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RonPaulFanInGA
07-14-2008, 06:02 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpMpoujGqEU

A commentator on the YouTube video of Ron Paul's speech at the July 12th march on Washington says the official estimate of the crowds' size is 14,800 people.

SnappleLlama
07-14-2008, 06:15 AM
I can't get YouTube at work...who made the official estimate?

mport1
07-14-2008, 06:19 AM
There was not that many people there. Why does everybody keep inflating the numbers?

HeidiFaith
07-14-2008, 11:26 AM
I don't think there was THAT many there. Would've been great if there were, but I'd estimate somewhere around 10,000.

MRoCkEd
07-14-2008, 11:34 AM
i've heard 1,000 to 20,000
it's anyones guess

newyearsrevolution08
07-14-2008, 11:37 AM
there were alot AND what is great about it is that each event that we have keeps getting LARGER which I think is the main thing to look at. I know St. Paul is going to be HUGE and we will make our voice HEARD.

RickyJ
07-14-2008, 02:35 PM
Guys, there weren't more than 2000 at the rally. Please be for real. Inflating the numbers makes us look bad. 2000 wasn't bad at all for a hot summer day in very humid Washington DC.

Gin
07-14-2008, 02:53 PM
I'm sorry to disagree with you, but there was WAY more than 2000 at the March...

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i235/unicornfan6/Ron%20Paul/123_0166.jpg

And this is only one view... there were mounds of folks to my left and to my right as I was standing to the right of the stage steps when I took this....

Crash Martinez
07-14-2008, 03:21 PM
I've given my take on this in a couple places, but I think it's valid and pertinent:


As many people in attendance are aware, my brother and I were at the pre-rally march handing out flyers for his congressional campaign. We brought between 1,500 and 2,000 flyers, and we ran out of them within 45 minutes. Many more people showed up after our flyers were exhausted. I am convinced there were approximately 7,000 people at the height of the crowd (namely, during Dr. Paul's awe-inspiring speech).

Peter Gay

reduen
07-14-2008, 03:41 PM
There are over 3000 just in the picture above! Some of you idiots can't even count...!!

Why anybody would want to underestimate the attendance of this event is beyond me...

ronpaulhawaii
07-14-2008, 03:51 PM
Guys, there weren't more than 2000 at the rally. Please be for real. Inflating the numbers makes us look bad. 2000 wasn't bad at all for a hot summer day in very humid Washington DC.

I have no idea how and why these absurd numbers get thrown around. 2000 is absurdly low. 8000 is the best estimate determined by those who know how to estimate crowd size, including the Capitol Police.

So, my question to those who are giving wildly high and low estimates is; what method are you using for your estimations?

glts
07-14-2008, 03:51 PM
Guys, there weren't more than 2000 at the rally. Please be for real. Inflating the numbers makes us look bad. 2000 wasn't bad at all for a hot summer day in very humid Washington DC.

You have got to be kidding. The DC police even said that there were about 10,000 and I'm sure they sure wouldn't exaggerate on our behalf.

awake
07-14-2008, 03:55 PM
lol... all good.

TheSkeptic
07-14-2008, 04:48 PM
I want some of what these people have been smoking.

Whoever said it is right - it makes us look like fools to put out such ridiculously inflated numbers.

Danke
07-14-2008, 04:51 PM
I have no idea how and why these absurd numbers get thrown around. 2000 is absurdly low. 8000 is the best estimate determined by those who know how to estimate crowd size, including the Capitol Police.

So, my question to those who are giving wildly high and low estimates is; what method are you using for your estimations?

No expert here, but from comparing it to other events I have been to where the number was known, it did appear to be between 7-8k.

BTW, that estimate is for the March, I have no idea about the Rally, I split early, the heat was too much for me.

