I give up (not what you think)

[nate4ron]

This is going to be a quick post and I'm going to to leave out details, since I'm mentally drained right now.

To make an extremely long story short, my family and friends around me (roughly 20 people, excluding my immediate family) are all passionate Barack Obama supporters who know very little about politics and the important issues. All they are sure of is that they hate George W. Bush, and his War in Iraq, and that Obama gives inspiring speeches. Period. Nothing more.

I have had discussions with them about Ron Paul, and more recently, Bob Barr. The closest I have gotten to convincing them is when a few people finally admitted that "Obama will probably not pull through on his promises of pulling the troops out of Iraq or returning to a sensible foreign policy."

Even still, they tell me they are going to vote for Obama, and that it is smarter to vote for the lesser of two evils than to waste a vote! They even want me to just forget about Ron Paul or Bob Barr and to join then in voting for Obama. I tried to explain the myth of the "wasted vote" but they did not particularly care to hear me out.

I had hopes of converting a couple dozen Obama votes to Barr, but I am running out of steam.

And here I have people like Sean Hannity telling me that Bob Barr is an exclusive spoiler to John McCain... :rolleyes:

Ever since Ron Paul opened my eyes, I have learned so much, yet it is very difficult and frustrating trying to communicate my rationale to others who would rather watch a Family Guy marathon than have a down-to-earth, non-confrontational talk about politics.

[Kraig]

Don't even talk about politics, start teaching them thoroughly about the Federal Reserve.

[ladyjade3]

We're your family too.

[The_Orlonater]

I gave up too...

[TastyWheat]

What was it that changed all of our minds? Chances are it was disappointment. I was disappointed in the Republican party. If you can't convince them with words they'll just have to wait until Obama screws them all over. If you're willing to give it one last shot you should talk to all of your friends and family and find out what their #1 issue is. Before the first debate theirs a good chance Obama will change his mind on those issues.

[WarDog]

Nate let them know about the FISA bill and how Obama betrayed the Move on peeps.
These people are Dumb Downed. When Obama voted yes on that bill he essentially
betrayed all his supporters big time.

It is very clear that this man is a Punk Lier and Neo Con. Tell them how Ron never voted for a congresional pay raise and that the others vote themselves more pay and health Bennies
at tax payers expense. I am sure you have done all this so if they refuse to listen it is to there own doom.

We all know your frustration and I myself cant even get my two boys to see this like we do. It is my conclusion that we as brothers and sisters are Eagles in a nest of vultures.
So you can see that it is difficult to fly. But take heart cause when the Eagles flies he is king of the skies. And this Eagle along with the rest of this movement will fly and protect what is rightfully ours cause we cant let the forefathers downed now can we.

[electronicmaji]

Simply putt to the common man Bobb Barr and Baldwin votes are wasted votes; its never gonna change anything. There running THIRD PARTIES. Not even independently. Third Parties never do anything; even if they got a record showing; they wouldn't even make the news. People just don't care.

[nate4ron]

Nate let them know about the FISA bill and how Obama betrayed the Move on peeps.
These people are Dumb Downed. When Obama voted yes on that bill he essentially
betrayed all his supporters big time.

I explained Obama's support of the FISA bill and his aggressive foreign policy attitude, especially with concerns to Pakistan, but it didn't make any difference to them. The best I can get is out of them is to admit that Obama is not who they think he is, yet they do not want to waste their vote. They even think I'm being delusional, and that I should switch my vote from Barr to Obama.

[SnappleLlama]

I feel your pain...I really do. One of my best friends is an Obama supporter, and there's nothing I can do to convince him that Obama is the wrong choice for this country...

[Kludge]

Simply putt to the common man Bobb Barr and Baldwin votes are wasted votes; its never gonna change anything. There running THIRD PARTIES. Not even independently. Third Parties never do anything; even if they got a record showing; they wouldn't even make the news. People just don't care.

You complain about the problem, offer no solution, and continue to exacerbate it.



@ OP :

Convert those you know to libertarianism (and MAKE SURE to emphasize propertarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propertarianism)). We can argue more then politics and issues in a vacuum, we have principles.

