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View Full Version : Barack Obama will destroy McCain, GOP needs to consider other candidates, please digg




speciallyblend
07-13-2008, 09:04 AM
http://ronpaulblogs.com/john-mccain/barack-obama-will-destroy-mccain-gop/

DIGG HERE:
http://digg.com/political_opinion/Barack_Obama_will_destroy_McCain_GOP_needs_to_cons ider_oth

:eek:

please spread far and wide,thank you kenny

PS i do not agree with the age factor,but Ron Paul isn't in bad shape like mccain......so the age argument wouldn't fly against Ron Paul who can run circles around the 50 yr olds;)

pauletteNV
07-13-2008, 09:31 AM
It looks like a race to be the 10,000 signer....if you haven't signed up yet...load on....71 to go!

mediahasyou
07-13-2008, 09:42 AM
duggg

angelatc
07-13-2008, 09:50 AM
I don't want another GOP candidate. Ron Paul did terrible in the primaries. They're not going to nominate him. All their candidates are essentially the same.

Let the GOP die so it can live again. The Carter years brought us Reagan. Maybe the Obama years can bring us a conservative too.

Jaaaman
07-13-2008, 09:54 AM
I don't want another GOP candidate. Ron Paul did terrible in the primaries. They're not going to nominate him. All their candidates are essentially the same.

Let the GOP die so it can live again. The Carter years brought us Reagan. Maybe the Obama years can bring us a conservative too.

McCain is our best hope against that marxist muslim Obama...

speciallyblend
07-13-2008, 09:59 AM
McCain is our best hope against that marxist muslim Obama...

???? please provide a link that obama is muslim ,cant help but notice lack of posts.....
ok sorry but if you think we are voting for mccain after what the gop has pulled on republicans. then you are truly dreaming.... socialism or fascism . I can promise you i will not vote for either ,but i sure will make sure every democrat goes to the polls. I think the gop better wise up and to be honest Ron Paul isn't out till the gop slams the door on their own election with mccain . Ron Paul did great ,it was the gop that marginilized his message and did everything against him... The only person in the republican party that has a chance to beat obama is RON PAUL, the gop is dying because of their own actions , dont blame us, BLAME THE GOP


www.lettertogop.com read it sign it and spread it, this is far from over 2 months is a mighty long time, mccains ship is sinking fast and soon will be the titanic of politics...

i will be making sure every republican that does not like mccain ,makes it to the voting booth;)

Jaaaman
07-13-2008, 10:03 AM
Ron Paul isn't out till the gop slams the door on their own election with mccain.
Ron Paul suspended his campaign weeks ago.

speciallyblend
07-13-2008, 10:05 AM
McCain is our best hope against that marxist muslim Obama...

if thats the line the gop/republicans think will make me and many republicans/independents vote for mccain, THEN HE HAS ALREADY LOST;)

ronpaulblogsdotcom
07-13-2008, 10:06 AM
Thanks for the original d1gg speciallyblend. I wrote that article and did it pretty quick. I didnt really get into that RP and MCsame are about the same age.

But RP is a doctor that has taken good care of his body. McCain was ignoring deep melonoma 8 years ago and had to have deep surgery to try to get it all. Did they get it all? Hard to say.

But I cant see him running at all in 4 years even if by some miracle he was the incumbent. RP maybe.

Go ahead and d1gg and bump. Are you to 10,000 yet?

speciallyblend
07-13-2008, 10:06 AM
Ron Paul suspended his campaign weeks ago.

suspended is the key word and we have 2 months to convert 15-35 delegates in many states that already do not like mccain, fact is we show them the truth ,if the gop ignores reality then we let them march of the cliff they are marching off of;) ill show them the way;)

The_Orlonater
07-13-2008, 10:57 AM
Can we even do this? The GOP is EVIL....

No1ButPaul08
07-13-2008, 10:59 AM
Can we even do this? The GOP is EVIL....

No

Jaaaman
07-13-2008, 11:00 AM
Can we even do this? The GOP is EVIL....

I agree that the GOP has turned away from true conservative ideals... however, as much as I don't like McCain, I will vote for him so that Obama has less of a chance of getting in office.

The_Orlonater
07-13-2008, 11:11 AM
I agree that the GOP has turned away from true conservative ideals... however, as much as I don't like McCain, I will vote for him so that Obama has less of a chance of getting in office.

They're both the same.

Look at my sig.:D

pauletteNV
07-13-2008, 11:14 AM
No1butPaul08

"No" to which statement. No we can't do it. Come on...if we don't try with all that has happened so far...where's your fighting spirit? To quit is to lose for sure. Or "no" they are not evil. We can and will make things better...one step at a time.

Jaaaman ...a vote for McCain is a vote for perhaps the lesser of two evils...let's see do I chose socialism or facism...however you look at it, the vote is still for an evil. Remember that old saying "what if they gave a party and nobody came?" I actually think if I can't write in Ron Paul...assuming he is not on the ballot at all :-)...I will cast a ballot but only for Ron Paul Republicans, true libertarians whose records I am familiar with...and against most initiatives which increase taxes or government size or intervention in our lives - leaving some very noticable blanks. No vote when one bothers to show up at the polling place, is not apathy, it shows distain, distrust, and even anger at the system.

speciallyblend
07-13-2008, 11:15 AM
No

we can convert delegates till convention day, and you can never say never until after the convention . I suggest people continue to work and converting delegates, if we fail to change their minds ,then the gop loses by a landslide...

everyday mccain opens his mouth we have a better chance......

Jaaaman
07-13-2008, 11:23 AM
They're both the same.



That is patently false.

Anti Federalist
07-13-2008, 11:27 AM
I agree that the GOP has turned away from true conservative ideals... however, as much as I don't like McCain, I will vote for him so that Obama has less of a chance of getting in office.

Bah, enjoy the kool - aid.


http://www.admit-one.net/webimages/noobs.jpg

Anti Federalist
07-13-2008, 11:28 AM
That is patently false.

Oh, you don't say.

Enlighten us cave dwellers, O' omniscient NoOb.

No1ButPaul08
07-13-2008, 11:32 AM
No1butPaul08

"No" to which statement. No we can't do it. Come on...if we don't try with all that has happened so far...where's your fighting spirit? To quit is to lose for sure. Or "no" they are not evil. We can and will make things better...one step at a time.

