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TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 04:52 PM
I missed the march...didn't get in until 1am so I slept in and didn't get to the rally until about 1. However, I was in time for about 10-15 speeches, most notably:

Dr. Paul
Michael Scheuer
Thomas Woods
Naomi Wolfe
Chuck Baldwin
Rep Jim Guest

I am completely guesstimating, but I would say there were about 1,000-1,500 people there. Not good, not bad.

Overall, there were some great speeches and I am glad I made the trip from TN.

However, I think CFL made a mistake by allowing a few of the speakers to say some really fringe things... both in the area of 9/11 truth and Christian activism.

First of all, this movement is about restoring the authority of the Constitution, not making America Christian. A few people took this concept too far. I noticed young people shaking their heads and wincing at ridiculous statements like, "First of all, if you want to be on the jury, God has to put you there." (Marcy Brookes discussing her role as a juror in the acquital of a man charged with tax evasion. Maybe I should've asked her if God put the OJ jurors there, too.)

There were a few speakers who made kooky statements like this, and if the press were so inclined, they could take that kind of stuff and run with it. This is already a movement that struggles with credibility due to its fringe members.

The big thing was the 9/11 truth stuff. Jack McLamb was especially nutty, and told everyone that the government had instituted a program wherein they marked your mailbox with a red, blue, or pink sticker, and when "foreign troops invade", the stickers will tell them who to kill, who to leave alone, and who to take to the concentration camps now being built by Halliburton. I don't put killing American citizens past our current administration, but I can tick off about 10 reasons why this statement is utterly ridiculous. He also blatantly stated that the government blew up the buildings on 9/11, and played the Christianity card VERY hard.

I'm not trying to issue a verdict on 9/11 truth - I've never studied it, and I don't discount it. But rallies like that are NOT the place for radical statements, and I am disappointed that CFL allowed some of the things to be said that they did.

Things like that allow the media, and morons like the Wonkette writers, to continue to marginalize and write off Ron Paul supporters as wackos. They'll completely ignore the 90% that's great and focus on the 10% that's fringe.


(Note: Wonkette DID pick up on McLamb right around the time I made this post. As I said...ignore things like Iraq veterans, NYT bestselling authors, and Congressmen, and focus on this guy. They also let me make some comments, then, after I made a sarcastic one about nuking the Middle East, refused to let any more comments through.)

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 05:02 PM
Among the speakers, a few really shined.

Ron Paul was great and showed humor, passion, and personality. He's always been criticized for his personability and ability to connect, but he did a great job today.

Michael Scheuer...he was #2 on my list of people to see. This guy is a walking, talking rebuttal to the morons who think non-interventionism is "nieve" and irrational in "today's dangerous world." It's great we have a man with 22 years experience in the terrorism and intelligence community on our side. His speech was eloquent and well written, and had some great points, but was a bit too wordy...I wish he had been more shoot from the hip. Either way, this man is awesome, and I regret that he exited the stage on the other side, and I was unable to shake his hand.


Rep Jim Guest was an unexpected surprise, I didn't remember he'd be there.

Chuck Baldwin was fantastic and delivered a passionate speech. I'm an atheist but was very impressed with him, despite my strong feelings about Christianity. I would vote for the man in a heartbeat.

Naomi Wolfe blew everyone away. She has a lot of energy, and really knows how to captivate and involve an audience. She took a topic that the mainstream media would denigrate as "fringe" - 10 steps by which societies are closed and their people conditioned to accept tyranny - and made it real.

In my opinion, Adam Kokesh from Veterans Against the War gave the most passionate and powerful speech of the day, in terms of sheer power and intensity. I was very glad to see an anti-war veteran presence to help stabilize some of the lunatic ramblings that were slipped in from time to time from others. This guy is eloquent and captivating, and I hope we see more of him in the movement.


Thomas Woods was also phenomenal. In his very engaging speech, he called the administration "bastards". He is, in short, the man.

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 05:08 PM
Something else...there were a lot of hangers on at this event. What I mean by that are vendors, and people passing out literature for their websites and/or products.

Within 20 minutes I had 5 pamphlets/cards/fliers folded in my back pocket, and was even solicited for donations to a campaign within 30 seconds of walking into the rally area. (I met the candidate John Cunningham later, and talked with him. He's a nice guy and I hope he defeats Ed Markey, the Dem incumbent.) I was also given literature inviting me to attend an after party in support of another Ron Paul Republican running for office.

I understand the cross promotion, but thought there was a little too much going on. Some will probably disagree. It just kind of cheapens it when there are 100 people there trying to make money.

MRoCkEd
07-12-2008, 05:25 PM
I have a feeling that when Ron Paul came up/heard of the idea of a St. Paul Rally, in his mind he thought it would be better than his DC March idea. But he didn't want to go back on it, especially since volunteers started putting it together. So, St. Paul is the big one - 15,000 People ? Let's triple it.

Thrashertm
07-12-2008, 05:27 PM
I was there for the whole thing today. Had a great time overall. Some of the speakers were excellent. Ron Paul was above average, and it was amazing seeing him live. He was more passionate and lively than from what I recall seeing of him while he was on the campaign trail. G Edward Griffin spoke on the Federal Reserve eloquently and with passion, and seemed to get a good response. Naomi Wolf was excellent as well - she spoke with far more passion than I thought her capable of based on her TV appearances.

I was one of the people turned off by Jack McLamb's Christian prayer/speech. He was emphatically clear that the only hope for this country lies in Christianity, which as an Atheist I simply cannot abide by. Some of the passersby were also voicing their opposition to what McLamb was preaching.

2 people fainted due to the heat by my count. It was funny when the first person fainted, and speaker asked if there was a doctor in the house, the crowd started up a chant for Ron Paul to minister to the stricken attendee.

Also, as far as the # of people attending, I would venture a guess at about 2000. The march was probably a full mile long or so.

american.swan
07-12-2008, 05:28 PM
Good post. And I whole heartedly agree with your assessment on the Christian issue. Perhaps we should stomach some of that because the word "Creator" is in our constitution with the idea that you can do whatever the heck you want with your life and that means not being Christian if you want to. Also, Christians make up a good bunch of brainwashed GOP voters and we could use their votes. As a church goer myself, I still agree with your assessment. The Christian pandering could have gone too far and I wasn't even in the audience.

thx1149
07-12-2008, 05:29 PM
I was over at the rally as well and had similar impressions. I'm guessing there may have been 5000 or so people, but I really don't know how to tell. 1500 sounds low to me. I don't know what went wrong with revolutionmarch.com's pledge thing, but I would guess we had less than half of the 15000 that pledged to show up. The lawn by the capitol is pretty big and pretty wide. A lot of people were hiding in the edges where there were shade and trees. Up front it was really wide which left our group really spread wide but towards the back gave a lot of extra green lawn making it look smaller than it may have been.

Some of the speakers were really good, but some were pretty questionable.

I don't know the names of the speakers. Perhaps someone else can add those in if anyone wants to know.

A few of them brought up Christianity and God. All of it was unnecessary, and one was very excessive. It wasn't terrible, but I think it makes the message more inaccessible to those who that doesn't ring well with it. Of course it could have the opposite effect on people who like that sort of thing. Personally, I see it as unnecessary and even weakening the arguments when people use god to explain what we need to do, where our rights come from, and other such things. The discussion can be much simpler and more sensible without taking it to that level where things become very sensitive very quickly.

There was another guy (Jeff Lewis) who was against illegal immigrants. He thought that anyone who was for any form of amnesty was a traitor. To him illegal immigration is an invasion, and so the federal government has the responsibility to protect from it. Of course he went off on how illegals are responsible for crime and all that. To me he sounded a bit over the edge and way too extreme. I don't understand what he was doing there or how his almost xenophobic message fit in to the rally.

Then we had our 911 truther conspiracy theorist guy. I think there are a lot of good questions asked by the truthers, but at the same time I am highly doubtful that we will ever get any answers or accomplish much by pushing. This guy wasn't asking questions or showing evidence. He already knew the answer. Some people within our government were in on it. He then went off on red & blue dots on mailboxes and how after the coming takeover they would use that decide to send you to a camp, kill you, or let you work.

Those were the three bad ones I could think of. We probably would have been better off without them. Actually, it likely won't matter too much. I saw hardly any media there. But like theSkeptic pointed out, if the press were up for attacking these speakers gave plenty of ammunition. Also, for those who were wondering there wasn't much police presence either. They were definitely there, but maybe only 2 dozen officers wandering around. I didn't see them bothering anyone and they were in normal uniform. No riot gear or other nonsense. It was refreshing to see them behaving the way police should behave.

There were good speakers too. A lady (Marcy Brooks) spoke about being in a jury and getting someone off for violating a tax law because the court refused to let them see the law. She was pretty good except she didn't extend it beyond tax cases, didn't mention common-law jury nullification, and kept bringing up god. Apparently God gets to decide who goes in the jury box.

A couple of authors spoke and were pretty decent. There was a little bit of inspiring and insightful stuff said that may be worth watching when it hits youtube. I'd recommend listening to Naomi Wolf's speech. If you are interested in the NAFTA highway Terri Hall was good.
Adam Kokesh is also worth listening to. Nothing too spectacular, but Chuck Baldwin is also worth hearing.

Ron Paul's speech was alright. I was actually disappointed in some ways. His speeches are fairly predictable. His message is good, but we've all heard it many times over now. I was hoping for something new. I was hoping to finally hear more about what the CFL is going to do. Instead he gave a standard Ron Paul speech. That's a good thing, don't get me wrong. I was just hoping for something new.

I am a little worried at this point about the rally in September. I won't be able to make that one. It would be a real shame if the showing was worse than this, especially since they got such a big place and they are claiming the media has interest.

Overall the rally was alright. I left after Paul's speech and I'm guessing at least half of the people there did. They still had a couple speakers and musical acts left to go. In some ways a smaller place than the capitol may have been better at keeping it looking like a large crowd and keeping everyone closer together rather than being really spread out. Of course, the capitol is an appropriate place in other ways. I would have liked to have seen more good speakers and less extremist messages. I do think this was a success. More people would have been better, but it was still a nice crowd and some good speeches.

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 05:32 PM
2 people fainted due to the heat by my count. It was funny when the first person fainted, and speaker asked if there was a doctor in the house, the crowd started up a chant for Ron Paul to minister to the stricken attendee.

I was standing right by the stairs, and he literally almost fell on me. I instinctively dodged and his head just missed my feet. I would've tried to catch him I only saw him falling out of the corner of my eye.

I felt sorry for the guy - he was all dressed up. I hated that it happened during Michael Scheuer, who I think is one of the most important voices in this movement because of his terrorism credentials.

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 05:34 PM
Yes, the Christian element was way overplayed by some speakers. One reason I really respected Chuck Baldwin was that he pretty much left it out of the equation. I also knew Ron Paul was a Christian but supported him because he didn't try to take advantage of it, like, say, Huckabee... and I trust men like Ron Paul or Baldwin won't try to turn the country into Bibleland if they were given the power.

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 05:45 PM
1500 sounds low to me.

Everyone was definitely spread out - I waited until Ron Paul was speaking and people came in from the corners to try to assess. I would be very, very reluctant to say more than 2,000 were there. I think 1,000-1,500 is more likely.



Ron Paul's speech was alright. I was actually disappointed in some ways. His speeches are fairly predictable. His message is good, but we've all heard it many times over now.

Yeah, though I loved hearing him live for the first time... but in the debates, I think he lost several opportunities to score major points by devolving into a discussion on his main points - foreign policy and fiscal policy - on any and every question. Sometimes I felt they could've asked him what his favorite food was, and it would have turned into a lecture on Iraq.

Don't get me wrong, these are MAJOR issues that the American people need to have pounded into their heads, but at times in the debates it made him look like a one trick pony. He is so incredibly smart, and could come up with answers for all kinds of issues that would make his opponents like incompetent. Unfortunately this isn't always the image that came across... :(

rajibo
07-12-2008, 05:49 PM
All the previous posts sum up my impressions of the rally pretty well. I estimated about 2000-2500 people there, which I found disappointing. That means there were 13000 turkeys who skimped on a pledge. I think there were more people at the Philly rally. I bailed early cause the heat was just too much, but at least I showed up.

I also wish they would have left out the more radical speakers. There were tons of tourists who were probably turned off by a lot of that. Especially when they hear "9-11 was an inside job." Joe America just doesn't want to be a part of that.

I did get to see dinosaurs in the Smithsonian. Haven't been there since I was a kid....:)

american.swan
07-12-2008, 05:49 PM
Yes, the Christian element was way overplayed by some speakers. One reason I really respected Chuck Baldwin was that he pretty much left it out of the equation. I also knew Ron Paul was a Christian but supported him because he didn't try to take advantage of it, like, say, Huckabee... and I trust men like Ron Paul or Baldwin won't try to turn the country into Bibleland if they were given the power.

I'd like to say one last thing about the Christian angle. Many on this board have never lived aboad. I have. And I know what it means to not live in a Christian nation. The US, it's laws, the publics ethics, morals, and the like are heavily influenced by Christian principles and you may not realize just how much of your day to day life is influenced because of that. The US currently has forgotten the Christian principle of freedom to not be Christain.

