree with that was not going to hurt us and wasn't going to hurt our interests?
Electronicmaji: until some other country cant take up the same fight
Electronicmaji: or a international community that works
Electronicmaji: is developed
Duke Von Cheesus: That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life.
Electronicmaji: you dont know if it would hurt us
Electronicmaji: the vietnamese goverment
Electronicmaji: came to us for help
Electronicmaji: we gave them help
Electronicmaji: and that was right
Electronicmaji: and thats as far as I see it
Duke Von Cheesus: They attacked the north then asked for help!
Electronicmaji: you can think what you want
Duke Von Cheesus: Do you not know anything about history?
Electronicmaji: if they wanted to do it
Electronicmaji: then they could
Duke Von Cheesus: I KNOW it because it's a FACT.
Duke Von Cheesus: Facts are apparently not your friend.
----

The final assult....

----
Electronicmaji: bush is a hard working man
Electronicmaji: and he didnt make his money
Duke Von Cheesus: Ranting to me about how you are better than liberals or vice versa...
Electronicmaji: or take his daddies money
Electronicmaji: from slot machines
Electronicmaji: winning it
Duke Von Cheesus: Isn't going to do anything to me.
Duke Von Cheesus: Because I'm not on either side.
Electronicmaji: his family sent him into exile for a time
Electronicmaji: and he came back a changed man
Electronicmaji: and he started from the bottom up
Duke Von Cheesus: ...you are destined to waste countless hours fighting with liberals and they with you, and you know what?
Electronicmaji: and became succesful all by himselful
Duke Von Cheesus: That's never going to change.
Electronicmaji: I never said I was better
Electronicmaji: but I said im tired of people painting the republican party
Electronicmaji: as a rich party
Duke Von Cheesus: He wasn't successful, all the companies he ran went bankrupt and he got a "C" average all through Yale.
Electronicmaji: stealing money from common joe
Duke Von Cheesus: That's because both political parties are rich.
Electronicmaji: becuas its not
Electronicmaji: rich because theve been around a long time
Electronicmaji: but besides that
Electronicmaji: the richest political partie
Electronicmaji: is not the republican one
Duke Von Cheesus: No it's just reducing wages, allowing corporations to pretty much do whatever they want, and so forth.
Electronicmaji: im tired of democrats acting like they represent the people
Electronicmaji: and
Electronicmaji: I dont think its wrong for coroporations to do what we want
Duke Von Cheesus: Is that why the republicans always raise more funds every election than the democrats?
Electronicmaji: workers have too many rights her
Duke Von Cheesus: Oh really.
Electronicmaji: way to many damn rights here
Electronicmaji: raise more funds
Electronicmaji: from common joe maybe
Duke Von Cheesus: No
Electronicmaji: haha
Duke Von Cheesus: Donated from Oil Comapnies, Military Contractors etc.
Electronicmaji: because theyve helped them out before
Electronicmaji: if youve ever lived in a third world countries
Electronicmaji: youll understand
Electronicmaji: how great we have it in america
Duke Von Cheesus: American oil companies and military contractors have nothing to do with the third world in most cases, unless we're talking about the middle east.
Electronicmaji: and until that day ill wait for you to come over and see the light
Electronicmaji: ive seen countries with democratic presidents
Electronicmaji: heck ive seen countries with no conservative party
Duke Von Cheesus: Yeah I'll see the light, if I get a lobotomy.
Electronicmaji: probably 90% of the nations are liberal and democratically controlled
Electronicmaji: and look at there economy
Electronicmaji: look at there workers rights
Duke Von Cheesus: Yeah, it's doing fine.
Duke Von Cheesus: A third world country by the way, means a country that isn't either communist or democratic. Some third world countries have poor economic development some don't. That is irrelevant to the definition.
Electronicmaji: im sure thats the way you speaked back when your a christian
Duke Von Cheesus: What the hell is that supposed to mean?
Electronicmaji: a third world country
Electronicmaji: means a country
Electronicmaji: that is in a state of econoic development
Electronicmaji: and political devolopement
Electronicmaji: and is not giving to other nations
Electronicmaji: instead is taking
Electronicmaji: from other nations
Electronicmaji: and is just begin to emerge self sufficient
Electronicmaji: Bush is one of the greatest man who will ever live
Electronicmaji: he will continue to be a idol
Electronicmaji: to young people who aspire to represent all americans
Electronicmaji: and with that ill say goodbye
Duke Von Cheesus: I was wondering if you'd ever shut up.

[electronicmaji]

Fail again. You just pounced on a hijack to promote socialized health care as the only possible solution for page after page.

And--how to say this without violating guidelines?--if you didn't know what you were letting yourself in for, then you are an idiot.

