PDA

View Full Version : Project off the grid




ronpaulhawaii
07-05-2008, 08:17 PM
It won't be for everyone, but I'm curious to see peoples opinions

http://www.projectoffthegrid.com/

Kludge
07-05-2008, 08:21 PM
If they're intent on becoming a political symbol and seceding, I'd join/fund.

Allen72289
07-05-2008, 08:35 PM
Adobe homes! They stole my idea!

Yay!

Kalifornia
07-05-2008, 08:41 PM
um. No. creepy creepy video

Pauls' Revere
07-05-2008, 08:44 PM
where exactly are the areas that would be considered? Sounds cool though.

rancher89
07-06-2008, 06:37 AM
50% creepy/50% where do I sign up

Creepy: The message I got was that MEN would be expected to train to defend the women, children and elderly. What about WOMEN who would be capable and already trained to defend all, would they be allowed to join the ranks of the "defenders"?? The best carpenter would be in charge of carpentry, the best leader would lead. What happens if you don't have a "best" you just have someone who's read a book about it? Plus both narrators have a bit of the "I'm not an actor, but I am" about them as they make their way through the video. I'm not sure I'm sold on what they are selling, just because it might be snake oil.

Where do I sign up: Living more simply, hard physical labor and seeing the fruits of that labor everyday = good plan. I notices wind mills, I'm supposing wind power for whatever power they need. References to Native American respect for the land were a good touch, a mite overdone maybe, but a nice touch.

Living off the grid is a goal that many people say they want. Having done it a few years myself, I say it is really hard work and you have to be thinking ahead all the time. Do I have enough firewood, water, is it time to plant, harvest, is it going to rain enough or do I need to put in irrigation ditches, how do I handle the bugs, do I have enough food stored to get through a bad harvest? I had to haul my own water from a spring, cut my own firewood to keep me warm all winter (zone 3 - 4 Northern Sierras) cook food on the same stove that provided the heat, etc. The rewards are great, the reality/work is hard.


I see the need for highly skilled, experianced practitioners of the basic skills needed in any community, medical, tool fashioning, food growing and preservation. Oh yeah, and protecting all that from the ravening hoards just outside the gate.......sigh, and a leader, sigh......

Kalifornia
07-06-2008, 06:48 AM
50% creepy/50% where do I sign up

Creepy: The message I got was that MEN would be expected to train to defend the women, children and elderly. What about WOMEN who would be capable and already trained to defend all, would they be allowed to join the ranks of the "defenders"?? The best carpenter would be in charge of carpentry, the best leader would lead. What happens if you don't have a "best" you just have someone who's read a book about it? Plus both narrators have a bit of the "I'm not an actor, but I am" about them as they make their way through the video. I'm not sure I'm sold on what they are selling, just because it might be snake oil.

Where do I sign up: Living more simply, hard physical labor and seeing the fruits of that labor everyday = good plan. I notices wind mills, I'm supposing wind power for whatever power they need. References to Native American respect for the land were a good touch, a mite overdone maybe, but a nice touch.

Living off the grid is a goal that many people say they want. Having done it a few years myself, I say it is really hard work and you have to be thinking ahead all the time. Do I have enough firewood, water, is it time to plant, harvest, is it going to rain enough or do I need to put in irrigation ditches, how do I handle the bugs, do I have enough food stored to get through a bad harvest? I had to haul my own water from a spring, cut my own firewood to keep me warm all winter (zone 3 - 4 Northern Sierras) cook food on the same stove that provided the heat, etc. The rewards are great, the reality/work is hard.


I see the need for highly skilled, experianced practitioners of the basic skills needed in any community, medical, tool fashioning, food growing and preservation. Oh yeah, and protecting all that from the ravening hoards just outside the gate.......sigh, and a leader, sigh......

I get the sense that this is gonna end up a fucking cult of personality and some political bullshit game. A free society means property rights. If you dont own the land, you dont have rights. Then this harping on 'the men'.... it all seems very gay and communal.

shudder.

Sandra
07-06-2008, 07:08 AM
It has the potential to be exploited and abused like any other goverment. Utopian role playing with an old English twist. Cobb home? ... I hope this isn't planned for the South. These people can promote those values right where they live now. No commune needed.

ronpaulhawaii
07-06-2008, 07:28 AM
I agree it has a creepiness factor, mostly the gender roles bit.

