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View Full Version : how bad will the economic crisis be?




SouthGeorgia61
07-13-2008, 11:29 PM
Do you think it will be worse than 1929? 30 dollars for a gallon of milk? We all know its going to happen, but i'm not sure the extinct of the upcoming awfulness.

muzzled dogg
07-13-2008, 11:32 PM
lol extinct

JosephTheLibertarian
07-13-2008, 11:59 PM
Do you think it will be worse than 1929? 30 dollars for a gallon of milk? We all know its going to happen, but i'm not sure the extinct of the upcoming awfulness.

I don't know and, quite frankly, I don't care. I have realized that we have is mob rule where the sheep of society choose our bad leaders for us. I guess not even a constitutional federal republic is good enough for humanity what we really need is no government. We won't get that anytime soon; enjoy the ride down tyrant lane, friends.

It's true, though, when you think about it, the MAJORITY of those that vote decide our representatives, so how is that any different than a direct democracy? At least we get to actually decide things in a direct democracy, instead of electing assholes to do it for us and fuck us over, time and time again.

Paulfan05
07-14-2008, 12:00 AM
I think it will get pretty bad but not for a long time, there will be a change either more or less gov. who knows?

robert4rp08
07-14-2008, 12:53 AM
http://www.kwaves.com/kond_overview.htm

jkm1864
07-14-2008, 01:06 AM
maybe we will see the government shrink ... Maybe we will see the welfare state fall and people act responsibly for once. Hell I know its alot to wish for but maybe it will get better but if statistics and history show anything we'll probably get a tyrant.

buffalokid777
07-14-2008, 01:12 AM
Do you think it will be worse than 1929? 30 dollars for a gallon of milk? We all know its going to happen, but i'm not sure the extinct of the upcoming awfulness.

It's gonna be worse than any of us can imagine until our government puts tarriffs on products from companies who export to us who pay slave wages to their workers........

But instead of trusting my humble opinion......check out the opinions of Paul Craig Roberts (The father of reaganomics)....

http://www.prisonplanet.com/watching-greed-murder-the-economy.html

idiom
07-14-2008, 04:26 AM
The national dept is about to be doubled by bailing out Fannie & Freddie. This is fairly widely expected to cause a run on the U.S. Dollar. FRNs could tank heavily as the US goes into hyper-inflation to save what remains of the banking system.

It could be really really really bad for quite a while. Also, if you take the energy crisis onto the end of it, there is really no long term plan to recover to the lifestyles we enjoy now.

Think of it as the last recession.

Kludge
07-14-2008, 04:31 AM
//

Real_CaGeD
07-14-2008, 05:09 AM
Your all still living in fantasy land.

"The Dollar is dead." Rogers

If you still believe the Government 911 tale, you have failed in your duty as a citizen to this great nation. The evidence is OVERWHELMING.

Start your own investigation with the Larry McDonald video, from 1981.

The MSM is just another alphabet agency.
The two party system today is just like pro wrestling.
The handful of multinational globalist that are in control of our nation, does not care about you.

You must face these few truths before you can progress further in your ideological goals.

nobody's_hero
07-14-2008, 05:36 AM
Extent.

The extent of the upcoming crisis, I hope (but at the same time, I don't hope :( ) will be bad enough that a majority of Americans will finally wake up.

Yet, I think the government would somehow hand out milk-vouchers and take all the credit for stepping in and getting us out of the crisis.

We'd be right back to the drawing board.

glts
07-14-2008, 06:11 AM
will be bad enough that a majority of Americans will finally wake up.



I think you are a little too optimistic. Things will get so bad that the people will say YES WE WILL ACCEPT the national ID, the NAU, the Amero, and more loss of liberty. Sadly the only time most people will finally will wakeup is when they are in shackles in a prison camp.

armstrong
07-14-2008, 08:26 AM
agree, little to little too late,but agree people will wake up -but to late.

weslinder
07-14-2008, 09:05 AM
The economy is going to be great. In 2017, when the Social Security Administration no longer is taking in enough money to cover what's going out and they go to the general fund with their IOUs which won't be able to pay it. Social Security payments will stop (or be severely cut), and retirees will have to go back to work. Production will increase incredibly, and the economy will boom.

(Of course, some idiot in Washington might decide to tax or borrow to fund Social Security, and get in the way, but as of now, I'm predicting an economic boom.)

