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Mach
07-03-2008, 03:02 PM
Wednesday July 2, 2008 05:49 EDT
The right's game-playing with "dual loyalty" and "anti-Semitism" accusations (http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/07/02/israel_iran/index.html)


As our political establishment takes new and disturbing steps towards a more confrontational approach with Iran, the effort to stomp out any discussion of the role Israel plays in that policy has once again intensified. Last week, Joe Klein -- basically out of the blue -- observed that while many advocates of an attack on Iraq (which once included Klein) were motivated by "neocolonial" fantasies or ensuring access to Iraq's oil, many other war proponents were motivated by their allegiance to Israel:

The fact that a great many Jewish neoconservatives -- people like Joe Lieberman and the crowd over at Commentary -- plumped for this war, and now for an even more foolish assault on Iran, raised the question of divided loyalties: using U.S. military power, U.S. lives and money, to make the world safe for Israel.

Since then, Klein has escalated the provocative rhetoric, writing several days ago:

You want evidence of divided loyalties? How about the "benign domino theory" that so many Jewish neoconservatives talked to me about -- off the record, of course -- in the runup to the Iraq war, the idea that Israel's security could be won by taking out Saddam, which would set off a cascade of disaster for Israel's enemies in the region? As my grandmother would say, feh! Do you actually deny that the casus belli that dare not speak its name wasn't, as I wrote in February 2003, a desire to make the world safe for Israel? Why the rush now to bomb Iran, a country that poses some threat to Israel but none -- for the moment -- to the United States . . . unless we go ahead, attack it, and the mullahs unleash Hezbollah terrorists against us? Do you really believe the mullahs would stage a nuclear attack on Israel, destroying the third most holy site in Islam and killing untold numbers of Muslims? I am not ruling out the use of force against Iran -- it may come to that -- but you folks seem to embrace it gleefully.

Then, after Joe Lieberman appeared on Face the Nation last weekend to (as usual) agitate for war with Iran, Klein not-so-cryptically asked: "Again, I wonder why Lieberman is so fixated on Iran."

Needless to say, the assault on Klein has been as vicious, furious and dishonest as it was predictable. As Mickey Kaus notes:

Max Boot, Pete Wehner, Jennifer Rubin, Paul Mirengoff and Abraham Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League all wrote confidently outraged responses to Klein's raising of the "divided loyalties" possibility -- and, indeed, it's not the sort of assertion that has typically gone unpunished in the past. When Klein stubbornly failed to back down in a second post, Wehner somewhat smugly anticipated his near-certain demise:

It's like watching a movie that you now know is going to end very badly, and very sadly.

Regarding the ADL's condemnation of Klein, Kaus wrote:

Note to [ADL's Abraham] Foxman: I worked at The New Republic! The magazine supported the war. I consider it's [sic] editor, Martin Peretz, to be a friend and mentor. But if you think Marty's views are uninfluenced by his affinity for Israel -- and that the views of many of the eminent neocons who visited our offices were uninfluenced by "matters of faith" and/or religious identity -- then you don't know Marty and you don't know The New Republic. In fact, you're more than a bit clueless. But you are not clueless.

This attempt to "punish" people who note the role which allegiance to Israel plays in many advocates' desire for a militaristic American Middle East policy has always been an attempt to punish people for expressing a self-evidently true and important point. But that's only the second worst aspect of it. The worst aspect of it is that those who seek to place the "divided loyalty" point off limits are often the ones who most aggressively wield that same claim -- only they do so in service of their right-wing agenda. They seek to create a climate where "dual loyalty" arguments can be exploited by them for political gain, but cannot be spoken of by their political opponents upon pain of being subjected to exploitative, ugly accusations of anti-semitism and other crimes.

As I've documented previously, the very same right-wing advocates who scream "anti-semitism" at anyone, such as Klein, who raises the issue of devotion to Israel themselves constantly argue that American Jews do -- and should -- cast their votes in American elections based upon what is best for Israel. They nakedly trot out the "dual loyalty" argument in order to manipulate American Jews to vote Republican in U.S. elections (e.g.: "the GOP supports Israel and Obama doesn't; therefore, American Jews shouldn't vote for Obama"), while screaming "anti-semitism" the minute the premise is used by their political opponents. The Weekly Standard ran articles openly arguing that American Jews should vote Republican because the GOP is better for Israel, and Joe Lieberman runs around South Florida telling Jewish voters that they should vote for McCain because Obama isn't good for Israel.