Adam Kokesh
07-14-2008, 04:55 PM
14,800 sounds about right. I think we have some plants that are putting out these low numbers. The cops were overwhelmed and had to hold their guys past their shifts. I talk a bit about it in my video here. I have a friend from the Marines who works for USCP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MIFvI5-jdU

While I was on stage I tried to get a sense of how many people were in the dense part of the crowd right in front of the stage. I was rushing my speech because we were behind schedule, Chuck Baldwin was backstage throwing a sh*t-fit, and the organizers were trying to get Paul on ASAP, so I gave up counting about two-thirds of the way through my speech and I only got to 12,567. Then I counted the edges and the crowd was about 150 wide by 100 deep, so there you get 15000 without the people throughout the rest of the area. It's really not that hard to estimate crowd sizes. I'm sick of hearing from midgets (mental and/or physical) who were standing on the edge of the crowd saying, "Uh, from where I was I only saw like 20 people!"

nobody's_hero
07-14-2008, 05:01 PM
In my best 'Rain Man' voice:

Def- definitely 10,342 people at the m-march. Definitely.

ronpaulhawaii
07-14-2008, 05:07 PM
I want some of what these people have been smoking.

Whoever said it is right - it makes us look like fools to put out such ridiculously inflated numbers.

You unwillingness to answer my simple question and instead go on to launch an ad-hom exposes your lack of intelligence. Now I can understand your inability to count

;)

ronpaulhawaii
07-14-2008, 05:08 PM
14,800 sounds about right. I think we have some plants that are putting out these low numbers. The cops were overwhelmed and had to hold their guys past their shifts. I talk a bit about it in my video here. I have a friend from the Marines who works for USCP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MIFvI5-jdU

While I was on stage I tried to get a sense of how many people were in the dense part of the crowd right in front of the stage. I was rushing my speech because we were behind schedule, Chuck Baldwin was backstage throwing a sh*t-fit, and the organizers were trying to get Paul on ASAP, so I gave up counting about two-thirds of the way through my speech and I only got to 12,567. Then I counted the edges and the crowd was about 150 wide by 100 deep, so there you get 15000 without the people throughout the rest of the area. It's really not that hard to estimate crowd sizes. I'm sick of hearing from midgets (mental and/or physical) who were standing on the edge of the crowd saying, "Uh, from where I was I only saw like 20 people!"

Welcome to the forum Adam, Great speech!!!

TheSkeptic
07-14-2008, 05:13 PM
By the way, as I've clearly stated in multiple threads, the numbers I have put out were in regard to the rally, not the march. Apparently everyone bailed after the march or something.



so I gave up counting about two-thirds of the way through my speech and I only got to 12,567.

:(

Lord Xar
07-14-2008, 05:14 PM
Guys, there weren't more than 2000 at the rally. Please be for real. Inflating the numbers makes us look bad. 2000 wasn't bad at all for a hot summer day in very humid Washington DC.

hi ricky. just thought to say "hi".

TheSkeptic
07-14-2008, 05:33 PM
Adam -

Glad you didn't get bumped. I saw your speech as the most intense and powerful of the rally. I really liked you:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1559482&postcount=2

Two of my siblings have served multiple tours in Iraq. It boils my blood to think that if either of them had been killed, I could not honestly look at their casket and say that they died for their country. They would've died for some military-industrial executive, and I can't stomach that. So the anti-war veteran movement is so awesome to me.

With that said -

I am not here to be negative, by any means... but I'm also not here to live with my head in the clouds. This is a very real war with very real enemies, and positive confessions and inflated numbers are not going to get real results.

You were 110% into your speech, and I just honestly cannot believe that you made such an exact count while giving it - not to mention the fact that there were nowhere NEAR that many people at that point in the rally.


I'm sick of hearing from midgets (mental and/or physical) who were standing on the edge of the crowd saying, "Uh, from where I was I only saw like 20 people!"

I don't know where you got the number 20 - Wonkette is the only place that's been put out there.

And somewhere in Iraq, there are people calling into question your dedication, your strength (both physical and emotional) because you do not support that war. Somewhere, someone is calling you a traitor and a coward. Hell, maybe even a "plant". Are they right?

We both know the answer.

So tone down this idea that anyone who disagrees with you on this issue isn't your brother in this movement.



P.S. Interesting to hear about Baldwin throwing a fit... that's hilarious. Just when I was thinking the guy may be halfway real.

And guys like Michael Scheuer are absolutely critical to the credibility of this movement. I know his speech wasn't passionate, but we desperately need people like this. I wish he'd had 30 minutes, and they just cut out Jack McLamb and the Kill The Mexicans guy.

