Disney's latest and greatest work of propaganda: WALL-E

[Andrew-Austin]

WALL-E: Economic Ignorance and the War on Modernity

Daily Article by Gennady Stolyarov II | Posted on 7/4/2008

The Disney-Pixar film WALL-E has been adoringly received by the majority of the theatergoing public. This adoration is unjustified. The film blatantly conveys environmentalist, anticapitalist, and antitechnological propaganda — and aims it at an audience of children, who still lack the critical faculties and intellectual sophistication to evaluate all relevant aspects of the issues presented.

But I will not focus here on how egregiously unrealistic the film's scenario of humans completely trashing Earth is. A simple look around you will suffice to refute this possibility. Garbage is not piling up around us, and landfills are in fact remarkably effective at storing it safely and even using it to generate useful natural gases.

I will, rather, concentrate on a much more egregious error made by the creators of WALL-E — an error made in ignorance of basic economics and of commonsense insights regarding the nature of human behaviors and the incentives facing individual economic actors.

This error pervades the film's depiction of life aboard the Axiom, a starship made by Buy'n Large (BNL) corporation — a cross between Wal-Mart and the George W. Bush administration — to house the human refugees from Earth for 700 years after the Earth becomes too littered to remain habitable. First, the film makes the Marxian assumption that it would be possible for a single corporation to take advantage of ever-increasing returns to scale and thereby subsume the entire world — and still remain profitable and continually patronized by everyone. But as Ludwig von Mises showed as far back as 1920 in Economic Calculation in the Socialist Commonwealth, without the presence of multiple providers of goods in the economy, the single dominant firm is in the same position as a socialist central planner. In the real world, BNL would have no market price signals to help it discern consumer demand for and the relative scarcity of resources. It would not be able to engage in rational economic calculation and would make decisions arbitrarily. Surely, this state would not please many consumers, and the BNL monopoly would be short lived at most.

The startling aspect of life aboard the Axiom is its total homogeneity. Everyone is morbidly obese; everyone drinks fatty meal-replacement shakes; everyone rides around in automated carts instead of walking; no one engages in direct personal communication; no one exercises; everyone follows the BNL corporation's fashion advice (when the announcements tell the people that "blue is the new red," all Axiom inhabitants switch their suit color from red to blue at the press of a button). Not only does this homogeneity mark one instant in time; it has been present all throughout the Axiom's seven centuries of travel through space. During that time, there has been no technological progress, no cultural innovation, and no noncosmetic changes in the aesthetic, philosophical, and political arrangements aboard the ship. Imagine in 2008 if nothing had changed in human affairs since the year 1308.

The humans in WALL-E are not portrayed as evil; they are polite and well intentioned, but ignorant and torpid. Strangely enough, the ship has an extensive information database about life and conditions on Earth, and nobody bothered to examine this easily accessible information for seven centuries, until the Captain suddenly has a burst of interest. Are we to assume that curiosity and elementary initiative are such rarities that they are exercised only once in 700 years?

WALL-E is egregiously wrong in assuming that technological conveniences such as easily accessible food, transportation, entertainment, and communication render all people lazy, indulgent, and devoid of initiative. Some people, to be sure, respond in this way. In the real world, however, this response tends to be temporary. In the more economically advanced countries, it tends to affect lower-income individuals who have just begun accessing historically luxurious standards of living and have not yet developed cultural habits for managing their newfound wealth and opportunities responsibly. These habits will come with time — as they always have among groups of people that have lived prosperously for generations.

Already in the United States, the big fast-food chains are racing to offer health foods — salads, fruit, and other low-calorie snacks — to keep the patronage of those who would have been satisfied with Big Macs and Whoppers in the past. Meanwhile, a wide variety of health foods and diet foods — some genuinely effective and others of dubious merit — are being consumed more broadly than ever before.

In the meantime, of course, millions of people have never neglected healthful habits, even though they have for decades been surrounded by consumer goods that — in the anticapitalists' eyes — would lead them to ruin. Just as the ready availability of guns does not automatically turn peaceful people into rampaging maniacs, neither does the ready availability of all sorts of foods turn responsible, educated, self-respecting individuals into rage-of-the-moment hedonists.

With some kinds of wants met — such as food, shelter, and transportation — people virtually always tend to develop new wants or to focus on existing lower-priority wants not yet addressed. As Ludwig von Mises showed, people will act so long as they are faced with uncertainty and believe themselves capable of somehow affecting the uncertain future. These conditions will never stop existing — no matter how comfortable and prosperous people become. Thus, humans will always act and will always strive to improve their lives. A wholly static, apathetic, sated, and torpid society is inconceivable in reality.

The economy aboard the Axiom does however seem to be the dream economy of popular "static equilibrium" models, where nothing ever changes — not production, consumption, preferences, or expectations of the future. Yet, as Austrian economics informs us, such conditions have never existed nor can they exist. At best, they are merely useful theoretical constructs — certainly not accurate depictions of any realistic economy.

In the real world, there exist immense changes of preferences, widely dispersed information, tremendous uncertainty about the future, and numerous entrepreneurs who alert themselves to possible opportunities for satisfying people's wants in a better way than they are currently being satisfied. That there is not one entrepreneur aboard the Axiom prior to the Captain's paradigm-shifting discovery of information that was easily accessible to everybody for the last seven centuries is testimony to the filmmakers' ignorance of what makes economic change possible and ubiquitous.

The humans' return to Earth and attempt to "rebuild" their lives is ludicrous from any sound economic perspective. After having had a sustainable automatic food production system aboard the Axiom — which had apparently worked without fail for seven centuries — humans all of a sudden decide to resort to traditional agriculture. The one thing they have machine capital to do for them, they decide to do manually instead. Rather than devoting the precious time bought by the ready availability of food to, say, create art, repair all those broken skyscrapers, or design even better robots, the humans decide to manually dig holes in the ground and grow their food through backbreaking toil that led millions throughout history to die premature deaths. Oh, by the way, the film left that part out. Virtually no one today who romanticizes the "good old days" of traditional agriculture recognizes how nasty, brutish, and short life under such conditions had been for millennia. Once the first industrial factories opened — with their long hours, dangerous equipment, and meager pay — people flocked to them in droves, because the factory conditions (including the sanitation provided and wages paid) were greatly preferable to those of toiling virtually all day on the traditional farm.

The creators of WALL-E, sitting in their comfortable Hollywood studios, did a tremendous disservice to the civilization that made their work and high standards of living possible. They glorified a lifestyle that would likely have killed them — and countless others — had it actually been revived. I for one have seen a semblance of these "good old days," having spent summers as a child with my maternal grandparents in a remote Belarusian village — where little had changed since the 1917 socialist revolution. Those extolling the virtues of traditional farm life never mention the perpetual manual labor, lack of sanitation, lack of health care, and widespread inclinations toward alcoholism. I have spent my life to date moving increasingly further away from that, and I will resist vigorously the efforts of those who seek to drag our entire civilization back into miserable, decrepit premodernity.

WALL-E is an assault on modern civilization, borne of deep economic and historical ignorance. The film shamefully betrays the efforts of countless heroic individuals who have raised humanity out of the muck of barbarism. Its antitechnological, anticapitalist message needs to be exposed and countered by all thinking individuals.


I fucking love mises.org, ripped the movie to shreds.

[Kludge]

Bah, all shows for young people caters to environmentalism and anticapitalism (under the guise of sharing)...

(http://mises.org/story/3037 for the article)

[thehittgirl]

Oh oh. The kid is going to see that tomorrow. :eek:

He doesn't go to the movies much though. It's the older one too(13)...so hopefully...he won't get too brainwashed.

The younger one picked another movie. They don't see too many movies at all.

[Kludge]

I haven't watched a movie in a theater since Stein's "Expelled".... I don't know if I'll ever be able to go to the theater again.

[pdavis]

http://theconverted.wordpress.com/2008/07/05/walle-the-libertarian/


WALL*E, the libertarian
July 5, 2008

Since it came out, the Pixar film WALL*E has generated great kudos. On the second night it was out, I took my entire family - my wife, my 9 year-old daughter, my 7 year-old son and their 2 1/2 year-old brother - to see the film.

It is a wonderful, heart-warming and cute film, with incredible animation and a fairly good story.

Unfortunately, that has not stopped some knee-jerk, anti-environmentalist Randroids and slack-jawed conservative idiots from labeling it as “environmentalist, anticapitalist, and antitechnological propaganda” (sic).

Really?

**Spoiler Alert - do not read any further if you haven’t seen the film**

Lets see, we have an planet ruined by garbage, as the result of what appears to be the monopoly of a single company - Big and Large (BNL) - because they cater to every whim. They seem to be able to dump garbage because they seem to be able to externalize the cost of doing so. Now that could be a metaphor for pure socialism, but it seems more likely to me to be a metaphor for our current state capitalism.

Now, when faced with environmental disaster, what is the answer? why a more technological and nanny state existence on a cruise ship in space. Every aspect of life, from cradle to grave, is taken care of by the State - the cruise ship - and its minions - the service robots. Indeed, the humans become so lazy and distracted by this they do not realize they are always following the carefully controlled and laid out plans of the State to the point that they don’t realize the ship has a pool and that other people are more than just picture on a view screen.

It is not until the people of the ship are awakened and remember their past, fight against the agents of the state - the service robots trying to stop them from going to earth - shut off the “Autopilot” and leave the ship are they truly free.

They leave the control and comfort of the ship (state) and enter a fairly barren, despoiled land. It is not a paradise, but harsh - literally a garbage dump. But they courageously step forward, awkwardly, and start their new lives without the ship and its nanny-state society.

And if you stayed to watch the credits, the back story that unfold in the background animation, you’ll see they better their world not by taking orders from the “Autopilot” but by cooperating and working together to plant food, recover from garbage and to rebuild without the over arching authority.

That certainly seems like a libertarian storyline to me?

I would also add that WALL*E indulges in a few verboten activities that libertarians would love and the MPAA and the RIAA would despise - he watches his pirated version of “Hello Dolly” on his iPod and plays the ripped version of the music on his internal tape deck. He is self reliant, gathering and using spare parts he finds to fix himself and create his home, without relying on “the mother ship” to do it for him, like the bots on the Axiom do.

All that, but some people still call it a liberal propaganda film.

As others have pointed out, if you are so humourless as to be caterwauling about a kids movie like this, without seeing that obviously there are elements of both liberal and conservative politics, than how can anyone take you seriously.

“The fundamental story of the movie is about a culture beholden to a nanny state - in this case, a literal nanny state that coddles them like babies from the cradle to the grave, a world where individual initiative is destroyed and cultural history is entirely alien to the entire human race. Basically, it’s the exact thing that conservatives have been warning us about for years, wrapped up in a movie with cute robots who rebel against it and lead humanity to a hunting-gathering-growing Earth.”

Indeed.

Environmental destruction happens and sometimes, the best laid plans of a statist, technological solution are worse. Only when people are free to face adversity and make free choices, not preprogrammed one, will the world be saved.

That is the message of WALL*E. That is the message to the environmentalists who think tha answer to state capitalist created pollutions and environmental destruction is more state regulation and exemption.

