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View Full Version : Obama Destroying McCain in polls - how do we capitalize?




StilesBC
06-24-2008, 09:33 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=agCTbSDJ83rc&refer=home

This is precisely what I had envisioned would happen. How can the Revolution take advantage of this and rub it in the faces of the neocons? Will this be enough for them to say, "ok, you were right, let's make some concessions."?

Or am I simply being naiive to think they actually care? We know and they know that there is very little difference between Rupublicans and Democrats. Is a landslide victory by Obama better for the neocons than making concessions to Paul and pro liberty voters?

My gut tells me yes.

Lafayette
06-24-2008, 09:56 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=agCTbSDJ83rc&refer=home

This is precisely what I had envisioned would happen. How can the Revolution take advantage of this and rub it in the faces of the neocons? Will this be enough for them to say, "ok, you were right, let's make some concessions."?

Or am I simply being naiive to think they actually care? We know and they know that there is very little difference between Rupublicans and Democrats. Is a landslide victory by Obama better for the neocons than making concessions to Paul and pro liberty voters?

My gut tells me yes.


The GOP needs to be crushed, this may wake up a small chunk of Republicans under the Neocon spell. Much easyer IMO than waking up an Obama supporter, that "change" BS and the hate for Bush is a powerful thing.

If your asking should I or anyone else cast a vote for Obama to ensure a GOP landslide defeat?, thats somthing i just cannot do.

Ill be writing in Dr.Paul weither my vote counts or not, atleast i'll beable to sleep at night.


We can keep trying to spread the message of liberty to both sides, but i personaly believe its going to take somthing very, very, very bad to wake the majority up from their big government slumber.

I guess will see if 4 years of "Change" can't speed us to this end.

yongrel
06-24-2008, 09:57 PM
http://www.bankersball.com/images/capslock.jpg

brandon
06-24-2008, 10:00 PM
Remember, remember, the day after the election. (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=144276)

Kotin
06-24-2008, 10:01 PM
this is good for us..

TastyWheat
06-24-2008, 10:59 PM
I can see the GOP running towards another neo-con but not Ron Paul. Even 4 years of Romney would be better than McCain though.

James Madison
06-24-2008, 11:10 PM
Gotta love these idiot Obama supporters. They say they like his tax policy? Well...the MSM does play up the Bush tax cuts a lot but I don't think they'll be so happy with their candidate once they have to pay a Carbon tax AND a poverty tax.

fr33domfightr
06-24-2008, 11:41 PM
I copied some interesting quotes from the article:

"Young voters continue to be Obama's most loyal support group, while older voters are the only group where McCain is competitive."

"The poll shows McCain may have the most difficulty overcoming voters' feelings toward the Republican Party."


I think these quotes, coupled with the large volume of young voters this election cycle, is telling us something. Young voters have only known a "Republican" has been in office since they've been growing up. That means many were just 10 years old when Bush became President, and they've probably only recently started paying attention. I'm betting they, young people, are voting more for what they don't want, than anything else. Sure, Obama can speak well and inspire people. That's fine, but if you actually listen to what he says, that will steer you clear of him. Most young voters seem to be ignoring what he's actually saying, or trust that he will be better than the party in the presidency now, a Republican. They want "change," and are fooled into believing it will come from a Democrat (ie. from the left). Why would they believe this? Because they haven't studied the past Democrats in the presidency, to know how they might lead. You tell them, "don't vote for the lesser of 2 evils," and they say, "what evil, Obama inspires me, and he isn't a Republican. Republicans only want war, besides Obama is leading, right?" Young people also have a herd mentality. You swing one, you'll swing them all.

To capitalize on this, we need to get the message out to young people that there is more than a Democrat or Republican running for president. That they do have a choice in the matter, and that they should study all candidates prior to voting in November.

It's almost like you need TV spots to reach them, or advertize on Facebook or something. What about getting all the Freedom loving candidates on the stage at the Campaign For Liberty event? All third parties need much more exposure.


