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Lord Xar
06-23-2008, 05:39 PM
apparently, this forum as well as a few other freedom and liberty loving bastions of Hope are being infiltrated and bombarded by the opposition.

IF YOU ARE A TRUE RON PAUL FREEDOM LOVING SUPPORTER, PERHAPS THESE OPTIONS ARE YOUR ONLY CHOICE :-)

1. Stay Home - don't vote
2. Vote for Either Bobb Barr or Chuck Baldwin
3. Write-In RON PAUL'S NAME

Any other vote - be in McCain or Obama, you will perpetuate the horrendous elite controlled big government agenda that is steamrolling this country into the mud.
You will acknowledge your own capitulation to the very thing we fight for because of the media's greatest tactic 'vote for the lesser of two evils'. When ur choices are picked for you, you are NOT voting for the lesser of two evils, just one of the puppets put in front of you.

note this interesting tidbit below. Got it off alipac.us
Sorta reminds me of Pelosi's removing congress's approval to wage war on
Iran (at AIPAC's insistance - and who is aipac?). Its all starting to come together, isn't it.

************

RIP, America
By Karl Schwarz
6-23-8

Do not think this resurgence of emails from me means I am back writing regularly. I am extremely busy but have had a few things that needed saying and then my focus returns immediately and totally to my nanotechnology business. This is probably the last email from me for a long time other than those related to nanotech matters.

Some say I am too doom-and-gloom, but that is not accurate. I am very pragmatic, and objective rather than subjective. I have great hopes that America can be rehabilitated and head back into the right direction...but I fully realize how slim those chances are at this point in time. I see things clearly and just tell it like it is.

The bottom line: America is never going to get fixed until people get off their butts and fix it. The level of apathy, complacency, misguided priorities, lack of critical thinking, etc are killing this country.

I do not sign off on the DC liars and their propaganda. I choose not to live a lie or within The Matrix they have created.

Over 2,000 years ago, John the Baptist was shouting from the desert about something very important and the Jews did not listen to him then. I make it a point to read Isaiah 53 every month just as a reminder of which side I am on. I am on God's side for Truth and what is Right, first and foremost. That is the most hated, most avoided passage of the Old Testament if one is Jewish.

It is not just me who is warning you, and urging you to wake up before it is too late. Many modern-day John the Baptists are saying the same things such as Jeff Rense, John Stadtmiller, Meria Heller, myself and many others. Many are listening, too many are not listening. Many are trying to push to get the momentum going to straighten out the problems; too many are like dead weight and refuse to move at all.

There is a saying that fits: Lead, follow or get the hell out of my way!

I am the sort of man who refuses to live under the tyranny of a lie. I refuse to live under any tyranny. I refuse to allow my life, and my perceptions of my life, or its directions to be influenced, governed or ruled by any form of deceit.

Freedom and Liberty are not expendable assets to me, nor are they a gift of the United States government to me to give or take as it sees fit. God granted me the right of freedom and liberty and no man, no woman is going to lie me into surrendering either. Said another way, I will not forfeit my freedom or liberty to anyone for any reason. I certainly will not surrender it to a US government that pretends to be protecting me and is ONLY protecting itself and its own perverted interests.

The only thing that matters to me is the Truth. Trust me, you have not heard the simple, unadulterated truth from Washington, DC in about 45 years.

America is in deep trouble and nothing is getting repaird, the hole is getting deeper and deeper every day. The odds are growing exponentially that America is going to fail and sink into second or third world status - if not complete anarchy - or it will cease to exist.

For years, I have heard the rumors of a civil war in America based on race. I disagree. If there is going to be a civil war it will be over finances, energy, food, and Americans out to get the bastards who murdered the American Dream.

There are several "great delusions" in America that have been intentionally born and bred by our RNC*DNC dominated political system; the willful endless lies and propaganda emanating from both public and corporate agendas, and that Americans truly have a democratic choice in who will lead America.

One of my readers in Australia kindly sent the following excerpt to use in my next statement on the affairs of my homeland, an Independent 'State of the Union' assessment of where we are as a people and where we are headed.