Yes, I support Socialized Healthcare. Thats does not make me not a Libertarian; the term is large and encompasses many ideals. From Noam Choamsky to Neal Boortz.

[acptulsa]

That is unquestionably the dumbest thing I have read for a long while. Congratulations.

What, you liked that idiocy better than Ron Paul supporters are the trolls at RPF and Obamanations aren't?

[Kludge]

Guys, you are trolling. Just because someone has an opposing point of view doesn't mean they should "GTFO", or even that they "FAIL". Nor does someone's "sexuality" have anything to do with the validity of their political beliefs (is furry a sexuality? I myself am a firm believer of yiffing in hellism). Personal attacks certainly aren't going to help anyone over to our side. I have to assume that maji agrees with some portion of RP's ideology, or he wouldn't be here.

But then, I suppose looking for a place where one can carry out a civil discussion with someone of an opposing viewpoint on the internet is pretty tough.

Did you read his arguments? They weren't coherent. He's experienced a free market? Puhleease.

[yongrel]

Yes, I support Socialized Healthcare. Thats does not make me not a Libertarian; the term is large and encompasses many ideals. From Noam Choamsky to Neal Boortz.

Every time you post, you reveal a new facet of your mind-numbing ignorance.

[electronicmaji]

Electronicmaji: im tired of people attacking Bush
Electronicmaji: and im tired of everyone being a republicans enemy
Duke Von Cheesus: Well if Bush wasn't such a moron I would understand it.
Electronicmaji: its getting to the point where you cant even stand up for your rights anymore without being called a racist homophobic pig
Electronicmaji: I dont beleive Bush is a moron
Duke Von Cheesus: Besides when Clinton was in office all the conservatives did was bitch.
Electronicmaji: I met the man
Electronicmaji: and trust me hes not a moron
Electronicmaji: heck
Electronicmaji: even us far right
Electronicmaji: dont agree with everything he does
Electronicmaji: conservatives bitched in the senate
Electronicmaji: not in forums
Electronicmaji: not in underground movements
Electronicmaji: not in public
Electronicmaji: it wasnt most of the common man bitching
Electronicmaji: it was mostly the senate and house of representatives
Duke Von Cheesus: So? Common men should be allowed to have a say in the matter.
Electronicmaji: and I beleive that
Electronicmaji: but they push themselves
Electronicmaji: to make themselves look like they are common men
Electronicmaji: tell me this
Electronicmaji: do you think that the common man
Electronicmaji: is a liberal bush hater
Electronicmaji: who thinks 9/11 was caused by him
Duke Von Cheesus: Do you think that's what I am suggesting?
Duke Von Cheesus: I know a lot about politics. I've written plenty of essays and done plenty of research.
Electronicmaji: im a right extremist
Duke Von Cheesus: I am on nither side. I'm not a liberal and I'm not a conservative.
Electronicmaji: and I wont tell you that I am not
Electronicmaji: thats just the way I lean
Electronicmaji: ive experienced enought
Electronicmaji: to know where my loyalties lie
----


Okay, that's pretty bad, but it gets worse:


----
Duke Von Cheesus: I think both the parties are run by rich men who want to control the rest of the population and do a lot of pandering and lying to convince all you that they are doing it for the greater good.
Electronicmaji: see
Electronicmaji: that
Electronicmaji: I dont buy into it
Electronicmaji: I beleive the liberals
Duke Von Cheesus: If you want to apply a label you could call me a socialist.
Electronicmaji: are probably
Electronicmaji: the richest of them all
Electronicmaji: and when I look at the liberal states
Electronicmaji: new york, california, etc etc..
Electronicmaji: Democratic to be exact
Electronicmaji: I see big cities
Electronicmaji: home to the biggest media networks
Electronicmaji: and to the richest people on this earth
Electronicmaji: with the most average money coming in
Electronicmaji: and when I look at most of the red states
Electronicmaji: they are mostly poor states
Electronicmaji: alabama
Electronicmaji: arkansas
Electronicmaji: loiusiana
Duke Von Cheesus: So, your argument is since rich people live in primarily democratic cities that makes them automatically democrats?
Electronicmaji: No im saying that rich people
Electronicmaji: naturally will vote for rich people
Electronicmaji: and rich people
Electronicmaji: live in liberal states
Electronicmaji: if conservatives change taxes
Electronicmaji: for in favor of the rich
Electronicmaji: why do the richest people on earth publically proclaim that they vote democrat
Duke Von Cheesus: That's just ignorant. You know who runs the media?
Electronicmaji: and why do the states with the highest amount of rich people
Electronicmaji: vote democrat
Electronicmaji: who cares who runs the media
Electronicmaji: its the people who work for the media
Electronicmaji: im interested
Electronicmaji: because they decide what the medias bias is going to be
Electronicmaji: and im a stone deaf
Electronicmaji: you telling me im ignorant
Duke Von Cheesus: The media promotes what sells. It's sensationalism that sells. That's why the news channels primarily consist of conservatives hosts and reporerts now.
Electronicmaji: wont do jack squidily dot for me
Electronicmaji: meh conservative
Duke Von Cheesus: I don't really care. Like I said before, that doesn't prove you are right to ignore arguments thrown at you.
----