A conversion doesn't come from casual conversation about politics. You cannot be non-confrontational, it simply isn't an option. People crave to learn, teach them to think in a new way, not just about one thing in a different way.

So often in canvassing, we're taught to get as many votes as possible in the most efficient manner, skipping over those with misguided principles they're willing to defend and those with a philosophical malaise. Once someone is aware of private property - TRUE private property, it's difficult to pry them away from learning about libertarianism. My favorite example is that of property tax, that no one in America owns land except for an organizational concept we call government. We pay rent to the government to keep our land, and if we miss a payment, are imprisoned.

Private property is such an amazing concept, and one we must all strive toward. Once we own ourselves, we own everything we are capable of, we'll be absolutely free.

[Kade]

Nate let them know about the FISA bill and how Obama betrayed the Move on peeps.
These people are Dumb Downed. When Obama voted yes on that bill he essentially
betrayed all his supporters big time.

It is very clear that this man is a Punk Lier and Neo Con. Tell them how Ron never voted for a congresional pay raise and that the others vote themselves more pay and health Bennies
at tax payers expense. I am sure you have done all this so if they refuse to listen it is to there own doom.

We all know your frustration and I myself cant even get my two boys to see this like we do. It is my conclusion that we as brothers and sisters are Eagles in a nest of vultures.
So you can see that it is difficult to fly. But take heart cause when the Eagles flies he is king of the skies. And this Eagle along with the rest of this movement will fly and protect what is rightfully ours cause we cant let the forefathers downed now can we.

I take offense to this...

I think you should stop calling the liberals who support Obama "dumbed down". They can be reached, and they ought not to have your dumb asses insulting them... most of them are vastly more intelligent than the clowns on this forum.

[Andrew-Austin]

Try using examples in the news to put what your saying in context. No need to give up completely, just everyonce in a while remind them why it would be a waste to vote for Obama instead of voting for who they truly think would be the best Prez. The election is still a ways off, and its not the end of the world if you don't convert them.


I take offense to this...

I think you should stop calling the liberals who support Obama "dumbed down". They can be reached, and they ought not to have your dumb asses insulting them... most of them are vastly more intelligent than the clowns on this forum.


Intelligence =/= wisdom&knowledge?

Knowledgable Obama supporters seem to be a very small minority, I get the feeling you do not visit any Obama forums.

[micahnelson]

I take offense to this...

I think you should stop calling the liberals who support Obama "dumbed down". They can be reached, and they ought not to have your dumb asses insulting them... most of them are vastly more intelligent than the clowns on this forum.

/agreed

How many of us here voted for Bush at least once?

[Kade]

/agreed

How many of us here voted for Bush at least once?

Many here did, and I will call names if I have to...

I never did... and I bet I am one of the few.

[micahnelson]

I was a Bush voter.

I did it. I did it two times, though thankfully my electoral votes went the other way. God bless the electoral college.

[Jaaaman]

I voted for GW twice... he was a far better choice than either Al Gore or John Kerry. I don't regret my choice.

[Kade]

Here is an easy way to reach a liberal:

My question: What do you know about the Federal Reserve?

Liberal Response: I don't know much about it, but I believe it is the central banking system that is used to prevent bank runs and panics.

My response: Do you know that it is privately owned, and barely accountable to the people?

Liberal response: Oh Shit.

You see, the liberal brain doesn't need expansive details... they can figure things out themselves... just give them facts, and they will come to a conclusion.

[Kludge]

My response: privately owned

Liberal response: Oh Shit.

Did you really have to say anything else? :p

[brandon]

You see, the liberal brain doesn't need expansive details
Are you talking about this? :D
http://deyan.dyankov.name/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/liberal_brainthumbnail.jpg

[Kade]

I voted for GW twice... he was a far better choice than either Al Gore or John Kerry. I don't regret my choice.

In your mind, it wasn't a mistake? If that is your stance... we have issue.

I don't know that Gore would have been worse... I don't see the economy suffering this badly.

Gore is much like Clinton... a "Radical Centrist", especially in regards to the economy... you have a really hard sell here.

[Kade]

Are you talking about this? :D
http://deyan.dyankov.name/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/liberal_brainthumbnail.jpg

That's pretty offensive.