The most recent blatant example of nakedly exploiting "dual loyalty" and "anti-Semitism" claims comes from Commentary's Jennifer Rubin. Rubin was one of those most viciously attacking Klein, accusing him last week of spouting what she called "the anti-Semitic argument of 'divided loyalties.'" Yet today -- barely a week later -- Rubin has a long Op-Ed in The Jerusalem Post which is probably the most unabashed expression of this "dual loyalty" argument that I've seen in quite some time.

Her column is devoted to arguing that many American Jews -- despite their commitment to political liberalism -- are (justifiably) reluctant to vote for Obama because "some Jews are incapable of deluding themselves that Obama would be the most resolute candidate in defending Israel." What is that if not an argument that American Jewish voters cast their votes in American elections -- and should do so -- based on what is best for Israel, i.e. for he who is "the most resolute candidate in defending Israel"?

In fact, Rubin's entire column is devoted to the explicit claim that Obama is insufficiently devoted to Israel's interests and, therefore, many American Jews are rightly skeptical of his fitness to be the American President:

The Obama defenders are irked that not all Jews accept at face value Obama's expressions of devotion to Israel and commitment to her security. . . . Many Jewish Obama doubters are convinced that Israel faces a true existential threat unlike any in 35 years. . . . The Obama skeptics do not for a moment believe that Obama, in the face of domestic and international pressure similar to what Nixon faced, would rise to the occasion at a critical moment in Israel's history and "tell them to send everything that can fly" . . . .

AND IF any further proof were needed, Obama's actions with regard to the Kyl-Lieberman Amendment, the measure to classify the Iranian National Guard as a terrorist organization, should settle the question of Obama's intestinal fortitude when it comes to Israel. . . . Once his nomination was secured, Obama told those assembled at the AIPAC convention that he supported classification of the Iranian National Guard as a terrorist organization, a move he well understood was important to Israel's security and to AIPAC's members. Yet under just a smidgen of political pressure during the primary race, he had not been able to muster the will to support a modest measure which inured to Israel's benefit.

Indeed the temptation to believe in Obama's bland promises of support for Israel is a tempting one for liberal Jews. If they can convince themselves that he will be "fine on Israel," no conflict arises between their liberal impulses and their concern for Israel. The urge to believe is a powerful thing, especially when the alternative is an intellectual or moral quandary. . . .

BUT SOME Jews are incapable of deluding themselves that Obama would be the most resolute candidate in defending Israel. . . . And that is why these obstinate Obama skeptics, some even after a lifetime of Democratic voting, will not pull the lever for him. For them some things rank higher than even the top items on the liberal political agenda. The risk is, in their minds, too great that when Israel needs help the most, Obama will buckle and Israel will be crushed.

It's just not possible to find a more explicit accusation of "dual loyalty" than Rubin repeatedly makes in her column. She just claims over and over that American Jewish voters are guided in their political choices by what is best for Israel -- exactly what she called an "anti-semitic argument" when made by Klein -- and she expressly insists that the American President be devoted to promoting Israeli interests, and that this is what American Jewish voters care about. That's the "dual loyalty" argument in its purest form.

But because this claim is put in service of advancing a right-wing agenda -- namely, an attack on Obama and support for a hard-line policy towards Iran -- it's deemed perfectly acceptable. And therein lies the most important point.

"Anti-semitism" accusations have been cynically exploited for so long by right-wing advocates as a bludgeon to silence debates over Middle East policy and for cheap political gain that the accusation has become trivialized to the point of irrelevance. Most ironically of all, the ADL -- whose ostensible central mission is to battle the trivialization of anti-Semitism and Nazism -- has played a leading role in this degradation, constantly exploiting its once-credible imprimatur in highly politicized ways which have nothing to do with real anti-semitism (such as Klein's perfectly legitimate commentary) and everything to do with promoting a hard-line policy in the Middle East and against Iran which is now one of the ADL's top priorities.