No to Ron winning the nomination. It's simply not going to happen. My fighting spirit lies, among others, within my $50 donation to BJ Lawson. I didn't quit anything, just shifting focus. I agree about the one step at a time, and I will point out that still going for the nomination is in direct contradiction to the one step at a time philosophy. The Presidency is the last step in this scenario, not the first.

Yes, they are evil, and anyone who thinks we still have a chance at their nomination doesn't quite understand how evil the GOP actually is.


we can convert delegates till convention day, and you can never say never until after the convention . I suggest people continue to work and converting delegates, if we fail to change their minds ,then the gop loses by a landslide...

everyday mccain opens his mouth we have a better chance......

I agree with everything here except the never say never part. We've been over this before, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. Please continue the work you are doing to convert and educate delegates.

Jaaaman
07-13-2008, 11:49 AM
Oh, you don't say.

Enlighten us cave dwellers, O' omniscient NoOb.

Federalist... you are the first troll to be put on my ignore list. Congrats. :cool:

Menthol Patch
07-13-2008, 11:53 AM
I agree that the GOP needs another candidate.

McCain is a big government anti-freedom warmonger.

I think this is a great idea and we should start a movement to push for another GOP candidate.

Regardless if Ron Paul became that candidate or not it would be a way of showing the power of the REVOLUTION.

Menthol Patch
07-13-2008, 11:56 AM
That is patently false.

Obama and McCain are both the same!

1) They both support the continuation of the IRS.

2) They both support the Patriot Act and other legislation that violates our rights and freedoms.

3) They both refuse to oppose the North American Union.

4) They both refuse to bring our troops home from around the world.

5) They both support the continuation of the Federal Reserve.

6) They both support the continuation of the "War on Drugs."

7) They both support BIG GOVERNMENT!


Both Obama and McCain are 100% evil big government monsters!

Menthol Patch
07-13-2008, 11:57 AM
Can we even do this? The GOP is EVIL....

I would agree that 99% of GOP and Democrat candidates are evil. The only exception I know of is Ron Paul.

Jaaaman
07-13-2008, 11:59 AM
Obama and McCain are both the same!

Both Obama and McCain are 100% evil big government monsters!

McCain is for less government (and government control) and Obama is for more government control in our everyday lives... you are wrong sir.

Roxi
07-13-2008, 12:02 PM
i refuse to vote for obama or mccain... i don't like baldwin or barr either but i guess ill give one of them my vote to take away from mccain and obama, rather than my initial "write in or die" attitude, i don't think barr or baldwin has a "snowballs chance in hell" but a vote taken away is a vote taken away right?

but i really don't think it matters WHO becomes president... whoever it is, mccain or obama will be one and the same because either way the POTUS is going to be a puppet on strings and it wont really matter IMHO

Menthol Patch
07-13-2008, 12:07 PM
McCain is for less government (and government control) and Obama is for more government control in our everyday lives... you are wrong sir.

No, McCain is a monster who wants bigger government just like Obama.

When did you EVER hear him talk about enhancing Liberty in this nation?

When did you EVER hear him talk about getting rid of government programs that spy on citizens?

When did you EVER hear him talk about getting rid of the IRS?

When did you EVER hear him talk about reducing the insane amounts of security at airports?

NEVER!

I could go on and on.

Government will INCREASE with McCain and it would INCREASE with Obama!

We need a candidate that wants SMALL GOVERNMENT!

We need a candidate that desires to restore our rights and freedoms!

THE GOP NEEDS A NEW CANDIDATE!

Menthol Patch
07-13-2008, 12:09 PM
i refuse to vote for obama or mccain... i don't like baldwin or barr either but i guess ill give one of them my vote to take away from mccain and obama, rather than my initial "write in or die" attitude, i don't think barr or baldwin has a "snowballs chance in hell" but a vote taken away is a vote taken away right?

but i really don't think it matters WHO becomes president... whoever it is, mccain or obama will be one and the same because either way the POTUS is going to be a puppet on strings and it wont really matter IMHO

I agree with you. I also refuse to vote for Obama or McCain.

However, I won't vote for Barr because in my opinion he was a hardcore neocon drug warrior only a few years ago and I have a very hard time believing that he has changed very much.

However, if we could get someone like RON PAUL as President he could get a LOT accomplished. Ron Paul would NOT be a puppet on a string! He would really change things.

What we need to do is find a way to demand a new GOP candidate!

Anti Federalist
07-13-2008, 12:10 PM
Federalist... you are the first troll to be put on my ignore list. Congrats. :cool:

Typical neo-con sludge.

Hannity's forum is looking for people.:rolleyes:

If you had any notion of convincing anybody here, you could have perhaps engaged in a discussion to try and convince people why red state fascism is an acceptable alternative to blue state communism.

But of course, that argument cannot be made, so your only option is "ignore".

I myself, consider it somewhat of a badge of honor that I have not one person on my "ignore" list.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Jaaaman
07-13-2008, 12:12 PM
THE GOP NEEDS A NEW CANDIDATE!

Unfortunately, right now McCain is the best we got. We as conservatives need to pressure Mr. McCain to acknowledge and listen to his conservative supporters.

Anti Federalist
07-13-2008, 12:13 PM
Obama and McCain are both the same!

1) They both support the continuation of the IRS.

2) They both support the Patriot Act and other legislation that violates our rights and freedoms.

3) They both refuse to oppose the North American Union.

4) They both refuse to bring our troops home from around the world.

5) They both support the continuation of the Federal Reserve.

6) They both support the continuation of the "War on Drugs."

7) They both support BIG GOVERNMENT!


Both Obama and McCain are 100% evil big government monsters!

You forgot, both voted for telecom immunity and shredding the 4th Amendment.

Menthol Patch
07-13-2008, 12:13 PM
Unfortunately, right now McCain is the best we got. We as conservatives need to pressure Mr. McCain to acknowledge and listen to his conservative supporters.

I would admit that McCain is probably a tad tiny bit better than Obama, but they are both DEVILS.

You don't make deals with the DEVIL.

You also don't VOTE FOR THE DEVIL.

We need to push the issue that we need another GOP candidate!

Menthol Patch
07-13-2008, 12:15 PM
You forgot, both voted for telecom immunity and shredding the 4th Amendment.

Exactly!

Thanks for reminding me!

I really think we need to push for another GOP candidate to take McCain's place.

Anti Federalist
07-13-2008, 12:16 PM
Unfortunately, right now McCain is the best we got. We as conservatives need to pressure Mr. McCain to acknowledge and listen to his conservative supporters.