And it has cute robots, which will be used to market thousands of toys for the next two year.

But its anti-capitalist.

Right.

These people really need to get a sense of humour and get over themselves.

[Kludge]

http://theconverted.wordpress.com/2008/07/05/walle-the-libertarian/

The article assumes that people are going to connect a coercive monopoly with the gov't instead of the evils of corporations.

Did the gov't pollute? No, the corporation did. Do you honestly believe people will make the connection that it's probably because the gov't encouraged it? No, it's because the gov't didn't regulate it.

The author cannot truly expect that people will analyze the film to the extent he has.

To the uninitiated, they see

Corporation = Capitalism

Capitalism -> Unregulated Pollution

Capitalism = Corporate Monopolies

Corporate Monopoly = A pretty shitty society

Pretty Shitty Society < Our Society.

Our Society = Corporatism

Corporatism > Capitalism.

[angelatc]

Or maybe it's just a movie.

[newyearsrevolution08]

+1

come on people, am I in an area 51 forum now....

conspiracies are only fun when they make sense.


Or maybe it's just a movie.

[Kludge]

Or maybe it's just a movie.

And maybe books are just for entertainment...

Almost all media aims to shape our ideology whether it be Family Guy, I, Robot or Anthem.

[newyearsrevolution08]

Agreed but it is up to us as to what we teach our children as well as what we take as REAL or BULLSHIT.


And maybe books are just for entertainment...

Almost all media aims to shape our ideology whether it be Family Guy, I, Robot or Anthem.

[Antonius Stone]

Jesus fucking christ are you kidding me?

this is THE problem in America, why there is so much divisiveness--everyone insists on POLITICIZING THE SHIT out of EVERYTHING.

Also, i think it's rather silly that an economist from Mises.org dedicated a great deal of time to picking apart the conventions of this artistic, animated movie as it were some kind of scholarly documentary.

Nigga, please. Its a MOVIE--as in, not realistic. A work of fiction. I seriously doubt there's anyone who walks away from WALL-E thinking "oh yeah, that's me. That's what I'd do if i was on the axiom. sit around all day, get fat and play virtual golf!" no, of course not, but the caricature still makes a good point--and that is that the tendency towards Fat-Fuckism is both very real and negative. Seriously, look around--people drive their cars everywhere, complain about high gas prices, get fat then complain about their high health insurance premiums instead of jogging around the block to the bus stop to save money and get in shape.

And what's more--Fat-Fuckism has nothing to do with technology or capitalism. its a socio-cultural problem. People don't become fat fucks because other people keep selling them shit. They become fat fucks because they keep BUYING shit.
I mean, isn't it fair to criticize consumerism? That's the main thing the that the caricature of the Axiom and Buy N Large is criticizing. Last time I checked, we as Ron Paul Republicans are extremely critical of consumerism because we KNOW that we simply can't afford it anymore. We're borrowing money from China to pay for made-in-China consumer products. We have too much spending and not enough savings...does that sound familiar at all? A Ron Paul campaign message, maybe?

Also, much in the article is dedicated to economic change and entrepreneurship...well, what about the economic advantages of people getting off their fat asses and doing some moderate exercise or (dare i say it!) manual labor? Just because you do something by hand, it doesn't mean its going to kill you or break your back. I mean, I've hand-rolled blunts my whole life and I have yet to get arthritis!

WALL-E was one of the most beautiful movies I've seen in years, easily the best movie of the summer. The folks at pixar managed to make a film about two (essentially silent--they say like four or five words throughout the movie) robot characters and give them more emotional depth than all the characters in all the summer blockbusters combined. If, after watching WALL-E, ALL you get out of it is a "green" ("anti-capitalist, anti-technology") message, then you really weren't watching the movie, you were watching the back story.

[Kludge]

Its a MOVIE--as in, not realistic. A work of fiction.

I found "Atlas Shrugged" to be incredibly entertaining.

[LittleLightShining]

Interesting criticism from Mises. Up until the end. Traditional agriculture is hard work, no doubt about it. But to imply that there is something fundamentally wrong with people who wish to farm and to imply that the life of a farmer is worse by all standards than working in a sweatshop is absurd.

[TheEvilDetector]

Jesus fucking christ are you kidding me?

this is THE problem in America, why there is so much divisiveness--everyone insists on POLITICIZING THE SHIT out of EVERYTHING.

Also, i think it's rather silly that an economist from Mises.org dedicated a great deal of time to picking apart the conventions of this artistic, animated movie as it were some kind of scholarly documentary.

Nigga, please. Its a MOVIE--as in, not realistic. A work of fiction. I seriously doubt there's anyone who walks away from WALL-E thinking "oh yeah, that's me. That's what I'd do if i was on the axiom. sit around all day, get fat and play virtual golf!" no, of course not, but the caricature still makes a good point--and that is that the tendency towards Fat-Fuckism is both very real and negative. Seriously, look around--people drive their cars everywhere, complain about high gas prices, get fat then complain about their high health insurance premiums instead of jogging around the block to the bus stop to save money and get in shape.

And what's more--Fat-Fuckism has nothing to do with technology or capitalism. its a socio-cultural problem. People don't become fat fucks because other people keep selling them shit. They become fat fucks because they keep BUYING shit.
I mean, isn't it fair to criticize consumerism? That's the main thing the that the caricature of the Axiom and Buy N Large is criticizing. Last time I checked, we as Ron Paul Republicans are extremely critical of consumerism because we KNOW that we simply can't afford it anymore. We're borrowing money from China to pay for made-in-China consumer products. We have too much spending and not enough savings...does that sound familiar at all? A Ron Paul campaign message, maybe?

Also, much in the article is dedicated to economic change and entrepreneurship...well, what about the economic advantages of people getting off their fat asses and doing some moderate exercise or (dare i say it!) manual labor? Just because you do something by hand, it doesn't mean its going to kill you or break your back. I mean, I've hand-rolled blunts my whole life and I have yet to get arthritis!

WALL-E was one of the most beautiful movies I've seen in years, easily the best movie of the summer. The folks at pixar managed to make a film about two (essentially silent--they say like four or five words throughout the movie) robot characters and give them more emotional depth than all the characters in all the summer blockbusters combined. If, after watching WALL-E, ALL you get out of it is a "green" ("anti-capitalist, anti-technology") message, then you really weren't watching the movie, you were watching the back story.

100% agreement here

[winston_blade]

Interesting criticism from Mises. Up until the end. Traditional agriculture is hard work, no doubt about it. But to imply that there is something fundamentally wrong with people who wish to farm and to imply that the life of a farmer is worse by all standards than working in a sweatshop is absurd.

A sweatshop is just a job that doesn't have A/C.

Anyway, I saw this movie, and both people I were with, including myself, thought it was blatant propaganda. It's just a movie. That is true, but movies can have affect the uneducated masses (most people). With this film, they are getting them young and teaching them how to think with movies like this. And we wonder why 7 or 8 out of 10 college students are socialists.

Edit: Plus, the movie was boring. How many times do I need to hear "Wall-e" or "Eva"?

[voytechs]

Children don't pay attention to env. things. All it takes is one word from the parent to give a child a different perspective on env. So if the parents don't say anything or agree with such propaganda, they are to blame. For my part, I always tell my children when they hear or see propaganda. Such as when we heard seating and seatbelt instructions on US air flight recently in Spanish. My son knows exactly who runs that particular airline and what my feelings are, including all the passengers around me at the time. US AIR is globalist airlines and don't ever fly it!!!

[Kludge]

Children don't pay attention to env. things. All it takes is one word from the parent to give a child a different perspective on env. So if the parents don't say anything or agree with such propaganda, they are to blame. For my part, I always tell my children when they hear or see propaganda. Such as when we heard seating and seatbelt instructions on US air flight recently in Spanish. My son knows exactly who runs that particular airline and what my feelings are, including all the passengers around me at the time. US AIR is globalist airlines and don't ever fly it!!!


o.O

What's wrong with globalism?

[acptulsa]

Plus, the movie was boring.

More than an afterthought, here. That fact does much to take the teeth out of its propaganda.

[LittleLightShining]

Children don't pay attention to env. things. All it takes is one word from the parent to give a child a different perspective on env. So if the parents don't say anything or agree with such propaganda, they are to blame. For my part, I always tell my children when they hear or see propaganda.


Me, too. And then we only just watch it once. We don't buy the dvd and let them be brainwashed over and over and over again.

[familydog]

What's with all the hyperventilation? This reminds me of those religious people that are upset because Harry Potter is in their kids libraries.

[Kade]

I fucking love mises.org, ripped the movie to shreds.

I'm surprised you morons didn't notice it yourself.

It was a great movie. :D

...and it was pure propaganda.

I love the free market, especially when it comes to expression!

[Kludge]

I'm surprised you morons didn't notice it yourself.

It was a great movie. :D

...and it was pure propaganda.

I love the free market, especially when it comes to expression!


Reptilian!

Nooooooooooes!

[Kade]

Reptilian!

Nooooooooooes!

I support your right to express your hatred of freedom Kludgepacker.

[ARealConservative]

I'm surprised you morons didn't notice it yourself.

It was a great movie. :D

...and it was pure propaganda.

I love the free market, especially when it comes to expression!

it was my least favorite pixar movie to date.

[acptulsa]

What's with all the hyperventilation? This reminds me of those religious people that are upset because Harry Potter is in their kids libraries.

You're not a parent? Kids have so much they have to learn, and they do! To call them sponges to describe the way they soak knowledge up is to give sponges way, way too much credit.

[Kade]

it was my least favorite pixar movie to date.

Meh, truthfully it was kinda boring. I liked the message... it told a truth, without an implied solution. Nobody should hate that.

[micahnelson]

I loved Wall-E. You guys can all shut up.

[Kade]

I loved Wall-E. You guys can all shut up.

I thought it was ironic that we showed up next to you and your wife on the same row on the same day...

Seriously.

[micahnelson]

I thought it was ironic that we showed up next to you and your wife on the same row on the same day...

Seriously.

Me, my lady, Kade, his lady, and a sea of ten year olds- watching Wall-E.

[ARealConservative]

I loved Wall-E. You guys can all shut up.

it wasn't awful, but I held the Pixar company in high regards. My fear is they have become tainted in the recent buy out and will keep getting worse and worse.

[Kade]

it wasn't awful, but I held the Pixar company in high regards. My fear is they have become tainted in the recent buy out and will keep getting worse and worse.

Toy Story was the single greatest propagandized movie of all time.... where does that rank on your list? Pixar did it relatively alone...

[familydog]

You're not a parent? Kids have so much they have to learn, and they do! To call them sponges to describe the way they soak knowledge up is to give sponges way, way too much credit.

I watched Bambi when I was younger. When I turned 12 I went out and shot me my own Bambi. :p

[Dr.3D]

I watched Bambi when I was younger. When I turned 12 I went out and shot me my own Bambi. :p

Good boy! I did the same thing. Always thought it was a shame Thumper had to put up with that little twit anyway.

[LittleLightShining]

I watched Bambi when I was younger. When I turned 12 I went out and shot me my own Bambi. :pBambi was the first movie I remember seeing and it severely traumatized me, as did Dumbo.

