Ladies, choose your ob-gyn carefully

[rational thinker]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19190916/

A friend of mine sent me this link with this message:


On one hand, I think a doctor has every right to inject his faith into his private practice.

But this is exactly what is wrong with hospitals being privately owned. Especially emergency rooms. If hospitals were again publicly owned and maintained, you couldn't have asshats like this guy pulling such nonsense.

I kind of agree.

[bill50]

If your ob-gyn is against prescribing a morning after pill, just see another doc, problem solved. State oversight will just make the hospitals worse.

[rational thinker]

If your ob-gyn is against prescribing a morning after pill, just see another doc, problem solved. State oversight will just make the hospitals worse.

Exactly how many Emergency Rooms are in a 3 mile radius of your home?

She was just raped and that was the nearest emergency room. You want her to take the time to research her neighborhood hospitals?

Keep business in private practices. Give hospitals back to the communities.

Aside from this kind of nonsense, when hospitals try to earn profits, shit like this happens. (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/99308.php)

[Nirvikalpa]

Hmm. Wow.

I was actually leaning towards Obstetrics until I read this article. I'm also a pro-life Christian.

This article really tore me up. One hand, I don't think it was right for her to not get the medicine, because she had been through enough trauma. A doctor should do what is best for his/her patients, at least that is what I always thought should be done.

On the other hand, I really don't know what I would have done in that situation. Would I have given her the pills, being a pro-life Christian? I don't know. I probably wouldn't... I would get another doctor. But then again, is my right as a doctor greater than hers as a patient? I don't think so.

Then again... my choice to be pro-life is my choice for me, and I can't penalize a woman for wanting the morning-after pill, can I? Especially after a vicious attack.

My head hurts. I don't want to go into Obstetrics anymore.

[asgardshill]

If your ob-gyn is against prescribing a morning after pill, just see another doc, problem solved. State oversight will just make the hospitals worse.

Agree. This is a blue-ribbon reason why its a good thing to have a family doctor whose quirks you know about beforehand. If I were female and in the same position as this poor woman, you can be darned sure that my family doctor would prescribe whatever I asked, or he or she wouldn't be my family doctor to begin with.

[MRoCkEd]

what would ron paul do

[Hiki]

Religious people cease to amaze me once again.

[ladyjade3]

Yep. Just go to a different doctor. You still have a choice in that.

[rational thinker]

Agree. This is a blue-ribbon reason why its a good thing to have a family doctor whose quirks you know about beforehand. If I were female and in the same position as this poor woman, you can be darned sure that my family doctor would prescribe whatever I asked, or he or she wouldn't be my family doctor to begin with.

See above.

[rational thinker]

Yep. Just go to a different doctor. You still have a choice in that.

*sigh* See above.

[angelatc]

That's just so stupid. It's a Catholic Hospital. They have a right to their beliefs.

The morning pill isn't RU-486. It's just a megadose of birth control that keeps a fertilized egg from attaching to the wall of the uterus.

Private hospitals can indeed curb this. They can tell their doctors that they have to prescribe the pills, or they can go work at the Catholic Hospital, where things might be different.

This is the very reason that the government should not be involved in health care!

[angelatc]

Exactly how many Emergency Rooms are in a 3 mile radius of your home?

She was just raped and that was the nearest emergency room. You want her to take the time to research her neighborhood hospitals?

Keep business in private practices. Give hospitals back to the communities.

Aside from this kind of nonsense, when hospitals try to earn profits, shit like this happens. (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/99308.php)

The Catholics should have rights too. If people don't like the way they practice medicine they'll go out of business. Let the market decide.

And the article says she has up to 72 hours to take the pill. She has time to call her family MD.

[votefreedomfirst]

Later that day, her rape counselor found Boyer a physician who would prescribe her EC.

It's unfortunate that this happened, but this is hardly a reason for greater government involvement in health care. The doctor in question may have been unnecessarily blunt in his refusal, but that is his right. I respect it even if I don't agree with it. It's not as if she wasn't able to get the prescription relatively quickly and easily (by asking her rape counselor).

