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SwordOfShannarah
06-27-2008, 11:33 AM
Hi guys, this is Trevor Lyman. I've been looking at some of the threads and I see that there are many misconceptions about me and the projects that I am a part of. In this thread I want to address the concerns raised about the 4th of July money bomb.

For those of you who missed the previous discussions you'll find one of them here.:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=144528 My thanks to stormcommander for changing his viewpoint and being at least somewhat supportive of the event.

Many of you know that I have joined forces with a great bunch of people over at http://BreakTheMatrix.com. In fact our team is now 11 members strong! This means I am now engaged in a for profit entity that aims to change America's media. It is in my strong opinion that the media is the number one reason Ron Paul did not win the 2008 nomination, and that it is also to blame for our involvement in the war, the allowance of the federal reserve, fractional reserve banking and the list goes on. Truly our nation's media MUST be changed if this country is to be great again and http://BreakTheMatrix.com is one attempt at making this change happen.

As a for profit entity we are legally required by the FEC to charge a fair rate for services for the promotion of the July 4th money bomb at FreedomSlate08.com. We simply cannot get around that fact.

Complying with the law is a great reason for us to charge for our services but it not the only great reason. Charging for a service allows us to continue the service on an ongoing basis. Website creation, promotion, contacting the candidates, conducting radio interviews, editing them into videos and so on all require time and energy. Think of the commission as the fuel that keeps us going so that we can in turn keep promoting these candidates. We intend to keep running money bombs at http://FreedomSlate08.com for many months to come. There are many State level candidates who need help and exposure and there will also be the final list of candidates who will need help again once they have won their primaries. We are here to help them win and with your help we can make that happen.

Another great reason for charging for services is to create a revenue stream for http://BreakTheMatrix.com. A revenue stream makes us attractive to investors. With investment we have a real shot at acquiring the capital that is absolutely essential to creating a self-sustaining freedom media presence to compete with the likes of Fox, CNN, and the other mainstream media outlets.

Remember that http://BreakTheMatrix.com is a team of 11 people. That means that I am not "getting all the money". Not by a long shot. Instead the money is going to fuel the media company that will make true and lasting change a reality in this country (so long as we are successful). So, rather than feeling jilted that a small percentage of the funds are not going to make it to the candidates you should feel empowered. Not only are you helping to put some great candidates into office so that they can make real change in Washington D.C., you are also creating and fueling the media company that will make lasting change throughout the nation. The fee we charge is not a detriment to the fourth of July money bomb but rather it is a wonderful bonus.

I have to tell you I am so proud of what we are doing at http://BreakTheMatrix.com and http://FreedomSlate08.com. And I am so proud of all the wonderful candidates who are standing up and fighting for the principles of this great nation. I hope you will support us all so that we can continue to work towards achieving these important goals now and in the days to come.

MRoCkEd
06-27-2008, 11:39 AM
Thanks Trevor. I took some concerns into consideration, but the responses from the candidates themselves and the legal aspect of it have eased some of my worries. Many of these candidates would be neglected if it were not for freedomslate. I'll bump my old thread about it with your post.

Tangoland
06-27-2008, 12:09 PM
Thanks to BJ Lawson and David Gay as well as the other 25 candidates on www.freedomslate08.com

Check out BJ's support of Trevor, Break the Matrix and FreedomSlate08

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=144528&page=7

Make sure you put a banner link on your site for the July 4th Money Bomb!! Available on www.freedomslate08.com

Many of these candidates are Ron Paul Endorsed!

Bryan
06-27-2008, 12:19 PM
Thanks Trevor. I do hope this thread can be useful and address any issues in a fair and respectful manner (per forum guidelines).

I've got a question- obviously with the Ron Paul campaign it was a no-brainer that he was the person we wanted to donate to, however, with many of the other liberty candidates it's not as easy to determine who is best suited, it really would take a lot of research beyond just considering who has had an official endorsement from Dr. Paul. There are still some issues with that however as my understanding is there are some limitations on that. So there certainly seems to be some value in having some kind of vetting service so our donation money can best be applied without having to do hours and hours of research. The Freedom Slate seems to be a good vehicle for this. So my question is, what is the vetting process for someone to get on the Freedom Slate? I'd guess at this early stage there isn't a crack team leaving no stone unturned but since the Freedom Slate idea can be carried into the future, is there a direction to provide improvements to the vetting? From what I see, if the vetting process is solid then that is a good service worth supporting just on its own. IIRC, Lew Rockwell was pretty critical of someone who called themselves a "Ron Paul Republican" (no one on the FS08) so it's certainly an issue we need to be mindful of.

Thanks again.

amy31416
06-27-2008, 12:42 PM
So my question is, what is the vetting process for someone to get on the Freedom Slate? I'd guess at this early stage there isn't a crack team leaving no stone unturned but since the Freedom Slate idea can be carried into the future, is there a direction to provide improvements to the vetting? From what I see, if the vetting process is solid then that is a good service worth supporting just on its own.

Bryan, your question and statements here mirror my own.

Thanks for the post Trevor, informative and goes far to dispel some of the criticisms.

Tangoland
06-27-2008, 12:44 PM
Thanks Trevor. I do hope this thread can be useful and address any issues in a fair and respectful manner (per forum guidelines).

I've got a question- obviously with the Ron Paul campaign it was a no-brainer that he was the person we wanted to donate to, however, with many of the other liberty candidates it's not as easy to determine who is best suited, it really would take a lot of research beyond just considering who has had an official endorsement from Dr. Paul. There are still some issues with that however as my understanding is there are some limitations on that. So there certainly seems to be some value in having some kind of vetting service so our donation money can best be applied without having to do hours and hours of research. The Freedom Slate seems to be a good vehicle for this. So my question is, what is the vetting process for someone to get on the Freedom Slate? I'd guess at this early stage there isn't a crack team leaving no stone unturned but since the Freedom Slate idea can be carried into the future, is there a direction to provide improvements to the vetting? From what I see, if the vetting process is solid then that is a good service worth supporting just on its own. IIRC, Lew Rockwell was pretty critical of someone who called themselves a "Ron Paul Republican" (no one on the FS08) so it's certainly an issue we need to be mindful of.

Thanks again.

Bryan,

Vetting process is an interesting and subjective thing to a degree. I am glad you brought it up as I helped with Freedom Slate 08 every step of the way.

I have some questions for you and maybe you could help folks who are trying to determine a criteria to pick 2 or 3 or all 25 candidates to support on July 4th.

Since you have been supporting so many projects on RPF, what is your vetting process for these projects? I noticed you support www.freedomslate08.com candidates on your banner links which is great, how did you determine who to support?

