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View Full Version : Why will Naomi Wolf be at the Revolution March?




yaz
06-29-2008, 01:29 AM
Naomi Wolf is a liberal Democrat. She is a militant feminist and pro-abortion. Not to mention she wrote this beautiful article on why she voted for Barack Obama:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/why-barack-obama-got-my-v_b_89017.html?page=4

Kludge
06-29-2008, 01:31 AM
You're joking, right? Who invited Wolf? She's the bizzarro Ann Coulter.

DRV45N05
06-29-2008, 02:00 AM
Naomi Wolff is a very strong proponent of civil liberties and the Bill of Rights. She also wrote a terrific piece for HuffPo praising Ron Paul and his introduction of the American Freedom Agenda Act (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/finally-action-ron-pau_b_69042.html).

Conza88
06-29-2008, 02:34 AM
She needs to be uninvited. I'll call her from Australia if no-one wants too, and deliver the message myself.

Obama supporter. Sell out. If she is a strong proponent of civil liberties and the Bill of Rights - then why's she supporting a candidate that is against her beliefs? Someone ask her what she thinks of Obama now.. FISA eh?

JKap
06-29-2008, 06:06 AM
Maybe she'll be announcing her conversion to libertarianism like Bob Barr did.

Oyate
06-29-2008, 06:10 AM
I think the thinking was that we wanted to reach out to Ron Paul democrats and help build their base. Wolf has done a good job of spreading the word about the rise of the fascist empire in America and we found her sympathetic to a number of our other issues.

It was the same thinking when we were talking about Mike Gravel, but I think that discussion got muddied up a bit too late and we were booked solid.

At any rate, Wolf isn't the only speaker who bridges the "right-left divide". And that was the thinking.

asgardshill
06-29-2008, 06:14 AM
"Why will Naomi Wolf be at the Revolution March?"

Because it would be a shame to let all those rotten vegetables go to waste.

Conza88
06-29-2008, 06:29 AM
I think the thinking was that we wanted to reach out to Ron Paul democrats and help build their base. Wolf has done a good job of spreading the word about the rise of the fascist empire in America and we found her sympathetic to a number of our other issues.

It was the same thinking when we were talking about Mike Gravel, but I think that discussion got muddied up a bit too late and we were booked solid.

At any rate, Wolf isn't the only speaker who bridges the "right-left divide". And that was the thinking.

Ok, at least there was thinking involved. I can support that then. It's just a shame there needs to be someone to push the false left-right paradigm I guess.

Really hope she explains herself... I mean, she must only think its Bush - who is doing this; and America will be fine after Obama? Is elected.... AND that, 'my friends' is fken retarded.

tonesforjonesbones
06-29-2008, 09:06 AM
That woman is terrible...can you say zionist?? TONES

Danke
06-29-2008, 09:30 AM
Maybe her speech will be a lecture on porn. (http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/trends/n_9437/)

"In the end, porn doesn't whet men's appetites—it turns them off the real thing." by Naomi Wolf

Kludge
06-29-2008, 09:39 AM
Maybe her speech will be a lecture on porn. (http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/trends/n_9437/)

"In the end, porn doesn't whet men's appetites—it turns them off the real thing." by Naomi Wolf

Awwe... Poor girl. So much is understood now.

Jamsie 567
06-29-2008, 09:59 AM
I think Mike Gravel being uninvited over this Obama supporter is a mistake but oh well. I think we need the big names not the guppies in the pond.

Kludge
06-29-2008, 10:00 AM
I think Mike Gravel being uninvited over this Obama supporter is a mistake but oh well. I think we need the big names not the guppies in the pond.

Mike Gravel is coming too...? :(

Paulite
06-29-2008, 12:46 PM
good . SHE NEEDS TO BE THERE. we need naomi wolf. who cares if she is a democrat. get the F out of here with your labels. that kind of people didnt vote for ron paul because he is a republican eventhough ron paul share their views 100%. drop the THE GOD DAMN LABELS and maybe this movement will actually grow some legs

Jane_Aitken
06-29-2008, 01:17 PM
People like Naomi are why many people like myself will NOT be there.

It's not about Left/Right, it's about who is a good person.

How do you know she won't speechify about BO?

I don't trust her as far as I can throw her.

...and Gravel, well he's just a nutcase. Not going to help the cause for sure.

Peace&Freedom
06-29-2008, 01:18 PM
She needs to be there, stop the intolerance! Hopefully, especially given his obvious cave-in on many issues in recent weeks, Wolf may have edged away from her Obama-love. But even if she hasn't, to advance the Revolution, Democrats as well as Republicans have to be engaged! The conversion of the nation into an outright fascist state if of concern to the left, right, center, libertarian and any other faction, and is of significant interst to Paul supporters. All such issues of major concern to the movement should be represented at the march.

SicSemper
06-29-2008, 01:21 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing her speak. I saw her lecture on her book about the 10 steps to fascism and found it insightful. She does seem a bit liberal, but atleast she's open minded and honest about her views. I am interested in hearing what she has to say and I don't understand why people are so opposed to her.

Shes only speaking, its not like we're electing her or anything - you don't have to agree with everything or even most of what she stands for.

Oyate
06-29-2008, 02:28 PM
It's actually kind of the latest thing. Heard about this ACLU coalition and CFL is in on it? Pretty soon it's going to be hip to talk to democrats.

"Hey, one of my best friends is a liberal!"

Scofield
06-29-2008, 02:57 PM
Why is Mike Gravel a nutcase?

Kludge
06-29-2008, 03:11 PM
Why is Mike Gravel a nutcase?

He went to a Libertarian debate and called for Universal Healthcare. Fail.

The_Orlonater
06-29-2008, 03:34 PM
He went to a Libertarian debate and called for Universal Healthcare. Fail.

Lmao. :D

Oyate
06-29-2008, 03:59 PM
He went to a Libertarian debate and called for Universal Healthcare. Fail.

Yeah that was kind of a gag. It takes people so long to just get what we're about. But there you go. Gravel is a dem, so that's what they do. Wolf is a lib so....

oh man, I'm still laughing about that quote in a previous post. What did she say about men and porno? Like has she ever MET any men? I want to see the field research on that one. Hells, I WANT TO TAKE PART IN THE FIELD RESEARCH on that one.