SnappleLlama
07-12-2008, 05:50 PM
Just got back from the march and rally. I have to agree about some of the speakers espousing Christian ideals (whatever happened to the separation of church and state?), but most people applauded just the same.

RON PAUL WAS WITHIN 20 FEET OF ME!!!! I was so excited...I snapped all kinds of pictures with my friend's camera (mine had conveniently died halfway through the speakers list)...Ron made this joke about arguing with his staff about certain things. He said something to the effect of "how dare they argue with me! Don't they know who I am?!" LOL!! It was awesome, because Ron Paul, always the humble gentleman, made the joke...nobody else could've pulled that one off!

AHG!! I have a crazy sunburn, and for awhile there, I thought I was going to pass out, but I had a good time....Chuck Baldwin even walked right up to me and shook my hand, which was pretty awesome. Naomi Wolfe was great, as well.

Okay, I need water...sorry if this post is a bit jumbled. I'm exhausted!! RON PAUL!!!!!!

jesco
07-12-2008, 06:17 PM
To the skeptic, I agree 100% with your review. man, the fella from iraq vets against the war made me want to fight harder than ever for Liberty! I would say 3000+ due to the heat, they were milling around, hard to count. to those who didnt come, shame on you. excuses are like a**h*les, and your's stinks.

pauletteNV
07-12-2008, 06:26 PM
It would appear Bob Barr was noticably absent. In the back of my mind, I keep wondering if he isn't a plant to the libertarian party from the Republican Party to distract form Dr. Paul and possibly even Baldwin. (As an aside, I will only vote for Ron Paul or Ron Paul Republicans for other offices, or I will abstain from the vote.) Ever since I saw Barr during his prosecutory role of Bill Clinton, I admired him in some ways, but I wouldn't want him as an enemy...I'd be afraid he wouldn't play fair and use every tactic possible. I don't want that in a President, much less one who seems to have done his own share of flip flopping. I'd prefer religion not be an a topic in a candidacy and that the issue be handled as Ron Paul does. He just fulfills my qualifications as a President...one that during this hard time for our country we desperately need. Nice reporting all....only wish there had been more participants and sorry I couldn't make it.

Dr.3D
07-12-2008, 06:26 PM
Jack McLamb was especially nutty, and told everyone that the government had instituted a program wherein they marked your mailbox with a red, blue, or pink sticker, and when "foreign troops invade", the stickers will tell them who to kill, who to leave alone, and who to take to the concentration camps now being built by Halliburton.

Now you have me wondering what those stickers are really for.
I've noticed them in nearly all of the states I've been in.
I have one on my mail box and I don't live anywhere near a fire hydrant, so it can't be used to mark proximity to a fire hydrant. I don't subscribe to any newspapers so I doubt it is used for that. The mail carrier doesn't know anything about them.

What the heck are those stickers really about?

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 06:28 PM
Yeah, Bob Barr...you'd think he'd try to gain support from the Ron Paul bloc.

Speaking of - I'm still pissed that RP didn't run third party.

The GOP shit on him, and he needs to shit right back by guaranteeing that they lose this election. He also owes it to the country to make sure the debacle of a McCain presidency never happens... I don't look forward to a welfare state under Obama, but this war has got to stop.

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 06:30 PM
Now you have me wondering what those stickers are really for.
...
What the heck are those stickers really about?

You've got to be kidding.

If the government was going to implement a plan to mark targets, I think they could come up with something a bit more sophisticated than stickers on mailboxes.

Otherwise, I'll just go to Wal-Mart and buy a pink sticker.

RickyJ
07-12-2008, 06:32 PM
Now you have me wondering what those stickers are really for.
I've noticed them in nearly all of the states I've been in.
I have one on my mail box and I don't live anywhere near a fire hydrant, so it can't be used to mark proximity to a fire hydrant. I don't subscribe to any newspapers so I doubt it is used for that. The mail carrier doesn't know anything about them.

What the heck are those stickers really about?

I have never seen those stickers and what he said there about the color codes on mail boxes was kind of nutty. I think maybe he doesn't know much about the information age since he is an older guy. We are all in a database file and are marked as enemies of the state by the CIA I can assure you of that. But what he said about 9/11 was completely correct. It was an inside job and they did indeed blow those towers up.

Dr.3D
07-12-2008, 06:32 PM
You've got to be kidding.

If the government was going to implement a plan to mark targets, I think they could come up with something a bit more sophisticated than stickers on mailboxes.

Otherwise, I'll just go to Wal-Mart and buy a pink sticker.

I never said the government had anything to do with them.
I really wonder what they are used for.

Oh, and since you said pink sticker was good, what is the supposed color coding?

RickyJ
07-12-2008, 06:35 PM
Yeah he was kind of discrediting the real 9/11 truth movement with that crazy talk. If you had a red one he said you would be taken out and shot when martial law started. One girl that was near me when he said that gasped like it was true.

RickyJ
07-12-2008, 06:37 PM
OK what are all you people staying in DC tonight doing?

RSLudlum
07-12-2008, 06:37 PM
One girl that was near me when he said that gasped like it was true.


She must have a red sticker! :p

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 06:44 PM
Ricky, I started a thread about that...it would be cool to have drinks or something.


The real 9/11 truth movement? What do you mean?

MRoCkEd
07-12-2008, 06:47 PM
The real 9/11 truth movement? What do you mean?
I think he means that people who have reasonable questions and concerns about the 9/11 story are discredited by those with extremely crazy views like "the people in the airplanes faked their deaths!!!" etc

jesco
07-12-2008, 06:48 PM
as a volunteer firefighter, we will use stickers to mark the homes we have visited for money collection/donations, so as not to overly bother the home owners.

sunshine05
07-12-2008, 06:51 PM
I just came from the rally too and I think there were WAY more than 1-3000 people there. We estimated about 20,000. There were a lot of people there.
The march was great and I was so glad to be a part of it. The rally was good, but I think there were too many speakers considering how hot it was. It was tough waiting for Ron Paul to finally speak at 4. I will try to post some pictures when I get home from DC. I'm so glad I went!

wgadget
07-12-2008, 06:54 PM
Just got back from the march and rally. I have to agree about some of the speakers espousing Christian ideals (whatever happened to the separation of church and state?), but most people applauded just the same.

RON PAUL WAS WITHIN 20 FEET OF ME!!!! I was so excited...I snapped all kinds of pictures with my friend's camera (mine had conveniently died halfway through the speakers list)...Ron made this joke about arguing with his staff about certain things. He said something to the effect of "how dare they argue with me! Don't they know who I am?!" LOL!! It was awesome, because Ron Paul, always the humble gentleman, made the joke...nobody else could've pulled that one off!

AHG!! I have a crazy sunburn, and for awhile there, I thought I was going to pass out, but I had a good time....Chuck Baldwin even walked right up to me and shook my hand, which was pretty awesome. Naomi Wolfe was great, as well.

Okay, I need water...sorry if this post is a bit jumbled. I'm exhausted!! RON PAUL!!!!!!

Hey, Snapple....Is he just as handsome as you imagined him to be?

:)

SnappleLlama
07-12-2008, 07:00 PM
Hey, Snapple....Is he just as handsome as you imagined him to be?

:)

OMG...that and MORE!!! :)

Actually, I was okay until Ron showed up...then I turned to the next person and said, "ooh...is it hot out here, or is it just Dr. Paul?!"

*swooooons!!!!*

RON PAUL, YOU ARE AWESOME(LY HANDSOME)!!! :D:D:D

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 07:02 PM
Ron Paul's granddaughters are more attractive than he is.


I just came from the rally too and I think there were WAY more than 1-3000 people there. We estimated about 20,000.

No offense, but that is absolutely crazy.

The best indication of the crowd was when everyone was coming in from the shade to hear Dr. Paul. There were no more than 2,000. I'd be reluctant to say there were that many.

awake
07-12-2008, 07:05 PM
good day...

MRoCkEd
07-12-2008, 07:07 PM
Ron Paul's granddaughters are more attractive than he is.

no!

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 07:10 PM
I edited my initial post to note this, but Wonkette did pick up on Jack McLamb pretty quickly... and I guarantee you someone in the press will.

As I said over in the commentary (http://wonkette.com/401063/we-survived#comments) over there (which you guys should jump in on), I thought Ron Paul learned from the newsletter fiasco - be careful who you let speak for the movement.

MRoCkEd
07-12-2008, 07:14 PM
I edited my initial post to note this, but Wonkette did pick up on Jack McLamb pretty quickly... and I guarantee you someone in the press will.

As I said over in the commentary (http://wonkette.com/401063/we-survived#comments) over there (which you guys should jump in on), I thought Ron Paul learned from the newsletter fiasco - be careful who you let speak for the movement.
ron paul did not set up this rally at all

LibertyInJeopardy
07-12-2008, 07:14 PM
I was very turned off by some of the speakers, especially the theocracy and anti-immigrant sections.

Was glad to be a part of it overall. Particularly liked the speeches by Iraq Veterans and Dr Paul.

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 07:16 PM
The thought that struck me during the anti-immigration speech was, instead of spending $3 billion on a wall, why not just:

- criminalize and punish knowing employment of illegals
- require employers to verify SSNs
- repeal the citizenship by birth amendment for illegals

Then, you don't need a wall, because illegals won't be able to find work over here.

And you've even saved $3 billion.

This "wall" mentality is the same thing behind the ridiculous "war on drugs". You can never end it on the supply side.


Duh.



ps. Yeah, the Veterans of Iraq speech rocked! That guy has got some fire.

rajibo
07-12-2008, 07:18 PM
I just came from the rally too and I think there were WAY more than 1-3000 people there. We estimated about 20,000. There were a lot of people there.
The march was great and I was so glad to be a part of it. The rally was good, but I think there were too many speakers considering how hot it was. It was tough waiting for Ron Paul to finally speak at 4. I will try to post some pictures when I get home from DC. I'm so glad I went!

YIKES! The sun must have really got to you...

There MAY have been 20,000 people exposed to the rally throughout the day with all the tourists around, but there was no way there were 20,000 people AT the rally.

Kalifornia
07-12-2008, 07:38 PM
I saw the Naomi wolf speach. I wasnt impressed. She took her analysis into the realm of irresponsible. Kokesh was good.

Kalifornia
07-12-2008, 07:39 PM
The thought that struck me during the anti-immigration speech was, instead of spending $3 billion on a wall, why not just:

- criminalize and punish knowing employment of illegals
- require employers to verify SSNs
- repeal the citizenship by birth amendment for illegals

Then, you don't need a wall, because illegals won't be able to find work over here.

And you've even saved $3 billion.

This "wall" mentality is the same thing behind the ridiculous "war on drugs". You can never end it on the supply side.


Duh.



ps. Yeah, the Veterans of Iraq speech rocked! That guy has got some fire.

dont you mean anti ILLEGAL immigration?

MRoCkEd
07-12-2008, 07:43 PM
The thought that struck me during the anti-immigration speech was, instead of spending $3 billion on a wall, why not just:

- criminalize and punish knowing employment of illegals
- require employers to verify SSNs
- repeal the citizenship by birth amendment for illegals

Also
- no amnesty
- no welfare state

mrchubbs
07-12-2008, 07:48 PM
It would appear Bob Barr was noticably absent. In the back of my mind, I keep wondering if he isn't a plant to the libertarian party from the Republican Party to distract form Dr. Paul and possibly even Baldwin. (As an aside, I will only vote for Ron Paul or Ron Paul Republicans for other offices, or I will abstain from the vote.) Ever since I saw Barr during his prosecutory role of Bill Clinton, I admired him in some ways, but I wouldn't want him as an enemy...I'd be afraid he wouldn't play fair and use every tactic possible. I don't want that in a President, much less one who seems to have done his own share of flip flopping. I'd prefer religion not be an a topic in a candidacy and that the issue be handled as Ron Paul does. He just fulfills my qualifications as a President...one that during this hard time for our country we desperately need. Nice reporting all....only wish there had been more participants and sorry I couldn't make it.

Bob Barr was at Freedom Fest in Las Vegas today. Ron Paul participated this year via teleconference. Peter Schiff and Mary Ruwart were both also at Freedom Fest.
http://www.freedomfest.com/speakers.htm

If not for the rally in his honor Ron Paul would have likely been in Vegas this weekend.


Enjoy.

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 07:59 PM
Whoever Paultardette is on Wonkette - my comment about the Middle East was sarcastic. I tried to post a clarification but the mods won't let it through. Obviously they are only interested in one thing.

Michael Landon
07-12-2008, 08:04 PM
Now you have me wondering what those stickers are really for.
I've noticed them in nearly all of the states I've been in.
I have one on my mail box and I don't live anywhere near a fire hydrant, so it can't be used to mark proximity to a fire hydrant. I don't subscribe to any newspapers so I doubt it is used for that. The mail carrier doesn't know anything about them.

What the heck are those stickers really about?