Maybe folks will just have to take time and research the candidates they feel is best rather than taking www.freedomslate08.com or www.ronpaulforums.com word for it.

Just my thought on this subject:

I suggest utilizing Critical Thinking with regard to all candidates on www.freedomslate08.com and pick the ones that make sense and leave the rest.

Cafeteria style if you will...

Don't just support something or someone because its on www.ronpaulforums.com's banner section or on www.freedomslate08.com's candidate list.

Think for yourself folks and trust your heart! Then get behind the projects and candidates YOU feel good about.

Kurt Wallace
Wake Up America Show
mon-fri 9am-11am EST
www.breakthematrix.com
www.freedomslate08.com

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
06-27-2008, 12:57 PM
My issue with the project isn't profiteering, but what seems like deceptive marketing and taking advantage of prior trust with fine print at the bottom of the page. All other money bombs were done pro-bono, why would we think otherwise now?

If you said all this upfront, no one would care.

But you tried to hide it, or at least weren't upfront about it, and now have to deal with the consequences.

mport1
06-27-2008, 01:09 PM
All of this sounds fine to me. Thanks for your hard work Trevor.

UtahApocalypse
06-27-2008, 01:22 PM
Trevor, I applaud your efforts. I also do not have a problem with people making money. I do however think it should be very transparent. I also think since much of the work is done pro-bono by grassroots efforts that more thanks and appreciation needs to be put out to the community. Its one thing to take pay, for having the site up and doing the top end orginaization. It however is inappropriate to take all of the credit.

amy31416
06-27-2008, 01:23 PM
Vetting process is an interesting and subjective thing to a degree. I am glad you brought it up as I helped with Freedom Slate 08 every step of the way.



Kurt,

I was involved briefly with an effort to "vet" potential candidates, and yes, you are correct that critical thinking is important to such an effort. However, to be most efficient, it's important to have a team of people with various talents who are not partial to any one person or agenda.

Part of what I came up with as criteria for vetting a candidate is:

1. Political views: how closely do they know and follow the Constitution?

2. Prior political record, if applicable: has the candidate voted Constitutionally? If not, have they changed their views and why?

3. Prior record: Is their background reasonably clean? Do they have skeletons in the closet that could ruin their credibility?

4. District: Is it a pipe dream that a Republican could get elected in their district? What generalizations can you make about their district? Does the candidate have a message that will resonate with those generalizations? (For instance, if it's a very religious area, Chuck Baldwin would be great! Theodore Terbolizard would not.)

5. Personal characteristics: Is the person a good and persuasive speaker? Is his/her appearance professional? Can they write well? Are they loyal to the people, not to the party?

Much of this is subjective, but it's a process that can be formalized, analyzed and fleshed out. In my mind, it's very important to have this process be as professional as possible.

For instance, you have Peter James on the slate. While I have no personal problem with him (sorry Peter, I know you post here sometimes), he has a quote from Hitler on his website, something about eating a sausage one bite at a time. That's not professional, and it waters down your credibility.

I do not, in any way, want to hurt Freedom's Slate, as I think it can do a lot of good, but it's important for you to maintain credibility with those of us who do analyze the candidates on our own.
Amy

SwordOfShannarah
06-27-2008, 01:40 PM
My issue with the project isn't profiteering, but what seems like deceptive marketing and taking advantage of prior trust with fine print at the bottom of the page. All other money bombs were done pro-bono, why would we think otherwise now?

If you said all this upfront, no one would care.

But you tried to hide it, or at least weren't upfront about it, and now have to deal with the consequences.

Hi Paul Bearer,

I don't think we have been deceptive in our marketing. The disclosure notice at the bottom of the page is exactly where it should be and it is in normal sized print. We're not and never have been hiding anything. If we wanted to deceive we wouldn't have put up a disclosure notice at all.

The consequences should (and I think will) be that people get behind these candidates and join us at http://FreedomSlate08.com.

JKap
06-27-2008, 01:45 PM
Hey Trevor, check out this thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=144276

It's a discussion about a Ron Paul Campaign for Liberty Bomb (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=144276) for this November 5th. We want to use your November 5th domain.

SwordOfShannarah
06-27-2008, 01:54 PM
Thanks Trevor. I do hope this thread can be useful and address any issues in a fair and respectful manner (per forum guidelines).

I've got a question- obviously with the Ron Paul campaign it was a no-brainer that he was the person we wanted to donate to, however, with many of the other liberty candidates it's not as easy to determine who is best suited, it really would take a lot of research beyond just considering who has had an official endorsement from Dr. Paul. There are still some issues with that however as my understanding is there are some limitations on that. So there certainly seems to be some value in having some kind of vetting service so our donation money can best be applied without having to do hours and hours of research. The Freedom Slate seems to be a good vehicle for this. So my question is, what is the vetting process for someone to get on the Freedom Slate? I'd guess at this early stage there isn't a crack team leaving no stone unturned but since the Freedom Slate idea can be carried into the future, is there a direction to provide improvements to the vetting? From what I see, if the vetting process is solid then that is a good service worth supporting just on its own. IIRC, Lew Rockwell was pretty critical of someone who called themselves a "Ron Paul Republican" (no one on the FS08) so it's certainly an issue we need to be mindful of.

Thanks again.

Hi Bryan,

This is a great question. Kurt has pretty much covered our stance but I will chime in a bit as well. We chose candidates who fell in line with the four major positions we believe Ron Paul stands for (and that we at BreakTheMatrix.com stand for). They are:

(1) End the overseas empire; and bring the troops home;
(2) End the Federal Reserve; break the debt money culture and the stranglehold of our bankers;
(3) Limit our federal government to its proper Constitutional framework; end the income tax (and so much more;
(4) Dismantle the police state; and free the American people.

(for more on this visit: http://www.breakthematrix.com/Business/What-Is-BreakTheMatrix ).

After determining a candidate has the correct stance on these issues we feel it is enough for them to then be listed so that we as potential donors can look into the candidates and make come to our own conclusions. In effect, the candidates at FreedomSlate08.com are not endorsed by us (we don't feel we are in the position to give endorsements) rather the candidates listed are a collection of qualified leads brought together for purposes of information and for everyone's convenience.

MRoCkEd
06-27-2008, 01:55 PM
Hey Trevor, check out this thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=144276

It's a discussion about a Ron Paul Campaign for Liberty Bomb (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=144276) for this November 5th. We want to use your November 5th domain.
yes trevor
could you please comment on this?

David A. Gay, Sr.
06-27-2008, 02:10 PM
Quite a few of us also have Dr. Paul's official endorsement... So that helps you all know where we stand.

