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hopeforamerica
07-11-2008, 08:50 PM
I can't even reply to her....


'For what it's worth ... I've read, and then re-read every word in the note below, and believe it's one of the very best letters I've ever received and forwarded.This is the most cogent and powerful essay on the threat of Islamic terrorism I have seen. Dr. Vernon Chong is, without a doubt , the most articulate and convincing writer I have read regarding the War in Iraq If you have any doubts, please open your min d to his essay and give it a fair evaluation. It's also eerily applicable to other current issues, such as Iran 's nuclear program, immigration, NAFTA's impact on American jobs, trade deficits, etc. I had no idea who Dr. Chong is, or the source of these thoughts, so when I received them, I almost deleted them, as well-written as they are. But then I did a Google search on the Doctor and found him to be a retired Air Force surgeon and past commander of Wilford Hall Medical Center in San Antonio .'

If you would like to see who this fine man is, go to this Air Force web site and look him up:
http://www.af.mil/bios/bio.asp?bioID=5000'


Muslim terrorists and the U.S.A. :
A different spin on the war in Iraq : This WAR is REAL

Dr. Vernon Chong, Major General, USAF, Retir ed

To get out of a difficulty, one usually must go through it. Our country is now facing the most serious threat to its existence, as we know it, that we have faced in your lifetime and mine (which includes WWII).

The deadly seriousness is greatly compounded by the fact that there are very few of us who think we can possibly lose this war and even fewer who realize what losing really means.

First, let's examine a few basics:
< /SPAN>
1 When did the threat to us start?

Many will say September 11, 2001. The answer, as far as the United States is concerned, is 1979, 22 years pr ior to Se ptember 2001, with the following attacks on us:
* Iran Embassy Hostages, 1979;
* Beirut , Lebanon Embassy 1983;
* Beirut, Lebanon Marine Barracks 1983;
* Lockerbie , Scotland Pan-Am flight to New York 1988;
* First New York World Trade Center attack 1993;
* Dhahran , Saudi Arabia Khobar Towers Milit ary complex 1996;
* Nairobi , Kenya US Embassy 1998;
* Dares Salaam , Tanzania US Embassy 1998;
* Aden , Yemen USS Cole 2000;
* New York World Trade Center 2001;
* Pentagon 2001.

(Note: during the period from 1981 to 2001 there were 7,581 terrorist attacks worldwide.)

2 Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats, as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessor, President Ford. < BR>
3 Who were the attackers?

In each case, the attacks on the US were carried out by Muslims.< SPAN le="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" sty>

4 What is the Muslim population of the World?

25%.

5 Isn't the Muslim Religion peaceful?

Hopefully, but that is really not material. There is no doubt that the predominately Christian population of Germany was peaceful, but under the dictatorial leadership of Hitler (who was also Christian), that made no difference. You either went along with the administration or you were eliminated. There wer e 5 to 6 million Christians killed by the Nazis for political reasons (including 7,000 Polish priests).

(see http://www.Nazis.testimony.co.uk/7-a.htm
&nb sp;
Thus, almost the same number of Christians were killed by the Nazis as the six million holocaust Jews who w ere killed by them, and we seldom hear of anything other than the Jewish atrocities. Although Hitler kept the world focused on the Jews, he had no hesitancy in killing anyone who got in the way of his extermination of the Jews or of taking over the world - German, Christian, or any others.

Same with the Muslim terrorists. They focus the world on the US , but kill all in the way -- their own people or the Spanish, British, French or anyone else. The point here is that, just like the peaceful Germa ns wer e of no protection to anyone from the Nazis, no matter how many peaceful Muslims there may be, they are no protection for us from the terrorist Muslim leaders and what they are fanatically bent on doing -- by their own pronouncements -- killing all of us 'infidels.' I don't blame the peaceful Muslims. What would you do if the choice was to remain silent or be killed?

6 So who are we at war with?

There is no way we can honestly respond that it is anyone other than the Muslim terrorists. Trying to be politically correct and avoid verbalizing this conclusion can well be fatal. There is no way to win if you don't clearly recognize and articulate who you are fighting.

So with that background, now to the two major questions:
1 Can we lose this war?

2 What does losing really mean?

If we are to win, we must clearly answer these two pivotal questions:

We can definitely lose this war and, as anomalous as it may sound, the major reason we can lose is that so many of us simply do not fathom the answer to the second question - What does losing mean?