As a Letter Carrier, I've never seen nor heard of these stickers. Having been a carrier for over 11 years it was rather surprising when I heard about these in an earlier post, could someone post a picture of one for me so I know what you are talking about? I plan on checking every one of my boxes on Monday to see if I notice one and then I plan on asking my supervisor what the deal is.

Thanks.
- ML

RickyJ
07-12-2008, 08:06 PM
Ricky, I started a thread about that...it would be cool to have drinks or something.


The real 9/11 truth movement? What do you mean?

The one that seeks the truth, not the one started by the government to discredit the truth.

Kalifornia
07-12-2008, 08:06 PM
As a Letter Carrier, I've never seen nor heard of these stickers. Having been a carrier for over 11 years it was rather surprising when I heard about these in an earlier post, could someone post a picture of one for me so I know what you are talking about? I plan on checking every one of my boxes on Monday to see if I notice one and then I plan on asking my supervisor what the deal is.

Thanks.
- ML

Theres no damn sticker on my mailbox :)

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 08:08 PM
I wonder if putting a Ron Paul sticker on your mailbox would mark you for a kill just like a red sticker would.

SnappleLlama
07-12-2008, 08:08 PM
Perhaps I'm missing the whole "sticker" thing, but in my parents' neighborhood (I live in an apt., so I don't have a regular mailbox), there are stickers placed on the mailboxes to benefit the local newspaper carriers who need to know which papers that household should receive. Are these the same stickers everyone is talking about?

RickyJ
07-12-2008, 08:09 PM
You have the clear sticker. It's there you just can't see it, but they can with their ray guns.

RickyJ
07-12-2008, 08:11 PM
I wonder if putting a Ron Paul sticker on your mailbox would mark you for a kill just like a red sticker would.

It's too bad Jack had to say that. Most everything else he said I agreed with.

agitator
07-12-2008, 08:13 PM
Ron Paul's granddaughters are more attractive than he is.



No offense, but that is absolutely crazy.

The best indication of the crowd was when everyone was coming in from the shade to hear Dr. Paul. There were no more than 2,000. I'd be reluctant to say there were that many.

You showed up after 1pm. The march was over by 11:20.

I was there from 9:30am. We easily had more than double what we had at the rally in MN the Monday before Super Tuesday, and that was well over 4000.

I, as I would imagine many, did not stick around because of the heat. As I walked to the Metro station, I passed many RP supporters away form the main area in the shade. My friend and I left after Griffin's speech.

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 08:17 PM
I, as I would imagine many, did not stick around because of the heat. As I walked to the Metro station, I passed many RP supporters away form the main area in the shade. My friend and I left after Griffin's speech.

The march pics looked great, I'm glad there were more there.

However, assuming double (which would be 8k), and my upper limit of 1,500, that's 6,500 people who left before 1. I just don't understand that. It was hot as hell, and I wanted to leave, but I wanted to see Ron Paul. Everyone did. I just don't see 75% of the people busting their ass to get here, then heading home after they walk.

Dr.3D
07-12-2008, 08:17 PM
As a Letter Carrier, I've never seen nor heard of these stickers. Having been a carrier for over 11 years it was rather surprising when I heard about these in an earlier post, could someone post a picture of one for me so I know what you are talking about? I plan on checking every one of my boxes on Monday to see if I notice one and then I plan on asking my supervisor what the deal is.

Thanks.
- ML

Just look for any kind of reflective sticker. Most of the ones I see around here are round and about the size of a nickel. The one on my box looks more like somebody cut a piece off of a roll of sticky tape. It is sort of square and about two inches on each side. A year or so ago, my son asked me why I put a piece of duct tape on the mail box. But this is not really duct tape, it is a very reflective tape that looks about the same size as a piece of duct tape. I have also seen them on newspaper boxes.

I don't take the paper so I doubt mine has anything to do with newspapers. I've never been approached by the volunteer fire department for donations either.

SnappleLlama
07-12-2008, 08:21 PM
The march pics looked great, I'm glad there were more there.

However, assuming double (which would be 8k), and my upper limit of 1,500, that's 6,500 people who left before 1. I just don't understand that. It was hot as hell, and I wanted to leave, but I wanted to see Ron Paul. Everyone did. I just don't see 75% of the people busting their ass to get here, then heading home after they walk.

I got a sunburn for Ron Paul! It was extremely hot today in D.C., and we ran out of water quickly, but I ended up being only a few feet away from him and was able to hear his speech....that made everything worth it!

RickyJ
07-12-2008, 08:24 PM
I got a sunburn for Ron Paul! It was extremely hot today in D.C., and we ran out of water quickly, but I ended up being only a few feet away from him and was able to hear his speech....that made everything worth it!

I thought I was gettting burned but all that bullfrog sunscreen I sprayed on really worked. No burn at all.

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 08:25 PM
I was very close, too. Right side (when facing the stage), just a few feet from the stairs. Tall guy with a white striped shirt.

thefam
07-12-2008, 08:27 PM
My hubby and son went and they estimated at least 8k. When Ron Paul was in Denver there was 3k that came to hear him at the convention center and hubby said there was more than double that. He said alot of people were under the trees because of the heat. They enjoyed the rally and are glad they went.

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 08:29 PM
Sorry, there is just no way.

zade
07-12-2008, 08:41 PM
don't be a party pooper. Let us believe there were 8k :cool:

mport1
07-12-2008, 08:57 PM
However, I think CFL made a mistake by allowing a few of the speakers to say some really fringe things... both in the area of 9/11 truth and Christian activism.

First of all, this movement is about restoring the authority of the Constitution, not making America Christian. A few people took this concept too far. I noticed young people shaking their heads and wincing at ridiculous statements like, "First of all, if you want to be on the jury, God has to put you there." (Marcy Brookes discussing her role as a juror in the acquital of a man charged with tax evasion)

There were a few speakers who made kooky statements like this, and if the press were so inclined, they could take that kind of stuff and run with it. This is already a movement that struggles with credibility due to its fringe members.

The big thing was the 9/11 truth stuff. Jack McLamb was especially nutty, and told everyone that the government had instituted a program wherein they marked your mailbox with a red, blue, or pink sticker, and when "foreign troops invade", the stickers will tell them who to kill, who to leave alone, and who to take to the concentration camps now being built by Halliburton. I don't put killing American citizens past our current administration, but I can tick off about 10 reasons why this statement is utterly ridiculous. He also blatantly stated that the government blew up the buildings on 9/11, and played the Christianity card VERY hard.

I'm not trying to issue a verdict on 9/11 truth - I've never studied it, and I don't discount it. But rallies like that are NOT the place for radical statements, and I am disappointed that CFL allowed some of the things to be said that they did.

Things like that allow the media, and morons like the Wonkette writers, to continue to marginalize and write off Ron Paul supporters as wackos. They'll completely ignore the 90% that's great and focus on the 10% that's fringe.


(Note: Wonkette DID pick up on McLamb right around the time I made this post. As I said...ignore things like Iraq veterans, NYT bestselling authors, and Congressmen, and focus on this guy. They also let me make some comments, then, after I made a sarcastic one about nuking the Middle East, refused to let any more comments through.)

Wow, can't believe they let a nut like that speak. Hope the MSM doesn't pick up on that.

NH4RonPaul
07-12-2008, 09:01 PM
Just look for any kind of reflective sticker. Most of the ones I see around here are round and about the size of a nickel. The one on my box looks more like somebody cut a piece off of a roll of sticky tape. It is sort of square and about two inches on each side. A year or so ago, my son asked me why I put a piece of duct tape on the mail box. But this is not really duct tape, it is a very reflective tape that looks about the same size as a piece of duct tape. I have also seen them on newspaper boxes.

I don't take the paper so I doubt mine has anything to do with newspapers. I've never been approached by the volunteer fire department for donations either.

I am constantly removing these from my mailbox. Since the mail is not delivered at night, there is no reason to have any kind of reflective stickers on the box.

I have never however connected this with anything nefarious. I will keep watching.

AFM
07-12-2008, 09:12 PM
You think thats mail they're putting in your mailboxes?
FREE YOUR MIND

sidster
07-12-2008, 09:15 PM
I am constantly removing these from my mailbox. Since the mail is not delivered at night, there is no reason to have any kind of reflective stickers on the box.

I have never however connected this with anything nefarious. I will keep watching.

I'm curious about these stickers now reading all your comments.
NH4RonPaul, I'd be curious if your sticker comes back and if it
does, how long it took to be replaced. Can you make sure to post
an updated if this does happen?

Also, can those of you that have these post them on a thread in
the "Off Topic" section under a relevant title?

Thanks!

TheSkeptic, good post btw! 5 stars from me!

RockEnds
07-12-2008, 09:30 PM
Okay, you made me check my mailbox. :rolleyes: No stickers. I'm either safe, or I'm scheduled to meet my doom before doomsday. Hard to say.

Do any of you who have reflective tape on your mailboxes have your boxes on posts by the street or road? Is there any chance it's just there to prevent traffic from hitting your mailbox?

Dr.3D
07-12-2008, 09:36 PM
Okay, you made me check my mailbox. :rolleyes: No stickers. I'm either safe, or I'm scheduled to meet my doom before doomsday. Hard to say.

Do any of you who have reflective tape on your mailboxes have your boxes on posts by the street or road? Is there any chance it's just there to prevent traffic from hitting your mailbox?

LOL, the reflective tape never stopped the kiddie drivers from hitting it.
In fact, I saw one jump up on the embankment with is truck just to run over it. :p

RockEnds
07-12-2008, 09:41 PM
LOL, the reflective tape never stopped the kiddie drivers from hitting it.
In fact, I saw one jump up on the embankment with is truck just to run over it. :p

Kids these days. You'd think with the price of gas and all... ;) Well, it sounds like what you need to do is call your County Board of Supervisors and tell them the tape isn't working, and you would like a barricade. They had some left over stuff from Iraq that they brought to Iowa for the floods. :D

Dr.3D
07-12-2008, 09:43 PM
Kids these days. You'd think with the price of gas and all... ;) Well, it sounds like what you need to do is call your County Board of Supervisors and tell them the tape isn't working, and you would like a barricade. They had some left over stuff from Iraq that they brought to Iowa for the floods. :D

Heh, I asked if I could put in a 4" pipe filled with concrete, but they said that might kill some fool. So I just have to let the mail box look out for itself.

johnnyv8
07-12-2008, 09:57 PM
Just got home to Jersey from the March, GREAT TIME. It was my first march, first time hearing Dr. Paul in person, first time doing anything w/ politics.


I def had a love/hate relationship between the speakers, I'm all about freedom of religion but at the same time religion needs to stay away from gov. I'm very open mind towards anything including that 911 was inside job however, I don't believe it is a inside job and neither does Dr. Paul.

I though the Gentlemen from the veterans against Iraq War was GREAT. I love the guy who write that book(cant remeber the name of it), he was great.

also, on the way home 2nite; i could not figure out why this car was trying to catch up to me in till they where side by side w/ me shoving a Ron Paul sigh out the window ( I guess they notice the giant Ron Paul for president sticker i had on the back windshield of my car)


BTW, RON PAUL granddaughters are HOT

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 10:05 PM
BTW, RON PAUL granddaughters are HOT

Yeah...all of a sudden my interest in politics was heightened.

SteveB-NY
07-12-2008, 10:20 PM
Just back to NY and wanted to add my two cents.

I was VERY pleasently suprised by Wolff. She was thoughtful, energetic, and made a point of being inclusive. We may not all agree on everything but if we agree on the essentials that should be enough.
The speaker from Vets against the war was magnificent. He has immediate credibility and was the most passionate speaker there in my opinion.
The initial speaker - the gentleman who wrote the letter to America [sorry I can't recall his name] was a wonderful choice as an opener. He introduced the themes, he mixed humor with his message, and he had the same gentle demeanor as RP.
Scheuer was, as expected, solid and thoughtful.
The gentleman who wrote about the Fed [again I'm sorry I can't recall his name exactly] did a very good job but from what I had heard about him I anticipated that. Same with the author of Freedom to Facism who by the way was very nice when I spoke with him briefly as we were leaving.
Howard Phillips sounded much like when I first heard him over twenty years ago. I must admit that when he was on I was getting woozy from the heat so I couldn't give him my full attention.
RP was RP. Need anything more be said. Sorry he had to leave right after.

Now for the bad. The guy from NC who went off on the "invasion" by illegals. Sorry but you lost me. The Arizaona police officer - while I respect your service there is a difference between healthy scepticism and the illness of paranoia.

I agree with an earlier poster who mentioned that the vendors/hawkers of websites/local candidates who were walking around constantly were a distraction but I could live with it. Perhaps they could have had a a dedicated area by the side for them.

The March itself, Since I missed the 6:02 train by ten minutes I missed the first half of the March but the half mile I was in was good. Loud crowd, interesting looks from spectators on the sidewalk.

Estimating the crowd size is difficult since so many people were bunched in the back and on the sides and lots of people seemed to leave early most likely due to the heat but I honestly cannot believe that even at the height we had 10K at the rally. I was impressed by the passion of the crowd but underwhelmed by the size.

