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Salamando
08-27-2007, 10:48 PM
I don't want to discuss any conspiracy theories or anything like that. I just want to see the Federal Reserve in an economic light. What exactly is the purpose of the federal reserve? (please try to avoid any bias)

cjhowe
08-27-2007, 10:51 PM
Their purpose is to eat children...

For real though, their mission on their website is pretty clear about what their role is: http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/mission/default.htm
* conducting the nation’s monetary policy by influencing the monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates
* supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation’s banking and financial system and to protect the credit rights of consumers
* maintaining the stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets
* providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation’s payments system


essentially to be the bank of last resort and the credit card company of Congress.

Broadlighter
08-28-2007, 01:15 AM
My principal gripe with the Federal Reserve is that it is a private corporation that does all the things that CJHowe said in his post - for profit.

Chester Copperpot
08-28-2007, 01:18 AM
I don't want to discuss any conspiracy theories or anything like that. I just want to see the Federal Reserve in an economic light. What exactly is the purpose of the federal reserve? (please try to avoid any bias)

The federal reserve sells America money... currency.. All the paper dollars you see as well as all the electronic credits you dont see.

This is how it works

Federal Reserve acquires $100 Bill for 4 cents. They then turn around and sell that $100 Bill to the Govt for $100 Face amount.. The country pays in Treasury bonds, spends its money, but then still has an outstanding debt for the $100.

Thats pretty much it in a nutshell. Thats why under the current banking system its almost impossible to pay off the debt.

G-khan
08-28-2007, 01:19 AM
I don't want to discuss any conspiracy theories or anything like that. I just want to see the Federal Reserve in an economic light. What exactly is the purpose of the federal reserve? (please try to avoid any bias)

Here is a very good video you can watch that explains our monetary system and who runs it...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279

cjhowe
08-28-2007, 08:16 AM
My principal gripe with the Federal Reserve is that it is a private corporation that does all the things that CJHowe said in his post - for profit.

Absent the Federal Reserve Act, the free market would allow such an institution to exist, it is essentially what J.P. Morgan already was in 1907. The only thing the Fed does that the free market would not allow for is to be a credit card company to Congress.

cjhowe
08-28-2007, 08:19 AM
The federal reserve sells America money... currency.. All the paper dollars you see as well as all the electronic credits you dont see.

This is how it works

Federal Reserve acquires $100 Bill for 4 cents. They then turn around and sell that $100 Bill to the Govt for $100 Face amount.. The country pays in Treasury bonds, spends its money, but then still has an outstanding debt for the $100.

Thats pretty much it in a nutshell. Thats why under the current banking system its almost impossible to pay off the debt.

No, it's not. I can't even tell you where you got off on the wrong track, because your train ever got on the right track.

Kregener
08-28-2007, 08:26 AM
The Federal Reserve teaches the blind to pick flowers and play harps.

Johnnybags
08-28-2007, 08:28 AM
is a congressional debit card, ushering in an inflation tax vs increasing income tax, its also a counterfeiter of last resort to the elite, in case their investments go sour, and finally, it is a manipulator of markets and statistics to spoonfeed the masses by directing investment. The best way to look at it is its a maintainer and insurer of the status quo for the elite and politicians on your back. The only real power they have is legalized theft of your buying power.

sickmint79
08-28-2007, 09:07 AM
i have looked into this too, there is a lot of misinformation and misperceptions on how it works. personally i don't think it is flawed because parts are privately owned, i think it's flawed because of the keyensian economics behind it; instead of the free market determining the value of money, the government is trying to manipulate and control it through fiscal and monetary policy.

"money as debt" on google video is a great video and free from conspiracy.
"Money, Banking and the Federal Reserve" put out by the mises institute is also a great video.

fiat empire i don't recall, think it was ok.
money masters is older, longer, and has some conspiracy stuff mixed in. goes over a lot more history too, which i liked a lot. the conspiratorial stuff is interesting too. certainly no belief is required in conspiracy to believe the current system is mismanaged at best, or a gauranteed failure at worst.

fsk
08-28-2007, 09:31 AM
If you want a detailed critique of the Federal Reserve, see my blog, especially the bits on the Compound Interest Paradox. I'm not going to repeat my posts here.

SeanEdwards
08-28-2007, 09:37 AM
I don't want to discuss any conspiracy theories or anything like that. I just want to see the Federal Reserve in an economic light. What exactly is the purpose of the federal reserve? (please try to avoid any bias)

The main raison d'etre is to be the lender of last resort. The idea is that by integrating the banking system they can prevent bank runs and panics by standing ready to infuse cash into the banking system.

Of course, the unintended consequence is to facilitate bad speculation and unscrupulous banking practices, since bankers know that no matter how flagrantly irresponsible they behave, the fed is on tap to distribute the cost of their errors onto the American taxpayer.

cjhowe
08-28-2007, 09:37 AM
i have looked into this too, there is a lot of misinformation and misperceptions on how it works. personally i don't think it is flawed because parts are privately owned, i think it's flawed because of the keyensian economics behind it; instead of the free market determining the value of money, the government is trying to manipulate and control it through fiscal and monetary policy.

"money as debt" on google video is a great video and free from conspiracy.
"Money, Banking and the Federal Reserve" put out by the mises institute is also a great video.

fiat empire i don't recall, think it was ok.
money masters is older, longer, and has some conspiracy stuff mixed in. goes over a lot more history too, which i liked a lot. the conspiratorial stuff is interesting too. certainly no belief is required in conspiracy to believe the current system is mismanaged at best, or a gauranteed failure at worst.

The part that goes against the free market is the part that benefits those conspiracy theorists in their everyday lives. If it were free market, there would be no goal of maximum employment, only maximum profits. At the same time, given a long enough outlook, maximum employment should lead to maximum profits. However, the free market generally prioritizes shorter time period outlooks.

micahnelson
08-28-2007, 09:48 AM
http://www.amazon.com/Creature-Jekyll-Island-Federal-Reserve/dp/0912986212

This is a great book on the matter. Ron Paul is quoted on the back of it supporting the book. Some of the conclusions as to the "Why's" get into the idea of a New World Order, but the facts about banking, central banks, and currency are all there. The book will be a big eye opener.

Chester Copperpot
08-28-2007, 09:52 AM
No, it's not. I can't even tell you where you got off on the wrong track, because your train ever got on the right track.

You can go check out the term "monetizing the debt" because that is how it works.

Granted, I may have simplified the process so people can understand it, but that is esentially how it work.

The govt pays $100 for a $100 Bill that only costs the Federal Reserve 4 cents.

and the process is what Ive already said.

ARealConservative
08-28-2007, 09:54 AM
I don't want to discuss any conspiracy theories or anything like that. I just want to see the Federal Reserve in an economic light. What exactly is the purpose of the federal reserve? (please try to avoid any bias)

It was to solve a legitimate problem with the gold standard, namely that the lack of new discovery of gold was preventing the economy from growing.

Furthermore, prices in a gold standard are deflationary in nature, which also stifles economic growth. Real infaltion of 3-4% is very beneficial for the economy (but like we all know - we aren't at 3-4% inflation - that is government fudged numbers).

If you take out the human element of corruption - a fiat economy will always outperform a commodity based currency. Keep that in mind when debating people - the issue is corruptability of the fiat currency - not fiat currency itself.

cjhowe
08-28-2007, 10:24 AM
You can go check out the term "monetizing the debt" because that is how it works.

Granted, I may have simplified the process so people can understand it, but that is esentially how it work.

The govt pays $100 for a $100 Bill that only costs the Federal Reserve 4 cents.

and the process is what Ive already said.

No, you are confusing issues of printing and engraving with issues of debt.

Chester Copperpot
08-28-2007, 04:09 PM
No, you are confusing issues of printing and engraving with issues of debt.

Im not sure what you mean by that but. The Federal Reserve buy dollar bills from the Bureau of Engraving and Printing for 4 cents per bill. They then sell those bills to the govt for face amount in exchange for govt securitites.

Technically the 'printing' of the money doesnt cause debt to go up. However the 'issuance' of the money does. Before that money goes into circulation there must be an equivalent amount of debt created. the owner of th new debt is the federal reserve.

Therefore a $100 Bill that the federal reserve gets to acquire for 4 cents, it then turns around and sells for $100. It is quite a racket.

cjhowe
08-28-2007, 04:35 PM
Im not sure what you mean by that but. The Federal Reserve buy dollar bills from the Bureau of Engraving and Printing for 4 cents per bill. They then sell those bills to the govt for face amount in exchange for govt securitites.

Technically the 'printing' of the money doesnt cause debt to go up. However the 'issuance' of the money does. Before that money goes into circulation there must be an equivalent amount of debt created. the owner of th new debt is the federal reserve.

Therefore a $100 Bill that the federal reserve gets to acquire for 4 cents, it then turns around and sells for $100. It is quite a racket.

Everyone likes to try to mix three very separate issues when they attack the Fed to mislead people as to the extent of the problem. It's a problem that should be dealt with, but it's not a 50 foot monster. The three issues that people mix are.

1. Cost of printing/engraving
2. Fractional Reserve Lending
3. Purchase and sale of Treasury Notes (U.S. debt)

1. This is such a nonsensical thing to focus on, almost like complaining to IBM that they purchase pens and pencils. This has absolutely nothing to do with debt or inflation.

2. Fractional Reserve Lending will occur in any commodity market where the commodity is perfectly fungible. Just look at the futures market. The Fed sets a reserve requirement that should be adequate provided JAMA doesn't release a study saying that bathing in Federal Reserve notes cure cancer. At the same the same time, this can produce inflation because it allows for too many dollars to chase too few goods.

3. This is a simple exchange of the u.s. government promising future tax receipts for federal reserve notes to spend on programs.

Lord Xar
08-28-2007, 04:46 PM
Everyone likes to try to mix three very separate issues when they attack the Fed to mislead people as to the extent of the problem. It's a problem that should be dealt with, but it's not a 50 foot monster. The three issues that people mix are.

1. Cost of printing/engraving
2. Fractional Reserve Lending
3. Purchase and sale of Treasury Notes (U.S. debt)

1. This is such a nonsensical thing to focus on, almost like complaining to IBM that they purchase pens and pencils. This has absolutely nothing to do with debt or inflation.

2. Fractional Reserve Lending will occur in any commodity market where the commodity is perfectly fungible. Just look at the futures market. The Fed sets a reserve requirement that should be adequate provided JAMA doesn't release a study saying that bathing in Federal Reserve notes cure cancer. At the same the same time, this can produce inflation because it allows for too many dollars to chase too few goods.

3. This is a simple exchange of the u.s. government promising future tax receipts for federal reserve notes to spend on programs.

? Call me crazy but aren't the latter posters views completely relevant and it is you who is mixing things up?

In regards to point #1, my feeling was that the "cost to print/engrave" is $4, YET they are selling at $100. Its not like the example you gave because IBM does not function in the realm of pens and pencils to set precedence for its program. The value of the printed money is brought up, in my eyes, to lend example that a 'business' is set up to print money with NO value other than the paper it is printed on and sells it to the government. I concede I might be off base here but that is what i got out of it.

cjhowe
08-28-2007, 05:07 PM
? Call me crazy but aren't the latter posters views completely relevant and it is you who is mixing things up?