JRegs85
07-14-2008, 09:06 AM
It will be pretty bad...but I am optimistic that it will wake people up and they will start holding those on Capitol Hill accountable (everyone except Ron Paul).

powerofreason
07-14-2008, 09:09 AM
Hopefully not as bad as this: http://www.rogershermansociety.org/yugoslavia.htm

Put some of your money in gold, silver, or at least a foreign currency. The Swiss Franc is still backed by gold I think.

TheSkeptic
07-14-2008, 09:19 AM
When the shit hits the fan, the people will completely accept socialism.

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
07-14-2008, 09:28 AM
Social Security payments will stop (or be severely cut), and retirees will have to go back to work. Production will increase incredibly, and the economy will boom.

(Of course, some idiot in Washington might decide to tax or borrow to fund Social Security, and get in the way, but as of now, I'm predicting an economic boom.)

Not sure if you were being sarcastic but

Production will increase incredibly with an extra 10 million grocery store baggers?
Not to mention their health care costs will increase with the stress from working.

Retirees contribute to society the most by instilling wisdom and virtue in the young, not by greeting us at Walmart.

RonPaulVolunteer
07-14-2008, 09:29 AM
were going to be fine.... if not I think well grow, in 2012 I'm going to say that 50% of cars will be run on Electric/other source than gas.

2012. 4 YEARS? Ahh... no!

Maximus
07-16-2008, 01:58 AM
We will be in a bull economy two summers from now, with more paulites at the helm

Ozwest
07-16-2008, 05:53 AM
Military - economic fascism empowers wealthy, intelligent, and influential members of the public, removing them from potential opponents and resisters of the state and directing them toward aiders and perpetuators of the state's existence thereby weakening civil society and promoting the exploitation of those outside the state.

Pots of honey attract flies, and pots of money attract unscrupulous private parties, thieves, and con men.

They all converge on the morally dismal swamp known as Washington D.C.

LittleLightShining
07-16-2008, 06:36 AM
Extent.

The extent of the upcoming crisis, I hope (but at the same time, I don't hope :( ) will be bad enough that a majority of Americans will finally wake up.

Yet, I think the government would somehow hand out milk-vouchers and take all the credit for stepping in and getting us out of the crisis.

We'd be right back to the drawing board.


I think you are a little too optimistic. Things will get so bad that the people will say YES WE WILL ACCEPT the national ID, the NAU, the Amero, and more loss of liberty. Sadly the only time most people will finally will wakeup is when they are in shackles in a prison camp.


When the shit hits the fan, the people will completely accept socialism.
Yes. Yes. Yes.

I'm even starting to think this way. if my husband loses his job he would be hard pressed to find a comparable one to replace it. Unemployment only goes so far. I could get a job, but aside from being enthusiastic and a decent communicator I have no training, no formal education. We don't believe in day care so we'd need to go back to working opposite shifts like we did when our first was born. I have no credit cards. I have one car payment. The only real extras we have are cable/internet and life insurance and even with what my husband makes now we're living paycheck to paycheck. We're comfortable now but not if he loses his job-- which is highly likely at this point. Blah blah blah... I'll stop whining. But food stamps may be in my future and I don't think I'm libertarian or proud enough not to do what I have to to feed my kids.

Ozwest
07-16-2008, 06:46 AM
The government, corporations, and media, systematically "dupe" a increasingly lethargic society into mindless subservience, trained to entertain simple propaganda and accept it willingly.

The "economic crisis" will continue endlessly until people tire of being pushed back into the mud.

smithtg
07-16-2008, 06:53 AM
were going to be fine.... if not I think well grow, in 2012 I'm going to say that 50% of cars will be run on Electric/other source than gas.

this is BS. Why dont people get it that shifting the "energy" used to propel cars from internal combustion to electric would require huge changes to our electric infrastruture. Even if the car companies could mass produce a cheap electric car, once everyone plugs them in just watch the blackouts. Stupid generalized statement above; use some common sense

dont even come back and say the "other source" could be hydrogen - that is a whole different BS story.

How about people giving up their 8mpg SUVs as a minimal start?

Ozwest
07-16-2008, 07:11 AM
this is BS. Why dont people get it that shifting the "energy" used to propel cars from internal combustion to electric would require huge changes to our electric infrastruture. Even if the car companies could mass produce a cheap electric car, once everyone plugs them in just watch the blackouts. Stupid generalized statement above; use some common sense

dont even come back and say the "other source" could be hydrogen - that is a whole different BS story.