McSame acknowledge and listen to us?

After the treatment we got from the GOP this year??

I want some of what you're smoking.

Jaaaman
07-13-2008, 12:18 PM
I really think we need to push for another GOP candidate to take McCain's place.

There is no one else. McCain is it. Conservatives need to deal in reality now.

Menthol Patch
07-13-2008, 12:20 PM
There is no one else. McCain is it. Conservatives need to deal in reality now.

The reality is that McCain is a big government monster just like Obama! They are both evil, both despise freedom, and neither one of them would reduce the size of government.

The GOP needs to realize only a "libertarian" freedom supporting Republican candidate will be able to win.

Anti Federalist
07-13-2008, 12:20 PM
There is no one else. McCain is it. Conservatives need to deal in reality now.

I am.

I'll be voting Barr/Root.

If not on the ballot I'll be voting Baldwin/Castle.

If neither, I'll write in Ron Paul.

And sleep well that night.

Menthol Patch
07-13-2008, 12:21 PM
McSame acknowledge and listen to us?

After the treatment we got from the GOP this year??

I want some of what you're smoking.

I think Jaaaman is still under the delusion that McCain is anything other than a big government fascist.

Menthol Patch
07-13-2008, 12:23 PM
I am.

I'll be voting Barr/Root.

If not on the ballot I'll be voting Baldwin/Castle.

If neither, I'll write in Ron Paul.

And sleep well that night.

I'm totally opposed to Barr because he is a neocon in disguise trying to use the Libertarian Party to advance his career, but in addition to that there is no chance he will win.

The only possibility of getting a freedom supporting candidate is to push the GOP to nominate someone other than McCain.

Anti Federalist
07-13-2008, 12:33 PM
I'm totally opposed to Barr because he is a neocon in disguise trying to use the Libertarian Party to advance his career, but in addition to that there is no chance he will win.

The only possibility of getting a freedom supporting candidate is to push the GOP to nominate someone other than McCain.

That could very well be, but I'll leave that discussion for another time.

Right now you have to keep working Jaaman, since he saw fit to ignore me.:D

nbhadja
07-13-2008, 12:42 PM
There is no one else. McCain is it. Conservatives need to deal in reality now.

McCain is for:
global warming economic restrictions (carbon capping)
giving the UN the ability to tax us
amnesty
welfare
a bigger government
policing the world including war with iran and pakistan
the federal reserve and inflation
the NAU
restrictions on civil liberty
restrictions on economic liberty
controlling the free market with more restrictions

Coincidentally Obama is for all of those things as well.
Sure McCain is maybe like 5% better than Obama since he is against socializing the health care system but that is like trying to differentiate between Stalin and Hitler.

I'd rather chop off an arm than vote for McCain or Obama.

JK/SEA
07-13-2008, 12:47 PM
Anti-Federalist, thanks for putting Jaaaman in perspective.

And i too would never put someone on ignore. All voices should be heard. If it wasn't for discovering Ron Paul, i would most likely be riding the obama bandwagon and singing 'everything is beautiful' while drinking cherry kool-aid.

JosephTheLibertarian
07-13-2008, 12:58 PM
GOP needs to go to hell. Take those wretched social cons with you, they're the reason why I never found the GOP to be a viable vehicle for my personal beliefs. Let's bring the LP into the mainstream, shall we? Anything over 5% this year for the LP will be a MAJOR victory for us. We have finally a great chance of getting over 5%, let's start building this party once and for all, leave the GOP to the social cons and the chicken hawks.

speciallyblend
07-13-2008, 12:58 PM
McCain is for less government (and government control) and Obama is for more government control in our everyday lives... you are wrong sir.

sir mccain is for bigger government and more government control... let's not forget amnesty as well.
argue with mccain not me hear it for yourself, mccain will not win,here is your less government argument blown to bits by the man himself mccain;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKc1CoO0n58

mccain isn't even smart enough to give the illegals green cards with no citizen ship.... jaaaaaman are you aware of the dirty tactics mccain/gop members have done in almost all the state conventions....... the republican party stands for fascism lately so your idea of less government is laughable!!!!!


like i said mccains campaign is officially over(if the gop doesn't figure it out by sept ,they will in nov;). I 'd use your energy to find another candidate. We republicans will be campaigning against mccain after the dirty tactics they pulled!!!

speciallyblend
07-13-2008, 01:09 PM
GOP needs to go to hell. Take those wretched social cons with you, they're the reason why I never found the GOP to be a viable vehicle for my personal beliefs. Let's bring the LP into the mainstream, shall we? Anything over 5% this year for the LP will be a MAJOR victory for us. We have finally a great chance of getting over 5%, let's start building this party once and for all, leave the GOP to the social cons and the chicken hawks.

but i will remain a republican for at least 2 more years,unless the gop keeps going down the road they are. I can always vote for other candidates if the gop fails to listen;)
I was a member of the lp for almost 12 yrs so i hear you;)

Menthol Patch
07-13-2008, 01:13 PM
McCain is for:
global warming economic restrictions (carbon capping)
giving the UN the ability to tax us
amnesty
welfare
a bigger government
policing the world including war with iran and pakistan
the federal reserve and inflation
the NAU
restrictions on civil liberty
restrictions on economic liberty
controlling the free market with more restrictions

Coincidentally Obama is for all of those things as well.
Sure McCain is maybe like 5% better than Obama since he is against socializing the health care system but that is like trying to differentiate between Stalin and Hitler.

I'd rather chop off an arm than vote for McCain or Obama.

I totally agree!

That was a great post!

Menthol Patch
07-13-2008, 01:14 PM
GOP needs to go to hell. Take those wretched social cons with you, they're the reason why I never found the GOP to be a viable vehicle for my personal beliefs. Let's bring the LP into the mainstream, shall we? Anything over 5% this year for the LP will be a MAJOR victory for us. We have finally a great chance of getting over 5%, let's start building this party once and for all, leave the GOP to the social cons and the chicken hawks.

The LP is dead. It sold out. The LP has been taken over by those that are willing to compromise their principles.

The fact Bob Barr was nominated proves the LP is not worth supporting.

Harry Browne is rolling in his grave.

JosephTheLibertarian
07-13-2008, 01:17 PM
The LP is dead. It sold out. The LP has been taken over by those that are willing to compromise their principles.

The fact Bob Barr was nominated proves the LP is not worth supporting.

Harry Browne is rolling in his grave.