Roundtrip Amtrak - $196
Parking in Newark - $18
water and snacks - $11.39

Standing for Freedom - Priceless

QCB79
07-12-2008, 10:31 PM
I would guess they were put there by the Chinese food ninjas, the same ones who put the menu on your door or mailbox but yet you never see them do it. it's color coded, they spy on you from the bushes and figure out which day of the week you are never home and thats when they send the menu ninja to your place.

:D

cant be any worse than that other guys theory

Eureeka
07-12-2008, 10:32 PM
There's no way the attendance was only 1-3k. I was at the Philly rally, which was estimated to have 5,000 attendees, and there were at least double that at the revolution march.

rajibo
07-12-2008, 10:38 PM
There's no way the attendance was only 1-3k. I was at the Philly rally, which was estimated to have 5,000 attendees, and there were at least double that at the revolution march.

I thought there were more people at the Philly rally. And I didn't think there was 5k there.

TheSkeptic
07-12-2008, 10:46 PM
cant be any worse than that other guys theory

What's really bad is that when he said the line about people being taken to Halliburton's concentration camps, this guy in the crowd got really excited, waved his arm, and shouted, "I said that! I said that!"

RadioDJforPaul
07-12-2008, 10:51 PM
Come on guys. Anyone that is saying there were only 1,500 there must have not went to the same rally I went too. I'm not gonna through a number out there, but there were way more than that.

RadioDJforPaul
07-12-2008, 11:04 PM
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8422/ronpauldcta5.jpg
ANYONE SEE THEIR HEAD?!

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/82/dcgovacountmx5.jpg
I had to. I doubt anyone was home!

tonesforjonesbones
07-12-2008, 11:37 PM
I guess Christians aren't allowed freedom of speech .
I'm getting the feeling that the women are voting for Baldwin on looks.
I thought there were too many speakers when I saw the list.
No one mentioned the music..was it good?
I'm glad ya'll had a good time, thanks for marching for our Liberty!!!! Tones

tonesforjonesbones
07-12-2008, 11:38 PM
psssssssssssssst....you were marching so those Christians could get up there and speak..shhhh , don't tell anyone...tones

Peace&Freedom
07-12-2008, 11:45 PM
Naomi Wolfe blew everyone away. She has a lot of energy, and really knows how to captivate and involve an audience. She took a topic that the mainstream media would denigrate as "fringe" - 10 steps by which societies are closed and their people conditioned to accept tyranny - and made it real.

In my opinion, Adam Kokesh from Veterans Against the War gave the most passionate and powerful speech of the day, in terms of sheer power and intensity. I was very glad to see an anti-war veteran presence to help stabilize some of the lunatic ramblings that were slipped in from time to time from others. This guy is eloquent and captivating, and I hope we see more of him in the movement.

Thomas Woods was also phenomenal. In his very engaging speech, he called the administration "bastards". He is, in short, the man.

The problem with calling speakers one doesn't like 'fringe' or crazy is the above. Folks, average voters and the media will still designate any talk about fascism as radical, passionate anti-war rhetoric as extremist, and any description of the administration as 'bastards' as lunatic, whether or not truthers or theocrats speak at the event. Stop singling out liberty issues you disagree with marginalizing labels, while approving of other speakers who are ALSO saying things most voters don't think are mainstream. It's poisoning the Revolution.

Would we tag John Adams for 'extremism' for saying our Republic was created for a moral and religious people, and would not survive under any other kind of people? Many would say time has proven him right. So enough with the 'lunatic' watch stuff. Even debating whether 5 or 10,000 people showed up (for an event originally planned to be for over 100,000) is itself a mark of having a lack of perspective. This event didn't have a mainstream impact, period. It encouraged us, and that's it. We should get over the divisive, self-serving liberty thought-police attitudes, and simply respect all movement folks who speak truth to power, be they anti-war or truther, Christian or anti-Fed, etc. Onward to the St. Paul event.

Anti Federalist
07-13-2008, 12:06 AM
The problem with calling speakers one doesn't like 'fringe' or crazy is the above. Folks, average voters and the media will still designate any talk about fascism as radical, passionate anti-war rhetoric as extremist, and any description of the administration as 'bastards' as lunatic, whether or not truthers or theocrats speak at the event. Stop singling out liberty issues you disagree with marginalizing labels, while approving of other speakers who are ALSO saying things most voters don't think are mainstream. It's poisoning the Revolution.

Would we tag John Adams for 'extremism' for saying our Republic was created for a moral and religious people, and would not survive under any other kind of people? Many would say time has proven him right. So enough with the 'lunatic' watch stuff. Even debating whether 5 or 10,000 people showed up (for an event originally planned to be for over 100,000) is itself a mark of having a lack of perspective. This event didn't have a mainstream impact, period. It encouraged us, and that's it. We should get over the divisive, self-serving liberty thought-police attitudes, and simply respect all movement folks who speak truth to power, be they anti-war or truther, Christian or anti-Fed, etc. Onward to the St. Paul event.

+1776 for the whole.

+1776 x (2) for the highlighted.

People, get it through your collective heads, to the "average" Joe Six Pack and Sally Soccer Mom we are ALL a bunch of nuts.

"Well, we have to be there, cuz the terrorists hate us for our freedoms".

"Without a federal reserve, who will print the money".

"Without social security, people will die in the streets".

"The Constitution is outdated and written for olden times, we can't use it now".

It's idiocy like this that has to overcome, one person at a time.

And we are running out of time, rapidly. We need every freaking freedom minded person out there, giving 110%, to turn this around in time.

I could care a frog's fat ass about what brought people to the freedom movement, atheist, religious, *****, straight, "truther", immigration, monetary issues, war, foreign policy, race, for fuck's sake, no one should care, as long as they have the core issues of freedom and the constitution at heart.

For crying out loud, if we don't get this right, we'll be having this same stupid argument around a FEMA detention center campfire, and that's no shit.

amy31416
07-13-2008, 12:24 AM
People, get it through your collective heads, to the "average" Joe Six Pack and Sally Soccer Mom we are ALL a bunch of nuts.



Yeah. And in that train of thought, I've come to care less and less about appearances. It's still important, whether we like it or not, but is getting less so. I still hate the bullshit over when we sink to the levels of harrassing people and being reactionary, we need to be deliberate and confident.

All I care about anymore, as far as image goes, is that we remain civilized--especially towards each other.

Let's turn this around on them. Let's not let our petty differences be such a big deal--we have so much more in common than we do differences.

I was definitely one of the people who, early on, cranked out on the conspiracy theorists--and I still justify that because appearances were rather important at that time to try to win over the mainstream. That's no longer an option. I'll never be a person who believes that laser beams from outer space took out the towers, and the frustrating thing now is that those bizarre notions downplay the real questions about 9/11.

However, I still believe that nobody is going to get the real answers about any conspiracy until we have a completely different government, so this is still secondary.

Mesogen
07-13-2008, 12:25 AM
Speaking truth to power is one thing. Speaking wacked out crap about stickers on your mailboxes and how sad it is that people aren't forced to be Christians is a thing that draws the wrong kind of attention to any kind of "movement."

BenIsForRon
07-13-2008, 12:55 AM
Somebody here said that there weren't that many police. How did the police know there were going to be so few people there? I guess their intelligence gathering skills are better than ours.

sidster
07-13-2008, 01:03 AM
archive.org (http://web.archive.org/web/20050706024541/http://www.tackamarks.freeservers.com/)

http://web.archive.org/web/20050706024541/http://www.tackamarks.freeservers.com/images/camp_grayling_3_markers_2.jpg

http://web.archive.org/web/20050706024541/http://www.tackamarks.freeservers.com/images/Lake_City_HS.jpg

http://web.archive.org/web/20050706024541/http://www.tackamarks.freeservers.com/images/3_mrks_blue.jpg



Direction markers??
http://web.archive.org/web/20050706024541/http://www.tackamarks.freeservers.com/images/dnrconfercenter.jpg


OK.. i'm getting really curious about these markers. Can someone
post a pic of their marked mailbox?

pacelli
07-13-2008, 01:16 AM
A lot of people seem interested in this issue so...

Please re-direct discussions about marked mailboxes and tacmars to the following thread designed for that topic:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1559969#post1559969

Truth Warrior
07-13-2008, 01:27 AM
Good post. And I whole heartedly agree with your assessment on the Christian issue. Perhaps we should stomach some of that because the word "Creator" is in our constitution with the idea that you can do whatever the heck you want with your life and that means not being Christian if you want to. Also, Christians make up a good bunch of brainwashed GOP voters and we could use their votes. As a church goer myself, I still agree with your assessment. The Christian pandering could have gone too far and I wasn't even in the audience.

Which Constitution article contains "Creator", if I may ask? :confused:

Where did you get your copy? ;)

RonPaulFanInGA
07-13-2008, 01:31 AM
The problem with calling speakers one doesn't like 'fringe' or crazy is the above. Folks, average voters and the media will still designate any talk about fascism as radical, passionate anti-war rhetoric as extremist, and any description of the administration as 'bastards' as lunatic, whether or not truthers or theocrats speak at the event. Stop singling out liberty issues you disagree with marginalizing labels, while approving of other speakers who are ALSO saying things most voters don't think are mainstream. It's poisoning the Revolution.

Would we tag John Adams for 'extremism' for saying our Republic was created for a moral and religious people, and would not survive under any other kind of people? Many would say time has proven him right. So enough with the 'lunatic' watch stuff. Even debating whether 5 or 10,000 people showed up (for an event originally planned to be for over 100,000) is itself a mark of having a lack of perspective. This event didn't have a mainstream impact, period. It encouraged us, and that's it. We should get over the divisive, self-serving liberty thought-police attitudes, and simply respect all movement folks who speak truth to power, be they anti-war or truther, Christian or anti-Fed, etc. Onward to the St. Paul event.

While I agree somewhat, there has to be SOME judgment. George W. Bush probably called himself a "liberty candidate" in 2004 (Iraqi liberty).

Can someone who supports the Iraq war be for liberty and on our side? The PATRIOT act? Higher taxes?

Where is the line?

Truth Warrior
07-13-2008, 01:40 AM
I was standing right by the stairs, and he literally almost fell on me. I instinctively dodged and his head just missed my feet. I would've tried to catch him I only saw him falling out of the corner of my eye.

I felt sorry for the guy - he was all dressed up. I hated that it happened during Michael Scheuer, who I think is one of the most important voices in this movement because of his terrorism credentials.
Maybe the dressed up guy that fainted during the Scheuer speech was from the CIA! :D Distraction/diversion psyop? ;)

Truth Warrior
07-13-2008, 01:58 AM
The thought that struck me during the anti-immigration speech was, instead of spending $3 billion on a wall, why not just:

- criminalize and punish knowing employment of illegals
- require employers to verify SSNs
- repeal the citizenship by birth amendment for illegals

Then, you don't need a wall, because illegals won't be able to find work over here.

And you've even saved $3 billion.

This "wall" mentality is the same thing behind the ridiculous "war on drugs". You can never end it on the supply side.


Duh.



ps. Yeah, the Veterans of Iraq speech rocked! That guy has got some fire.
Perhaps the wall is really more about keeping us in than them out. ;)

revolutionary8
07-13-2008, 02:01 AM
I thought I was gettting burned but all that bullfrog sunscreen I sprayed on really worked. No burn at all.

Sunday, June 29, 2008
Sunblock is Bullshit

I know we do a lot of crazy things that other people don't do. Home birth, Homeschool, and, well, lots of other things I don't want to argue about but this one I have spoken about and HAH HAH HAH I am right.

Sunblock.

It's not good for you, it causes cancer. NOT the sun, mind you, the friggin sun block, OKAY

You can read my ramblings or read those of Mike Adams, who is some kind of expert.

It just isn't logical to me that the SUN- the light of the planet we were born to live on- would be toxic to our SKIN- the only thing designed to get in between our guts and the sun's light.

Mike says...

The scientific evidence, however, shows quite clearly that sunscreen actually promotes cancer by blocking the body's absorption of ultraviolet radiation, which produces vitamin D in the skin. Vitamin D, as recent studies have shown, prevents up to 77% of ALL cancers in women (breast cancer, colon cancer, cervical cancer, lung cancer, brain tumors, multiple myeloma... you name it).



He says lots of other logical things, too but I urge you to read his article so I don't have to paste it all here.

I did a little detective work here, to discover the common ingredients in Sunscreen products and found THIS pdf database and THIS, the Skin Deep cosmetics ingredients database

So- the common sun-blocking ingredients are..

Homosalate (moderate hazard)
A UVB protector. Research indicates it is a weak hormone disruptor, forms toxic metabolites, and can enhance the penetration of a toxic herbicide. Restricted in Japan for cosmetics, Enhances skin absorption of toxins

Octinoxate (moderate hazard)
The most widely used sunscreen ingredient, known for its low potential to sensitize skin or act as a phototallergen. Estrogenic effects are noted in laboratory animals as well as disruption of thyroid hormone and brain signaling. Produces excess reactive oxygen species that can interfere with cellular signaling, cause mutations, lead to cell death and may be implicated in cardiovascular disease. Ingredient is suspected or measured to accumulate in people.