Smearing people as anti-Semites for cheap political gain is repellent in its own right and merits a response. But this tactic is particularly dangerous now, as the pressure is obviously being ratcheted up in numerous circles to pursue a far more bellicose policy towards Iran. Responding to the types of disgusting smears that are in Rubin's column and many other places, Obama not only appeared before AIPAC last month and vowed that "the danger from Iran is grave, it is real, and my goal will be to eliminate this threat"; that Iran's "Quds force has rightly been labeled a terrorist organization"; and "I will do everything in my power to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon," but also, when asked last week by a Fox News host to play a "word association game" whereby he should say the first word that comes into his mind, Obama -- when the word was "Iran" -- responded as follows: "threat."

Whether Iran is really a threat to the U.S. (as opposed to Israel) is an absolutely critical matter to examine. It's just not tolerable to allow polemicists from Commentary and Weekly Standard to run around using the "dual loyalty" argument and "anti-semitism" smear to try to manipulate American Jews into voting for McCain and supporting hard-line policies toward Iran, while simultaneously screaming "anti-Semite" at those who argue that an attack on Iran would serve (and is motivated by) Israeli interests, not America's interests. That is a perfectly legitimate issue -- a central issue -- to be freely discussed.

Like everyone else, I don't know whether there is really any serious intent in the Bush administration to initiate some sort of attack on Iran (many very credible analysts highly doubt it will happen). But the risk is substantial enough -- and the situation is dangerous enough -- that free and open debate about that topic is critical. A prerequisite to such debate is preventing war-hungry, right-wing advocates from employing duplicitous and manipulative claims of "anti-semitism" and "dual loyalty" to stifle such discussions and intimidate opponents of a war-seeking approach to Iran.

UPDATE: In Salon today, Gregory Levey has an excellent article examining the role Israel is playing in the presidential election and the Joe-Lieberman-led effort to smear Obama as "anti-Israel" among Jewish voters. Levey correctly points out that "the vast majority of American Jews don't cast their votes based on considerations for Israel" -- a fact confirmed by a recent poll from the nonpartisan Israel Project -- but some extremely ugly tactics are being hauled out by the Right directed at those who do.

UPDATE II: Whenever I write about this issue, I typically avoid the term "dual loyalty" or "divided loyalty" not because they're inaccurate -- they're not -- but because they have some ugly connotations and ugly history. Here, Klein used the term "divided loyalty," and ultimately, it can hardly be described as inaccurate based on the Right's own advocacy -- i.e., if an American voter is casting votes based on what's best for another country, it's hard to argue that it isn't "dual loyalty." As Klein notes today, "[Jennifer] Rubin's description of the interests of American Jews is an embarrassment that plays into the worst antisemitic stereotypes," in that she explicitly calls for American Jews to vote in a U.S. election based on Israel. What is she advocating if not "dual loyalty" or "divided loyalty"?

I think the broader issue is that there's nothing inherently wrong with "dual loyalty." Countless voting blocs in America possess it to one degree or another -- Irish-Americans, Mexican-Americans, Cuban-Americans, Catholics, Christians, Muslims, naturalized citizens of all sorts and those who identify their heritage with another country. In some sense, "dual loyalty" or even "multiple loyalties" is a perfectly benign aspect of America's heterogeneity, the fact that people are "American" and also other things. The point isn't that there's anything inherently wrong with or unusual about "dual loyalty" in this sense. There isn't.

What's destructive here is the way the "dual loyalty" manifests -- the policy desires it produces. And to the extent it plays a role in policy debates -- as it does in all sorts of debates, and certainly in debates over the Middle East -- it ought to be something that people are free to acknowledge and discuss without being defamed and smeared.

Glenn Greenwald

Article Home (http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/07/02/israel_iran/index.html)

Truth Warrior
07-03-2008, 03:18 PM
The Ashkenazim are NOT semitic. ;)

Carole
07-03-2008, 03:48 PM
The corporate government will not be satisfied until it gets its hands on Iran's oil which is ten or more times what Iraq has. They are very threatened by Iran's new oil bourse and do not want to see cheap oil anywhere in the world. It is frankly, none of our business (America's). Too bad if Iran undercuts other oil. Result would only be to bring prices down, something the corporatocracy of America does not want to happen.

