Missouri will be one of five guinea pigs for REAL ID... AAAAAAAKKKKKKKK!!!

[Roxi]

http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080622/NEWS01/806220378&s=d&page=2#pluckcomments




Kansas City -- Missouri will get $17 million to help develop and test the Real ID program and will house a verification hub to help states validate identification cards.
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The federal Real ID Demonstration Grants were announced Friday by the Homeland Security Department.

Officials with the Missouri Department of Revenue said the money will help the state develop and test a national "verification hub," a key factor in allowing states to validate licenses and identification cards.

"We would be a single access point for different states," said David Griffith, spokesman for the Missouri Department of Revenue. "Missouri is in the position to improve security for all state driver's licenses."

The Bush administration says Real ID's requirement for more secure identification will hinder terrorists and illegal immigrants.

Under Real ID, states would have to bring their driver's licenses under a national standard and link their license record-keeping systems.

Implementation of Real ID would require the public to show need Real ID-compliant driver's licenses or other identification in order to enter federal buildings or board airplanes.
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But some states have viewed the act as an unfunded mandate, and critics say it's a violation of privacy for the government to have access to so much information. In some states, residents have staged protests condemning the Real ID Act.

Missouri Rep. Jim Guest, a King City Republican, has been a vocal opponent of Real ID.

"I would oppose that even if they fund it," he said Friday. "I don't think you can put a price on your privacy. This nation is at a crossroads right now, and if we go down the road and lose more freedoms, we'll never get them back."

Each of the 48 states that applied for federal grants to assist with the program will get some funding.

While Missouri is set to lead the development of the "verification hub," four other states will also be instrumental, Homeland Security officials said in a news release.

Florida, Indiana, Nevada and Wisconsin will each receive $1.2 million to partner with Missouri for the hub testing and implementation.

Eventually, other states and territories will connect to the verification hub and have the capability to verify applicants' source documents.




Last I heard Missouri had rejected the real ID.... why all of a sudden are we not only getting them but we are going to be a main info hub for the rest of the country??? and what impact does the NAFTA hwy going straight through KC have on this?

geez do i have to move again?

[yongrel]

The Show Me State is becoming the Show My Personal Info State.

[jsteilKS]

Probably because Matt Blunt sold the air base in South kansas City, Mo. They are making a huge NAFTA distribution place out there now. I'm guessing that Kansas City will be a major hub for everything down the road.

[Roxi]

Probably because Matt Blunt sold the air base in South kansas City, Mo. They are making a huge NAFTA distribution place out there now. I'm guessing that Kansas City will be a major hub for everything down the road.



double AAAAKKKKKKK

[Roxi]

update:


the credit card machines at several gas stations say "please swipe your RFID media or credit card now"


and the lady asked for my ID when i bought cigarettes and then scanned the back of it on her PC, it popped up with a large version of my ID.... wonder how long it will take before my medical records are on there too?

[Sematary]

We have GOT to stop REAL ID

[JohnMeridith]

I will be moving out of FL if this happens. That free state project is looking tempting now.

[Aldanga]

Probably because Matt Blunt sold the air base in South kansas City, Mo. They are making a huge NAFTA distribution place out there now. I'm guessing that Kansas City will be a major hub for everything down the road.

Maybe I should move....

They are planning on running the NAFTA Super Highway through Gardner, Kansas. (That's just south of my home.)


I may be moving right after graduation. That doesn't sound so bad.

[Sematary]

I will be moving out of FL if this happens. That free state project is looking tempting now.

OR, you could work to DEFEAT Real ID in your state.

[Sematary]

http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080622/NEWS01/806220378&s=d&page=2#pluckcomments







Last I heard Missouri had rejected the real ID.... why all of a sudden are we not only getting them but we are going to be a main info hub for the rest of the country??? and what impact does the NAFTA hwy going straight through KC have on this?

geez do i have to move again?

Missouri opposes REAL ID and called upon Congress to repeal it but did not reject it.
http://epic.org/privacy/id-cards/mo_hcr20.pdf

[micahnelson]

I thought we weren't allowed to discuss illegal activity on this forum. Real ID is illegal under the highest law in the land.

[thehighwaymanq]

Can somebody give me a factual, concise link about Real ID and why people are against it. I am not educuated in this topic at all I have no idea what it's about/ pros and cons. I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks

[JohnMeridith]

OR, you could work to DEFEAT Real ID in your state.
Trust me, I spread the word daily.