Right now, America is on a downhill greased track straight to Hell and total ruination. That is the ugly reality of it and no leadership in sight will lift a finger to change it.

We lost being Number One a long time ago and that is what angered me. It is what we lost and how we lost it and there is a very long list of what America is no longer Number One in. I know the American Dream is dead; I saw it die and was there when it died. I was an eyewitness to its death.

One of the greatest lies put forth on America is that the Republicans are just for the 'wealthy' and the Democrats are the true party for the 'people.'

The only people who are truly for the people, the Constitution, freedom, liberty, what is right are the conservatives in America. I am not talking about every "ist" and "ism" that has been created to facture our nation. I am talking about the true values, character and strength that were once a great nation we called America. Those other folks are communists and socialists, and now fascists, who have labored for years to turn the U.S. into a "more successful communist state".

When they figured out they could not sell that [communism] to America, they bundled it up as fascism all wrapped up in Christianity, the flag, patriotism and the utterly fraudulent Global 'War on Terror.'

To me, the biggest morons in America are those who think George W Bush is a man of God and a conservative. He is just about everything else.

Even if you have to read this two or three times, please read it, pay attention and think because it is important.

"The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can 'throw the rascals out' at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy."

-- Carroll Quigley, Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in our Time.

That statement is absolutely true but is also one of the greatest myths that the American people live under. Americans do not have a democratic choice of who will lead their country. The powers that be cannot and will not allow that to happen. They cannot have a great leader rise up from among the people and truly blow out Washington DC and affect true change, real change, that is for the good of the people.

I use what some call "colorful metaphors" to get people to think, such as "it is time to flush the toilet in Washington, DC." It truly is way past time for that, and if it does not happen soon America is going to wind up like the Roman Empire. Our nation will be dead and rendered to the pages of history for future generations to learn from the mistakes of America.

The most important part of that citation is this:

"so that the American people can 'throw the rascals out' at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy."

You see, they have to make you think your vote counts. They have to make you think you are exercising a right of citizenship to throw the rascals out; that the literal balance of America is riding on your vote...but that is a complete lie. That is why I have decided to not endorse their lie by voting this year.

They absolutely do not want Americans to rise up and cause those "profound or extensive shifts in policy" needed to save the country.

The 2006 elections and all those DNC promises to end the war in Iraq are a timeless example of such a lie. The attempted makeover of anti-war Hillary to pro-war President Hillary Clinton is another good example of that same pattern of lying and deceit.

Those policies are not for your benefit. That is what Americans just cannot seem to get through their thick skulls. They were put into place by elitists, corporations, career politicians who sold us all out, and by other insiders and special interest groups for their benefit - and to your detriment.

They cannot keep the status quo, or business as usual, in Washington, DC if they allow you to make a difference and put real change into office, into power at the helm of America.

God forbid that the Department of Justice would be used to put many into prison who have raped this nation to death and plowed many of its citizens into the poorhouse through intentional fraud and criminal conduct.

That is why the morons in Congress work so feverously to legalize criminal conduct and provide all sorts of loop holes, exemptions and outright immunity from prosecution for criminal behavior by the select few.

God forbid that the CIA, NSA, DoD, FBI would be squared-off with the real financial terrorists on Wall Street and over in London, and clean house.

God forbid that an American leader would tell Israel to sit down and shut up, because Israeli demands are not necessarily in the best interest of Our Nation.

God forbid that our major corporations were to be led by men of honor and integrity and the giving lavish political donations to scumbags would be cut off.

God forbid that our military would be brought home and our corporations would have to work, use tact, honor, commercial business practices and not rely on business deals to be consummated by military force.

Do not misread those sentences, the god I am referring to is not GOD, it is the arrogant dirt we have running this nation who think they are god.

America could arise like a Phoenix to greatness again in an incredibly short time but that would take leadership that We the People do not have. The controllers just want us to think we have that choice.