I am in full agreement with Iran that they have every right to have nuclear capability, peaceful or otherwise. They are surrounded by countries that already have it. And it is their oil and their economy to do with as they choose.

I am sick of America bullying other countries.

America needs to shut up the war and fear mongering and start talking with Iran in a reasonable manner and stay out of their business. I hope Iran does not back down.

I hope Chavez does not back down ever also. He was democratically elected and now 8 more South American countires have done the same. The only puppet left is our puppet in Columbia in that part of the world. Maybe Ahmadinejad, who is willing to have diplomacy, will surprise people if stubborn American policy would stop its threats.

Truth Warrior
07-03-2008, 03:57 PM
World Proved Reserves of Oil and Natural Gas, Most Recent Estimates
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/reserves.html

tonesforjonesbones
07-03-2008, 05:15 PM
wonder how long this thread will be here? tones

tonesforjonesbones
07-03-2008, 05:15 PM
I just posted on one of the Israel threads less than an hour ago and it's disappeared...maybe i'm not understanding how these new threads work. tones

tonesforjonesbones
07-03-2008, 05:16 PM
If we don't discuss the bolsheviks, zionist Israel issues...there will be no resolutions to our problems in the middle east. TONES

Alex Libman
07-03-2008, 05:28 PM
The Ashkenazim are NOT semitic. ;)

Based on my research of my own heritage, it seems like Ashkenazi (Central/Eastern European Jews) do have some semitic blood in them, but not as much as most Eastern Arabs (incl Iraq).

The word "antisemitism" is still FUBAR though.

DirtMcGirt
07-03-2008, 06:24 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N294FMDok98&eurl=http://gawker.com/tag/the-jews/?i=5021124&t=the-video-the-jewish-cabal-didnt-want-you-to-see

Not sure this is on topic but this was an interesting video concerning "Jewish lobby"

tonesforjonesbones
07-03-2008, 09:17 PM
Maybe over time the ashkanazi's intermarried, but basically I dont think so because they converted. I don't understand why some jewish folks get upset about the history of the khazars...to the point that they even deny it . They converted...that's history. You have to remember 10 of the 12 tribes were dispersed many years before Jesus came along..then after that ...the 2 tribes that were left, the tribe of Ben and the tribe of Judah, were run off by the romans.. they went to babylon and we dont' know where they went from there. the khazars converted around 740 ad...and there were jewish people trading and traveling up that way..that's part of the reason the khazars converted. They liked those jewish merchants and travelers...and it was also for political reasons. The christians AND the muslims were trying to pull the khazars to their respective religions..and that king onsidered both were from judaesm...so he picked that. It's quite an interesting history. TONES

Truth Warrior
07-03-2008, 09:50 PM
Based on my research of my own heritage, it seems like Ashkenazi (Central/Eastern European Jews) do have some semitic blood in them, but not as much as most Eastern Arabs (incl Iraq).

The word "antisemitism" is still FUBAR though.
Khazars? :rolleyes: http://www.khazaria.com/

tonesforjonesbones
07-03-2008, 10:03 PM
Wow..what a great site! thanks! tones

Truth Warrior
07-03-2008, 10:31 PM
Wow..what a great site! thanks! tones

You're welcome. :)

tonesforjonesbones
07-04-2008, 12:05 AM
I am reading The 13th Tribe..excellent history of a forgotten land...nothing negative there at all, just history. tones

Alex Libman
07-04-2008, 12:12 AM
Completely debunked by genetics.

Truth Warrior
07-04-2008, 12:21 AM
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i304/Truth_Warrior/NKIantisem_small.jpg

tonesforjonesbones
07-04-2008, 08:52 AM
Ahhh but who's debunking it? lol. tones

tonesforjonesbones
07-04-2008, 08:53 AM
If the originial tribes were dispersed thousands of years ago...what "genetics" is there to trace? Nobody knows where they are. tones

revolutionman
07-04-2008, 05:11 PM
everyone who points out the obvious alterior motive of Zionists operating in America on behalf of Israel is an antisemite. a biggot that no one should listen to and everyone should ignore.