It would appear that a great many of us think that losing the war means hanging our heads, bringing the troops home, and going on about our business, like post-Vietnam. T his is as far from the truth as one can get.

What losing really means is:

We would no longe r be the premier country in the world. The attacks will not subside, but, rather, will steadily increase. Remember, they want us dead, not just quiet. If they had just wanted us quiet, they would not have produced an increasing series of attacks against us over the past 18 years. The plan was, clearly, for terrorists to attack us until we were neutered and submissive to them.

We would, of course, have no future support from other nations, for fear of reprisals and for the reason that they would see; we a re impotent and cannot help them..

They will pick off the other non-Muslim nations, one at a ti me. It will be increasingly easier for them. They already hold Spain hostage. It doesn't matter whether it was right or wrong for Spain to withdraw its troops from Iraq . Spain did it because the Muslim terrorists bombed their train and told them to withdraw the troops. Anything else they want Spain to do will be done. Spain is finished.

The next will probably be France . Our one hope with France is that they might see the light and realize that if we don't win, they are finished, too, in that they can't resist the Muslim terrorists without us. However, it may already be too late for France . France is already 20% Muslim and fading fast.
< FONT face=Arial color=black size=2>
Without our support, Great Britain will go, also. Recently, I read that there are more mosques in England than churches.

If we lose the war, our production, income, exports, and way of life will all vanish as we know it. After losing, who would trade or deal with us if they were threatened by th e Musl ims? If we can't stop the Muslim terrorists, how could anyone else?

The radical Muslims fully know what is riding on this war, and therefore are completely committed to winning, at any cost. We'd better know it, too, and be likewise committed to winning at any cost.

Why do I go on at such lengths about the results of losing? Simple. Until we recognize the costs of losing, we cannot unite and really put 100% of our thoughts and efforts i nto winning. And it is going to take that 100% effort to win.

So, how can we lose the war?

Again, the answer is simple. We can lose the war by 'imploding.' That is, defeating ourselves by refusing to recognize the enemy and their purpose and failing to dig in and lend full support to the war effort. If we are united, there is no way that we can lose. If we continue to be divided, there is no way that we can win.

Let me give you a few examples of how we simply don't comprehend the life and death seriousness of this situation :

President Bush selects Norman Mineta as Secretary of Transportation. Although all of the terrorist attacks were committed by Muslim men between 17 and 40 years of age, Secretary Mineta refuses to allow profiling. Does that sound like we are taking this thing seriously? &nbs p;This is war! For the duration, we are going to have to give up some of the civil rights to which we have become accustomed. We had better be prepared to lose some of our civil rights temporarily or we will most certainly lose all of them permanently.

And don't worry that it is a slippery slope. We gave up plenty of civil rights during WWII, and immediately restored them after the victory ... and, in fact, added many more since that time.

Do I blame President Bush or President Clinton before him?

No, I blame us for blithely assuming we can maintain all of our Political Correctness and all o f our civil rights during this conflict and have a clean, lawful, honorable war. None of those words apply to war. Get them out of your head.

Some have gone so far in their criticism of the war and/or the Administration that it almost seems they would literally like to see us lose.
< /FONT>
I think some actually do. I hasten to add that this isn't because they are disloyal. It is because they just don't recognize what losing means. Nevertheless, that conduct gives the impression to the enemy that we are divided and weakening. It concerns our friends and it does great damage to our cause.

Of more recent vintage, the uproar fueled by the politicians and media regarding the treatment of some prisoners of war perhaps exemplifies best what I am saying. We have recently had an issue involving the treatment of a few Muslim prisoners of war, by a small group of our military police.. These are the type prisoners who just a few months ago were throwing their own people off buildings, cutting off their hands, cutting out their tongues, and otherwise murdering their own just for disagreeing with Saddam Hussein.

And, just a few years ago, these same type prisoners chemically killed 400,000 of their own people for the same reason. They are also the same type of enemy fighters who recently were burning Americans and dragging their charred corpses through the streets of Iraq . And, still more recently, the same type of enemy that was and is providing videos to all news sources internationally of the beheading of American prisoners they held.

Compare this with some of our press and politicians, who for sev eral d ays have thought and talked about nothing else but the 'humiliating' of some Muslim prisoners -- not burning them, not dragging their charred corpses through the streets, not beheading them, but 'humiliating' them.

Can they be for real?