[ladyjade3]

Many believe that life begins at conception. I personally don't feel that way, but I wouldn't want government (ie a public hospital) mandating that a doctor MUST prescribe the morning after pill, OR performing abortions if it was against their conscience.

Be careful about what government intervention you wish for. The free market should sort out what patients go to that doctor and which ones choose someone else.

[Matt Collins]

On one hand, Are you sure the doc isn't using both hands? :D



I think a doctor has every right to inject his faith into his private practice.I think the chick had something else injected besides faith...


crass I know but I thought it was funny

[LibertyEagle]

be careful about what government intervention you wish for. The free market should sort out what patients go to that doctor and which ones choose someone else.

qft

[Acala]

In a free society, you would not NEED a doctor to get a morning after pill. You go to the store and pick one off the shelf. The whole prescription mess is a government institution that needs to die.

[asgardshill]

http://ec.princeton.edu/questions/what-fda-says.html

Hold the phone - according to this, the "Morning After Pill" (also known as Plan B) is available WITHOUT A PRESCRIPTION at any licensed pharmacy in 9 states (California, Washington, Alaska, Hawaii, New Mexico, Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, and Vermont). I did not know this (Johnny Carson voice).

Edited to add: But not in Pennsylvania where the woman in the story was.

[asgardshill]

I think the chick had something else injected besides faith...

crass I know but I thought it was funny

Beat me to it. :D

[ladyjade3]

In a free society, you would not NEED a doctor to get a morning after pill. You go to the store and pick one off the shelf. The whole prescription mess is a government institution that needs to die.

qft

[Matt Collins]

In all seriousness, I would say anytime until the first trimester or whenever there's a heartbeat or central nervous system.

[ARealConservative]

Exactly how many Emergency Rooms are in a 3 mile radius of your home?

She was just raped and that was the nearest emergency room. You want her to take the time to research her neighborhood hospitals?

Keep business in private practices. Give hospitals back to the communities.

Aside from this kind of nonsense, when hospitals try to earn profits, shit like this happens. (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/99308.php)

So those that go into medical care lose their rights because nobody else is risking a business in this hypothetical three mile radius of yours?

Or maybe you will apply equal coercion to all business? I know I cant find a decent bottle of beer in a three mile radius of where I live - nothing but cheap mass produced crap.

Your emotional appeal towards the person suffering is really no different then what socialists do to argue for free medical care.

[Matt Collins]

Post removed by Matt - Not everyone likes my sense of humor - but I didn't make the parody, I just linked to it.

[familydog]

Exactly how many Emergency Rooms are in a 3 mile radius of your home?

She was just raped and that was the nearest emergency room. You want her to take the time to research her neighborhood hospitals?

Keep business in private practices. Give hospitals back to the communities.

Aside from this kind of nonsense, when hospitals try to earn profits, shit like this happens. (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/99308.php)

Ron Paul addresses a similar issue in his Candidates@Google (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCM_wQy4YVg)video. See 44 minutes in.

[Dustancostine]

In a free society, you would not NEED a doctor to get a morning after pill. You go to the store and pick one off the shelf. The whole prescription mess is a government institution that needs to die.

+1

[JosephTheLibertarian]

*sigh* See above.

What's your problem? Are you a communist? I know how the story goes, I don't have to read it. What concern is it of yours what people you don't know experience? Focus on yourself, k? Focusing on everyone else is what leads government to legislate every god damn thing in the first place!

Healthcare needs to be left to he free market, even if some dummies get f*ked over, that's just...life. You don't even know how to pragmatically impose the regulations you want imposed, until you do, maybe you should take a back seat on these issues.

[Dustancostine]

Go, Joe, Go

[priest_of_syrinx]

Remember RON PAUL LOVES VAGINAS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXPsJkQqhJY

It's so stupid, but I lol'ed.

I lol'ed at the screenshot of the hand gesture.