I know that on that list, myself, b.j., and Steven Vasquez are all endorsed. I've hear Delia Lopez has also, in effect, been promised a forthcoming endorsement.

Our races all have different dynamics, but we're all standing up for peace abroad and expanded freedom at home.

My suggestion is for everyone to make donations to as many candidates as possible from the freedomslate list. This way we all have an equal chance to fund our campaigns and continue this revolution.

Thanks Everyone!

-David Gay

www.davidgay2008.com

Bryan
06-27-2008, 02:23 PM
Bryan,

Vetting process is an interesting and subjective thing to a degree. I am glad you brought it up as I helped with Freedom Slate 08 every step of the way.

I have some questions for you and maybe you could help folks who are trying to determine a criteria to pick 2 or 3 or all 25 candidates to support on July 4th.

Since you have been supporting so many projects on RPF, what is your vetting process for these projects? I noticed you support www.freedomslate08.com candidates on your banner links which is great, how did you determine who to support?

Maybe folks will just have to take time and research the candidates they feel is best rather than taking www.freedomslate08.com or www.ronpaulforums.com word for it.

Just my thought on this subject:

I suggest utilizing Critical Thinking with regard to all candidates on www.freedomslate08.com and pick the ones that make sense and leave the rest.

Cafeteria style if you will...

Don't just support something or someone because its on www.ronpaulforums.com's banner section or on www.freedomslate08.com's candidate list.

Think for yourself folks and trust your heart! Then get behind the projects and candidates YOU feel good about.

Kurt Wallace
Wake Up America Show
mon-fri 9am-11am EST
www.breakthematrix.com
www.freedomslate08.com

Thanks for the post Kurt, you're absolutely correct about people needing to do their own critical thinking-- placing too much trust in another source is part of what got us into the mess we are in.



Since you have been supporting so many projects on RPF, what is your vetting process for these projects?
From a high level view, there are three things:
- I have the resources to contribute.
- I have some context of a relevant and appropriate sized track record of who needs to be trusted. For example, if I have seen someone put in 300 thankless hours towards some good endeavor and I was asked by them to put in 3, it would be considered. Conversely, if someone had put in 3 hours and asked me to put in 300, that's a different story. In a real situation, if Larry Lepard ask me to do a favor I would- and I have and will continue to do so.
- I foresee the project as being cost effective with a good "return on investment" (with the return being winning hearts and minds).



I noticed you support www.freedomslate08.com candidates on your banner links which is great, how did you determine who to support?
Josh would have to provide a complete answer, but for what I personally put up there it was dependent upon both objective and subjective elements. The main objective criteria was an endorsement from Dr. Paul-- which of course isn't infallible. Subjectively it is dependent upon the pulse of the overall established and credible grassroots on the forum that have built up a good deal of capital by doing great things for the movement.

Amy does a pretty good job of explaining it here (but pay no attention to DrYongrel :)):
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=135694


I've given some good thought to the overall vetting process for candidates- I think a great service would collect and summarize objective information and then provide some subjective ratings on various key points that can also be summarized. For example, an important aspect of a candidate to me is their past grassroots activism (as it's an indicators to their commitment to the issues)- that could be objectively listed (and somewhat verified with the verification included in the evaluation) and then also subjectively graded. Any subjective formula however shouldn't be public to prevent gaming of the system. Granted, it does cut both ways since, some sort of corrupt vetting service could do damage, so it would be important to have a vetting service with more credibility then what they could afford to lose. One thing that could help too is to have the subjective ratings done in a blind manner in that the grader(s) don't know who the candidate is when possible- they only get generic data.

In the end is it a balance of risk (of doing the wrong thing), spending time making sure you do the right thing vs. the problems of doing nothing (bad idea). So this is why I see it useful to leverage trusted work from others.

Please let me know if this doesn't answer all of your questions.

Bryan
06-27-2008, 02:26 PM
Hi Bryan,

This is a great question. Kurt has pretty much covered our stance but I will chime in a bit as well. We chose candidates who fell in line with the four major positions we believe Ron Paul stands for (and that we at BreakTheMatrix.com stand for). They are:

(1) End the overseas empire; and bring the troops home;
(2) End the Federal Reserve; break the debt money culture and the stranglehold of our bankers;
(3) Limit our federal government to its proper Constitutional framework; end the income tax (and so much more;
(4) Dismantle the police state; and free the American people.

(for more on this visit: http://www.breakthematrix.com/Business/What-Is-BreakTheMatrix ).

After determining a candidate has the correct stance on these issues we feel it is enough for them to then be listed so that we as potential donors can look into the candidates and make come to our own conclusions. In effect, the candidates at FreedomSlate08.com are not endorsed by us (we don't feel we are in the position to give endorsements) rather the candidates listed are a collection of qualified leads brought together for purposes of information and for everyone's convenience.
Thanks Trevor- this makes sense. I guess I didn't understand the entire mechanics of how the Freedom Slate process works-- this thread has helped.

LibertyEagle
06-27-2008, 03:36 PM
Thanks for coming over here and clearing up some things, Trevor. :)

Jamsie 567
06-27-2008, 04:21 PM
Hey Trevor, I am hoping you consider using the www.ThisNovember5th.com site for the anniversary of the November 5th Mass Donation for the CFL. I think this could be a great way to start getting new support from people that are discovering Dr. Paul. This will also help the other grassroots projects in the aspect it could potentially inspire more people to join our movement as the first donation did.

Please take this into consideration. I got a video that is almost finished it could go viral.

Kind Regards,

James

No1ButPaul08
06-27-2008, 04:33 PM
My biggest problem with freedom slate is that out of the 23 candidates on the slate, maybe 2 or 3 or them can win. Take Peter James for instance, he's on the slate, yet he got drilled in the special election a week ago (the winner got 81%). I like Peter, but why give money him when he has no chance. We should consolidate our money into 1 or 2 candidates that have the best shot, not 23, whom most of have very little or no shot of winning the seat.

SwordOfShannarah
06-27-2008, 04:38 PM
Hey Trevor, check out this thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=144276

It's a discussion about a Ron Paul Campaign for Liberty Bomb (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=144276) for this November 5th. We want to use your November 5th domain.

I think it's a great idea and have had the thought that something should be done on November 5th for some time now (as I see many also have :) ). I held off from an immediate yes to Brandon because we were already in talks about a CFL money bomb. We may want to do a smaller one before this date if they have strong need for it. I guess we'll see how that develops.

I also think we should expand the event. I've been in talks with Linda (Granny Warrior) about holding another rally in DC on the 5th. I don't know- I'm sure we can come up with a lot of ideas. If not a rally maybe we throw a liberty trade show/convention with lots of vendors, or a huge concert, etc. Who knows.. I'll join in on the thread over there and lets come up with some great ideas and make it happen!