Teh horror:


----
Duke Von Cheesus: The entire news media is biased, it's never been any different, that doesn't make your political philosophy more correct because the mean ol' news picks on your incompetent president.
Electronicmaji: incompetent
Electronicmaji: the only incompetent president
Duke Von Cheesus: All of them?
Electronicmaji: was mr clinton
Electronicmaji: Bush brings back old world politics
Duke Von Cheesus: Regan, Bush Sr., Clinton, Bush jr.
Electronicmaji: into a new world
Electronicmaji: and I like that
Duke Von Cheesus: Oh and that's a good thing I suppose. Yeah the old world went so well.
Duke Von Cheesus: What with the cold war, Vietnam, the two world wars and all.
Electronicmaji: Bush is in essence a reincarnation of george washington
----


Only a couple more, you've almost made it!


----
Electronicmaji: I beleive he is probably the greatest president there ever has been
Duke Von Cheesus: That's because you yourself have addmited two things to me in this conversations.
Duke Von Cheesus: 1) That you are deaf to any facts or arguments the opposition represents, and never could be convinced that he is wrong.
Duke Von Cheesus: 2) That you are close-minded and enjoy being that way.
Duke Von Cheesus: That's not exactly a very objective way of looking at the world.
Electronicmaji: hell yes
Electronicmaji: i am
Electronicmaji: I am open minded
Electronicmaji: to old world politics
Electronicmaji: new world politics
Duke Von Cheesus: Then that shows right there that your opinion can't be trusted on anything.
----

At this point I almost died...

---
Duke Von Cheesus: You can't prove anything you say.
Electronicmaji: I wis good men like george washington were running the nation
Duke Von Cheesus: What exactly are these "new world" politics you keep going on and on about?
Electronicmaji: liberalism
Electronicmaji: new world liberalism
Electronicmaji: the hippy movement
Electronicmaji: started by the evil communists
Electronicmaji: in the 70s
Duke Von Cheesus: It wasn't started by communists.
---

Then he started rambling about Vietnam:

---
Duke Von Cheesus: So basically, you are saying that Vietnam was right because a country choose to do something that we didn't agree with that was not going to hurt us and wasn't going to hurt our interests?
Electronicmaji: until some other country cant take up the same fight
Electronicmaji: or a international community that works
Electronicmaji: is developed
Duke Von Cheesus: That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life.
Electronicmaji: you dont know if it would hurt us
Electronicmaji: the vietnamese goverment
Electronicmaji: came to us for help
Electronicmaji: we gave them help
Electronicmaji: and that was right
Electronicmaji: and thats as far as I see it
Duke Von Cheesus: They attacked the north then asked for help!
Electronicmaji: you can think what you want
Duke Von Cheesus: Do you not know anything about history?
Electronicmaji: if they wanted to do it
Electronicmaji: then they could
Duke Von Cheesus: I KNOW it because it's a FACT.
Duke Von Cheesus: Facts are apparently not your friend.
----

The final assult....