That is why Rep. Ron Paul could not get the time of day from the media during the primaries. That is why I was attacked within days of announcing that I have the courage to run and take on this evil web of lies and criminal conduct that is destroying My Nation, Our Nation.

That is why we now have two hand-picked stooges named John McCain and Barack Obama - because they will not change anything and will continue the undermining and destruction of America for the benefit of their wealthy masters...the globalist bankster cartels on both sides of the Atlantic.

Some of the Founding Fathers saw the problem clearly, including Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Benjamin Franklin, et al.

"Experience hath shown, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted

with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."

- Thomas Jefferson

I wish more Americans had read the book I wrote, One-Way Ticket to Crawford, Texas, a Conservative Republican Speaks Out. That Jefferson quote was in the preface.

The following quotes were also in Chapter 1. Most Americans do not know that the largest newspaper in Arkansas did not endorse Bill Clinton for president in 1992 and shortly before the election that year issued this warning to voters:

"He has mastered the art of equivocation. There is something almost inhuman in his smoother responses that sends a shiver up the spine. It is not the compromises he has made that trouble so much as the unavoidable suspicion that he has no principles to compromise." -- Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, Oct. 28, 1992<#_ftn1>[1]

Another gifted Arkansas writer hit on the very theme of my entire book * we are all living a lie. WAKE UP!

"Maybe it is because of Clinton and our many years of having to deal with his lies, deceit and obfuscations in Arkansas that we Arkansans know a liar when we see one. We Conservative Arkansans do not have to look at a horseshoe very long to be able to tell you that it is, in fact, a horseshoe. Most of us, where I come from, have no problems with what the definition of "is" is.

"It is not a pleasant thought, or one that's often discussed, but lies are at base coercive. Deceit is a form of control. More than a few philosophers have compared the coercive force of lies to the power of violence. So even if they are common, they are not as benign as people pretend. Lies undermine the value of information, each one leaving us less able to trust the truthfulness of what we hear -- or read, as the case may be. Lies are more subtle than guns, but as threats to personal freedom, they should be regarded as no less dangerous." --Mara Leveritt in theArkansas Times

I trust that readers can accept that the above applies to all lies, too, whether they come from the Left or the Right or anywhere else. They are not limited to political ideologies, nor are they benign - regardless of which direction they come from to seduce or mislead us."

I have sat in the office of Governor Bill Clinton with other high level government people and have personally seen Bill Clinton do some of the sleaziest things I have ever seen done. His integrity is zero. The value of his word is in negative numbers.

Have you?

My office was in Washington DC for 7 years. I was in the RNC headquarters on average of about 4 times a month for 4 of those seven years.

I personally designed the RNC strategy that took the House and Senate away from Clinton in 1994. Both my ex-wife and I were with RNC Finance in Washington, DC that night to watch it happen. There were only 156 people allowed into that room. At that table were two retired admirals and their wives, my wife and I, a billionaire few Americans even know the name of, and the RNC Treasurer.

Ever been there, done that?

Pat Buchanan and I both severed ties with the RNC at about the same time. Had I known in 1994 what I knew in 1996, I would have never helped RNC get control of the House and Senate as a matter of principle. That was actually easy to do by picking just certain House districts to go after, certain Senate seats. A crosshair single-bullet approach rather than the shotgun approach most political races are.

Can you take a wild guess as to why we [Buchanan and Schwarz] left RNC?

Between 1994 to 1996 the RNC cut a deal with the DNC Jewish Zionist communists to get the Jew vote and money behind RNC so they would win more elections.

That included a shift in "media propaganda" and even how to sell a future war to stupid Americans. Think about that, Murdoch, FOX 'News', Clear Channel, and brace yourself for a possible epiphany.

Did you catch that? Did the last two paragraphs lodge squarely in your brain or did it go ear-to-ear and not touch a single brain cell?

Part of that strategy was to sell a Global 'War on Terror' to stupid Americans since Clinton would not launch a war against Afghanistan to take over that Bridas Corporation pipeline deal. That is why it was not that hard to get the DNC Jewish Zionist communists to come on over to RNC, dress up like conservative Neocons and get what they wanted.