I'm probably gonna get in deep poop for this post. Gotta have a sense of humor....I hope...

CUnknown
06-29-2008, 09:13 PM
This whole thread is really mind-boggling...

Did you not read her book, "End of America"? She cares as much about civil liberties and the Constitution as anyone in the Ron Paul movement. You hate feminists so much that you would refuse to fight alongside one for freedom and peace?

The Wolf-detractors here need to grow up and get their priorities straight.

One of the most important things about the Ron Paul movement is that it is a -welcoming- movement that wants to bring as many people as possible to the cause of freedom -- no matter if they are men, women, feminist, traditional, liberal, conservative, on and on.. We care about liberty, peace, and prosperity, not these meaningless labels!

Nirvikalpa
06-29-2008, 09:37 PM
Yeah that was kind of a gag. It takes people so long to just get what we're about. But there you go. Gravel is a dem, so that's what they do. Wolf is a lib so....

oh man, I'm still laughing about that quote in a previous post. What did she say about men and porno? Like has she ever MET any men? I want to see the field research on that one. Hells, I WANT TO TAKE PART IN THE FIELD RESEARCH on that one.

I'm probably gonna get in deep poop for this post. Gotta have a sense of humor....I hope...

There's scientific evidence that proves (some of her) point, actually :) Google it.

Dopamine, Oxytocin, Seratonin, nuerotransmitters... good stuff.

Don't like her as person, though. But I'll listen to her speech, and won't disrespect her because I think I'm better than that.

Oyate
06-29-2008, 09:52 PM
The Wolf-detractors here need to grow up and get their priorities straight.

I know, I apologize. I stand by our decision to have invited her, she's NOT getting uninvited and she'll be received with all cordiality. And I very much look forward to meeting her.

Sometimes ya just gotta have a sense of humor is all. If you find my humor unacceptable, maybe a good joke will lighten your mood.

These two lesbians were walking down the street.........

Conza88
06-29-2008, 10:09 PM
Did you not read her book, "End of America"? She cares as much about civil liberties and the Constitution as anyone in the Ron Paul movement.

The Wolf-detractors here need to grow up and get their priorities straight.

One of the most important things about the Ron Paul movement is that it is a -welcoming- movement that wants to bring as many people as possible to the cause of freedom -- no matter if they are men, women, feminist, traditional, liberal, conservative, on and on.. We care about liberty, peace, and prosperity, not these meaningless labels!

It's on my shelf with the other 30 books I've ordered since the movement.
I take back my uninviting her comment, that would mostly be rude regardless of who it is..

If you don't understand the problem, you can't offer the solution. Simple. She voted for Obama <-- I mean REALLLY, I shouldn't have to say anymore...

Let her talk, but if she starts going on about Bush & we need a democrat in the White House.. someone cut her mike, then pleasantly explain she has no idea what shes talking about...

Actually... is G. Edward Griffin talking? Make sure he talks right after her... hahahaha. "One party system; two faces of evil" is what she needs to hear.

CUnknown
06-29-2008, 11:03 PM
Conza88 -

I agree with you 100% that most liberals are under a delusion that Obama will bring some kind of change to our government. But, these are intellegent people. It's like a form of mass-hysteria. I'm a liberal myself, to be completely forthcoming. I think Obama would be better than McCain, so I can understand where Wolf is coming from (although I'd never vote for Obama in a million years). I respect Wolf very much, I think she is very intellegent... but she is simply deluded with regards to Obama (and the Democrats in general).

I just think it's so important to realize that we need -more- of the Obama crowd at this march, not less. These are precisely the people we need to reach out to.

There is a lot of dissatisfaction on both the right and the left these days, something we all know. These people on the left, these Obama supporters, they want change as bad as we do. If we can reach out to them, eventually, with a lot of effort, they will be some of our strongest allies.

The best thing that can happen is for Obama to win the White House, and then fail spectacularly (as we know he will). At that point the liberals might start to wake up and realize we need 3rd parties in this country. Then, we can join forces with them and create the political landscape of the future.

RonPaulFanInGA
06-29-2008, 11:15 PM
I think Mike Gravel being uninvited....

Woah, Mike Gravel was actually invited to the Revolution March at one point? :eek:

Glad he was uninvited. What a mistake that would have been.

Conza88
06-29-2008, 11:43 PM
There is a lot of dissatisfaction on both the right and the left these days, something we all know. These people on the left, these Obama supporters, they want change as bad as we do. If we can reach out to them, eventually, with a lot of effort, they will be some of our strongest allies.

The best thing that can happen is for Obama to win the White House, and then fail spectacularly (as we know he will). At that point the liberals might start to wake up and realize we need 3rd parties in this country. Then, we can join forces with them and create the political landscape of the future.

"There is a lot of dissatisfaction on both the right and the left these days, something we all know." No, because there is no such thing. They are false paradigms. They only exist in ignorance. We need to shatter that, if you hope to wake these clowns up.

And No, you don't become an "ally" of the movement. You either JOIN or you don't. You're either for Liberty, or for the status quo.

I hope that scenario plays out... i.e people waking up under an Obama presidency. I SERIOUSLY doubt it though. They KNOW, whats he's going to offer - global poverty act, FISA, growth in government... putting him in power isn't going to change these people's mindsets...

A lot of people are voting for him because he is "change" and that "change" is because he is black. Will him becoming POTUS, change his skin color?

Seriously: THIS is what we face. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wPDg9y_bpM) DO THESE PEOPLE - seem intelligent too you? We're going after the supporters remember; not the lame stream media spokeman/women.

So you believe that when Obama takes power and fails; he's suddenly going to lose his ability of Rhetoric? You think he's not going to blame the previous administration... or speculators?? Or the boogeyman in Iran? You really think that?
Wow... well I don't.