SwordOfShannarah
06-27-2008, 04:39 PM
Thanks for coming over here and clearing up some things, Trevor. :)

Thanks for having me! :D

mport1
06-27-2008, 05:03 PM
My biggest problem with freedom slate is that out of the 23 candidates on the slate, maybe 2 or 3 or them can win. Take Peter James for instance, he's on the slate, yet he got drilled in the special election a week ago (the winner got 81%). I like Peter, but why give money him when he has no chance. We should consolidate our money into 1 or 2 candidates that have the best shot, not 23, whom most of have very little or no shot of winning the seat.

Agreed.

SwordOfShannarah
06-27-2008, 05:08 PM
Hey Trevor, I am hoping you consider using the www.ThisNovember5th.com site for the anniversary of the November 5th Mass Donation for the CFL. I think this could be a great way to start getting new support from people that are discovering Dr. Paul. This will also help the other grassroots projects in the aspect it could potentially inspire more people to join our movement as the first donation did.

Please take this into consideration. I got a video that is almost finished it could go viral.

Kind Regards,

James


Hmmmm... another video?? We all know what happened the last time you decided to make a cool video. Uh oh.. the neo-cons are in trouble!! ;)

David A. Gay, Sr.
06-27-2008, 05:35 PM
Agreed.

David Gay here.

Ron Paul Endorsed.

Republican

Running for an OPEN SEAT in a Republican district.

Registered Republicans in N.Y. 25 and registered Democrats are 1-1

GOP challenger just lost a primary last year and people around here don't like him.

Dem challenger works for Dan Maffei...

This race is in the bag... All it's going to take is some fundraising!

Please be sure to donate!

http://www.davidgay2008.com
http://www.freedomslate08.com

SwordOfShannarah
06-27-2008, 06:06 PM
My biggest problem with freedom slate is that out of the 23 candidates on the slate, maybe 2 or 3 or them can win. Take Peter James for instance, he's on the slate, yet he got drilled in the special election a week ago (the winner got 81%). I like Peter, but why give money him when he has no chance. We should consolidate our money into 1 or 2 candidates that have the best shot, not 23, whom most of have very little or no shot of winning the seat.

You make a great point but to be fair choosing based on who we think will or won't win is a very difficult and most likely unfair decision for us to make. We all remember the George Stephanopoulos indecent. Ultimately I think the onus is on the voter to do the research and on the candidate to make their case about their prospects to win.

In line with your statement we plan to keep FreedomSlate08.com as a standing money bomb website. We'd like to keep helping the candidates raise money until November. With FreedomSlate08 we can simply change the date to have a new money bomb fund raising event. As we move further along candidates who don't win their primaries will fall off the list on their own. When we get closer to the elections the final money bomb will be for a list of candidates who are fully "in the race". So, the final event will naturally be the kind of money bomb you're talking about.

No1ButPaul08
06-27-2008, 07:07 PM
You make a great point but to be fair choosing based on who we think will or won't win is a very difficult and most likely unfair decision for us to make. We all remember the George Stephanopoulos indecent. Ultimately I think the onus is on the voter to do the research and on the candidate to make their case about their prospects to win.

In line with your statement we plan to keep FreedomSlate08.com as a standing money bomb website. We'd like to keep helping the candidates raise money until November. With FreedomSlate08 we can simply change the date to have a new money bomb fund raising event. As we move further along candidates who don't win their primaries will fall off the list on their own. When we get closer to the elections the final money bomb will be for a list of candidates who are fully "in the race". So, the final event will naturally be the kind of money bomb you're talking about.

Fair enough.

I will point for those looking to do their own research that Open Secrets (http://www.opensecrets.org/races/index.php) is a good place to start. This allows you to see the fundraising totals (through March 30) for the Ron Paul candidate and his/her opponents. Another good thing to look up is the past elections for the district, this should give the researcher a good idea of the district landscape, and whether they think it can be won.

Congressional Quarterly rates races on how competitive they think it will be and what way they believe the race is leaning. This can be found here (http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=ratings-house)

The Cook Political Report provides the same service (http://www.cookpolitical.com/charts/house/competitive_2008-06-19_14-54-12.php)

David A. Gay, Sr.
06-27-2008, 08:33 PM
To be fair, open secrets reports from fec quarterly data. Many of us began our campaigns on April 1st and are listed on the fec website at $0 in spite of having already begun raising funds.

-David Gay

http://www.davidgay2008.com

No1ButPaul08
06-27-2008, 08:41 PM
To be fair, open secrets reports from fec quarterly data. Many of us began our campaigns on April 1st and are listed on the fec website at $0 in spite of having already begun raising funds.

-David Gay

http://www.davidgay2008.com

This is correct and I edited my post to say through Mar. 30

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2
06-27-2008, 08:46 PM
We all remember the George Stephanopoulos indecent.

That clown's almost always indecent. :D

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
06-27-2008, 09:29 PM
Hi Paul Bearer,

I don't think we have been deceptive in our marketing. The disclosure notice at the bottom of the page is exactly where it should be and it is in normal sized print. We're not and never have been hiding anything. If we wanted to deceive we wouldn't have put up a disclosure notice at all.

The consequences should (and I think will) be that people get behind these candidates and join us at http://FreedomSlate08.com.

Nice PR spin... don't try and turn it around on me like I'm not being supportive of the candidates; all of the Paul endorsed candidates have received hundos from me.

Also, I believe the disclosure notice is for liability/fraud purposes, not a gift from your heart... so stop the B.S.

Anyway, I have nothing against BTM or what you're doing, just how you are doing it.
If you are going to run your business placing disclosures "where they should be," like every other business, well... I would hope you're better than that.

If you didn't have anything to hide you'd have put in the statement how much of a cut you're getting and let us decide if it's fair or not.

schooldayze
06-27-2008, 09:40 PM
Hi Paul Bearer,

I don't think we have been deceptive in our marketing. The disclosure notice at the bottom of the page is exactly where it should be and it is in normal sized print. We're not and never have been hiding anything. If we wanted to deceive we wouldn't have put up a disclosure notice at all.

The consequences should (and I think will) be that people get behind these candidates and join us at http://FreedomSlate08.com.

Actually, if you do not put up disclosure you would be violating the law. FEC tends to throw people in jail for that :-) Just a point of clarification.

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
06-27-2008, 09:48 PM
David Gay here.

Ron Paul Endorsed.

Republican

Running for an OPEN SEAT in a Republican district.

Registered Republicans in N.Y. 25 and registered Democrats are 1-1

GOP challenger just lost a primary last year and people around here don't like him.