In regards to point #1, my feeling was that the "cost to print/engrave" is $4, YET they are selling at $100. Its not like the example you gave because IBM does not function in the realm of pens and pencils to set precedence for its program. The value of the printed money is brought up, in my eyes, to lend example that a 'business' is set up to print money with NO value other than the paper it is printed on and sells it to the government. I concede I might be off base here but that is what i got out of it.

A $100 Federal Reserve Note is a $100 liability to the Federal Reserve and a 4 cent expense. People like Mike use misleading statements to ignore the Federal Reserve's liability.

Chester Copperpot
08-28-2007, 08:36 PM
Everyone likes to try to mix three very separate issues when they attack the Fed to mislead people as to the extent of the problem. It's a problem that should be dealt with, but it's not a 50 foot monster. The three issues that people mix are.

1. Cost of printing/engraving
2. Fractional Reserve Lending
3. Purchase and sale of Treasury Notes (U.S. debt)

1. This is such a nonsensical thing to focus on, almost like complaining to IBM that they purchase pens and pencils. This has absolutely nothing to do with debt or inflation.

2. Fractional Reserve Lending will occur in any commodity market where the commodity is perfectly fungible. Just look at the futures market. The Fed sets a reserve requirement that should be adequate provided JAMA doesn't release a study saying that bathing in Federal Reserve notes cure cancer. At the same the same time, this can produce inflation because it allows for too many dollars to chase too few goods.

3. This is a simple exchange of the u.s. government promising future tax receipts for federal reserve notes to spend on programs.

Im throwing the bullshit flag on this one everybody.


Dude, you honestly cant be a Ron Paul supporter and NOT understand the implications of these bold faced words.. SURE it is just a 'simple exchange'. But it is an exchange where the federal reserve gets to create money out of thin air and 'EXCHANGE' that for real govt debt.

The country is should make its own money and NOT have to buy these 'money' from a private bank at face amount. C'mon man. You have got to be kidding me.

Chester Copperpot
08-28-2007, 08:37 PM
? Call me crazy but aren't the latter posters views completely relevant and it is you who is mixing things up?

In regards to point #1, my feeling was that the "cost to print/engrave" is $4, YET they are selling at $100. Its not like the example you gave because IBM does not function in the realm of pens and pencils to set precedence for its program. The value of the printed money is brought up, in my eyes, to lend example that a 'business' is set up to print money with NO value other than the paper it is printed on and sells it to the government. I concede I might be off base here but that is what i got out of it.

The cost to print is NOT $4 but 4 CENTS....just fyi..

Chester Copperpot
08-28-2007, 08:39 PM
A $100 Federal Reserve Note is a $100 liability to the Federal Reserve and a 4 cent expense. People like Mike use misleading statements to ignore the Federal Reserve's liability.

ITS NOT A REAL LIABILITY BECAUSE THEY CAN MAKE MONEY WHENEVER THEY WANT. WHAT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND.. THEY MAKE ALL THE MONEY THEY NEED.

fsk
08-28-2007, 09:27 PM
Im throwing the bullshit flag on this one everybody.


I agree. It seems bizarre to me that a Ron Paul supporter is so aggressively defending the Federal Reserve.

Ron Paul has clearly stated that he wants to eliminate the Federal Reserve.

I consider that to be one of Ron Paul's best ideas: the elimination of the Federal Reserve and the elimination of the income tax. A large Federal government and excessive government regulation are impossible without the Federal Reserve and income tax.

The Federal Reserve, the income tax, and government regulations combine to effectively enslave every US citizen. That's the primary reason the USA resembles a communist dictatorship more than a truly free market.

You can't say you support both a free market and the Federal Reserve. They are incompatible. You can't have a central bank and a free market at the same time.



A $100 Federal Reserve Note is a $100 liability to the Federal Reserve and a 4 cent expense. People like Mike use misleading statements to ignore the Federal Reserve's liability.


When the USA was on a gold standard, a Federal Reserve Note represented a liability to produce a specific amount of gold. With fiat money, a Federal Reserve Note is merely a piece of paper with a number printed on it.

cjhowe
08-28-2007, 09:41 PM
ITS NOT A REAL LIABILITY BECAUSE THEY CAN MAKE MONEY WHENEVER THEY WANT. WHAT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND.. THEY MAKE ALL THE MONEY THEY NEED.

No need to yell. It is a real liability. As the U.S. government retires it's Treasury Bills and does not issue new ones, what are they retiring the T-Bills with? A: Federal Reserve Notes. The U.S. Government gets its liability back and the Fed gets its liability back. Since owing yourself money is no longer a liability...poof, the liability disappears.

If the Fed prints up more money out of thin air and inflates the money supply, the value of the Federal Reserve Note decreases (through inflation) and the U.S. government is paying less value to retire its debt.

How is this any different than IBM issuing a promissory note? The only difference between the two is that IBM notes don't have the full faith and credit of the United States.

You can say "oh but a Federal Reserve Note doesn't promise anything". Well, it does. It promises the redemption for legal money. Legal money just happens to be Federal Reserve Notes. If you're unhappy with that redemption, because it is legal money, you are free to exchange it for something that you value more than the denomination printed on it.

Giving the argument that the Fed is acting like a quick-change scam artist, exchanging four cents for a hundred bucks, makes one look foolish and allows people to completely miss the evil of the Fed. It's the equivalent of saying to someone that is holding a gun on you, "oh, if looks could kill". His looks won't kill you, but the gun in his hand just might. The evil of the Fed is not a quick-change scam, it's that they provide easy access to credit to a government who's only role is to protect our freedoms. You don't need credit to protect our freedoms.

Because Congress has access to the credit, they can start wars that make us unprotected, they become targets of special interests that don't wish to compete in the marketplace, and they undermine the efficiency of the free market, by creating a market for goods and services that people have no need or desire for. On top of all of this, they have to eventually steal from you to pay their debts.

cjhowe
08-28-2007, 09:49 PM
I agree. It seems bizarre to me that a Ron Paul supporter is so aggressively defending the Federal Reserve.

Ron Paul has clearly stated that he wants to eliminate the Federal Reserve.

I consider that to be one of Ron Paul's best ideas: the elimination of the Federal Reserve and the elimination of the income tax. A large Federal government and excessive government regulation are impossible without the Federal Reserve and income tax.

The Federal Reserve, the income tax, and government regulations combine to effectively enslave every US citizen. That's the primary reason the USA resembles a communist dictatorship more than a truly free market.<snip>

We cross posted. You're absolutely correct on the reasons to eliminate the FIT and the Federal Reserve, there is no need to be deceptive.

Chester Copperpot
08-28-2007, 09:56 PM
No need to yell. It is a real liability. As the U.S. government retires it's Treasury Bills and does not issue new ones, what are they retiring the T-Bills with? A: Federal Reserve Notes. The U.S. Government gets its liability back and the Fed gets its liability back. Since owing yourself money is no longer a liability...poof, the liability disappears.

If the Fed prints up more money out of thin air and inflates the money supply, the value of the Federal Reserve Note decreases (through inflation) and the U.S. government is paying less value to retire its debt.

How is this any different than IBM issuing a promissory note? The only difference between the two is that IBM notes don't have the full faith and credit of the United States.

You can say "oh but a Federal Reserve Note doesn't promise anything". Well, it does. It promises the redemption for legal money. Legal money just happens to be Federal Reserve Notes. If you're unhappy with that redemption, because it is legal money, you are free to exchange it for something that you value more than the denomination printed on it.

Giving the argument that the Fed is acting like a quick-change scam artist, exchanging four cents for a hundred bucks, makes one look foolish and allows people to completely miss the evil of the Fed. It's the equivalent of saying to someone that is holding a gun on you, "oh, if looks could kill". His looks won't kill you, but the gun in his hand just might. The evil of the Fed is not a quick-change scam, it's that they provide easy access to credit to a government who's only role is to protect our freedoms. You don't need credit to protect our freedoms.

Because Congress has access to the credit, they can start wars that make us unprotected, they become targets of special interests that don't wish to compete in the marketplace, and they undermine the efficiency of the free market, by creating a market for goods and services that people have no need or desire for. On top of all of this, they have to eventually steal from you to pay their debts.

Your talk is cumbersome to most people.
I prefer to say more without talking so much. People understand things better when they dont sound like theyre coming out of a textbook.

The main evil of the Fed to me *IS* the creation of debt for their money.

If the country issues a US Note for $100. It costs the country 4 cents.
If the Federal reserve issues a Federal reserve note for $100 it costs the country $100 in debt.
Thats the evil. Right there.

fsk
08-28-2007, 10:09 PM
How is this any different than IBM issuing a promissory note? The only difference between the two is that IBM notes don't have the full faith and credit of the United States.


There is a huge difference. If IBM issues a promissory note, I can't take it to the government and use it to pay my income taxes. Federal Reserve Notes and income taxes go together. Even though Federal Reserve Notes are fiat money, it is the income tax that gives value to Federal Reserve Notes.

The Federal Reserve and the income tax are two interlinked evils. Without the income tax, Federal Reserve Notes are worthless as people switch to alternate monetary systems. Without the Federal Reserve, income taxes don't need to be as high, because the government would directly print and spend money.

The Federal Reserve is responsible for a massive transfer of wealth from individuals to the financial industry and large corporations. The income tax directly transfers a huge amount of wealth from individuals to the government.

Only the Federal Reserve has the power to create new money. Further, they only create new money via debt. Debt-based money has a fundamental structural flaw, which I call the Compound Interest Paradox in my blog. You don't really understand how evil the Federal Reserve is until you understand the Compound Interest Paradox. (Banks do have the power to create money, but they are constrained by the amount of reserves in the financial system and reserve ratio requirements. Only the Federal Reserve can create new reserves.)

cjhowe
08-28-2007, 10:26 PM
Your talk is cumbersome to most people.
I prefer to say more without talking so much. People understand things better when they dont sound like theyre coming out of a textbook.

The main evil of the Fed to me *IS* the creation of debt for their money.

If the country issues a US Note for $100. It costs the country 4 cents.
If the Federal reserve issues a Federal reserve note for $100 it costs the country $100 in debt.
Thats the evil. Right there.

Explaining why your statement is misleading is cumbersome, I would agree. But if you don't mislead and simply educate people that the Fed allows Congress easy access to credit to spend on things that are not the federal government's responsibility (bridges to nowhere, pre-emptive war, prescription drug plans, flood insurance for people who build their homes in areas prone to flooding), they get it.

Chester Copperpot
08-28-2007, 10:31 PM
Explaining why your statement is misleading is cumbersome, I would agree. But if you don't mislead and simply educate people that the Fed allows Congress easy access to credit to spend on things that are not the federal government's responsibility (bridges to nowhere, pre-emptive war, prescription drug plans, flood insurance for people who build their homes in areas prone to flooding), they get it.

Oh dont worry.. when I explain it to people not only do they get it.. but they never forget it.
http://www.wscoin.com/Images/PaperMoneyGIF/USPaper/US$2.00RedSealF.GIF

cjhowe
08-28-2007, 10:49 PM
Oh dont worry.. when I explain it to people not only do they get it.. but they never forget it.
http://www.wscoin.com/Images/PaperMoneyGIF/USPaper/US$2.00RedSealF.GIF

Yeah, and then they repeat your catch phrase to someone else without knowing exactly what you meant and they get laughed at and look like idiots because they can't back it up, so they stop talking about it and become apathetic again. If you arm them with the real and simple explanation of why the Fed is evil, people are going to agree with them and they'll be encouraged to speak out more.