[Nirvikalpa]

:rolleyes:

[Maverick]

Remember RON PAUL LOVES VAGINAS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXPsJkQqhJY

It's so stupid, but I lol'ed.

I lol'ed at the screenshot of the hand gesture.

His face at 1:40 is freakin' priceless!

I almost fell out of my chair seeing that one :D

[RoyalShock]

If people going into the medical field are required to leave their morality and religion behind, what do you think that is going to do to the overall number of health practitioners and care facilities?

And do you think that is a good thing?

At that point you might as well give it over to government because the quality of care will dip to that of socialized medicine.

Yes, let's lower healthcare quality for 99.5% of the people because .5% can't get what they want at the moment they want it. Makes sense to me. :rolleyes:

[JosephTheLibertarian]

If people going into the medical field are required to leave their morality and religion behind, what do you think that is going to do to the overall number of health practitioners and care facilities?

And do you think that is a good thing?

At that point you might as well give it over to government because the quality of care will dip to that of socialized medicine.

Yes, let's lower healthcare quality for 99.5% of the people because .5% can't get what they want at the moment they want it. Makes sense to me. :rolleyes:

What we need to do is to take healthcare and toss it out of the window. Let doctors be docors again.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

If hospitals were again publicly owned and maintained, you couldn't have asshats like this guy pulling such nonsense.

Was that person suggesting there's no religion in govt? Or that public institutions offer more choices?

It's the religious who have tried to get govt to make it so no one could obtain morning after pills.

She should be able to buy her own meds OTC. The problem is that the power is already too concentrated, not that the power needs to be more concentrated.

[Kade]

So those that go into medical care lose their rights because nobody else is risking a business in this hypothetical three mile radius of yours?

Or maybe you will apply equal coercion to all business? I know I cant find a decent bottle of beer in a three mile radius of where I live - nothing but cheap mass produced crap.

Your emotional appeal towards the person suffering is really no different then what socialists do to argue for free medical care.

The government has restricted access to certain medicine. Regardless of where you stand on abortion issues, because a Doctor is required for these medications, a Doctor should be willing to prescribe them under any pretense, regardless of his rather inane moral leanings. Being a doctor includes, among other things...surprise... being a doctor.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

The government has restricted access to certain medicine. Regardless of where you stand on abortion issues, because a Doctor is required for these medications, a Doctor should be willing to prescribe them under any pretense, regardless of his rather inane moral leanings. Being a doctor includes, among other things...surprise... being a doctor.

Yeah, who is the government to restrict our access to things? fuck them

[Kade]

Yeah, who is the government to restrict our access to things? fuck them

low tax liberal... I like the ring to that.

[acptulsa]

On the other hand, I really don't know what I would have done in that situation. Would I have given her the pills, being a pro-life Christian? I don't know. I probably wouldn't... I would get another doctor. But then again, is my right as a doctor greater than hers as a patient? I don't think so.

No mystery for me at all. When the state, the church, or anyone or anything else tells a woman that she has to carry a rapist's baby to term and decide if she loves the baby more than she hates that baby's conception, whether it be due to "the law is one size fits all" or "this paragon of evil was doing God's will", I will fight that entity tooth and nail!

It is not society's duty to encourage rape, damn it.

[ARealConservative]

The government has restricted access to certain medicine. Regardless of where you stand on abortion issues, because a Doctor is required for these medications, a Doctor should be willing to prescribe them under any pretense, regardless of his rather inane moral leanings. Being a doctor includes, among other things...surprise... being a doctor.

so because the government has restriced access, you will restrict the rights of dr's who may or may not agree with the actions of government?

How far down this slippery slope are you willing to slide? The sale of beer is also restricted in most locales.....

[JosephTheLibertarian]

low tax liberal... I like the ring to that.

Yeah, it's a mixture of cutting taxes, cutting spending and reforming what you can't cut to run better, which many technocrats would agree with, but it's also about increasing SS after we save billions when we leave Iraq.

[Kade]

so because the government has restriced access, you will restrict the rights of dr's who may or may not agree with the actions of government?