[Roxi]

from my blog:

http://roxisjunk.blogspot.com/2007/09/save-your-country-pass-it-on-all-you.html




the Real ID:

President Bush is expected to sign an $82 billion military spending bill soon that will, in part, create electronically readable, federally approved ID cards for Americans. The House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved the package--which includes the Real ID Act

Starting three years from now, if you live or work in the United States, you'll need a federally approved ID card to travel on an airplane, open a bank account, collect Social Security payments, or take advantage of nearly any government service. Practically speaking, your driver's license likely will have to be reissued to meet federal standards.

The Real ID Act hands the Department of Homeland Security the power to set these standards and determine whether state drivers' licenses and other ID cards pass muster. Only ID cards approved by Homeland Security can be accepted "for any official purpose" by the feds.

You'll still get one through your state motor vehicle agency, and it will likely take the place of your drivers' license. But the identification process will be more rigorous.

For instance, you'll need to bring a "photo identity document," document your birth date and address, and show that your Social Security number is what you had claimed it to be. U.S. citizens will have to prove that status, and foreigners will have to show a valid visa.

State DMVs will have to verify that these identity documents are legitimate, digitize them and store them permanently. In addition, Social Security numbers must be verified with the Social Security Administration.

What's going to be stored on this ID card?
At a minimum: name, birth date, sex, ID number, a digital photograph, address, and a "common machine-readable technology" that Homeland Security will decide on. The card must also sport "physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes."

Homeland Security is permitted to add additional requirements--such as a fingerprint or retinal scan--on top of those. We won't know for a while what these additional requirements will be.

Why did these ID requirements get attached to an "emergency" military spending bill?
Because it's difficult for politicians to vote against money that will go to the troops in Iraq and tsunami relief. The funds cover ammunition, weapons, tracked combat vehicles, aircraft, troop housing, death benefits, and so on.

The House already approved a standalone version of the Real ID Act in February, but by a relatively close margin of 261-161. It was expected to run into some trouble in the Senate. Now that it's part of an Iraq spending bill, senators won't want to vote against it.

What's the justification for this legislation anyway?
Its supporters say that the Real ID Act is necessary to hinder terrorists, and to follow the ID card recommendations that the 9/11 Commission made last year.

It will "hamper the ability of terrorist and criminal aliens to move freely throughout our society by requiring that all states require proof of lawful presence in the U.S. for their drivers' licenses to be accepted as identification for federal purposes such as boarding a commercial airplane, entering a federal building, or a nuclear power plant," Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner, a Wisconsin Republican, said during the debate Thursday.

You said the ID card will be electronically readable. What does that mean?
The Real ID Act says federally accepted ID cards must be "machine readable," and lets Homeland Security determine the details. That could end up being a magnetic strip, enhanced bar code, or radio frequency identification (RFID) chips.

In the past, Homeland Security has indicated it likes the concept of RFID chips. The State Department is already going to be embedding RFID devices in passports, and Homeland Security wants to issue RFID-outfitted IDs to foreign visitors who enter the country at the Mexican and Canadian borders. The agency plans to start a yearlong test of the technology in July at checkpoints in Arizona, New York and Washington state.

Will state DMVs share this information?
Yes. In exchange for federal cash, states must agree to link up their databases. Specifically, the Real ID Act says it hopes to "provide electronic access by a state to information contained in the motor vehicle databases of all other states."

Is this legislation a done deal?
Pretty much. The House of Representatives approved the package on Thursday by a vote of 368-58. Only three of the "nay" votes were Republicans; the rest were Democrats. The Senate is scheduled to vote on it next week and is expected to approve it as well.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan has told reporters "the president supports" the standalone Real ID Act, and the Bush administration has come out with an official endorsement. As far back as July 2002, the Bush administration has been talking about assisting "the states in crafting solutions to curtail the future abuse of drivers' licenses by terrorist organizations."

Who were the three Republicans who voted against it?
Reps. Howard Coble of North Carolina, John Duncan of Tennessee, and Ron Paul of Texas.

Paul has warned that the Real ID Act "establishes a national ID card" and "gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to unilaterally add requirements as he sees fit."

Is this a national ID card?
It depends on whom you ask. Barry Steinhardt, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's technology and liberty program, says: "It's going to result in everyone, from the 7-Eleven store to the bank and airlines, demanding to see the ID card. They're going to scan it in. They're going to have all the data on it from the front of the card...It's going to be not just a national ID card but a national database."