----
Electronicmaji: bush is a hard working man
Electronicmaji: and he didnt make his money
Duke Von Cheesus: Ranting to me about how you are better than liberals or vice versa...
Electronicmaji: or take his daddies money
Electronicmaji: from slot machines
Electronicmaji: winning it
Duke Von Cheesus: Isn't going to do anything to me.
Duke Von Cheesus: Because I'm not on either side.
Electronicmaji: his family sent him into exile for a time
Electronicmaji: and he came back a changed man
Electronicmaji: and he started from the bottom up
Duke Von Cheesus: ...you are destined to waste countless hours fighting with liberals and they with you, and you know what?
Electronicmaji: and became succesful all by himselful
Duke Von Cheesus: That's never going to change.
Electronicmaji: I never said I was better
Electronicmaji: but I said im tired of people painting the republican party
Electronicmaji: as a rich party
Duke Von Cheesus: He wasn't successful, all the companies he ran went bankrupt and he got a "C" average all through Yale.
Electronicmaji: stealing money from common joe
Duke Von Cheesus: That's because both political parties are rich.
Electronicmaji: becuas its not
Electronicmaji: rich because theve been around a long time
Electronicmaji: but besides that
Electronicmaji: the richest political partie
Electronicmaji: is not the republican one
Duke Von Cheesus: No it's just reducing wages, allowing corporations to pretty much do whatever they want, and so forth.
Electronicmaji: im tired of democrats acting like they represent the people
Electronicmaji: and
Electronicmaji: I dont think its wrong for coroporations to do what we want
Duke Von Cheesus: Is that why the republicans always raise more funds every election than the democrats?
Electronicmaji: workers have too many rights her
Duke Von Cheesus: Oh really.
Electronicmaji: way to many damn rights here
Electronicmaji: raise more funds
Electronicmaji: from common joe maybe
Duke Von Cheesus: No
Electronicmaji: haha
Duke Von Cheesus: Donated from Oil Comapnies, Military Contractors etc.
Electronicmaji: because theyve helped them out before
Electronicmaji: if youve ever lived in a third world countries
Electronicmaji: youll understand
Electronicmaji: how great we have it in america
Duke Von Cheesus: American oil companies and military contractors have nothing to do with the third world in most cases, unless we're talking about the middle east.
Electronicmaji: and until that day ill wait for you to come over and see the light
Electronicmaji: ive seen countries with democratic presidents
Electronicmaji: heck ive seen countries with no conservative party
Duke Von Cheesus: Yeah I'll see the light, if I get a lobotomy.
Electronicmaji: probably 90% of the nations are liberal and democratically controlled
Electronicmaji: and look at there economy
Electronicmaji: look at there workers rights
Duke Von Cheesus: Yeah, it's doing fine.
Duke Von Cheesus: A third world country by the way, means a country that isn't either communist or democratic. Some third world countries have poor economic development some don't. That is irrelevant to the definition.
Electronicmaji: im sure thats the way you speaked back when your a christian
Duke Von Cheesus: What the hell is that supposed to mean?
Electronicmaji: a third world country
Electronicmaji: means a country
Electronicmaji: that is in a state of econoic development
Electronicmaji: and political devolopement
Electronicmaji: and is not giving to other nations
Electronicmaji: instead is taking
Electronicmaji: from other nations
Electronicmaji: and is just begin to emerge self sufficient
Electronicmaji: Bush is one of the greatest man who will ever live
Electronicmaji: he will continue to be a idol
Electronicmaji: to young people who aspire to represent all americans
Electronicmaji: and with that ill say goodbye
Duke Von Cheesus: I was wondering if you'd ever shut up.

Yeah, actually I'm also a ex-neocon. I've said that several times. :o

[Truth Warrior]

Fail again. You just pounced on a hijack to promote socialized health care as the only possible solution for page after page.

And--how to say this without violating guidelines?--if you didn't know what you were letting yourself in for, then you are an idiot.
I like, "Someone called you an idiot the other day, I didn't disagree". :D

[Kludge]

http://groups.teenhelp.org/archive/index.php?t-33577.html

" Im tired of keeping it in. (http://groups.teenhelp.org/showthread.php?t=33577) electronicmaji
November 9th, 2005, 08:46 PM

many of you are going to Hell God says and im sorry but it is the truth repent now of your sins before it is too late. The world is bound to hell and most of you with it this is your chance to change your ways and come to God and repent for your perverse and disgusting ways so please do it!

Im just crying about the state of perversness now I praying God well call you all to cleanse your souls and stop your perverse ways before its too late God loves you and will accept you and cleanse you if you come! Lord I pray that all in this forum will understand your love and understand that you died for their sins and that they are sinners I pray that you will call and cleanse them of their sins. Lord I pray for their lives and their souls. Amen."

[acptulsa]

The whole thing has left me speechless. But I bet I can dig up some more lighter fluid somewhere...

[Kludge]

electronicmaji (http://forums.animesuki.com/member.php?u=73876)
Banned

Join Date: Jan 2008
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.style/default/reputation/reputation_pos.gif


naked fox nekos make me randy.

[Truth Warrior]

Didn't he give up a few pages back? Just lying I guess. He has a real bright future in politics.<IMHO> Got the LYING part down pat. :rolleyes:

[Danke]

http://groups.teenhelp.org/archive/index.php?t-33577.html

" Im tired of keeping it in. (http://groups.teenhelp.org/showthread.php?t=33577) electronicmaji
November 9th, 2005, 08:46 PM

many of you are going to Hell God says and im sorry but it is the truth repent now of your sins before it is too late. The world is bound to hell and most of you with it this is your chance to change your ways and come to God and repent for your perverse and disgusting ways so please do it!

Im just crying about the state of perversness now I praying God well call you all to cleanse your souls and stop your perverse ways before its too late God loves you and will accept you and cleanse you if you come! Lord I pray that all in this forum will understand your love and understand that you died for their sins and that they are sinners I pray that you will call and cleanse them of their sins. Lord I pray for their lives and their souls. Amen."