Did you catch that?

I was there when it happened and walked. So did Pat Buchanan and many other true conservatives.

Other than the fact that we have thousands of dead Americans due to 9-11, tens of thousands of our US soldiers dead and maimed due to a bogus and completely bogus Global War on Terror, our government directly involved in lies, war crimes, genocide, torture, we also now have a resurgence of the Cold War with Russia.

Why?

Because Russia is fully-aware of what these idiots did. They watched almost 30 years of conniving and scheming to get control of the Caspian Basin's oil and natural gas. These same former DNC communist Jewish Zionists also hate Russia and wish very much for the US to carve up Russia because that is what they want and have always wanted.

They are the Trotskyites and their asses are still smoking that Stalin ran them out of Russia. These same types created communism, then created fascism in an attempt to overthrow Stalin and to this day are ruining America.

These people known as Neocons are not New Conservatives or Neoconservatives. They are the former DNC communist Jewish Zionists who defected from DNC to RNC because they could not get the DNC to be the War Party.

The real reason Bush is pushing both NATO and EU in the face of Russia is because George W Bush has completely failed in his mission to take over the Caspian Basin and get that oil under the control of US and UK interests.

If the US cannot control global energy, the US can no longer demand that all energy be traded in weak petrodollars.

This item came out the day before 9-11:

September 10, 2001: "Those who control the oil routes out of Central Asia will impact all future direction and quantities of flow and the distribution of revenues from new production," wrote energy expert James Dorian in Oil & Gas Journal, published the day before the terrorist attacks.

When petrodollars fail, the US is going to be swept into total financial ruin.

Instead of using diplomacy and commercial contracts, they dreamed up a Global War on Terror and then had to figure out how to sell that to stupid Americans. Their mostly likely suckers would be the Far Right Christians who were too naïve to tell the difference between a DNC Communist Zionist Jew and a Fake Conservative Neocon.

9-11-2001.

Never forget that date because history may well record that it was the day that America died.

Every pretense of being a great nation and being on some moral high ground died that day, so never forget that date. In 1994-1996 they were not calling it the Global War on Terror. What they were clearly doing was trying to find a way to sell Americans on massive shifts in policy and those policies were based on total lies.

Hence, 9-11 and the 'Global War on Terror.'

Have you paid attention to how many of the alleged terrorists that they cannot even make a case against? That is because the entire agenda is based on lies and they desperately want Americans to keep believing those lies and not to seek the truth.

This entire fiasco was planned between 1992-1996. We as Americans are now suffering from the blowback of one of the biggest mistakes, and most heinous and criminal in nature, our leaders have ever made, and it will not get fixed until we get rid of them and put someone into power who will fix it.

There are no easy answers. There are no painless, easy, manna from Heaven solutions.

America has to get into action or everything that was good and honorable about America will soon be dead.

That is my assessment of the State of the Union.

Karl
http://www.rense.com/general82/ripam.htm

G-Wohl
06-23-2008, 05:47 PM
OK, but Ron DOESN'T "say yes" to write-in votes. He has said to reporters and in interviews that this move is not the way to vote if you support his ideals.

And a vote for Chuck Baldwin is not a vote for "freedom" - it's a vote for a Christian state, which no libertarian should ever support.

Lord Xar
06-23-2008, 06:06 PM
And a vote for Chuck Baldwin is not a vote for "freedom" - it's a vote for a Christian state, which no libertarian should ever support.

You can vote bob barr or chuck baldwin, I clearly mentioned either choice as viable.
Bob Barr has his own monkeys on his back, so don't go fligging stones :-)

But shit, I don't care - vote for Barr. Just don't vote McCain or Obama, or as I like to say "Mc'bama" or "Obacain" <--- really just the same.

ronpaulhawaii
06-23-2008, 06:06 PM
Thanks Xar. And the more I see people attacking Barr and Baldwin, the more pissed off I get at both of them, for having such divisive supporters

Lord Xar
06-23-2008, 06:10 PM
Thanks Xar. And the more I see people attacking Barr and Baldwin, the more pissed off I get at both of them, for having such divisive supporters

I think that if someone is SO divisive and SO confrontational at either Barr or Baldwin, my radar goes up. Given that these two are HEAD AND SHOULDERS above the current special interest puppets, one needs to think "what is the motive".

