iron sight rifle

[rmodel65]

well with all the appleseed talk around here, ive been thinking about trying to get a rifle. anything i should look for in particular?

im a newbie when it come to most firearms in general when considering brands and option etc, although im pretty accurate with them

[ronpaulblogsdotcom]

It's site not sight. And what ype of caliber were you thinking? Bolt action or semiauto?

[B964]

well with all the appleseed talk around here, ive been thinking about trying to get a rifle. anything i should look for in particular?

im a newbie when it come to most firearms in general when considering brands and option etc, although im pretty accurate with them


Ok, here is the deal. This is the general concensus of Appleseed Project members (plus or minus).

Get a ruger 10/22 rifle. The longer rifle version with out a front barrel band works great. The carbine model also works great (remove the barrel band, it's not needed)

Get four extra Ruger factory magazines. Stay with factoy here, you will thank me later.

Get a GI syle web sling (midwayusa or cheaperthandirt has them)

Get a set of Tech-Sights.com TSR-100 or TSR-200(the 200 has neat but not required rear elevation/it's the one I got). Tell them Appleseed Project sent you.

Get a few boxes of .22 ammo. Wallyworld has it for about $18.00 for 550 rounds.

Get top of the line eye and ear protection(a Rifleman can not save the country if eyes and ears are toast)

Order The Riflemans Guide, shooting jacket, and targets from Fredsm14stocks.com

Read the guide front to rear, then keep it in your range bag and read it a few more times.

Go to the range and shoot.

Total $300-$350 all said and done.

Join the RWVA, attend an Appleseed, which will quailfy you to order a GI surplus
M1 Garand 30.06 rifle starting a just $495.00. It will be FedExed right to your house. Buy as much ammo with it as you can. ODCMP.COM
Use the 10/22 for training as it is so cheap to shoot. Use the M1 as much as you can afford to.
Go to Appleseed some more, become a Rifleman and start instructing others to become riflemen.

Simple, cheap, fun, saving our History, saving our country. Who in the H*** is not up for that!!!

Did I miss anything?

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

It's site not sight.

:confused:

A site is a place. Iron sights are called sights as in "see" because they are a mechanical optical device. That's what I was taught, anyway.

[acptulsa]

Yeah, B964, you missed two things:

Don't expect the Garand to be as accurate as that amazing Ruger. Accurate, yes, just not quite as much.

Smile!

Wow, I think I like your group. Nice to see someone else who believes placing their rounds carefully is more important than throwing as many grains of lead downrange as possible!

[B964]

Yeah, B964, you missed two things:

Don't expect the Garand to be as accurate as that amazing Ruger. Accurate, yes, just not quite as much.

Smile!

Wow, I think I like your group. Nice to see someone else who believes placing their rounds carefully is more important than throwing as many grains of lead downrange as possible!

Smile!? You lost me on that. Do my posts read like I am grinding my teeth?
I guess maybe I am sometimes.

[acptulsa]

Smile!? You lost me on that. Do my posts read like I am grinding my teeth?
I guess maybe I am sometimes.

Sorry, I missed a step.

Look at your bull's eye.

Smile.

[B964]

Sorry, I missed a step.

Look at your bull's eye.

Smile.


Right. I understand now.

[hillbilly123069]

Can't go wrong with a 30/30 Winchester.

[jkm1864]

Springfield M1A has the best Iron sites and can shoot up to 500 yards accurately with them. I have a scout and I am very pleased with the rifle. I also love the construction it isn't made from cheap plastic like most guns to. The rifle is a bit heavy but very durable. I was actually thinking about buying another one but considering the fact they are pretty pricey I might have to wait. I would recommend getting a good bolt action with a scope and a semi auto with iron sites.

[newyearsrevolution08]

I am looking into a m1a BUT will be setting up my ruger 10/22 with iron sights for one of these events here in Cali once I locate one I can go to.

A 10/22 is a great rifle to learn with and fix mistakes with WITHOUT a costly operation especially with prices how they are nowadays.