Chester Copperpot
08-29-2007, 01:04 AM
Yeah, and then they repeat your catch phrase to someone else without knowing exactly what you meant and they get laughed at and look like idiots because they can't back it up, so they stop talking about it and become apathetic again. If you arm them with the real and simple explanation of why the Fed is evil, people are going to agree with them and they'll be encouraged to speak out more.

So I should say the federal reserve is bad because it allows politicians to build bridges to nowhere?? You think THAT is going to help somebody UNDERSTAND the debt monetization process?? I think not.

My explanation is crystal clear to everybody in less than a minute.. Especially when I show people the different money I keep on me just for such an encounter.

They all understand exactly how it works.. What do you work for a bank? You getting worried people are finding out the truth?

Thats how Ron Paul works man. People learn about the real issues. and cannot be swayed by mumbo jumbo logic

MJ777
08-29-2007, 07:42 AM
I think this was a great video, going indepth on the IRS and federal reserve. I thought it was well-documented and easy to understand for those of us who aren't economists! Ron Paul is interviewed in it. I highly recommend it.

Aaron Russo's America: Freedom to Fascism


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

sickmint79
08-29-2007, 08:48 AM
i agree with cjhowe, it is best to be well educated on this, and i don't think everyone in this thread is. i also don't think freedom to fascism does a very good job at explaining the fed or how our money works at all.

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 09:48 AM
So I should say the federal reserve is bad because it allows politicians to build bridges to nowhere?? You think THAT is going to help somebody UNDERSTAND the debt monetization process?? I think not.

My explanation is crystal clear to everybody in less than a minute.. Especially when I show people the different money I keep on me just for such an encounter.

They all understand exactly how it works.. What do you work for a bank? You getting worried people are finding out the truth?

Thats how Ron Paul works man. People learn about the real issues. and cannot be swayed by mumbo jumbo logic

You've just proven my point. That Congress authorized a bridge to nowhere to be paid for by taxpayers SHOULD make you livid. However, you've created alarmist relativity that compared to the Federal Reserve stealing 99.96% of the assets they hold, a bridge to nowhere isn't so bad.
I've compared the problems of our day and the alarmists interpretation of these problems to a cockroach and an attack of a 50 foot monster in another thread. We know how to get rid of cockroaches (bad policy), we change it. We know how to get rid of the 50 foot monster, tanks planes and helicopters. What happens when we show up with tanks, planes and helicopters to get rid of cockroaches? A: Cockroaches survive.

beermotor
08-29-2007, 10:29 AM
The part that goes against the free market is the part that benefits those conspiracy theorists in their everyday lives. If it were free market, there would be no goal of maximum employment, only maximum profits. At the same time, given a long enough outlook, maximum employment should lead to maximum profits. However, the free market generally prioritizes shorter time period outlooks.


That's the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. Free Market has no goal of maximum employment? Gimme a break.

Free enterprise is the only guarantor OF maximum employment - because people engage in business and hire people, do work, sell products, and make money.

There is no monolithic "free market" prioritizing short time preferences ... what planet are you on?

I read through the rest of your posts and sort of get where you are coming from. But, if it's a semantics question, I don't see the point in caring. Ultimate Truth: Fractional Reserve Banking = Horrible Way to Run An Economy; Central Banking = Even Worse.

You can say a little inflation is "good" for the economy, but that statement just doesn't hold water. It's "good" for the bankers. It is bad for the poor. This is an equity issue, a MORAL issue.

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 10:46 AM
That's the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. Free Market has no goal of maximum employment? Gimme a break.

Greater employment may be a consequence of free markets, but it is not the GOAL. The Fed's GOAL on the other hand is maximum employment. This is similar to the Ron Paul v. the democrat candidacies. A Ron Paul candidacy is that greatness is a consequence of freedom, while the democrats candidacies are that greatness is the goal. Such benchmarks (greatness, maximum unemployment) are fickle creatures and usually cannot be obtained by trying obtain them directly, but rather they are obtained by creating the settings in which they thrive.


Free enterprise is the only guarantor OF maximum employment - because people engage in business and hire people, do work, sell products, and make money.

There is no monolithic "free market" prioritizing short time preferences ... what planet are you on?

That Wall Street is more concerned about next quarter's income numbers rather than the viability of a company, kind of shows that the free market generally takes a shorter term outlook.

fsk
08-29-2007, 11:02 AM
The Fed's GOAL on the other hand is maximum employment.


The Fed's goal is 5% unemployment. The explicitly state this from time to time.

The Fed lies and says that 0% unemployment is "inflationary". What is really happening with 0% unemployment is that workers start having bargaining power for higher wages, which is a situation the Fed wants to avoid.

If the unemployment rate starts to get too low, the Federal Reserve jacks up interest rates to "cool down the economy". Workers are laid off, the unemployment rate rises, and workers lose their bargaining power.



That Wall Street is more concerned about next quarter's income numbers rather than the viability of a company, kind of shows that the free market generally takes a shorter term outlook.


The USA is not a free market. It is a communist dictatorship. Wall Street is primarily concerned with the next quarter due to the structural flaws in the economic and political system.

MJ777
08-29-2007, 11:03 AM
"i also don't think freedom to fascism does a very good job at explaining the fed or how our money works at all."

Just what do you think was incorrect? And about "conspiracy theories", just because some are wrong doesn't mean there is no such thing as a conspiracy. Keeping an open mind and trying to discern the truth in any matter is important.

I am trying to become more educated about all this stuff, so I would like to know what was incorrect in the video. It seemed well-documented to me, with interviews, news reports, congressional and court records, etc.

Thanks!

nullvalu
08-29-2007, 11:08 AM
:eek: Very interesting EMERGENCY audio report yesterday from Weiss Research regarding current market conditions and the value of the US Dollar!!

http://images.moneyandmarkets.com/688a/75737-audio.html

MJ777
08-29-2007, 11:18 AM
The USA is not a free market. It is a communist dictatorship.

No, it's not communism. We're ruled by an oligarchy of corporate interests that own the media, buy most politicians and hide behide the secrecy of the Fed. Closer to Fascism. Just new boogeymen to use as an excuse to take away our rights and keep the masses afraid - like the vilification of the Jews in Nazi Germany.


"Although both communism and fascism are forms of totalitarianism, fascism does not demand state ownership of the means of production, nor is fascism committed to the achievement of economic equality."
The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition. Houghton Mifflin Company, 2005. 29 Aug. 2007. <Dictionary.com

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 11:31 AM
The Fed's goal is 5% unemployment. The explicitly state this from time to time.

The Fed lies and says that 0% unemployment is "inflationary". What is really happening with 0% unemployment is that workers start having bargaining power for higher wages, which is a situation the Fed wants to avoid.

If the unemployment rate starts to get too low, the Federal Reserve jacks up interest rates to "cool down the economy". Workers are laid off, the unemployment rate rises, and workers lose their bargaining power.



The USA is not a free market. It is a communist dictatorship. Wall Street is primarily concerned with the next quarter due to the structural flaws in the economic and political system.

5% of the work force is said to be transitionary. That meaning transitioning from one job to another. The reason for the transition can be a number of reason such as previous business failed, fired for incompetence, left because of inadequate pay or unfavourable work conditions, downsizing inefficiencies, etc. Inflation occurs when too many dollars chase too few goods. Anything, including labor, can become scarce. Labor in almost every single industry is the largest cost. If the largest cost undergoes inflationary pressures, what do you think the result is? A: INFLATION

ghemminger
08-29-2007, 11:34 AM
:eek: Very interesting EMERGENCY audio report yesterday from Weiss Research regarding current market conditions and the value of the US Dollar!!

http://images.moneyandmarkets.com/688a/75737-audio.html

Awsome audio - !!

ghemminger
08-29-2007, 11:36 AM
CLICKITTY CLICK CLICK CLICK (Not rated) 28-Aug-07 02:41 pm HAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

THIS IS GOING TO BE ONE HELLOVA RIDE!!!

A MOMENT OF SILENCE PLEASE...THERE WILL BE PLENTY OF SCREAMING ON THE WAY DOWN...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 11:38 AM
"i also don't think freedom to fascism does a very good job at explaining the fed or how our money works at all."

Just what do you think was incorrect? And about "conspiracy theories", just because some are wrong doesn't mean there is no such thing as a conspiracy. Keeping an open mind and trying to discern the truth in any matter is important.

I am trying to become more educated about all this stuff, so I would like to know what was incorrect in the video. It seemed well-documented to me, with interviews, news reports, congressional and court records, etc.

Thanks!

Further discussion on A:F2F will derail this thread. There is a thread http://ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=14161 that already discusses this.

Chester Copperpot
08-29-2007, 12:20 PM
You've just proven my point. That Congress authorized a bridge to nowhere to be paid for by taxpayers SHOULD make you livid. However, you've created alarmist relativity that compared to the Federal Reserve stealing 99.96% of the assets they hold, a bridge to nowhere isn't so bad.
I've compared the problems of our day and the alarmists interpretation of these problems to a cockroach and an attack of a 50 foot monster in another thread. We know how to get rid of cockroaches (bad policy), we change it. We know how to get rid of the 50 foot monster, tanks planes and helicopters. What happens when we show up with tanks, planes and helicopters to get rid of cockroaches? A: Cockroaches survive.

How do you know a bridge to nowhere DOESNT make me livid?

Again, to me THAT is not the problem. The problem is the federal reserve. That bridge costs the country $50 million one time... The federal reserve costs the country $2 BILLION a day.. so you tell ME which one is the bigger problem?

Why should I major in minor things?


I focus on the problem. I make it concise and succinct. Im starting to think after talking to you I should start my own blog on this so people have the benefit to understand the federal reserve problem in 1 minute, rather than have someone like you explain it to them and confuse them with minor issues.

Chester Copperpot
08-29-2007, 12:22 PM
i agree with cjhowe, it is best to be well educated on this, and i don't think everyone in this thread is. i also don't think freedom to fascism does a very good job at explaining the fed or how our money works at all.

Money, Banking, and the Federal Reserve is a much better teacher for learning about the federal reserve.. and its only about 40 minutes long.

Here's a thread for anybody interested. You will learn more in this movie about the banking system than if you went to college and got a degree in economics.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-466210540567002553

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 12:55 PM
How do you know a bridge to nowhere DOESNT make me livid?

Again, to me THAT is not the problem. The problem is the federal reserve. That bridge costs the country $50 million one time... The federal reserve costs the country $2 BILLION a day.. so you tell ME which one is the bigger problem?

Why should I major in minor things?


I focus on the problem. I make it concise and succinct. Im starting to think after talking to you I should start my own blog on this so people have the benefit to understand the federal reserve problem in 1 minute, rather than have someone like you explain it to them and confuse them with minor issues.