This may seem insensitive, but some times i can't help wondering if this behavior on the part of the zionist Jews is what inspired the antisemitism that lead to the nazi genocide.

Just incase anyone gets it in their peanut head, I'll put it out there.

I hate plenty of people, but I say with great pride that I don't hate any of those people because of their religion or race, or nationality.

If calling some Jews on their bullshit makes me an antisemite, then i guess I'll be an antisemite. But you should know, that I know that there are many Jews that are American first and love America and with much respect to their faith, they put the welfare of this nation before the foreign nation of Israel. I will always be open, receptive, and warm to such people.

tonesforjonesbones
07-04-2008, 09:44 PM
Yes..I consider it a political agenda rather than a religious issue. There is no justification for the USA to be "joined at the hip" to any nation. This crazy devotion to Israel is causing a lot of grief. Israel is not the 51st state! tones

lucius
07-05-2008, 10:40 AM
Reference: Of the Subcommittee of the United States House of Representatives investigating the Civil Service Commission, 1947 (the Anti-Defamation League's "Black List" case; U.S. Government Printing Office, 1948).

"The senior officer of that department of the United States Civil Service Commission which was charged with investigating applicants for employment appeared before the sub-committee on subpoena. As the official directly responsible, he said the files were secret ones, the existence of which had only just become known to him (presumably, when he received the subpoena). The only files theretofore known to him were those normally kept by his department; they recorded persons investigated who for various reasons were to be rejected if they sought employment. He had ascertained that the secret files contained "750,000 cards" and had been prepared in the Commission's New York office (his own headquarters office was in Washington), and that copies of the cards had been sent to and incorporated in the files of every branch office of the Civil Service Commission throughout the United States. He said he had no power to produce the secret files; power to do this lay solely with the three Civil Service Commissioners (the very heads, under the president, of the Civil Service).

These Commissioners (a Mr. Mitchell, Mr. Flemming and Miss Perkins), then subpoenaed, refused to produce the files, stating that the president had forbidden this (the secret files had been introduced under President Roosevelt; this order not to divulge came from President Truman). Thereon Mr. Hoffmann said, "This is the first time I have ever heard the acknowledgment that we have in this country a Gestapo".

The Commissioners made no protest. Mr. Hoffmann then asked if persons who had no intention even of applying for a Civil Service post were black-listed. The senior Commissioner, Mr. Mitchell, confirmed that this was the case, thus explicitly admitting that the black list was of unlimited range. Mr. Hoffmann said, "Then it has nothing to do with the immediate case of a person applying for a job?", and Mr. Mitchell agreed. Mr. Hoffmann continued, "You claim the right to list in your files the names of anyone and everyone in this country? Is that not correct?" and the three Commissioners silently assented.

The investigators discovered that in June and July of 1943 alone (that is, in the confusion-period of a great war) 487,033 cards had been added to the secret files, this work having occupied scores of clerks. A Congressman reminded the Commissioners that in the very year (1943) when these secret cards were incorporated the Civil Service Commission had specifically forbidden its investigators even to ask questions about any applicant's Communist associations (the policy generally introduced by President Roosevelt). The Commissioners showed great anxiety to avoid discussing the part played by the Anti-Defamation League in this affair and repeatedly evaded questions on that point.

The official report, so astonishing by earlier standards, shows that the A.D.L. was in a position secretly to introduce into official records defamatory dossiers, quickly extensible into secret police files covering the entire country. This was recognizably an attempt to gain control of the American Civil Service and to make loyalty, by the earlier standards, a disqualification. As no assurance of remedial action was obtained, the result of this public investigation may be compared with a surgical examination by doctors who, having opened the patient and found a malignant growth near a vital organ, declare that they have order not to remove it and sew up the incision. Thus the unhealthy condition remained."

From Douglas Reed's 'The Controversy of Zion', p.241 in pdf, p. 350-351 in book.

Here is a fair description here (http://www.savethemales.ca/210802.html) of the book from a former Zionist.