Oyate
06-30-2008, 01:06 AM
Woah, Mike Gravel was actually invited to the Revolution March at one point? :eek:

That whole thing was an unfortunate misunderstanding. We had this guy on the coordinator team, and I guess he shopped the subject of Gravel to the board, and basically while some of us liked the idea, the board never achieved consensus, Gravel was never approved as a speaker. BUT meanwhile, this guy on the coordinator team went ahead and did a deal with the Gravel people.

At least that's the way I heard it. The speaker list isn't my field of concentration so frankly I'd forgot about the whole thing until the whole Gravel hoopla ensued. Frankly, I was for Gravel speaking, I think the guy is a hoot! Man, he has a sense of humor. He could even have taken a bit of good natured booing. He's really popular with a LOT of people and I'm sure people would have loved meeting him.

I guess I'm glad the board also voted down my friend the Haitian Voudoo priest. I wanted him to come and put a curse on the evil white man so that the Duppy would come and steal their souls when they sleep.

Seeing your responses here, I guess that wouldn't have gone over too well either.

yaz
06-30-2008, 03:40 AM
This whole thread is really mind-boggling...

Did you not read her book, "End of America"? She cares as much about civil liberties and the Constitution as anyone in the Ron Paul movement. You hate feminists so much that you would refuse to fight alongside one for freedom and peace?

The Wolf-detractors here need to grow up and get their priorities straight.

One of the most important things about the Ron Paul movement is that it is a -welcoming- movement that wants to bring as many people as possible to the cause of freedom -- no matter if they are men, women, feminist, traditional, liberal, conservative, on and on.. We care about liberty, peace, and prosperity, not these meaningless labels!

I never said I hated anyone. She is not fighting for us. This reminds me of when we sent flowers to Ann Coulter. People like Wolf will only detract from our movement and the message we are trying to give to the masses. I know several dozen Ron Paul supporters who refuse to go to the march because Wolf is speaking. Apparently in your eyes the potential of democrats going to see Wolf is more important than the fact that we're alienating our base of support. Don't be rude and attack me personally by saying that I need to "grow up." Stick to the fact that Wolf is not a qualified person to be speaking at this event. Labels don't matter but it's a good indicator of what they believe. When looking into what Wof believes it is not in sync... in fact it is way off... from what we stand for.

Lets not alienate our base of support by inviting people that don't represent our views. What's next, inviting Bill O' Riley to speak? Instead lets invite them to attend. You don't have to be rude when telling Wolf that there is not enough support for her to speak at the event.

People don't change. Ann Coulter hasn't changed because of the flowers and Wolf won't change because we give her time to spread a message that is not in sync with our own!

Oyate
06-30-2008, 04:41 AM
IThis reminds me of when we sent flowers to Ann Coulter.

We sent flowers to Ann Coulter?

Man, fist time I ever felt sorry for flowers.....

Oyate
06-30-2008, 04:54 AM
The heck with it, I might as well say something definitive because all this joking around is going to get me boiled in hot oil.

Another team might have been more puristic or whatever, but this team ended up having an inclusive streak. It's reflected in our website, in our speaker list, in pretty much everything we do. And not like these types of things weren't hotly debated, but in the end you reach agreement and at a certain point the schedule gets full and you turn around and say "well that could have gone worse". We wanted the speakers to describe something about the scope and dimension of the whole movement.

You know, the movement has been around a lot longer than RPR. A lot of people were alienated by the whole RPR thing. Now we have all this new blood and they aren't going to pick things up overnight. Broadly, the March is about bringing us all back together.

asgardshill
06-30-2008, 05:18 AM
We sent flowers to Ann Coulter?

Man, fist time I ever felt sorry for flowers.....

We'd have done much better sending her a cheeseburger, fries and chocolate shake. I'm still trying to figure out which health club she attends - Auschwitz or Dachau.

Ozwest
06-30-2008, 05:22 AM
A detractor of fascism is always welcome.

Ozwest
06-30-2008, 05:23 AM
No reason to be insular.

CUnknown
06-30-2008, 12:51 PM
Conza88 said:

And No, you don't become an "ally" of the movement. You either JOIN or you don't. You're either for Liberty, or for the status quo.

Did you just say, "You're either with us or you're against us"? :(


They KNOW, whats he's going to offer - global poverty act, FISA, growth in government...

They really don't know, unfortunately. They hope for more. They are allowing their hopes to overcome their reason.


So you believe that when Obama takes power and fails; he's suddenly going to lose his ability of Rhetoric? You think he's not going to blame the previous administration... or speculators?? Or the boogeyman in Iran? You really think that?

Bush, FOX news, and Rove still have their power of Rhetoric. But, the American people are smarter than that, and they are starting to see through it now. Bush's presidency, and really modern neo-conservatism has been shown to be a complete failure, and no amount of rhetoric is going to change that, or raise Bush's approval rating out of the sewer.

Why aren't liberals seeing through the rhetoric of neo-liberalism? Because it hasn't utterly failed yet. Clinton's presidency was a success, the best since Reagan. So, the Dems are most likely going to get another shot at it with Obama. When he fails, people will hopefully start to look for other options. And the Ron Paul people need to be there when that happens. We can't be pushing them away, we need to be inviting them in.


yaz said:

She is not fighting for us.

She's fighting for the Constitution. She's fighting for civil liberties. She's fighting for peace. She's fighting to impeach Bush/Cheney. She is fighting on our side whether you wish to admit that or not.


I know several dozen Ron Paul supporters who refuse to go to the march because Wolf is speaking.

I'm sorry if I'm being rude, but these people need to realize what is going on. They need to maybe mature a little bit. This sort of behavior does not help the Revolution move forward, but backwards towards irrelevance.


Stick to the fact that Wolf is not a qualified person to be speaking at this event.

She is highly qualified, more so than probably many of the other speakers, and it's important, imo, that she be there.


Lets not alienate our base of support by inviting people that don't represent our views.

The 'base of support' is alienating itself by refusing to believe that they could possibly have something in common with a liberal feminist.


Wolf won't change because we give her time to spread a message that is not in sync with our own!

Why do you believe that she needs to change? She is fighting as hard as any of us for peace and freedom. You should respect her enough to allow her to vote for Obama and not think badly of her. I believe that, in time, she will come to realize that it was a mistake. We all make mistakes.