There you go misrepresenting again. Someone who accepts your misrepresenting at first is later comforted by it not being as bad as you said. Why do you want to offer this comfort? You tell them there's a 50 foot monster, they get all scared and when they show up and see a cockroach, they're like "oh, it's just a cockroach". Had you told them the first time "there's a cockroach!", they would have reacted, "OMG!!! a cockroach?!?!?!!! kill it!!"

There will be an estimated $160 billion in deficit spending for 2007 and $237 billion in interest payments. This comes out to $1.09 billion per day borrowed from ALL sources. This is all that you can contribute borrowing to "costing" the U.S. and it's all not attributable to the Fed. This number should freak people out but, because you said 2 billion, just for the Fed, it doesn't seem so bad. Ah, sweet comfort of relativism.

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 12:56 PM
Money, Banking, and the Federal Reserve is a much better teacher for learning about the federal reserve.. and its only about 40 minutes long.

Here's a thread for anybody interested. You will learn more in this movie about the banking system than if you went to college and got a degree in economics.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-466210540567002553

Do you have a degree in economics to make that assertion?

Salamando
08-29-2007, 06:11 PM
I'm with Cjhowe, the reason I made this thread is because I only had basic ideas and I didn't know enough to back it up. Even so, most of this stuff just flies over my head.

Chester Copperpot
08-29-2007, 06:35 PM
Do you have a degree in economics to make that assertion?

Dude, I dont need no stinking degree. Im an autodidact.

Salamando
08-29-2007, 06:43 PM
Dude, I dont need no stinking degree. Im an autodidact.

Since when could you get an STD from studying economics?

Chester Copperpot
08-29-2007, 06:53 PM
There you go misrepresenting again. Someone who accepts your misrepresenting at first is later comforted by it not being as bad as you said. Why do you want to offer this comfort? You tell them there's a 50 foot monster, they get all scared and when they show up and see a cockroach, they're like "oh, it's just a cockroach". Had you told them the first time "there's a cockroach!", they would have reacted, "OMG!!! a cockroach?!?!?!!! kill it!!"

There will be an estimated $160 billion in deficit spending for 2007 and $237 billion in interest payments. This comes out to $1.09 billion per day borrowed from ALL sources. This is all that you can contribute borrowing to "costing" the U.S. and it's all not attributable to the Fed. This number should freak people out but, because you said 2 billion, just for the Fed, it doesn't seem so bad. Ah, sweet comfort of relativism.

$237 Billion in interest for 2007 eh? But How can that be when it was alot more in 2006 and we never paid any debt off? Your figures are incorrect. Lets put aside the fact that we're borrowing actually $3 Billion a day for everything we use.

YOu keep "estimating" all you want. Meanwhile the IRS collects over $900 billion a year in personal income tax, and that money goes to the federal reserve.. so yeah we're getting ripped off more than $2 Billion a day.

Try and pull the wool over somebody else's eyes Houdini.. It wont be Ron Paul supporters thats fer sure.

Chester Copperpot
08-29-2007, 06:54 PM
Since when could you get an STD from studying economics?

Sal,

You study any topic for an hour a day, every day and youll have the equivalent of a masters degree in that topic in 4 years

Salamando
08-29-2007, 07:00 PM
Sal,

You study any topic for an hour a day, every day and youll have the equivalent of a masters degree in that topic in 4 years

Where did you study from if you don't mind me asking? I always end up researching random topics on the internet for hours but I never consistently research something like that.

Chester Copperpot
08-29-2007, 07:04 PM
Where did you study from if you don't mind me asking? I always end up researching random topics on the internet for hours but I never consistently research something like that.

Mostly internet and books. I know what you mean about the random topics that come up on the web, but when an issue affects you as personally as this one did, well you start getting an intensity to learn everything you can.


You can watch that video from the Mises Org. Money, Banking, and the Federal Reserve.. It will teach you alot in 40 minutes.... Itll go into a complete history of the entire banking system too.


Another good read is Andrew Jackson's 1832 Veto message to Congress on the 2nd Bank of the US. You can read that and learn alot of what the federal reserve is about.

If you want any links lemme know and Ill get em for you

fsk
08-29-2007, 09:00 PM
If you really want a good analysis of the evils of the Federal Reserve, you can read my blog. You don't really understand how evil the Federal Reserve is until you understand the Compound Interest Paradox.

J4ck
08-29-2007, 09:23 PM
The fed is pure evil...a decent human being can't even think about the things that they are doing every single day.

this is a pretty good movie to learn something about the system and it's history:

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-1583154561904832383&q=money+masters&total=1317&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

sickmint79
08-29-2007, 09:26 PM
You can say a little inflation is "good" for the economy, but that statement just doesn't hold water. It's "good" for the bankers. It is bad for the poor. This is an equity issue, a MORAL issue.

i don't think inflation is good for bankers either... i pay them back with dollars worth less.

sickmint79
08-29-2007, 09:31 PM
"i also don't think freedom to fascism does a very good job at explaining the fed or how our money works at all."

Just what do you think was incorrect? And about "conspiracy theories", just because some are wrong doesn't mean there is no such thing as a conspiracy. Keeping an open mind and trying to discern the truth in any matter is important.

I am trying to become more educated about all this stuff, so I would like to know what was incorrect in the video. It seemed well-documented to me, with interviews, news reports, congressional and court records, etc.

Thanks!

i find the conspiracy stuff around the fed quite interesting history, but regardless of whether it is true or not, the system itself is arguably flowed. as the CT will turn some people off i choose who to bring them up to, ie. my friends yes, my parents no.

as far as "incorrect" - i think it just oversimplifies the fed and focuses too much on the ct. iirc (saw it once, and a while back) it didn't mention fractional reserve banking at all? i found the "money as debt" and the von mises video both more revealing. there were still things i ididn't understand, took several threads at various places with people that understooked/backed the current system to try and figure some of that stuff out. money masters is very long and has very interesting history if you are into that stuff. old video but i liked it a lot.

fsk
08-29-2007, 09:31 PM
i don't think inflation is good for bankers either... i pay them back with dollars worth less.


Inflation is great for bankers. They're the ones who get first dibs on all the new money that's printed. They get to spend the newly printed money before everyone else sees prices rise.

Banks borrow from the Federal Reserve at 5.25% and loan that money out at 6-8%. Why should they care if inflation is actually 10% or more? They're still making a zero-effort profit.

sickmint79
08-29-2007, 09:39 PM
$237 Billion in interest for 2007 eh? But How can that be when it was alot more in 2006 and we never paid any debt off? Your figures are incorrect. Lets put aside the fact that we're borrowing actually $3 Billion a day for everything we use.

YOu keep "estimating" all you want. Meanwhile the IRS collects over $900 billion a year in personal income tax, and that money goes to the federal reserve.. so yeah we're getting ripped off more than $2 Billion a day.

Try and pull the wool over somebody else's eyes Houdini.. It wont be Ron Paul supporters thats fer sure.

dude, you're acting like a neocon about patriotism or the war.

i believe cjhowe is a ron paul supporter. he is not fighting your vote or support. he is fighting ignorance. i don't like the fed from what i understand but i'm the first to admit i'm still quite ignorant on how all of the cogs work. cjhowe am i correct in assuming you want to dump the fed?

even if not, it is still worthwhile to hear the contrary arguments of how it work, or how it should work. i don't think any ron paul supporters will be dissuaded here anyway. ron paul is worth voting for based on his principals and honesty alone.

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 09:40 PM
Dude, I dont need no stinking degree. Im an autodidact.

I'll refrain from knocking you on that and instead tell you a personal story. On the last day in the capstone course for my MBA our professor asked everyone what the number one thing they learned in their graduate studies. He had everyone write it down on a sheet of paper and pass it to the front. Fully seventy per cent of the people in the class without talking amongst ourselves answered
"I learned how much there is that I don't know."

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know. If there are any people on the forum that have a graduate degree (it should be 1 in 11 people), they'll confirm this. This is the difference between autodidact learning and higher level curriculum learning. You read one book on a topic or watch one movie and you can repeat the talking points put forth. Read fifteen credible books that contradict each other and see how consistent you can be while being true to your additional knowledge. You can repeat this evil view of the Fed because you've only taken in the evil viewpoint. There is so much that you don't even know that you don't know.

sickmint79
08-29-2007, 09:41 PM
Inflation is great for bankers. They're the ones who get first dibs on all the new money that's printed. They get to spend the newly printed money before everyone else sees prices rise.

Banks borrow from the Federal Reserve at 5.25% and loan that money out at 6-8%. Why should they care if inflation is actually 10% or more? They're still making a zero-effort profit.

the bank is not spending it and getting wealth though, the borrower is. i go get a mortgage for my house, *i* just created 250k through the bank, i'm the one benefitting from the value of those dollars *right now* - not the bank. by the time i do pay the bank back, they are worth less. put to an extreme, what if we have hyperinflation and silver i bought goes from 10/oz to 1000/oz? i sell off 250 oz and i'm done with that loan. inflation didn't help them at all in that scenario, it helped me!

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 09:48 PM
dude, you're acting like a neocon about patriotism or the war.

i believe cjhowe is a ron paul supporter. he is not fighting your vote or support. he is fighting ignorance. i don't like the fed from what i understand but i'm the first to admit i'm still quite ignorant on how all of the cogs work. cjhowe am i correct in assuming you want to dump the fed?

even if not, it is still worthwhile to hear the contrary arguments of how it work, or how it should work. i don't think any ron paul supporters will be dissuaded here anyway. ron paul is worth voting for based on his principals and honesty alone.

Yes, I want the Fed to be dumped. Congress should have to face the free market if it wants credit. At the same time, it shouldn't want credit.

Inflation power is given to the Fed because it has the t-bonds to fractionally reserve against. If Congress didn't have debt, then the Fed wouldn't have the assets to be as large of a factor in inflation as it is. However, everything else about the Fed would exist in a free market. That's what the alarmists forget.

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 09:50 PM
Inflation is great for bankers. They're the ones who get first dibs on all the new money that's printed. They get to spend the newly printed money before everyone else sees prices rise.

Banks borrow from the Federal Reserve at 5.25% and loan that money out at 6-8%. Why should they care if inflation is actually 10% or more? They're still making a zero-effort profit.

Except they're taking on the risk of default from the people they loan it to...foreclosure, bankruptcy, etc. It's not exactly zero-effort, as you say.

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 10:08 PM
$237 Billion in interest for 2007 eh? But How can that be when it was alot more in 2006 and we never paid any debt off? Your figures are incorrect. Lets put aside the fact that we're borrowing actually $3 Billion a day for everything we use.

YOu keep "estimating" all you want. Meanwhile the IRS collects over $900 billion a year in personal income tax, and that money goes to the federal reserve.. so yeah we're getting ripped off more than $2 Billion a day.

Try and pull the wool over somebody else's eyes Houdini.. It wont be Ron Paul supporters thats fer sure.

Another misrepresentation. That $900 billion is being held for the Treasury. It's not the Fed's revenue. The Fed's revenue was a palty 38 billion in 2006.

Chester Copperpot
08-29-2007, 10:24 PM
I'll refrain from knocking you on that and instead tell you a personal story. On the last day in the capstone course for my MBA our professor asked everyone what the number one thing they learned in their graduate studies. He had everyone write it down on a sheet of paper and pass it to the front. Fully seventy per cent of the people in the class without talking amongst ourselves answered
"I learned how much there is that I don't know."