FF

dannno
06-24-2008, 11:52 PM
+1 Ff

AJ Antimony
06-24-2008, 11:57 PM
And just think... Obama hasn't even been attacking McCain yet and bringing up his awful past. Also, Obama hasn't even owned McCain in a debate yet.

I saw an interesting Yahoo article the other day radically speculating that McCain will drop out of the race because 1. he will get obliterated and 2. he's too old to compete with Obama

This is our only shot really to still win the Republican nomination. But in either case the RNC will be packed with neocons so they will likely nominate Romney or Huckabee over Paul.

Meh. With the shit economy coming up paying for the guns and butter of Iraq, whoever wins this election could go down in history as bad as Carter. They shouldn't, it's not necessarily their fault, but it may happen.

libertarian4321
06-25-2008, 06:03 AM
McCain is just an awful candidate- sort of like Bob Dole, but without Dole's integrity, charisma, intelligence, and (relatively) youthful vigor.

What has McWar got to run on other than "I was a POW 40 years ago"? Nothing, as far as I can tell. Though, to be fair, "I was a POW in Vietnam" has carried him this far (well, that and the heiress' money).

freedom-maniac
06-25-2008, 06:56 AM
Obama Destroying McCain in polls - how do we capitalize?

Repeat after me:

John McCain CAN'T WIN.
He's a long-shot candidate, a looney.
His political positions are too radical.
Many of his supporters are racist, and the rest are as crazy as he is.
He has no chance of winning, and the MSM should blatantly ignore him.

Truth Warrior
06-25-2008, 06:57 AM
Call options on Obama, Put options on McCain. :D

nakor667
06-25-2008, 09:03 AM
If McCain is horrifically behind (say like 20 points) by the time of the convention, will the GOP be dispirited and desperate enough to pick a new nominee? Like, say, a REAL maverick Republican with a massive internet presence to counter Obama?

HOLLYWOOD
06-25-2008, 09:16 AM
If McCain is horrifically behind (say like 20 points) by the time of the convention, will the GOP be dispirited and desperate enough to pick a new nominee? Like, say, a REAL maverick Republican with a massive internet presence to counter Obama?

The GOP all have jobs at FOX NEWS after the election.

It's all staged... for months I've been saying a OBAMA landslide in NOV.

Our Job would be to DESTROY the GOP RNC convention in Sept via the Conference For Liberty.

We should have 3-4 days, invite even the other party candidates to speak., Nader, Barr, Baldwin, Universities, Grassroots, Roving camera and interviews with ALL..

Entertainment, Celebrities, MSM, and an IMMENSE amount of EDUCATION to the people.

Work deals with C-SPAN, LINK (Democracy Now) Radio, and other independent and major media. Give them card Blache and treat them with respect and well... NOT like RP's Staff did during the past 12 months.

Make it memorable, Filmed in High Definition, High Energy, High Education, and a Finale, that blows away the DINOSAURS across town. Even fly the CFL BLIMP!

With all the coverage, produce DVD's/BlueRay package, then can be sold to help the CFL with the causes/messages in the future.

SLSteven
06-25-2008, 11:56 AM
Call options on Obama, Put options on McCain. :D

Can one do such a thing?

Truth Warrior
06-25-2008, 01:04 PM
Can one do such a thing?
It was intended as humor. My guess would be yes.

AJ Antimony
06-25-2008, 01:08 PM
The GOP all have jobs at FOX NEWS after the election.

It's all staged... for months I've been saying a OBAMA landslide in NOV.

Our Job would be to DESTROY the GOP RNC convention in Sept via the Conference For Liberty.

We should have 3-4 days, invite even the other party candidates to speak., Nader, Barr, Baldwin, Universities, Grassroots, Roving camera and interviews with ALL..

Entertainment, Celebrities, MSM, and an IMMENSE amount of EDUCATION to the people.

Work deals with C-SPAN, LINK (Democracy Now) Radio, and other independent and major media. Give them card Blache and treat them with respect and well... NOT like RP's Staff did during the past 12 months.