Dem challenger works for Dan Maffei...


Is this Louise Slaughter's district? I grew up in the area.
I have a lot of friends in Wayne County.. I get 50 votes for ya! :-)

SwordOfShannarah
06-27-2008, 09:50 PM
Nice PR spin... don't try and turn it around on me like I'm not being supportive of the candidates; all of the Paul endorsed candidates have received hundos from me.

I never said you aren't supportive of the candidates and I wasn't trying to turn anything around on you. That's awesome that you gave money to them.


Also, I believe the disclosure notice is for liability/fraud purposes, not a gift from your heart... so stop the B.S.

I never said it was a gift from the heart or tried to B.S. you. Sorry you feel that way.


Anyway, I have nothing against BTM or what you're doing, just how you are doing it.

You're welcome to your opinion about how we do things. My opinion is that we're doing things very well.


If you are going to run your business placing disclosures "where they should be," like every other business, well... I would hope you're better than that.

This movement supports the free market as a solution to our problems. Being a business is a great thing. To act as if business is bad or wrong is miss the point of what this movement is all about.


If you didn't have anything to hide you'd have put in the statement how much of a cut you're getting and let us decide if it's fair or not.

We're not hiding anything, but as a business it is not our place to disclose what we charge our clients. If the customer wants to tell you they can (and they have), but it's not our place to do it.

SwordOfShannarah
06-27-2008, 09:51 PM
Actually, if you do not put up disclosure you would be violating the law. FEC tends to throw people in jail for that :-) Just a point of clarification.

Exactly right and as I stated in the initial post we're paying attention to what the law requires... we have to!

schooldayze
06-27-2008, 09:58 PM
Ok Trevor, since you are clearing things up. I want to "pull a major thorn from my paw" when it comes to the greater movement we are involved in... and for that matter the Ron Paul movement which continues even after he has "ended his campaign."

Let me say for the record. I want to believe your intentions are good. I want to believe that you're only interested in enough to pay the bills so you don't have to work for the man, and spend 100% of your time working for freedom for myself, my children and for the rest of the people in this country. Unfortunately we need money to be able to eat... and if we don't make a profit somewhere then in my case I'm out swinging a hammer, and not working for the freedom movement.

That being said... let's hash it out.

I took serious issue to the fact that you only asked for $10 each on the MLK day bomb and then shortly after Rick Williams pronounced the Ron Paul campaign dead. (This was back in February). A major coincidence or were you already planning something? Asking for $10 when you could have asked for $100 just seemed like you were more interested in email addresses than bringing money into the Ron Paul campaign. If you can convince me sir I guarantee you I am one of your biggest critics... however I am here with an open mind prepared to hear you out if you choose to be heard on the matter.

Ball is in your court.

LittleFrog
06-27-2008, 10:04 PM
PB of inJustice, I'm trying not to be offended that you think we common folk lack the wherewithal to scroll through a fairly simple one page site and comprehend all of the information presented throughout... including the ALL CAPS disclosure notice at the bottom.

If it's posted right there on the front page, they obviously aren't trying to hide anything. If they were trying to hide it, I hope they'd be clever enough to come up with something trickier than posting it right there in plain sight, in big white capital letters on a black background. LOL.

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
06-27-2008, 10:07 PM
This movement supports the free market as a solution to our problems. Being a business is a great thing. To act as if business is bad or wrong is miss the point of what this movement is all about.



Behind all the buzzwords this movement is about integrity and responsibility, without which there are no truly free markets, just deception and a greater fools game.
If a business is deception based, it IS bad and good luck spinning it under the "free market" umbrella.

I would like to see this movement become a multi-billion dollar bulwark business network with tremendous influence. Even if I'm wrong about you, I felt compelled to speak my peace. And now I'm done.:D

ronpaulhawaii
06-27-2008, 10:10 PM
Aloha Trevor,

I'm stoked to see you here with this thread

Thanks.

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
06-27-2008, 10:15 PM
PB of inJustice, I'm trying not to be offended that you think we common folk lack the wherewithal to scroll through a fairly simple one page site and comprehend all of the information presented throughout... including the ALL CAPS disclosure notice at the bottom.

If it's posted right there on the front page, they obviously aren't trying to hide anything. If they were trying to hide it, I hope they'd be clever enough to come up with something trickier than posting it right there in plain sight, in big white capital letters on a black background. LOL.

The trick to being a skillful deceiver is to not blatantly hide things while feigning openness. After all, to deceive there first needs to be trust.
I doubt anyone reads 100 page terms and condition agreements, or 1000 page Patriot Acts because of a certain level of trust. And while not illegal or necessarily immoral, I just hoped this community wouldn't run businesses like everyone else.
Aren't we supposed to change things, not just politically but socially as well?
What are we accomplishing when we chest-thump platitudes then run another shady business like everyone else?

LittleFrog
06-27-2008, 11:17 PM
Exactly - we ARE supposed to change things... like Congress... lol

Anyway, hopefully most of us can agree on the big picture here:

-- Ron Paul needs support in Congress

-- FreedomSlate08 has taken the initiative to identify and organize 25+ freedom candidates that will give him that support

-- We have the power to give these candidates a real shot at getting elected

I can't take another term of politics-as-usual, so I'm going to donate my butt off on the 4th :)

SwordOfShannarah
06-27-2008, 11:18 PM
I took serious issue to the fact that you only asked for $10 each on the MLK day bomb and then shortly after Rick Williams pronounced the Ron Paul campaign dead. (This was back in February). A major coincidence or were you already planning something? Asking for $10 when you could have asked for $100 just seemed like you were more interested in email addresses than bringing money into the Ron Paul campaign. If you can convince me sir I guarantee you I am one of your biggest critics... however I am here with an open mind prepared to hear you out if you choose to be heard on the matter.

Ball is in your court.

In my eyes the greatest value we received for raising $4.3 million dollars for Ron Paul was in the publicity we received, not the fact that the campaign had the money. I think most would agree with me and this is due to the fact that we received what I would estimate to be well over $10 million in publicity for the event.

On November 5th we had about 36,000 donors pull together to raise $4.3 million dollars. Then on December 16th we beat our record by bringing about 67,000 donors together to raise over $6 million dollars. But, to our dismay we barely got any publicity for the second money bomb event. At that point I thought it would be good strategy to try to show our numbers. If you'll remember we were fighting the "he can't win syndrome" that was raining down in full force on our efforts. Raising a large amount of money was great, but it hadn't been enough to convince a person on the street that we had large numbers and the he COULD win. The only thing that we could do that was different, that stood a chance of gaining massive publicity, and would help us convince those who liked Ron Paul but thought he was a wasted vote, would be to have over 100,000 people donate on the same day. Even that wasn't going to be a cure all but in my mind it was a move in the right direction. It would be a huge morale booster and would give fresh ammo to our argument and cause.