At the moment, state driver's licenses aren't easy for bars, banks, airlines and so on to swipe through card readers because they're not uniform; some may have barcodes but no magnetic stripes, for instance, and some may lack both. Steinhardt predicts the federalized IDs will be a gold mine for government agencies and marketers. Also, he notes that the Supreme Court ruled last year that police can demand to see ID from law-abiding U.S. citizens.

Will it be challenged in court?
Maybe. "We're exploring whether there are any litigation possibilities here," says the ACLU's Steinhardt.

One possible legal argument would challenge any requirement for a photograph on the ID card as a violation of religious freedom. A second would argue that the legislation imposes costs on states without properly reimbursing them.

When does it take effect?
in May 2008.



this was my original source on this i believe

http://news.cnet.com/FAQ-How-Real-ID-will-affect-you---page-3/2100-1028_3-5697111-3.html?tag=st.next

[Roxi]

http://news.cnet.com/FAQ-How-Real-ID-will-affect-you/2100-1028_3-5697111.html?tag=mncol;txt

was actually the first page... there were 3 total

[BarryDonegan]

civil disobedience. if 1% resists, the program fails.

i will not take the REAL ID, even if it means I have to eat out of trashcans.

[Roxi]

http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfns=1&q=REAL+ID+FAQ



other good info

[Kalifornia]

Guess I wont be coming home anytime soon. Even CA hasnt sunk THAT far.

Seriously, get out now. NH, WY, MT, ID, even WA isnt horrible. MO has been sold the total Neocon line of crapula.

[Shotdown1027]

We slaughtered the REAL ID in Louisiana. Our governor even signed legislation telling our Department of Transportation NOT to comply with the REAL ID.

[Knightskye]

The Show Me State is becoming the Show My Personal Info State.

Show Me Your Papers.

[hotbrownsauce]

hmmm I live in Missouri..... maybe its time to form a coalition against the real id act in Missouri if there isn't one already?

It's now on my "I'll check it out list"

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

[hotbrownsauce]

my first search showed this

http://legislatorsagainstrealid.com/statestatus.php

Missouri
HCR 20, relating to a prohibition on the implementation of the federal
Real ID Act. (Adopted 5/17/07)

HB 868, prohibits the state from participating in any national ID system
that uses driving records.

SCR 11 prohibits the state from participating in the implementation of the
Real ID Act. (Passed committee 2/28/07)

[Knightskye]

my first search showed this

http://legislatorsagainstrealid.com/statestatus.php

Missouri
HCR 20, relating to a prohibition on the implementation of the federal
Real ID Act. (Adopted 5/17/07)

HB 868, prohibits the state from participating in any national ID system
that uses driving records.

SCR 11 prohibits the state from participating in the implementation of the
Real ID Act. (Passed committee 2/28/07)

So does that mean they can't?

[hotbrownsauce]

hmmm it looks like it.

I need to go to sleep I'll look into it later... anyone else that wants to before me I wont stop you =). I've got a busy schedule anyway.

[Dreamofunity]

I will be moving out of FL if this happens. That free state project is looking tempting now.

Figured Florida would join in. I'll have to come join you up north when they do.

[Kludge]

Show Me Your Papers.

I thought the government already asks that of us....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/USCurrency_Federal_Reserve.jpg

[Liberty Rebellion]

Hey hotbrownsauce, you met me at the CD2 convention ;)

Anyways, anti-REAL ID legislation passed the House last year without only 3 "Naes" and went on to the Senate where we would have surely passed the bill.
See history for the bill here:
http://www.house.mo.gov/billtracking/bills081/action/aHB1716.htm

However, the Senate majority leader Shields was coaxed by Gov. Blunt to not bring the bill for a vote because he didn't want to have to veto it as he is planning on running for his daddy's spot in the Federal Government. It would have passed the Senate had it come to a vote and Shields complained that he felt he was being harrassed with all the phone and emails to his office and then the phone calls to his home. Well, duh, do your job! You work for us!

We're going to be pushing strong in MO and as a matter of fact it's on right now before MO Congress is even back in session. I'm getting together this weekend for a strategy meeting with some very talented people and we're taking it to the street!

Personally, I refuse to participate in this program; it's my line in the sand and I WILL NOT CROSS IT - PERIOD!

Roxic - where in MO are you? Those signs on gas pumps you are seeing don't apply to REAL ID. Those are for credit cards issued by the gas stations or other credit card companies, think Mobil Speed pass. Other than that, my MO driver's license has had a barcode on it since at least '99. And the format was only changed again with additional security features in '03
http://dor.mo.gov/mvdl/drivers/newlicense.pdf

From what I understand of MO's participation in the program thus far is that they are the focal point of the new database that will connect all the other States together.

