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revolutionman
07-06-2008, 05:09 AM
Liberals will never allow us to do away with the public school system. I'm not convinced we should.

Is privatizing Public School a middle ground, that would be beneficial in some communities??

this is an article I found on the web from 2006...

article (http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2006/20061220153836.aspx)
They Say They Want a Revolution: Privately-Run Public Schools
But major media ignore or downplay some of commission's key recommendations for improved education in America.

By Julia A. Seymour
Business & Media Institute
12/20/2006 3:41:27 PM

“Don’t know much about history. Don’t know much biology. Don’t know much about science book. Don’t know much about the French I took.”



That Sam Cooke song expresses what many experts sense about American students. To fix the problem, one group of experts recommended a revolution: taking public school administration out of the government’s hands.



That’s right – a recent report featured on the cover of Time magazine proposed a number of solutions, including privately-run schools and some steps toward school choice. The report is likely to be debated among policymakers as the 2007 reauthorization of No Child Left Behind legislation creeps closer. But the media downplayed solutions that leaned toward privatization, either ignoring or criticizing them.



The report, from the New Commission on the Skills of the American Workforce, graced the December 18 cover of Time. The commission recommended a drastic overhaul of the public education system, including privately-run schools. But in more than 3,000 words the magazine never used the word “privatization.” Instead, on the third page of the article, Time referred to the commission’s call to “reorganize who runs the schools.”



But the magazine didn’t explore the privatization concept. Instead, Time was busy asking, “How many ways can you combine nickels, dimes and pennies to get 20 cents?” and defining “the new literacy” as high school juniors discussed a documentary called “Loose Change,” which makes a case for a 9/11 conspiracy theory.



A December 14 Associated Press story buried the suggestion for privatizing public education in its eleventh paragraph: “One other major shift would put independent contractors in charge of operating schools, though the schools would remain public.”



AP included two critics of that idea in the story, but not a single proponent of it.





Competing in a World Economy



While Time focused on students’ understanding of alternate theories of history, the report of the New Commission on the Skills of the American Workforce called for an educational revolution to ensure that American workers can compete and maintain standards of living in a changing world economy.



The commission included 26 education, labor and business leaders from both political parties, including two former federal education secretaries. In 1990, the first Commission on the Skills of the American Workforce released a different report, but with the same purpose – to examine the world economy and determine what American workers would need to survive in it. Several of the original commission recommendations were enacted.



The New Commission proposed $60 billion in major changes to the public school system, including:



* Creation and requirement of State board examinations at the end of 10th grade, allowing students to enter community college, prep for a more elite school, or remediate to pass the examination
* Recruitment of the best teachers and enticing them with higher pay, offset by lower pension benefits
* Modification of the governing and funding structure of schools so that property taxes do not determine school funding, and creating contract-run schools managed by for-profit or non-profit groups



Media Ignore Charter-Like Concept



But the suggestion of creating charter-like schools out of the current education system was barely reported by news media, even though the commission’s report earned the attention of the major papers, Time magazine, and some television.



CNN’s “Lou Dobbs Tonight” did not discuss the privatization issue. During the December 14 show, Kitty Pilgrim mentioned both the board examinations and teacher pay increases, but not privatization. She said “The report also recommends creating high-performance schools,” but neglected to say how commissioners thought they could be created.



CBS “Evening News” simply delivered the facts: “Public schools would no longer be run by local districts. Instead, schools could be managed by groups of teachers or private companies,” said reporter Thalia Assuras on December 14.



Neither ABC nor NBC had segments on the commission’s findings at all.





Contract-Run Schools



The executive summary of the report, titled “Tough Choices or Tough Times,” said, “schools would be operated by independent contractors, many of them limited-liability corporations owned and run by teachers.” It also said “helping organizations” could operate schools.



These organizations “could range from schools of education to teachers’ collaboratives to for-profit and non-profit schools.”



Parents would also have school choice, having the right to choose a school for their children from among the contract schools.



But why privatize? The report stated that “The competitive, data-based market, combined with the performance contracts themselves, would create schools that were constantly seeking to improve their performance year in and year out.”