Now still on the 10/22, any suggestions for stocks that will go well with the iron sights and do they also have that setup for any bull barrels?

-----------------------

For the appleseed I want to take a m1a BUT also a 10/22 as well, do they allow 2 rifles during it or should you only work with one rifle the entire time?

-----------------------

I believe they speak down on the bolt action at the appleseed BUT don't quote me on it. It makes it a bit harder for those new to it versus a semi...

-----------------------

[B964]

I am looking into a m1a BUT will be setting up my ruger 10/22 with iron sights for one of these events here in Cali once I locate one I can go to.

A 10/22 is a great rifle to learn with and fix mistakes with WITHOUT a costly operation especially with prices how they are nowadays.

Now still on the 10/22, any suggestions for stocks that will go well with the iron sights and do they also have that setup for any bull barrels?

-----------------------

For the appleseed I want to take a m1a BUT also a 10/22 as well, do they allow 2 rifles during it or should you only work with one rifle the entire time?

-----------------------

I believe they speak down on the bolt action at the appleseed BUT don't quote me on it. It makes it a bit harder for those new to it versus a semi...

-----------------------

The factory wood stock is fine, but a Houge OverMolded stock would be good also.

Tech-Sights makes a TS157 dovetail adaptor for a .920 barrel for the front sight.

10/22 being cheap to learn on is the whole point. We want you to have as much training as possiable for the least dollars spent. Nobody thinks it is a Main Battle Rifle(MBR) They are Liberty Training Rifles(LTR). But I still would not want to go up againt a Appleseed trained Rifleman with a 10/22 in a rifle fight.

Definately bring a back up rifle and ammo for it. It is prefered you stick with one though the course, but thats up to you.

Speak down on bolt rifles? NEVER. It is just that learning the basics is easier when you do not have to fuss with a bolt. Many a Rifleman has been made with a bolt. Try that out. 40 rounds on target at 25 yards, 4 mag changes, 3 position changes, with a bolt action. Now thats a Rifleman. If you can do it, more power to you.

[newyearsrevolution08]

thank you for all the information indeed. I will be locating the houge with the .920 and iron sights for the setup. On the bolt comment, my only reason was due to it being EASIER for someone like me to have a semi when first getting started BUT not talking them down.

My favorite rifle I owned was my savage 110 7 mag bolt and it was accurate as hell BUT I did not do it correctly due to it being scoped. Anyone can shoot well with a scope BUT I love the idea behind appleseed and the abilities it can teach me.

I would go out there as a damn blank canvas minus knowing my rifle inside and out and do my best to keep all of my shooting quirks out so I can fill my mind with CORRECT information.

I will odds are setup the 10/22 and get it setup as needed and maybe if possible bring out an m1a as well but focus on learning with the 10/22

I can't wait to get out to one of these!


The factory wood stock is fine, but a Houge OverMolded stock would be good also.

Tech-Sights makes a TS157 dovetail adaptor for a .920 barrel for the front sight.

10/22 being cheap to learn on is the whole point. We want you to have as much training as possiable for the least dollars spent. Nobody thinks it is a Main Battle Rifle(MBR) They are Liberty Training Rifles(LTR). But I still would not want to go up againt a Appleseed trained Rifleman with a 10/22 in a rifle fight.

Definately bring a back up rifle and ammo for it. It is prefered you stick with one though the course, but thats up to you.

Speak down on bolt rifles? NEVER. It is just that learning the basics is easier when you do not have to fuss with a bolt. Many a Rifleman has been made with a bolt. Try that out. 40 rounds on target at 25 yards, 4 mag changes, 3 position changes, with a bolt action. Now thats a Rifleman. If you can do it, more power to you.

[B964]

newyearsrevolution08,
You just told everyone the number two rule of Appleseed, and I apoligize for not saying it allready.

A teachable attitude, a mind free of your habits while shooting. This is not a competition with anyone but yourself, a formidable opponent in itself.