The politicians and pundits have even talked of impeachment of the Secretary of Defense. If this doesn't show the complete lack of comprehension and understanding of the seriousness of the enemy we are fighting, the life and death struggle we are in and the disastrous results of losing this war, nothing can.

To bri ng our country to a virtual political standstill over this prisoner issue makes us look like Nero playing his fiddle as Rome burned -- totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Neither we, nor any other country, can survive this internal strife. & again, I say, this does not mean that some of our politicians or media people are disloyal. It simply means that they are absolutely oblivious to the magnitude of the situation we are in and into which the Muslim terrorists have been pushing us for many years.

These people are a serious and dangerous liability to the war effort. We must take note of who they are and get them out of office. Remember, the Muslim terrorists stated goal is to kill all infidels. That translates into ALL non- Muslims -- not just in the United States , but throughout the world. We are the last bastion of defense.

We have been criticized for many years as being 'arrogant.' That charge is valid. We are arrogant i n that w e believe that we are so good, po werful , and smart that we can win the hearts and minds of all those who attack us, and that, with both hands tied behind our back, we can defeat anything bad in the world. We can't!

If we don't recognize this, our nation, as we know it, will not survive, and no other free country in the world will survive if we are defeated.

And, finally, name any Muslim countries throughout the world that allow freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, equal rights for anyone -- let alone everyone, equal status or any status for women, or that have been productive in one single way that contributes to the good of the world.
This has been a long way of saying that we must be united on this war or we will be equated in the history books to the self- inflicted fall of the Roman Empire If, that is, the Muslim leaders will allow history books to be written or read.

If we don't win this war right now, keep a close eye on how the Muslims take over France in the next 5 years or less. They will continue to increase the Muslim population of France a nd con tinue to encroach, little by little, on the established French traditions.

The French will be fighting among themselves over what should or should not be done, which will continue to weaken them and keep them from any united resolve. Doesn't that sound eerily familiar?

Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece.

And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide, that they abhor freedom and will not appl y it t o you or even to themselves, o nce they are in power.

Muslims have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over who the few will be controlling the masses.

What is happening in Iraq is a good example. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct about the 'peaceful Muslims?'

I close on a hopeful note by repeating what I said before: If we are united, there is no way that we can lose . I hope now, after the election, the factions in our country will begin to focus on the critical situation we are in, and will unite to save our country. &n bsp;It is your future we are talk ing about. Do whatever you can to preserve it. I reiterate: Our national election is under way.

After reading the above, we all must do this, not only for ourselves, but for our children, our grandchildren, our country, and our world. Whether Democrat or Republican, conservative or liberal ... and that includes the Politicians and media of our country and the free world.

Please forward this to any you feel may want, or NEED to read it. Our 'leaders' in Congress ought to read it, too. There are those who find fault with our country, but it is obvious to anyone who truly thinks through this, that we must UNITE!

Lastly, I wish to add: at the risk of offending, I sincerely think that anyone who rejects this as just another political rant, or doubts the seriousness of this issue, or just deletes it without sending it on, is part of the problem. Let's quit laughing at and forwarding the jokes and cartoons which denigrate and ridicule our leaders in this war against terror. They are trying to protect the interests and well being of the US and it's citizens. Best we support them.

GOD BLESS AMERICA !!!!!!!!

Kludge
07-11-2008, 08:52 PM
Heeey, my family's the same way. My grandfather's a pastor and blesses Bush before the service every weekend.

hopeforamerica
07-11-2008, 08:53 PM
Heeey, my family's the same way. My grandfather's a pastor and blesses Bush before the service every weekend.

I don't even want to spend time with them anymore. It breaks my heart they are this ignorant.

tomveil
07-11-2008, 08:57 PM
2 Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats, as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessor, President Ford.

I couldn't read past this.

torchbearer
07-11-2008, 08:59 PM
I don't even want to spend time with them anymore. It breaks my heart they are this ignorant.

Maybe not enough of their own children died for the Great King George.

driller80545
07-11-2008, 09:11 PM
I can only believe that there is a huge reservoir of guilt revealed in this mindset.

hopeforamerica
07-11-2008, 09:26 PM
I can only believe that there is a huge reservoir of guilt revealed in this mindset.

LOL, that would hit my Mom between the eyes! She is swimming in guilt.