Gin
07-14-2008, 06:58 PM
[QUOTE=TheSkeptic;1562359]Adam -

I saw your speech as the most intense and powerful of the rally. I really liked you:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1559482&postcount=2

I completely agree. My son is in the DEP program and I am really wrestling with the fact that he will be promising to up hold an oath but not following it. Even tho he will be following orders. This really troubles me, but I also feel I need to stand behind his decision due to the fact I am a firm believer in protecting our country...just not taking over and occupying other countries.

Thank you for doing all that you do. For standing up for what you believe in spite of the naysayers. God Bless you and the movement.

Adam Kokesh
07-14-2008, 11:21 PM
I was using some hyperbole there, in case you didn't pick up on it. I think the best way to reframe the GWOT is to say that terrorism is a real problem [but as we all know, grossly over-inflated one] but terrorism is a crime, not an act of war, and needs to be dealt with appropriately, and the only time the military needs to be involved would be in very small numbers to take out criminal individuals. There is no "army of terrorists" out there. A network of terrorists, maybe, but we have made an army of insurgents, not terrorists, and we can very easily stop fueling that.

Gin,

It's great that as a parent you will support your son in whatever he decides to do for himself. But also as a parent, you have a responsibility to educate him. If he is in the DEP, he is not required to go yet! Check out GI Rights Hotline for more info.
http://www.objector.org/girights/

RickyJ
07-14-2008, 11:28 PM
I think the best way to reframe the GWOT is to say that terrorism is a real problem

Please don't tell me you think 19 Arabs did 9/11.

LibertyEagle
07-14-2008, 11:34 PM
Please don't tell me you think 19 Arabs did 9/11.

Yes I do. Right along with Michael Scheuer and Ron Paul.

LibertyEagle
07-14-2008, 11:36 PM
Chuck Baldwin was backstage throwing a sh*t-fit,

What about?

TheSkeptic
07-14-2008, 11:43 PM
Please don't tell me you think 19 Arabs did 9/11.

These people are a lot smarter than you give them credit for. They're also well funded.

As far as 9/11...

Obtaining ID as an illegal (or terrorist) in this country is not hard - it still isn't. There is a serious flaw in the whole system, which is the ease of obtaining a birth certificate versus the amount of trust given to that birth certificate by gov't agencies.

And it does not take a TON of planning to pull off an operation like this. A good deal, certainly. But nothing beyond the capability of some determined individuals with time and money.

Another thing is that we are not dealing with an "army", as Adam said. Armies can be cumbersome, easy to track, and slow to respond. But a group of people like this...it is so easy for them to slip through the cracks.

RickyJ
07-15-2008, 12:00 AM
Yes I do. Right along with Michael Scheuer and Ron Paul.


If you really think 9/11 was done by 19 Arabs then you must also think the laws of physics doesn't apply to Arab terrorists on a Jihad.

Also if you really think Ron Paul believes 19 Arabs did 9/11 then you don't know Ron Paul at all. He is not an idiot, and IMO, only an idiot would think 19 Arabs did it.

Expatriate
07-15-2008, 12:40 AM
Well, early on I stood up on the wall at the highest part of the Capitol lawn, and by comparing the crowd to other events I have been to with known attendance numbers, my most conservative estimate would be 12,000.

It is quite possible there were as many as 15,000, considering all the people who were either not on the Lawn or were sitting down and therefore not easily seen.

Also, most of the people I came in with decided to leave for large portions of the rally to get water and food. I also left for a half-hour to get water, before some clever people started passing it out freely. While I was walking down the Mall I saw hundreds of people walking about with Ron Paul shirts that were not on the lawn. I'm sure that at least 15-20% of the attendance was continuously absent.

I honestly don't know how anyone could come up with a number like 2000. As someone else said, even the DC police estimated the crowd to be over 10,000.

TheSkeptic
07-15-2008, 12:50 AM
If you really think 9/11 was done by 19 Arabs then you must also think the laws of physics doesn't apply to Arab terrorists on a Jihad.

Also if you really think Ron Paul believes 19 Arabs did 9/11 then you don't know Ron Paul at all. He is not an idiot, and IMO, only an idiot would think 19 Arabs did it.