BTW number one rule is that everyone within a mile or so does not acquire any new holes.

[rmodel65]

yeah i dont really have any "habits" with rifle so ill pretty much be a blank slate



i just ventured to wally world something i loathe :( bbut they do carry a stainless 22inch long ruger 12/22 for $238. before i ventured to our local shooters store they had the standard length ruger for 222$ and it wasnt stainless plus wally worlds extra magazines were only 13 compared to the gun stores 16

[HenryKnoxFineBooks]

I went to my first appleseed with only a teachable attitude, as I had never fired a long arm before :).

I have a 10/.22 on the way and plan to attend another appleseed at the end of August!

Looking forward to it, plus the money I'm saving on ammo with the 10/.22 easily pays for it.

[B964]

yeah i dont really have any "habits" with rifle so ill pretty much be a blank slate



i just ventured to wally world something i loathe :( bbut they do carry a stainless 22inch long ruger 12/22 for $138. before i ventured to our local shooters store they had the standard length ruger for 122$ and it wasnt stainless plus wally worlds extra magazines were only 13 compared to the gun stores 16

22 inch 10/22 stainless for $138.00? Buy it. Buy a couple. If you get into the Appleseed program you will need a couple to use for loaners when you start instructing. You will make Rifleman and start instructing, right?

[acptulsa]

...the money I'm saving on ammo with the 10/.22 easily pays for it.

.22LR isn't just affordable. It's also very accurate, easy to find in a pistol for ammo interchangeability and doesn't kick or report so hard or loud that you need to cut your day of shooting short to recover. Good stuff--if gun control means to you putting the bullet where it needs to be.

[rmodel65]

whoops meant 222 AND 238 RESPECTIVELY sorry for the typo

[B964]

whoops meant 222 AND 238 RESPECTIVELY sorry for the typo


OK, for a minute there I thought I was going to have to raid the piggy bank and head to Wallys. The stainless is a good deal. Sunday at Throop NY AS was pouring rain, I thought well,, Stainless, Aluminium, almost plastic cheap wood stock... so let it get a little wet, keep shooting. The thing is more accurate than I am. If I don't hit the mark it's me not it.

[rmodel65]

ok i found the 22 in my house its a remington targetmaster 510 its pretty old seeing how it doesnt have any serial numbers and its also a single fire model. would this be acceptable or do they really want you to have a semi auto? i know it would be a pain to reload each time but this one is free :P

[rmodel65]

from what i have found online its date coded 1942

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4/rmodel65/101_1086.jpg
http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f4/rmodel65/101_1085.jpg

[Doktor_Jeep]

For practice and plinking: Ruger 10/22. Every hous3ehold that has just one gun tends to have one of these.


For warfare, the AR-15 OR (if you like bigger guns) an M1A (Pollytech is OK actually they are pretty good).


If you want to save a few bucks, get an AR-15 and buy a .22LR conversion kit for it.

Oh yeah, you need to practice too. Get into reloading your own.

[Pauls' Revere]

No expert but I have a 1943 91/30 Soviet Mosin-Nagant. 7.62 54r caliber rifle which they used in thier sniper corps during WW2. I've heard they are great fun to shoot and acurate and can be bought on the cheap. Picked mine up for $85.00 USD plus taxes and fees which actually cost more than the gun! Have yet to shoot it so not sure just how it is nonetheless it's a neat piece of history. Will post when I find a range and time to shoot, perhaps my birthday.

[B964]

ok i found the 22 in my house its a remington targetmaster 510 its pretty old seeing how it doesnt have any serial numbers and its also a single fire model. would this be acceptable or do they really want you to have a semi auto? i know it would be a pain to reload each time but this one is free :P

After a Quick poke around the net.... The targetmaster 510 mfg 1936-1969 is a fairly acurate, well liked rifle. An example can be had for $100 to $200. Expensive parts. If major parts or repair needed it will exceede the value.