Oxybenzone (high hazard)
Associated with photoallergic reactions. This chemical absorbs through the skin in significant amounts. It contaminates the bodies of 97% of Americans according to Centers for Disease Control research. Outlawed in Japan. Produces excess reactive oxygen species that can interfere with cellular signaling, cause mutations, lead to cell death and may be implicated in cardiovascular disease.

Octisalate (moderate hazard)
Octisalate is a weak UVB absorber with a generally good safety profile among sunscreen ingredients. It is a penetration enhancer, which may increase the amount of other ingredients passing through skin.


Zinc Oxide low - high risk
Zinc has a long history of use in sunscreen and other skin care products; little absorption and no adverse health effects are reported. Some sunscreens with zinc contain nanoparticles which do not penetrate skin but may pose toxicity concerns if inhaled (like in SPRAY SUNSCREEN) or in the environment. One or more animal studies show brain and nervous system effects at high doses. One or more animal studies show skin irritation at moderate doses

Titanium Dioxide low- high risk
Titanium dioxide has a long history of use in sunscreen and other products. It appears safe for use on skin, due to low penetration but inhalation is a concern. Some titanium sunscreens (SPRAY SUNSCREEN) contain nano-size particles may have greater toxicity to body tissues and environment.


AvoBenz One not listed

Octocrylene (moderate hazard)
Octocrylene may be used in combination with other UV absorbers to achieve higher SPF formulas. It produces oxygen radicals when exposed to UV light. Restricted in cosmetics (recommendations or requirements) - use, concentration, or manufacturing restrictions - Japan - restricted for use in cosmetics (concentration limit)

Padimate-O (moderate hazard)
A derivative of the once-popular PABA sunscreen ingredient, research shows this chemical releases free radicals, damages DNA, has estrogenic activity, and still causes allergic reactions in some people.Restricted in Japan, bla bla bla this is getting old

Ensulizole (moderate hazard)
Known to produce free radicals when exposed to sunlight, leading to damage of DNA, this UVB protector may have the potential to cause cancer. Restricted in Japan.


Meradimate (low hazard)
A moderately effective UVA protector not permitted for use in Europe or Japan. 1 study found that it produces damaging reactive oxygen species when exposed to sunlight.

italic text notes are from me

Even though the EPA warns that

"Small children are ten times more sensitive to most chemicals than are adults."

and a lot of these ingredients increase skin absorption of pesticides (read above)

They've got a cute little downloadable song that teaches kids to use sunblock as part of an entire SunWise curriculum for teachers, parents and communities.

Anyhow- the bottom line is- don't burn. Wear a wide-brimmed hat and limit sun exposure until you've built up a little base coat of protection. It's sun burns (and sun block) that cause cell damage. So use your brain and get out of the sun if you're prone to burning.

If we lived in tribes and spent most of our time outdoors, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, we'd all be a little toasted all year long. However, we spend most of our time indoors, (like um all winter) and have weakened our body's natural ability to deal with the sun. So build it back up, spend more time (ease into it) outdoors and get the Vitamin D that you deserve to prevent 77% of cancers. Even Gardasil doesn't do that (don't get me started on Gardasil)

Lotsa crazy crud going down at the Hannigan house. Don't miss another post,

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Truth Warrior
07-13-2008, 02:20 AM
Somebody here said that there weren't that many police. How did the police know there were going to be so few people there? I guess their intelligence gathering skills are better than ours.
Maybe some of them are RP fans too. ;) :D

Mark
07-13-2008, 07:04 AM
I guess Christians aren't allowed freedom of speech .

Correct. Only the spiritual views, beliefs and opinions of those who do not believe in a God are allowed.

The religion of Atheism's viewpoint is the only acceptable criteria, and all speeches must conform to that belief system.

If your spiritual outlook is that a God exists, keep it to yourself in all communications, especially at rallys where you're giving a speech.
No mention of a "God" is allowed.

If your spiritual outlook is that a God does not exist, feel free to espouse your beliefs, especially at rallys by not including any mention of
a "God", or what would be that type of Being's effects.

And always keep in mind the doublespeak that has made Atheism's belief system the only acceptable viewpoint in schools and Science,
that belief in a God is Religion, while not believing in a God is not Religion.

Remember, not believing in a God is not religious, while believing in a God is religious.

TheSkeptic
07-13-2008, 07:33 AM
The problem with calling speakers one doesn't like 'fringe' or crazy is the above. Folks, average voters and the media will still designate any talk about fascism as radical, passionate anti-war rhetoric as extremist, and any description of the administration as 'bastards' as lunatic, whether or not truthers or theocrats speak at the event. Stop singling out liberty issues you disagree with marginalizing labels, while approving of other speakers who are ALSO saying things most voters don't think are mainstream. It's poisoning the Revolution.

Sounds good, but this is just not true.

There are varying degrees of "radicalism" and what is perceived to be nuttiness.

If I approach someone in the mall, hand them a Ron Paul flier, and say, "We need to abolish the Federal Reserve, they are causing inflation and devaluing the currency," that person will probably think that my statement was a bit out there, but they are at least going to think about what I said, and perceive me as someone who is looking at the issues.

If I approach that same person and hand them a flyer while saying that they should check their mailbox for stickers so they'll know whether or not they'll be shot in their backyard when the government sends in an invasion of foreign troops, they are going to laugh in my face and think I'm a moron.


Ron Paul said yesterday that revolutions start with just 3-5%. He's right, and that's fine. But a successful revolution cannot END with just 3-5%. The framers could've talked about freedom from England all they wanted, but unless they had mobilized everyone else to fight, all it would have been was talk.

Perception of this movement DOES MATTER, and it appears that same have the attitude "well screw America, we'll do it without them."

Newsflash: We did not get involved in this thing to preach to a choir of a few thousand people. We got involved to wake up America as a whole, get them talking about what real liberty is, and how we can get it back.

So the 9/11 truth, the theocracy daydreaming, and the flat out weird stuff like the Sticker Conspiracy - it has no place riding on the coattails of what is supposed to be a movement aimed at restoring the Constitution.

I grew up in a Christian household and know the Bible very well. And the Bible teaches that you do not shove everything down someone's throat at once. You first give them the milk, then the meat when they're able to handle it. 9/11 Truth and Christian theocracy is not milk, and it will turn away people who would otherwise be intrigued by the message.


And in Thomas Woods' defense, the administration is a bunch of war criminals and treasonous bastards, and there are not a whole lot of people in this country anymore who would disagree. That is a good kind of "extremism" - straight talk that people can respect.

TheSkeptic
07-13-2008, 07:50 AM
Correct. Only the spiritual views, beliefs and opinions of those who do not believe in a God are allowed.

Not true. In my original posts I applauded Chuck Baldwin as a great speaker at the event, even though he did mention God, and I know he's a prominent evangelical.

I don't care if someone believes in a god, that's fine. But some of the speakers literally sounded like preachers. This was not to be a religious rally, it was supposed to be a political one.

There is a fine line and some speakers crossed it.


Again - this is a political movement, it has nothing to do with building a memorial to Jesus and the 10 Commandments by the Capitol Building.

LibertyEagle
07-13-2008, 07:54 AM
If I approach someone in the mall, hand them a Ron Paul flier, and say, "We need to abolish the Federal Reserve, they are causing inflation and devaluing the currency," that person will probably think that my statement was a bit out there, but they are at least going to think about what I said, and perceive me as someone who is looking at the issues.

If I approach that same person and hand them a flyer while saying that they should check their mailbox for stickers so they'll know whether or not they'll be shot in their backyard when the government sends in an invasion of foreign troops, they are going to laugh in my face and think I'm a moron.

Ha! Very true, IMO.

Paul Revered
07-13-2008, 07:58 AM
After Ron Paul spoke, Dick Heller came on. After he left the stage, I was told that he is running for D.C. Mayor. I was asked to visit his website. I explained that I'm not a D.C. resident. I was told that this didn't matter; that he needed people to sign a petition. I asked for literature but, they were out of it. I didn't think that I would have trouble finding his website; but I was wrong. His involvement with the SCOTUS case makes trying to find a needle in a haystack easier. Does anyone here know of this website?

TheSkeptic
07-13-2008, 08:12 AM
If his site is brand new or has no one linking to it, the search engines may not have picked it up yet.

sidster
07-13-2008, 08:31 AM
If I approach someone in the mall, hand them a Ron Paul flier, and say, "We need to abolish the Federal Reserve, they are causing inflation and devaluing the currency," that person will probably think that my statement was a bit out there, but they are at least going to think about what I said, and perceive me as someone who is looking at the issues.

If I approach that same person and hand them a flyer while saying that they should check their mailbox for stickers so they'll know whether or not they'll be shot in their backyard when the government sends in an invasion of foreign troops, they are going to laugh in my face and think I'm a moron.

Hey, look at it this way... you'll have the last laugh when he and
his family are being executed in their own backyard! Then you'd
be laughing out loud and saying "Who's the moron now?!" :D

But seriously, you see the difference between the two scenarios you
pose, right? The first one we know a lot about. We know what the Fed
is, when it was formed, how it came to be, what it does, how its "doings"
affect the rest of us, etc.

The latter, on the other hand, we don't know what the heck they are.
Certainly, it's my first time hearing/reading about it in this very thread.
All we have is a mail delivery person saying he hasn't known about
them, I found another forum with another mail carrier with same
claim. I exchanged with a friend who has had a paper route for
many years some years ago and he doesn't know about them. A
few folks in this thread claim to have those stickers on their mailboxes,
though, no pics of them yet.

My googling, turned up TACMARS, which aren't the same, but
provide some interesting reading.

I agree that you don't approach people with the mailbox marker/sticker
story until we know more about them and have a better understanding
of what they really are (or could possibly be). But that's not to
say you ignore it completely. If I see these markings on my neighbor's
house, say, I'm gonna ask him/her if they know what those are for.

Mark
07-13-2008, 08:59 AM
So the 9/11 truth, the theocracy daydreaming, it has no place riding on the coattails of what is supposed to be a movement aimed at restoring the Constitution.


I believe it does indeed have a most important part to play. For one, we happen to need people who believe in God to feel welcome too.

We especially need to bring around believers who support the neo-cons
(who have quite effectively greatly misconstrued who God is to promote their agenda).

e.g. - Enlightening people to understand that Jesus would have no part in killing innocent people to protect His own life would put
an entirely new light on the fact that several innocent women and children were killed by even the first bomb to drop in this latest war.

Q: According to Jesus, how many innocent people is it okay to kill in order to protect your own life?

A: Zero

~~~~~~

And it would also be quite effective in terms of enlightening the masses if certain facts about 9/11
were shown to directly contradict the "official" story.

e.g. - The plane that "crashed" in PA.
Why was the wreckage scattered over 5-8 miles like a plane hit by a missile instead of being concentrated at
the so-called "crash site" like every other plane crash? Why did the hole in the ground look like a missile crater?

Why did the original hole in the Pentagon look like a missile impact?
Where was all of the wreckage from the plane that we were told hit the Pentagon?

As soon as people understand that we were told many lies about 9/11, it'll open up a floodgate of questions
about other actions taken by certain people in positions of power.

9/11 could very well be the straw that breaks the camels back.
I'm not discounting it's potential in moving the populous to action in order to restore Constitutional Rule.

~~~~~~~~

I agree, extreme views/ideas/points can turn a lot of people off, but, presented with finesse, certain simple facts can be quite effective.

constituent
07-13-2008, 09:03 AM
Which Constitution article contains "Creator", if I may ask? :confused:

Where did you get your copy? ;)

zondervan apparently.

TheSkeptic
07-13-2008, 09:07 AM
Christians can certainly feel welcome without the Christian agenda being pushed. However, non-Christians cannot feel welcome when that agenda is given a lot of prominence.

I agree, there are a lot of inconsistencies with the 9/11 story. And I think it would be great if someone like Michael Moore really brought that issue into the mainstream. But that movement does not need to be closely associated with Ron Paul, who has categorically rejected it.

constituent
07-13-2008, 09:09 AM
To the skeptic, I agree 100% with your review. man, the fella from iraq vets against the war made me want to fight harder than ever for Liberty! I would say 3000+ due to the heat, they were milling around, hard to count. to those who didnt come, shame on you. excuses are like a**h*les, and your's stinks.

you're right f* rent, who needs to pay that shit when there's a revolution to be won (lol).

constituent
07-13-2008, 09:10 AM
archive.org (http://web.archive.org/web/20050706024541/http://www.tackamarks.freeservers.com/)

http://web.archive.org/web/20050706024541/http://www.tackamarks.freeservers.com/images/camp_grayling_3_markers_2.jpg

http://web.archive.org/web/20050706024541/http://www.tackamarks.freeservers.com/images/Lake_City_HS.jpg

http://web.archive.org/web/20050706024541/http://www.tackamarks.freeservers.com/images/3_mrks_blue.jpg



Direction markers??
http://web.archive.org/web/20050706024541/http://www.tackamarks.freeservers.com/images/dnrconfercenter.jpg


OK.. i'm getting really curious about these markers. Can someone
post a pic of their marked mailbox?

lol, that's just to make sure the drunk cops don't hit the signs speeding around late at night in their cruisers.

sidster
07-13-2008, 09:18 AM
lol, that's just to make sure the drunk cops don't hit the signs speeding around late at night in their cruisers.

and maybe the mailbox stickers, by extension, are so drunk
mailmen/women don't miss them when delivering the mail
late at night ;)

I still want to see pics of these mailbox stickers :p

Mark
07-13-2008, 09:25 AM
Christians can certainly feel welcome without the Christian agenda being pushed. However, non-Christians cannot feel welcome when that agenda is given a lot of prominence.