I suppose I could post pretty pictures too:

http://dangerousintersection.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/republican-brain-lo-res.jpg

[brandon]

It's supposed to be funny, not offensive. ;)

And I voted for Nader in '04

[Kludge]

Lol @ Neo liberals/conservatives

[Kludge]

I voted for Nader in '04

Looooooseeeer...

[brandon]

Looooooseeeer...

It was mostly a protest vote. The Dem's in PA conspired to block him from getting ballot access. I decided to write him in because I didn't like any of the other candidates at the time.

If I could go back in time I would vote for Badnarik now.

[Andrew-Austin]

Are you talking about this? :D

"Moral relativty gray area"

Hilarious.

[nate4ron]

Wow, it got a bit heated in here. I don't advocate calling Obama supporters, or my family and friends for this matter, "stupid dummies." After all, I too am a former neoconservative who voted twice for George W. Bush.

I agree that it's not a waste of time to plant the seeds of ideas in their heads now for the sake of the future; property rights, self-responsibility, individualism, liberty, sound money, sensible foreign policy, the danger of the two current dominant parties, etc. However, as I've said before, as it stands now, they don't want to "waste" their vote. I cannot get any further than that, sadly.

I did have a victory today, just 20 minutes ago! A friend of the family visited us down here from up north, and he noticed the sign on the back of our cars that has the names of Obama and McCain scratched out with "Barr '08!" on the bottom. He questioned me about this. Here is a summary of how the conversation went:

Him: "Who is this Barr?"

Me: "Well, he's the Libertarian candidate who most closely aligns himself with the beliefs of Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan, especially with regards to foreign policy. You might recall that wh..."

Him: "You've got yourself a voter! I fell in love with Ron Paul when I read about him! I can't stand Obama, but I didn't think I had any other choices. Screw Obama! I'm voting for this Barr fellow!"

We went on to discuss the logics of foreign policy and personal responsibilies and found ourselves to be very similar. So he and his wife will be voting for Bob Barr in November.

Sorry, Obama, but you just lost two votes to Barr! I must apologize.

As for the 20 or so family and friends around me, I can't get my hopes up. I've nearly exhausted myself with them. I will, however, try to inform them whenever the chance arises, at least for future's sake.

[armstrong]

lol that was funny

[RonPaulR3VOLUTION]

I take offense to this...

I think you should stop calling the liberals who support Obama "dumbed down". They can be reached, and they ought not to have your dumb asses insulting them... most of them are vastly more intelligent than the clowns on this forum.

While I agree that calling Obama supporters "dumbed down" isn't helpful, the idea that "most of them are vastly more intelligent than the clowns on this forum" is quite silly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wPDg9y_bpM&eurl

You did say 'liberals' who support him, but I'm assuming the majority who support Obama would call themselves liberals.

Besides, I don't see how Obama is really any better than Bush *originally* was. Obama is wrapping Bush's policies up in a prettier package and leaving enough room for one to interpret them into being whatever one wants. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBVHJY-RNSA In other words, Obama is more Bush than Bush was when he first ran.

On the other hand, to give credit where credit is due, Obama has been taking a harsh beating on Dem sites for weeks now. That is a very positive sign. Many Democrats have started to voice the concern that I've mentioned below.

Then again...
Glenn Greenwald, Salon.com: "In the past 24 hours, specifically beginning with the moment Barack Obama announced that he now supports the Cheney/Rockefeller/Hoyer House bill, there have magically arisen -- in places where one would never have expected to find them -- all sorts of claims about why this FISA "compromise" isn't really so bad after all."
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/21/obama/

My concern, long before these more recent events, was that Obama would do to the Dem party what Bush did to the Rep party. It will be interesting to see how that turns out. It wouldn't bother me if it was shown my concerns were unwarranted.

All of that aside, elections don't seem to have much to do with intelligence. Blind loyalty to a party -- and the influence of the media -- seem to be more relevant than voter intelligence.

"If America was a smarter country, wouldn't [Ron Paul] be leading in the polls?" --Bill Maher

[kombayn]

Simply putt to the common man Bobb Barr and Baldwin votes are wasted votes; its never gonna change anything. There running THIRD PARTIES. Not even independently. Third Parties never do anything; even if they got a record showing; they wouldn't even make the news. People just don't care.