Oyate
06-30-2008, 12:53 PM
We'd have done much better sending her a cheeseburger, fries and chocolate shake. I'm still trying to figure out which health club she attends - Auschwitz or Dachau.

OMFG! Yer freaking killing me!

ThePieSwindler
06-30-2008, 03:06 PM
At least its not Naomi Klein...

Ozwest
06-30-2008, 03:09 PM
I disagree.

Her book is interesting

anaconda
06-30-2008, 03:54 PM
This whole thread is really mind-boggling...

Did you not read her book, "End of America"? She cares as much about civil liberties and the Constitution as anyone in the Ron Paul movement. You hate feminists so much that you would refuse to fight alongside one for freedom and peace?

The Wolf-detractors here need to grow up and get their priorities straight.

One of the most important things about the Ron Paul movement is that it is a -welcoming- movement that wants to bring as many people as possible to the cause of freedom -- no matter if they are men, women, feminist, traditional, liberal, conservative, on and on.. We care about liberty, peace, and prosperity, not these meaningless labels!

THANK YOU!

How can someone who is widely known for writing a popular book on creeping fascism not be welcome in our hopefully big tent of freedom? She is perhaps evolving as many of us are. She may evolve even more if she comes to the Freedom March and is exposed to the real people who make up the Revolution.

RonPaulFanInGA
06-30-2008, 04:14 PM
Naomi Wolf is a liberal Democrat. She is a militant feminist and pro-abortion. Not to mention she wrote this beautiful article on why she voted for Barack Obama:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/why-barack-obama-got-my-v_b_89017.html?page=4

Ouch.

I'm not sure I like the idea of any open John McCain or Barack Obama supporters speaking at the march. But oh well, it's not my decision. Why didn't Wolf vote for Paul? I'd like to hear her explain that....and see how many here who support her still do after whatever BS explanation she gives.

I realize the argument of "being an elitist" and "deciding who is for freedom and who is not"...but the thing is, like it or not, there is a litmus test. People have judgement.

Can Iraq war supporters be part of the freedom movement? People opposed/supportive of illegal aliens? People who believe in gun control? McCain voters? Obama voters? People who support the UN, the war on drugs and the PATRIOT act?

Where is the line?

Ozwest
06-30-2008, 04:20 PM
THANK YOU!

How can someone who is widely known for writing a popular book on creeping fascism not be welcome in our hopefully big tent of freedom? She is perhaps evolving as many of us are. She may evolve even more if she comes to the Freedom March and is exposed to the real people who make up the Revolution.


Spot on!

yaz
06-30-2008, 04:58 PM
Wolf does not understand the things we believe in. EVERYONE says they're for freedom and so forth but when you look up Wolf's writings etc, she's definitely not. What's next, are we going to invite Barack Obama to speak?

I can see it now. You: "He supports freedom and wants to get us out of Iraq."

So silly....

yaz
06-30-2008, 05:00 PM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=22627&highlight=ann+coulter+flowers

btw there's the thread where we started giving money to ann coulter even though she called us insane people that have escaped from the asylum in iowa. she still hasn't changed and hates freedom.

Ozwest
06-30-2008, 05:19 PM
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=22627&highlight=ann+coulter+flowers

btw there's the thread where we started giving money to ann coulter even though she called us insane people that have escaped from the asylum in iowa. she still hasn't changed and hates freedom.

Yaz,

Focus on the Republic. State rights. Community rights.

Fuck the Feds. Fuck the Media.

Start at home. Where you live. Flex yourself in your community/county/State.

From little things... Big things grow.

yaz
06-30-2008, 05:58 PM
Yaz,

Focus on the Republic. State rights. Community rights.

Fuck the Feds. Fuck the Media.

Start at home. Where you live. Flex yourself in your community/county/State.

From little things... Big things grow.

Why are you saying this to me randomly? What does that have to do with this thread?

Ozwest
06-30-2008, 06:00 PM
Why are you saying this to me randomly? What does that have to do with this thread?

Are you inspired?

Do something.

Ozwest
06-30-2008, 06:03 PM
Walk down to your local bureau of Shit.

And kick some ass!

Ozwest
06-30-2008, 06:05 PM
What do you and your neighbors want to achieve?

Get out there and be a citizen!

Ozwest
06-30-2008, 06:08 PM
Or...

Bitch about CNN.

Politicians.

From your lounge...

yaz
06-30-2008, 06:41 PM
I hope someone bans you. A small number of people have done as much as I have for this movement.

Ozwest
06-30-2008, 06:45 PM
I hope someone bans you. A small number of people have done as much as I have for this movement.

Guess what Yaz.

I don't care.

And you know diddly.

Precious.

Kludge
06-30-2008, 06:50 PM
I hope someone bans you. A small number of people have done as much as I have for this movement.

Pay him no mind, he's just bitching at you from his lounge ;)

Ozwest
06-30-2008, 06:53 PM
Pay him no mind, he's just bitching at you from his lounge ;)

I only scratch where it itches. :)

G-Wohl
06-30-2008, 07:40 PM
She is ... pro-abortion.]

I don't see how this has anything to do with the march. Since when was it un-libertarian to have a particular position on the abortion issue?

And please do not make yourself look like an ignorant fool by calling somebody "pro-abortion." You make it sound as if PRO-CHOICE individuals WANT people to have an abortion.

Ozwest
06-30-2008, 07:45 PM
I don't see how this has anything to do with the march. Since when was it un-libertarian to have a particular position on the abortion issue?

And please do not make yourself look like an ignorant fool by calling somebody "pro-abortion." You make it sound as if PRO-CHOICE individuals WANT people to have an abortion.


I consider myself a Libertarian

I also believe in a womans right to choose.

Kludge
06-30-2008, 07:45 PM
And please do not make yourself look like an ignorant fool by calling somebody "pro-abortion." You make it sound as if PRO-CHOICE individuals WANT people to have an abortion.

I personally prefer the label "anti-life"... Makes me sound like a badass.

Ozwest
06-30-2008, 07:48 PM
I personally prefer the label "anti-life"... Makes me sound like a badass.