[acptulsa]

Bambi was the first movie I remember seeing and it severely traumatized me, as did Dumbo.

Good thing you didn't start with a little animated short entitled Bambi vs. Godzilla!

[Andrew-Austin]

Jesus fucking christ are you kidding me?

this is THE problem in America, why there is so much divisiveness--everyone insists on POLITICIZING THE SHIT out of EVERYTHING.

Also, i think it's rather silly that an economist from Mises.org dedicated a great deal of time to picking apart the conventions of this artistic, animated movie as it were some kind of scholarly documentary.


Really? Because I thought it was fucking hilarious. I never made this into some dramatic issue, you did so calm down nigga.


This only a big deal because you are making it into one. I did not make this into a drama.Nigga, please. Its a MOVIE--as in, not realistic. A work of fiction.

lol, unrealistic fiction influences people all of the time. You know how many 40 year old single women are waiting for their knight and shining armor to come and sweep them off their feet? Probably got that from watching so much Disney crap as a child. lol

Children are easily influenced, its this kind of stuff that just might lead them into believing a Time magazine article preaching the virtues of carbon taxation in their teen years. People are bombarded with info, the majority conscensus can be crafted and the mobocracy can live on.

So what if the article was a bit carried away, so were the premises in the movie.

[Mahkato]

Someone wanna add a portion of the Mises commentary, or at least a reference to it, to the Wikipedia article? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WALL-E

[Kade]

Someone wanna add a portion of the Mises commentary, or at least a reference to it, to the Wikipedia article? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WALL-E

The current commentary section is relatively good... why would I put this trash piece in that article?

[Kade]

It is anti-corporatist:

http://www.buynlarge.com/


Seriously....lmfao.

[micahnelson]

Landfills: No matter how efficient a landfill becomes, it will never be 100% efficient. Natural Resources will eventually be consumed to the point that recycling becomes less effective. Obviously this happening any time in the near future is unlikely, but this is a plot point and we are not told when this movie is set. All we are told is that the Earth has become filled with trash. Obviously not the entire planet- but the formerly habitable regions.


Monopoly: Obviously if consumers had a choice, they would have chosen other outlets for their goods, and BNL would collapse. That didn't happen in the film. Did you notice how every store was BNL? It would take a government and laws to enforce such a monopoly, to restrict where people can live, perhaps to restrict energy prices making living outside an urban area impossible unless you were completely self sufficient. Maybe growing your own food was made illegal. I got the impression that this was a corporate-fascist government, reduced to one universal company merged with a government. They weren't trashing capitalism, they were trashing corporatism.

Homogeneity: Imagine if from 1308 to 2008 all needs were met. Imagine if you were deluged daily with a screen in front of your face. Who knows what we would do. Television has done a great job shaping opinion, I don't think we realize the full effect. Imagine it beamed in front of your face from birth. Obviously the ship was designed to pacify people, because of the long voyage on which they were going. If people are born into a system, and everyone around them believes, and there is no other source of information to contradict the system- it would take a very unique individual to rebel. We have to assume that if the axiom has all these systems to keep order- they would have a way of dealing with the rebellious as well.

Curiosity: If people didn't even know what earth was- how likely is it that they would even know what they should ask about. Life is self contained. We don't have any indication that the information was available to anyone beyond the captain. Remember the classification levels? The system, at the end, attempted to prevent people from returning to earth.


Laziness: This assumes there is a world of opportunity. The ship has a monopoly on entertainment and industry. People can't pursue things beyond what the ship offers because the marketplace is the ship and it controls all resources, production, and manufacturing.

Offering Better Goods: This is due to competition and education. If consumers are not able to become informed, and there is no room for competition, why would the market provide different goods? If everyone lived in a place where all the entertainment, food, and merchandise were controlled by one entity- do you think private individuals would start businesses within the system? What would they sell? What would they exchange as payment? If everything people have comes from one place- then your unit of exchange would have to come from them as well. This is like trying to compete with Disneyworld, in Disneyworld, using Disneydollars. How long do you think that would last?


Educated Consumers: You must have an education system. Did you see schools?

Static Equilibrium: People have no ability to leave, no ability to enterprise, there is no currency, there is no opportunity for investment. One entity controls all products and services. This cant happen on earth, but I believe it is at least possible on a ship as described in the movie.


Farming: First off- they didn't all starve until the first crops came about. The credits show the ship still being parked where it was so presumably this acted as an initial shelter and food source until the crops came in. In order to expand humanity, farming had to be rediscovered. The ship could not produce enough food for an unlimited population. Humanity could choose to be confined to the ship forever, or expand through farming. In the credits they show the robots and man farming together. It seems like humanity was using the resources it had to improve its condition. I don't see how this is regression. They could either live in the bubble forever, or improve their life. They all decided to become entrepreneurs, like the people who left the old world to come to the new.



WALL-E is an assault on modern civilization, borne of deep economic and historical ignorance.

Get Over Yourself.

[Kade]

Landfills: No matter how efficient a landfill becomes, it will never be 100% efficient. Natural Resources will eventually be consumed to the point that recycling becomes less effective. Obviously this happening any time in the near future is unlikely, but this is a plot point and we are not told when this movie is set. All we are told is that the Earth has become filled with trash. Obviously not the entire planet- but the formerly habitable regions.


Monopoly: Obviously if consumers had a choice, they would have chosen other outlets for their goods, and BNL would collapse. That didn't happen in the film. Did you notice how every store was BNL? It would take a government and laws to enforce such a monopoly, to restrict where people can live, perhaps to restrict energy prices making living outside an urban area impossible unless you were completely self sufficient. Maybe growing your own food was made illegal. I got the impression that this was a corporate-fascist government, reduced to one universal company merged with a government. They weren't trashing capitalism, they were trashing corporatism.

Homogeneity: Imagine if from 1308 to 2008 all needs were met. Imagine if you were deluged daily with a screen in front of your face. Who knows what we would do. Television has done a great job shaping opinion, I don't think we realize the full effect. Imagine it beamed in front of your face from birth. Obviously the ship was designed to pacify people, because of the long voyage on which they were going. If people are born into a system, and everyone around them believes, and there is no other source of information to contradict the system- it would take a very unique individual to rebel. We have to assume that if the axiom has all these systems to keep order- they would have a way of dealing with the rebellious as well.

Curiosity: If people didn't even know what earth was- how likely is it that they would even know what they should ask about. Life is self contained. We don't have any indication that the information was available to anyone beyond the captain. Remember the classification levels? The system, at the end, attempted to prevent people from returning to earth.


Laziness: This assumes there is a world of opportunity. The ship has a monopoly on entertainment and industry. People can't pursue things beyond what the ship offers because the marketplace is the ship and it controls all resources, production, and manufacturing.

Offering Better Goods: This is due to competition and education. If consumers are not able to become informed, and there is no room for competition, why would the market provide different goods? If everyone lived in a place where all the entertainment, food, and merchandise were controlled by one entity- do you think private individuals would start businesses within the system? What would they sell? What would they exchange as payment? If everything people have comes from one place- then your unit of exchange would have to come from them as well. This is like trying to compete with Disneyworld, in Disneyworld, using Disneydollars. How long do you think that would last?


Educated Consumers: You must have an education system. Did you see schools?

Static Equilibrium: People have no ability to leave, no ability to enterprise, there is no currency, there is no opportunity for investment. One entity controls all products and services. This cant happen on earth, but I believe it is at least possible on a ship as described in the movie.


Farming: First off- they didn't all starve until the first crops came about. The credits show the ship still being parked where it was so presumably this acted as an initial shelter and food source until the crops came in. In order to expand humanity, farming had to be rediscovered. The ship could not produce enough food for an unlimited population. Humanity could choose to be confined to the ship forever, or expand through farming. In the credits they show the robots and man farming together. It seems like humanity was using the resources it had to improve its condition. I don't see how this is regression. They could either live in the bubble forever, or improve their life. They all decided to become entrepreneurs, like the people who left the old world to come to the new.




Get Over Yourself.


These points were also noted by another Conservative thinker: http://www.amconmag.com/blog/2008/06/30/wall-es-conservative-critics/

[micahnelson]

These points were also noted by another Conservative thinker: http://www.amconmag.com/blog/2008/06/30/wall-es-conservative-critics/

When I heard hannity and limbaugh trashing the film (har har pun intended), I thought it had to be pretty good.

[micahnelson]

It is anti-corporatist:

http://www.buynlarge.com/


Seriously....lmfao.

Read the politics section... I recommend "Say Goodbye to Cash". This movie is a good talking point for us.

[IRO-bot]

Nigga please.

^^ That's funny.

Second, 1984 is a fictional book. *swish* nuttin' but net.

[LittleLightShining]

Read the politics section... I recommend "Say Goodbye to Cash". This movie is a good talking point for us.
Wow. All I can say right now is wow.

[voytechs]

o.O

What's wrong with globalism?

It lacks sovereignty.

[constitutional]

Few of you said you never go to theater anymore? Why? Of course give other reasons than uncomfortable seats, trashy food or noisy people.

[micahnelson]

Few of you said you never go to theater anymore? Why? Of course give other reasons than uncomfortable seats, trashy food or noisy people.

Seats are comfortable, my apartment doesn't have AC so its nice when it is hot out. I like movies, and the only noisy people I heard in Wall-E were laughing children.

I guess... you don't like the sounds of children's laughter? Christmas must suck for you too.

[LittleLightShining]

Few of you said you never go to theater anymore? Why? Of course give other reasons than uncomfortable seats, trashy food or noisy people.
I can't afford it.

[micahnelson]

Wow. All I can say right now is wow.

You see what im saying? BNL is like the monolithic corporate-fascist overlord we have always feared. They aren't made out to be good in this film. I thought we were for capitalism, not corporate control of the government. We free market people get caught defending these corporate giants, and we lose.

BNL couldn't exist without a government alliance, something any free market proponent would oppose.

[Hiki]

It lacks sovereignty.

Fuck that.

[Theocrat]

Hmmm. Now that you mention it, WALL-E does resemble a typical liberal, anti-capitalistic environmentalist--no brain, no heart, beggars eyes, inability to communicate properly, unable to leave footsteps for the next generation (speaking amphibolically), deals with garbage all the time, outdated, and without natural love and affection for human beings.

:D

http://www.popculturebuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/wall-e_poster.jpg

[constitutional]

Seats are comfortable, my apartment doesn't have AC so its nice when it is hot out. I like movies, and the only noisy people I heard in Wall-E were laughing children.

I guess... you don't like the sounds of children's laughter? Christmas must suck for you too.

I like going to theaters and I don't celebrate Christmas.

[micahnelson]

Hmmm. Now that you mention it, WALL-E does resemble a typical liberal, anti-capitalistic environmentalist--no brain, no heart, beggars eyes, inability to communicate properly, unable to leave footsteps for the next generation (speaking amphibolically), deals with garbage all the time, outdated, and without natural love and affection for other humans.

:D


I guess you didn't see the movie then, because thats completely inaccurate based on the film. Listen, if you guys wanna keep hating on a movie that says "Maybe it isn't a good idea to let one corporation rule the world" thats fine with me.