Don't worry, this will be defeated next MO Congress!

[Roxi]

im near monett, and yeah my ID has had the barcode for a long time, but the first time anyone has ever swiped it at a gas station was last week...

and the cc machines are new... they also have never said anything about real ID media... i know a couple people who already have a real ID but they are from other states... i am going to be renewing my ID soon so i imagine ill get one


from what i heard, MO originally said no to the REAL ID... then matt blunt got paid and BAM look what we got now :)

im seriously considering moving to Lake Jackson TX sometime next year.... or Paulville, LOL

[Liberty Rebellion]

im near monett, and yeah my ID has had the barcode for a long time, but the first time anyone has ever swiped it at a gas station was last week...

and the cc machines are new... they also have never said anything about real ID media... i know a couple people who already have a real ID but they are from other states... i am going to be renewing my ID soon so i imagine ill get one


from what i heard, MO originally said no to the REAL ID... then matt blunt got paid and BAM look what we got now :)

im seriously considering moving to Lake Jackson TX sometime next year.... or Paulville, LOL

I'm kind of confused about this statement
and the cc machines are new... they also have never said anything about real ID media...

Are you saying the new CC machines are saying something about REAL ID media as opposed to the old ones not saying anything?

Can you elaborate on "REAL ID media"? RFID isn't particular to REAL ID if that's what you're getting at.

I'll be renewing my ID next week, but I doubt it will be REAL ID. I haven't seen one in MO yet and I'm sure if they were being issued them we'd be the first to hear about it given Rep. Guest is the national legislative leader on anti-REAL ID legistlation(http://legislatorsagainstrealid.com/)

[freelance]

civil disobedience. if 1% resists, the program fails.

i will not take the REAL ID, even if it means I have to eat out of trashcans.

So far, so good:

http://www.legislature.state.tn.us/bills/currentga/asp/WebBillInfo/BillCompanionInfo.aspx?billnumber=SJR0248

[werdd]

That's strange if you ask me. I really consider MO to be one of the more libertarian states.

Cigarettes are still 2 bucks a pack, you can smoke anywhere you want, property taxes are very low, so are sales taxes, and in many rural areas roads are funded by the community.

[raystone]

Can somebody give me a factual, concise link about Real ID and why people are against it. I am not educuated in this topic at all I have no idea what it's about/ pros and cons. I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks

http://www.unrealid.com/what.html

[ShowMeLiberty]

That's strange if you ask me. I really consider MO to be one of the more libertarian states.

Cigarettes are still 2 bucks a pack, you can smoke anywhere you want, property taxes are very low, so are sales taxes, and in many rural areas roads are funded by the community.

:confused:

What part of Missouri are you talking about? It sure as heck isn't like that anywhere around Kansas City.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

The Show Me State is becoming the Show My Personal Info State.

lol... haha yeah

hmm..

did New Jersey pass it?

[scandinaviany3]

its time to move to a state with a backbone and leave them to their insanity

[nullvalu]

Jim Guest must be majorily pissed about this, he's a state rep from MO. He formed Legislators Against Read ID (http://legislatorsagainstrealid.com/) and is a Ron Paul supporter. I met him at a Ron Paul rally in Chicago. Check out his site.

[Jeremy]

move to nh, free state project!

if they tried doing that there.... oh you better believe it wouldn't be pretty!

[nullvalu]

move to nh, free state project!

if they tried doing that there.... oh you better believe it wouldn't be pretty!

Yeah, we seen how their "independent" voice was heard in the primaries. They elected McCain. :P

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Is New Jersey going to have the REAL ID?

[Jeremy]

Yeah, we seen how their "independent" voice was heard in the primaries. They elected McCain. :P

Wow, one party where a very small portion of the people vote is no indication of how free the state is. The Free State Project took a long time to decide and vote for which state they would use, and NH won for the right reasons. If you knew anything about what's going on, you'd know that people there are already using civil disobedience. In fact, just this morning there was "illegal" activity going on in a park. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHVhnIoey3U

[nullvalu]

Wow, one party where a very small portion of the people vote is no indication of how free the state is. The Free State Project took a long time to decide and vote for which state they would use, and NH won for the right reasons. If you knew anything about what's going on, you'd know that people there are already using civil disobedience. In fact, just this morning there was "illegal" activity going on in a park. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHVhnIoey3U

Relax buddy, i was just joking around. I'm just not ready to "give up" on my state. Indiana is perhaps one of the most 2nd-Amendment friendly states in the union. If they do pass Real ID here tho, then I will consider moving.