Fucking hell!

I'm FALLING OUT OF MY CHAIR.

JS4Pat
06-30-2008, 08:08 PM
Read her latest book and you will understand why she needs to be there.
http://www.amazon.com/End-America-Letter-Warning-Patriot/dp/1933392797

She is wrong on her support for Obama but she is right on her message about civil liberties.

She is also good looking and has a lot of name recognition.

Good Choice!

We are a big tent movement!

steph3n
06-30-2008, 08:09 PM
hey bushie is very anti-life!

steph3n
06-30-2008, 08:10 PM
Read her latest book and you will understand why she needs to be there.
http://www.amazon.com/End-America-Letter-Warning-Patriot/dp/1933392797

She is wrong on her support for Obama but she is right on her message about civil liberties.

She is also good looking and has a lot of name recognition.

Good Choice!

We are a big tent movement!

she doesn't understand civil liberties are not to be granted by the government but inherent to life itself.

Conza88
06-30-2008, 08:15 PM
Did you just say, "You're either with us or you're against us"? :(

Yea I did and before posting it I knew that would be queried. But unlike George Bush, the sentiment actually applies here. In his retarded world, you're either with him or against him.. but there is a third option, where you question his premises. In this context, I am saying; you are for liberty and doing what you can to see it happen or you're actions are doing nothing and/or you are helping maintain the status quo.


They really don't know, unfortunately. They hope for more. They are allowing their hopes to overcome their reason.

My point was; what's going to CHANGE that? Barack Obama becoming president won't. Do some research on cognitive dissonance.

Research
Festinger first developed this theory in the 1950s to explain how members of a cult who were persuaded by their leader, a certain Mrs Keech, that the earth was going to be destroyed on 21st December and that they alone were going to be rescued by aliens, actually increased their commitment to the cult when this did not happen (Festinger himself had infiltrated the cult, and would have been very surprised to meet little green men). The dissonance of the thought of being so stupid was so great that instead they revised their beliefs to meet with obvious facts: that the aliens had, through their concern for the cult, saved the world instead. http://changingminds.org/explanations/theories/cognitive_dissonance.htm


Bush, FOX news, and Rove still have their power of Rhetoric. But, the American people are smarter than that, and they are starting to see through it now. Bush's presidency, and really modern neo-conservatism has been shown to be a complete failure, and no amount of rhetoric is going to change that, or raise Bush's approval rating out of the sewer.

Why aren't liberals seeing through the rhetoric of neo-liberalism? Because it hasn't utterly failed yet. Clinton's presidency was a success, the best since Reagan. So, the Dems are most likely going to get another shot at it with Obama. When he fails, people will hopefully start to look for other options. And the Ron Paul people need to be there when that happens. We can't be pushing them away, we need to be inviting them in.

No actually, they've lost most of their rhetoric. And they're not smarter than that, they're being pushed towards Obama and the democrats. It's their turn now... they're NOT the Republicans... ALL will be well in the state of Denmark... :rolleyes:

No, the whole rhetoric that was there for the War in Iraq etc. has shifted to Obama. The global elite need to real people back into the system. If they make the mistake of going with McCain - all the better for us! When the democrats do shit all to prevent the tyranny etc.... GOVERNMENT in GENERAL is going to cop the flak... it's going to be easier to point out, NONE of the parties are an option anymore.

yaz
06-30-2008, 08:54 PM
Well I've made my point. A lot of people agree with me and some people don't. I hope she says all the right things at the rally- which I doubt she will.

BenjFranklin
07-01-2008, 05:23 AM
I, for one, am glad she was invited. We need to UNITE people, not DIVIDE people. She speaks truth to the coming fascist state, that should be good enough for any of us.

Thanks to the organizers for all your hard work!

SnappleLlama
07-01-2008, 07:37 AM
Let her speak. We're an all-inclusive group, here.

acptulsa
07-01-2008, 08:19 AM
Let her speak. We're an all-inclusive group, here.

You bet. And if she gets out of line, heckle her to death like the troll she is! Have a nice verbal stoning!

SnappleLlama
07-01-2008, 08:19 AM
You bet. And if she gets out of line, heckle her to death like the troll she is! Have a nice verbal stoning!

LOL!!! Exactly! :D

ronpaulhawaii
07-01-2008, 08:23 AM
let her speak. We're an all-inclusive group, here.


you bet. And if she gets out of line, heckle her to death like the troll she is! Have a nice verbal stoning!

lol-

+1776

jmdrake
07-01-2008, 09:10 AM
Maybe her speech will be a lecture on porn. (http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/trends/n_9437/)

"In the end, porn doesn't whet men's appetites—it turns them off the real thing." by Naomi Wolf

I don't know if you put this up as a joke or not but it's actually a good and revealing (no pun intended) article. Andrea Dworkin wanted to use regulation to stop the "onslaught of pornography". Naomi Wolf is taking a "free market" approach. Stay away from porn if you want a good sex life. And the argument is pretty compelling. While I don't think Ron Paul agrees with everything Ms. Wolf says I think as a pro free market Christian he might like this.

Regards,

John M. Drake

Oyate
07-03-2008, 11:40 AM
I don't know if you put this up as a joke or not but it's actually a good and revealing (no pun intended) article. Andrea Dworkin wanted to use regulation to stop the "onslaught of pornography".

I don't know what it is about people and pr0n. The whole issue seems over-complicated to me. The pr0n industry is full of questionable characters, and people who feature themselves in pr0n just don't seem to be all that happy. On the other hand, those who suggest that pr0n makes you less into the real thing, I just don't know what they are talking about. Me and my pretty wife occasionally look at pictures. It makes things....hotter.

I think people look good with no clothes on. It's the way Creator made us. And I've hung out at nudist parties and know what? When everybody is running around naked, it's not sexual. It's just sort of natural. All the pretensions come off with the clothes. It's how we were born into this world. And I'm no swinger, I'm a total monogamist. But I know a swinger couple. My best friend Jason and his wife are swingers. They love each other totally, they just have different ways of having fun. They raised a son and he's a great young man. They are successful in business, they have a good life. They invited me and my woman to do the swinger thing but we don't roll like that. We're happy with who we are. I love my wife. But does that mean I don't look at other pretty women? Hells no, not as long as I got eyeballs in my head. I got these 2 photoreceptors in my head and they are geared to looking at pretty women. I come from a long line of ancestors who looked at pretty women. You probably do too.