[IRO-bot]

I can't afford it.

I went to the movies last night. I saw Hancock. Good movie.

Anyways, there was a man in front of the line. Drinks and snacks for his family of 5 was $64. That is insane!!!!

[micahnelson]

I went to the movies last night. I saw Hancock. Good movie.

Anyways, there was a man in front of the line. Drinks and snacks for his family of 5 was $64. That is insane!!!!

Smuggle. Its not illegal, its just against policy. Market reaction to stupid prices. One of the theaters in the area has free popcorn and half priced movies on Wednesdays. They do quite well on those nights.

[Theocrat]

I guess you didn't see the movie then, because thats completely inaccurate based on the film. Listen, if you guys wanna keep hating on a movie that says "Maybe it isn't a good idea to let one corporation rule the world" thats fine with me.

You took me too seriously. I was just being facetious. Calm down, my friend. It's just a movie (and an animated one, at that).

[constitutional]

Smuggle. Its not illegal, its just against policy. Market reaction to stupid prices. One of the theaters in the area has free popcorn and half priced movies on Wednesdays. They do quite well on those nights.

I have smuggled in stuff from time to time. Just make sure the cup or whatever you have has napkins wrapped around it and looks like it's something you brought from inside the theater.


Is it wrong or am I just being a smart consumer?

[micahnelson]

I have smuggled in stuff from time to time. Just make sure the cup or whatever you have has napkins wrapped around it and looks like it's something you brought from inside the theater.


Is it wrong or am I just being a smart consumer?

Define wrong. I don't think it is. I just smuggle in things they don't sell there. I tend to not like rasinettes.

[micahnelson]

You took me too seriously. I was just being facetious. Calm down, my friend. It's just a movie (and an animated one, at that).

Ok, but don't you go making fun of Wall-E again.


HE HAS THE HEART OF AN ANGEL. (Eyes swell up)

[Theocrat]

Ok, but don't you go making fun of Wall-E again.


HE HAS THE HEART OF AN ANGEL. (Eyes swell up)

Has he ever occurred to you that your friend WALL-E is just a rip-off of Johnny-5 from the Short Circuit movies?

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/johnny5isalive.jpg

[LittleLightShining]

I went to the movies last night. I saw Hancock. Good movie.

Anyways, there was a man in front of the line. Drinks and snacks for his family of 5 was $64. That is insane!!!!Tell me about it. Much better to rent a movie. More economical and cleaner bathrooms. Not to mention you don't miss anything when a kid has to pee.

[IRO-bot]

Tell me about it. Much better to rent a movie. More economical and cleaner bathrooms. Not to mention you don't miss anything when a kid has to pee.

Blockbuster has a pretty good membership deal. Pays for itself. On the weekdays any new movie rental you get a non-new for free. I earn free movie rentals all the time too.

That's how I discovered an interesting "film" (not a movie) called Eraserhead. Check it out. Weird stuff.

[constitutional]

Ok, but don't you go making fun of Wall-E again.


HE HAS THE HEART OF AN ANGEL. (Eyes swell up)



http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5598/78522592on0.jpg

[ARealConservative]

Toy Story was the single greatest propagandized movie of all time.... where does that rank on your list? Pixar did it relatively alone...

The propaganda isn't the problem.

This move was predictable and somewhat boring to me. I'm not going to gripe about the propaganda because although it was in my face visually, they did not lecture us on it.

It just reeked of a Disney film, not a Pixar film (unlike Toy Story)

[Renegades]

Or maybe it's just a movie.

I agree. The RPF goers consider anything and everything a conspiracy.

I read an interview with the director, he says there is no message like this in the movie. You people are like the same type that spin and misconstrue Ron Paul's words, or the types that interpret lyrics as evil. JUST BECAUSE you read it on Mises does not make it true.

[LittleLightShining]

I agree. The RPF goers consider anything and everything a conspiracy.

I read an interview with the director, he says there is no message like this in the movie. You people are like the same type that spin and misconstrue Ron Paul's words, or the types that interpret lyrics as evil. JUST BECAUSE you read it on Mises does not make it true.after checking out the link to the buynlarge website micah nelson posted I have a hard time believing there's no message. There's always a message.

[Renegades]

after checking out the link to the buynlarge website micah nelson posted I have a hard time believing there's no message. There's always a message.

A lot of movies, shows, albums, etc have messages. What's your point? Should we silence these people making these movies? :rolleyes:

[LittleLightShining]

A lot of movies, shows, albums, etc have messages. What's your point? Should we silence these people making these movies? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:No, not at all. I was responding to your statement that the producer said there was no message.

[micahnelson]

:rolleyes:No, not at all. I was responding to your statement that the producer said there was no message.

And the message is from the "Say goodbye to Cash" article is... some company got entangled with government so deeply that they controlled the money supply- thus seizing the last bit of control of the economy.

People using their own currency were considered criminals. It would be kinda dark if it wasn't pixar.

[Renegades]

And the message is from the "Say goodbye to Cash" article is... some company got entangled with government so deeply that they controlled the money supply- thus seizing the last bit of control of the economy.

People using their own currency were considered criminals. It would be kinda dark if it wasn't pixar.
Too be honest I didn't see the movie. :o

[Andrew-Austin]

Hmmm. Now that you mention it, WALL-E does resemble a typical liberal, anti-capitalistic environmentalist--no brain, no heart, beggars eyes, inability to communicate properly, unable to leave footsteps for the next generation (speaking amphibolically), deals with garbage all the time, outdated, and without natural love and affection for human beings.

:D

http://www.popculturebuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/wall-e_poster.jpg


Haha, good points good points. I mean look at him, hes such a beggar. How can a robot be so useless as to resort to begging.

I want my kid to look up to a real role model like the Terminator, now there is a robot.

[Antonius Stone]

I want my kid to look up to a real role model like the Terminator, now there is a robot.

Yeah! I want my kid to grow up to be a killer! cleaning up after yourself is so Un-American.

[Andrew-Austin]

Yeah! I want my kid to grow up to be a killer! cleaning up after yourself is so Un-American.

I'd so upload a sarcasm gif if photobucket was not blocked for me here.

[Kade]

The propaganda isn't the problem.

This move was predictable and somewhat boring to me. I'm not going to gripe about the propaganda because although it was in my face visually, they did not lecture us on it.

It just reeked of a Disney film, not a Pixar film (unlike Toy Story)

I agree with you here... actually. I love Toy Story... and the message.

[muh_roads]

I liked Wall-E and ignored the environmentalism crap. I viewed it as a consequence of too much consumption and not enough producing. Once people got off their butt their way of life for themselves changed for the better. I liked most of that message.

The tree hugging stuff was just Pixar employees being naive. They're too busy working and being creative at what they do. Through no fault of their own they are subjected to this new era of "green" and Al-Gore'ism when they have free time to read and watch the news. So they just go along with the trend.

[ARealConservative]

I liked Wall-E and ignored the environmentalism crap. I viewed it as a consequence of too much consumption and not enough producing. Once people got off their butt their way of life for themselves changed for the better. I liked most of that message.

The tree hugging stuff was just Pixar employees being naive. They're too busy working and being creative at what they do. Through no fault of their own they are subjected to this new era of "green" and Al-Gore'ism when they have free time to read and watch the news. So they just go along with the trend.

They know who butters their bread. If you want negative reviews, play the other side of this argument.

[Kade]

I liked Wall-E and ignored the environmentalism crap. I viewed it as a consequence of too much consumption and not enough producing. Once people got off their butt their way of life for themselves changed for the better. I liked most of that message.

The tree hugging stuff was just Pixar employees being naive. They're too busy working and being creative at what they do. Through no fault of their own they are subjected to this new era of "green" and Al-Gore'ism when they have free time to read and watch the news. So they just go along with the trend.

Al-Gorism?

You have got to be kidding me...

[..PAUL4PRES..]

Has he ever occurred to you that your friend WALL-E is just a rip-off of Johnny-5 from the Short Circuit movies?

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/johnny5isalive.jpg

Help me Ronda, Help Help me Ronda. Short Circut was better.

[orafi]

Define wrong. I don't think it is. I just smuggle in things they don't sell there. I tend to not like rasinettes.

I've smuggled in McChickens and once a small cooler full of coke cans :)

Btw, the only message I got were that people are getting fatter and lazier. Which is true. Right before this movie released my mall's security guards started riding around on segways. Which is retarded and pathetic.

[micahnelson]

I've smuggled in McChickens and once a small cooler full of coke cans :)

Btw, the only message I got were that people are getting fatter and lazier. Which is true. Right before this movie released my mall's security guards started riding around on segways. Which is retarded and pathetic.

Apparently people being healthy, self sufficient, and living in a clean environment is a liberal, Marxist message. :rolleyes:

[revolutionman]

maybe the movie is propaganda, but it also sounds like a fun premise for a childrens cartoon. Its up to the parents to make sure their children know fact from fiction.

[micahnelson]

Its up to the parents to make sure their children know fact from fiction.

:eek:

[muh_roads]

Al-Gorism?

You have got to be kidding me...

Or McCain'ism. However you want me to put it...

[Kade]

Or McCain'ism. However you want me to put it...

Define it for me.

[bill50]

I haven't seen many kid's movies since being a kid too young to pick out any subliminal messages, but the ones I have seen are all liberal propaganda.

[Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice]

were any of the robots in wall-e Jewish?

[SeanEdwards]

Fat-Fuckism

That's hilarious. Deserves a place with all the other great ism's through the ages.

I gotta make an effort to drop that term in a conversation.

That's the best thing about English. We can come up with these ridiculous, and yet powerful, word mashups with ease. I'd like to see anybody create a French version of "fat-fuckism". They can't do it! They'd have to switch to English to convey the idea.

[Fox McCloud]

That's the best thing about English. We can come up with these ridiculous, and yet powerful, word mashups with ease. I'd like to see anybody create a French version of "fat-fuckism". They can't do it! They'd have to switch to English to convey the idea.

And that is why China is wanting as many English teachers as possible....and it's also likely why English will probably become the World Language (at least for government affairs).

I just wonder though how the German language would be like if that had become our official language back in this country's early days (it almost did, from what I've heard).

[muh_roads]

Define it for me.

The belief that Global Warming (or Climate Change) is 100% man made fact, to argue against it is sacrilege and we must tax to counter it. The agenda to use it as an excuse to further globalism and a one world government. The agenda to create a quick false panic to try and "unite the planet" because that is just something we "have to do".

The power elites sudden embrace of it in the MSM is disturbing. It will be tied altogether with why we should not only keep things like NAFTA going strong, but why we should create more regulated crap under the veil of "free trade" and "we must all take care of each other, so America, give more away of what little wealth you have left".

Bilderbergs, Warburgs, Rothchilds, Rockefellers I'm sure all love this "warming" push.

[Chamdar]

What's with all the hyperventilation? This reminds me of those religious people that are upset because Harry Potter is in their kids libraries.

I concur.

And I think it's a little amusing and contradictory to see WALL-E being attacked for its alleged anti-consumerist stance on this forum when so many people here extol the virtues of living "off-the-grid" and attack corporatism.