The more you know, the more you know that you don't know. If there are any people on the forum that have a graduate degree (it should be 1 in 11 people), they'll confirm this. This is the difference between autodidact learning and higher level curriculum learning. You read one book on a topic or watch one movie and you can repeat the talking points put forth. Read fifteen credible books that contradict each other and see how consistent you can be while being true to your additional knowledge. You can repeat this evil view of the Fed because you've only taken in the evil viewpoint. There is so much that you don't even know that you don't know.

No, I had the typical learned viewpoint that is taught to students in economics classes. I had to RE-educate myself because I learned that I was taught incorrectly.

Case in point. If you read a nice friendly book (or open up Barrons) you will read how the Federal reserve was created to help fight inflation, etc.. Thats a complete lie because they are the reason we HAVE inflation. They make inflation. "fighting inflation" is just a ruse.

I understand what you mean with the viewpoints.. But this is math.. It is no more difficult than 2+2=4. It really isnt. Math and common sense.

Chester Copperpot
08-29-2007, 10:30 PM
the bank is not spending it and getting wealth though, the borrower is. i go get a mortgage for my house, *i* just created 250k through the bank, i'm the one benefitting from the value of those dollars *right now* - not the bank. by the time i do pay the bank back, they are worth less. put to an extreme, what if we have hyperinflation and silver i bought goes from 10/oz to 1000/oz? i sell off 250 oz and i'm done with that loan. inflation didn't help them at all in that scenario, it helped me!

perhaps the point your missing here is that the 250K you say you 'created' was simply a credit created in the banking system for you (as well as 9 other people at $250k each) . The bank never really lent you anything except their credit and you have to pay that back with interest.


How much more honest would it be if the bank lent you $250,000 worth of gold that you paid back.

This sort of practice is not allowed in any other industry except banking.

fsk
08-29-2007, 10:35 PM
Except they're taking on the risk of default from the people they loan it to...foreclosure, bankruptcy, etc. It's not exactly zero-effort, as you say.


Banks that are "too big to fail" are taking zero risk. As soon as they get into serious trouble, they receive a bailout in the form of an interest rate cut. Small banks are allowed to fail. The big banks who control the Federal Reserve are not allowed to fail.

When the "subprime mortgages" lose their value due to defaults, the Federal Reserve will lower interest rates. That will make all those outstanding mortgages worth more.

The bailout is not free. The bailout is paid by everyone else as inflation.

Chester Copperpot
08-29-2007, 10:36 PM
Another misrepresentation. That $900 billion is being held for the Treasury. It's not the Fed's revenue. The Fed's revenue was a palty 38 billion in 2006.

Oh, its "being held for the treasury"... I suppose thats just like the Federal reserve "holding our nation's gold for the Treasury."

What is the govt so irresponsible that we need a private bank to hold our country's wealth in gold?? The fed also hold this nations gold certificates. Gee. why dont they give the country back its gold and keep their paper money???


remember when the soviet union went around collecting hunting guns so the govt could 'hold them for the peoples safety?" same crock of crap.

Fed'sd revenue $38 Billion? I think you mean the Fed's interest income earned on govt securities before refunding that to the treasury was $38 Billion perhaps???

sickmint79
08-29-2007, 10:36 PM
i'm not saying fractional reserve is great, i'm just speaking to the points of
1. the bank getting first dibs and full value of money (which they did not - the borrower does)
2. inflation is good for banks (not really, they'd prefer you to pay back stronger dollars, not weaker ones)

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 10:37 PM
perhaps the point your missing here is that the 250K you say you 'created' was simply a credit created in the banking system for you (as well as 9 other people at $250k each) . The bank never really lent you anything except their credit and you have to pay that back with interest.


How much more honest would it be if the bank lent you $250,000 worth of gold that you paid back.

This sort of practice is not allowed in any other industry except banking.

No other industry has a perfectly fungible product where the physical object is not consumed.

Chester Copperpot
08-29-2007, 10:39 PM
i'm not saying fractional reserve is great, i'm just speaking to the points of
1. the bank getting first dibs and full value of money (which they did not - the borrower does)
2. inflation is good for banks (not really, they'd prefer you to pay back stronger dollars, not weaker ones)

Sickmint..

When you deposit $1,000 in a bank account. the Bank can create up to $9,000 to loan out to people.

They indeed are getting the use the newly created money. they are loaning it to YOU. They only have $1,000 so where did they get the other $8,000 to loan out?

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 10:41 PM
Oh, its "being held for the treasury"... I suppose thats just like the Federal reserve "holding our nation's gold for the Treasury."

What is the govt so irresponsible that we need a private bank to hold our country's wealth in gold?? The fed also hold this nations gold certificates. Gee. why dont they give the country back its gold and keep their paper money???


remember when the soviet union went around collecting hunting guns so the govt could 'hold them for the peoples safety?" same crock of crap.

Fed'sd revenue $38 Billion? I think you mean the Fed's interest income earned on govt securities before refunding that to the treasury was $38 Billion perhaps???

In addition to revenues earned for being a clearinghouse, yes.

Trance Dance Master
08-29-2007, 10:43 PM
http://www.overthrow.com/creator/wmb/credo40.asp

The Brutal Truth About Inflation and Financial Enslavement

How to Steal the World with Worthless Paper. If you were to rack your brains to find the most direct, fastest means of acquiring a monopoly of all the wealth in this world, by fair means or foul, undoubtedly the idea of setting up a gigantic money printing press would cross your mind. In short go into the counterfeiting business on a massive world-wide scale.

All Profit. What is quicker than having such huge printing presses spewing out millions of ten dollar notes, twenty dollar notes, fifties, hundreds, even thousand and ten thousand dollar notes? It is all profit, except for the ink and the paper, which, incidentally, costs less than half a cent per note, whether it is a one dollar bill or a thousand dollar bill.

Awesome Power. There is only one catch, supposedly. Counterfeiting is illegal, and governments crack down hard on violators and the penalties are harsh. In fact, the Founding Fathers of the United States, realizing the awesome power that is inherent in the issuance of money, clearly reserved these rights to Congress and Congress alone. Article 1, Section 8, Par. 5, of the Constitution of the United States, says, "Congress shall have the power to coin money, and regulate the value thereof".

Own the Presses, Buy the Government. But what if you and your gang were so highly successful that once you got going you not only owned the presses, but you had ample money to have a monopoly of the news media, and, subsequently, own the government as well? Having done so, your captive government could then make it legal for you to own and run the printing presses at will. They could then spew out the money for you by the carload. Not only that, but you could insure your great good fortune by having the printing presses run for you under the legal auspices of the established government itself and hand over all the printed money to you, free of charge, except again, for the insignificant cost of the paper and the ink. Not only would your captive government make it legal for you to be in the counterfeiting business in a huge way, but you could even have them give you a legal monopoly, thereby keeping all other competitors out of your racket. Wouldn't that be great?

Not Fantasy. An Accomplished Fact. A wild idea, you say? Perhaps. But not at all impossible. Not only is it possible, but it is an accomplished fact. It is, in fact, a harsh, cold reality, much to our detriment. Those crisp green bills you are now carrying in your wallet are the product of such a counterfeit ring. The international Jewish bankers accomplished that wild dream back in December, 1913, when they inveigled Congress to pass the Federal Reserve Act and, thereby created the Federal Reserve System, a private, (not governmental) corporation, for themselves.

Criminal Gang. This Jewish gang of criminals has rapidly been accumulating unto themselves, not only all the wealth of the United States, but of the world, ever since. Strange, you say? Not at all. When we study the history of these slippery con-artists it is not really so strange at all that they would try to do so. Being a rapacious, piratical tribe for the last several thousand years, and having manipulated the money of the world for the same period of time, it is not at all strange that the Jews would try to monopolize the creation and control of money, the most powerful tool in the world. It would be strange if they had not attempted to do so. They have been monopolizing money and the financial control of White Nations for milleniums. The thing that is strange is that the White goyim has not caught on and realized that the Jews have captured for themselves the money creating machinery of the United States, and also the rest of the world. They are now the unchallenged manipulators of the credit machinery, the banks, and the financial power of the world.

Private Corporation. There is not one American in ten thousand that doesn't believe and take for granted that the Federal Reserve System is a government agency. But nothing is further from the truth. The Federal Reserve banks are owned, lock, stock and barrel, by a criminal gang of international Jewish bankers, a gang that hasn't the slightest interest in serving the best interests of the American people. On the contrary, this scurvy gang of criminals is viciously intent on destroying the White Race that built America, despite the fact that the White Race is the only element that can keep America (and the world) from collapsing into chaos.

The Federal Reserve System, the Federal Reserve Banks, and its many branches and adjuncts, can be considered as a unit. For the sake of simplicity, we will simply refer to if as the Federal Reserve.

Government a puppet of the Fed. Not only does the U.S. government not own the Federal Reserve, it is, in fact, the other way around. The Federal Reserve owns the U.S. government and manipulates it like a puppet, solely for the interests of this avaricious international gang of Jewish jackals, who control the world, its money, and its economy.

Window Dressing. To most Americans, this comes as a major shock. Unbelievable, they say. Ask any banker as to who owns the Federal Reserve and they will lugubriously explain that the Federal Reserve stock is owned by the member banks, divided into twelve districts, that the President appoints members to the board of the governors of the Federal Reserve, etc.

All of this is partially true as far as it goes, but it is pure window-dressing. The few details about the Federal Reserve that are known are widely disseminated. Their sole objective is to act as a smoke screen for the real ownership, the real control. What little is known to the public (and very little is known about the Federal Reserve) is very selective non-information, fed to the local bankers in order to confuse them rather than inform. Even most local bank presidents are so ignorant about the real nature of the Federal Reserve that they believe it is a government owned agency rather than a privately owned corporation solely for profit.

The Brutal Truth. The real facts are somewhat different from what the average banker thinks. They are as follows:

1. The real ownership and control of the Federal Reserve is vested is the Class A stock. The names of those owning this stock are impossible to obtain. Ask your local bank president and he'll be much surprised to find out there is a Class A stock. He will not have the slightest inkling as to its ownership. He is not alone. Those names have never been divulged, not even to the President, or the Congress of the United States. Nor has any Congressional Committee ever had the nerve to honestly investigate the question of that ownership. This should give us some indication of the Federal Reserve's power, and raise a red alert.

2. Its inception, formation and dovetailing with other such institutions in foreign countries indicates that without a doubt it is owned by a powerful clique of international Jewish bankers, most of whom are not even citizens of this country.

3. To further indicate what absolute power this monster exercises over our government and economy, the Federal Reserve has pre-empted unto itself some unusual and highly illegal privileges. For instance, it pays no income tax as do other corporations, nor does it pay taxes of any other kind.

4. The Federal Reserve has never been publicly audited since its inception in 1913.

5. The Federal Reserve, by having the power to issue money, can "create" money as easily as any other counterfeit gang with a printing press, the only difference being that it can and does do so on a massive scale and has "legal" sanction to do so. The tremendous profits from this counterfeit operation all accrue to the international gang of Jewish bankers at the expense of the American working people.