Agreed, there needs to be a "balance". "Overboard", more often than not, doesn't work.



I agree, there are a lot of inconsistencies with the 9/11 story. And I think it would be great if someone like Michael Moore really brought that issue into the mainstream. But that movement does not need to be closely associated with Ron Paul, who has categorically rejected it.

I believe Ron said he doesn't believe "the government" did it. No mention of certain people in power,
or that we weren't told the truth, or the whole truth, about some occurrences.

We were told certain things about 9/11 in order to rally the nation to go to war.
If we show those things to be lies, it will undercut the stated reasoning... and completely discredit those who told us.

Mark
07-13-2008, 09:30 AM
Originally Posted by Truth Warrior http://www.ronpaulforums.com/gfx_RedWhiteBlue/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1559978#post1559978)
Which Constitution article contains "Creator", if I may ask? :confused: Where did you get your copy?
zondervan apparently.

Probably thinking about or meant the Declaration of Independence.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, ..."

constituent
07-13-2008, 09:34 AM
Probably thinking about or meant the Declaration of Independence.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, ..."

you can be certain, still funny though.

TruthisTreason
07-13-2008, 09:37 AM
Being a musician and avid music fan, I've been to enough concerts to be able to tell roughly how many people are there. Who ever posted 1000-2000 needs to get their head checked. I didn't try to count the people, but I will estimate the overall crowd (some came and went) to be 5000+. There was not 10,000, for sure. So, somewhere between 5 and 10,000. I was in D.C. for a whole week, was at the march and rally THE WHOLE TIME. :cool:

P.S. Not one speaker tried to "push" religion on anyone.

GunnyFreedom
07-13-2008, 09:48 AM
well, I missed the stuff in the middle that turned you guys off as I and my party went to the national archives to see the Declaration and the Constitution. But I will say that there were WAY more people at the end of the march than there were by the time Dr Paul spoke. I'd have to say maybe 3 TIMES the number of people at 11AM than at 3PM. At 11AM the whole lawn was literally packed with bodies, I estimated near 10,000. But by the time Dr Paul spoke it was closer to 3,500. I can kind of understand actually. The heat was awful. I had 3 liters of Gatorade in a CamelBack and emptied it in 4 hrs and was still dehydrated. That, and now knowing that there were such nutters in the middle that I missed, it suddenly makes sense why so many left.

Found lots of Paul people at the Jefferson Memorial, and I THINK I saw Roxic's vehicle at Turkey Run, but we got back Saturday around midnight and just plain crashed.

TheSkeptic
07-13-2008, 10:02 AM
Mark,


If we show those things to be lies, it will undercut the stated reasoning... and completely discredit those who told us.

It's already been done. Everyone in this country now knows that the stated reasons for the invasion of Iraq were outright lies.

George Bush got re-elected, and we're still there.

What the Bush PR machine has successfully done is somehow shift the public's perception of the reason for the war - now we're to believe that it was to help the Iraqis gain freedom all along.

GunnyFreedom
07-13-2008, 10:03 AM
You showed up after 1pm. The march was over by 11:20.

I was there from 9:30am. We easily had more than double what we had at the rally in MN the Monday before Super Tuesday, and that was well over 4000.

I, as I would imagine many, did not stick around because of the heat. As I walked to the Metro station, I passed many RP supporters away form the main area in the shade. My friend and I left after Griffin's speech.

we left at the same time to go to the national archives and return in time for Dr Paul's speech. The difference in the size of the crowd from 11:30 to 3:30 was astonishing. I'm guestimating that well more than half the crowd left between the march's arrival on the lawn, and before Dr Paul spoke.

And the skeptic claiming only 1500 ? Is either on crack, or has never seen a crowd before.

TruthisTreason
07-13-2008, 10:05 AM
well, I missed the stuff in the middle that turned you guys off as I and my party went to the national archives to see the Declaration and the Constitution. But I will say that there were WAY more people at the end of the march than there were by the time Dr Paul spoke. I'd have to say maybe 3 TIMES the number of people at 11AM than at 3PM. At 11AM the whole lawn was literally packed with bodies, I estimated near 10,000. But by the time Dr Paul spoke it was closer to 3,500. I can kind of understand actually. The heat was awful. I had 3 liters of Gatorade in a CamelBack and emptied it in 4 hrs and was still dehydrated. That, and now knowing that there were such nutters in the middle that I missed, it suddenly makes sense why so many left.

Found lots of Paul people at the Jefferson Memorial, and I THINK I saw Roxic's vehicle at Turkey Run, but we got back Saturday around midnight and just plain crashed.

Several of the people I meet, were telling me they had to leave before Dr. Paul was speaking. Actually, I really got to know about four people at the March ( I talked to a few more) and 3 out of those 4, were leaving before 3. I'm sunburnt! My wife wanted to get in the shade :rolleyes: I told here shade was for pussies, lol.

For those supporters of Ron Paul who didn't make this, you missed the feeling of rejuvenation, that I became overwhelmed with. The March by far outweighed the rally on the lawn. The March, taking it to the streets of D.C. in the name of Liberty with my fellow Patriots, was truly a day I will not soon forget! It's hard to describe in words.:cool:

TheSkeptic
07-13-2008, 10:05 AM
Being a musician and avid music fan, I've been to enough concerts to be able to tell roughly how many people are there. Who ever posted 1000-2000 needs to get their head checked. I didn't try to count the people, but I will estimate the overall crowd (some came and went) to be 5000+. There was not 10,000, for sure. So, somewhere between 5 and 10,000. I was in D.C. for a whole week, was at the march and rally THE WHOLE TIME. :cool:

Lucky bastard. :) I wanted to make the march, I just couldn't get away from my business until 6pm on Friday...already running on very little sleep, and after arriving at my hotel at 1, I just crashed.

It just baffles me that such mass numbers would come for the march and bail on the rally, especially when Ron Paul was set to speak. But I was not there, so I yield to you on that point.

I did get there in time for the first speaker ("Letter To America?")...we'll have to agree to disagree on attendance at the rally. :)


P.S. Not one speaker tried to "push" religion on anyone.


Eh... were we at the same rally?

During Jack McLamb and a couple of others, I thought I was at that Texas compound where they intermarry and teach the kids the Fear of the Lord and Expert Marksmanship.

TheSkeptic
07-13-2008, 10:08 AM
Regardless of turnout, let's not forget that what... 1.2 million people voted for Ron Paul in the primaries?

TruthisTreason
07-13-2008, 10:13 AM
Eh... were we at the same rally?

During Jack McLamb and a couple of others, I thought I was at that Texas compound where they intermarry and teach the kids the Fear of the Lord and Expert Marksmanship.

Hmm, maybe I was mingling a little too much during Jack McLamb, youtube video anyone?

I know I had a problem during the younger guy speaking from North Carolina on immigration. A few aholes were heckling him because they saw him as a racist. The ahole in me came out, as I began scolding him and telling him to give the guy some respect YOU'RE NOT UP THERE FOR A REASON! I wasn't in total agreement with every speaker but I didn't try to take a line or two out of speech and miss the overall message.

SnappleLlama
07-13-2008, 10:25 AM
Side note about the police presence not being very significant...I was standing next to three cops who were pleasantly interacting with some of the people at the rally. I overheard one of them speaking into his radio: "this is a peaceful rally. There's no reason for us to be here..."

Apparently there were undercover CIA agents in the audience, because several of the speakers alluded to this...who knows for sure, though?

TheSkeptic
07-13-2008, 10:26 AM
There is a link to a video somewhere over on Wonkette, in the comments...


The illegal immigration guy was OK, I feel strongly on the issue. But this whole redneck "build a big ass wall" approach isn't going to do it. Ron Paul's approach is much smarter - stop subsidizing it by giving them jobs and birthright citizenship, and it will cease to be a problem.



Apparently there were undercover CIA agents in the audience, because several of the speakers alluded to this...who knows for sure, though?

Just 'cause they said it doesn't mean it's true. :)

The FBI has always kept up with political movements, and I'm sure the government had an eye out, especially since Ron Paul/CFL has been associated with 9/11 truth, militias, etc. But they played this angle a little too heavily I think.

pacelli
07-13-2008, 10:30 AM
I still want to see pics of these mailbox stickers :p

I encourage everyone to check their mailbox for a sticker and vote honestly in this poll: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=146473

I'd like to get to the bottom this-- whether true or false? Do they exist or don't they? Stage 1 is the poll, stage 2 is soliciting pictures.

GunnyFreedom
07-13-2008, 10:38 AM
sorry, no intent to be derogatory

TruthisTreason
07-13-2008, 11:01 AM
There is a link to a video somewhere over on Wonkette, in the comments...


The illegal immigration guy was OK, I feel strongly on the issue. But this whole redneck "build a big ass wall" approach isn't going to do it. Ron Paul's approach is much smarter - stop subsidizing it by giving them jobs and birthright citizenship, and it will cease to be a problem.



100% agree. Walls not only keep people out, but keep people in, too. We may want to leave one day.

rayzer
07-13-2008, 12:54 PM
I am completely guesstimating, but I would say there were about 1,000-1,500 people there. Not good, not bad.

Jim Guest estimated about 6,000 to 8,000 and the DC police estimated about 10,000. The march line took about 30 minutes to file in from beginning to end.

brandon
07-13-2008, 01:31 PM
I just got back-

I agree with the OP. The rally/march was good. most speakers were really good. A couple were to religious which was a huge turn off.

And colored sticker man was a complete lunatic. He also told us several times that there were undercover "cia, fbi, police, and dii agents" at the rally studying us. He said he know this for fact. At one point he even specifically addressed these make believe under cover agents.

There really are alot of people in the movement who are completely insane. I have alot more stories for later. I have to get some sleep now though.

TruthisTreason
07-13-2008, 01:37 PM
There really are alot of people in the movement who are completely insane. I have alot more stories for later. I have to get some sleep now though.

I must have been getting a hot dog or something when this guys was speaking. :( But I did meet a few "insane" people, a few really intelligent people, a few really religious people, ... etc I big mix of all walks of life.

TruthisTreason
07-13-2008, 01:39 PM
Jim Guest estimated about 6,000 to 8,000 and the DC police estimated about 10,000. The march line took about 30 minutes to file in from beginning to end.

Not bad for a few dozen spammers. :D

Drknows
07-13-2008, 01:48 PM
fuck the wonkette glad there was a good turn out.

american.swan
07-13-2008, 02:05 PM
Probably thinking about or meant the Declaration of Independence.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, ..."

Thank you.

"you can be certain, still funny though."

:)

sidster
07-13-2008, 03:13 PM
And colored sticker man was a complete lunatic. He also told us several times that there were undercover "cia, fbi, police, and dii agents" at the rally studying us. He said he know this for fact. At one point he even specifically addressed these make believe under cover agents.

See here "[http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=138493]Feds Seeking a few Good Moles for RNC[/url]" thread. So if that
claim is credible why not this one?

Jeremiah
07-13-2008, 03:36 PM
G. Edward Griffen has a really good series for download on the War on Terror and the 9/11 attack at his website http://freedomforceinternational.org/. He accepts that it was an attack along the lines of the USS Main, the Lusitania, Pearl Harbour, and the Gulf of Tonkin incident; in other words the authorities knew it was going to happen, knew it was going on, and stood aside to let it happen to fit in with their geopolitical agenda to invade Afghanistan and Iraq. Iran is definitely next on the list.

These facts are consistent with the building of the global government that has been going on for at least three hundred years. The Federal Reserve was just the last piece of the central banking network that had been built since the founding of the Bank of England in 1694. The institution of a central bank is a key component of the Communist Manifesto that was published in 1848. Destruction of the moral foundations of the nation and the influence of the church were other objectives in the Manifesto. The revolution in America, to turn her into a collectivist state and prepare her for her role in the global government, took place in the 1930's under FDR.

These, and much much more, are easily demonstrated historical facts and they should be known by any serious revolutionary. How much you communicate to any particular person would depend on how emotionally and cognitively conditioned you perceive them to be. The first step in advancing the liberty revolution must be to change the state of mind of the people. This is the stage the C4L is presently at and there is a long way to go.

inibo
07-13-2008, 03:41 PM
People have pretty much covered most of what I would have said. As to the numbers, we always seem to go through this.


This is the crowd as it gathered before the march. I apologize for the crappy editing job.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/2665308778_f5f6b49cca_o.jpg

This is the crowd as it gathered at the Capitol building. People were still arriving when I took these shots.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3128/2665582528_934a1ca24a_o.jpg

I spent most of the day with llepard (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/member.php?u=239). He estimated about 1,000 to 2,000 at the gathering point. I thought it might have been a bit more than that.