[Antonius Stone]

I concur.

And I think it's a little amusing and contradictory to see WALL-E being attacked for its alleged anti-consumerist stance on this forum when so many people here extol the virtues of living "off-the-grid" and attack corporatism.

bingola

[Bruno]

My wife, son, and I loved the movie. We just got back from seeing it. Great love story.
The article from the original post forgot to mention that robots don't fall in love, either. :rolleyes:

[Kade]

The belief that Global Warming (or Climate Change) is 100% man made fact, to argue against it is sacrilege and we must tax to counter it. The agenda to use it as an excuse to further globalism and a one world government. The agenda to create a quick false panic to try and "unite the planet" because that is just something we "have to do".

The power elites sudden embrace of it in the MSM is disturbing. It will be tied altogether with why we should not only keep things like NAFTA going strong, but why we should create more regulated crap under the veil of "free trade" and "we must all take care of each other, so America, give more away of what little wealth you have left".

Bilderbergs, Warburgs, Rothchilds, Rockefellers I'm sure all love this "warming" push.

Don't know anyone like that... you must be referring to these guys (http://www.creationists.org/). The whackos that don't like science.

[LittleLightShining]

And the message is from the "Say goodbye to Cash" article is... some company got entangled with government so deeply that they controlled the money supply- thus seizing the last bit of control of the economy.

People using their own currency were considered criminals. It would be kinda dark if it wasn't pixar.The way they laid out the argument on the website-- I was thinking a lot about this last night. It will happen and they will do it partly under the guise of convincing people that it is the only way to stop certain types of crime. Entrepreneurial black market businessmen will be a thing of the past when there is an electronic tail pinned to each person's expenditures. It's starting now with internet tracking of transactions. Who's going to side with the criminal? Who ever sides with the criminal? Security and safety in exchange for freedom and liberty. And this one's going to be very easy, I imagine.

[LittleLightShining]

Yeah! I want my kid to grow up to be a killer! cleaning up after yourself is so Un-American.This reminds me of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Swcjg4WmoXk). WARNING: SERIOUS PROFANITY

[muh_roads]

Don't know anyone like that... you must be referring to these guys (http://www.creationists.org/). The whackos that don't like science.

There are plenty of scientists on the other side of the aisle saying there is no cause for concern.

Since there are some scientists that say GW is a concern, and there are others that say GW is not...I would have to say the issue is nullified and not that big of a deal.

[micahnelson]

There are plenty of scientists on the other side of the aisle saying there is no cause for concern.

Since there are some scientists that say GW is a concern, and there are others that say GW is not...I would have to say the issue is nullified.

I think all scientists are concerned with George W.

[muh_roads]

;)

[Antonius Stone]

the thing that pisses me off about global warming deniers is when they use the "global warming hoax" as a platform to assault other global-warming associated products like Alternative fuels and conservation as if these things don't have merits that are completely independent of stopping "global warming". Alternative fuels mean no more buying oil from the Middle east. Electric cars means much higher local air quality, lower particle pollution and thus higher health and standards of living. Conservation means people have more money to invest rather than using it for stupid-ass consumer goods.

Whether or not Global Warming exists, these are good things to pursue and invest in.

[Kade]

the thing that pisses me off about global warming deniers is when they use the "global warming hoax" as a platform to assault other global-warming associated products like Alternative fuels and conservation as if these things don't have merits that are completely independent of stopping "global warming". Alternative fuels mean no more buying oil from the Middle east. Electric cars means much higher local air quality, lower particle pollution and thus higher health and standards of living. Conservation means people have more money to invest rather than using it for stupid-ass consumer goods.

Whether or not Global Warming exists, these are good things to pursue and invest in.

Exactly. Good post.

[IRO-bot]

the thing that pisses me off about global warming deniers is when they use the "global warming hoax" as a platform to assault other global-warming associated products like Alternative fuels and conservation as if these things don't have merits that are completely independent of stopping "global warming". Alternative fuels mean no more buying oil from the Middle east. Electric cars means much higher local air quality, lower particle pollution and thus higher health and standards of living. Conservation means people have more money to invest rather than using it for stupid-ass consumer goods.

Whether or not Global Warming exists, these are good things to pursue and invest in.

Aye, but that is not what 90% of the people are against. It is the regulation, taxes, and forcing things through laws that people oppose.

I don't believe global warming is real.

I do believe we should cut our carbon footprints greatly. That is an excellent idea. Pollution sucks.

[Kade]

Aye, but that is not what 90% of the people are against. It is the regulation, taxes, and forcing things through laws that people oppose.

I don't believe global warming is real.

I do believe we should cut our carbon footprints greatly. That is an excellent idea. Pollution sucks.

What would you require to convince you that man made global warming is a reality?

[yongrel]

Wall-E was an awesome movie. Thread over.

http://www.iesb.net/images/stories/jreviews/2750_WALL_E_Preview_Image_1186184869.jpg

[acptulsa]

Cars ftw.

Characters: The memory of all your favorite Matchbox and Hot Wheels cars from years ago.

Message: Save our heritage.

The real protagonist: An honest to God, Jack Kerouac-approved Hudson Hornet.

Win, win, win.

Beats the hell out of a (as Theocrat correctly pointed out) recycled robot...

[micahnelson]

Wall-E was an awesome movie. Thread over.

http://www.iesb.net/images/stories/jreviews/2750_WALL_E_Preview_Image_1186184869.jpg

/agreed

[Mortikhi]

I'm amazed at how many posts are in this thread.

At what point did the Ron Paul Revolution make a stop at the Fucking Retard Station and pick up these passengers?

[IRO-bot]

What would you require to convince you that man made global warming is a reality?

Proof beyond a shadow of a doubt. The debate is still ongoing.

[LittleLightShining]

I'm amazed at how many posts are in this thread.

At what point did the Ron Paul Revolution make a stop at the Fucking Retard Station and pick up these passengers?
Hahaha! Funny.

But seriously, go back and read the thread.

[micahnelson]

I'm amazed at how many posts are in this thread.

At what point did the Ron Paul Revolution make a stop at the Fucking Retard Station and pick up these passengers?

Somebody woke up on the wrong side of the web this morning.

[Kade]

Proof beyond a shadow of a doubt. The debate is still ongoing.

In science, nothing is a proven without a shadow of a doubt...

Here is a list of scientific organizations that believe Global Warming is a reality, and that it is caused by man:

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) 2007
InterAcademy Council
Joint science academies' statement 2008
Joint science academies’ statement 2007
Joint science academies’ statement 2005
Joint science academies’ statement 2001
International Council of Academies of Engineering and Technological Sciences
European Academy of Sciences and Arts
Network of African Science Academies
National Research Council (US)
International Council for Science
European Science Foundation
American Association for the Advancement of Science
Federation of American Scientists
World Meteorological Organization
American Meteorological Society
Royal Meteorological Society (UK)
Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences
International Union for Quaternary Research
American Quaternary Association
Stratigraphy Commission of the Geological Society of London
International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics
International Union of Geological Sciences
European Geosciences Union
Canadian Federation of Earth Sciences
Geological Society of America
American Geophysical Union
American Astronomical Society
American Institute of Physics
American Physical Society
American Chemical Society
Engineers Australia (The Institution of Engineers Australia)
Federal Climate Change Science Program (US)
American Statistical Association

[Hiki]

There are scientists on both sides of the argument, I don't believe that the current Global Warming/Cooling/Climate Change is man made. PERHAPS we have added to it a bit but to point the finger at us is stupid, even if it was man made then the finger is to be pointed at factories and big corporations and not normal consumers.

But the things being driven to stop Global Warming should be done whatever the cause. Like reducing pollution, discovering new environment-friendly technologies (like the Air-Car), recycling and reducing the trash-mountains (and seas) piling up etc. etc.
But it's wrong to scare the shit out of everybody by saying that the end of the world is coming and then to increase government authority and drive crazy regulations under the shadow of GW.

[IRO-bot]

In science, nothing is a proven without a shadow of a doubt...

Here is a list of scientific organizations that believe Global Warming is a reality, and that it is caused by man:

Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) 2007
InterAcademy Council
Joint science academies' statement 2008
Joint science academies’ statement 2007
Joint science academies’ statement 2005
Joint science academies’ statement 2001
International Council of Academies of Engineering and Technological Sciences
European Academy of Sciences and Arts
Network of African Science Academies
National Research Council (US)
International Council for Science
European Science Foundation
American Association for the Advancement of Science
Federation of American Scientists
World Meteorological Organization
American Meteorological Society
Royal Meteorological Society (UK)
Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences
International Union for Quaternary Research
American Quaternary Association
Stratigraphy Commission of the Geological Society of London
International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics
International Union of Geological Sciences
European Geosciences Union
Canadian Federation of Earth Sciences
Geological Society of America
American Geophysical Union
American Astronomical Society
American Institute of Physics
American Physical Society
American Chemical Society
Engineers Australia (The Institution of Engineers Australia)
Federal Climate Change Science Program (US)
American Statistical Association

This list looks similiar to the ones in the 70's that said there is a Global Cooling.

[Hiki]

Kade, I suggest you check this out. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295&ei=PC92SNmDG4WSiwLK8_CSCw&hl=en)

Everyone should check that out, in fact.

edit: Sorry yongrel, i meant Kade :p

[yongrel]

Yongrel, I suggest you check this out. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295&ei=PC92SNmDG4WSiwLK8_CSCw&hl=en)

http://www.toystoreinc.com/images/wall%20e%20rubik.jpg

[Kade]

This list looks similiar to the ones in the 70's that said there is a Global Cooling.

Global cooling is also real. It is a result of pollution in the upper atmosphere. It reflects sunlight and actually corrupts some of the data that was previously hidden in regards to global warming. The both are mutually damaging effects to the globe... and no I am not joking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming


The problem is that both effects are scientifically proven and counteract each other... I'm not asking you to believe me, I'm asking that you do the research.

And Hiki, there are very, very few scientists who disagree, and those scientists seem to want to avoid the peer review process.

Please don't fall into the propaganda... the scientists are in consensus... the problem is that they are insulted and mocked in order to pretend that we desire some sort of "socialist" or "global" solution... which is not the case.

Scientists are just here for the facts. The facts are clear.

[yongrel]

http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/features/wall_e/wall-e_3.jpg

[familydog]

If you oppose global warming you are a tool of the oil companies and are a traitor to humanity. The death penalty sounds quite appropriate.

[yongrel]

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/spi/library/walle.jpg

[Hiki]

If you oppose global warming you are a tool of the oil companies and are a traitor to humanity.

OR then just a skeptic, I detest the oil companies and I dont think that global warming is man made. So there you go.

[LittleLightShining]

Scientists are just here for the facts. The facts are clear.How generous of you! So there aren't any politicized scientists? No scientists are persuaded by an agenda outside of the facts? Or only those who don't agree with you?

eta yongrel is spamming

[Andrew-Austin]

omg this thread is still alive, what a gem I have contributed to this forum. Stop spamming pics of that bot though.