How far down this slippery slope are you willing to slide? The sale of beer is also restricted in most locales.....

Beer and rape victims, I suppose they are closer than we suspect, eh?

If he refuses to be a doctor, then he is giving up the right to be called Doctor.

Yes, I offer health services, occasionally, when it suits me.

The doctor receives benefits from many government institutions, and most of his patients can only afford his services with some form of insurance plan...

If he refuses to be a doctor, than those insurance plans should refuse to pay for his patients care.

It's like calling yourself a shoemaker, getting shoemaker guild royalties and benefits, but only making shoelaces.

You are a lace queen, and that's it. This guy isn't a doctor. HE should receive not benefits of a Doctor, and the AMA should strip him of any previous benefits... other than that, fine, yea let him perform whatever voodoo healthcare he wants.

[Mckarnin]

Classical Hippocratic Oath....a lot of doctors take a variation of this when they become doctors. We aren't just talking about the woman here and even if we were there is plenty of evidence that the morning after pill can be quite dangerous and abortion can cause serious, sometimes life threatening complications and mental health problems as a result of abortion are well documented...so, there are ways of arguing it either way.

Hippocratic Oath -- Classical Version

I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfil according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:

To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art - if they desire to learn it - without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no one else.

I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.

Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about.

If I fulfil this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19190916/

A friend of mine sent me this link with this message:



I kind of agree.

[ARealConservative]

Beer and rape victims, I suppose they are closer than we suspect, eh?

they both fit into commerce, no?


If he refuses to be a doctor, then he is giving up the right to be called Doctor.

so a Dr has entered into 24 hour a day, seven day a week involuntary servitude?

why can't we apply the same to garbage collection? If I see a garbage man around and a piece of trash on the floor, he damn well better pick it up :rolleyes:

[Kade]

they both fit into commerce, no?



so a Dr has entered into 24 hour a day, seven day a week involuntary servitude?

why can't we apply the same to garbage collection? If I see a garbage man around and a piece of trash on the floor, he damn well better pick it up :rolleyes:

You know that is not the position I have... I don't care what he does.. he isn't a doctor, nor should he/she receive the benefits of being a doctor.

[Kade]

Classical Hippocratic Oath....a lot of doctors take a variation of this when they become doctors. We aren't just talking about the woman here and even if we were there is plenty of evidence that the morning after pill can be quite dangerous and abortion can cause serious, sometimes life threatening complications and mental health problems as a result of abortion are well documented...so, there are ways of arguing it either way.

Hippocratic Oath -- Classical Version

I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfil according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:

To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art - if they desire to learn it - without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no one else.

I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.

Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about.

If I fulfil this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.

Some doctors do in fact take the Hippocratic Oath, (ironically it also forbids surgery) most take a modern version that has much more bearing on and reality associated with it...


This oath:

1. To teach medicine to the sons of my teacher.

2. To practice and prescribe to the best of my ability for the good of my patients, and to try to avoid harming them.

3. Never to do deliberate harm to anyone for anyone else's interest.

4. To avoid violating the morals of my community.

5. To avoid attempting to do things that other specialists can do better.

6. To keep the good of the patient as the highest priority.

7. To avoid sexual relationships or other inappropriate entanglements with patients and families.


This doctor violated principles 2, 3, 4, and 5.

[RoyalShock]

This doctor violated principles 2, 3, 4, and 5.

What if he believes she may be carrying a fertilized egg that, based on his beliefs qualifies as a human life and also his patient by proxy?

[Mckarnin]

2. To practice and prescribe to the best of my ability for the good of my patients, and to try to avoid harming them.

Perhaps he sees the potential child and the woman as his patients.

3. Never to do deliberate harm to anyone for anyone else's interest.

If you believe that a fertilized egg is a human being than you do are harming it in the woman's interest.

4. To avoid violating the morals of my community.

Again, what community is this? Some could say that your church is part of your community.