6. Americans, a little over a generation ago, owned nearly half the old of the world. In 1934, Roosevelt, a chabez-goi, a willing stooge under the control of the Jews, made it illegal for American citizens to any longer own gold, although any foreign swindler, horse thief, or government, could, and still can, exchange their dollars for American gold. He made statutory criminals out of American citizens for owning gold, a privilege our government willingly grants to any foreign horse-thief.

Americans Stripped of their Gold. Thanks to such discriminatory policies, neither the American government nor the American citizen any longer own any significant quantities of gold. We have been fleeced clean. What was originally sold to the American people as a policy to back our paper money with gold, has ended up with America, its people and its government being robbed clean of its precious metal, although we are the most productive country on the face of the earth. The gold in Ft. Knox has rapidly been shipped to foreign shores, especially Switzerland, which the Jews have built up as a private "neutral" haven for themselves.

Even what little is now left in Ft. Knox is now heavily overpledgcd to foreigners and to the Federal Reserve.

Americans Fleeced Again. After having completely stripped clean the American people, in 1975, the Jew-controlled government of the United States again made it "legal" for the ordinary citizen to own gold. Americans could now buy back for $175.00 to $195.00 an ounce, what had been taken from their ancestors at $20.50 an ounce 40 years earlier. Those who fell for this trap and now bought were further fleeced by speculation and falling prices, all of which further enriched the Jewish speculators.

And Again. Such was the situation in 1976. Many White Americans lost money in the up and down manipulations of the Jewish gold speculators. Then towards 1979, as run-away inflation became more obvious and more rampant, confidence in the phoney paper dollar plummeted even further. People at home and abroad panicked and turned to gold, driving up the price to $800.00 an ounce. The Jews then pulled the rug out from under and it sank to under $500.00. Again, many White Americans lost, but the Jews, knowing in advance what they were manipulating, profited from their losses.

Planned that way. This is no accident. It was planned that way. The Jews have accomplished what they set out to do — accumulate unto themselves, among other riches, all the gold on the face of the earth.

* * * * *

Back to Beginnings. In the foregoing we have said that the Jews have a monopoly on printing counterfeit money and have also fleeced us of the huge gold reserves once owned by America, and Americans as individuals. To most gullible, uninformed Americans, this seems shocking and incredible. Yet, it is true. How did they accomplish such an astonishing feat, such blatant piracy?

Careful Planning. It is a long story. In this treatise we can only carve out the rough outlines of this sinister conspiracy that has had such a disastrous impact on the fortunes of the White Race. It is a story that must give credit to the astounding possibilities that can be accomplished by meticulous planning, patience, and tenacity. All this the Jews have put forth in ample measure.

Began with Jewish Goldsmiths. The beginnings go back to the early ancestors of the present day Jewish bankers, back as far as medieval Europe, and even further back to ancient Rome, when the Jewish "goldsmith bankers" already predominated in the money markets. They still do today. Gold has been a medium of exchange and used for coinage from ancient times. The Jews, especially, have been wildly fascinated by gold and have undoubtedly promoted the idea that it had mystical and intrinsic values far beyond its real value. In any event, in the old days, people who acquired gold took it to these certain (Jewish) goldsmiths for safekeeping. The goldsmith then gave the depositor a receipt or a "claim check" for the gold received. These "claim checks" could be used to reclaim the gold by anyone who had them in their possession, and not necessarily the same person who deposited the gold. Thereby these receipts were transferable, and in actual practice these receipts for gold began to circulate as paper money. Supposedly, the receipts were as good as gold since whoever had them in their possession could claim the gold from the goldsmiths at any time they wished.

Jews found a Gimmick. So far so good. The next step was that people learned they could carry on trade and commerce by passing these goldsmiths' receipts without ever bothering to withdraw the gold itself. Their "faith" in the value of the paper was based on the idea that it was, after all, redeemable in gold at any time.

The third step was a major discovery by the Jewish goldsmiths themselves of what has been the Key Principle (and a very profitable one) of banking ever since.

It is called "Fractional Reserves."

Loaned out gold that wasn't there. The Jewish goldsmiths made an amazing discovery. They found that with receipts circulating as money, few people came in to claim their gold. They conceived the idea that they could "loan out" gold, at interest — gold that really did not belong to them, but was only in their "safekeeping."

"Money" out of thin air. With interest. What they did was write out receipts, or "claim checks," to borrowers, and charged interest on the gold they were loaning at the same time. These "claim checks," or receipts, created out of thin air, then, too, passed into circulation, the same as the others that had been given to actual depositors of gold. The Jew, in actuality, was writing out and passing claim checks on several times as much gold as he had available, and nobody, it seemed, was the wiser.

The Jew had struck a fabulous gold mine without having to so much as turn a shovel full of dirt!

"Fractional Reserve" the gimmick. The goldsmith was "lending out" gold that (a) was really not his to lend, and (b) several times more than he actually held in "safekeeping." But with the calls for the actual gold by the original depositors being so infrequent, he felt relatively safe that with his "fractional reserve" of gold that he could cover any day to day withdrawals. He could do so, provided, of course, there was not a "run" on the gold supply that was not his, but only given to him for "safekeeping." The goldsmith, in other words, was writing receipts for perhaps five or ten times as much gold as he had actually on deposit, betting on the theory that most of his depositors would not come to claim their gold at any given time. But the interest he was collecting on the. fictitious gold he had "loaned out," but did not really have, was very real indeed. For instance, if he charged 10% interest a year, and loaned out (via "receipts") ten times as much gold as he had for "safekeeping," he could acquire for himself, in only a year's time, as much gold as was entrusted to him for "safekeeping."

Acquired Monopoly. And thus, even in medieval Europe, these Jewish shylocks acquired a monopoly of gold and money in Venice, in Amsterdam, in London, Paris, Vienna and all other financial centers of Europe.

Jews have Clear Field. Throwing the money monopoly and control of gold into the hands of the Jewish Shylocks was strongly aided and abetted by the Christian church itself. During the Middle Ages (better known as the Dark Ages, when spookcraft ran rampant), the Catholic church forbade Christians in engaging in the loan business, calling it "usury." Since lending money was usurious, and usury was a sin, Christians were shut out, leaving the field wide open to the usurious and pecuniary Jew. Added to this was the stupid Christian doctrine that "money is the root of all evil."

Soon Monopolized all Wealth. One further European practice of the time helped drive the Jews into the money manipulation monopoly. Many countries, cities and principalities had laws prohibiting Jews from engaging in a number of trades and businesses, because they were aware of how, with his rapacious nature, the Jew soon monopolized and ruined those trades and businesses. But, foolishly, to the key, the nerve center of business — money — they left the gates wide open for the Jew to monopolize, and he had a field day. This he has to this very day, and today he not only has unchallenged control of the money markets of the world, but because of it, the Jew has a monopoly of every other meaningful and worthwhile business as well.

Coming and Going. Often these Jewish goldsmiths charged their clients both ways. They charged the depositors "fees" for "safekeeping" their gold, and they also collected interest from the borrowers of gold that did not belong to them, often, as we have stated before, lending out in the form of paper receipts five or ten times as much gold as was actually on deposit in their vaults.

Basis of all Modern Banking. From this "fractional reserve" trickery, discovered by these early Jewish goldsmiths, all modern banking principles have evolved, albeit with thousands of variations and refinements.

Fear a "Run." The modern banker still fears, as did the ancient goldsmith, a "run" on his bank, a time of panic, or rumor, regarding their integrity or stability that sometimes caused all depositors to rush in and withdraw their deposits at the same time. When this happened to the early goldsmith, and happen it did, the enraged depositors, finding their gold was not there, usually hanged such Jewish manipulators from the nearest tree. In old Amsterdam, a Jewish goldsmith proposed a law making it a hanging offense for anyone starting a "run" on a goldsmith. This immediately alerted his depositors and precipitated just such a "run" on him, the very thing he feared. Of course, this Jewish Shylock had far too many "receipts" out and could not pay. The depositors ended up hanging the goldsmith.

Jews became Fabulously Wealthy. Needless to say, those Jewish goldsmiths that were not hanged became fabulously wealthy by trafficking in gold that (a) was not theirs; and, (b) did not exist. As time went on, through, fees, interest and usury sometimes as high as 30% to 50%, they acquired most of the gold that had been earned and owned by their Gentile clients. They soon became the Shylocks and money lenders, not only to individuals in all thc civilized countries, but also to their governments. They have vigorously and aggressively maintained, enhanced and strengthened that position to this very day. They have now, as we said in the beginning, acquired absolute monopoly of all banking, issuance of money, financing, money lending, stock markets and the gold of the world. It is their most powerful weapon. With it they have acquired their remaining weapons with which to enslave the gullible goyim. Through monopoly of money, they easily acquired monopoly of the means of propaganda, and every other nerve center of power, including government itself.

* * * * *

Acquired Legal Status by Treachery, Deceit, Betrayal. We now want to get back to the last part of our story — namely how the Jews acquired "legal" control and monopoly of printing the money of the United States, by setting up the Federal Reserve System. We can see from the foregoing that the foundation for this financial power group was laid many centuries before that fateful day in December of 1913.

Treachery and Cunning. It is a fascinating story, permeated by treachery, deceit, bribery, trickery, and above all — long, patient and intricate planning on the part of the Jews. It is also marked by stupidity and betrayal by members of our own race.

Rothschild owns Half the World. The International Jewish bankers, mainly based in New York, already had a tight monopoly, over the money supply of the United States long before 1913. The House of Rothschild, long ago had established their tentacles in the industrial countries of Europe, especially England, France, Germany, Italy and Austria during the 19th century. In each of these countries (as well as the smaller nations), they had organized a Central Bank System, such as the Reichsbank in Germany, or the Bank. of England in Britain. Basically, a Central Bank meant that it controlled the country's banks, using the full credit of the government to issue money. All the while it had the legal sanction of that same government whose people it was fleecing by having a monopoly on issuance, i.e., printing money.

Fiercely Destroy Anyone who Interferes. In the United States, prior to the passage of the Federal Reserve Act in 1913, whereas the Jewish bankers had had control of the nation's money almost from its inception, that control was still fluid amongst its own rivals and could be wrecked by an aroused people and/or Congress. In fact, during the Civil War, in a temporary lapse, Abraham Lincolm invoked the legitimate powers of Congress and issued 450 million dollars in printed currency, later called "Greenbacks" that did not derive through the hands of the International Jewish Bankers, and no interest was paid on this money. This single act so enraged the Jewish bankers, that they had Lincoln assassinated by one of their agents, namely Botha, alias John Wilkes Booth, a Jew.

Artificial Panics. In any event, after the Civil War, due to the manipulations of these Jewish bankers, who had artificially created the financial panics of 1873, 1893, and the severest of all, in 1907, there were serious rumblings from the people, and from some uncontrolled members of Congress, threatening that the Jewish power might be broken.

To ward off such a possibility, they decided to "legalize" their unconstitutional shenanigans by Federal Law — all in the name of "reform against the New York Bankers." This was reverse psychology at its best.

Paul Warburg the Master Mind. To lay the ground work for such a law, a small clique of bankers headed by Paul M. Warburg, a Jew, recently arrived from Germany, met secretly on Jekyll Island at a plush hunting club in Georgia. They left in a private railroad car from Hoboken, New Jersey on November 22, 1910. So secretive was the meeting, no news about it leaked out until six years later.