If you oppose global warming you are a tool of the oil companies and are a traitor to humanity. The death penalty sounds quite appropriate.

radicalsforthecarbontax.com/forums (www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU)

Go now and join your brothers.


How generous of you! So there aren't any politicized scientists? No scientists are persuaded by an agenda outside of the facts? Or only those who don't agree with you?

No scientific organizations who rely upon the political establisment, who feed from the elite who fund their research? Intellectuals have quite the history of working alongside statist politicians for their benefit.

We might as well conform to the mass consensus when it comes to economics as well, and believe the federal reserve is here to genuinly help us. There are certainly more Keynsian/Monetarist economists then Austrian, therefor they must be right huh?

[LittleLightShining]

I guess I don't need to watch the movie now since I've got the plot line and the screen shots.

[yongrel]

I guess I don't need to watch the movie now since I've got the plot line and the screen shots.

You totally should watch it. It's fantastic. "Cute beyond all reason" is the term that springs to mind.

[acptulsa]

You totally should watch it. It's fantastic. "Cute beyond all reason" is the term that springs to mind.

How much of a markup does your local theater slap on insulin?

We're backwards here--they still let parents bring their own.

[Kade]

How generous of you! So there aren't any politicized scientists? No scientists are persuaded by an agenda outside of the facts? Or only those who don't agree with you?

eta yongrel is spamming

The only politicized scientists weighing in on Global Warming are the scientists working for the Bush Administration and special interests, lobbyist, and corporations.

That is indeed generous. Nearly every single scientist weighing in on "lack of proof" is part of one of those things.

What agenda exactly do you think a neutral scientific body would have exactly?

[V-rod]

When I first read the Communist Manifesto, I found it incredibly humorous.

[lucius]

...Scientists are just here for the facts. The facts are clear.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511FCJ4W5XL._SS500_.jpg

"Patterns Give Away Deceit", an amazon reviewer nailed it.

Trust Us We're Experts: How Industry Manipulates Science and Gambles with Your Future (Paperback)
by Sheldon Rampton (Author), John Stauber (Author)
(ISBN: 1585421391)

[Kade]

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511FCJ4W5XL._SS500_.jpg

"Patterns Give Away Deceit", an amazon reviewer nailed it.

Trust Us We're Experts: How Industry Manipulates Science and Gambles with Your Future (Paperback)
by Sheldon Rampton (Author), John Stauber (Author)
(ISBN: 1585421391)

Stauber is an environmental activist, he agrees with everything I've said in this thread!!!!

The sheer irony of you posting that here!

Part of the example of corrupt science is the Global Warming Deniers of this administration...

[V-rod]

I'm glad environmental activists can distort and exaggerate the true science behind the findings.

[Kade]

I'm glad environmental activists can distort and exaggerate the true science behind the findings.

You can just admit that you don't know what you are talking about, or you can just choose not to respond. Either way, both options are more honorable and less embarrassing then you commenting about "findings" that you have most certainly not read.

[lucius]

Stauber is an environmental activist, he agrees with everything I've said in this thread!!!!

The sheer irony of you posting that here!

Part of the example of corrupt science is the Global Warming Deniers of this administration...

Poor deflection Kade. The lion's share of research is funded by grants from large corporations, non-profit foundations & government. The research that promotes 'policy agenda' is funded. There is much more too it than your 'ideal':


...Scientists are just here for the facts. The facts are clear.

[yongrel]

Proof of global warming:
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3907/globalwarmingeffects25vk2.jpg

[Kade]

Poor deflection Kade. The lion's share of research is funded by grants from large corporations, non-profit foundations & government. The research that promotes 'policy agenda' is funded. There is much more too it than your 'ideal':

The only agenda supporting by corporations and GOP interests is to quell the growing body of evidence of man made global warming. I don't know what you know about scientists, but real ones are generally not bought off... I admit that might be the sort of fallacy I would harp upon.. but there is a legitimate "method" to science that is contradicted by fact twisting...

I am mostly referring to scholarly bodies, including the National Academy of Sciences, which is relatively untouched by agendas other than a strong pro-science approach to reality.

[IRO-bot]

The only agenda supporting by corporations and GOP interests is to quell the growing body of evidence of man made global warming. I don't know what you know about scientists, but real ones are generally not bought off... I admit that might be the sort of fallacy I would harp upon.. but there is a legitimate "method" to science that is contradicted by fact twisting...

I am mostly referring to scholarly bodies, including the National Academy of Sciences, which is relatively untouched by agendas other than a strong pro-science approach to reality.

Where do they get thier money? Grants? Donations? How much and from whom?

But I know. It's conspiracies. They don't exist. Everyone is pure of intentions.

[Kade]

Where do they get thier money? Grants? Donations? How much and from whom?

But I know. It's conspiracies. They don't exist. Everyone is pure of intentions.

I'm not weighing in on conspiracies.

Scientists are funded by non-profit organizations, donations, self, tuition, and foundations.

[IRO-bot]

I'm not weighing in on conspiracies.

Scientists are funded by non-profit organizations, donations, self, tuition, and foundations.

Oh you forgot Government.

[Kade]

Oh you forgot Government.

I thought I said tax payer...I guess not.

Yes, and the tax payer.

[LittleLightShining]

Poor deflection Kade. The lion's share of research is funded by grants from large corporations, non-profit foundations & government. The research that promotes 'policy agenda' is funded. There is much more too it than your 'ideal':
I'm gonna stand over here with lucius. I'm not going to go searching around for examples as I don't have time and I don't really care to. Scientists are human beings and are just as prone to interpret findings based on their ideologies as anyone else. To assume that only global-warming denying scientists are willing to do so exposes your naivety.

I suspect much global warming research is funded by foundations or corporate entities with nuclear energy ties. This is conjecture, I have no idea, really, but the industry stands to benefit quite handsomely from the global warming theory. Al Gore is no scientist.

[dannno]

The article assumes that people are going to connect a coercive monopoly with the gov't instead of the evils of corporations.

Well people will get it eventually. I haven't seen the film, but I think mises missed the point.



Did the gov't pollute? No, the corporation did.

Ya, because the government allowed them because the government wasn't doing a good job protecting property rights.




Do you honestly believe people will make the connection that it's probably because the gov't encouraged it? No, it's because the gov't didn't regulate it.


Well it looks like they at least layed the groundwork.




The author cannot truly expect that people will analyze the film to the extent he has.

To the uninitiated, they see

Corporation = Capitalism

Capitalism -> Unregulated Pollution

Capitalism = Corporate Monopolies

Corporate Monopoly = A pretty shitty society

Pretty Shitty Society < Our Society.

Our Society = Corporatism

Corporatism > Capitalism.

Again, they laid the groundwork as the second article pointed out. If humanity is too stupid to see it, should we hide the truth from them?

[dannno]

This is a great straightforward thorough film about pollution, garbage and toxins.


http://www.storyofstuff.com/

[Indy4Chng]

omg this thread is still alive, what a gem I have contributed to this forum. Stop spamming pics of that bot though.



radicalsforthecarbontax.com/forums (www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU)

Go now and join your brothers.



No scientific organizations who rely upon the political establisment, who feed from the elite who fund their research? Intellectuals have quite the history of working alongside statist politicians for their benefit.

We might as well conform to the mass consensus when it comes to economics as well, and believe the federal reserve is here to genuinly help us. There are certainly more Keynsian/Monetarist economists then Austrian, therefor they must be right huh?


Great post!!

[Indy4Chng]

Here's the best article I've ever read on global warming. If they (scientist), the so called experts and proof that global warming exists, can't even acurately predict the next season how can they acurately predict the next 100 years?

www.americanthinker.com/2008/04/can_scientists_really_predict_1.html

[LittleLightShining]

I'm not weighing in on conspiracies.

Scientists are funded by non-profit organizations, donations, self, tuition, and foundations.Well, I was thinking more about what I said earlier and I decided I could spend a little time looking around and lo and behold!

A smoking gun! (http://www.counterpunch.org/nukes.html)

It's a long article so I'll share some of the juicy stuff:


During the run up to Kyoto, the nuclear industry secured another startling windfall, this time a promise of nearly $400 million in research and development subsidies. The key man here is one of Al Gore's intellectual Svengalis, John P. Holdren. While a professor at Berkeley, Holdren portrayed himself as a mighty foe of nuclear weapons. His popularity among Berkeley students soared after he gave ecological backing to Carl Sagan's scary scenarios about nuclear winter. Now Holdren is ensconced at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, where he presides as the John and Teresa Heinz professor of environmental policy. It will be recalled that Teresa Heinz is the $2 billion widow of the late Sen. John Heinz, intimate friend of Clinton's former global warming negotiator Tim Wirth, current wife of Sen. John Kerry, head of a $200 million foundation which gives money for "practical solutions to global environmental problems" and long-time board member of the Environmental Defense Fund.

Holdren was tapped by Gore and Clinton's science advisor Jack Gibbons to head a task force on energy and climate policy as part of the Presidential Commission on Science and Technology. Holdren's panel was well stocked with allies of the nuclear lobby, headlined by Bechtel's Lawrence Papay and William Fulkerson, former associate director of the Oak Ridge National Lab and now a senior fellow at the Gore-endowed Joint Institute for Energy and Environment at the University of Tennessee. Masquerading as an academic was Charles Vest, president of MIT and a driving force behind the American Nuclear Society's Eagle Alliance.Gotta love those foundations!


Environmentalists were given two slots. One went to Daniel Lashof, a scientist at the Natural Resources Defense Council. The other was reserved for one of Lashof's biggest funders, Hal Harvey, executive director of the Energy Foundation. Last year both Lashof and Harvey supported the bail out of the California nuclear industry.

With this roster of advisers, it's not surprising that Holdren's report largely parrots the line advanced by the Nuclear Energy Institute, calling for increased research and development subsidies for fusion and fission, export of US nuclear technology and the creation of a new Nuclear Energy Research Initiative to underwrite "new reactor designs with higher-efficiency, lower-cost and improved safety to compete in the global market."

No impropriety here!


"Nuclear energy currently generates about 17 percent of the world's electricity," Holdren writes. "If this electricity were generated instead by coal, world carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuel consumption would be almost 10 percent larger than they currently are. Given the desirability of stabilizing and reducing greenhouse gas emissions, it is important to establish fission energy as a widely viable and expandable option. World leadership in nuclear energy technologies and the underlying science is also vital to the United States from the perspective of national security, international influence and global stability."

Incredibly, Holdren and his gang also recommend spending $280 million on fusion research, a proven waste of money in terms of energy production. Under even the most optimistic scenarios, fusion reactors will be able to generate electricity for about 50 cents per kilowatt hour, ten times more than the cost of natural gas turbines. But a boost in fusion research can go a long way toward solving a problem that has vexed the nuclear industry and the defense lobby: How to keep testing nuclear weapons technology under the restrictions of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (one of the few bright spots on the Clinton record.) The answer: funnel fusion energy research money to places like the Lawrence Livermore Labs and its mammoth National Ignition Facility.What were those people called again? You know, the ones who work in and run labs? Oh yeah! Scientists!

It's a fascinating article. I highly recommend it.

[familydog]

Scientists are just here for the facts. The facts are clear.