Once we got to the rally site the crowd had grown. At that point I said to him, "This is not 1,500 people."

He looked at me and smiled. "No it's not," he said.

My sense was it was at least the size of Philly. I would have said 5,000.

This guy (http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=2055), who is by no means a Paul supporter, estimated 5,000 to 7,000. (He also took some great pictures.) I'd like to know about that police estimate of 10,000. I thought they stopped making estimates before the Million Man March.

Anyway, it was hot.

Adam Kokesh was a firebrand. He got himself marked down as a dangerous man yesterday.

Overall the speakers were great. Some strayed off topic in my opinion, but my opinion really doesn't mean squat in the grand scheme of things.

As to "too much Christianity," maybe, but as a non-Christian, I most certainly welcome this:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3294/2664142471_9e809293e7.jpg

For those who care to see them, I have about 90 pictures here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/inibo/). I apologize for the quality, but my real camera died and I had to resort to my cell-phone.

As an aside, is it just me, or has the number of supporters of the female persuasion increased lately? There were certainly a lot there yesterday.

liberalnurse
07-13-2008, 04:40 PM
I was there and agree with most on the speakers. IMOP I fell there were at least 5,000+ that marched. Agree that there were probably only 2,000 or so left for Rons' speech. We were on the right side of the lawn under a big, beautiful shady tree all day. We did not venture to the the stage. There were a few hundred of us who took refuge from the sun, no sunburn here. Many with children. Many of those with children left early on before Ron's speech. Overall I think it was very much a success. I loved the vibe..Peace

sidster
07-13-2008, 04:57 PM
This is the crowd as it gathered before the march. I apologize for the crappy editing job.

Nice panoramic pics...


This guy (http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=2055), who is by no means a Paul supporter, estimated 5,000 to 7,000. (He also took some great pictures.) I'd like to know about that police estimate of 10,000. I thought they stopped making estimates before the Million Man March.

Hmm.. who is "that guy"?


Adam Kokesh was a firebrand. He got himself marked down as a dangerous man yesterday.

more info?

libertygrl
07-13-2008, 06:08 PM
Unfortunately, I was unable to attend the march/rally because of a family wedding. However, I was able to hear some of the speeches online. I have to say that some of the posts I've been reading here in response to some of the speakers really disappoints me!

First off, NEVER FORGET that Liberty means having the freedom to speak your mind on issues that some people may not completey agree with. The term extremism seems to get thrown about quite easily around here, when someone simply disagrees with what has just been said. Does anyone recall the same term being used to describe Ron Paul very early on in his campaign? (As well as us for that matter!)

I'll have to listen to the McLamb speech. If he was giving a sermon trying to convert people that's not acceptable, but if he happened to invoke the name of God/Jesus a few times, why does it freak people out so much? We're a nation founded by Christian/Judaeo principles and this man obviously lives by these principles. It's a known historical fact that Jesus did exist. Can't non-believers just accept him as an historical figure promoting peace like a Ghandi or MLK Jr.? These petty jugemental comments about religion, 9-11, etc just divide us and serve no purpose whatsoever.

What I have learned for myself over the past 2 years is that certain subjects that I once considered "extreme" (Partly because of my conditioning from the MSM), really isn't so extreme afterall! I guess that was the frightening part of my discovery. There are things going on people - really bad stuff - that if you took the time to dig deep and research instead of reacting to it from an emotional standpoint, you will uncover the deceptions that have been going on for quite some time now. Is McLamb a kook? I don't know. I'll have to do more research on the "mailbox stickers" before I prejudge him. Yeah, it sounds crazy but I've been reading a lot of crazy things lately that have been confirmed to be true. . There are great resources - particularly the following book that opened my eyes to many things I once considered extremist:

If you've got the stomach, read Crossing The Rubicon:
http://www.amazon.com/Crossing-Rubicon-Decline-American-Empire/dp/0865715408/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215991177&sr=8-1

From Reviewer Robert Steele:
"As the #1 Amazon reviewer for non-fiction about global issues and national security (#66 over-all), as a former spy, founder of the Marine Corps Intelligence Command, and CEO and proponent for Open Source Intelligence (OSINT), I think I have a good foundation for evaluating this book. It is so compelling and so troubling that I was obliged to create an eight-page worksheet to ensure I understood the details.

Bottom line: he (author Mike Ruppart) has NOT provided enough evidence to convict Cheney, but he HAS provided enough evidence to suggest that the 9-11 Commission was very derelict in its duties; that very select elements of the U.S. Government are engaging in a cover-up after facilitating the murder of U.S. citizens; and that a public investigation and trial of Dick Cheney are required...."

I'll leave it at that for those people who believe others should remain silent simply because they feel certain viewpoints are too extreme and will hurt the campaign for Liberty.

Keep in mind that what made the Revolution movement so successful is that we were united in a common cause - liberty - despite our beliefs and differences. I don't always agree with everything someone in the movement might believe or say however, I respect their right to do so.

inibo
07-13-2008, 06:14 PM
Nice panoramic pics...

Thanks




Hmm.. who is "that guy"?

"That guy" is Jonn Lilyea. He has a blog called "This Ain't Hell, But You Can See It From Here." I don't know much about him because I just found his blog today. He appears he would be quite comfortable over at Little Green Footballs.


more info?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaKcAJguBzo
http://kokesh.blogspot.com/

The full text of his speech from yesterday is here: http://kokesh.blogspot.com/2008/07/duty-to-resist.html

It's a barn burner.

New York For Paul
07-13-2008, 07:10 PM
This was put together by volunteers all across the country who were doing this type of event for the first time.

At times it was overwhelming. Lots of details to keep track of.

revolutionman
07-13-2008, 07:30 PM
Some will probably disagree. It just kind of cheapens it when there are 100 people there trying to make money.

I'm one of those people who disagree.

I dare you to rally thousands of libertarian free market loving capitalists to one place and expect at least a few to try and make a buck. Its built into the very nature of our movement.

robert4rp08
07-13-2008, 08:30 PM
Here are my Photos from the Revolution March (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tamburo/sets/72157606150165184/)

dgingerich
07-13-2008, 08:53 PM
I was in Philly for the rally that had 5000, and this was FAR larger than that. I'd say there had to be at least around 10,000. Where people are coming up with 1000 - 2000, I don't know. I'd hate for those people to estimate my taxes! I'd be paying penalties for years.:D I'd say the march stretched close to a mile long. With that in mind, there are 5000 odd feet in a mile. If there were only 2000 people, you would have had to stretch everyone out single file 2.5 feet apart to reach that distance. That's why there had to be at least 10,000. We were stretched out for a mile with a couple small gaps, but people lined up across the width of the street for the most part.

In any case, the rally was great. It was great to hear some different people speak from different view points. Surprisingly, Naomi Wolfe was great. I also really enjoyed Jack McLamb and Michael Scheuer. Of course, Ron Paul was great as well. I was very encouraged by the turnout, and I think having it on Saturday may have made a bigger impact than during the week because there were a lot of tourists who may have had their eyes opened. Sure, Congress would have been there during the week, but does anybody really believe they're listening?! I had several people come up to me and ask about what was going on, and they just happened to be walking by. I even got a couple questions about my shirt on the Metro afterwards. All in all, I think the rally was a huge success. Thanks to everyone who helped organize it, and to all of the volunteers (especially the medics who brought me an orange and a bottle of water when I nearly passed out from heat cramps and exhaustion). Long live the Revolution!

silverhandorder
07-13-2008, 09:10 PM
The rally was great. NY had big representation there. Kept running into people I worked with back here.

Two big issues. First too many speakers. It was a hot day and they had 3 hours before they got out with their big guys. I could have easily cut at least 6. I really enjoyed the beginning and end.

Second some of the more fringe speaking got me mad. I know its a freedom movement but do those people have a head on their shoulders?! Jack McLamb was it that spoke about dots on mail boxes? That guy scared the shit out of me. I will not say he does not have the right to spew that crap, but this was not the venue for that. Also talking about 9/11 like gov't caused it is not politically good move. I bet many people do not support that version and were too nice to boo. Some people who said it were pretty smart speakers and I would completely agree with them on everything else.

9/11 people were present but not many were there. They did not push 9/11 and I have to give them respect for that. Police were great and some were engaging in conversation with people at places.

dgingerich
07-13-2008, 09:26 PM
I enjoyed Jack McLamb's speech. The mailbox stickers sounds a little far fetched, but I wouldn't rule it out. Yes, he did talk about God, but he wasn't trying to convert people. He was simply saying that this nation was founded on Christian principles, and like it or not, that is true. He didn't say you have to be a Christian, but a country does need some kind of moral base. If you don't have a standard, then everything will eventually fall apart, and we're seeing that now. The fact is that morals are important, and there has to be some kind of standard, not just what the people happen to like at the time. If you base your standards on public opinion, eventually the entire society will just fall apart because people will vote for "what feels good" to them instead of what's best for the society. That's why McLamb was talking about Christian morals and ethics. It wasn't meant to be a "national religion," but it was the standard that this country was founded on. It'd be hard to find another set of morals any better. Christian morals are all about love for God and love for your neighbor. If you do everything thinking about loving your neighbor, you'll never go wrong. However, as a Christian myself, I don't think we should ever push our personal choices on someone else. I may not agree with everyone's choices, but if they aren't hurting anyone else, then they should be able to do whatever they want. God gives people free will, and they should be able to choose what they want to do, even if they're harming themselves. If it harms me or somebody else, then that's a different story.

silverhandorder
07-13-2008, 09:34 PM
Oh I don't want to sound like an asshole. He has every right to say what he wants. I will not say what I think about his theory on the stickers. However as I said before he should not have talked about it. I don't want this to divide anyone, so take what I say as constructive criticism.

GigiBowman
07-13-2008, 09:54 PM
It would appear Bob Barr was noticably absent. In the back of my mind, I keep wondering if he isn't a plant to the libertarian party from the Republican Party to distract form Dr. Paul and possibly even Baldwin. (As an aside, I will only vote for Ron Paul or Ron Paul Republicans for other offices, or I will abstain from the vote.) Ever since I saw Barr during his prosecutory role of Bill Clinton, I admired him in some ways, but I wouldn't want him as an enemy...I'd be afraid he wouldn't play fair and use every tactic possible. I don't want that in a President, much less one who seems to have done his own share of flip flopping. I'd prefer religion not be an a topic in a candidacy and that the issue be handled as Ron Paul does. He just fulfills my qualifications as a President...one that during this hard time for our country we desperately need. Nice reporting all....only wish there had been more participants and sorry I couldn't make it.


Bob Barr was at the Freedom Rally in NV this weekend and was signed up to speak today. That was set up long before the March.

muzzled dogg
07-13-2008, 10:03 PM
However, I think CFL made a mistake by allowing a few of the speakers to say some really fringe things... both in the area of 9/11 truth and Christian activism.


i agree with this 110%

i felt so uncomfortable when that old ass former cop was up there preaching

TheSkeptic
07-13-2008, 10:04 PM
Jim Guest estimated about 6,000 to 8,000 and the DC police estimated about 10,000. The march line took about 30 minutes to file in from beginning to end.

Never trust the police. :D

OK, that sounded kind of conspiracy-sticker-of-deathish.

Anyway, I guess 75% of the crowd left immediately after the march. Baffling.

muzzled dogg
07-13-2008, 10:05 PM
I guess 75% of the crowd left immediately after the march. Baffling.

did you check in the shade?

TheSkeptic
07-13-2008, 10:11 PM
In fairness, apparently I was wrong about CFL's role in this. I guess the rally wasn't organized by them after all - at least that is the word from someone who is apparently CFL staff over at their blog.

If so, this is an example of why the grassroots needs solid direction from seasoned, savvy campaign officials. I think that the seeming disconnect between RP's campaign and the ground troops during the campaign was a big problem.

GigiBowman
07-13-2008, 10:21 PM
I spent the weekend in DC. What a wonderful time I had! Unfortunately coming in here has taken me of my high with all the pettiness. It was awesome....lovely company, wonderful speakers, the feeling of comradarie I haven't ever felt.....

why so negative in here? The amount of bitching that goes on in here makes me feel like I'm on the Obama vs McCain Website. Why are people so damned miserable! I thought Ron Paul supporters were more positive and forward moving and that in forming a Revolution and not excluding those who might think differently on some issues was our main goal....
but I come in here day after day and it's blah blah blah...disagreement over this disagreement over that.


Today I took a bus tour of DC with my husband. I didn't expect the emotional reaction I had when I walked into the Jefferson Memorial. It overwhelmed me reading the words inscribed in the marble walls.

Wake up everyone and stop nitpicking at every thing your fellow CFL member says.....

Relish the good and stop poking holes in everything until it all rots. This is it, we're all we have. If and when the shit hits the fan.....lets hope we haven't alienated too many....

When the Ron Paul Campaign first started I attended a Campaigning class given by the then campaign motivator for the campaign, Anita Andrews. She said to us "It's not so much about Ron Paul and if he does not win...it's about the connections we make and the people standing next to us by our side that will make the difference in this Revolution"

That won't happen if everyone alienates everyone else.