[hotbrownsauce]

Hey hotbrownsauce, you met me at the CD2 convention ;)

Anyways, anti-REAL ID legislation passed the House last year without only 3 "Naes" and went on to the Senate where we would have surely passed the bill.
See history for the bill here:
http://www.house.mo.gov/billtracking/bills081/action/aHB1716.htm

However, the Senate majority leader Shields was coaxed by Gov. Blunt to not bring the bill for a vote because he didn't want to have to veto it as he is planning on running for his daddy's spot in the Federal Government. It would have passed the Senate had it come to a vote and Shields complained that he felt he was being harrassed with all the phone and emails to his office and then the phone calls to his home. Well, duh, do your job! You work for us!

We're going to be pushing strong in MO and as a matter of fact it's on right now before MO Congress is even back in session. I'm getting together this weekend for a strategy meeting with some very talented people and we're taking it to the street!

Personally, I refuse to participate in this program; it's my line in the sand and I WILL NOT CROSS IT - PERIOD!

Roxic - where in MO are you? Those signs on gas pumps you are seeing don't apply to REAL ID. Those are for credit cards issued by the gas stations or other credit card companies, think Mobil Speed pass. Other than that, my MO driver's license has had a barcode on it since at least '99. And the format was only changed again with additional security features in '03
http://dor.mo.gov/mvdl/drivers/newlicense.pdf

From what I understand of MO's participation in the program thus far is that they are the focal point of the new database that will connect all the other States together.

Don't worry, this will be defeated next MO Congress!

Hi we sure did meet each other at CD2.

you said

We're going to be pushing strong in MO and as a matter of fact it's on right now before MO Congress is even back in session. I'm getting together this weekend for a strategy meeting with some very talented people and we're taking it to the street!
is there a way for myself and everyone else to help you?

[Jeremy]

Relax buddy, i was just joking around. I'm just not ready to "give up" on my state. Indiana is perhaps one of the most 2nd-Amendment friendly states in the union. If they do pass Real ID here tho, then I will consider moving.

:D

[Micah Dardar]

On my trip to the Rally For The Republic, I enjoyed St. Louis, MO and Chicago, IL the most, and both Indiana and Kentucky the least. I really thought that Louisiana was bad until I went through those two states. I've never seen so many cops in my life. I was actually happy to get back into Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, and finally Louisiana.

You northerners seem to have a lot more general governmental intrusions into your business. I'm sure that if Indiana police keep acting so fascist, Louisiana may not have the highest incarceration rate in the world for very much longer.

I thoroughly enjoyed riding through St. Louis and most of eastern Missouri. I found St. Louis to be the most comfortable city that a New Orleanian like myself could move to if our city one day no longer exists. I hope that you people in Missouri can save your state.

[Jeremy]

If they have big truck loads of ID cards, you should go all Boston Tea Party over them

[libertythor]

Probably because Matt Blunt sold the air base in South kansas City, Mo. They are making a huge NAFTA distribution place out there now. I'm guessing that Kansas City will be a major hub for everything down the road.

FUCK

I guess Kansas City may become the unofficial administrative capital of the US, all powerful with ALL moneymaking decisions coming through it....yes worse that Washington, DC......think MEXICO CITY.

[puppetmaster]

They have the machines now at many bars and casinos that they scan in and it checks you against a database. They only use it with Nevada ID so far, not a passport.

It gives them a green light after a second or two. I asked if it was a device for marketing and he said no it was checking the ID in a database

[nayjevin]

its time to move to a state with a backbone and leave them to their insanity

what state do you live in?

states don't have backbones. people have backbones.

[hotbrownsauce]

They have the machines now at many bars and casinos that they scan in and it checks you against a database. They only use it with Nevada ID so far, not a passport.

It gives them a green light after a second or two. I asked if it was a device for marketing and he said no it was checking the ID in a database

When I go to the casino in St. Louis Missouri or East St. Louis (Also known as Illinois or western Illinois. Its right across the river from STL. everyone calls it the East Side or East St. Louis but it is actually Illinois) the security at the gate run the card and a blown up version of my ID is shown on the screen. But I'm rather sure it is just the coding on the back of the license sort of like a bar code or the magnetic strip on a credit card. Some credit cards are using RFID or the "Speed pass" by mobile gas station. Mc Donalds has RFID readers for credit cards. My friend purposely tries to use them. He says that no one has them anymore.... but who knows? I still see them around.