These scientists can't even accurately tell me if it's going to rain tomarrow. ;)

[ItsTime]

Or maybe it's just a movie.

ya diseny never had propaganda films
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DfIKQkldXWo

[lucius]

ya diseny never had propaganda films
http://youtube.com/watch?v=DfIKQkldXWo

"So what are you going to due? Spend for the Axes or save for your taxes?"

Classic, thanks for the eye-opener!

[Danke]

"So what are you going to due? Spend for the Axes or save for your taxes?"

Classic, thanks for the eye-opener!

Note that it was during WWII that they started "withholdings" Interesting, and revealing, Congressional record on the subject of that time.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dfwZNomxsNg

[electronicmaji]

Wow...this thread shows how desperate you guys are....


"Man you got to fight the MACHINE man...its the conformists man fucking us all man. No fuck man you can't be a radical liberal socialist man, thats conformist man! You gotta be a Anarcho-Capitalist like all us man; be anti conformist man be just like us were all the same; anti-conformists mannnnnnnnnn."


Its a movie; a extreme exageration; that doesnt even make sense in the science fiction sense; and isn't even supposed to so get over yourselves.

[yongrel]

Wow...this thread shows how desperate you guys are....


"Man you got to fight the MACHINE man...its the conformists man fucking us all man. No fuck man you can't be a radical liberal socialist man, thats conformist man! You gotta be a Anarcho-Capitalist like all us man; be anti conformist man be just like us were all the same; anti-conformists mannnnnnnnnn."


Its a movie; a extreme exageration; that doesnt even make sense in the science fiction sense; and isn't even supposed to so get over yourselves.

Go back to sucking on Obama's teat of social programs.

[Danke]

"Man you got to fight the MACHINE man...its the conformists man fucking us all man. No fuck man you can't be a radical liberal socialist man, thats conformist man! You gotta be a Anarcho-Capitalist like all us man; be anti conformist man be just like us were all the same; anti-conformists mannnnnnnnnn."



Whose quote is that?


I thought you said you were leaving this forum for good. Can't keep your word?

[electronicmaji]

Whose quote is that?


I thought you said you were leaving this forum for good. Can't keep your word?

If Ron Paul can change his mind so can I.

[Danke]

If Ron Paul can change his mind so can I.

Oh, I see, it is all about Ron. Are you gay?

[electronicmaji]

Oh, I see, it is all about Ron. Are you gay?

Got a problems with homosexuals bud? You must have some sort of homophobia if homosexuality is the first thing you come up with.

[Danke]

Got a problems with homosexuals bud? You must have some sort of homophobia if homosexuality is the first thing you come up with.

Yes I do. But I'm not afraid of them. No phobia, bud.

[electronicmaji]

Yes I do. But I'm not afraid of them. No phobia, bud.

Your response speaks for itself; if you have any problems with homosexuals you lose all my respect.

[yongrel]

Your response speaks for itself; if you have any problems with homosexuals you lose all my respect.

I thought you decided to leave. Did you get bored with your various online dating websites and decide that you wanted to come back here to stir shit?

Go back to www.lonelybasementsingles.com

[electronicmaji]

I thought you decided to leave. Did you get bored with your various online dating websites and decide that you wanted to come back here to stir shit?

Go back to www.lonelybasementsingles.com

Oh wow, you really hurt my feelings...im deffinetly gonna leave now. :rolleyes:

Grow the fuck up.

[Danke]

Your response speaks for itself; if you have any problems with homosexuals you lose all my respect.

Maybe "gay" was the wrong word. How do you describe the attraction of a 19 year old boy to a 72 year old man's actions to justify his own? Cult of personality? That doesn't seem to fit well either in this case.

[yongrel]

Oh wow, you really hurt my feelings...im deffinetly gonna leave now. :rolleyes:

Grow the fuck up.

As Peter Pan put it, "I'll never grow up."

You have yet to demonstrate that you can be an even marginally valuable poster here, and as such I have no respect for you or your opinions.

But what's that?! I hear something off in the distance... it's Obama calling you for supper. I suppose it's about time for you to go suckle off of his "change" and "hope" now.

Buh-bye.

[electronicmaji]

As Peter Pan put it, "I'll never grow up."

You have yet to demonstrate that you can be an even marginally valuable poster here, and as such I have no respect for you or your opinions.

But what's that?! I hear something off in the distance... it's Obama calling you for supper. I suppose it's about time for you to go suckle off of his "change" and "hope" now.

Buh-bye.

Strangely enought I'd say the exact same thing about you....

[Andrew-Austin]

Wow...this thread shows how desperate you guys are....


"Man you got to fight the MACHINE man...its the conformists man fucking us all man. No fuck man you can't be a radical liberal socialist man, thats conformist man! You gotta be a Anarcho-Capitalist like all us man; be anti conformist man be just like us were all the same; anti-conformists mannnnnnnnnn."


Its a movie; a extreme exageration; that doesnt even make sense in the science fiction sense; and isn't even supposed to so get over yourselves.

Riiiiiiiiiiiight..... Brilliant analysis.


Anyways I'm requesting this thread be locked, I think we've milked it enough.

[Roxi]

i hadn't seen it mentioned that the robot was STOLEN from Short circuit... doesn't anyone remember this movie?

STEPHANIEEEEEE... NO DISSASEMBLE!!!

[The_Orlonater]

Kade, I suggest you check this out. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295&ei=PC92SNmDG4WSiwLK8_CSCw&hl=en)

Everyone should check that out, in fact.

edit: Sorry yongrel, i meant Kade :p

Great movie, thanks for that.

In my opinion, I don't really take this whole global warming thing that seriously, however I do believe in alternative energy resources for other reasons.

Master of summing things up. :D

[Kludge]

*snip*

Weren't you leaving, friend? (http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157611)

[The_Orlonater]

Lol.

[Mini-Me]

Give in to your anger...let the hate FLOW THROUGH YOU! ;)

[Omphfullas Zamboni]

i hadn't seen it mentioned that the robot was STOLEN from Short circuit... doesn't anyone remember this movie?

STEPHANIEEEEEE... NO DISSASEMBLE!!!

Based on the trailer for the new film, that's the real reason why WALL-E is such a shame. Professional plagiarism is pathetic.

[Theocrat]

I just came from seeing this movie at the theater, and I must say, the animation in it was simply phenomenal. There is definitely an environmental message in this film, and I won't say too much more about it so that I don't ruin the plot for those who haven't seen it yet.

The movie is basically centered around the "romance" of WALL-E and his friend EVE, and there were plenty of moments in the film to make you laugh and awe in their interactions with each other.

Go see it for yourselves, and make the determination if this movie is simply about unlikely love or is there another agenda going on behind the scenes. After watching it, I still think "The Incredibles" is the best Pixar film to date.

[lucius]

The only agenda supporting by corporations and GOP interests is to quell the growing body of evidence of man made global warming...

I disagree, this 'policy agenda', Sustainable Development, garners the lion's share of funding and media traction. Here is a great video from another thread that explains this: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-893921550183947386&q=agenda+21&ei=YCZ4SI7gKIqUrgLC4JGfCA&hl=en

[Brouhaha]

Guys should check this article out about Wall-E. Anyone ever noticed that Wall-E looks just like those drone fighters the military is working on? That's no coincidence. Just check this out. Go to link for the pictures of drones and other stuff..


http://warofillusions.wordpress.com/2008/06/21/wall-e-coming-to-a-battlefield-near-you/

[Radio talk show host Alex Jones has said many times over the years that the US military has a plan to replace meat and blood soldiers with robot drones by around 2025. The main character from the upcoming animated movie Wall-E, which has as its plot a sprinkling of guilt tripping where humanity has polluted the planet so much that a robot was left behind, called Wall-E to clean things up while we go off gallivanting on some other planet, is highly reminiscent of this. Notice how there are never in large numbers films about how the British and US armies have polluted the planet with depleted uranium, the hundreds of nuclear weapons tests, or the results of the UN standing by and letting the Amazon rainforest be logged. Which produces 20% of the Earth’s oxygen. No, innocent children have to be programmed everywhere they go to get them ready for tyranny when they grow up. Here’s Wall-E.

Yes…so cute…so loving. I can see it now, the mommies going awwww, over it. I wonder if they’d coo over this?

The first Terminators, T-1 model from Terminator 3

Plus, a tank drone from Beast Machines, a spinoff of the popular CGI show Beast Wars.

A second way of controlling us through guilt is those two little words, human nature. Everything negative is ascribed to human nature. Lies, lies, lies. All you have to do is look at a baby or a small child sometime and you can see the facts of that. A little known piece of war history as documented by US Army historian S.L.A. Marshall in his work Men Against Fire is that during WWII, only 25% of soldiers would fire when ordered to. They would just freeze up like a deer in the headlights. Well, you can’t use America as bad cop to wage wars to make the nation state look bad so you can get in the good cop world government with that attitude. Marshall advised that training of soldiers be radically changed after the war in order to turn this state of mind around. They’ve done their job there quite well.

In Iraq and Afghanistan, the soldiers are being killed by the dozens a month by roadside bombs and ambushes by the local resistance fighters. Even though the coalition forces have raped the living daylights out of these countries, they might actually have gotten through it much easier if the UK special forces wouldn’t do things like planning terrorist attacks by dressing up as Arabs, bringing along guns and bombs, get caught in the act, and then actually arriving in tanks to the Iraq jail where their imprisoned operatives were at and then bust them out. Can you imagine someone from a foriegn country that has occupied yours doing this sort of thing and getting away with it?

As that article points out, the only car bombings and terror related stuff in Iraq is UK and US made. Create a problem, wait for the people to cry for help, and impose your solutions — military bases and continued occupation. However, the coalition forces are stretched dangerously thin, and the people would riot if there were a draft. But there is a second option. Send in the drones.

Is that a soldier there or a new type of drone?

When children see this now, they will associate it with the nonthreatening Disney-Pixar context it has been put in, and because the association will be formed early in life, it will be difficult to break without assistance. Which is exactly the idea of those who really came up with the idea for this. On a side note, this movie, like many kids’ movies, looks like it was made, on one level, to assist with sex slave mind control programming scripts. The creator Andrew Stanton says: “WALL-E is the only one still truly living. And what is the ultimate purpose of living? To love. And WALL-E falls head over heels with a robot named EVE. Now, WALL-E’s feelings aren’t reciprocated because, well, she has no feelings. She’s a robot, cold and clinical.” Disney-Pixar is Illuminati all the way. Walt Disney was a 33rd degree mason, and his Satanic legacy still continues today.

I dare anyone to read this and be able to say truthfully that there is no serious pedophile activity at Disney.