Make it memorable, Filmed in High Definition, High Energy, High Education, and a Finale, that blows away the DINOSAURS across town. Even fly the CFL BLIMP!

With all the coverage, produce DVD's/BlueRay package, then can be sold to help the CFL with the causes/messages in the future.

This man's gotta plan

ninepointfive
06-25-2008, 02:10 PM
excuse me if this has been said already.... But I believe the best way to take advantage of this is after the election when we can all tell the Socialist Obamaites "we told you so" :p

SLSteven
06-25-2008, 02:31 PM
excuse me if this has been said already.... But I believe the best way to take advantage of this is after the election when we can all tell the Socialist Obamaites "we told you so" :p

Then they will clamor for still more government intervention.

ItsTime
06-25-2008, 02:40 PM
we can not take advantage of this until obama comes to power and does not do anything his hardcore supporters said he would do. He is already backing down on a lot of issues. And you hear all the excuses from the die hard brainwashed obama supporters; "hes pandering". Well was obama just pandering when he said something that got you to vote for him?

fr33domfightr
06-25-2008, 02:42 PM
excuse me if this has been said already.... But I believe the best way to take advantage of this is after the election when we can all tell the Socialist Obamaites "we told you so" :p

I think it would be better to inform them BEFORE the election, and change the way they vote.


FF

spacehabitats
06-25-2008, 02:43 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=agCTbSDJ83rc&refer=home

This is precisely what I had envisioned would happen. How can the Revolution take advantage of this and rub it in the faces of the neocons? Will this be enough for them to say, "ok, you were right, let's make some concessions."?

Or am I simply being naiive to think they actually care? We know and they know that there is very little difference between Rupublicans and Democrats. Is a landslide victory by Obama better for the neocons than making concessions to Paul and pro liberty voters?

My gut tells me yes.

A McCain loss is necessary but not sufficient to push the GOP into our corner.
For this reason I question whether the global fascist Conspiracy will allow it to happen.

In any event, regardless of how disgusting and damaging an Obama administration might be, it will still allow us a window of opportunity in 2012.

ItsTime
06-25-2008, 02:58 PM
A McCain loss is necessary but not sufficient to push the GOP into our corner.
For this reason I question whether the global fascist Conspiracy will allow it to happen.

In any event, regardless of how disgusting and damaging an Obama administration might be, it will still allow us a window of opportunity in 2012.

allow what to happen? McCain lose? Because the global fascist conspiracy will speed up if Obama gets elected. Look at how fast it was going during the Clinton admin.

TruthAtLast
06-25-2008, 03:08 PM
If the GOP is crushed by 50 points it wont matter one bit. Through the years (and especially this year) I've come to the conclusion that the problem is MUCH MUCH deeper than this.

This superficial bickering between different factions within the same party is precisely the distraction they are hoping for. When I say "THEY" I mean those behind whose behind the Government. The CFR international leaders.

It is the Marxist-Leninist approach over and over again. They keep alive the myth that Americans have a choice as long as it is one of the two major parties. Every four years the "PEOPLE" flip back and forth between parties when it is virtually irrelevant because they control BOTH SIDES. They are two faces of the same coin. It doesn't matter that much to them if it lands on heads or tails.

Don't get me wrong, I'm REALLY concerned about the direction the Neo-Cons are going as they strip us of our freedom and turn our country into a Police State. But for the people who think that Obama would fix that problem, that just isn't the case. We aren't safe with either candidate. Obama supports the Patriot Act, the Homegrown Terrorist Act, Real ID, etc. He is in the pocket of the CFR just like Edwards, Thompson, Clinton, and McCain.

So we need to come to the conclusion that our REAL goal of taking down the leaders BEHIND these candidates will be a VERY LONG process. We need to be organized and chip away at it. People need to give up this delusion that the GOP will "learn their lesson" and support us or embrace our views in the future. They just don't give a shit. They don't care about us and neither do the Democrats. They will do everything they can to marginalize Freedom and personal liberty.