While the report did not name such schools charter schools, commissioner Marc Tucker told The Washington Post they “would be like charter schools in one crucial respect: They would be highly entrepreneurial.”



Cato Institute policy analyst Adam Schaeffer said the concept “sounds similar” to charter schools and that “it is a step toward the right direction.” But Schaeffer said he doesn’t think the idea goes far enough, because it doesn’t decouple taxpayers’ money from the bureaucracy.



But as the report explained, it would provide some competition. Journalist and author John Stossell explained in a March 1 column entitled “Competition Works” how public education can benefit from competition.



“Educational experts, freed from the massive regulations that snarl the public schools, can come up with new and better ideas for teaching,” Stossel said. “Competition works because it gives people incentives to produce – it inspires them to work constantly at trying to find better ways to please their customers. The bad producers lose their jobs – but the best ones gain new customers. Bad schools will close and better schools will open.”



That perspective was missing from most reporting on the revolutionary recommendations.





Critics Only



While The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, and The New York Times included the concept of privatization, none sought sources from outside the commission to support or explain it.



The December 15 Wall Street Journal put the proposal to privatize schools near the beginning of the story, but later mentioned “two former labor leaders” on the commission who dissented from that proposal because they claimed “letting private contractors run all public schools [is] ‘an open door for profiteers’.”



No one was quoted in the Journal who favored the contract school idea.



The executive director of the National School Boards Association, Anne L. Bryant, was quoted in the December 15 Washington Post article criticizing the contract schools idea, but the Post did not quote anyone from an organization that favored the proposal.



On the same day, The New York Times quoted commission member and New York City School chancellor Joel Klein, calling him a supporter of the idea. Like the Post, the Times included privatization in the lead paragraph but followed later with union criticism of the proposal.



Not one of these three major newspapers quoted a non-commission source who supported the steps toward school choice, despite many organizations and experts who support it.



Those experts include Dan Lips, an education analyst at The Heritage Foundation, who said, “I think this is in the same direction as charter schools. And what we’ve seen with charters is a step forward for American education. Some are providing the best examples of what public education can be. I think the charter school model is something that everyone should be able to embrace.”





What a Wonderful World This Would Be?



Jane Porter’s BusinessWeek.com article about the report did the best job of explaining how the system would change. Although it did not include outside opinions on the school choice issues, Porter explained how the process would work and quoted commissioner Klein.



“The commission’s 10 recommendations would gradually transform locally run public schools into privately owned projects run by contractors. These contractors, made up of experienced teachers, universities, nonprofits, and public and private organizations, would operate in a more entrepreneurial manner than the school districts we know today. According to this system, contractors will be held accountable by school boards who control whether their contracts are renewed.”



Porter quoted Klein, who said, “If you align the incentives properly … you will see much more dynamism, much more entrepreneurship, and much more differentiation, which is not what you see in public education.”

Kalifornia
07-06-2008, 06:11 AM
I have come to the conclusion that collusion of government and business is the worst possible solution.

Im of the opinion that educational expenses should be deductible from property taxes. That is the way to privatize it. No opportunity to graft. When .gov pays the bill, and regulates the industry, there is always some corporate douchebag standing in line to buy some kind of regulation favorable to him and his cronies.

Grimnir Wotansvolk
07-06-2008, 10:13 AM
Public schooling is an unequivocal failure. Privatizing it would force them to improve or dissolve, just as with any other business.

Alex Libman
07-06-2008, 10:56 AM
Of all the government's crimes, government schooling is probably the worst because it enables all others. The existing system would have to be dismantled gradually, by increasing local control, empowering the local stake-holders of each individual school, and giving the parents more control.

Privatization handled incorrectly can be a bad thing, but it is an exit wound of socialism, not an entry wound of capitalism. Selling government assets (which in theory belong to the community) to the highest bidder is definitely not the best way to go. Divide the ownership of the school assets (like shares in an IPO) between its tenured teachers and parents involved. Some schools would be liquidated due to their inability to compete with other educational alternatives available in the free market. Some schools will continue operating on a private basis, attract the best teachers & customers, prosper, and grow.

orafi
07-06-2008, 11:02 AM
We can have public schooling as long as government gets off of private schooling's back.