5. To avoid attempting to do things that other specialists can do better.

Not sure why you think he violated this one. Perhaps you meant 6 in which case again, he might see 2 patients sitting on the exam table.







Some doctors do in fact take the Hippocratic Oath, (ironically it also forbids surgery) most take a modern version that has much more bearing on and reality associated with it...


This oath:

1. To teach medicine to the sons of my teacher.

2. To practice and prescribe to the best of my ability for the good of my patients, and to try to avoid harming them.

3. Never to do deliberate harm to anyone for anyone else's interest.

4. To avoid violating the morals of my community.

5. To avoid attempting to do things that other specialists can do better.

6. To keep the good of the patient as the highest priority.

7. To avoid sexual relationships or other inappropriate entanglements with patients and families.


This doctor violated principles 2, 3, 4, and 5.

[Hiki]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MrXvDXVhqfU

You might want to check this (http://youtube.com/watch?v=3Djohakx_FE&feature=related) out too.

[foofighter20x]

you know, she should have asked to see a nurse practitioner since most of them are female, and likely sympathetic...


...and can typically provide family planning services.

[Ozwest]

A fertilized egg ( 24 hours old ).

Is not a human being.

[Ozwest]

You are merely preventing a fertilized egg from attaching itself to the uterus.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

What if he believes she may be carrying a fertilized egg that, based on his beliefs qualifies as a human life and also his patient by proxy?

Then he's a moron.

[Theocrat]

Then he's a moron.

Yeah, just like Congressman Paul (http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/life-and-liberty/). ;)

[Unspun]

2. To practice and prescribe to the best of my ability for the good of my patients, and to try to avoid harming them.

Perhaps he sees the potential child and the woman as his patients.

3. Never to do deliberate harm to anyone for anyone else's interest.

If you believe that a fertilized egg is a human being than you do are harming it in the woman's interest.

4. To avoid violating the morals of my community.

Again, what community is this? Some could say that your church is part of your community.

5. To avoid attempting to do things that other specialists can do better.

Not sure why you think he violated this one. Perhaps you meant 6 in which case again, he might see 2 patients sitting on the exam table.

Took the words out of my mouth!

[ARealConservative]

Then he's a moron.

In the end, my moronic beleifs are all I really have. They are mine and I would like to keep them and be free to act on them.

I thought Libertarians were cool with that.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Yeah, just like Congressman Paul (http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/life-and-liberty/). ;)

Ha. Well, Dr. Ron Paul was a gynecologist, right? He didn't even perform any surgeries.

[Unspun]

Ha. Well, Dr. Ron Paul was a gynecologist, right? He didn't even perform any surgeries.

You don't need to be a surgeon to prescribe birth control pills.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

In the end, my moronic beleifs are all I really have. They are mine and I would like to keep them and be free to act on them.

I thought Libertarians were cool with that.

lol. Alrighty, my friend. Just know that the life sitting in front of you is more important than the tadpole in her pelvic cavity.

[Ozwest]

You don't need to be a surgeon to prescribe birth control pills.

Nice call.:D

[literatim]

A fertilized egg ( 24 hours old ).

Is not a human being.

It becomes human at the point of fertilization which is when the dna of the individual is formed.

[Ozwest]

It becomes human at the point of fertilization which is when the dna of the individual is formed.

Horse - Hockey.

You are a idiot.

[ARealConservative]

Horse - Hockey.

You are a idiot.

"an" would be the non-idiotic version of your reply. :D

[Ozwest]

You could lick my scrotum, and get more life - forms.

[ARealConservative]

You could lick my scrotum, and get more life - forms.

None will ever go on and possess sentient ability. Hell, the jury is still out on you.

[Ozwest]

None will ever go on and possess sentient ability. Hell, the jury is still out on you.

Get stuffed.

Go find your jury.

Scrotum breath.

[ARealConservative]

Get stuffed.

Go find your jury.

Scrotum breath.

lie forms don't mean squat.

Nobody is crying when we mow the grass you dumb ass.