Long term there are three essential steps we MUST take to win.

1) We need to continue to wake people up and remove the wool over their eyes to unbrainwash them. Ron Paul has done an AMAZING job this year getting this rolling, even despite the efforts of the elite to discredit him. This process of the "awakening" is the foundation of the Movement.

2) We need to take over the power centers in this country the same way they were taken from us. This process is already starting. Look at the turnouts we've had at conventions across the country. Look at the number of freedom candidates who have run for Congress. Sure, they didn't all win but it is a learning experience. This is just the beginning and we are laying the groundwork for the future. A whole new generation of an Freedom army.

We can't be discouraged. That is EXACTLY what they hoping for. They want us to give up. They want us to think that the odds are so overwhelming that we can't possibly succeed. This is how they instill apathy and they have been pretty damn successful at it.

3) We need long term sustainable funding. We all know that money (and a lot of it) will be required to meet our goals. We need to create lasting wealth through fund raisers, endowments, and subscription funding, that can sustain the Movement beyond the pennies we raise every 4 years. $30-40 million sounds like a lot but it isn't. Ron Paul should have been able to spend that in New York and California alone. I think to make a serious impact and make the kind of quick U-turn that we need in this country, we'll need about half a billion dollars and the ability to keep generating that kind of money every four years. $300 million for a Presidential run, and another $200 million to fund Congressional liberty candidates that have been hand-selected with the credentials, experience, knowledge, and personal network required to win. These people can not be corruptable. It defeats the purpose if we get our people elected and they fall into the pocket of the CFR anyway.


With that said, what do we do this year? There are so many different theories at play and I highly doubt we will all agree on one (which is why almost none of them are likely to have the kind of impact we want).

1) We can vote for Obama to stop McCain and the Neo-cons. As I said before, if we are trying to make a "point" to the GOP so they learn their lesson, it wont work. THEY... DON'T... CARE.

Furthermore, as much as I hate the Neo-Cons, a socialist/communist like Obama will absolutely destroy this country virtually beyond repair. Obama will keep spending us into oblivion (just as the Republicans will on war), will support the CFR agenda so he may as well be a Neo-Con himself, will support the police state policies, will keep our troops in Iraq for years, and will raise taxes beyond 50% thereby wiping out the middle class to give your hard-earned money to those who didn't earn it.

When hard-working Americans who are trying to strive for a better life for themselves and their families have their wealth stripped away and given to some lazy worker in the "entitlement" generation that has no ambition to do anything (or may possibly be here illegally), then you destroy the core fabric that made this country great.

The Welfare State is even worse than the Police State (though both are pretty bad), because it undermines the incentive to strive to better your life. You think outsourcing is a problem now? You think unemployment is bad? You haven't seen ANYTHING yet if Obama wins. His philosophy is, the more you succeed the more the Government should be able to take from you and give it to others.

Oh, he loves to talk about "change" but many of the people that he is appealing to are on the RECEIVING end of that economic redistribution line.

As Ron Paul says over and over again, this is also why many of the illegals keep coming here. There is an incentive to do so.

Obama as President will usher in an unprecedented decline in productivity and standard of living for middle-class Americans, and he wouldn't fix any of our other problems anyway so we really wouldn't be that much safer than if McCain was in office (as much as I hate to say it because I hate that turtle-headed buffoon).

So the idea that people would vote for Obama to "teach the GOP a lesson" is absolutely ridiculous. It wont accomplish anything and may make problems much much worse.

2) We can vote third party. There is some merit to this decision because voting on principal will always help long term. The herd mentality of "I don't want to vote for someone who can't win" is precisely why a third party can't win. It is one of the reasons why Ron Paul didn't win the nomination. The media always portrayed him as a "longshot" even from the very beginning. So voting based on principal if there truly is a candidate that embodies what we stand for is an effective way to start to give a third party candidate viability.