No, your mind is dead. Go find your place in the halls of obscurity. No other candidate the Radicals put forth had any credibility in the mainstream. Blame yourself. We had to deal with your piece of shit Badnarik in 2004, so quit whining, baby. Did we leave because he was such a fucking loser? No, we stayed. I guess all of this sophomoric bickering says alot about you, huh?

Go cry, Menthol snatch

nbhadja
07-13-2008, 01:21 PM
The LP is dead. It sold out. The LP has been taken over by those that are willing to compromise their principles.

The fact Bob Barr was nominated proves the LP is not worth supporting.

Harry Browne is rolling in his grave.

You guys need to learn to LOOK at a candidates voting record.

When say Clinton or Obama claim to now be against the Iraq war, it is easy to tell they still are for it by looking at their voting record.

When Barr says he has changed from a neocon to a libertarian, it is easy to tell he has changed because of his voting record.

Since then, everything Barr has voted for has been for the constitution in a liberatarian manner.

I do not see why it is so hard to do.

speciallyblend
07-13-2008, 01:25 PM
i met harry browne and i can tell you he is probably proud of us all and ron paul ,so keep up the fight!!!

JosephTheLibertarian
07-13-2008, 01:25 PM
You guys need to learn to LOOK at a candidates voting record.

When say Clinton or Obama claim to now be against the Iraq war, it is easy to tell they still are for it by looking at their voting record.

When Barr says he has changed from a neocon to a libertarian, it is easy to tell he has changed because of his voting record.

Since then, everything Barr has voted for has been for the constitution in a liberatarian manner.

I do not see why it is so hard to do.

He can't do any critical thinking, that's why Mental Patch always says the time things, over and over again. He's like a typing broken record. Yes, Bob Barr's voting record has increasing become more and more libertarian over the years, Nolan wrote an article about it. Mental Patch is just a guy that supports crackheads, I guess.

speciallyblend
07-13-2008, 01:26 PM
You guys need to learn to LOOK at a candidates voting record.

When say Clinton or Obama claim to now be against the Iraq war, it is easy to tell they still are for it by looking at their voting record.

When Barr says he has changed from a neocon to a libertarian, it is easy to tell he has changed because of his voting record.

Since then, everything Barr has voted for has been for the constitution in a liberatarian manner.

I do not see why it is so hard to do.

definetly

Menthol Patch
07-13-2008, 01:34 PM
He can't do any critical thinking, that's why Mental Patch always says the time things, over and over again. He's like a typing broken record. Yes, Bob Barr's voting record has increasing become more and more libertarian over the years, Nolan wrote an article about it. Mental Patch is just a guy that supports crackheads, I guess.

Yes, I support everyone's right to put anything they desire into their own body.

If that's crack then that's their right.

Bob Barr is responsible for thousands of innocent people being in prison right now and there is not even an apology for it on his website.

Menthol Patch
07-13-2008, 01:34 PM
If other people can keep on praising the Patriot Act voting drug warrior necon Bob Barr then I can continue giving my opinion.

Captain America
07-13-2008, 01:35 PM
obama's america would be much worse than mccain

Menthol Patch
07-13-2008, 01:37 PM
You guys need to learn to LOOK at a candidates voting record.

When say Clinton or Obama claim to now be against the Iraq war, it is easy to tell they still are for it by looking at their voting record.

When Barr says he has changed from a neocon to a libertarian, it is easy to tell he has changed because of his voting record.

Since then, everything Barr has voted for has been for the constitution in a liberatarian manner.

I do not see why it is so hard to do.

Bob Barr is a neocon in disguise that is using the Libertarian Party to advance his career.

I don't think he has really changed at all. If his voting record changed that's part of his plan.

Remember, Bob Barr was the kind of person who did not at all mind that he was breaking apart families, ruining lives, and destroying marriages by putting innocent people in prison.

People that cold and evil don't change quickly.

JosephTheLibertarian
07-13-2008, 01:37 PM
Yes, I support everyone's right to put anything they desire into their own body.

If that's crack then that's their right.

Bob Barr is responsible for thousands of innocent people being in prison right now and there is not even an apology for it on his website.

You missed it completely. You support crazy people.


obama's america would be much worse than mccain

I would disagree. I'm not in favor of Obama, but I certainly don't believe that more welfare is worse than more war.

JosephTheLibertarian
07-13-2008, 01:38 PM
Bob Barr is a neocon in disguise that is using the Libertarian Party to advance his career.

I don't think he has really changed at all. If his voting record changed that's part of his plan.

Remember, Bob Barr was the kind of person who did not at all mind that he was breaking apart families, ruining lives, and destroying marriages by putting innocent people in prison.

People that cold and evil don't change quickly.

You're a conspiracy theorist. gotcha.

Menthol Patch
07-13-2008, 01:40 PM
You're a conspiracy theorist. gotcha.

Absolutely! Conspiracies are absolutely real!

There are conspiracies to steal money all the time.

There are conspiracies to advance in careers all the time.

There are conspiracies to defraud others of money all the time.

There are conspiracies to go into war with other nations on false information.

There are conspiracies to hide extramarital affairs all the time.

The fact is conspiracies are real and anyone who denies that is either brain dead or are part of the problem.

JosephTheLibertarian
07-13-2008, 01:42 PM
Absolutely! Conspiracies are absolutely real!

There are conspiracies to steal money all the time.

There are conspiracies to advance in careers all the time.

There are conspiracies to defraud others of money all the time.

There are conspiracies to go into war with other nations on false information.

There are conspiracies to hide extramarital affairs all the time.

The fact is conspiracies are real and anyone who denies that is either brain dead are part of the problem.

I don't deny that, but it is nice to come up with some evidence once in a while though. You're just seeing what you want to see.

nbhadja
07-13-2008, 01:50 PM
Bob Barr is a neocon in disguise that is using the Libertarian Party to advance his career.

I don't think he has really changed at all. If his voting record changed that's part of his plan.

Remember, Bob Barr was the kind of person who did not at all mind that he was breaking apart families, ruining lives, and destroying marriages by putting innocent people in prison.

People that cold and evil don't change quickly.

No if it was part of the plan he would just publically state his opposition to those things while actually voting for them.

Just like McCain does about small government and Obama does on the war. Obama says he is anti war but actually is voting for more war. Same with McCain saying he is for small government but votes for big government.
The media never reports their voting record, just what they say in public.