The land "ownership" issue seems less of a factor, to me. Do property rights have to include the right to own the land itself? Many cultures have said no.

One other thing I noted was the range of landscapes they displayed. ISTM they were trying to say their plot had all of those features, and that would seem a very BIG plot to me...

Kalifornia
07-06-2008, 07:33 AM
I agree it has a creepiness factor, mostly the gender roles bit.

The land "ownership" issue seems less of a factor, to me. Do property rights have to include the right to own the land itself? Many cultures have said no.

One other thing I noted was the range of landscapes they displayed. ISTM they were trying to say their plot had all of those features, and that would seem a very BIG plot to me...

if you dont own the land, you can be ejected if you disagree with whoever they decide is 'the best leader'.

I believe their quote was "here are some features of the land NEAR to the land we have bought" Based on what I saw, Im guessing they are in the great plains near some wind eroded areas or mountains. Im guessing Colorado, Wyoming, or the Dakotas.

ronpaulhawaii
07-06-2008, 07:40 AM
if you dont own the land, you can be ejected if you disagree with whoever they decide is 'the best leader'.

I believe their quote was "here are some features of the land NEAR to the land we have bought" Based on what I saw, Im guessing they are in the great plains near some wind eroded areas or mountains. Im guessing Colorado, Wyoming, or the Dakotas.

Yeah, it just seemd they used the term "near" a bit liberally.

Does "owning" the land protect anyone in any country, if the gov't decides it want's it, for whatever reason (even punishment)?

Kalifornia
07-06-2008, 07:55 AM
Yeah, it just seemd they used the term "near" a bit liberally.

Does "owning" the land protect anyone in any country, if the gov't decides it want's it, for whatever reason (even punishment)?

I agree that the use of the word 'near' probably employed some creative license.

and yeah, owning land provides alot of protections. You cant be deprived of it without substantive and procedural due process, and in the event of a 'taking', you have to be compensated.market value. If you dont like it, you can fight it in court, and have a shot at legal fees.

If you go live on someone else's land, they just ask you to leave, and if you dont, you are tresspassing.

Having built a house there will provide you a small hedge, since you can prove that you are a resident, but depending on how they write this cult up, they could remove you as quickly as it takes for the local sheriff to execute an unlawful detainer, and then its up to you to sue them to try to get some value for your mud hut, which will be equivalent to a value somewhere between zilch and jackshit.

klamath
07-06-2008, 08:00 AM
There were many many communes in the sixies and seventies all based on this idea. All failed. What works is a cooperative agreements between land owners.

Dieseler
07-06-2008, 11:22 AM
I don't reckon I would get wound up in anything with them fellers.

Cowlesy
07-06-2008, 01:22 PM
hah...I love the icon of the one person who left a comment on that video...

http://bp1.blogger.com/_AGU21xCrEEs/SF2C4E0iPxI/AAAAAAAAAAY/Hws9SWqAvyI/S220-h/238.jpg

n/m I can't seem to load the pic (but it's an American Flag with a commie hammer/sickle *sp where the stars should be)

Peace&Freedom
07-06-2008, 03:54 PM
I don't see mentioning a traditional arrangement (men defending) as being creepy at all, just an acknowledgement of what has been the case 99.9% of the time in similar curcumstances. Cults of personality have arisen in 'cooperative' situations as well. Surely we're not going to be cowed by political correctness considerations in setting up truly independent living communities?

rancher89
07-06-2008, 05:34 PM
It's just that I know some very able women. They could probably put to shame 95% of the "so called able" men out there.


My sister is one of them


My point is that a society that starts out excluding women (by the ommission of the fact that women can be protective, think mother bears) is doomed from the get go from MHO.

Notice the one woman in the video in the low vee neck blouse. She needs protecting IMHO. My sister doesn't. I don't. I'll help you raise that wall and see that roof done. durrrrniiiit.

On second thought, not joining at all. As a thought exercise, usefull. Reality bites.

MsDoodahs
07-06-2008, 06:39 PM
Not on broadband, so I can't watch the vid til later...but I will say that communes don't do it for me.

Allen72289
07-06-2008, 09:02 PM
property ownership is an issue.

I didn't like the statement of using armed thugs to throw out ppl.

take property ownership, principles of freedom, low cost lliving and self-sufficent living and we could create our own 1791 version of America.