Where do you find this stuff. Man, you're good! :D

[yongrel]

Where do you find this stuff. Man, you're good! :D

Google is your friend.

[Kludge]

http://www.dharmasecrets.com/forum/index.php?topic=3340.msg36779

"Hey you know this show is lacking man on man action...maybe hurley could go bi and him and sawyer could hook up if you know what I mean http://www.dharmasecrets.com/forum/Smileys/default/wink.gif"

[tmosley]

Did you read his arguments? They weren't coherent. He's experienced a free market? Puhleease.

No-one is right all of the time. That is no excuse for people digging up personal dirt on him or judging him based on what he used to be (a neocon). People change. Hell, I used to be a liberal, and I can sympathize with him because I came to libertarianism the same way he did, a slow but steady transition through liberal-libertarian, and now I stand near the edge of libertarianism (slightly toward the center--I don't believe everything should be privatized).

[Kludge]

"http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l91/DarkerDJ/PW%20Valentine/av-279.jpg

oh yes...massage my hemhroids..just like that.."

http://www.forums.court-records.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5529


Oh God, EMI. Tell me this one isn't you.

[electronicmaji]

Anyways; not all of those are me; fuck not 1/10th of them are me. There are plenty of people who use this nick who aren't me.

[Kludge]

No-one is right all of the time. That is no excuse for people digging up personal dirt on him or judging him based on what he used to be (a neocon). People change. Hell, I used to be a liberal, and I can sympathize with him because I came to libertarianism the same way he did, a slow but steady transition through liberal-libertarian, and now I stand near the edge of libertarianism (slightly toward the center--I don't believe everything should be privatized).

Maybe not right all of the time, but EMI has managed to contradict himself every other post, fail at English and show unprecedented arrogance in the process.

[yongrel]

Anyways; not all of those are me; fuck not 1/10th of them are me. There are plenty of people who use this nick who aren't me.

Suuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrreee. :rolleyes:

[Danke]

Anyways; not all of those are me; fuck not 1/10th of them are me. There are plenty of people who use this nick who aren't me.

Shit, I'd be looking for a new nickname. :eek:

[electronicmaji]

Suuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrreee. :rolleyes:

Believe what you want; its not like this stuff is wrong or illegal or anything. ;)

[Kludge]

electronicmaji
November 6th, 2005, 11:31 PM

Marijuana safer than alcohol? In your sick twisted dreams...its just rarer then alcohol..

electronicmaji
November 7th, 2005, 12:01 AM

i agree with you...i dont get how marijuana could be safer than alcohol...maybe its just in denver?

If everyone could smoke legally and they were all driving around highter I would easily see a highter rate of deaths from stoned drivers than from drunk ones as well...

http://groups.teenhelp.org/archive/index.php?t-33263.html

[Kludge]

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showpost.php?p=6723368&postcount=69

electronicmaji (http://www.serebiiforums.com/member.php?u=72476) http://www.serebiiforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif
Beginning Trainer
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3


http://www.serebiiforums.com/images/icons/icon1.gif
I'm looking for a gible egg/garchomp/anything in between. I got Infernape eggs,Mime Jr., Drillfloon, etc.
__________________
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/6713/wesleytrainercardis6.png
^Wesley

[electronicmaji]

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showpost.php?p=6723368&postcount=69

electronicmaji (http://www.serebiiforums.com/member.php?u=72476) http://www.serebiiforums.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif
Beginning Trainer
http://www.serebiiforums.com/images/ranks/beginner.png
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3


http://www.serebiiforums.com/gfx_RedWhiteBlue/icons/icon1.gif
I'm looking for a gible egg/garchomp/anything in between. I got Infernape eggs,Mime Jr., Drillfloon, etc.
__________________
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/6713/wesleytrainercardis6.png
^Wesley


God that team sucked so bad. Shit rocked though.

[tmosley]

Dude, there are 6800 hits on Google for that name. Do you really think they are all him? I certainly don't. It's irrelevant in any case. If I were a mod, I would ban most of you people for what you have done in this thread.

If you are going to debate someone, do so with the facts, not by silencing your opposition with embarrassing things that he may or may not have said.

[Truth Warrior]

No-one is right all of the time. That is no excuse for people digging up personal dirt on him or judging him based on what he used to be (a neocon). People change. Hell, I used to be a liberal, and I can sympathize with him because I came to libertarianism the same way he did, a slow but steady transition through liberal-libertarian, and now I stand near the edge of libertarianism (slightly toward the center--I don't believe everything should be privatized).What? :p :rolleyes:

A libertarian-statist ( oxymoron ) is just a statist. :p

[electronicmaji]

What? :p :rolleyes:

A libertarian-statist ( oxymoron ) is just a statist. :p

Libertarianism is not anti-statism; anarchy is. There are plenty of minarchist, conservatives, and socialists who are libertarians.