The fact that Barr has changed his voting record means he has changed.

agitator
07-13-2008, 02:15 PM
Federalist... you are the first troll to be put on my ignore list. Congrats. :cool:

You guys do realize you are arguing with a sockpuppet, right?

Ninja Homer
07-13-2008, 02:28 PM
Obama will indeed destroy McCain. The flip side to that is that if Ron Paul was the Republican candidate, he would destroy Obama, and that is the only way that Obama can be defeated. Actually, there's one other way, which is if there's another 9/11 type incident, which is a scary thought considering how the gov and media seem to be propagating war with Iran.

Here's Zogby's electoral college map:
http://www.zogby.com/50state/index.cfm

Obama has 273. McCain has 160. There are 105 electoral votes that are too close to call.

Even if McCain miraculously grabbed all the states that are too close to call, he still loses to Obama.

If you click on the individual states, you'll see the percentages for all the candidates. I think it's pretty safe to assume that if Ron Paul was the Republican candidate rather than McCain, his percentage would be pretty close to the combined percentage of McCain and Barr. It could possibly be higher than that because Paul would draw more independents away from Obama than McCain does.

If this was the case, then Ron Paul would take all of the states that are too close to call. There are also states that Obama currently has that would go to Ron Paul.

For example, Colorado currently has Obama at 40%, McCain at 38%, and Barr at 8%. If Ron Paul was the Republican candidate, he'd have 46% to Obama's 40%. Ron Paul takes 9 electoral votes away from Obama, and that combined with the states McCain currently has and the "too close to call" states is enough to beat Obama. There are some other states like Colorado that Paul would take away from Obama as well.

The only way the Republican candidate can win is if that candidate is Ron Paul.

Thomas_Paine
07-13-2008, 02:40 PM
Federalist... you are the first troll to be put on my ignore list. Congrats. :cool:

That's very ironic...everyone is already ignoring YOUR foolishness.

kombayn
07-13-2008, 03:51 PM
Ron Paul for President! WOO!!! ;)

LibertyEagle
07-13-2008, 05:40 PM
McCain is for less government (and government control) and Obama is for more government control in our everyday lives... you are wrong sir.

You're full of it, Jaaaman. Regardless of what you say, the proof is in the pudding. McCain votes for increases in the size and scope of government. He may be slightly better overall than Obama, but even that is questionable. They are both leftists.
http://nowaymccain.com/

LibertyEagle
07-13-2008, 05:45 PM
There is no one else. McCain is it. Conservatives need to deal in reality now.

Yes, they should and vote for either Barr or Baldwin. A conservative who votes for McCain is selling out every principle they ever had. Let's check on those right now, shall we?

- Limited Constitutional government
- Personal privacy
- Personal responsibility
- Strong national defense (not offense)
- Fiscal responsibility in government
- Individual liberty

McCain fails in every category.

www.nowaymccain.com

The_Orlonater
07-13-2008, 05:52 PM
Bob Barr 08!


If not, we're screwed.

JosephTheLibertarian
07-13-2008, 05:52 PM
You're full of it, Jaaaman. Regardless of what you say, the proof is in the pudding. McCain votes for increases in the size and scope of government. He may be slightly better overall than Obama, but even that is questionable. They are both leftists.
http://nowaymccain.com/

Is that your site? I already know McCain sucks, don't need to read anything in there.

Thank you :D


1. He has a consistent pattern of shocking verbal abuse, including screaming profanities, against Senate Republican colleagues who oppose his bills in any way

That's actually one of his better qualities imo :)


3. He has worked against the principles of the Republican Party, promoting greatly expanding federal regulatory authority in order to combat global warming in ways that would greatly burden the American economy, contrary to free market forces

What we all have to realize is that the nominee of both parties both believe in GW and in the intervention of state to "do something about it." Do what? Increase government power, naturally, in order to better undermine individual liberty; not to mention ruin our economy more.

The_Orlonater
07-13-2008, 06:06 PM
Ugh, I hate what's going right now. No unity, we're all split up, some of us are voting Baldwin, some Barr, and some even went to the unthinkable. People are even doing useless write-ins...:mad:

Everyone just bitches at each other back and forth.

JMann
07-13-2008, 06:13 PM
O'Bama will never be elected president unless Barr pulls a large number of votes. O'Bama has been a media darling for the last year, has spent 200 million dollars running and the generic Republicans are getting crushed in most polls. O'Bama is only tied with McCain after all that. He was only supported by 50% of Democrats in the primary. He is the most liberal member of the Senate and has far higher unfavorable ratings than McCain.

If after all the media promotion of O'Bama while trying to destroy McCain and he is only tied with McCain he is toast. This is why Hill and Bill went around talking about his campaign being a fairytale. O'Bama may generate excitement from the college and 20'something crowd the vast majority of voters relate to McCain. Regardless of how many people tell you O'Bama is not beatable I simply will point out that with a 2/1 fundraising advantage over Hill he lost like 13 of 18 primaries after March 1st. Many by like 75-25% and the more people see of him the more they hate him. The far left that raised the money for him are learning he is pro-gun, death penalty, Iraq war and wiretapping phone calls. The money is drying up and people now understand he is simply a state legislature elected from the most corrupt district in the most politically corrupt city in the county.

The fact that O'Bama isn't leading McCain by 20 points at this time shows he is an empty suit with little or no future.

O'Bama is acting like he is Harold Ford Jr and he isn't and on top of that the civil rights leaders want to not only cut off his nuts they want to cut them out and that is assuming he has any balls in the first place.

B. H. O'Bama has about a zero percent chance of being elected in November. In the last few months this kid has thrown his bigoted grandmother, father and pastor under the bus and has shown he the king of misspeaking and changes long held convictions. Hell in NC he is still running ads all day introducing himself as someone that has 'faith' in our country. If people haven't bought into the fact he even likes the country he has zero chance of winning in November.

Akus
07-13-2008, 06:37 PM
JMann, Obama is not Irish....

JMann
07-13-2008, 07:10 PM
JMann, Obama is not Irish....

I know I'm just trying to make him more acceptable by adding a " ' " between the O and B and calling him Irish. ;o)

Then again I think I've heard he is related to McCain so who knows whether he is Irish or not. Most don't know that Reagan's family changed their from O'Reagan to Reagan around the turn of the last century. OK now I want some frosted lucky charms.

Join The Paul Side
07-13-2008, 07:11 PM
McCain is our best hope against that marxist muslim Obama...


Please jump off a cliff..............

Anti Federalist
07-13-2008, 07:22 PM
You guys do realize you are arguing with a sockpuppet, right?