I personally rather vote for an independent candidate right now than either Barack Obama or John McCain. They're both part of the statist-quo. Obama completely lost me after he supported the new FISA bill. Right there I realized, we're going to be at war for another 4 years, sure we'll get out of Iraq but we're simply going to redeploy to the Afghanistan/Pakistan border and keep trying to strong-arm Iran.

[electronicmaji]

I personally rather vote for an independent candidate right now than either Barack Obama or John McCain. They're both part of the statist-quo. Obama completely lost me after he supported the new FISA bill. Right there I realized, we're going to be at war for another 4 years, sure we'll get out of Iraq but we're simply going to redeploy to the Afghanistan/Pakistan border and keep trying to strong-arm Iran.

OH feel free to do that; just realize that your vote won't be worth two shits and no one will give a fuck. Probably ever.

[pacelli]

OH feel free to do that; just realize that your vote won't be worth two shits and no one will give a fuck. Probably ever.

Wrong. I give a fuck.

[brandon]

OH feel free to do that; just realize that your vote won't be worth two shits and no one will give a fuck. Probably ever.

Why are you still here? Didn't get any responses on your OK Cupid personal ad?

[electronicmaji]

I voted for GW twice... he was a far better choice than either Al Gore or John Kerry. I don't regret my choice.

So Bush was better, and did better then either of those candidates would have?

Kludge was right about people on this forum being stupid. Its downright neanderthal in here.

[electronicmaji]

Why are you still here? Didn't get any responses on your OK Cupid personal ad?

Ok lets bring this up; What exactly is wrong with having a online personal, jesus fucking christ on a pogo stick! Can someone explain this to me? Hmm?

[HOLLYWOOD]

In your mind, it wasn't a mistake? If that is your stance... we have issue.

I don't know that Gore would have been worse... I don't see the economy suffering this badly.

Gore is much like Clinton... a "Radical Centrist", especially in regards to the economy... you have a really hard sell here.

View Jaaaman's; create date, Avatar & Posts, this will give you a bit of a insight, until then:

"A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception within an Internet community. In its earliest usage, a sockpuppet was a false identity through which a member of an Internet community speaks while pretending not to, like a puppeteer manipulating a hand puppet.

In current usage, the perception of the term has been extended beyond second identities of people who already post in a forum to include other uses of misleading online identities. For example, a NY Times article claims that "sock-puppeting" is defined as "the act of creating a fake online identity to praise, defend or create the illusion of support for one’s self, allies or company."

Always point out how the average American Citizen/TAXPAYER - PAYS for ALL the government ACTIONS BAILOUTS, AID, FOREIGN EMPIRE BUILDING, etc etc

For the thread... I voted NADER ;)

[muh_roads]

Don't even talk about politics, start teaching them thoroughly about the Federal Reserve.

Yep. Then rub it in their face when you make a killing on gold & silver 4 years from now.

[Leroy_Jenkems]

As the video presentation "How to Sell Liberty" outlined, you should FIRST "make their issue your issue" (i.e. seek first to understand, then to be understood), and THEN start putting the issue(s) into perspective of Ron Paul's position and voting record vs Barack Obama's voting record. If you create a "my guy versus your guy" conversation right from the get-go, it'll turn them off. But, if you start with the issue, like a previous replier here did by suggesting you discuss the Federal Reserve, you can ease them into the "meat" of the argument.

I feel you, man; trying to convince these Bible Belters that just because Huckabee was a preacher and had Chuck Norris following him around, didn't mean he knew how to strengthen our economy and stop overseas anti-Americanism. Good luck.

[Libertarian Ideals]

EDIT: Ignore. Basically everything in my post was said before. (That's why its a good idea to read some previous comments before you post...)



... I had hopes of converting ...



You still can! :D

How to Sell Liberty:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_shEnY_lcQI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLFGjeXQuE8


Or here's a book you can buy (never read but it looks helpful, and they say it is in high demand)
http://www.theadvocates.org/secrets.html

[Andrew-Austin]

So Bush was better, and did better then either of those candidates would have?

Kludge was right about people on this forum being stupid. Its downright neanderthal in here.