What I just don't understand is why people go for this "proscriptive" game. Telling people what they should and should not do in the bedroom. I can't believe that there are people out there worrying about what happens between me and my wife behind closed doors.

Here and I thought the feminists and liberals wanted to divest themsevlves of Puritanism and controlling behavior, and here they are re-inventing the whole thing again. It makes no sense. People controlling us in the past is bad, so the new controlling behavior is good why? Because it's non-patriarchal and non-misogynist and nicer? The tyranny of men is undesirable so we go for the tyranny of women and that's supposed to be good?

I say that's just idiotic. Men are men. We're supposed to be the way we are: militant and aggressive. Women are women and they're they way they ought to be: caring and sometimes more sensible. We compliment each other that way. It's the way we brought our species along. It's why we're here now. Men fought, women nurtured and this is how we survive. If women were not attractive to us we'd have been finished as a species long ago. And we'd be recorded to the mountains as a species that was too stupid to get it up. Sorry to be graphic, but that's the way I see it.

Now as a parent we strictly monitor the kids internet behavior and when things get too bawdy on television, we tell them to change channels. I'd rather my son not sit around and surf pr0n because it's just not a healthy format for a 14 year old to learn about intimacy from pictures of woman old enough to be his mom. He should be out there learning how to date and make friends with girls his age. But am I gonna take a strap to him if I find him looking at pics of naked girls? Hells no. He's becoming a young man. He's learning how to put it all together. He's learning the great secret of being a man:

Boobs rule, but don't let them rule you.

GigiBowman
07-03-2008, 11:46 AM
I am glad she will be there.

Her book "The End of America - the 10 steps to facism" helped to bring the light to many people and she is one of the founders of the American Freedom Campaign.

What's the problem?

A lot of Ron Paul supporters --I have no idea why-- are voting for Obama, shocking as it may be.....it's the war issue for many.

Hopefully she will see the light and vote for Bob Barr.....but that doesn't take away from the fact that she wrote a very important book.

Oyate
07-03-2008, 11:54 AM
I am glad she will be there.

I am too. Besides all of this philosophy, the more this thread goes on, the more I'm convinced we did the right thing. If we can't tolerate those with different views, what good are we as a leadership movement?

What hope do we have to transform America if we don't support all Americans? Do we suppose America will put it's trust in us if they thing we don't even like them or can't accept them?

GigiBowman
07-03-2008, 12:21 PM
people like to take sides. It's the Hegelian Dialect over and over again.

no Oyate, we will not change anything if we can't assimilate with those who think differently on different ideals and philosophies.

The miraculous thing about Ron Paul is that he brought so many people together from different religions, races, political views, backgrounds, philosphies, et al. The Ron Paul Revolution has people from every walk of live and so often I see infighting and really it amazes me how no one gets along. You've got your 9/11 truthers and your anti-truthers, your pro israeli and anti-israeli, black, brown, red, yellow, muslim, catholic, jewish, protestant, buddist, white supremacist, democrat, libertarian, republican, independent, conservative....on and on and on.....and without Ron Paul at the core...it splits off into actual hate that I've seen amongst the different groups. It's frightening and ugly......

the only thing that we all have in common is liberty, the constitution, freedom.....

yet how can that be constituted as "Only"

It's so effiing sad what goes on....the splintering, fighting, hating, bashing of the "other" parts of the same group.

This is why we will never win if we don't have unity.

Funny how much more unity there is right now in the democratic party. They're winning too. Obama has so many fanitical supporters that would support him if he commited murder in front of the world they would say he didn't.

THe Ron Paul supporters are really just a bunch of different pegs who half the time won't try to fit on the same board.

I have to give the "truthers" kudos. I've watched so many "ZIP" for this revolution and treated so disrespectfully as if they were some alien nation....yet all they ever asked for was the "truth"......well, now is the time to get passed "you can't say that because if you do ROn Paul won't get elected" nonsense....speak up for liberty & truth and make sure the world hears you.

If you don't agree what a truther has to say...well, then say what you have to say....but how do you shut people up who are asking for truth....and how do you hypocritically say you won't join in the group for liberty, freedom & the constitution unless people you don't agree with keep it quiet....so you want freedom of speech but only for some? What the hell are you doing here then?

Everyone needs to WAKE UP NOW! Put your differences aside and think about WHAT IS IMPORTANT!

be sheep and let the pigs run your world....or get along with the other farm animals and let no one run your world!

WE ALL COUNT

JosephTheLibertarian
07-03-2008, 12:29 PM
Unless Wolf wants to have sex with me, I don't want her there.

Kade
07-03-2008, 12:31 PM
Naomi Wolf is a liberal Democrat. She is a militant feminist and pro-abortion. Not to mention she wrote this beautiful article on why she voted for Barack Obama:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/naomi-wolf/why-barack-obama-got-my-v_b_89017.html?page=4

Naomi Wolf is no different than me... some of you understand many, many things... some of you understand nothing. I imagine you are not one of the ones that see the light in this case.

Your attempts to boot liberals from the fold is rather despicable in an of itself... Her motivation is the same as mine... freedom.

She does a much better job of defending it than any of you on here pretend...

If she supports Ron Paul, than she has far more character and trustworthiness than I previously had given her...

Go read: The End of America: A Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot

Liberals are NOT your enemy...

Kade
07-03-2008, 12:34 PM
That woman is terrible...can you say zionist?? TONES

I hope the vast number of liberals that support Ron Paul catch on to the degree or absurd mental deficiency propagating from the conspiracy oriented Christian Conservative and anarcho-capitalist fringe of this movement... anyone still wonder why we lost Digg?

JosephTheLibertarian
07-03-2008, 12:37 PM
Unless Wolf wants to have sex with me, I don't want her there.