So next time you want to talk about life forms clinging to your stinking cubicles, keep it to yourself, or we might just kick you straight in the cubicles for good luck.

[Ozwest]

I prefer to treat women equally.

[ARealConservative]

my cat's breath smells like cat food.

[Ozwest]

lie forms don't mean squat.

Nobody is crying when we mow the grass you dumb ass.

So next time you want to talk about life forms clinging to your stinking cubicles, keep it to yourself, or we might just kick you straight in the cubicles for good luck.

I really got to you.

Success!:)

[ARealConservative]

I really got to you.

Success!:)

not quite yet....but thanks for sharing your purpose.

Now you might want to go look up the definition of trolling and compare it to your stated purpose here.

[Ozwest]

my cat's breath smells like cat food.

I've been banned from using the word " pussy ," so I won't repeat it again.

[Ozwest]

not quite yet....but thanks for sharing your purpose.

Now you might want to go look up the definition of trolling and compare it to your stated purpose here.


You might learn to appreciate a shit-stirrer.

Later in life...

[Theocrat]

Has it ever occurred to anyone that those who support abortion are already born? They don't want to give the baby in the womb a fair chance to leave the womb alive, even though these pro-death proponents were blessed with that same opportunity. Absolutely pathetic.

[Kade]

Has it ever occurred to anyone that those who support abortion are already born? They don't want to give the baby in the womb a fair chance to leave the womb alive, even though these pro-death proponents were blessed with that same opportunity. Absolutely pathetic.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Modest_Proposal

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Has it ever occurred to anyone that those who support abortion are already born? They don't want to give the baby in the womb a fair chance to leave the womb alive, even though these pro-death proponents were blessed with that same opportunity. Absolutely pathetic.

Why do you care about the fetus of other people, when you don't feel the same compassion for bums on the street? That's a bit hypocritical. If you love all life, you should be willing to allow bums to sleep in your house.

[Hiki]

Has it ever occurred to anyone that those who support abortion are already born? They don't want to give the baby in the womb a fair chance to leave the womb alive, even though these pro-death proponents were blessed with that same opportunity. Absolutely pathetic.

As Joseph's sig says: "How come when it’s us, it’s an abortion, and when it’s a chicken, it’s an omelette?" -George Carlin

[acptulsa]

not quite yet....but thanks for sharing your purpose.

Now you might want to go look up the definition of trolling and compare it to your stated purpose here.

Funny, I thought you had to actively try to be counter-productive to be a troll. I see our patriotic expatriot as more of a cowboy who's just trying (with greater or lesser success) to keep the dogies movin' in the right direction.

Am I really the only one here who doesn't consider the fact that the child was conceived by rape to be extremely, vitally relevant?

[acptulsa]

As Joseph's sig says: "How come when it’s us, it’s an abortion, and when it’s a chicken, it’s an omelette?" -George Carlin

Good for a laugh, yes. But consider the murder/buffalo wing dichotomy.

[amy31416]

As Joseph's sig says: "How come when it’s us, it’s an abortion, and when it’s a chicken, it’s an omelette?" -George Carlin

This might be nit-picking, but I don't think the chicken's eggs that you buy in a store are fertilized. Beyond that, if you eat chicken, you should obviously be okay with eating their eggs.

[Ozwest]

Men who continually attempt to make decisions for women, should mind their own fucking business.

Unless they are the father.

[acptulsa]

Men who continually attempt to make decisions for women, should mind their own fucking business.

Unless they are the father.

...in which case they can certainly claim that it is their fucking business.








Sorry.

[Hiki]

This might be nit-picking, but I don't think the chicken's eggs that you buy in a store are fertilized. Beyond that, if you eat chicken, you should obviously be okay with eating their eggs.

No if you leave the chicken and it's eggs alone then they will hatch and voilá we have new live chickens.

[Hiki]

Men who continually attempt to make decisions for women, should mind their own fucking business.

Unless they are the father.

I have to disagree. It IS the woman's business. The father isn't the one carrying a payload in his stomach for 9 months and then through hours of screaming and pain and blood exiting a baby.