Private schools will produce the better students, and in the end, will become dominant.

mediahasyou
07-06-2008, 11:15 AM
Taxpayers still pay for education. However, each student is attached $5,000 and can choose the school of choice.

Milwaukee and other countries have already done this.

Alex Libman
07-06-2008, 11:17 AM
No, public schools, by definition, exist as the result of theft (taxation), and the long-term goal of any freedom-loving movement should be their complete abolition.

The middle class and above (90% of the society) would be better off from their own abilities, and the poor (bottom 10%) will, in the long run, benefit more from voluntary charity, including many "open source" movements related to education materials.

The_Orlonater
07-06-2008, 11:21 AM
Privatizing them? Naw, not every family has $3000-$5000 to pay for schooling. Believe me, there's a lot of poor(er) families.

I say get the government out of schooling. Leave it to local taxes to fund schools. More power to the parents.

pinkmandy
07-06-2008, 11:40 AM
The problem we have is that money is attached to the school that is in your district so that's where your child goes unless you can afford an alternative. Why is it like that? Why isn't the money attached TO THE CHILD?

And the fed needs to absolutely get the hell out of education, period. Let local communities decide how to run and fund their school. NH uses a lottery for example. It doesn't cost that much to educate kids if you aren't wasting the money. If we were teaching children how to read properly in the first place would we need all the remedial reading? And how useful is high school to most kids? Wouldn't technical schools, specialty schools, or getting out to work benefit more kids? There are a million different ways to educate kids- there is absolutely no excuse for what public schools are doing. After homeschooling my own and seeing how easy it really is to teach a child I can't justify public schools. They aren't changing for the better because TPTB don't want them to change. Public schools are doing exactly what they want them to do and are doing it very well.

The "system" is not about producing bright, well educated kids. It's about funding unions, textbook companies, bureaucracies, and keeping people at an acceptable level of intellect so TPTB can do whatever they want without too much dissent. It is the core of all the problems we face because it is where the dumbing down and training of the masses begins.

JosephTheLibertarian
07-06-2008, 11:50 AM
I believe in separation of government & economy. Economy means schools. This means we end all public schools overnight and we....do nothing. That's my education policy. You like? Finito!

pdavis
07-06-2008, 12:44 PM
How do we privatize government schools? Homesteading.
Since the state uses stolen money and land in order to build and fund schools, the state is not the legitimate owner of the property and therefore the property should be viewed as unowned. Since the schools are unowned and is almost impossible to locate and return the tax money and land stolen from the previous owners, the people whom have mixed their labor with the land (the faculty and/or the students) should be given full ownership of the schools.

JosephTheLibertarian
07-06-2008, 12:46 PM
How do we privatize government schools? Homesteading.
Since the state uses stolen money and land in order to build and fund schools, the state is not the legitimate owner of the property and therefore the property should be viewed as unowned. Since the schools are unowned and is almost impossible to locate and return the tax money and land stolen from the previous owners, the people whom have mixed their labor with the land (the faculty and/or the students) should be given full ownership of the schools.

We just defund it and not pay the teachers. That should give them a clue. If they want be stubborn, we won't stop them. The schools themselves should just be teft to whoever wants to claim them. non-gov issue

revolutionman
07-06-2008, 02:03 PM
there have been some interesting responses here. Allow me to share with you my experience with outsourced public services.

Trash pick up. I know in big cities there is a lot of negative stigma with privatized trash pickup and disposal, but where I'm from originally, a small city, privatized trash pick up was a good thing. The trash man went from being some shithead government employee to being a professional that does not abuse my receptacles or leave garbage in the road.

Mail Delivery, the USPS has outsourced mail delivery to private contractors where I currently live. My mail has arrived within the same 15 minute period every day for six months. The guy even honks the horn for the def lady across the street.

Renegades
07-06-2008, 02:04 PM
There are plenty of free private schools. Especially in my area.

Kraig
07-06-2008, 02:08 PM
First things first education needs to go back to the states and we need to get rid of the Federal Department of Education. After that happens let the individual states talk about privatizing.