[Danke]

Dude, there are 6800 hits on Google for that name. Do you really think they are all him? I certainly don't. It's irrelevant in any case. If I were a mod, I would ban most of you people for what you have done in this thread.

If you are going to debate someone, do so with the facts, not by silencing your opposition with embarrassing things that he may or may not have said.

I kinda like your argument. Don't hold anyone (does this exclude politicians?) accountable as they can change. And change often.

[tmosley]

What? :p :rolleyes:

A libertarian-statist ( oxymoron ) is just a statist. :p

Who said anything about a libertarian-statist? I said that I USED TO BE a liberal, much like meji USED TO BE a neocon.

Only the fool never changes his mind. See President Bush, still pronouncing it nuke-u-lar.

"I kinda like your argument. Don't hold anyone (does this exclude politicians?) accountable as they can change. And change often."

You can't change every day, but life-altering changes should be accepted, especially if they were made a while ago. This also needs to have an acceptance that they were wrong before they changed. It's like saying that a former atheist who accepted Jesus Christ is still an atheist, even though they go to church every week, tithe, etc.

[Truth Warrior]

Libertarianism is not anti-statism; anarchy is. There are plenty of minarchist, conservatives, and socialists who are libertarians.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/lewrock0305a.gif

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/nolanchartmine.jpg

[electronicmaji]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/lewrock0305a.gif

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/nolanchartmine.jpg

that damn chart is so fucked up I don't know where to begin.

[Truth Warrior]

that damn chart is so fucked up I don't know where to begin.
Of course you don't. :p :rolleyes: Not surprised, AT ALL!

[tmosley]

The chart is oversimplified if anything. Anarchist would be further north on the chart, while authoritarian would be further south (they don't ask enough questions to really determine how extreme your views are).

[Kludge]

[Redacted by Moderator]

[acptulsa]

that damn chart is so f*cked up I don't know where to begin.

Start with the dictionary. Better yet, start with a thesaurus, so you can see that libertarian and socialist are antinyms.

tmosely: I have never seen you redefine words to suit yourself then flame anyone for not knowing what you're talking about. I've also never seen you ignore valid arguments or call people idiots or etc. And your statement earlier is the closest I've ever seen you come to arrogantly stating that agreeing with Ron Paul on ronpaulforums.com is trolling and disagreeing with him is not--and what you said is a far, far cry from that.

For these things, and for allowing us to enjoy your company, I thank you.

[electronicmaji]

Start with the dictionary. Better yet, start with a thesaurus, so you can see that libertarian and socialist are antinyms.

tmosely: I have never seen you redefine words to suit yourself then flame anyone for not knowing what you're talking about. I've also never seen you ignore valid arguments or call people idiots or etc. And your statement earlier is the closest I've ever seen you come to arrogantly stating that agreeing with Ron Paul on ronpaulforums.com is trolling and disagreeing with him is not--and what you said is a far, far cry from that.

For these things, and for allowing us to enjoy your company, I thank you.

I disagree with him on some things; I agree with him on far more things.

[Truth Warrior]

Who said anything about a libertarian-statist? I said that I USED TO BE a liberal, much like meji USED TO BE a neocon.

Only the fool never changes his mind. See President Bush, still pronouncing it nuke-u-lar.

"I kinda like your argument. Don't hold anyone (does this exclude politicians?) accountable as they can change. And change often."

You can't change every day, but life-altering changes should be accepted, especially if they were made a while ago. This also needs to have an acceptance that they were wrong before they changed. It's like saying that a former atheist who accepted Jesus Christ is still an atheist, even though they go to church every week, tithe, etc.
Talk is cheap. Do YOU vote? If so, "statist".<IMHO>

"Non-aggression" PRINCIPLE violator. AKA statist. :p Voting IS aggression.

[electronicmaji]

Talk is cheap. Do YOU vote? If so, "statist".<IMHO>

"Non-aggression" PRINCIPLE violator. AKA statist. :p Voting IS aggression.

Can your use of tags be any more annoying?

[Kludge]

EMI, you know you just confirmed that the video was of you, right?

[tmosley]

Talk is cheap. Do YOU vote? If so, "statist".<IMHO>

"Non-aggression" PRINCIPLE violator. AKA statist. :p Voting IS aggression.

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. Could you state your thoughts in paragraph form please?

[Truth Warrior]

Can your use of tags be any more annoying? Oh I can really crank it up for an Obama guy. :rolleyes::p

You're getting off really easy, socialist. ;)

[electronicmaji]

EMI, you know you just confirmed that the video was of you, right?

yeah it was a 5 second video; and it was of me. Whats the point?