[Ozwest]

I have to disagree. It IS the woman's business. The father isn't the one carrying a payload in his stomach for 9 months and then through hours of screaming and pain and blood exiting a baby.

For fucks sake.

No wonder men go to Asia!

[acptulsa]

I have to disagree. It IS the woman's business. The father isn't the one carrying a payload in his stomach for 9 months and then through hours of screaming and pain and blood exiting a baby.

Rather stereotypical to assume that men can have no emotional attachment to their offspring, isn't it? Perhaps a bit unfair that because they aren't able to do what you describe they have no right to their feelings?

A rapist has no right to those feelings. He has shown no respect and deserves none. At all. Otherwise, people should have respect for each other--enough to be careful, at least.

[Hiki]

Rather stereotypical to assume that men can have no emotional attachment to their offspring, isn't it? Perhaps a bit unfair that because they aren't able to do what you describe they have no right to their feelings?

A rapist has no right to those feelings. He has shown no respect and deserves none. At all. Otherwise, people should have respect for each other--enough to be careful, at least.

I didn't say that. I'm just saying that it is the ultimate decision of the woman, but of course in a relationship the father has voice too.

[Unspun]

No if you leave the chicken and it's eggs alone then they will hatch and voilá we have new live chickens.

Do you eat human fetus' for sustenance?

[amy31416]

No if you leave the chicken and it's eggs alone then they will hatch and voilá we have new live chickens.

I have absolutely no experience with live chickens, but I thought that chickens would lay eggs whether or not there was a rooster around. I could easily be completely wrong on that though.

[Hiki]

Do you eat human fetus' for sustenance?

No but Tom Cruise does.

[acptulsa]

No but Tom Cruise does.

Mumpf. This topic just gets hotter and hotter.

Actually, Amy, I think the hens can't keep the eggs coming without the rooster. They are a royal pain, but if you want omelets...

[amy31416]

Mumpf. This topic just gets hotter and hotter.

Actually, Amy, I think the hens can't keep the eggs coming without the rooster. They are a royal pain, but if you want omelets...

Heh, like I said, I could be entirely wrong, and likely am. :)

[acptulsa]

Heh, like I said, I could be entirely wrong, and likely am. :)

Nope. You're right. Again. As usual. :)

[Theocrat]

Why do you care about the fetus of other people, when you don't feel the same compassion for bums on the street? That's a bit hypocritical. If you love all life, you should be willing to allow bums to sleep in your house.

As a matter of fact, I do care about bums on the street. I have enough compassion on them to encourage them to get a job (if they're able to work) and to lead them to a church or charitable organization which can assist them in meeting their financial needs in the short-term. Pro-life, for me, isn't just about life in the womb; it also extends to life outside of the womb, whether it's a baby or a bum.


As Joseph's sig says: "How come when it’s us, it’s an abortion, and when it’s a chicken, it’s an omelette?" -George Carlin

Because a human and a chicken are two different entities. We don't eat humans (abomination) because we value human life as creatures of God, and chickens are animals which God created for us humans to eat. This is like comparing apples and oranges, Hiki. Of course, a man as dull-headed about morality as George Carlin was, would have difficulty distinguishing between the two, in my opinion.

[Ozwest]

As a matter of fact, I do care about bums on the street. I have enough compassion on them to encourage them to get a job (if they're able to work) and to lead them to a church or charitable organization which can assist them in meeting their financial needs in the short-term. Pro-life, for me, isn't just about life in the womb; it also extends to life outside of the womb, whether it's a baby or a bum.



Because a human and a chicken are two different entities. We don't eat humans (abomination) because we value human life as creatures of God, and chickens are animals which God created for us humans to eat. This is like comparing apples and oranges, Hiki. Of course, a man as dull-headed about morality as George Carlin was, would have difficulty distinguishing between the two, in my opinion.

How condescending.

You need a good snot.

[Theocrat]

How condescending.

You need a good snot.

I need a "good snot?"