Long and short....... if it is safe to fire and it is what you have, bring it to an Appleseed. An Appleseed instructor will get you shooting it better. Remember if you check ahead of time with the state coordinator, loaner rifles are sometimes available.

[B964]

No expert but I have a 1943 91/30 Soviet Mosin-Nagant. 7.62 54r caliber rifle which they used in thier sniper corps during WW2. I've heard they are great fun to shoot and acurate and can be bought on the cheap. Picked mine up for $85.00 USD plus taxes and fees which actually cost more than the gun! Have yet to shoot it so not sure just how it is nonetheless it's a neat piece of history. Will post when I find a range and time to shoot, perhaps my birthday.

91/30 Soviet Mosin-Nagant is a great rifle, and hard to beat the price.

[rmodel65]

After a Quick poke around the net.... The targetmaster 510 mfg 1936-1969 is a fairly acurate, well liked rifle. An example can be had for $100 to $200. Expensive parts. If major parts or repair needed it will exceede the value.

Long and short....... if it is safe to fire and it is what you have, bring it to an Appleseed. An Appleseed instructor will get you shooting it better. Remember if you check ahead of time with the state coordinator, loaner rifles are sometimes available.




yeah it shot nice today, i put some rounds through it and the ruger 10/22 along with a Remington model 12 i found in the house. my dad said its about 80 years old looks about like a bb gun :P it shot ok too

[B964]

yeah it shot nice today, i put some rounds through it and the ruger 10/22 along with a Remington model 12 i found in the house. my dad said its about 80 years old looks about like a bb gun :P it shot ok too

So how do I get one of these "magic" closets where you find old rifles?

[noxagol]

No expert but I have a 1943 91/30 Soviet Mosin-Nagant. 7.62 54r caliber rifle which they used in thier sniper corps during WW2. I've heard they are great fun to shoot and acurate and can be bought on the cheap. Picked mine up for $85.00 USD plus taxes and fees which actually cost more than the gun! Have yet to shoot it so not sure just how it is nonetheless it's a neat piece of history. Will post when I find a range and time to shoot, perhaps my birthday.

Two things with this rifle. 1)Be prepared for hurt after about 50 rounds. 2)Keep your bolt lubed and clean as it tends to stick a lot when trying to work it after firing. I've gotten into the habit of just slamming it open and back instead of working it normally. Sometimes a round will get jammed in their too which requires even more slamming.

[rmodel65]

So how do I get one of these "magic" closets where you find old rifles?



well the house i live in was bought by my grandfather in the 60 and he had 7 kids. so there is 7 kids worth of junk on the third floor(no idea whats in the attic) a lot of the stuff is not wanted by my aunts and uncles so i lay claim :)

[B964]

well the house i live in was bought by my grandfather in the 60 and he had 7 kids. so there is 7 kids worth of junk on the third floor(no idea whats in the attic) a lot of the stuff is not wanted by my aunts and uncles so i lay claim :)

Let me know when your going through the attic, I'll be there.
When we bought our 1850s farm house it was full of stuff. The last owner took his clothes and car and just left. Unfortunately it was mostly junk. We did find some newspapers from late 1860 that was used for insulation. Strange to read people talking same stuff as today. "If we don't start fixing some of these problems this county is headed for disaster" If they only knew!

[TruckinMike]

All you need to know about the "Liberty Training Rifle"....




The Liberty Training Rifle

The Ruger 10/22® has been officially adopted by the RWVA as the Liberty Training Rifle (LTR)

As the cost of military surplus and new-production ammunition rises, and while supplies of the same are (at best) unreliable, many Appleseed instructors and attendees have noted a need for a cost-effective means of practicing marksmanship, especially at 25 meters. To this end, we have conducted extensive research and testing of many currently available products.
The following is a summarization of our findings and experiences in the development of the Ruger 10/22® Liberty Training Rifle.


The Appleseed Program promotes rifle safety and marksmanship, as well as knowledge of Revolutionary War history and grass-roots participation in the political process, especially as this relates to the preservation of the Second Amendment. Thousands of satisfied Appleseed attendees have proven that the marksmanship principles that the Appleseed Program teaches at 25m translate into accurate shooting at up to 500 yards.