Keep in mind that one of the PRIMARY reasons why Ron Paul isn't running Independent or 3rd party is because he knows how hard it is to win. He knows how difficult it is for a 3rd party to even get into the debates or be heard without serious money behind them. If we started to change this thinking then it is possible that a future "Ron Paul type" candidate would not have as much of an obstacle in front of them.

The only way a third party candidate will ever have viability is if we MAKE them have viability. In other countries smaller parties form collisions and back one candidate. If the third parties in this country would set aside their pride and infighting for two seconds they would realize that a good showing by ANY third party candidate is a good showing for all of them. Otherwise they will NEVER break through the two party CFR-controlled stranglehold on our country.

3) We can write in Ron Paul. I've thought about this a lot and have gone back and forth. There are parts of me that would love to do this just based on my own pride. It is a "feel-good" vote. Unfortunately, it will have little impact on our long term goals and may not even be reported by the media at all. It certainly IS NOT going to teach the GOP a lesson like "see you should have listened to us". Again, the people behind both parties don't care.

It IS possible that on a very localized level it could have an impact and could persuade some people if it was reported, but I believe this might be fleeting. We will do a better job persuading people through education and forming a network of 180,000 precinct leaders.

But a write in Ron Paul campaign will do little to change the minds of die-hard Republicans. And here is the FUNDAMENTAL REASON WHY. They don't really care about Freedom or Liberty! They care more about their "PARTY" than they do about America. They are party loyalists and want to work their way up the ladder of power.

Sometimes I wish that Ron Paul would have written the same book "A Manifesto" and not put his name on it. Almost every person I've talked to agrees with EVERYTHING in the book, but they have been brainwashed into thinking Ron Paul is a crazy nutjob radical (along with his supporters).

So writing in Ron Paul isn't going to do much. The GOP sees our Movement as a threat and they will still see it that way four years from now. And even for some of the rational people that start to give us the benefit of the doubt, in four years the power of the GOP will once again trickle down from the top to the State, County, and local levels. They will get their marching orders and will follow through like good little zombie soldiers.

Most people won't remember Ron Paul or what he stood for (because most of them don't even understand him now) other than some of them will still be pissed off at the coup we pulled off in many states. They are going to come prepared next time. There will be no element of surprise. Oh, they will have "learned their lesson" but it wont be the lesson we wanted them to learn.

So as great as it sounds to write in Ron Paul, it isn't really a solution.


I love the Conference For Liberty ideas because it helps cement the Movement as a sustainable Revolution that isn't going to fade (which is exactly what they think we will do). It helps educate additional Americans to the popularity of Freedom and the other choices available. It helps increase the exposure of the our platform and ideas.

It is a stepping stone to future success and we need to be planning similar shows of organized support. How many times do you see on TV where people protest or picket for some cause or another? People are immune to it and in some cases those people are branded as "radicals" or "extremists" and their views are dismissed. Fighting back against the CFR with signs is like bringing a knife to a Tank fight. I'm sure it has SOME impact if it gets reported but it is forgotten two seconds later as soon as American Idol or Grays Anatomy or LOST comes on.

We need to think outside of the box. We need to get really organized and fight back on the same level that they are fighting us. Large events, professional DVDs & Videos, constant education, professional films or documentaries, forming local groups and creating a massive database of supporters and leaders, and of course funding.

THAT is how you win and take back this country.

FreedomRings
06-25-2008, 03:17 PM
Can one do such a thing?

http://www.intrade.com

fr33domfightr
06-25-2008, 03:57 PM
This is the link to the Los Angeles Times' story about the poll. Make sure you click on the graphic to see the charts. McCain's support is in the gutter!


http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-poll25-2008jun25,0,5763707.story


FF

Indy4Chng
06-25-2008, 04:02 PM
McCain is just an awful candidate- sort of like Bob Dole, but without Dole's integrity, charisma, intelligence, and (relatively) youthful vigor.


+1.

SLSteven
06-25-2008, 04:08 PM
At least Bob Dole had a sense of humor.