He flatly denied believing it - and he has never shied away from a controversial position because it would catch him flak. How many politicians will say that the drug war is stupid on national TV?

If he believed it, he'd admit it.


Also not sure what you mean by laws of physics not applying to them. Something about the spread of the debris, maybe? I know that is something 9/11 truth people always bring up.

Conza88
07-15-2008, 01:06 AM
Guys, there weren't more than 2000 at the rally. Please be for real. Inflating the numbers makes us look bad. 2000 wasn't bad at all for a hot summer day in very humid Washington DC.

There were more than 2000 at the rally. Please be for real. Deflating the numbers makes us look bad. Borderline 10,000 wasn't bad at all for a hot summer day in very humid Washington DC.

Expatriate
07-16-2008, 01:12 AM
Watch this video, count the people as they go past.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFpJGL0jIjI

Then watch part 2 and keep counting:cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OllkHmdjAc&feature=related

Conza88
07-16-2008, 02:23 AM
Watch this video, count the people as they go past.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFpJGL0jIjI

Then watch part 2 and keep counting:cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OllkHmdjAc&feature=related

Hahah :D -> :cool:

Seriously, I wish that person luck.

Expatriate
07-16-2008, 02:24 PM
You also have to realize that those 2 videos end way before the march is over, so there are a lot more people than you can even count there. I was a ways back behind the mini-blimp, so I'm not even in those videos:(

Does anyone know of a video of the ENTIRE march going past?

Barney
07-16-2008, 04:21 PM
Watch this video, count the people as they go past.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFpJGL0jIjI

Then watch part 2 and keep counting:cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OllkHmdjAc&feature=related


Most NBA venues has a capacity crowd of 20,000. It's hard to imagine that endless stream of people can't fill a Knicks game at MSG.

ItsTime
07-16-2008, 04:43 PM
just call the DC police and ask for the est of the march. well one person call and ask... not all 10k of you :)

Adam Kokesh
07-16-2008, 05:13 PM
Obviously, there were more than 19 people involved with 9/11. I was just talking about reframing and messaging, and yes, I believe that terrorism is a real problem. Don't quote me out of context. I realize that "the terrorism problem" is a minuscule one compared to the corruption one.

Chuck Baldwin was getting very agitated about the delays and was trying to sneak in front of me at the stairs. Not exactly presidential behavior.

Oyate
07-16-2008, 10:56 PM
Chuck Baldwin was getting very agitated about the delays and was trying to sneak in front of me at the stairs. Not exactly presidential behavior.

Yo Adam-dawg!

Do you think these guys get to be political figures by being push overs? They are aggressive as hell. Stay close to R3VOlUTION Marshals. We're the nice guys. ;)

-Oyate

Susan Wolfe
07-17-2008, 12:03 AM
You also have to realize that those 2 videos end way before the march is over, so there are a lot more people than you can even count there. I was a ways back behind the mini-blimp, so I'm not even in those videos:(

Does anyone know of a video of the ENTIRE march going past?

I'm not in the videos either - I TOO was behind the blimp! And, there were many, many more people behind me! I was at the rally for several minutes, and had even walked up the the stage area to get my pass, then back down the lawn toward where the march was coming from, and it finally ended about 5 minutes after that! It was HUGE. The DC march and rally is the biggest thing I've ever been involved with - and I attended the Great Midwest Marijuana Harvest Festival in Madison, Wisconsin a few years back! lol

Anyway - I, too, am no expert. But I also have NO reason to inflate numbers, when there is video evidence contrary to there having been only 2,000 people at the march. There were WAY more than 2,000 people there.

Thanks!

Susan Wolfe

TheSkeptic
07-17-2008, 09:33 AM
I don't know if anyone has said there were only around 2,000 at the march...my figure of 1,000-1,500 (maybe 2,000 at the upper limit) was for the actual rally. Doesn't matter much though, I think the turnout was good and the rally was awesome overall.



Susan,

Did the Ronvoy end up camping in Kingsport, TN? I tried to get in touch with you a couple of times about it...

ronpaulhawaii
07-17-2008, 09:49 AM
I don't know if anyone has said there were only around 2,000 at the march...my figure of 1,000-1,500 (maybe 2,000 at the upper limit) was for the actual rally. Doesn't matter much though, I think the turnout was good and the rally was awesome overall.