You best actually make some legitimate point here, instead of just serving as the forum's whining contrarian, to be able to call the membership here stupid.

[electronicmaji]

You best actually make some legitimate point here, instead of just serving as the forum's whining contrarian, to be able to call the membership here stupid.

Thinking that Bush would be a better President than ANY HUMAN BEING.

Bush was a devolved human being; a chimp with a mindset to match; Easily the stupidest human being on earth.

A 3 year old baby could be a better president then him.

[Doktor_Jeep]

This is going to be a quick post and I'm going to to leave out details, since I'm mentally drained right now.

To make an extremely long story short, my family and friends around me (roughly 20 people, excluding my immediate family) are all passionate Barack Obama supporters who know very little about politics and the important issues. All they are sure of is that they hate George W. Bush, and his War in Iraq, and that Obama gives inspiring speeches. Period. Nothing more.

I have had discussions with them about Ron Paul, and more recently, Bob Barr. The closest I have gotten to convincing them is when a few people finally admitted that "Obama will probably not pull through on his promises of pulling the troops out of Iraq or returning to a sensible foreign policy."

Even still, they tell me they are going to vote for Obama, and that it is smarter to vote for the lesser of two evils than to waste a vote! They even want me to just forget about Ron Paul or Bob Barr and to join then in voting for Obama. I tried to explain the myth of the "wasted vote" but they did not particularly care to hear me out.

I had hopes of converting a couple dozen Obama votes to Barr, but I am running out of steam.

And here I have people like Sean Hannity telling me that Bob Barr is an exclusive spoiler to John McCain... :rolleyes:

Ever since Ron Paul opened my eyes, I have learned so much, yet it is very difficult and frustrating trying to communicate my rationale to others who would rather watch a Family Guy marathon than have a down-to-earth, non-confrontational talk about politics.



This is like those scenes from those "living dead" films.

You have to accept that your "loved ones" are zombies now. Dead, especially in the head, but still walking.

They will eat your brains, as we already see. Sure your skull is not opened up and your sibling not actually feasting on your noodle but the end result matters.

You have to accept that they are gone and, like in the Romero fims, if you feel sorry for them or maintain an attachment you will end up becoming one of them or some other fate.


That's why a day may come when you might try to wake them up, lest they go the path of many Germans, or Russians, or pick any other group of the dead (by their own government).

And they will just drool at you, maybe giggle. Call you a nut.

So take up your BOB and split, and feel no pity or remorse for they are already gone.

[Kludge]

Thinking that Bush would be a better President than ANY HUMAN BEING.

Bush was a devolved human being; a chimp with a mindset to match; Easily the stupidest human being on earth.

A 3 year old baby could be a better president then him.

I <3 forum guidelines.

[Pauls' Revere]

Just had a small family reunion on 12JUL2008. I say it was revealing in that I saw or realized the depth and extent of the media brainwashing on the mass public. One good friend said McCain was great, and the next sentance his wife said Obama was the way to go. I couldn't even bring up ANY sort of alternative be it Ron Paul, Chuck Balwin, Bob Barr, Nader or any other candidate regardless. The world of American politics revolves around the republicrats. As though we have only two choices. I briefly mentioned indirectly the constitutionality of some issues and all I got was wierd looks like "whats that got to do with anyhting?". I have realized that people are generally very stupid and naive about these things. My brother-in-law told me American business scholls are the best in the world. I replied "with CEO's graduating to run companies like Tyco, Enron, Worldcom, etc... what basis was he acutually using to back up his opinion. Again, just a wierd look at me like I grew a third head, as though America is the only place business schools operate. I ask simple questions about the dollar weakness NOT price. It's the dollar weakness and the overspending in bailouts and welfare and all sorts of B.S. programs the government has no authority to fund. I was a stranger among family. It's like telling people I saw a UFO, or Bigfoot or the Swamp Mummy Boogieman or some sh*&t. I sat at the kids table and ate hotdogs and taught them all I knew. Surprisingly they were much more open minded and learned much.

[Kade]

You did say 'liberals' who support him, but I'm assuming the majority who support Obama would call themselves liberals.