[Truth Warrior]

Sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. Could you state your thoughts in paragraph form please?
Yep, those two lines are REALLY confusing. :rolleyes:

[electronicmaji]

Oh I can really crank it up for an Obama guy. :rolleyes::p

You're getting off really easy, socialist. ;)

What next, gonna call me a dirty red commie? The Cold War is over darlin.

[Truth Warrior]

What next, gonna call me a dirty red commie? The Cold War is over darlin. Not with folks like you still around, Comrade!

[tmosley]

Yep, those two lines are REALLY confusing. :rolleyes:

Were you calling me a statist? You aren't very clear. "Voting is aggression?" What are you talking about? Explain yourself, man! Stream of consciousness is not a good communication medium.

In answer to the only part of your post I really understood, yes I do vote at every election where I know about the ideologies of the candidates and the responsibilities of the positions they are running for..

[acptulsa]

Yep, those two lines are REALLY confusing. :rolleyes:

You underestimate yourself, TW. You've been speaking libertarian fluently for years; not everyone else here has. Why not explain nicely?

Maji, the Cold War is over because complete socialism is nothing more than a failed experiment. Maybe you're too young to remember that part. As for partial socialism, such as socialized health care, if you think that's all wonderful stuff you haven't done enough research, imo.

[Truth Warrior]

Were you calling me a statist? You aren't very clear. "Voting is aggression?" What are you talking about? Explain yourself, man! Stream of consciousness is not a good communication medium.

In answer to the only part of your post I really understood, yes I do vote at every election where I know about the ideologies of the candidates and the responsibilities of the positions they are running for..
Which word is causing you difficulties?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/voting

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/is

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/aggression

http://www.voluntaryist.com/

[tmosley]

Are you saying you don't vote?

I think I'm going to throw up.

[Kludge]

yeah it was a 5 second video; and it was of me. Whats the point?

It was REEEEALLY funny. I literally leaked a bit.

[Truth Warrior]

Are you saying you don't vote?

I think I'm going to throw up.
It's just an "anti-programming" reaction. ;)

Is Voting an Act of Violence?
http://www.voluntaryist.com/articles/103.php

[tmosley]

No. Voting is one of the few powers we have. Vote for those with the ideology that can save this country. If that fails, you can always veto the election with a bullet.

[Truth Warrior]

No. Voting is one of the few powers we have. Vote for those with the ideology that can save this country. If that fails, you can always veto the election with a bullet.

Is Voting an Act of Violence?
http://www.voluntaryist.com/articles/103.php

[electronicmaji]

Is Voting an Act of Violence?
http://www.voluntaryist.com/articles/103.php

No wonder Ron Paul lost the primaries with his followers reading this kind of dribble.

[Truth Warrior]

No wonder Ron Paul lost the primaries with his followers reading this kind of dribble.
Ron Paul is NOT my shepherd. I have NO shepherd.

Unlike Obaaaaaaaama.:rolleyes: :p

[Truth Warrior]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/lewrock0305a.gif

"Visit LewRockwell.com, an outstanding and crucially important Web site I visit every day." -- Ron Paul.
"THE REVOLUTION, A MANIFESTO" ( page # 158 ), http://www.lewrockwell.com/ (http://www.lewrockwell.com/) ;)

[electronicmaji]

Ron Paul isn't your shepherd? From all the respect you give him sure seems like it....


Anyways; isn't Lew Rockwell the racist that cost Ron Paul his campaign?

[Fox McCloud]

Anyways; isn't Lew Rockwell the racist that cost Ron Paul his campaign?

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i169/Fox_P_McCloud/sthu.png

[Truth Warrior]

Ron Paul isn't your shepherd? From all the respect you give him sure seems like it....


Anyways; isn't Lew Rockwell the racist that cost Ron Paul his campaign?
He's earned my respect, not my vote. Ron understands PRINCIPLES.

"Visit LewRockwell.com, an outstanding and crucially important Web site I visit every day." -- Ron Paul.
"THE REVOLUTION, A MANIFESTO" ( page # 158 ), http://www.lewrockwell.com/ (http://www.lewrockwell.com/) ;)

[Danke]

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i169/Fox_P_McCloud/sthu.png

That's not his nature. Or is if nurture? Who knows? But he definitely isn't normal.

[Kludge]

TW.... That has to be the most thick-headed anti-gradualist extremist Islamo-fascist load of bologna I've ever heard of.


Are you hoping for a bloody revolution???

[Truth Warrior]

Congressman Ron Paul: Archives

Past articles by Congressman Ron Paul on LewRockwell.com

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html

[Truth Warrior]

TW.... That has to be the most thick-headed anti-gradualist extremist Islamo-fascist load of bologna I've ever heard of.