There were other factors as well. 1.) We had just underperformed in the NH primary which hurt morale. 2.) a lot of people were writing me telling me they were very upset there was no recount and that they wouldn't donate again. 3.) Many supporters had depleted their funds with two huge money bombs 4.) no publicity from December 16th meaning less motivation going forward.. and so on. So, I thought it would much easier for us to go with a lower minimum number so that everyone could participate. The pledge was for $10 or more so I thought we could certainly raise millions of dollars as well.

SwordOfShannarah
06-27-2008, 11:23 PM
Behind all the buzzwords this movement is about integrity and responsibility, without which there are no truly free markets, just deception and a greater fools game.
If a business is deception based, it IS bad and good luck spinning it under the "free market" umbrella.

I would like to see this movement become a multi-billion dollar bulwark business network with tremendous influence. Even if I'm wrong about you, I felt compelled to speak my peace. And now I'm done.:D

By all means you are allowed your opinion. For my part I don't see "free market" as a buzz word. I know there was no intent to deceive on our part and I know that we aren't trying to spin anything.

ronpaulhawaii
06-27-2008, 11:24 PM
I thought the small donation bomb had more to do with beating Obamas "most donaters" record and thought that was talked about in NH?

SwordOfShannarah
06-27-2008, 11:31 PM
The trick to being a skillful deceiver is to not blatantly hide things while feigning openness. After all, to deceive there first needs to be trust.
I doubt anyone reads 100 page terms and condition agreements, or 1000 page Patriot Acts because of a certain level of trust. And while not illegal or necessarily immoral, I just hoped this community wouldn't run businesses like everyone else.
Aren't we supposed to change things, not just politically but socially as well?
What are we accomplishing when we chest-thump platitudes then run another shady business like everyone else?

The trick to being a skillful deceiver is to make assumptions in your statements that state certain elements as fact when they are not in fact facts. I don't think you are doing it on purpose, but if you read your statements you will see that you have already convicted FreedomSlate08 of being shady or acting shady, but in fact we have done nothing shady at all. We are operating as a very moral and upright business. Furthermore please remember that all of the candidates have joined our effort and are very excited to be a part of it. That should help you to see that we are operating in a very legitimate way because we have the support of some very upright and legitimate candidates for office.. the best of the best in fact! :)

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
06-28-2008, 12:17 AM
The trick to being a skillful deceiver is to make assumptions in your statements that state certain elements as fact when they are not in fact facts. I don't think you are doing it on purpose, but if you read your statements you will see that you have already convicted FreedomSlate08 of being shady or acting shady, but in fact we have done nothing shady at all. We are operating as a very moral and upright business. Furthermore please remember that all of the candidates have joined our effort and are very excited to be a part of it. That should help you to see that we are operating in a very legitimate way because we have the support of some very upright and legitimate candidates for office.. the best of the best in fact! :)

Of course both parties are pleased in agreeing to how to distribute other people's money.
What you are doing is not legitimate.
I think of it like all the donations give us shares in a liberty fund. You just can't divvy up OUR money however you please and write it off to 'that's business'.
As shareholders, we control the capital flow and are entitled to know what it's paying for.
My contention is that we are entitled to know how the money is spent.
You may not agree, but that's where we ethically differ.

Perhaps my idealistic standards are too high, but I'm disappointed nonetheless.
Better this all came out now than on July 5th, that's for sure.

David A. Gay, Sr.
06-28-2008, 12:18 AM
That last paragraph from Trevor should have ended the argument.

Thanks for the compliment too!

-David Gay
http://www.davidgay2008.com

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
06-28-2008, 12:43 AM
Exactly - we ARE supposed to change things... like Congress... lol

Anyway, hopefully most of us can agree on the big picture here:

-- Ron Paul needs support in Congress

-- FreedomSlate08 has taken the initiative to identify and organize 25+ freedom candidates that will give him that support

-- We have the power to give these candidates a real shot at getting elected

I can't take another term of politics-as-usual, so I'm going to donate my butt off on the 4th :)

Astroturfing for BTM?:rolleyes:

SwordOfShannarah
06-28-2008, 02:10 PM
Aloha Trevor,

I'm stoked to see you here with this thread

Thanks.

Good to see you as well!

SwordOfShannarah
06-28-2008, 02:11 PM
Exactly - we ARE supposed to change things... like Congress... lol

Anyway, hopefully most of us can agree on the big picture here:

-- Ron Paul needs support in Congress

-- FreedomSlate08 has taken the initiative to identify and organize 25+ freedom candidates that will give him that support

-- We have the power to give these candidates a real shot at getting elected

I can't take another term of politics-as-usual, so I'm going to donate my butt off on the 4th :)


Thanks little frog- like I said the fee is a great thing for the community and the big picture here is that we need to get these candidates in office!!

Bryan
06-28-2008, 02:56 PM
What you are doing is not legitimate.
I've been trying to read this thread carefully, but I haven't see how this point has been established. Can you support this in detail please.

Thanks.

Tangoland
06-28-2008, 04:28 PM
Thanks for the post Kurt, you're absolutely correct about people needing to do their own critical thinking-- placing too much trust in another source is part of what got us into the mess we are in.



From a high level view, there are three things:
- I have the resources to contribute.
- I have some context of a relevant and appropriate sized track record of who needs to be trusted. For example, if I have seen someone put in 300 thankless hours towards some good endeavor and I was asked by them to put in 3, it would be considered. Conversely, if someone had put in 3 hours and asked me to put in 300, that's a different story. In a real situation, if Larry Lepard ask me to do a favor I would- and I have and will continue to do so.
- I foresee the project as being cost effective with a good "return on investment" (with the return being winning hearts and minds).



Josh would have to provide a complete answer, but for what I personally put up there it was dependent upon both objective and subjective elements. The main objective criteria was an endorsement from Dr. Paul-- which of course isn't infallible. Subjectively it is dependent upon the pulse of the overall established and credible grassroots on the forum that have built up a good deal of capital by doing great things for the movement.

Amy does a pretty good job of explaining it here (but pay no attention to DrYongrel :)):
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=135694


I've given some good thought to the overall vetting process for candidates- I think a great service would collect and summarize objective information and then provide some subjective ratings on various key points that can also be summarized. For example, an important aspect of a candidate to me is their past grassroots activism (as it's an indicators to their commitment to the issues)- that could be objectively listed (and somewhat verified with the verification included in the evaluation) and then also subjectively graded. Any subjective formula however shouldn't be public to prevent gaming of the system. Granted, it does cut both ways since, some sort of corrupt vetting service could do damage, so it would be important to have a vetting service with more credibility then what they could afford to lose. One thing that could help too is to have the subjective ratings done in a blind manner in that the grader(s) don't know who the candidate is when possible- they only get generic data.