False. Liberals are a distinct group in this country. I realize now that we have let ourselves be defined into a small and useless corner... My experience on this forum has shown me that the idea of a liberal is one that is bastardized and so misunderstood it borders irrational.

If you really want to think about it carefully, and step back... just look at the specific Obama supporters who are upset about FISA...

They haven't really let go either. Dailykos, Crooks and Liars, Smirking Chimp, Carpetbagger, Dissident Voice, etc...

Those are liberals. (and for the record, home to most of my op-eds and essays)

Do not mix us up with African-Americans, Socialists, Democrats, Unions, Feminists, etc...

We are a distinct group.

[brandon]

False. Liberals are a distinct group in this country. I realize now that we have let ourselves be defined into a small and useless corner... My experience on this forum has shown me that the idea of a liberal is one that is bastardized and so misunderstood it borders irrational.

If you really want to think about it carefully, and step back... just look at the specific Obama supporters who are upset about FISA...

They haven't really let go either. Dailykos, Crooks and Liars, Smirking Chimp, Carpetbagger, Dissident Voice, etc...

Those are liberals. (and for the record, home to most of my op-eds and essays)

Do not mix us up with African-Americans, Socialists, Democrats, Unions, Feminists, etc...

We are a distinct group.

I'm glad I don't belong to any groups. It sounds really confusing.

[Kade]

I'm glad I don't belong to any groups. It sounds really confusing.

You are so god damned clever Brandon. I wish I were like you, no seriously.

"I'm a forum superstar!!! YAY@!! I got him now! I am a super special non-conformist who doesn't deal with labels!!!"








Eat feces.

[CountryboyRonPaul]

Don't even talk about politics, start teaching them thoroughly about the Federal Reserve.

Do this


If they realize what the FED is doing they will realize the importance of NOT trusting the media, therefore questioning every candidate that is showered with free media coverage.

[angelatc]

Your time is better spent on the undecided voters. That's just a fact.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

This is going to be a quick post and I'm going to to leave out details, since I'm mentally drained right now.

To make an extremely long story short, my family and friends around me (roughly 20 people, excluding my immediate family) are all passionate Barack Obama supporters who know very little about politics and the important issues. All they are sure of is that they hate George W. Bush, and his War in Iraq, and that Obama gives inspiring speeches. Period. Nothing more.

I have had discussions with them about Ron Paul, and more recently, Bob Barr. The closest I have gotten to convincing them is when a few people finally admitted that "Obama will probably not pull through on his promises of pulling the troops out of Iraq or returning to a sensible foreign policy."

Even still, they tell me they are going to vote for Obama, and that it is smarter to vote for the lesser of two evils than to waste a vote! They even want me to just forget about Ron Paul or Bob Barr and to join then in voting for Obama. I tried to explain the myth of the "wasted vote" but they did not particularly care to hear me out.

I had hopes of converting a couple dozen Obama votes to Barr, but I am running out of steam.

And here I have people like Sean Hannity telling me that Bob Barr is an exclusive spoiler to John McCain... :rolleyes:

Ever since Ron Paul opened my eyes, I have learned so much, yet it is very difficult and frustrating trying to communicate my rationale to others who would rather watch a Family Guy marathon than have a down-to-earth, non-confrontational talk about politics.

Legal Abstinence
To establish an American movement, here are 10 rules of legal abstinence to follow.

Rule #1. Hate is un-American.

Rule #2. Never blame the people.

Rule #3. Never use the political spectrum as a playing field to bicker about politics.

Rule #4. Never give an interview with the media that isn't spontaneous, unedited and unrehearsed.

Rule #5. The singular Civil Purpose in the Constitution should supercede the traditional legal precedents created outside of it.

Rule #6. As law abiding American citizens, we should prefer imprisonment, torture, death and the fragrance of an outhouse to the tyranny of a courtroom.

Rule #7. As a winning political campaign is a victory for tyranny, establishing a bipartisan American Movement is a victory for the people.

Rule #8. False American Movements fail to implement fresh measures while they dig up obsolete legal precedents from the past to implement.

Rule #9. The debt of the people should not be burdened with any legal counterfeit created by any foreign or domestic tyranny.

Rule #10. As legal lobbying on the Federal level benefits the rule of tyranny, the civil invention created on the local level benefits the rule of the people.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

You are so god damned clever Brandon. I wish I were like you, no seriously.