Are you hoping for a bloody revolution???

Statement of Purpose: Voluntaryists are advocates of non-political, non-violent strategies to achieve a free society. We reject electoral politics, in theory and in practice, as incompatible with libertarian principles. Governments must cloak their actions in an aura of moral legitimacy in order to sustain their power, and political methods invariably strengthen that legitimacy. Voluntaryists seek instead to delegitimize the State through education, and we advocate withdrawal of the cooperation and tacit consent on which State power ultimately depends.

http://www.voluntaryist.com/

[LibertyEagle]

Libertarianism is not anti-statism; anarchy is. There are plenty of minarchist, conservatives, and socialists who are libertarians.

Socialists are the only people from your list that are for big government.

[Kludge]

I'm familiar with voluntaryism and that'd be fine and dandy if you were already in your Utopian libertarian world. You're not. You're in America where the aggression of having a collectivist ruler is inevitable, whether you vote or not. Choosing the tyrant is preferable to letting "them" elect a POTUS who may be more evil.

[LibertyEagle]

Anyways; isn't Lew Rockwell the racist that cost Ron Paul his campaign?

I'm not saying this as a Moderator, but as a forum member. You are really ticking me off. :mad:

/end rant

Have a nice day. :)

[LibertyEagle]

No wonder Ron Paul lost the primaries with his followers reading this kind of dribble.

Did you vote for Dr. Paul in the primary?

[Kludge]

I'm not saying this as a Moderator, but as a forum member. You are really ticking me off. :mad:

Whoa LE, don't say something you'll regret!

[yongrel]

Whoa LE, don't say something you'll regret!

:p

[Truth Warrior]

I'm familiar with voluntaryism and that'd be fine and dandy if you were already in your Utopian libertarian world. You're not. You're in America where the aggression of having a collectivist ruler is inevitable, whether you vote or not. Choosing the tyrant is preferable to letting "them" elect a POTUS who may be more evil.
A free society is created one by one. YOU may just still have some time to "fix it". :D

No Utopia BTW, just "Freedom, Peace and Prosperity". ;)

[electronicmaji]

Did you vote for Dr. Paul in the primary?

Yes.

[electronicmaji]

I'm not saying this as a Moderator, but as a forum member. You are really ticking me off. :mad:

/end rant

Have a nice day. :)

Sorry, during the days that Ron Paul's Racism letters got aired; many; many; many people came out with theories and articles about it. I remember distinctly one of them being about rockwell, but I'm not sure in what context.

[Kludge]

No Utopia BTW, just "Freedom, Peace and Prosperity". ;)

I'd call that an ideal society ;)

[Truth Warrior]

..........

[Danke]

No Utopia BTW, just "Freedom, Peace and Prosperity". ;)


No it's "Reform, Prosperity, Peace" John McCain

[Truth Warrior]

I'd call that an ideal society ;)

Suggestion: Raise your standards of "ideal". ;)

[Danke]

TW is unAmerican.

[Truth Warrior]

No it's "Reform, Prosperity, Peace" John McCain
No, it's "NWO" John McCain and "NWO" Barack Obama. :p

[Truth Warrior]

TW is unAmerican.
TW is unSheeple. ;)

[Danke]

TW is unSheeple. ;)

Foreigner! :p

[Kludge]

Foreigner! :p

Joo!

Err... - sorry. Caught up in the moment.

[Truth Warrior]

Foreigner! :p
Silly! :p

[RideTheDirt]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/Socialism_by_miniamericanflags.jpg
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3106/socialismbyminiamericands3.th.jpg
Fixed.

[Kludge]

Fixed.

Is it? :p

[Truth Warrior]

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3106/socialismbyminiamericands3.th.jpg
Fixed.

As long as the colors match. ;)

[votefreedomfirst]

Fixed.

LOL

These days (most) Republicans are socialists too, unfortunately.

[Truth Warrior]

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/obama_newman.jpg

And cross with Steve Urkle TOO. :D

[AutoDas]

http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2007-winter/moral-vs-universal-health-care.asp

electronicmaji go read that and back up your opinions with facts. Then try to dispute every fact in that article.

http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2007/20070718153509.aspx

You even got that erroneous statistic from Michael Moron's movie wrong. It's 50 million, not 60 million and this article debunks what you think that all of them can not afford it when they choose not to buy it.

By the way, for mandatory insurance is not socialized "universal" health care. It is fascist policy being forced to pay for a false expenditure.

[Danke]

electronicmaji go read that and back up your opinions with facts. Then try to dispute every fact in that article.


You just invited EMI to come back and post more on RPF!?!?


That should be a banning offense! :p