In the end is it a balance of risk (of doing the wrong thing), spending time making sure you do the right thing vs. the problems of doing nothing (bad idea). So this is why I see it useful to leverage trusted work from others.

Please let me know if this doesn't answer all of your questions.

Great post!! Thanks for taking the time to write about it. I think we covered alot on this and its good food for thought.

I like the blind grader concept, very interesting idea.

I would like to have you on as a guest on Wake Up America sometime to share your story about Ron Paul Forums and talk about anything freedom and liberty. Open invitation :)

Best,
Kurt Wallace
Wake Up America Show
mon-fri 9am-11am EST
www.breakthematrix.com
www.freedomslate08.com

David A. Gay, Sr.
06-29-2008, 08:17 PM
SIGN UP TO DONATE!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!! (http://www.freedomslate08.com) http://www.freedomslate08.com

-David Gay
http://www.davidgay2008.com

angelatc
06-29-2008, 11:18 PM
SIGN UP TO DONATE!! WE NEED YOUR HELP!! (http://www.freedomslate08.com) http://www.freedomslate08.com

-David Gay
http://www.davidgay2008.com

Hi Trevor,


What he said! Campaigning takes an amazing amount of time. In Illinois, almost all the effort so far has been to gather the signatures we need. The Ron Paul supporters didn't line up in droves to help a lesser candidate, and even if they had, they couldn't circulate petitions for Allan Stevo if they had circulated for Ron Paul per state law.

Getting invited to participate in a major fundraiser that somebody else is organizing is a gift to us.

libertyguy47
07-03-2008, 09:29 PM
It's ridiculous to use the same "he can't win" mentality against these 25 candidates, that have been vetted and are dedicated to the cause, as was used and so hated by us when applied to Ron. Our unending support to the cause means we'll win in the end, and every dollar helps these candidates get out there and spread the message.

Show your support tomorrow, and ensure a victory for all of us in November.

Roxi
07-03-2008, 11:58 PM
That clown's almost always indecent. :D



yes thats why i got back at him this way:

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/5192/roxingeorgemotivatern8.jpg

David A. Gay, Sr.
07-04-2008, 07:53 AM
It's ridiculous to use the same "he can't win" mentality against these 25 candidates, that have been vetted and are dedicated to the cause, as was used and so hated by us when applied to Ron. Our unending support to the cause means we'll win in the end, and every dollar helps these candidates get out there and spread the message.

Show your support tomorrow, and ensure a victory for all of us in November.

PERFECT POST!

please donate today!
http://www.freedomslate08.com

So far my campaign has only $275 from today's efforts! Please help out!

http://www.davidgay2008.com/moneybomb

SaratogaForRonPaul
07-04-2008, 08:50 AM
The fight for freedom does not end when its no longer convenient. It means fighting on, under all circumstances, when its hard and we are scarred from the the road behind us. We have had many victories in the R3VOLution, but we have not gotten to our goals of bringing accountability and responsibility to the government. We have not yet brought new representation into the government that believes the way our fore fathers have and follows the law of the land, our Constitution.

We can now. We have over 20 candidates running for Congress that can make a difference. We can back up Ron Paul in Congress and vote to reduce government size, influence, and costs to avert economic crisis. We can bring our troops home from overseas and restore our liberties. But we need you to not give up hope. We need you to stand strong, and continue the sacrifice.

We need you to support and help these candidates. Please go to http://www.FreedomSlate08.com and donate today.

ItsTime
07-04-2008, 09:21 AM
wow 2,300 in donations at 1130am est rocking it out! :rolleyes:

BuckOFive
07-04-2008, 10:03 AM
bump for freedom!

princessredtights
07-04-2008, 10:11 AM
yes thats why i got back at him this way:

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/5192/roxingeorgemotivatern8.jpg



ha!

I love it!

ItsTime
07-04-2008, 04:10 PM
how much is BTM making off the donations?

angelatc
07-04-2008, 06:04 PM
how much is BTM making off the donations?

Why do you care? Do you think that the candidates are all too stupid to cut a fair deal, that Trevor is actually Svengali ?

The money doesn't go through BTM. The individual campaigns are responsible for paying him at the end of it all. They stand to get ripped off, not us.

ItsTime
07-04-2008, 06:07 PM
Why do you care? Do you think that the candidates are all too stupid to cut a fair deal, that Trevor is actually Svengali ?

The money doesn't go through BTM. The individual campaigns are responsible for paying him at the end of it all. They stand to get ripped off, not us.

why do I care where how my donation is being spent is what you are asking? :confused:

BuckOFive
07-04-2008, 06:11 PM
why do I care where how my donation is being spent is what you are asking? :confused:

Did someone in your family mentally abuse you? Did you have parents that yelled at you a lot or hit you? Do they still?

I'm actually being very serious.

angelatc
07-04-2008, 06:11 PM
why do I care where how my donation is being spent is what you are asking? :confused:

What donation would that be?

If you don't trust your candidate to invest your money properly, then perhaps you should find a better candidate.

ItsTime
07-04-2008, 06:14 PM
Did someone in your family mentally abuse you? Did you have parents that yelled at you a lot or hit you? Do they still?

I'm actually being very serious.

Are you a paid spammer from BTM?



What donation would that be?

If you don't trust your candidate to invest your money properly, then perhaps you should find a better candidate.

so that this is the type of transparency BTM and these "freedom candidates" support? Ask a very simple, easy to answer question, so I can make a well informed donation, and this is what you get. And you all are wondering why this money bomb is a huge failure.

angelatc
07-04-2008, 06:44 PM
Are you a paid spammer from BTM?

so that this is the type of transparency BTM and these "freedom candidates" support? Ask a very simple, easy to answer question, so I can make a well informed donation, and this is what you get. And you all are wondering why this money bomb is a huge failure.

Like I said, perhaps you should find a candidate that you trust. I mean, it you think Trevor is evil wait until you see your candidate having lunch with McCain, or Pelosi, knowing that it's on your dime.

Transparency worked so well with the delegate selections I can't believe you're still naive enough to believe it's a good idea to share intimate details on the internet.

It event isn't a failure as far as I am concerned, because we have more money this evening than we had this morning. No thanks to you, of course.

Do you really think that libertarian leaning candidates should never have paid staffers? Do you really think that those volunteers should never develop enough skills to earn a living out of it?