RideTheDirt
07-11-2008, 09:27 PM
I couldn't read past this.
This; and I know exactly how you feel. My Dad watches FAux news. After a large dosage of propaganda we ALWAYS get into long arguements about world events. Usually I convince him that he has not thought for himself but was told what to believe. Most people don't think for themselves they just go on and on about what someone else's position. Ask them to consider the issue for themselves, and most important: Educate them!

Giving a man a fish sustains them for a day. Teaching a man to fish sustains them until there are no more fish.

PlzPeopleWakeUp
07-11-2008, 09:31 PM
nt

pacelli
07-11-2008, 09:33 PM
It's a fake. Print this out and give it to your mom. It was actually written by a retired attorney to his sons in 2004:

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/soapbox/chong.asp

AJ Antimony
07-11-2008, 09:42 PM
I couldn't read past this.

I stopped at "1979."

I guess they forgot about UN/Isreal in 1948 and the CIA/Iran in 1953.

pacelli
07-11-2008, 09:47 PM
I stopped at "1979."

I guess they forgot about UN/Isreal in 1948 and the CIA/Iran in 1953.

Once again, it was not written by General Chong, the letter was written by a retired lawyer in 2004 as a letter to his sons. It was forwarded through various email chains and someone mis-attributed it to Chong. People later on in the chain edited the first few paragraphs to make it seem like it came from Chong.

Here's the full explanation, just click on the links:

Myth Blaster Verdict: FALSE. This essay is yet another doctored document. It is true that Dr. Vernon Chong, USAF Major General is a real person, but he did not write the essay above. It is based upon a letter written by an attorney that was circulated back in 2004 under the title The World Situation – A Letter to my Sons. [See Snopes]

http://lighthousepatriotjournal.wordpress.com/2006/08/25/myth-blaster-major-general-dr-vernon-chong/

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/soapbox/chong.asp

hopeforamerica
07-11-2008, 09:48 PM
It's a fake. Print this out and give it to your mom. It was actually written by a retired attorney to his sons in 2004:

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/soapbox/chong.asp

Thanks for that !!! The sad fact is that my parents buy into this line of thinking. Doesn't matter who wrote it, they believe it.

hopeforamerica
07-11-2008, 09:56 PM
This; and I know exactly how you feel. My Dad watches FAux news. After a large dosage of propaganda we ALWAYS get into long arguements about world events. Usually I convince him that he has not thought for himself but was told what to believe. Most people don't think for themselves they just go on and on about what someone else's position. Ask them to consider the issue for themselves, and most important: Educate them!

Giving a man a fish sustains them for a day. Teaching a man to fish sustains them until there are no more fish.

My sister and I have both tried to "educate" them. It's a long road, and we haven't made any progress in the last year and a half. Very frustrating. My entire family (outside of my sister), buys the Faux News BS.

lasenorita
07-11-2008, 10:19 PM
It takes a whole lot of truth to counter one little lie.

I found the following well-thought out response to the chain-mail that you might find helpful:
Talking With a Friend Who Hates Muslims (http://www.davidswanson.org/?q=node/1199)

hopeforamerica
07-11-2008, 10:27 PM
It takes a whole lot of truth to counter one little lie.

I found the following well-thought out response to the chain-mail that you might find helpful:
Talking With a Friend Who Hates Muslims (http://www.davidswanson.org/?q=node/1199)

I love this forum! Thank you.

James Madison
07-11-2008, 10:42 PM
Wow.
So they think that Muslims are the enemy?
I have a mosque a couple of blocks away from my house.
Should we get a special weapons and tactical team out there ASAP? Kill them sons-of-bitches? Go to their homes and kill the whole families to eradicate them all?! Time for some ethnic cleansing?

Their thinking is fucking psychotic. Makes me angry. Replace muslim with jew and you have a NAZI.

As far as Iran, we've been the ones meddling in their country for many decades. We've installed leaders and had a bunch of evil shit done by the CIA there. And they still have not directly engaged us. We are the 'provocative' one, not Iran.

The 'terror' attacks they list, I bet half of them involved our intelligence agencies and the other half was some crazy fuck, like someone who thinks a Muslim is their enemy.

Iraq... Why did we invade them again? They did what to our country to justify an invasion? How many civilians has this invasion killed? 1.2+ million. Displaced how many? 4+ million. Wow. What is the goal again? Why are we still there? How do we 'win'? When does it end? Iran & Syria next?? Then world domination?? A New World Order... where everyone is a Christian and everyone is safe! Hallelujah Jesus!