With this small gang of New York bankers was one Senator, namely Senator Nelson Aldrich, himself entangled with the Jews in vast holdings and monopolies. Paul M. Warburg had come from Germany only 8 years earlier. He represented the House of M. M. Warburg Company, which controlled the Reichsbank in Germany, and in turn was a branch of the Jewish House of Rothschild.

Jewish Boast. It was Meyer Amschel, the patriarch of the House of Rothschild, who arrogantly stated, "Give me control over a nation's money and I care not who makes its laws." The Jewish House of Rothschild has made good that boast and now controls the economies (and the law-making) of the world.

At Jekyll Island. Under Paul Warburg's leadership, the small clique at Jekyll Island hammered out the main draft of a bill that would secure for themselves the legalized and privileged monopoly of banking, based on the same systems as the Central Banks of Europe. At the heart of it all was the unrestricted printing of money, and having sole monopoly.

Political Trickery. It was introduced into Congress as the Aldrich Plan by the senator whose name it bore under the auspices of the Republican Party. The bill was roundly attacked by opponents of Wall Street as being a bill favoring the New York bankers.

In the elections of 1912, the Republicans made the Aldrich Plan (all in the name of reform) a part of their official platform. An unknown University professor by the name of Woodrow Wilson, suddenly, out of nowhere, became the Democratic candidate for President. He and the Democratic party roundly attacked the Aldrich plan and offered in its place a piece of legislation that (supposedly) was "for the people" instead of the bankers. It was called the Federal Reserve Act. Although Congress and the people were too stupid to realize the situation, the "opposition" plan was in essence the same Aldrich Plan, as hammered out by Jew Paul Warburg and his henchmen, at the secret meeting on Jekyll Island. There was some honest opposition to the bill by such stalwarts as Congressman Charles A. Lindberg from Minnesota, and Senator LaFollette of Wisconsin, and others. Passage of either the Republican version or the Democratic version was precarious, despite loading the coin on both sides.

Bided their Time. But the treachery and cunning of the Jews is almost infinite. They bided their time. On December 23, 1913, when most of the congressmen and senators had already left the capital for the Christmas holidays, their select henchman stayed and rushed the bill through congress. Their paid stooge, Woodrow Wilson, signed the bill immediately. The Jews had their Central Bank, European style.

Disaster for American People. For the American people, who understand little of all the confusion, it was a day of infamy, a disaster of much greater magnitude than a dozen Pearl Harbors.

* * * * *

Deficit Spending. Stripped of all window dressing, how does the Federal Reserve work? Basically, it works on deficit spending and the same principles of "fractional reserves" as practised by their Jewish goldsmith ancestors.

The Jews are constantly and deliberately pushing the Federal government deeper and deeper into debt, because every billion dollars more debt means a billion dollars into their own coffers, plus interest.

Mechanics of Manipulation. Supposing the Federal government in Washington needs another ten billion dollars. Where do they get it? They go to the Federal Reserve, a private criminal gang of international Jewish bankers. The Federal Reserve makes the loan.

Where does the Federal Reserve get all this money?

Simply Prints it for Nothing. In order to make the loan, the Federal Reserve first asks the U.S. Bureau of Printing and Engraving to print up a new batch of 10 billion in dollar bills of various denomination, tens, twenties, hundreds, etc. These then are turned over to the Federal Reserve Bank free of charge, except for the cost of the paper and ink for printing them, which is insignificant. The United States government then prints up ten billion dollars in U.S. government bonds and turns these over to the Federal Reserve also as "collateral." These U.S. Government bonds are an I.O.U. and have to be repaid, with interest. The Federal Reserve then issues the U.S. Treasury department credit to the amount of ten billion dollars on which it can write checks.

Salamando
08-29-2007, 10:43 PM
I might be steering this into a new direction but I'm curious. Hypothetically, RP becomes president and eliminates the federal reserve, IRS, and income tax, I'm assuming in his first week. Eliminating the federal reserve prevents future inflation but the money is already out there. Will there be some sort of a deflation process? What does he plan to do to bring us back to a normal level? If we immediately move into the gold standard, does the extra money just get shredded?

Also, if its true that all (or much) of the gold that we stored in the past is gone, how would we move toward the gold standard without enough gold?

Trance Dance Master
08-29-2007, 10:44 PM
People in Debt with Interest for Worthless Paper.

A cursory inspection of this transaction reveals:

1. The Federal Reserve has contributed nothing but paper and ink, a minimal item.

2. Riding on the credit and prestige of the United States government, it has "issued" (created out of nothing) ten billion dollars worth of new money.

3. The government gets to spend this money, but has to pay it back to the Federal Reserve with interest.

4. The Federal Reserve is immediately ten billion dollars richer — plus the eternal interest it will accrue from this account receivable.

5. The United States government and people are ten billion dollars deeper in debt to the Federal Reserve and have to pay it back with interest.

6. If congress did its duty and invoked its constitutional right and obligation, it could and should have printed the same ten billion in dollar bills on its own for the cost of the paper and ink, as did Abraham Lincoln, without owing the Jewish bankers a cent. This is what the Constitution of the United States authorizes it to do and obligates it to do.

Hitler defied Jewish Bankers. As far as I know, in modern times, outside of the $450 million in "greenbacks" that Abraham Lincoln had printed, the only country that defied the Jews and printed its own money was Adolf Hitler's Germany between 1933 and 1945. Before Hitler, the Rothschild owned Reichsbank had Germany so tied up, bankrupted and in debt, that the German people were virtual slaves to their Jewish masters. Every business, every industry, every farm, every cow, was either owned by the Jews or hopelessly pledged to them. Millions were unemployed and starving. The country, totally ravished by the Jews, was in worst possible straits, financially, morally, and practically every other way anyone could possibly imagine.

Germany Printed Its Own Money. As soon as Hitler came to power, he wrested the money printing privileges out of the hands of the Jews. Instead, it was printed by the legal authority of the German government itself, backed by the productive strength of the nation. There was no interest paid on it and the government was not in debt to any Jews or anybody else for each and every Mark that was printed.

Miracle Recovery. The immediate financial and industrial recovery in Germany that followed was a marvel to behold. While much richer countries, like the United States, were wallowing in depression, unemployment and despair, the Germans were busily building new factories, super highways, houses, cars, ships, etc. Unemployment disappeared in short order. Everyone was working and building. By breaking the Jewish financial stranglehold over the German people, the Germans, during Hitler's short 6 year period of peace, were more productive and prosperous than they had ever been in their previous history.

Fabulous Wealth could he Ours. The United States, being a much richer country, due to its land and resources, could be fabulously wealthy if and when we break the Jewish stranglehold here. This we must do and we will do.

Jews pushed us into World War I. Although the Federal Reserve Act, passed in 1913 violated the Constitution (and still does), which says under Article I, Section 8, Congress alone "has the power to coin money, (and) regulate the value thereof" the Jews now "legally" had the power to print all the money they wanted, to control, fleece and manipulate the finances of the wealthiest country in the world. They have done so with a vengeance. They were now ready to use those powers. Within less than a year after passage of the Federal Reserve Act, the Jews had World War I in full swing. By 1917, they had the United States inveigled in it, although we had not even the slightest national interest in entering that war.

Financed both Sides. But the Jews did. In Germany, the Jewish outfit of M.M. Warburg Co., was helping the Kaiser "finance" the war. In the United States, Paul Warburg of Kuhn, Loeb and Co. and their now functioning Federal Reserve System was "selling" war bonds to the American government by the billions to finance the "American" war effort. Both Central Banks, in Germany and the United States, were owned and controlled by the same Jewish House of Rothschild. While the cream of young manhood of the White Race was dying in the stinking trenches and the mud of the battlefields, the Jewish printing presses on both sides of the Atlantic were rolling out money and propaganda. The White nations of the world were killing the best of their manhood, sinking deeper and deeper into debt, and the Jews were getting richer and fatter.

Terrible Power. The Federal Reserve System is, of course, an unmitigated evil, the poisonous breath of a monster that is choking the American White people to death. With unlimited control of the money and finances of the world, the Jews can deliberately instigate, and manipulate wars, depressions, debts and taxes at will. Through the power of money, they have accrued unto themselves the television networks, the news media, the stock exchanges, the banks, the industries, and, in fact, the government itself. The Jewish controlled government is now slowly enslaving the White Race here and abroad in a deliberate program of destruction.

Racial Showdown. What can we do about it? It is pointless to wage single wars against the Federal Reserve or the United Nations, or the many other tools the Jews now control in order to more rapidly destroy us. We are not going to win scattered battles. We can only win a total war in which it is a united, organized war, a total war — the White Race against the Jews and the mud races. Our best and only program is to organize racially around the creed of The Creativity Movement. We must totally drive the Jews from power and totally grasp into our own hands our own future and destiny. Only an organized, united White Race can do that, and do it we will.

Racial Religion A Must. Once this book, the White Man's Bible, is the universal property of the majority of the White People of the United States, we are well on the way to having broken the terrible power of the parasitical Jews and the diabolic Federal Reserve.

Check it out for yourself. Should you doubt the accuracy and veracity of my story about the Federal Reserve rip-off, be my guest and check it out for yourself. There are particularly a few vital questions to which you must get straight answers:

First, and the most vital: To whom does the benefit accrue each time a new dollar bill is printed? Certainly not the public, and certainly not the U.S. Government. If the government got the benefit of all the printing press money, it would not be 800 billion dollars in debt and have to tax the people another 700 billion a year to try to shore up its deficit budget. The benefit clearly accrues to the international gang of Jewish counterfeiters who own the Federal Reserve.

Second: Who owns the Class "A" stock in the Federal Reserve? Don't let them tell you there isn't any.

Thirdly: Why does the Federal Reserve pay no taxes, when every other private corporation and individual does?

Fourthly: Why has the Federal Reserve never been audited?

There are many more questions we should ask, but the above will suffice.

In order to get answers you may want to write to your Congressmen, or perhaps half a dozen Congressmen and Senators, and see what a disparity of answers they come up with. Don't expect to get honest answers from them. Nor can you expect your banker, nor the news media to come up with any straight answers. The bankers, because they don't really know, and the news media, for the same reason, but even if they knew, they would lie to you, because they are owned by, and are part and parcel of, the same International Jewish Conspiracy.

Red Flag. The very fact that it is so difficult to get straight answers to the above vital questions should Alert Red Flags in your mind about the Sinister Nature of the conspiracy that devours all.

Conclusion.

What does all this mean to you, the average hard working White taxpayer? What does it mean to you, the average White American who has to work and scrimp and save to make ends meet and earn a decent living for himself and his family, yet has to work into the middle of June to assuage the voracious Jewish tax collector?

It means plenty to you. The impact on the working White middle-class American is devastating. It practically makes him a galley slave in the so-called Land of the Free, the America that the White Man built from a wilderness.

So you had better listen and listen real well. The nefarious swindle known as the Federal Reserve means the following to you.

1. It means you have to earn every dollar you work for at least five times over.

(a) You first earn the dollar that supposedly you get in your paycheck or in your business.

(b) You have to pay for it again by borrowing it from the Federal Reserve swindlers.

(c) You have to pay interest on that dollar forever and a day to the Federal Reserve. This may wind up paying two dollars in interest for every dollar received (borrowed).