Let me assure you that I am absolutely thrilled to know that people like Trevor are willing to risk their entire lives to continue working with the Revolution.

ItsTime
07-04-2008, 06:49 PM
Transparency worked so well with the delegate selections I can't believe you're still naive enough to believe it's a good idea to share intimate details on the internet.

It event isn't a failure as far as I am concerned, because we have more money this evening than we had this morning. No thanks to you, of course.

Do you really think that libertarian leaning candidates should never have paid staffers? Do you really think that those volunteers should never develop enough skills to earn a living out of it?

Let me assure you that I am absolutely thrilled to know that people like Trevor are willing to risk their entire lives to continue working with the Revolution.

Um delegates are different. You are comparing apples and oranges. Like I said before Ill just wait for the quarter numbers to come out and look at what BTM took.

Paid staffers are fine. Im just trying to be well informed. Which when it comes to BTM a lot of people dont want people to be. Sad to see the type of "dont ask questions" mentality coming from people representing campaigns.

BuckOFive
07-04-2008, 06:49 PM
[QUOTE=ItsTime;1548471]Are you a paid spammer from BTM?

No I'm not. Now I've answered your question.. so are you a victim of abuse? I take a bit of an angry tone with you in some of my posts- because it's so easy to do with you - but I actually do think you have been abused. I think it's obvious.. and even though I think you're extremely misguided I do feel sorry for you.

ItsTime
07-04-2008, 06:55 PM
[QUOTE=ItsTime;1548471]Are you a paid spammer from BTM?

No I'm not. Now I've answered your question.. so are you a victim of abuse? I take a bit of an angry tone with you in some of my posts- because it's so easy to do with you - but I actually do think you have been abused. I think it's obvious.. and even though I think you're extremely misguided I do feel sorry for you.

never been hit, never been abused. no need to feel sorry. Im sorry if you get upset when people ask questions.

BuckOFive
07-04-2008, 06:58 PM
[QUOTE=BuckOFive;1548502]

never been hit, never been abused. no need to feel sorry. Im sorry if you get upset when people ask questions.

I don't get upset when people ask questions. No need to feel sorry for me. For the record I think you're lying. I think you an abuse victim.

ItsTime
07-04-2008, 07:02 PM
[QUOTE=ItsTime;1548508]

I don't get upset when people ask questions. No need to feel sorry for me. For the record I think you're lying. I think you an abuse victim.

lol ok. I never even got spanked as a child. I would not slander my parents any further, its against board rules.

BuckOFive
07-04-2008, 07:08 PM
[QUOTE=BuckOFive;1548512]

lol ok. I never even got spanked as a child. I would not slander my parents any further, its against board rules.

Well IF you are telling the truth.. it must be a chemical imbalance or something.

Roxi
07-04-2008, 07:09 PM
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/3033/threadsuckscg3.jpg


no offense trevor.... you didn't make it suck :D

MsDoodahs
07-04-2008, 07:35 PM
Keep it civil, please, people!

pacelli
07-04-2008, 08:09 PM
Did someone in your family mentally abuse you? Did you have parents that yelled at you a lot or hit you? Do they still?

I'm actually being very serious.

Not nice. Not nice at all.

EastWindRain
07-05-2008, 01:48 AM
So how much did the July 4th money bomb raise? $6000 bucks? Just curious. :)

rs3515
07-05-2008, 02:14 AM
I'd recommend checking out what is being done with Freeople in regards to candidate (and group) contributions. See the video here: http://www.freeople.com/blog/raise-funds-faster-with-freeople/293


Focused specifically on freedom-minded candidates and supporters.
Lowest transaction fee of any online political community.
Ability to bundle together transactions to ensure credit card companies get a smaller cut, and candidates and groups get more.
Groups can fund raise for any cause or activity.


The site has recently gone live and expecting to have many candidates joining in the coming weeks. As well, registered users can 'rate' the candidates ... Freeople is not in the business of dictating which candidates will have the most success, it's all about letting the free market decide.

constituent
07-05-2008, 04:33 PM
In my eyes the greatest value we received for raising $4.3 million dollars for Ron Paul was in the publicity we received, not the fact that the campaign had the money. I think most would agree with me and this is due to the fact that we received what I would estimate to be well over $10 million in publicity for the event.

On November 5th we had about 36,000 donors pull together to raise $4.3 million dollars. Then on December 16th we beat our record by bringing about 67,000 donors together to raise over $6 million dollars. But, to our dismay we barely got any publicity for the second money bomb event. At that point I thought it would be good strategy to try to show our numbers. If you'll remember we were fighting the "he can't win syndrome" that was raining down in full force on our efforts. Raising a large amount of money was great, but it hadn't been enough to convince a person on the street that we had large numbers and the he COULD win. The only thing that we could do that was different, that stood a chance of gaining massive publicity, and would help us convince those who liked Ron Paul but thought he was a wasted vote, would be to have over 100,000 people donate on the same day. Even that wasn't going to be a cure all but in my mind it was a move in the right direction. It would be a huge morale booster and would give fresh ammo to our argument and cause.

There were other factors as well. 1.) We had just underperformed in the NH primary which hurt morale. 2.) a lot of people were writing me telling me they were very upset there was no recount and that they wouldn't donate again. 3.) Many supporters had depleted their funds with two huge money bombs 4.) no publicity from December 16th meaning less motivation going forward.. and so on. So, I thought it would much easier for us to go with a lower minimum number so that everyone could participate. The pledge was for $10 or more so I thought we could certainly raise millions of dollars as well.


and herein lies the crux of the problem... i think the word publicity was used a minimum of ten times in the quote above.

publicity is great for self-promotion/ego-boost but does f* all for convincing people to caucus or vote for a candidate.

rather than focusing our efforts on THAT, much attention was diverted in efforts to "get publicity," and the results speak for themselves.

publicity may line pockets, but it doesn't (necessarily) get people elected.

constituent
07-05-2008, 04:35 PM
No I'm not. Now I've answered your question.. so are you a victim of abuse? I take a bit of an angry tone with you in some of my posts- because it's so easy to do with you - but I actually do think you have been abused. I think it's obvious.. and even though I think you're extremely misguided I do feel sorry for you.


i knew they'd send their lackeys (again). thanks btm, it just wasn't blimpy enough without you.

constituent
07-05-2008, 04:38 PM
http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/3033/threadsuckscg3.jpg


no offense trevor.... you didn't make it suck :D

i doubt that highly.

same m.o.

any trevor project the lackeys come out in full force... trolling non-stopped.

it's part of their innovative, revolutionary, matrix-breaking, genius marketing methods.

check the internet archives for (un)clean(ed) blimp threads