Susan,

Did the Ronvoy end up camping in Kingsport, TN? I tried to get in touch with you a couple of times about it...

Intersting that you stick to your guns, in spite of the overwhelming evidence indicating your inability to accurately guesstimate crowd size. My brother is an engineer, who attends lots of these kind things, and has always enjoyed the mental gymnastics of crowd-counting. He pointed out to me his block-counting method, and there were more than you estimate lining one wall, all day.

mport1
07-17-2008, 12:36 PM
Also if you really think Ron Paul believes 19 Arabs did 9/11 then you don't know Ron Paul at all. He is not an idiot, and IMO, only an idiot would think 19 Arabs did it.

You do realize that RP is not a truther right? He has been preaching about the idea of blowback for years and it is one of his main foreign policy points. He DOES believe 19 Arabs were involved on terrorism, whether you want to deny this or not. Sorry to burst your bubble.

James Gragg
07-20-2008, 04:40 PM
What the hell is this "arguement" all about? Even the D.C. police stated that there were in "excess of 14,000." What do you "need?" A head count delivered to you from GOD himself?? Personally, I "believe" that there was more than that.

Today there was a D.C. Rally by an African/American sourity(sp?) celebrating 100 years of existance, had MAYBE 1,000 attendies, and they got 15 minutes "air time" on msnbc. WTF?

RickyJ
07-20-2008, 08:58 PM
You do realize that RP is not a truther right? He has been preaching about the idea of blowback for years and it is one of his main foreign policy points. He DOES believe 19 Arabs were involved on terrorism, whether you want to deny this or not. Sorry to burst your bubble.

You do realize that Ron Paul is not an idiot, right? Of course he and ALL congressmen and women that are NOT idiots KNOW that 9/11 was an inside job. If I thought for one moment Ron Paul really did think 19 Arabs did it then I would not support him at all. I have no doubt he knows the truth.

Mongoose470
07-20-2008, 09:10 PM
You do realize that Ron Paul is not an idiot, right? Of course he and ALL congressmen and women that are NOT idiots KNOW that 9/11 was an inside job. If I thought for one moment Ron Paul really did think 19 Arabs did it then I would not support him at all. I have no doubt he knows the truth.

and, to propagate the illusion that he doesn't believe in 9/11 truth, he approved of military action to invade Afghanistan, specifically to bring Bin laden and Al Qaeda to justice? He approved the 9/11 report? He sent troops to their death to maintain an illusion that he opposes 9/11 truth? To this day, he still advocates bringing Bin Laden to justice.

Are those all part of his grand charade to fool the public? If so you've sprung upon yet another incredible conspiracy theory. Incredible as in lacking credibility.

TheSkeptic
07-21-2008, 11:30 PM
Sorry, but if Ron Paul was a truther, he would just say it.

The man had the balls to say that 9/11 was our fault (in other terms), and that the drug laws should be repealed, on national TV. Surely he could squeeze in a little "oh yeah, 9/11 was an inside job" or two.



Susan,

Glad to hear that. As I've said to others, we will have to agree to disagree. It's kind of irrelevant anyway.

ronpaulblogsdotcom
07-22-2008, 02:24 AM
Come on guys - look at the title of this thread. Lets try to stay on topic.

I think 14,000 does not seem so far fetched. I have some history counting people as I worked at a Resort and we would have to count people in a room to make sure we were not getting over the fire marshalls limit for a room. Typically we would section off a large hall at some point and have a person quick count a section. People standing and people sitting. The room we had held 600 people and was about 25 meters by 80 meters. And that was with a dance floor, 2 Bars, and everyone sat at round tables.

People standing take less space than you would think.

tribute_13
07-22-2008, 03:05 AM
What have I learned from this thread?



Counts heads at St. Paul....

Miexon
07-22-2008, 10:44 PM
definitely the turnout was pretty good imo. Could have been a lot bigger but gaining steam!

ChickenHawk
07-22-2008, 10:57 PM
There were a million people there. Sue anyone who says different.