SeanEdwards
07-06-2008, 04:32 PM
The guy even honks the horn for the def lady across the street.

I don't get it.

:confused:

Andrew-Austin
07-06-2008, 04:39 PM
Go read/listen-to John Taylor Gatto's work on this subject matter.

revolutionman
07-06-2008, 04:41 PM
shes not a 100% def, but shes really hard of hearing. Plus shes dependent on her social security check (I know I know), so he goes out of his way to let her know that her mail has arrived. That would be the over all point.

SeanEdwards
07-06-2008, 05:03 PM
shes not a 100% def, but shes really hard of hearing. Plus shes dependent on her social security check (I know I know), so he goes out of his way to let her know that her mail has arrived. That would be the over all point.

Ok. It just sounded funny. Like going out of your way to wave to the blind person.

Ozwest
07-06-2008, 05:24 PM
No need to privatize.

Just break the unions, and hire teachers on the basis of merit.

danberkeley
07-06-2008, 06:37 PM
Privatization handled incorrectly can be a bad thing, but it is an exit wound of socialism, not an entry wound of capitalism. Selling government assets (which in theory belong to the community) to the highest bidder is definitely not the best way to go.

It wouldn't make any sense for government to own the buildings and other properties that are use for schooling. What are they going to do with them? Rent them out to privete schools? That would leave private schools exposed to tyranny over what may or may not be done in those buildings (i.e. equality issues). The government should sell all the properties that were used for schooling and return the money to its taxpayers.


Divide the ownership of the school assets (like shares in an IPO) between its tenured teachers and parents involved. Some schools would be liquidated due to their inability to compete with other educational alternatives available in the free market. Some schools will continue operating on a private basis, attract the best teachers & customers, prosper, and grow.

the tenured teachers should get nothing, unless they paid taxes that went towards the school.



Privatizing them? Naw, not every family has $3000-$5000 to pay for schooling. Believe me, there's a lot of poor(er) families.

I say get the government out of schooling. Leave it to local taxes to fund schools. More power to the parents.

Sure. But taxe rates would be lowered since there wont be any need to fund schooling via the government. That would mean that parents will have more cash in their pockets to send their kids to private schools or even homeschool. Also, the free market will provide education for poorer families.



How do we privatize government schools? Homesteading.
Since the state uses stolen money and land in order to build and fund schools, the state is not the legitimate owner of the property and therefore the property should be viewed as unowned. Since the schools are unowned and is almost impossible to locate and return the tax money and land stolen from the previous owners, the people whom have mixed their labor with the land (the faculty and/or the students) should be given full ownership of the schools.

You bring up a very good point. If I stole from you, I would have to return what I stole from you or something of equal compensation. It should be the same with government. If government stole your money to build a school, they government should compensate you with a proportionate amount of ownership in that school.

nullvalu
07-06-2008, 10:06 PM
Privatizing them? Naw, not every family has $3000-$5000 to pay for schooling. Believe me, there's a lot of poor(er) families.

I say get the government out of schooling. Leave it to local taxes to fund schools. More power to the parents.

Wow are you new to this? Sorry, but the point of privatization would be to save tax dollars and spend your money the way YOU see fit. If you aren't already paying $3000 in taxes/year then you must not be working/buying much.

I think a MAJOR step forward would be to get school voucher legislation pushed through, this would at least put some competition within the existing public school systems.

revolutionman
07-07-2008, 06:57 AM
i think that while Privatized Public Education might not be our ultimate goal, i think that its a more socially acceptable short term goal on a local or state level than 100% abolition of the public school system.

Privatized education really just means that the teachers, faculties, and materials would be the employees/property of a company or corporation. The bill would still be paid by the government through tax dollars, but it would inject a small dose of free market into the school system, because this company would have to do whatever it could to meet the standards of the local board of education and PTA in order to maintain its contract.

It would also serve as a great primer for completely private education by showing people that private entities are better suited to provide a quality education than the Government.

Americans have been on the tit for 100 or more years, your not just gonna rip their nanny state out from under them, you've gotta ween them off. Like a heroin addict being weened off of methadone.