Yup.

http://www.aardman.com/rextherunt/album/VINCEBOT.jpg

Anti Federalist
07-13-2008, 07:25 PM
Anti-Federalist, thanks for putting Jaaaman in perspective.

And i too would never put someone on ignore. All voices should be heard. If it wasn't for discovering Ron Paul, i would most likely be riding the obama bandwagon and singing 'everything is beautiful' while drinking cherry kool-aid.

De nada.

And what a horrible fate.

ChickenHawk
07-13-2008, 08:21 PM
Obama will indeed destroy McCain. The flip side to that is that if Ron Paul was the Republican candidate, he would destroy Obama, and that is the only way that Obama can be defeated. Actually, there's one other way, which is if there's another 9/11 type incident, which is a scary thought considering how the gov and media seem to be propagating war with Iran.

Here's Zogby's electoral college map:
http://www.zogby.com/50state/index.cfm

Obama has 273. McCain has 160. There are 105 electoral votes that are too close to call.

Even if McCain miraculously grabbed all the states that are too close to call, he still loses to Obama.

If you click on the individual states, you'll see the percentages for all the candidates. I think it's pretty safe to assume that if Ron Paul was the Republican candidate rather than McCain, his percentage would be pretty close to the combined percentage of McCain and Barr. It could possibly be higher than that because Paul would draw more independents away from Obama than McCain does.

If this was the case, then Ron Paul would take all of the states that are too close to call. There are also states that Obama currently has that would go to Ron Paul.

For example, Colorado currently has Obama at 40%, McCain at 38%, and Barr at 8%. If Ron Paul was the Republican candidate, he'd have 46% to Obama's 40%. Ron Paul takes 9 electoral votes away from Obama, and that combined with the states McCain currently has and the "too close to call" states is enough to beat Obama. There are some other states like Colorado that Paul would take away from Obama as well.

The only way the Republican candidate can win is if that candidate is Ron Paul.

You should realize that the polls right now don't likely reflect what will happen in Nov. The fact that most polls show McCain within a few points of Obama is really astonishing considering the political environment. It's hard to see how Obama picks up significant support from here on out. Considering Obama's background, associates and utter lack of experience it seems likely the undecideds will break heavily for McCain once they start paying attention. This is even more likely since the war in Iraq is rapidly fading as a major issue. If summer polls decided the presidency Dukakis would have won in '88 by a huge landslide.

JMann
07-13-2008, 08:40 PM
The only thing that could change O'Bama's fortunes would be to move Va and NC. I don't see how O'Bama wins Ohio, PA, Florida and could possibly loose NJ. The electoral map will be interesting but I would be shocked if O'Bama picks off more Republican states than McCain does Democratic one's. The simple fact is that McCain from March to June won about 75% support from his party while O'Bama, with all his money and media support, lost about 55% of his party all the while being called the new JFK everyday in the media.

The only reason O'Bama is the nominee is because of the super-delegate process which has nothing to do with voters. If the Dems had the same rules as the Reps, Hill would of won the nomination in February.

No1ButPaul08
07-13-2008, 09:30 PM
The only thing that could change O'Bama's fortunes would be to move Va and NC. I don't see how O'Bama wins Ohio, PA, Florida and could possibly loose NJ. The electoral map will be interesting but I would be shocked if O'Bama picks off more Republican states than McCain does Democratic one's. The simple fact is that McCain from March to June won about 75% support from his party while O'Bama, with all his money and media support, lost about 55% of his party all the while being called the new JFK everyday in the media.

The only reason O'Bama is the nominee is because of the super-delegate process which has nothing to do with voters. If the Dems had the same rules as the Reps, Hill would of won the nomination in February.

I'm not saying you are one, but this reeks of a sore loser Hillary Clinton supporter. From March to June? Not to minimize Ron, but the GOP nomination was all but sealed at the beginning of March. In fact, many saw McCain's 75% as a sign of weakness as he was declared the presumptive nominee.

Obama also won more pledged delegates and the popular vote, which is why the Supers went his way. I'm not sure why you bring up the rules argument, it can work both ways. If the GOP had the same rules as the Dems (without the Supers, but how pledged delegates are awarded), the GOP nomination would likely still be open and we would be looking at a brokered convention. McCain absolutely cleaned up the Winner-Take-All states. Anyway, Obama followed his parties rules and won, so your argument is rather baseless.

IMO, both parties systems have flaws. For the Dems, the Superdelegates system is a sham. For the GOP, the WTA system in some states is bad, along with other flaws. I would prefer an all-caucus, unpledged delegate system. That way, the candidate with the numbers AND passion win out.

Akus
07-13-2008, 09:59 PM
Then again I think I've heard he is related to McCain so who knows whether he is Irish or not.

Dick Cheney

Jaaaman
07-13-2008, 10:44 PM
That's very ironic...everyone is already ignoring YOUR foolishness.

Foolishness? I am dealing in reality. Your candidate Ron Paul has suspended his campaign. McCain is the GOP candidate. Obama must be defeated.

Anti Federalist
07-13-2008, 10:52 PM
Foolishness? I am dealing in reality. Your candidate Ron Paul has suspended his campaign. McCain is the GOP candidate. Obama must be defeated.

You still fail to give any reasons why O-bomb-a must be defeated.

You still fail to realize that few, if any, here, care.

Both are, for slightly different reasons, equally bad.

Whoops, forgot, he's ignoring me.

I fail.


http://www.trackandshow.com/gallery/albums/random/iFail.jpg

ChickenHawk
07-13-2008, 10:55 PM
Foolishness? I am dealing in reality. Your candidate Ron Paul has suspended his campaign. McCain is the GOP candidate. Obama must be defeated.

Why? An Obama presidency could easily destroy the Democratic party. 2010 could be a rerun of '94.

Jaaaman
07-13-2008, 11:00 PM
Why? An Obama presidency could easily destroy the Democratic party. 2010 could be a rerun of '94.

Obama's socialist/marxist ideals could be the doing in of this great nation. He will try to put in his own liberal judges on the Supreme Court... possibly causing the overturn of the 2nd amendment (right to bear arms), allowing gay marriage to be the law of the land, allowing partial birth abortions to be performed, and a whole host of other heinous discisions that will ruin this nation.

speciallyblend
07-13-2008, 11:11 PM
Foolishness? I am dealing in reality. Your candidate Ron Paul has suspended his campaign. McCain is the GOP candidate. Obama must be defeated.

i guess the gop should of thought of that before they kept kicking us republicans in the balls.

fr33domfightr
07-13-2008, 11:11 PM
Foolishness? I am dealing in reality. Your candidate Ron Paul has suspended his campaign. McCain is the GOP candidate. Obama must be defeated.