Unfortunately, the rising cost of ammunition has hindered the participation of some Americans in marksmanship activities. Proficient marksmanship requires regular practice, though not necessarily at full-distance. Practice at 25 meters, fortunately, does not require a full-power centerfire battle rifle; for this distance, a .22LR rimfire rifle is all that is required. Moreover, many indoor ranges do not allow the use of full-power rifles, but .22LR rifles are permitted.

There are several accurate and durable .22LR rifles on the market today, but the Ruger 10/22 has proven one of the most successful. It is both affordable and accurate, and several aftermarket accessories have been shown to make it an ideal platform for a 25m training rifle. The components listed in this thread should not require any gunsmithing, and little mechanical aptitude is required to install them. In short, this is a true ‘do-it-yourself’ project.

This should help you build a rifle that can quickly be put into service at an Appleseed, be lent to someone at a local AQT shoot, and be used to practice at 25m (or even use in 25 & 50 yard CMP rifle competitions) - all with cheap .22LR ammunition. Also, it will give you a valuable tool to use to train new shooters, without subjecting them to the often-intimidating recoil of a full-power main battle rifle.


Which 10/22 should I use to get started? -- There are a lot of options: rifles, carbines, heavy-barrelled target rifles, even receivers that allow one to build a complete rifle with custom components. One of the most-popular options for many adult shooters is a 22” barreled rifle from WalMart, available for just over $200. Small-framed adults and children may prefer the slightly smaller 10/22 Carbine. Any 10/22 is a good starting point for your Liberty Trainer.

Okay, I’ve got my rifle. Now what? – The Ruger factory sights are not suited to fine adjustments. Fortunately, Tech-Sights (http://www.tech-sights.com/) produces several adjustable aperture sights for the 10/22. These sights allow simple adjustment for windage and elevation (windage adjustment requires the use of an AR-15 sight adjustment tool – also available from Tech-Sights). [For those of you who would like to be able to quickly and easily adjust windage on the Tech-Sight, DPMS offers the Rapidex knob, which replaces the standard, must-use-a-tool A1 windage drum (Part# UR-3981, $9). ]
On the 22 inch barrel rifle, each click of windage or elevation is .8 MOA. For most standard carbine barrels one click = 1 MOA (at least close enough for practical applications).


So why do I want Tech-Sights instead of some other sights? – You’re free to add whatever type of aftermarket sights you like, BUT the sight picture the Tech-Sights give you is very similar to the sight picture of the Springield M1A and the AR-15 rifles. Since these types of rifles are the ones many shooters use when shooting at full-distance, it just makes sense to use 10/22 sights that replicate the sights of their long-distance rifles. Plus, they are easier to adjust than many other types of sights are.
Williams are an alternative aperture-type sight, but do not give a sight picture as similar to your main rifle’s as the Tech-Sights do.

How do you take the original front sight off of the barrel? – One of our satisfied shooters says this much better than I can: “I laid the barrel on a piece of 2X4, put the punch on the left side of the sight down on the dovetail part of the front sight blade (not the base) and smacked it with a hammer two or three times. On my 10/22 the dovetail in the front sight base was a lot larger than the new Tech front sight. I had to use a center punch to raise up little dimples in the front sight base dovetail to keep the Tech sight from falling out every time I turned the barrel over... remember to use Locktite on the screws as they will come loose.”
The front sight is actually made to go in and be removed from one side. When installing sights, install from right to left. When uninstalling(removing) sights, remove from left to right.


What other parts should I add to my Liberty Trainer? –

1) A sling is a tremendous aid to accurate shooting, often improving group size by 50% or more. If your 10/22 has sling swivels already, you’re ahead of the game. If not, you need to add a pair.
Most Ruger factory sling swivels will not accommodate aftermarket sling swivels (the holes are a little too narrow). If you want to add the same sling that you have on your long-distance rifle, you’ll need to add a pair of 1¼ “ sling swivels (like those available from Uncle Mike’s) so that you can mount a US GI 1¼“ web sling.
You may have to use a drill or Dremel tool to widen the sling swivel holes very slightly. This should be the only time you’ll use a power tool during this project.