Continuing from before, US troops needed to be conditioned to fire 100% of the time. That’s where violent video games come in. Presenting the aptly headlined, the military-nintendo complex, Douglas McDaniel reveals:

Game designers frequently receive Pentagon funding and other assistance to create and promote such entertainment. Since turning Doom into Marine Doom, the Marine Corps Combat and Development Command (Quantico, Va.) has “evaluated more than 20 commercially available electronic games for their potential use as training tools for marines.” Atari’s 1980s game BattleZone was made for the US military, and used as a Bradley Fighting Vehicle training simulator, one of the US arsenals’ best anti-personnel devices. MAK Technologies (Cambridge, Mass.) won a 1997 Department of Defense contract to create Marine Exed Unit 2000, an amphibious assault game intended for both military and commercial markets. Interactive Magic (iMagic Labs), maker of the flight simulation game Carrier Strike Fighter, was given permission to roam the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln to film videos to ensure accurate visuals and a realistic feel.

Today, years later, I again decided to take Alex Jones up on his many challenges to look up what he said about the military having a plan to make robot drone armies, and sure enough, the UK Guardian had done a report on just that:

But that is only the beginning. By 2015, the US Department of Defense plans that one third of its fighting strength will be composed of robots, part of a $127bn (£68bn) project known as Future Combat Systems (FCS), a transformation that is part of the largest technology project in American history.

The US army has already developed around 20 remotely controlled Unmanned Ground Systems that can be controlled by a laptop from around a mile away, and the US Navy and US Air Force are working on a similar number of systems with varying ranges. According to a US general quoted in the US Army’s Joint Robotics Program Master Plan (http://tinyurl.com/yl7s52 - 13.8MB PDF), “what we’re doing with unmanned ground and air vehicles is really bringing movies like Star Wars to reality”. The US military has 2,500 uncrewed systems deployed in conflicts around the world. But is it Star Wars or I, Robot that the US is bringing to reality? By 2035, the plan is for the first completely autonomous robot soldiers to stride on to the battlefield.

It goes on about how other countries are making their own droid armies as well. The US military is even actively recruiting gamers, and holding tournaments with cash prizes. From Liveleak.com:

“With the Iraq war now in its fifth year and the UK and US forces struggling to control the growing anarchy,the American Army has begun targeting gamers as means of growing its waning ranks. The Army Gaming Championships is a sponsored event that allows gamers to play compeditivly for cash prizes, but ONLY IF THEY CONSENT TO AN INTERVIEW WITH A RECRUITMENT OFFICER. Gears of war,Resistance,Call of Duty 3 all feature in the tournament, and the goal seems clear: to make people associate war with having fun and winning money in an attempt to encourage them to sign up for service”

Planned all along. Don’t be surprised to see a new push in the near future to have these things on our streets to “intelligently fight crime”. You can’t have a remote controlled droid army without having people who know how to operate them. It’d take way too long to train raw recruits, or it would if the military weren’t bringing in violent games for them to play on their free time. And gamers are experts at operating consoles. As the nintendo-military complex article writer showed, the Pentagon has been funding this violent game stuff for at least two decades. These guys are real smart people up there, and they don’t throw money around for nothing. I mean, it’s like some people are on ego trips and think that these guys went to the best schools in the country and turned out stupid and inept when they’re the ones who are maintaining control over them. At least there’s something to laugh about in all this.

I’ve insinuated here that the government has some sort of control over the movie industry, which does sound nuts to the average propaganda suckled American. Watch [or right click save as to download audio. The mp3 starts at 83 minutes in] what Dean Haglund, star of the X-Files and its spinoff the Lone Gunmen has to say about the FBI and NASA directly handing the plots in for the shows. You’ll be interested in what the plot of the pilot episode of the Lone Gunmen was, which was shot in 2000, and aired months before 9/11. Hint: World Trade Center. As always, what to believe is up to you.]

[electronicmaji]

Since turning Doom into Marine Doom, the Marine Corps Combat and Development Command (Quantico, Va.) has “evaluated more than 20 commercially available electronic games for their potential use as training tools for marines.”

Stopped reading there. This is a bullshit idea and everyone knows it; the DOOM Marine version is a utter lie; never existed; and was invented by ANTI-VIDEO GAME ATTORNEYs like the famous JACK THOMPSON.

Video Games are nothing like real life; not to mention the whole thing is one big long shitty conspiracy theory. Seriously; get a life and get the fuck up; I won't put of with that kind of bullshit on a forum aimed at providing truth to people.

[yongrel]

Stopped reading there. This is a bullshit idea and everyone knows it; the DOOM Marine version is a utter lie; never existed; and was invented by ANTI-VIDEO GAME ATTORNEYs like the famous JACK THOMPSON.

Video Games are nothing like real life; not to mention the whole thing is one big long shitty conspiracy theory. Seriously; get a life and get the fuck up; I won't put of with that kind of bullshit on a forum aimed at providing truth to people.

http://freespace.virgin.net/bg.shields/HighHorse.JPG

Weren't you leaving, by the way?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=144095

:confused:

[JosephTheLibertarian]

+1

come on people, am I in an area 51 forum now....

conspiracies are only fun when they make sense.

You don't believe that film makers sometimes try to make a political point with their movies? Enjoy lala land, good sir.

[Hiki]

Guys should check this article out about Wall-E. Anyone ever noticed that Wall-E looks just like those drone fighters the military is working on? That's no coincidence. Just check this out. Go to link for the pictures of drones and other stuff..

*snip*

Right, one of these again. The Illuminati is directing movies. Fantastic.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=33Kq0rvhOS8 Just like this paranoid crap.

[Brouhaha]

Whoa, whoa whoa. Do you think we're stupid here? An anti-videogame attorney inventing a game like that? Hahahahahaaaaa.....

And actually that's Dean Haglund, one of the stars of the X-files and its spinoff show saying the government handed out the plots of the script at parties. But I guess he's a conspiracy theorist too. People should watch the youtube clip in the article. T

That word is a criminal's best friend. Just rob a store, and when someone calls the cops on you just say ... didn't happen! Conspiracy theory! That word was coined during the JFK murder investigation. Hint hint folks.

[yongrel]

Whoa, whoa whoa. Do you think we're stupid here? An anti-videogame attorney inventing a game like that? Hahahahahaaaaa.....

You're being silly, and you bore me.

[electronicmaji]

Whoa, whoa whoa. Do you think we're stupid here? An anti-videogame attorney inventing a game like that? Hahahahahaaaaa.....

And actually that's Dean Haglund, one of the stars of the X-files and its spinoff show saying the government handed out the plots of the script at parties. But I guess he's a conspiracy theorist too. People should watch the youtube clip in the article. T

That word is a criminal's best friend. Just rob a store, and when someone calls the cops on you just say ... didn't happen! Conspiracy theory! That word was coined during the JFK murder investigation. Hint hint folks.

The anti-videogame activist invented the propaganda that the military was using Doom to train soldiers for combat. Utter and complete propagandist bullshit.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

The anti-videogame activist invented the propaganda that the military was using Doom to train soldiers for combat. Utter and complete propagandist bullshit.

Really? That would make no sense. The only thing you get out of alot of Doom is better hand eye cordination.

[electronicmaji]

Really? That would make no sense. The only thing you get out of alot of Doom is better hand eye cordination.

IT comes from a man who claims Grand Theft Auto is responsible for mass murders all over the Planet and the USA and wants make M rated games illegal to sell to anyone.

[Hiki]

Really? That would make no sense. The only thing you get out of alot of Doom is better hand eye cordination.

That is true. FPS games like Counter Strike improve your hand-eye-coordination and reflexes. In fact some Asian military/police force trains with Counter Strike, nothing bad in it.
And when we're talking about Jack Thompson...Well... He's an idiot and I do not take him seriously.

[WRellim]

Jesus fucking christ are you kidding me?

this is THE problem in America, why there is so much divisiveness--everyone insists on POLITICIZING THE SHIT out of EVERYTHING.

Also, i think it's rather silly that an economist from Mises.org dedicated a great deal of time to picking apart the conventions of this artistic, animated movie as it were some kind of scholarly documentary.

Nigga, please. Its a MOVIE--as in, not realistic. A work of fiction. I seriously doubt there's anyone who walks away from WALL-E thinking "oh yeah, that's me. That's what I'd do if i was on the axiom. sit around all day, get fat and play virtual golf!" no, of course not, but the caricature still makes a good point--and that is that the tendency towards Fat-Fuckism is both very real and negative. Seriously, look around--people drive their cars everywhere, complain about high gas prices, get fat then complain about their high health insurance premiums instead of jogging around the block to the bus stop to save money and get in shape.

And what's more--Fat-Fuckism has nothing to do with technology or capitalism. its a socio-cultural problem. People don't become fat fucks because other people keep selling them shit. They become fat fucks because they keep BUYING shit.
I mean, isn't it fair to criticize consumerism? That's the main thing the that the caricature of the Axiom and Buy N Large is criticizing. Last time I checked, we as Ron Paul Republicans are extremely critical of consumerism because we KNOW that we simply can't afford it anymore. We're borrowing money from China to pay for made-in-China consumer products. We have too much spending and not enough savings...does that sound familiar at all? A Ron Paul campaign message, maybe?

Also, much in the article is dedicated to economic change and entrepreneurship...well, what about the economic advantages of people getting off their fat asses and doing some moderate exercise or (dare i say it!) manual labor? Just because you do something by hand, it doesn't mean its going to kill you or break your back. I mean, I've hand-rolled blunts my whole life and I have yet to get arthritis!

WALL-E was one of the most beautiful movies I've seen in years, easily the best movie of the summer. The folks at pixar managed to make a film about two (essentially silent--they say like four or five words throughout the movie) robot characters and give them more emotional depth than all the characters in all the summer blockbusters combined. If, after watching WALL-E, ALL you get out of it is a "green" ("anti-capitalist, anti-technology") message, then you really weren't watching the movie, you were watching the back story.

Well, seriously, what else would you expect a fat-f*** of an "philosophical essayist" from the Mises institute to be doing with his time?

AS he states himself, he is not exactly the type to be out "toiling virtually all day on the traditional farm" ("Eeeww" he says) ...or doing anything else that is productive.

And when he writes such drivel as "A wholly static, apathetic, sated, and torpid society is inconceivable in reality." -- all he demonstrates to me is that he hasn't opened his eyes and seen anyone living in the Beltway, nor looked on the droves of people employed by the various bureaucracies and "Foundations" that surround every seat of "government" on our earth.

[Andrew-Austin]

Well, seriously, what else would you expect a fat-f*** of an "philosophical essayist" from the Mises institute to be doing with his time?

AS he states himself, he is not exactly the type to be out "toiling virtually all day on the traditional farm" ("Eeeww" he says) ...or doing anything else that is productive.

And when he writes such drivel as "A wholly static, apathetic, sated, and torpid society is inconceivable in reality." -- all he demonstrates to me is that he hasn't opened his eyes and seen anyone living in the Beltway, nor looked on the droves of people employed by the various bureaucracies and "Foundations" that surround every seat of "government" on our earth.

LoL I'm guessing you have family members who are either farmers or employees at Disney world. What else could explain the stupidly pointless aggression over something so trivial. I think you could use some fresh air more then the writer.

[Kade]

IT comes from a man who claims Grand Theft Auto is responsible for mass murders all over the Planet and the USA and wants make M rated games illegal to sell to anyone.

You're a pretty good presence here electronicmaji, you and I have much in common, but I am curious what your latest thoughts on the FISA vote and the expansion of Faith-based initiatives are....