The feeling of elation at the March.....it was a beautiful thing.....

don't ruin this high by your petty comments nitpicking every damned thing.

robert4rp08
07-13-2008, 10:23 PM
Just got home to Jersey from the March, GREAT TIME. It was my first march, first time hearing Dr. Paul in person, first time doing anything w/ politics.


I def had a love/hate relationship between the speakers, I'm all about freedom of religion but at the same time religion needs to stay away from gov. I'm very open mind towards anything including that 911 was inside job however, I don't believe it is a inside job and neither does Dr. Paul.

I though the Gentlemen from the veterans against Iraq War was GREAT. I love the guy who write that book(cant remeber the name of it), he was great.

also, on the way home 2nite; i could not figure out why this car was trying to catch up to me in till they where side by side w/ me shoving a Ron Paul sigh out the window ( I guess they notice the giant Ron Paul for president sticker i had on the back windshield of my car)


BTW, RON PAUL granddaughters are HOT

Thomas Woods (http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods-arch.html)

TheSkeptic
07-13-2008, 10:25 PM
"Nitpicking" would be complaining about the color of Jack McLamb's shirt.

But being conscientious, critical, and thoughtful is an entirely different matter.

I am in no way "alienated" from this movement because of what Jack McLamb said - but I guarantee you that some passerby would have been. That's the whole point that you're missing.

My original post, and the consensus of most of those who followed, was that there was both good and bad, with the good outweighing. As I said, I drove 400 miles each way and I'm glad I came.

If this movement is going to grow, and move beyond "wow, we got 11% of the vote", there have to be people willing to offer constructive criticism. I am not better than anyone who organized this event - but I would be wrong to be silent about things that I feel have a negative impact on the goal we ALL share.



P.S. "Highs" don't win elections. :)

New York For Paul
07-13-2008, 11:02 PM
In fairness, apparently I was wrong about CFL's role in this. I guess the rally wasn't organized by them after all - at least that is the word from someone who is apparently CFL staff over at their blog.

If so, this is an example of why the grassroots needs solid direction from seasoned, savvy campaign officials. I think that the seeming disconnect between RP's campaign and the ground troops during the campaign was a big problem.

There were many volunteers who ran this march. The intention was to not have anybody speak about 9/11 being an inside job type of talk.

Being that this was a volunteer effort, there were many problems to be overcome and many challenges to meet such as getting enough money for sound equipment, letting the grassroots know about the event etc.


Considering that the Phili rally had about the same number of people organized by a professional campaign staff with huge budgets at their disposal, the revolution march people did very well.

If they had relied on seasoned savvy campaign professionals the event probably wouldn't have happened.

There are many threads about the competency of the official Ron Paul campaign in the past and there will be more in the future.

TheSkeptic
07-13-2008, 11:10 PM
Then I suppose, if the organizers asked the speakers to refrain from stuff like that, the blame lies on the speakers themselves.

To get some of the names they did - absolutely awesome job.


My point about the campaign giving direction was that someone with experience would have made this is a very serious issue - ie., "do not let anyone put on a tin foil hat while on stage."

I agree that the RP campaign was mismanaged. As much of a debt as we owe Kent Snyder for talking RP into running, I wish he had stepped down and let Dr. Paul hire some big guns. I even think part of the reason that RP got no press was because he didn't have anyone on staff with the connections that a lot of high dollar, high demand campaigners do...maybe it would have made no difference, who knows. But in Washington, everyone owes everyone else a favor. I have a feeling that if they would've spent the money on some serious campaign managers and press relations, things may have been a bit different.


Also not implying that the campaign should "do" the work - just work with the grassroots to oversee it. What's the saying? Zeal without wisdom is like a runaway horse?

HenryKnoxFineBooks
07-14-2008, 05:31 AM
Welcome back to the forums TheSkeptic. How were your four months off from Feb. till July?



Easily 8,000 people at the Capitol Rally. Most were taken refuge in the shade.

SnappleLlama
07-14-2008, 06:22 AM
Anyone else think Ron Paul looked awesomely snazzy in his blue shirt? YAY!!

robert4rp08
07-14-2008, 06:25 AM
Anyone else think Ron Paul looked awesomely snazzy in his blue shirt? YAY!!

The sunglasses were sexay too!

SnappleLlama
07-14-2008, 06:34 AM
The sunglasses were sexay too!

YES!! I know!! Oohh..I have to upload those pictures!! YAY!!

brandon
07-14-2008, 06:58 AM
Considering that the Phili rally had about the same number of people organized by a professional campaign staff with huge budgets at their disposal, the revolution march people did very well.


Actually, the philly rally was completely planned in about a weeks time by the philly meetups without any help from the campaign. The campaign did fund the rally, but the budget was only half of what the revolution march had. :)

SaratogaForRonPaul
07-14-2008, 07:22 AM
I was at both at the April 15th Rally and this weekend's Rally. The April 15th rally had around 2,500 throughout the day, but only filled a small area of the Capitol lawn. This weekend the whole lawn was filed with thousands in the shade. It was easily 6-8 times bigger than the April event. I took a picture after the March of the Capitol from the distance, and it showed the massive humanity of patriotism.

Shii
07-14-2008, 07:50 AM
Something else...there were a lot of hangers on at this event. What I mean by that are vendors, and people passing out literature for their websites and/or products.

I understand the cross promotion, but thought there was a little too much going on. Some will probably disagree. It just kind of cheapens it when there are 100 people there trying to make money.

You know, dude, I enjoyed getting the pamphlets. It was an expression of freedom and let me consider a lot of people's opinions and events on their own merits.

Unfortunately Zendik is a cult (http://angrysummerquietfall.blogspot.com/2008/07/zendik-follow-up-they-are-cult.html). :(

TheSkeptic
07-14-2008, 08:40 AM
Unfortunately Zendik is a cult (http://angrysummerquietfall.blogspot.com/2008/07/zendik-follow-up-they-are-cult.html). :(

And to think I almost got in a van with those guys.... :D



Welcome back to the forums TheSkeptic. How were your four months off from Feb. till July?

Very, very busy. Glad you asked. ;)


Easily 8,000 people at the Capitol Rally. Most were taken refuge in the shade.

My friend, I wish there had been 1,000,000. And if there had only been 10, I would still be glad I went. But as for 8,000 at the rally.... I think the heat got to you.

Charles Wilson
07-14-2008, 08:44 AM
I just got back-

I agree with the OP. The rally/march was good. most speakers were really good. A couple were to religious which was a huge turn off.

And colored sticker man was a complete lunatic. He also told us several times that there were undercover "cia, fbi, police, and dii agents" at the rally studying us. He said he know this for fact. At one point he even specifically addressed these make believe under cover agents.

There really are alot of people in the movement who are completely insane. I have alot more stories for later. I have to get some sleep now though.

I learned years ago that .2% of the population acting unstable/strange can give the impression that we all are nuts.

After seeing the fantastic pictures and videos of the march, I am convinced that 99.999 percent of Ron Paul supporters are the cream of the crop. I hope to attend the Campaign For Liberty rally in MN. "CFW Reporting 4 Duty Sir".

Crash Martinez
07-14-2008, 08:47 AM
As many people in attendance are aware, my brother and I were at the pre-rally march handing out flyers for his congressional campaign. We brought between 1,500 and 2,000 flyers, and we ran out of them within 45 minutes. Many more people showed up after our flyers were exhausted. I am convinced there were approximately 7,000 people at the height of the crowd (namely, during Dr. Paul's awe-inspiring speech).

Peter Gay

TheSkeptic
07-14-2008, 09:04 AM
Anyone else think Ron Paul looked awesomely snazzy in his blue shirt? YAY!!

He looked casually Presidential. He was rockin' those Aviators.

Susan Wolfe
07-20-2008, 10:50 PM
Maybe some of them are RP fans too. ;) :D

Perhaps they were! We hosted Camp Mawavi at the National Park Service-operated Prince William Forest Park. The RANGER came up to me, to sign the papers at check-in...and said..."I just wanna tell you...I've been a Ron Paul supporter for years, I moved here from Texas, and I think it's great that you all are out here doing what you're doing this weekend."

I won't mention his name, in consideration of his position, however he was totally awesome, and I just wanted to give a "shout out" to the Camp Mawavi Ranger.

See you all in St. Paul!

Susan Wolfe

Grimnir Wotansvolk
07-20-2008, 11:56 PM
Correct. Only the spiritual views, beliefs and opinions of those who do not believe in a God are allowed.

The religion of Atheism's viewpoint is the only acceptable criteria, and all speeches must conform to that belief system.

If your spiritual outlook is that a God exists, keep it to yourself in all communications, especially at rallys where you're giving a speech.
No mention of a "God" is allowed.

If your spiritual outlook is that a God does not exist, feel free to espouse your beliefs, especially at rallys by not including any mention of
a "God", or what would be that type of Being's effects.

And always keep in mind the doublespeak that has made Atheism's belief system the only acceptable viewpoint in schools and Science,
that belief in a God is Religion, while not believing in a God is not Religion.

Remember, not believing in a God is not religious, while believing in a God is religious.If you really think this is what the OP's criticism of the speakers boils down to...I'm afraid you just might be retarded

Akus
07-21-2008, 11:28 AM
I missed the march...didn't get in until 1am so I slept in and didn't get to the rally until about 1. However, I was in time for about 10-15 speeches, most notably:

Dr. Paul
Michael Scheuer
Thomas Woods
Naomi Wolfe
Chuck Baldwin
Rep Jim Guest

I am completely guesstimating, but I would say there were about 1,000-1,500 people there. Not good, not bad.

Overall, there were some great speeches and I am glad I made the trip from TN.

However, I think CFL made a mistake by allowing a few of the speakers to say some really fringe things... both in the area of 9/11 truth and Christian activism.

First of all, this movement is about restoring the authority of the Constitution, not making America Christian. A few people took this concept too far. I noticed young people shaking their heads and wincing at ridiculous statements like, "First of all, if you want to be on the jury, God has to put you there." (Marcy Brookes discussing her role as a juror in the acquital of a man charged with tax evasion. Maybe I should've asked her if God put the OJ jurors there, too.)

There were a few speakers who made kooky statements like this, and if the press were so inclined, they could take that kind of stuff and run with it. This is already a movement that struggles with credibility due to its fringe members.

The big thing was the 9/11 truth stuff. Jack McLamb was especially nutty, and told everyone that the government had instituted a program wherein they marked your mailbox with a red, blue, or pink sticker, and when "foreign troops invade", the stickers will tell them who to kill, who to leave alone, and who to take to the concentration camps now being built by Halliburton. I don't put killing American citizens past our current administration, but I can tick off about 10 reasons why this statement is utterly ridiculous. He also blatantly stated that the government blew up the buildings on 9/11, and played the Christianity card VERY hard.

I'm not trying to issue a verdict on 9/11 truth - I've never studied it, and I don't discount it. But rallies like that are NOT the place for radical statements, and I am disappointed that CFL allowed some of the things to be said that they did.

Things like that allow the media, and morons like the Wonkette writers, to continue to marginalize and write off Ron Paul supporters as wackos. They'll completely ignore the 90% that's great and focus on the 10% that's fringe.


(Note: Wonkette DID pick up on McLamb right around the time I made this post. As I said...ignore things like Iraq veterans, NYT bestselling authors, and Congressmen, and focus on this guy. They also let me make some comments, then, after I made a sarcastic one about nuking the Middle East, refused to let any more comments through.)

Skeptic, just like Republicans have Ann Coulter and Democrats may have ultra far left "America is was and forever will be evil" weirdoes, we have those, too. I wouldn't worry about appearing fringe and far out of there, because those who think in simple terms (We good, they bad) will label us as kooks one way or another.

You interpret red/blue/pink stickers on mailboxes as a paranoia, I interpret that as a mistrust a very deep mistrust in our government. Ron Paul movement is difficult to define, but if one could, it's about mistrust for everything Washington bureaucrat puts his hands on.

I think you're worried over nothing.

TheSkeptic
07-21-2008, 11:19 PM
Akus,

I think there are people out there who are completely turned off to the Republican party solely because of idiots like Coulter, Hannity, etc. :)

So we will have to agree to disagree. :)

raiha
07-23-2008, 01:57 AM
Regrets i have about the march/rally

1. I didn't talk to more of you/especially the marshalls who had to keep fielding me away from esoteric areas (with big smiles on their faces knowing i was just a dizzy ole lady who was in heaven being with fellow RP supporters)I loved you marshalls...you had a lovely touch..herding and being firm about boundaries but being human and warm within that! You are good people.
2.I didn't get to after March and pre March events. bugger.
3. I didn't give that moronic woman wandering around with a large technicolour version of an unborn fetus on a placard a piece of my mind! Not ok..lots of children present. Why do people have to push their own barrows at other peoples' marches? :mad:
4. Got sunburnt!
5. Came home. Bad move. I wanna go to Minneapolis!

Things i did right:
1. Talked to Michael Scheuer and rejoiced in his merits to him!
2. Great footage which i will edit one day.
3. Honoured my pledge and came to both march and rally.
4. Did not faint.