Our movement is so infested with these same special interest shenannigans that we must always be on the look out.

So, to me -- BALDWIN or BARR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obama vs. Obama == The Lesser of two evils

Baldwin vs. Barr == The less of two goods


HUGE DIFFERENCE.

asgardshill
06-23-2008, 06:12 PM
Walls 'o text are hard on the eyes. But at least it has paragraphs.

ronpaulhawaii
06-23-2008, 06:15 PM
I think that if someone is SO divisive and SO confrontational at either Barr or Baldwin, my radar goes up. Given that these two are HEAD AND SHOULDERS above the current special interest puppets, one needs to think "what is the motive".

Our movement is so infested with these same special interest shenannigans that we must always be on the look out.

So, to me -- BALDWIN or BARR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obama vs. Obama == The Lesser of two evils

Baldwin vs. Barr == The less of two goods


HUGE DIFFERENCE.

+2008

That was well put :)

Jeremy
06-23-2008, 06:22 PM
#1 and #3 are virtually the same thing... he's not registering

G-Wohl
06-23-2008, 06:52 PM
I think that if someone is SO divisive and SO confrontational at either Barr or Baldwin, my radar goes up. Given that these two are HEAD AND SHOULDERS above the current special interest puppets, one needs to think "what is the motive".

Our movement is so infested with these same special interest shenannigans that we must always be on the look out.

So, to me -- BALDWIN or BARR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obama vs. Obama == The Lesser of two evils

Baldwin vs. Barr == The less of two goods


HUGE DIFFERENCE.

But Baldwin is certainly not a friend of this revolution, regardless of how well he personally knows Ron Paul. He's a Christian fundamentalist, and there's no way of getting around this. All Barr ever did was change his positions. And he changed his positions the right way.

I appreciate your concern that I may be a neo-conservative spy or one of the "establishment", you conspiracy theorist, but the fact is I'm just a libertarian who's trying to make sure that the real libertarians here don't get fooled into voting for a presidential candidate that does not respect our constitution (even though his party's name would have you think otherwise).

ronpaulhawaii
06-23-2008, 07:01 PM
...you conspiracy theorist, ....

:rolleyes:

ad-homs do not make your case for you, in fact, they lead me to want to vote Baldwin

speciallyblend
06-23-2008, 07:01 PM
You can vote bob barr or chuck baldwin, I clearly mentioned either choice as viable.
Bob Barr has his own monkeys on his back, so don't go fligging stones :-)

But shit, I don't care - vote for Barr. Just don't vote McCain or Obama, or as I like to say "Mc'bama" or "Obacain" <--- really just the same.

yep

literatim
06-23-2008, 07:04 PM
I would vote for Chuck Baldwin before I would vote for pretty much anyone the Libertarian Party would put up.

yongrel
06-23-2008, 07:05 PM
I'm showing up on voting day with a permanent marker in hand and Ron Paul in mind.

PaulineDisciple
06-23-2008, 07:31 PM
And a vote for Chuck Baldwin is not a vote for "freedom" - it's a vote for a Christian state, which no libertarian should ever support.
Well I guess you wouldn't have voted for any of our founding fathers either. Read your history, our nation was both the most Christian and the most free. And it was because they believed in biblical limits on government that they put so many limits on government. Please don't confuse a Huckabee version of Christianity with a Ron Paul version of Christianity.

I will admit though that non-Christians have highjacked the Christian faith in this country and these "Christians" have contributed to the destruction of the true Christian limits on government powers. Ron Paul is a prime example of how a true Christian would govern using biblical principles and how a true Christian would demonstrate his faith through his actions.