That goes for all of the women. lol...jk

Danke
07-03-2008, 12:44 PM
That goes for all of the women. lol...jk


Up the saltpeter! :p

JosephTheLibertarian
07-03-2008, 12:48 PM
Up the saltpeter! :p

lol. hey, why do women wear revealing clothes if they don't want sex? I never understood that. ;)

Danke
07-03-2008, 12:59 PM
lol. hey, why do women wear revealing clothes if they don't want sex? I never understood that. ;)

To distract you from having sex with other women? Naomi Wolf says porn discourages sex, so maybe that is why they reveal so much?

ronpaulhawaii
07-03-2008, 01:05 PM
LOL - google ads rock :D


http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/imgad?id=CJvB_-Wf9-O6dBDUAxgxMghiBRUZR0tmIQ

spudea
07-04-2008, 03:04 PM
how exactly do we spread the message if everyone at the rally is 100% die hard ron paul supporters? It does no good if we tell the choir how to sing...

We have to embrace open dialog. If wolf uses her speech to promote ideas contrary to this revolution, we need to be able to debate and explain why her ideas will not return our nation to the proper path.

klamath
07-04-2008, 08:12 PM
I think that if she keeps her topics to non partisan civil liberties she is welcome because our movement is about ideas not people or parties. However if she starts a anti republican, pro democrat diatribe it is time to booo her just like if a republican that supports civil liberties but starts speaking about how great the Iraq war is instead of civil liberties should be booed.

It is ideas not parties or labels. I know a lot on here want the rally to be about the libertarian Party but it isn't.

SeanEdwards
07-04-2008, 10:01 PM
Would she be acceptable if she is a liberal feminist troofer? Does troofiness trump feminaziness? :confused:

yaz
07-06-2008, 01:59 AM
how exactly do we spread the message if everyone at the rally is 100% die hard ron paul supporters? It does no good if we tell the choir how to sing...

We have to embrace open dialog. If wolf uses her speech to promote ideas contrary to this revolution, we need to be able to debate and explain why her ideas will not return our nation to the proper path.

those people should be invited to attend, not to speak.

Oyate
07-06-2008, 03:34 AM
those people should be invited to attend, not to speak.

But what would we have to argue about then?

Roxi
07-06-2008, 04:00 AM
i just came into this conversation sorry....

gravel is barely a step up from alan keyes

he wouldn't have showed up anyway, ive deemed him Mike "no show" Gravel because in NH there was a scheduled debate between RP and MG... and he backed out last minute, so we got to have a question answer with ron paul for like an hour or so

Oyate
07-06-2008, 02:03 PM
i just came into this conversation sorry....

gravel is barely a step up from alan keyes



Hoo boy that's bad. I like Gravel way more than Keyes. Gravel might be a liberal but you are talking about the guy who broke The Pentagon Papers. He was instrumental in getting us out of 'Nam. Keyes is a neocon, he supports neocons and the corrupt GOP. Gravel has fought the DNC establishment and he got a lot of truth out in debates. He knows more about the Constitution than all other DNC candidates put together. Even the so called "professor of Constitutional Law" Obama.

I really appreciated Gravel and Kucinich in debates. There was no other reason to watch the DNC debates.

GigiBowman
07-06-2008, 02:43 PM
Did any of you even read Naomi Wolf's book? If you did, you wouldn't even be asking why she should attend.

tonesforjonesbones
07-06-2008, 02:45 PM
zionist.

dantheman
07-07-2008, 07:43 AM
All this arguing about Naomi Wolf being there is really ridiculous. If you're willing to shut someone out of this movement based on minor, contradictory beliefs and putting labels on them (which don't mean anything), then you obviously haven't listened to Ron Paul's message and you haven't learned what this rEVOLution is all about.

I'd be surprised if any of her critics on this forum have actually read her book, which is fascinating by the way. You've probably read her blog, especially the Obama parts, and that's been your ammunition. She's said on several occasions how she likes Ron Paul and the enthusiasm he inspires. We all know we're far better organized and more passionate than Obama supporters and this weekend will firmly show everyone that, especially her.

So saying you're not going to be at the rally because of her is irrational on many levels. I even disagree with a few things Ron Paul has said over the years, but you don't see me whining and saying I'm not going to this historic event. Perhaps you can use that weekend to do some soul searching and determine what this movement will be about...reaching out to others, no matter what their beliefs, and hoping they'll join the side of freedom.

ronpaulhawaii
07-07-2008, 07:46 AM
All this arguing about Naomi Wolf being there is really ridiculous. If you're willing to shut someone out of this movement based on minor, contradictory beliefs and putting labels on them (which don't mean anything), then you obviously haven't listened to Ron Paul's message and you haven't learned what this rEVOLution is all about.

I'd be surprised if any of her critics on this forum have actually read her book, which is fascinating by the way. You've probably read her blog, especially the Obama parts, and that's been your ammunition. She's said on several occasions how she likes Ron Paul and the enthusiasm he inspires. We all know we're far better organized and more passionate than Obama supporters and this weekend will firmly show everyone that, especially her.

So saying you're not going to be at the rally because of her is irrational on many levels. I even disagree with a few things Ron Paul has said over the years, but you don't see me whining and saying I'm not going to this historic event. Perhaps you can use that weekend to do some soul searching and determine what this movement will be about...reaching out to others, no matter what their beliefs, and hoping they'll join the side of freedom.

+1

Thanks for posting :)

Kade
07-07-2008, 08:07 AM
Did any of you even read Naomi Wolf's book? If you did, you wouldn't even be asking why she should attend.

That's basically what I said...

Eric21ND
07-07-2008, 12:05 PM
Obama supporters are easier to convert than Bush bots anyway. And Wolf gave Ron Paul a lot of props in her speeches and writings.