Pragmatism
07-22-2008, 11:07 AM
50% creepy/50% where do I sign up

Creepy: The message I got was that MEN would be expected to train to defend the women, children and elderly. What about WOMEN who would be capable and already trained to defend all, would they be allowed to join the ranks of the "defenders"?? The best carpenter would be in charge of carpentry, the best leader would lead. What happens if you don't have a "best" you just have someone who's read a book about it? Plus both narrators have a bit of the "I'm not an actor, but I am" about them as they make their way through the video. I'm not sure I'm sold on what they are selling, just because it might be snake oil.

Where do I sign up: Living more simply, hard physical labor and seeing the fruits of that labor everyday = good plan. I notices wind mills, I'm supposing wind power for whatever power they need. References to Native American respect for the land were a good touch, a mite overdone maybe, but a nice touch.

Living off the grid is a goal that many people say they want. Having done it a few years myself, I say it is really hard work and you have to be thinking ahead all the time. Do I have enough firewood, water, is it time to plant, harvest, is it going to rain enough or do I need to put in irrigation ditches, how do I handle the bugs, do I have enough food stored to get through a bad harvest? I had to haul my own water from a spring, cut my own firewood to keep me warm all winter (zone 3 - 4 Northern Sierras) cook food on the same stove that provided the heat, etc. The rewards are great, the reality/work is hard.


I see the need for highly skilled, experianced practitioners of the basic skills needed in any community, medical, tool fashioning, food growing and preservation. Oh yeah, and protecting all that from the ravening hoards just outside the gate.......sigh, and a leader, sigh......

First: Do they realize that they are AT THE VERY LEAST two generations out before they would realize any level of self sustainability and basic comfort. Just come here to New York state and talk to the Amish for a lesson on reality. I would like to see the attrition level on both men and women once such project underway. lets be realistic.

Second: Why the isolationalism. Did the American patriots run from the British 230 years ago. No. We fought for our freedom and rights in each and every community at the grass roots level. That's what we need to do now. We are a contiguous nation and this is the way to win the revolution, not isolating ourselves in compounds. Nothing wrong with their environmental beliefs. I agree that we need mor self-sustaining energy, but again, we can implement in our own communities.

steve005
07-22-2008, 08:56 PM
but depending on how they write this cult up, they could remove you as quickly as it takes for the local sheriff to execute an unlawful detainer, and then its up to you to sue them to try to get some value for your mud hut, which will be equivalent to a value somewhere between zilch and jackshit

lol

ronpaulhawaii
07-22-2008, 10:18 PM
First: Do they realize that they are AT THE VERY LEAST two generations out before they would realize any level of self sustainability and basic comfort. Just come here to New York state and talk to the Amish for a lesson on reality. I would like to see the attrition level on both men and women once such project underway. lets be realistic.

Second: Why the isolationalism. Did the American patriots run from the British 230 years ago. No. We fought for our freedom and rights in each and every community at the grass roots level. That's what we need to do now. We are a contiguous nation and this is the way to win the revolution, not isolating ourselves in compounds. Nothing wrong with their environmental beliefs. I agree that we need mor self-sustaining energy, but again, we can implement in our own communities.

+1776

E komo mai :)

Allen72289
08-01-2008, 01:28 PM
I just called the guy, he said those who purchase the land actually own it.

Godfather89
08-01-2008, 05:16 PM
Its hard to say if I would want to be in such a community, to one degree it kind of lacks libertarianism yet to another degree it does not. I mean a SAFE - DRUG FREE that is what I feel holds me back.

Who ensures the safety? Only I am responsible for Me. Does this mean a pro-gun community or weapons are banned? If it is the former instead of the latter than okay. Why drug free? Do they mean like pharmaceuticals or like entheogens? If they mean the latter instead of the former than I say okay.

newyearsrevolution08
08-01-2008, 05:41 PM
We don't need to start compounds or areas where we mass together. Just get a plot of land and live as you want. We REALLY do NOT have to hold hands through everything people lol....

Everyone wants the entire group to go this way or that way when true freedom is where we all go wherever the hell we want to.

Buy land, get off the grid and start your own life. Nothing needed to sign up or pay for at all.