(d). You have to pay more than half of what you earn back in a multitude of taxes, all of which finally ends up in the hands of the same Jewish swindlers whose counterfeit dollars you had to beg for in the first place.

2. It means also, since these treacherous Jews have the fraudulent means of printing themselves unlimited wealth, that they can buy up the total means of propaganda — newspapers, magazines, publishing houses, book distribution, radio networks, T.V. networks, etc. This they have done a long time ago and they are in total control. They have ruthlessly used this to control the minds and the thinking of the people of the world, including the confused and confounded thinking of the White Race.

3. By means of thought control and mind manipulation they also control the governments of the world, including our own in the United States of America.

4. By means of their tremendous financial power they can also buy, sell and manipulate those government officials that are not persuaded. In short they can and do buy, sell, own and control our government.

5. Since the program of the Jews is the total mongrelization and destruction of the White Race (which they are accomplishing at an accelerating pace), you, my dear White Racial Comrade, are the target of their destruction. Whether you like it or not, you are in the frying pan.

6. Because of their insatiable avarice and greed, the Jews, by means of confiscatory taxation, are looting the White Man of even that little which he has left after years of hard work and scrimping and saving.

7. The small sum total of the White Man's savings is further decimated by spiraling inflation. And what causes inflation? The unlimited printing of counterfeit paper dollars by the corrupt and sinister Jew, as manifested by the Federal Reserve.

* * * * *

Think it Through. So think about it, White Man. You have a lot at stake as to whether or not you continue to allow the venal and perfidious Jew to continue his fraudulent racket of printing worthless paper dollars and passing them off to you as being "legal tender."

You had better wake up and do something and do it now. "But," you ask, "What can I do?"

* * * * *

What can you do, indeed? A good question and we will answer it only briefly here, but we will show the way.

The White Man in small numbers has been aware of the sinister Jewish menace for a long, long time. The persistent mistake he has made in his feeble efforts to fight this cancer has been to fight the symptoms of that cancer, not the cause. This we have shown in the chapter of the relentless warfare between the Jews and the Gentiles.

The Federal Reserve is one of those symptoms, albeit a mighty powerful symptom. The real underlying cause is the Jewish network, the Jewish race itself. (Other symptoms of Jewish malignancy are: the United Nations; the corrupt, race mixing, Supreme Court; inflation; crime; integration; confiscatory taxation and a host of other Jew-concocted problems bedeviling the White Man.)

We Have The Power. The Creativity Movement has the creed and the program to destroy this malignant evil and wipe it from the face of the earth. We cannot destroy the powerful Jewish plague by chopping at its tentacles. Only by marshalling and organizing the awesome might of the total White Race can we ever hope to get the parasitic Jew off our back. Aroused, informed and organized the White Race is ten times as powerful as all the Jews and mud races combined. Our program gets down to the basics of the Laws of Nature, the survival of our own kind, the great White Race. We go after the cause, not the symptoms.

In this, our White Man's Bible, and in NATURE'S ETERNAL RELIGION, we have the total program, the final solution, the ultimate creed.

Organize and Distribute. Need we say more? If you want to join the White Man's fight for survival, expansion and advancement of our own race, then avail yourself of a copy today.

After you have read our Bible, thoroughly digested and studied it, then you are ready to become a member of the finest religious organization on the face of the earth, The Creativity Movement. You are then ready to become a CREATOR — the cream of the elite, and take up the fight against the despicable Jew.

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 10:46 PM
Banks that are "too big to fail" are taking zero risk. As soon as they get into serious trouble, they receive a bailout in the form of an interest rate cut. Small banks are allowed to fail. The big banks who control the Federal Reserve are not allowed to fail.

When the "subprime mortgages" lose their value due to defaults, the Federal Reserve will lower interest rates. That will make all those outstanding mortgages worth more.

The bailout is not free. The bailout is paid by everyone else as inflation.

Loaning money to Enron, Worldcomm, Conseco, Financial Corp, Refco, Kmart was risk free?

Trance Dance Master
08-29-2007, 10:47 PM
I might be steering this into a new direction but I'm curious. Hypothetically, RP becomes president and eliminates the federal reserve, IRS, and income tax, I'm assuming in his first week. Eliminating the federal reserve prevents future inflation but the money is already out there. Will there be some sort of a deflation process? What does he plan to do to bring us back to a normal level? If we immediately move into the gold standard, does the extra money just get shredded?

Also, if its true that all (or much) of the gold that we stored in the past is gone, how would we move toward the gold standard without enough gold?
There is always enough gold and silver to return to a sound money system. A dollar is defined as a quantity of silver. All that needs to be done is to divide the amount of grams of silver that exists in the hands of Americans by the number of dollars in circulation once the Federal Reserve is eliminated and there you have your quantity.

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 10:57 PM
Stop propagating a fallacy:

4. The Federal Reserve is immediately ten billion dollars richer — plus the eternal interest it will accrue from this account receivable.

They receive a ten billion dollar asset and they create a ten billion dollar liability. The government, on a schedule, will "buy back" (if you will) the asset from the Fed and they will pay for it with the Fed's liability, thus offsetting.

That the Congress is able pass laws and appropriate our future tax payments on programs that are not the Federal government's responsibility SHOULD make you pissed off in and of itself. That you create this additional boogeyman, you create alarmist relativity where people are not pissed because the reality isn't as bad as you made it out to be. Oh, Congress only wants to grant the president the power to spend a trillion dollars and pre-emptively go to war against a country that doesn't even have the capability of being a threat to us? That's fine, I thought someone was trying to enslave me.

Oh, and please don't spam, a link will suffice.

sickmint79
08-29-2007, 11:00 PM
Sickmint..

When you deposit $1,000 in a bank account. the Bank can create up to $9,000 to loan out to people.

They indeed are getting the use the newly created money. they are loaning it to YOU. They only have $1,000 so where did they get the other $8,000 to loan out?

again they are not the ones using it though... i get to use full purchasing power, not them... they're just making some more money.

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 11:02 PM
There is always enough gold and silver to return to a sound money system. A dollar is defined as a quantity of silver. All that needs to be done is to divide the amount of grams of silver that exists in the hands of Americans by the number of dollars in circulation once the Federal Reserve is eliminated and there you have your quantity.

:rolleyes: Yup, that's all that needs to be done. /sarcasm

Trance Dance Master
08-29-2007, 11:09 PM
:rolleyes: Yup, that's all that needs to be done. /sarcasm
Do you have a better solution for returning to sound money? I'm all ears.

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 11:19 PM
Do you have a better solution for returning to sound money? I'm all ears.

We slowly got off sound money, we would have to slowly go back on it. You would have to get the Government out of the buying business. Have the government retire it's debt. This would slow down our economy drastically, but we'd have to endure it. The party is over, it's time to clean up and accept the hangover.

Trance Dance Master
08-29-2007, 11:30 PM
We slowly got off sound money, we would have to slowly go back on it. You would have to get the Government out of the buying business. Have the government retire it's debt. This would slow down our economy drastically, but we'd have to endure it. The party is over, it's time to clean up and accept the hangover.
In this scenario, my equation still holds true.

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 11:33 PM
In this scenario, my equation still holds true.

Except your example said "All that needs to be done"

Chester Copperpot
08-29-2007, 11:35 PM
C'mon you gotta admit how great this is... WHENS THE LAST TIME 'SOUND MONEY' WAS EVEN A POLITICAL ISSUE.. GROVER CLEVELAND??

People are waking up in this country yes sirree.. I cant wait to see Paul as president and in his first address to the people shock em all with the shit we already know!

Trance Dance Master
08-29-2007, 11:47 PM
Except your example said "All that needs to be done"
It is all that needs to be done. It takes work. A lot of people aren't used to working. Get used to it.

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 11:53 PM
C'mon you gotta admit how great this is... WHENS THE LAST TIME 'SOUND MONEY' WAS EVEN A POLITICAL ISSUE.. GROVER CLEVELAND??

People are waking up in this country yes sirree.. I cant wait to see Paul as president and in his first address to the people shock em all with the shit we already know!

You're absolutely correct and it's even greater when people can be alarmed and not become apathetic because of relativism. That they're pissed that their congressman is stealing from them and don't accept it because they find out there isn't a boogeyman hiding under their bed.

cjhowe
08-29-2007, 11:55 PM
It is all that needs to be done. It takes work. A lot of people aren't used to working. Get used to it.

You said that all that has to be done is divvy up the silver. That's not right. I should let you think you're right so this conversation dies, but i just can't find it in myself to let you get away with that.

Trance Dance Master
08-30-2007, 12:01 AM
You said that all that has to be done is divvy up the silver. That's not right. I should let you think you're right so this conversation dies, but i just can't find it in myself to let you get away with that.
Not divvy up the silver. Properly value the assets. Base the price of them in silver rather than federal reserve notes. Any asset can be redeemed for silver in the free market, as they can for FRNs today.

cjhowe
08-30-2007, 12:05 AM
Not divvy up the silver. Properly value the assets. Base the price of them in silver rather than federal reserve notes. Any asset can be redeemed for silver in the free market, as they can for FRNs today.

So, then there is nothing to do?

Chester Copperpot
08-30-2007, 12:08 AM
Hey I was wondering.. After Ron Paul gets elected should we kill and torture everybody who helped the Federal Reserve harm the country or just hang people like bernanke and greenspan??

Should we give them the chance to repent?


I definitely all for using some of Bush's Executive Orders where we can take all their assets for 'destablizing Iraq and such'... what do you think.. Arrest president bush with his own EO? Wouldnt that just be poetic justice??

Trance Dance Master
08-30-2007, 12:08 AM
So, then there is nothing to do?
Adjustments will have to be made. How much silver do you think you could sell your house for or any other assets that you can currently use as collateral for loans?

LibertyOfOne
08-30-2007, 12:09 AM
Hey I was wondering.. After Ron Paul gets elected should we kill and torture everybody who helped the Federal Reserve harm the country or just hang people like bernanke and greenspan??

Should we give them the chance to repent?


I definitely all for using some of Bush's Executive Orders where we can take all their assets for 'destablizing Iraq and such'... what do you think.. Arrest president bush with his own EO? Wouldnt that just be poetic justice??


No, agent provocateur?

Trance Dance Master
08-30-2007, 12:10 AM
After Ron Paul gets elected should we kill and torture everybody who helped the Federal Reserve harm the country or just hang people like bernanke and greenspan??

Economic criminals tried and convicted in a court of law will not be granted amnesty.

cjhowe
08-30-2007, 12:22 AM
Hey I was wondering.. After Ron Paul gets elected should we kill and torture everybody who helped the Federal Reserve harm the country or just hang people like bernanke and greenspan??

Should we give them the chance to repent?


I definitely all for using some of Bush's Executive Orders where we can take all their assets for 'destablizing Iraq and such'... what do you think.. Arrest president bush with his own EO? Wouldnt that just be poetic justice??

You'd be hard pressed to find an American that wasn't complicit. You have a credit card?

Trance Dance Master
08-30-2007, 12:39 AM
You'd be hard pressed to find an American that wasn't complicit. You have a credit card?
Good point. Solutions and effective preventive measures take priority to the thirst for the blood of a scapegoat.