In fact, from what I know about Chuck Baldwin, he may very well put more limits on government than Bob Barr would.

yongrel
06-23-2008, 07:33 PM
Well I guess you wouldn't have voted for any of our founding fathers either. Read your history, our nation was both the most Christian and the most free. And it was because they believed in biblical limits on government that they put so many limits on government. Please don't confuse a Huckabee version of Christianity with a Ron Paul version of Christianity.

I will admit though that non-Christians have highjacked the Christian faith in this country and these "Christians" have contributed to the destruction of the true Christian limits on government powers. Ron Paul is a prime example of how a true Christian would govern using biblical principles and how a true Christian would demonstrate his faith through his actions.

In fact, from what I know about Chuck Baldwin, he may very well put more limits on government than Bob Barr would.

:rolleyes:

Can we please avoid this discussion in a thread that is not about the possibility of various theological influences in the founding of this country?

It seems to me that the OP meant for this thread to be something a bit different.

Alex Libman
06-23-2008, 07:39 PM
There's also the possibility of writing in someone like Jingozian or Ruwart, but all write-ins are problematic: some states don't count them, and the MSM will find it a lot easier to ignore them.

Barr is far from a perfect candidate, but he's the most libertarian man running. Think of it this way: by voting for Barr, you're voting for more than just the present candidates, you're also voicing your support for the Libertarian Party, which is a large-tent party with local presence in 50 states (+DC).

By voting for the LP you're supporting its legacy, including Ron Paul's run in 1988, and you're supporting its future, because Barr's success will build momentum for better LP candidates in 2012, 2016, and beyond!


---

Baldwin reminds me of Hitler before he came to power, and this forum needs to get rid of the theocratic nut-jobs by ostracizing them before they completely ruin Ron Paul's legacy! Sure, he's saying all the right things now, but imagine what his Prohibition, errr, I mean """Constitution""" party would do if they came to power on state level! They won't just stop at outlawing gambling and pornography as their platform is calling for, no sir! We're talking about Christian Taliban here! :eek:

G-Wohl
06-23-2008, 07:43 PM
Well I guess you wouldn't have voted for any of our founding fathers either. Read your history, our nation was both the most Christian and the most free. And it was because they believed in biblical limits on government that they put so many limits on government. Please don't confuse a Huckabee version of Christianity with a Ron Paul version of Christianity.

I will admit though that non-Christians have highjacked the Christian faith in this country and these "Christians" have contributed to the destruction of the true Christian limits on government powers. Ron Paul is a prime example of how a true Christian would govern using biblical principles and how a true Christian would demonstrate his faith through his actions.

In fact, from what I know about Chuck Baldwin, he may very well put more limits on government than Bob Barr would.

Read the Treaty of Tripoli. We're not a Christian nation.

I don't care what the founding fathers' influences were in creating our free state and our Constitution, but our own rule of law clearly states a required separation between church and state. And you're wrong on your facts; many of the founders were atheists or non-denominational.

Ron Paul's christianity is not Chuck Baldwin's. Ron Paul would never call for a twisted interpretation of the 1st amendment in the name of "decency" like Baldwin does. He wouldn't forbid gambling merely because it ruined the "traditional values" of the country. No self-respecting libertarian would ever force views on others like this, but Baldwin does it quite frequently.

He's a minister, and has connections to creeps like Jerry Falwell (I'm so saddened that there isn't any hell for him to go to). That alone should merit his speedy denial of our attention, but he further soils our good Constitution with his twisted religious views, and tries to enforce them on us, the People, who may not all want to live in his Christian utopia.

DeadtoSin
06-23-2008, 07:43 PM
But Baldwin is certainly not a friend of this revolution, regardless of how well he personally knows Ron Paul. He's a Christian fundamentalist, and there's no way of getting around this. All Barr ever did was change his positions. And he changed his positions the right way.

I appreciate your concern that I may be a neo-conservative spy or one of the "establishment", you conspiracy theorist, but the fact is I'm just a libertarian who's trying to make sure that the real libertarians here don't get fooled into voting for a presidential candidate that does not respect our constitution (even though his party's name would have you think otherwise).