Meatwasp
08-01-2008, 06:18 PM
50% creepy/50% where do I sign up

Creepy: The message I got was that MEN would be expected to train to defend the women, children and elderly. What about WOMEN who would be capable and already trained to defend all, would they be allowed to join the ranks of the "defenders"?? The best carpenter would be in charge of carpentry, the best leader would lead. What happens if you don't have a "best" you just have someone who's read a book about it? Plus both narrators have a bit of the "I'm not an actor, but I am" about them as they make their way through the video. I'm not sure I'm sold on what they are selling, just because it might be snake oil.

Where do I sign up: Living more simply, hard physical labor and seeing the fruits of that labor everyday = good plan. I notices wind mills, I'm supposing wind power for whatever power they need. References to Native American respect for the land were a good touch, a mite overdone maybe, but a nice touch.

Living off the grid is a goal that many people say they want. Having done it a few years myself, I say it is really hard work and you have to be thinking ahead all the time. Do I have enough firewood, water, is it time to plant, harvest, is it going to rain enough or do I need to put in irrigation ditches, how do I handle the bugs, do I have enough food stored to get through a bad harvest? I had to haul my own water from a spring, cut my own firewood to keep me warm all winter (zone 3 - 4 Northern Sierras) cook food on the same stove that provided the heat, etc. The rewards are great, the reality/work is hard.


I see the need for highly skilled, experianced practitioners of the basic skills needed in any community, medical, tool fashioning, food growing and preservation. Oh yeah, and protecting all that from the ravening hoards just outside the gate.......sigh, and a leader, sigh......
I hear you Rancher I went through similar situations. BUT I still think it was the greasted adventure in my life. I have it easy compared ti then but I will always look at it with nostalgia.

Godfather89
08-01-2008, 08:39 PM
We don't need to start compounds or areas where we mass together. Just get a plot of land and live as you want. We REALLY do NOT have to hold hands through everything people lol....

Everyone wants the entire group to go this way or that way when true freedom is where we all go wherever the hell we want to.

Buy land, get off the grid and start your own life. Nothing needed to sign up or pay for at all.

True that, it seems like our society has one uniformed desire and that is our materialistic outlook. Why do I need to have a big house, big land, why do I need a credit score, to hell with it all, I would be better off without it and think most people feel the same!

rancher89
08-02-2008, 08:04 AM
I hear you Rancher I went through similar situations. BUT I still think it was the greasted adventure in my life. I have it easy compared ti then but I will always look at it with nostalgia.

me too, those were wonderful years! antelope, bears, all sorts of wildlife would just come cruising through like they owned the place--lol--they did!! It take a hardy soul and body to make it work.

Allen72289
08-04-2008, 02:04 PM
Who ensures the safety? Only I am responsible for Me. Does this mean a pro-gun community or weapons are banned? If it is the former instead of the latter than okay. Why drug free? Do they mean like pharmaceuticals or like entheogens? If they mean the latter instead of the former than I say okay.

They're pro-gun, the first thing the guy asked was do you have a gun for self-defense.

Kinda sounds militant though.

Godfather89
08-04-2008, 04:28 PM
So whats with "drug-free"

123tim
08-04-2008, 08:31 PM
I couldn't really tell if it applies to this project, but I do wonder about those places that have communal property.

What happens in these places where everyone owns the same common property and you're expected to share and pitch in with everything?

This sounds great while you are young and vibrant, but what happens when you get old and start to slow down?

Will the younger community work hard to support you?
Will you be cast out when you reach an unproductive age?
Will you find yourself old and owning nothing?
What if the group doesn't grow and everyone gets old (and unproductive) at the same time?

It seems like you really need strong family ties for something like this to work. I wonder how a group of strangers can come together and make it work?

Kalifornia
08-04-2008, 11:55 PM
Im telling you, these fools are 5 years away from a koolaid party.

noxagol
08-05-2008, 06:25 AM
I couldn't really tell if it applies to this project, but I do wonder about those places that have communal property.

What happens in these places where everyone owns the same common property and you're expected to share and pitch in with everything?

This sounds great while you are young and vibrant, but what happens when you get old and start to slow down?

Will the younger community work hard to support you?
Will you be cast out when you reach an unproductive age?
Will you find yourself old and owning nothing?
What if the group doesn't grow and everyone gets old (and unproductive) at the same time?

It seems like you really need strong family ties for something like this to work. I wonder how a group of strangers can come together and make it work?

That's just it, communual property DOESN'T work. It can't. It goes against human nature and it is completely illogical. It will always lead to everyone being slaves and one or a small group being the master.