debating economics

[Jeremy]

There are problems because capitalism naturally has ups and downs. It fluctuates. There are not fluctuations because of government intervention. It's actually the opposite. Socialistic economies have more stable economies, but the lack of a free economy prevents growth. Adopting a laize faire economy right now would be shooting ourselves in the foot at this point.

This is what somebody said to me a few minutes ago. I told him to read something by Ludwig von Mises or anyone in the Austrian School. Of course, me merely saying that could be enough to make him stop trying because he has no idea what that is... and right before theis he told me he doesn't know much about economics.... so... I don't really know what he's doing. But does anyone else find themselves in similar situations? Where a "debate" is not really a debate, but someone that can't admit to being wrong.

[yongrel]

This is what somebody said to me a few minutes ago. I told him to read something by Ludwig von Mises or anyone in the Austrian School. Of course, me merely saying that could be enough to make him stop trying because he has no idea what that is... and right before theis he told me he doesn't know much about economics.... so... I don't really know what he's doing. But does anyone else find themselves in similar situation? Where a "debate" is not really a debate, but someone that can't admit to being wrong.

Whenever someone says "I don't know much about economics," take that opportunity.

The natural reply is saying "Well, it shows."

[Conza88]

There are problems because capitalism naturally has ups and downs. It fluctuates. There are not fluctuations because of government intervention. It's actually the opposite. Socialistic economies have more stable economies, but the lack of a free economy prevents growth. Adopting a laize faire economy right now would be shooting ourselves in the foot at this point.

FFS.. pure ignorance. Pisses me off sooo much. :mad: He's totally deluded, it's the exact opposite.

Ups & downs = that's the business cycle. It's caused by a central bank. A Central Bank is the 5th plank of the Communist Manifesto. We don't have capitalism today. We don't have a free market. Fluctuations are caused by government intervention. Every problem you see has been caused by government. They enacted the Federal Reserve Act, they went off the gold standard, they outlawed competing currencies, they create the unnatural monopolies, they provide corporate welfare. Socialist economies are planned economies. Planned economies fail; see Russia circa Stalin, see communism.

In a Capitalist society with sound money, and no central bank, with 100% reserve banking you'd see continual stable economic growth. Prices would decrease, the quality of living would increase. Capitalism is meant to be funded by savings, not credit. Furthermore, credit used to be available for the sole purpose of increasing productivity. You'd get a loan, upgrade your farm equipment, make more profits and pay off the debt. Everyone would be better off. Credit these days, does not fulfill that purpose - it's because people have no savings, they must borrow to fulfill there current lifestyle.


But does anyone else find themselves in similar situation? Where a "debate" is not really a debate, but someone that can't admit to being wrong.

“Behind every argument is someone's ignorance.”
Robert Benchley

“Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; argument is an exchange of ignorance”
Robert Quillen

Btw, it really doesn't surprise me. I participate on a national forum - that's linked to a show broadcasted weekly, that features politicians, expert guests etc. (Not one word of truth uttered) anyway, people on the boards... they'd do everyones head in. You show they are wrong... but no, heads down - they trod on even further. Btw; paste the bit directed at him if you want.. wld love to see the response.

[dannno]

There has not been a semblance of a free market economy in this country or any other for a long, long time.

With a central bank controlling central economic planning and money creation you just aren't going to have a free economy.

Explain that the constitution says that money can be created for free by the government rather than loaned out by central banks, and that all of our money is currently created through debt with interest attached. This economy was designed by the big bankers back in 1913 with the Federal Reserve Act.

Ask him if he can show you an example of where free markets have been utilized in a constitutional setting, then he should be able to use that as an example to show how and why free markets do not work. He won't be able to because for the extremely brief periods of time when our country was not controlled by central banks, although the money interests were still at work, they were working off of funds that had been gained in other countries that they controlled in Europe, such as England. Despite that, our country was still quite prosperous during these times.



The biggest problem with these people is that they are brainwashed into thinking that corporations are these giant monsters that need to be quelled by the government. So they want to give government more power. The problem is that these corporations have access to larger sums of capital than the people, so they are able to use this money to take control of government and grow themselves and regulate themselves into oligopolies and monopolies. This is precisely why the constitution was created, because when powerful people take a hold of a government, they give themselves more power and use taxpayer funds or regulate in favor of their profits. Even pollution itself is a product of allowing the super elite to convince government to ignore property rights in the constitution. Corporations don't have the right to pollute our air or water supplies. The left in this country have no idea that their environmental causes are already spelled out in the constitution, we just need to follow it. Cap and Trade is a scam.

[Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice]

I think your friend is implying a correct assertion in that while government causes most of the disturbances in a free market, they don't cause all of them(the ecosystem is the biggest restraint on growth)

I see it like this:

Socialism artificially restricts caloric intake of the economic body. It maintains a "healthy" weight at the expense of the individual's freedom in choosing if they want to get fat or not.
Or it could be viewed like an antidepressant which dampens one's emotional response at the expense of becoming a numb zombie. It defeats the purpose of life IMO.

Free-markets have no calorie limits, which is great for experiencing freedom, but it must expend as much as it eats or it will acquire too much weight and die.

[Conza88]

I think your friend is implying a correct assertion in that while government causes most of the disturbances in a free market, they don't cause all of them
I see it like this:


Noo, pretty sure he didn't imply that. Nothing he said was correct, except 8 words: "the lack of a free economy prevents growth."

I see it like this:

Planned economy. The state creates a medical pill for the population or vaccine. It's administered for every person... given for free, via taxation. Everyone is coerced into taking it or you will not be allowed to work - because you may get others sick. It ends up being contaminated, 90% of the population die.

Thanks coercive socialism / communism...

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

But does anyone else find themselves in similar situations? Where a "debate" is not really a debate, but someone that can't admit to being wrong.

The difference between a debate and an argument is an audience.

You two were having an argument. :)

Regards,
Omphfullas Zamboni

[AJ Antimony]

Ups & downs = that's the business cycle. It's caused by a central bank. A Central Bank is the 5th plank of the Communist Manifesto. We don't have capitalism today. We don't have a free market. Fluctuations are caused by government intervention. Every problem you see has been caused by government.

That isn't true. Government doesn't cause all fluctuations. Fluctuations are a natural part of freedom... some people make good decisions, some make bad ones. Some businesses prosper, some fail. Humans are not perfect and in a free unregulated market, it will show.

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

Research the phrase "invisible hand of the market".

[Conza88]

That isn't true. Government doesn't cause all fluctuations. Fluctuations are a natural part of freedom... some people make good decisions, some make bad ones. Some businesses prosper, some fail. Humans are not perfect and in a free unregulated market, it will show.

Clarification per origional statement: Every problem you see today.

But furthermore, your point is largely irrelevant to what this guy was addressing. And yes I know there are fluctuations in the market, as individuals make decisions based on their subjective value of the goods, product or service... but this is NOT what the guy was criticizing or even complaining about.

He's talking about the problems we have NOW. He was blaming Capitalism. He is delusional. He doesn't know what Capitalism is. He thinks socialism breeds a stable economy... he's living in a dream world, everything is 180*.