2) As it comes from the factory, releasing the 10/22 bolt from the locked-back position is a 2-handed operation, and is especially inconvenient when you’re firing from the prone position. The good news is, an aftermarket automatic bolt release only casts about $11 and is easy to install.
The CST Auto Bolt Stop (http://www.cstmtech.com) requires the use of specially modified magazines (using non-modified mags in a CST-equipped rifle may potentially damage the mechanism). Since the goal of this trainer is to get you out to the range (and not into the machine shop), you’ll probably be happier with one of the devices that doesn’t require you to modify your magazines.

3) The 10/22 magazine release is also difficult to manipulate. Without a doubt, an extended magazine release (the most popular cost about $5-$10) makes magazine changes faster. If your primary MBR is an M1A, the Bell and Carlson release is very similar in length to that of your MBR.

4) Many shooters report improved performance after installing target triggers in their 10/22 Trainers, and while this is not absolutely necessary, it does provide for improved accuracy due to lightening the trigger pull.



There are quite a few magazines available for the 10/22. Which magazines are the best? -- Butler Creek produces some well-regarded 10 round single-stack magazines which extend about 2 inches below the rifle, allowing a convenient grip for more-rapid magazine changes. Their Steel Lips magazines have proven to be nearly as durable as Ruger’s factory magazines. If you’re an M1A shooter, the Butler Creek 25-round magazines can be loaded with 20 rounds to simulate the M1A’s 20 round mags.
A device that allows you to attach 2 or 4 factory 10/22 magazines by their bases is a available from http://www.elmfg.com/store/ruger1022.html#Anchor-45980.

Is there any special modifications that are recommended for my ‘WalMart 10/22’? -- The only real difference between the standard receiver and the WalMart 22" version is that the WalMart receiver is painted both inside and out. This leads to rough operation and early fouling as the oil, powder, and rubbed off paint mix to form glop, (the technical term). If you strip the paint from the inside, just the top part, where the bolt and bolt handle rub, and polish the area with very fine sandpaper, you’ll find that the bolt is very much slicker to operate.
The standard black receiver should be fine, as they don't paint the inside of those.

Any other tips on constructing my 10/22 Liberty Trainer? –
1) “I've done a couple of these and in both cases I went back to the OEM Ruger trigger return spring. I found that the lighter Volquartsen spring will occasionally just not quite reset the sear. use the Volquartsen hammer spring, but stick with the factory Ruger trigger return spring. That's where mine is, with a decent 3-1/2 lb. trigger and 100% trigger reset reliability thus far.”

2) “You might want to consider fully bedding the barrel instead of free floating it. The 10/22 has a somewhat weak connection point between the barrel and the receiver. Free floating reportedly can lead to some POA/ POI and warping issues. On the other had, those who have firmly bedded it report exceptional accuracy gains. I know this sounds anti-intuitive, but this gun seems to prefer bedding vs. floating.”

I really don’t know how to disassemble my rifle to install these parts – No problem. There are some valuable resources available at http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/triggerruger1022.htm . As a bonus,
this link (http://www.heypete.com/pete/shooting/rugermag.html) shows you how to disassemble a factory magazine for cleaning.

I’d like an adjustable stock, so shooters of all sizes can use my rifle – Several shooters have recommended 2 adjustable stocks: the Christie Super Stock (http://www.1022central.com/) and the T6 Stock for Ruger 10/22 (http://www.tapco.com/catalog.aspx?id=293).

Now get out to the range! And take some new shooters with you.

-- by the Grin Reaper


TMike

[Cowlesy]

All you need to know about the "Liberty Training Rifle"....






TMike

A must-read post for this board's patriots.