Jaaaman, if you were really dealing in reality, you would see what McCain really stands for. Those lines you hear them say, "smaller, limited government," etc. etc. are just words used during a campaign, period!!!

I too believe those same exact words. They sound good don't they?? The problem is, the politicians WILL NOT FOLLOW THROUGH!!

I'll bet you're a young voter, just like I used to be. It's not that those messages aren't good messages, they are. The problem is, they just don't follow through. I know it's disheartening to hear, but it's true.

I've learned my lesson, and I started voting 30 years ago. It took me awhile to figure it out, after several election cycles, but I've finally done it. That's why I'm here, and why I will not vote for Obama OR McCain.

It's time to force the Republicans to put up or shut up!! So far, it seems they just want to shut up, doing the same old thing, promoting one thing, while doing another.

Ask yourself this, when the Republican Party controlled both the House & Senate, and the Presidency, what did they do? Did you see them be responsible with our money? Did you see them shrink the size of the Federal Government? Did they even try anything they proposed during their campaigns?!?! The truth is, their version of government is far different than what they told us, and we fell for it.

I won't be fooled again!!

We'd like you not to be fooled either.



FF

speciallyblend
07-13-2008, 11:12 PM
Obama's socialist/marxist ideals could be the doing in of this great nation. He will try to put in his own liberal judges on the Supreme Court... possibly causing the overturn of the 2nd amendment (right to bear arms), allowing gay marriage to be the law of the land, allowing partial birth abortions to be performed, and a whole host of other heinous discisions that will ruin this nation.

yeah gay marriage destroys me and my wifes marriage, yeah(sarcasm)

fr33domfightr
07-14-2008, 11:44 AM
bump

Jaaaman
07-14-2008, 12:10 PM
bump

Howdy. :p

speciallyblend
07-14-2008, 12:46 PM
Howdy. :p

i respect your vote so good luck,but I'm sorry mccain lost my vote by the gop/mccain's actions in the conventions,so if the republican party loses which i bet they will. they can blame themselves;)

mccain and obama are not even an option to many of us anymore so you would do better to convert democrats to mcccain ,then republicans, thats the facts ,if you thought we were firm go try to convert dems;)

the only way mccain will win,is if he forces iraqi nationals and illegal mexicans to vote for him;) mccain would do better running for office in mexico!!!

newyearsrevolution08
07-14-2008, 12:54 PM
I still love it that people think we give a shit about the "party affiliation" or who wins whether republican or democrat. They are both BULLSHIT currently and will always be unless we STOP trying to divide among party lines as well as vote along them.

Try and tell a republican to vote democratic or a democrat to vote republican and the sad thing is, they are MORE WORRIED about what others around them think then voting their heart and mind.

Mccain and Obama are one in the same, vote for ANYONE besides them and we will win. We all know one of those two WILL become President BUT we can still have our voice heard by eating up alot of the % in 3rd party and other party voting INSTEAD of doing wasteful efforts like write ins and so on that WON'T count UNLESS done correctly.

I am going to vote odds are by pulling a candidate out of a hat and would be happy to do so. I would rather my vote count AGAINST mccain and obama then to pretend to prove a point by writing in a candidate that won't show in the overall count OR sit at home and not vote.

We need to get our numbers to show even when we know we will not win overall. I would love to see 30% of the vote going to "OTHER" candidate.. Sure obama will win BUT we will have a strong army to build up by 2011 to get ready to take back our nation, our republic AND our liberties.

No matter who we all rally behind we will NOT outvote mccain or obama so that whole "lets get together" stuff really doesn't matter.

I wish there was someone CRAZY to vote for who we could push up to 15% and get into debates just to show how big of a sham our election system really is lol....

Vote for Crazy Pete in 2008!

The_Orlonater
07-14-2008, 12:58 PM
Obama's socialist/marxist ideals could be the doing in of this great nation. He will try to put in his own liberal judges on the Supreme Court... possibly causing the overturn of the 2nd amendment (right to bear arms), allowing gay marriage to be the law of the land, allowing partial birth abortions to be performed, and a whole host of other heinous discisions that will ruin this nation.

http://c22blog.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/cat-fail.jpg

Yeah, gay marriage really is evil...
The right to your happiness and your marriage which should be done privatley is so evil...

McCain is fucking just as bad.

Jaaaman
07-14-2008, 01:11 PM
Yeah, gay marriage really is evil...
The right to your happiness and your marriage which should be done privatley is so evil...

McCain is fucking just as bad.

Real conservatives care about the moral tide in this Country... real conservatives care about putting people in office who honor traditional values and high moral codes... apparently you are not a 'real conservative'.

You fail. :rolleyes:

http://c22blog.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/cat-fail.jpg

fr33domfightr
07-14-2008, 01:28 PM
I have a tradition for you, it's called the Constitution of the united STATES. Why have the Republicans abandoned this traditional principle?


FF

The_Orlonater
07-14-2008, 01:30 PM
Real conservatives care about the moral tide in this Country... real conservatives care about putting people in office who honor traditional values and high moral codes... apparently you are not a 'real conservative'.

You fail. :rolleyes:

http://c22blog.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/cat-fail.jpg

No you fail.

A real conservative would actually listen to the Constitution. Gay's should have every right to marry just like you.

Since you're voting McCain, I guess I can call you a liberal.

speciallyblend
07-14-2008, 01:31 PM
Real conservatives care about the moral tide in this Country... real conservatives care about putting people in office who honor traditional values and high moral codes... apparently you are not a 'real conservative'.

You fail. :rolleyes:

http://c22blog.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/cat-fail.jpg

real conservatives mind their own business and respect someone's privacy . I'm sorry not one gay person who is married or not,is affecting my marriage with my wife or my morals...

if being gay is a choice,then your bi-sexual and you choose to be straight,think about that one;)

nbhadja
07-14-2008, 01:59 PM
Real conservatives care about the moral tide in this Country... real conservatives care about putting people in office who honor traditional values and high moral codes... apparently you are not a 'real conservative'.

You fail. :rolleyes:

http://c22blog.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/cat-fail.jpg

A real conservative is all about a smaller government and the constitution. Opposing gay marriage is not a real conservative value, it is a religious bigot value that the religious bigots posing as conservatives value.