"I'm a forum superstar!!! YAY@!! I got him now! I am a super special non-conformist who doesn't deal with labels!!!"
Eat feces.

Hate is un-American.

[Kade]

Hate is un-American.

It is very American.


It's not very liberal like though... you could say the forum has changed me in that regard... my bleeding heart is all but gone.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Thinking that Bush would be a better President than ANY HUMAN BEING.
Bush was a devolved human being; a chimp with a mindset to match; Easily the stupidest human being on earth.
A 3 year old baby could be a better president then him.

We should be careful not to offend the chimps. My ex-wife learned this the hard way when she accused me of being a pig in public. Well, before she new it, a 500 pound sow nearby bolted from her pin to bite her on the ankle.

[Kade]

We should be careful not to offend the chimps. My ex-wife learned this the hard way when she accused me of being a pig in public. Well, before she new it, a 500 pound sow nearby bolted from her pin to bite her on the ankle.

Ask not at whom the chimp smirks - he smirks at you.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

It is very American.


It's not very liberal like though... you could say the forum has changed me in that regard... my bleeding heart is all but gone.

Now you are blaming the people of being hateful when the American people have lost their souls. Our souls are defined in the formal document of the Declaration of Independence -- our legal divorce from tyranny -- and the formal document of the U.S. Constitution -- our marriage to a new proper government.

[PatriotG]

This is going to be a quick post and I'm going to to leave out details, since I'm mentally drained right now.

To make an extremely long story short, my family and friends around me (roughly 20 people, excluding my immediate family) are all passionate Barack Obama supporters who know very little about politics and the important issues. All they are sure of is that they hate George W. Bush, and his War in Iraq, and that Obama gives inspiring speeches. Period. Nothing more.

I have had discussions with them about Ron Paul, and more recently, Bob Barr. The closest I have gotten to convincing them is when a few people finally admitted that "Obama will probably not pull through on his promises of pulling the troops out of Iraq or returning to a sensible foreign policy."

Even still, they tell me they are going to vote for Obama, and that it is smarter to vote for the lesser of two evils than to waste a vote! They even want me to just forget about Ron Paul or Bob Barr and to join then in voting for Obama. I tried to explain the myth of the "wasted vote" but they did not particularly care to hear me out.

I had hopes of converting a couple dozen Obama votes to Barr, but I am running out of steam.

And here I have people like Sean Hannity telling me that Bob Barr is an exclusive spoiler to John McCain... :rolleyes:

Ever since Ron Paul opened my eyes, I have learned so much, yet it is very difficult and frustrating trying to communicate my rationale to others who would rather watch a Family Guy marathon than have a down-to-earth, non-confrontational talk about politics.


Print this out and hand it to them.

A Wasted Vote:
http://www.restoretherepublic.org/?p=170

I feel your pain man, its taken me close to a year just to convince a few close family members that RP is the man. That the remianing "Lead" candidates are just the same S--t rehashed.

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Print this out and hand it to them.

A Wasted Vote:
http://www.restoretherepublic.org/?p=170

I feel your pain man, its taken me close to a year just to convince a few close family members that RP is the man. That the remianing "Lead" candidates are just the same S--t rehashed.

The agenda of the American political movement is the only one we should trust as American people. Victory in this regards is not measured by the petty campaigns to elect tyrants into office but by the establishment of bipartisan support for a movement to reestablish our nation's formal documents -- The Declaration of Independence and The U.S. Constitution. Such movements in the past have ushered in new political parties while they have in turn helped reestablish our nation's two party system.
In fact, we should consider the campaign of Ron Paul as secondary in importance to the American movement which is taking shape on its peripheral. Because Dr. Ron Paul champions how the U.S. Constitution has been and is still being corrupted, he has become the primary American role model today serving as a clear window to the Founding Fathers.
Unfortunately, the movement behind Ron Paul has been diverted recently by the reclassification of his campaign to that of a revolutionary political science with a manifesto rather than he be presented as the figurehead for an American movement to lead us back to reconsecrate (make Holy) the Constitution. This action is going to serve to break up the bipartisan movement into just another petty partisan campaign.