How about people giving up their 8mpg SUVs as a minimal start?

That is a big generalization on your part smithtg.

There is plenty of coal about, and I know...

Coal is a heavy polluter, but compared to millions of vehicles running on combustible engines, coal powered stations would have a minimal environmental impact in comparison.

Hydrogen is years off...

noxagol
07-16-2008, 07:15 AM
That is a big generalization on your part smithtg.

There is plenty of coal about, and I know...

Coal is a heavy polluter, but compared to millions of vehicles running on combustible engines, coal powered stations would have a minimal environmental impact in comparison.

Hydrogen is years off...

Negative good sir. The same amount of energy is required and coal is a much heavier polluter than gasoline is. Not to mention a lot of energy is wasted when you power with combustion in heat and then electricity gets wasted moving through the lines because of resistance, electric generation is only about 25% efficient and combustion is only about 30% efficient so you end up with about 7.5% of the coal energy actually being applied to cars whereas you have 30% of the energy being put to use in gasoline engines. Therefore, you would have to burn four times the amount of energy in coal as you do in gasoline.

Ozwest
07-16-2008, 07:25 AM
Negative good sir. The same amount of energy is required and coal is a much heavier polluter than gasoline is. Not to mention a lot of energy is wasted when you power with combustion in heat and then electricity gets wasted moving through the lines because of resistance, electric generation is only about 25% efficient and combustion is only about 30% efficient so you end up with about 7.5% of the coal energy actually being applied to cars whereas you have 30% of the energy being put to use in gasoline engines. Therefore, you would have to burn four times the amount of energy in coal as you do in gasoline.

Compare apples to apples, not to oranges.

What criteria are you using to draw these conclusions?

On face value, according to your analysis we should be using oil to fuel electrical power stations.

I am neither a chemist or engineer, but something doesn't add up...

smithtg
07-16-2008, 07:33 AM
That is a big generalization on your part smithtg.

There is plenty of coal about, and I know...

Coal is a heavy polluter, but compared to millions of vehicles running on combustible engines, coal powered stations would have a minimal environmental impact in comparison.

Hydrogen is years off...

im not going to get into a spat (too bad) just read my post i said the "infrastructure" would not change quick enough to handle such a load change. I am an engineer and have friends that are engineers, and in "general" we feel the politicians and public dont have a clue about how these 'ideas' even work

noxagol
07-16-2008, 07:40 AM
Compare apples to apples, not to oranges.

What criteria are you using to draw these conclusions?

On face value, according to your analysis we should be using oil to fuel electrical power stations.

I am neither a chemist or engineer, but something doesn't add up...

I am comparing apples to apples, energy.

When producing electricity, only 25% of the energy put in gets converted to electrical energy, the other 75% to heat. (or so)

According to wikipedia, the highest amount of energy in coal is <35,380 KJ/Kg. That is, each kilogram has 35,380 joules of energy, enough energy to heat 35,380 kilograms of water ONE degree.

Regular gasoline, again according to wikipedia, has 44.4 MJ/Kg Thats, 44,400,000 joules per kilogram.

Interal combustion engines are 30-33% efficient, that is, only 30-33% of the energy used in the combustion gets converted to mechanical energy, the rest is lost out of the exhaust pipe. So that 44.4 MJ gets turned to 14.8MJ of driving power.

You have to burn 1254 or so kilograms of coal to match the energy in ONE kilogram of regular gasoline, and that's if you were burning coal in your engine.

However, you have to consider the electrical generation waste of energy of 25% and multiply the amount of goal by 4, 5019 kilograms of coal to produce the same amount of energy in electicity in your car, and then you have to consider the waste when the electrical energy gets converted to mechanical energy, which drops it even more.

Thus now to produce the same amount of mechanical energy to power your car as a kilogram of gas does you need over 5000 kilograms of coal.

We use gas instead of oil because gas is less viscous and more volatile than pure crude oil.

Ozwest
07-16-2008, 07:40 AM
im not going to get into a spat (too bad) just read my post i said the "infrastructure" would not change quick enough to handle such a load change. I am an engineer and have friends that are engineers, and in "general" we feel the politicians and public dont have a clue about how these 'ideas' even work


I am no font smithtg :D.

But battery technology excites me.