McCain is not conservative, he is liberal. Yet you are gonna vote for a liberal (McCain). Therefore you are liberal.

Vet_from_cali
07-14-2008, 02:43 PM
obama lead is falling if you havent heard the news lately, and i just did the AOL poll with Mccain lead 76% to obamas 24%. obama isn't the sure nominee just yet...

fr33domfightr
07-14-2008, 02:49 PM
obama lead is falling if you havent heard the news lately, and i just did the AOL poll with Mccain lead 76% to obamas 24%. obama isn't the sure nominee just yet...

The percentages you're quoting here don't even look accurate at all.

Actually, in light of recent events, I'd say both Obama and McCain will probably go down in the polls, with a third party candidate picking up steam. Those guys are both shooting themselves in the foot.


FF

Vet_from_cali
07-14-2008, 03:03 PM
The percentages you're quoting here don't even look accurate at all.

Actually, in light of recent events, I'd say both Obama and McCain will probably go down in the polls, with a third party candidate picking up steam. Those guys are both shooting themselves in the foot.


FF

ya it tripped me out that mccain is leading by 50%+, maybe he hired some spammers lol. i still cant believe america has chosen these two as the most capable men in trying to save this sinking ship. its just pathetic.

muh_roads
07-14-2008, 03:13 PM
Jaaaman = sheeple

So many examples proving McCain = McBama and that Obama = O'Cain yet he ignores them all.

What do I care. Both will destroy this country causing my gold/silver to rise even more.

speciallyblend
07-14-2008, 03:36 PM
Jaaaman = sheeple

So many examples proving McCain = McBama and that Obama = O'Cain yet he ignores them all.

What do I care. Both will destroy this country causing my gold/silver to rise even more.

spare some change;)?

Truth Warrior
07-14-2008, 03:45 PM
Obama Won't Win It All
by Charley Reese
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reese/reese464.html

;)

JosephTheLibertarian
07-14-2008, 06:20 PM
real conservatives mind their own business and respect someone's privacy . I'm sorry not one gay person who is married or not,is affecting my marriage with my wife or my morals...

if being gay is a choice,then your bi-sexual and you choose to be straight,think about that one;)

Please, don't confused libertarianism with conservatism.

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=7&e=9

social cons go to the right

socialists to the left

people with a brain head north

The_Orlonater
07-14-2008, 06:45 PM
Obama Won't Win It All
by Charley Reese
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reese/reese464.html

;)

I don't believe that for one second.

Especially with **** like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjXyqcx-mYY

Carole
07-14-2008, 07:20 PM
Foolishness? I am dealing in reality. Your candidate Ron Paul has suspended his campaign. McCain is the GOP candidate. Obama must be defeated.
The reality is that I WANT the GOP to lose badly. It may be the only way they will come to their sense and see how wrong they have been.

Four years of Obama shold scare the heck out of the country-oops I mean the NAU. :)

Four years of McInSane will destroy this country also- ops I mean the NAU.)

Now what exactly was it you think is different about these candidates? :confused: :p

Duh!!! :rolleyes:

Carole
07-14-2008, 07:22 PM
McCain is for less government (and government control) and Obama is for more government control in our everyday lives... you are wrong sir.
You are very naive. :(

Carole
07-14-2008, 07:26 PM
Ditto +1776

SeanEdwards
07-14-2008, 07:30 PM
The current GOP would nominate the corpse of Lenin before they would nominate Ron Paul. Forget about it. They're a lost cause.

If they ditch McLame, they'll just switch to Romney, or the ghoul, or some random bathroom stall propositioning fucknut.

After the GOP totally implodes this November, the CFR will probably have to elevate some other party to play controlled opposition in the democracy farce. Who will it be? Libertarians? Greens? Commies? Should be interesting to watch.

acptulsa
07-14-2008, 07:32 PM
You are very naive. :(

Jaaa woman! He's a babe in arms.

Dubya ran on small government like a good little Republican, too. Now we have the massive DHS.

What about McCain convinces you he's more honest than Dubya?

speciallyblend
07-14-2008, 07:34 PM
Please, don't confused libertarianism with conservatism.

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=7&e=9

social cons go to the right

socialists to the left

people with a brain head north

well how can you suggest my dot is right where you put it? it could be like 1 box over to the right then it's a fine line between both;) when the lp wises up and includes the ron paul platform and unites under one platform ,then i might want to head north until then i do not trust the gop/lp or cp but i wll probably vote for barr in colorado to help his % with the lp,but i think the lp/cp/republicans/democrats that support ron pauls platform and real change better unite under a platform that goes across all party lines and gives us a new brand to buy. I was a lp for 12 yrs but they need to change their tune asap and start wising up to a bigger movement then themselves;)

could we have a merger on sept 2nd? if all the ego's in the lp/cp/gop(ron paul republicans) and independent activists would dissapear then it's possible,if not then we have 3 parties and many voters disenfranchised with the system and who knows what happens then

tribute_13
07-14-2008, 07:42 PM
Obama and McCain are both the same!

1) They both support the continuation of the IRS.

2) They both support the Patriot Act and other legislation that violates our rights and freedoms.

3) They both refuse to oppose the North American Union.

4) They both refuse to bring our troops home from around the world.

5) They both support the continuation of the Federal Reserve.

6) They both support the continuation of the "War on Drugs."

7) They both support BIG GOVERNMENT!


Both Obama and McCain are 100% evil big government monsters!

Bot supported FISA too.

Eric21ND
07-14-2008, 09:33 PM
Bot supported FISA too.
Obama's FISA vote is horrible. Lucky he's an expert on the Constitution :rolleyes:

DAFTEK
07-14-2008, 09:45 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/arts/photos/2008/07/14/obama-ny-cp-5176045.jpg

fr33domfightr
07-14-2008, 10:13 PM
The McCain campaign has started to try and bring the conservatives into the fold. You will see this more and more as time passes. Don't be fooled by the conservative rhetoric, it's all part of the political game. Many conservative Republicans that don't like McCain will be lured into this, it's sad but true. I wish there were some way to convince people otherwise.

Btw, did you hear about McCain talking to La Raza?? Man, these guys have no shame! He'd sell his soul to be president.



FF

Libertarian Ideals
07-14-2008, 11:31 PM
The Carter years brought us Reagan.

I think Carter did more to advance freedom than Reagan. Of course, they both grew government, too.