It's too bad they do not realize that they are supporting genocidal evil that seeks world domination.

Have you seen the video of McCain's pastor telling the congregation the purpose of the United States is to destroy Islam?

thrillhouse
07-11-2008, 10:44 PM
I couldn't read past this.

Exactly, apparently Giuliani wasn't the only one who didn't read the 9-11 commission report.

Lovecraftian4Paul
07-11-2008, 11:42 PM
Wow, this is the most perfect summary of the Islamofascist boogeyman I've ever seen.

rockandrollsouls
07-12-2008, 12:04 AM
It'd be nice if the article provided some evidence to support the ludicrous opinion it presents..

tonesforjonesbones
07-12-2008, 12:21 AM
Don' t be mad at your mom. She's just brainwashed like many many Americans who watch cable television. It's not really her fault. My parents voted for Ron Paul...but now they are voting for mccain and i can't talk them out of that at all. They are elderly and don't understand third parties...they feel like most people..it's a wasted vote. Just keep trying a tidbit at a time with your mom and hopefully she'll come around. LOL my mother is SICK of me..I think she tunes me out..because her eyes glaze over. TONES

revolutionman
07-12-2008, 07:24 AM
2 Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats, as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessor, President Ford.
I couldn't read past this.

Thats where i stopped reading too!!

what a load of horse...

I'm glad to know its a fraud.

hopeforamerica
07-12-2008, 07:59 AM
Thats where i stopped reading too!!

what a load of horse...

I'm glad to know its a fraud.

It's not a fraud because someone wrote it and it is being passed on. So many people are thinking this way. Doesn't matter who wrote it, matters that it is making the rounds in the internet and people are buying into that line of thinking. My Mom sent it on to about 20 people.

And for the poster who said not to be mad at my Mom, I can't help it! My sister and I have been sending her things to read and discussing these issues for a year and a half. She'd rather believe in the false media than her own daughters. It's sick.

lasenorita
07-13-2008, 10:41 AM
Just found this Washington Post article that might help enlighten your parents:

Overstating Our Fears (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/11/AR2008071102710.html)
By Glenn L. Carle

The writer was a member of the CIA's Clandestine Service for 23 years
and retired in March 2007 as deputy national intelligence officer for
transnational threats.

The_Orlonater
07-13-2008, 11:15 AM
And I thought my liberal family was bad.


Oh wait, they are. :D:p:(


This is still bad though.

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
07-13-2008, 11:47 AM
Quote:
2 Why were we attacked?

Envy of our position, our success, and our freedoms. The attacks happened during the administrations of Presidents Carter, Reagan, Bush 1, Clinton and Bush 2. We cannot fault either the Republicans or Democrats, as there were no provocations by any of the presidents or their immediate predecessor, President Ford.


I couldn't read past this.


as I.
Al-Qaeda is envy of us? LOL. Osama is(was) richer and freer than any of us could ever hope to be before he took up arms against us.

roho76
07-13-2008, 11:54 AM
Wow.
So they think that Muslims are the enemy?
I have a mosque a couple of blocks away from my house.
Should we get a special weapons and tactical team out there ASAP? Kill them sons-of-bitches? Go to their homes and kill the whole families to eradicate them all?! Time for some ethnic cleansing?

I find this is the best way to convince people of our cause. Just take their views and go crazy with it.

Try praying to George Bush around the dinner table in the presence of Bush supporters and saying things like "Bless Mr. Bush and his missions. Hopefully he will help the American dissenters of his plan to convert Muslims to Christianity and rid the world of other religions so there is only Christianity left. I know deep in my heart that they will come around and want to be saved."

or

"Hell Yeah, Dad. We should kill them all. They're like maggots in our civilization. And they should just be wiped of the face of the earth."

While that was a little over the top and I would never say such things, you get the point. But in turn it makes their views seem awkward to even themselves. And they are a little taken back. And I guarantee that at least for a second they will start to doubt their views. And after a few shots across the bow they may even come around.

hopeforamerica
07-13-2008, 12:03 PM
Just found this Washington Post article that might help enlighten your parents:

Overstating Our Fears (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/11/AR2008071102710.html)
By Glenn L. Carle

The writer was a member of the CIA's Clandestine Service for 23 years
and retired in March 2007 as deputy national intelligence officer for
transnational threats.

Perfect!!! Thanks so much.