[Ozwest]

I need a "good snot?"

Think about it.

[Roxi]

this debate is really rediculous

the doctor has a right to refuse to go against his moral grounds and not give her the pill

she has the right to drive to another doctor or PLANNED PARENTHOOD GIVES THEM OUT FOR FREE


saying "this is why healthcare should not be privatized" is about the dumbest statement i have ever heard. regulations will never please the masses... doctors should be able to make the decisions they see fit, and the patients should be able to drive to another damn doctor without sueing someone over it... this is EXACTLY why healthcare should be completely privatized

[SeanEdwards]

The root of the problem is the stupid laws that require adults to seek a doctors permission before taking meds. Competent adults should be free to ingest any damn thing they want.

[Ozwest]

The root of the problem is the stupid laws that require adults to seek a doctors permission before taking meds. Competent adults should be free to ingest any damn thing they want.

Agreed. 100%.

[SeanEdwards]

I have absolutely no experience with live chickens, but I thought that chickens would lay eggs whether or not there was a rooster around. I could easily be completely wrong on that though.

Chickens produce eggs non-stop, with or without rooster lovin.

[Acala]

The root of the problem is the stupid laws that require adults to seek a doctors permission before taking meds. Competent adults should be free to ingest any damn thing they want.

Problem solved! This is how freedom brings us together and excessive government tears us apart.

[Ozwest]

Amy,

On a farm.

Male animals are rare. Or they are knackered.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Amy,

On a farm.

Male animals are rare. Or they are knackered.

Why?

[Nirvikalpa]

A fertilized egg ( 24 hours old ).

Is not a human being.

The minute the sperm combines with the egg it has a total of 46 chromosomes, the magic number which makes us human.

The first mitosis the two gametes undergo when they come together is the fusion of their chromosomes (this is when they start to divide - this is when human life starts)...

It's a child before it even implants itself to the uterine wall (endometrium).

Just because it physically does not look like a child does not mean it isn't one - every line of DNA is coded to know exactly what part become an eye, a heart, or an arm. It's coded what the hair color will be, how long it will be, and whose nose the baby will have.

There are plenty of scientists who argue the fact that life beings at conception.

[Roxi]

I have absolutely no experience with live chickens, but I thought that chickens would lay eggs whether or not there was a rooster around. I could easily be completely wrong on that though.


this is true, but without the rooster the eggs aren't fertilized so no babies can grow in there

[Ozwest]

Why?

First, they don't produce.

And..

They interfere with the women-folk...

[asgardshill]

Why?

The female of the species usually produces stuff that can be sold (milk, eggs, baby critters). And since one male can fertilize multiple females and really have little intrinsic value other than their sperm, there are nowhere near as many males as females on any well-run farm. You don't keep a lot of roosters because they tend to fight amongst each other, their meat is boot-leather tough, one rooster can fertilize many hens, and they don't lay eggs. You don't keep a lot of bulls for the same reasons (except for the egg thing).

So yes, the males tend to get knackered first. Or if they're bulls, they get turned into steers (i.e. lose the berries part of their twig and berries) in order to calm them down and make their meat more tender and salable.

[Ozwest]

Bulls don't give milk.

Roosters don't lay eggs.

The list is endless.

[Ozwest]

Having owned free range chooks for a few years, I would allow a 1:12 ratio.

The girls seemed to be happier.

[Roxi]

Originally Posted by JosephTheLibertarian View Post
Why?

besides the above correct explanations, its also because the males generally have to be separated to keep fights from happening... you can't keep two bulls in one field so you either have to have a separate area built for each male animal that still has its "berries" or you cut off the berries, or you sell the animal before it reaches puberty

[SeanEdwards]

There are plenty of scientists who argue the fact that life beings at conception.

It certainly seems like the logical conclusion, given what is currently known about biology.

[Ozwest]

It certainly seems like the logical conclusion, given what is currently known about biology.


Sean,

We don't want to talk ourselves out of existence.

A couple of us have to do the knackering.