Oyate
07-07-2008, 10:16 PM
Yeah and she's coming. No two ways about it. Done deal. Deal's been done for weeks. Any discussion here is purely academic.

yaz
07-08-2008, 06:22 AM
I just started this threat to open a friendly discussion about Wolf. I don't really mind her going too much, I just wanted to see everyone's thoughts. I was speaking for a lot of other people, and posting their concerns as well as my own. Sadly, many replies consisted of name calling, attacks on me personally, or were rude. (Dantheman, Ozwest, G-Wohl, etc)

Kludge
07-08-2008, 06:32 AM
I just started this threat to open a friendly discussion about Wolf. I don't really mind her going too much, I just wanted to see everyone's thoughts. I was speaking for a lot of other people, and posting their concerns as well as my own. Sadly, many replies consisted of name calling, attacks on me personally, or were rude. (Dantheman, Ozwest, G-Wohl, etc)

+1

You guys need to learn some manners. It takes a lot of work for us to restrain ourselves to maintain a civil discussion.

If you'd like to discuss this issue further, a cuddle party (http://youtube.com/watch?v=76Mf9LhRW7w) will need to be arranged.

dantheman
07-08-2008, 07:01 AM
I thought we all here had pretty tough skin and could take some criticism from our own brothers and sisters in the revolution. I hope I'm right. By the way, bashing Gravel has got to stop. I know most of us disagree with a few things from him here and there, but ya know he did do a little like filibuster the renewal of the draft back in the 70s. no biggie or anything...

Kludge
07-08-2008, 07:03 AM
I thought we all here had pretty tough skin and could take some criticism from our own brothers and sisters in the revolution. I hope I'm right. By the way, bashing Gravel has got to stop. I know most of us disagree with a few things from him here and there, but ya know he did do a little like filibuster the renewal of the draft back in the 70s. no biggie or anything...

I'm still stricken with awe that he went to a LP debate and then called for universal healthcare.

FindLiberty
07-08-2008, 07:12 AM
Honest debate is good, so encourage Naomi to speak and then answer questions / challenges.

I did not read her book, but I have enjoyed many other books by Claire Wolfe...
Does that somehow earn me any cuddle party points?

LibertyEagle
07-08-2008, 09:41 AM
The off-topic discussion about health care was split off and moved to The Vent.

RickyJ
07-08-2008, 11:45 AM
All this arguing about Naomi Wolf being there is really ridiculous. If you're willing to shut someone out of this movement based on minor

Did you say minor issues? No, Abortion is not a MINOR issue , it is a very MAJOR issue. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness belongs to all, not just those who don't need anyone to take care of them.

I am not going to this march to hear this bitch and will boo her if she has the gall to speak at the Revolution March. :mad:

GigiBowman
07-08-2008, 12:36 PM
Did you say minor issues? No, Abortion is not a MINOR issue , it is a very MAJOR issue. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness belongs to all, not just those who don't need anyone to take care of them.

I am not going to this march to hear this bitch and will boo her if she has the gall to speak at the Revolution March. :mad:

Wow, I guess you have to pick your fights and pick your causes. If abortion is your number one concern than I guess you want to make sure that you never come in contact with a Democrat anywhere, anyhow. You can live your life that way or you can understand that there are differences among us.

This March is about Freedom & Liberty. It's not about abortion, its not a rally for Obama. It's not a rally for Gay Marriage and it's not a rally for 9/11 truth...but I bet we find people from all over the spectrum there. You can spend your entire life hating everyone who doesn't think like you....or you can find the common ground and you can build on that.


and if you're not going to the march because you can't, you can't afford it or you have other obligations....ok, well, that's a real reason...but because Naomi is there....that's an excuse....you should be there if you want to help the cause for freedom. Naomi will be.

This is what Ron Paul has done. This man has brought people from every facet of life, together. He stepped out of the head of the equation and he made this movement about liberty, freedom and peace. Read Naomi Wolf's book and you'll see that she was pointing out to other's that our liberties are being taken away....and though you might not agree with this democrat on her stance on abortion...I bet you'll agree with her on how the government is taking away our freedoms. Next you won't be able to believe in anything because you will soon be told what you should believe.

The hate must end now. The sad thing I have noted about this Revolution is that it's a mixed neighborhood ready to rumble at any second. That is so effing sad.

WAKE UP RON PAUL SUPPORTERS AND UNITE! Stop hating! Stop making more sides and splitting into deeper and wider factions....because the farther apart we split...the easier it will be to lose in the end.

ronpaulhawaii
07-08-2008, 02:08 PM
I doubt many of the haters could actually be called supporters. A mix of provocateurs and hangers-on. The common detritus of any popular movement.

yaz
07-19-2008, 04:56 PM
Wolf was the best speaker at the march in my opinion but she veered off way too far to the left. Unfortunately, like a couple of the other speakers, she pushed a couple of talking points that focused on her own agenda instead of the RPR.

AxXiom
07-19-2008, 05:45 PM
Maybe her speech will be a lecture on porn. (http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/trends/n_9437/)

"In the end, porn doesn't whet men's appetites—it turns them off the real thing." by Naomi Wolf

Hey, when her book, "The Beauty Myth" came out this was the crap the feminist movement was peddling,

A commitment to sexual equality with males is a commitment to becoming the rich instead of the poor, the rapist instead of the raped, the murderer instead of the murdered.
Andrea Dworkin


I was to busy hunting camels to listen to her speech so I can only go by what I know but her "Letter of Warning..." book has made important issues accessible to many people who would not otherwise have paid attention.

I have a Pavlovian response to all things liberal and am really trying hard to overcome that-it's limiting and dilutes our power by creating little impotent political cliques. If a person is for restoring the Rule of Law, understands the danger of a fat-assed executive branch right now that is plenty to work together on. We cannot hope to educate others if we don't mingle. You never know, if you don't demean her she might come around. In the meantime she is respected among people innaccessable to us and she definitely has a few things right.

Truth is valuable and the oracle always unworthy.

Now, if you had mentioned that she's a Rhodes Scholar I would have kept my mouth shut.

Ahem..:rolleyes:
AxXiom

AxXiom
07-19-2008, 06:06 PM
Did you say minor issues? No, Abortion is not a MINOR issue , it is a very MAJOR issue. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness belongs to all, not just those who don't need anyone to take care of them.

I am not going to this march to hear this bitch and will boo her if she has the gall to speak at the Revolution March. :mad:

Awwww. C'mon. WWJD?:(