Blah blah blah Christian hating blah blah blah.

Basically G Wohl you are a bigot. You hate Baldwin because he is a pastor. Does Ron Paul espouse the views of the current Republican party? No! Ron Paul is an individual.

Look at Baldwin's views, and you'll find that he agrees more with Ron Paul than anyone else. You are being a collectivist bigoted fool and I think you should be quiet.

ronpaulhawaii
06-23-2008, 07:46 PM
There's also the possibility of writing in someone like Jingozian or Ruwart, but all write-ins are problematic: some states don't count them, and the MSM will find it a lot easier to ignore them.

Barr is far from a perfect candidate, but he's the most libertarian man running. Think of it this way: by voting for Barr, you're voting for more than just the present candidates, you're also voicing your support for the Libertarian Party, which is a large-tent party with local presence in 50 states (+DC).

By voting for the LP you're supporting its legacy, including Ron Paul's run in 1988, and you're supporting its future, because Barr's success will build momentum for better LP candidates in 2012, 2016, and beyond!

...another post that makes me want to vote Baldwin, and to think I started out leaning towards Barr, keep it up guys and I'll be voting for Nader (ugh)

I'm just amazed that after a year of action people still do not seem to grasp the blowback effects of negative ads (your sig)

steph3n
06-23-2008, 07:46 PM
But Baldwin is certainly not a friend of this revolution, regardless of how well he personally knows Ron Paul. He's a Christian fundamentalist, and there's no way of getting around this. All Barr ever did was change his positions. And he changed his positions the right way.



While I will probably be voting for Barr, your anti christian sentiment is really stupid. I'd MUCH rather have a man like Baldwin as president than Mr fake christian bushie!

DeadtoSin
06-23-2008, 07:47 PM
And I can understand if you don't want to vote for Baldwin. I think Barr is a fine choice for your views, but you should seriously lay off the crap. I haven't decided between Barr or Baldwin. Baldwin probably won't even be on the ballot in Texas, so I'll more than likely be voting for Barr anyway.

yongrel
06-23-2008, 07:48 PM
Blah blah blah Christian hating blah blah blah.

Basically G Wohl you are a bigot. You hate Baldwin because he is a pastor. Does Ron Paul espouse the views of the current Republican party? No! Ron Paul is an individual.

Look at Baldwin's views, and you'll find that he agrees more with Ron Paul than anyone else. You are being a collectivist bigoted fool and I think you should be quiet.

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:cqcEwyFy9ECiVM:http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/1/picard-facepalm.jpg

1) Throwing out the word bigot does not mean you automatically win your argument. Especially when the term is not accurate.

2) Let's stop sidetracking this thread, shall we?

Alex Libman
06-23-2008, 07:50 PM
Read your history, our nation was both the most Christian and the most free.

Puritans do not represent the values of the United States. American founding fathers were as atheist as the society of that day would allow, that is deist. Jefferson even re-wrote the New Testament with Jesus as a mortal God-free hippie! And many other new-world nations (incl Australia and especially Latin America) are far more homogeneously Christian. Heck, even Greece is 98% Orthodox!


---

Baldwin reminds me of Hitler before he came to power, and this forum needs to get rid of the theocratic nut-jobs by ostracizing them before they completely ruin Ron Paul's legacy! Sure, he's saying all the right things now, but imagine what his Prohibition, errr, I mean """Constitution""" party would do if they came to power on state level! They won't just stop at outlawing gambling and pornography as their platform is calling for, no sir! We're talking about Christian Taliban here! :eek:

pinkmandy
06-23-2008, 07:51 PM
Thanks Xar. And the more I see people attacking Barr and Baldwin, the more pissed off I get at both of them, for having such divisive supporters

I'm feeling the same. You would all be more productive if you got out and convinced the rest of the world (blue pillers) to vote third party instead of ripping each other new ones in here, among people who will mostly vote third party anyway AND will even make up their own minds. Not every discussion needs to turn into a Baldwin is a theocrat vs. Barr is a neocon thread. :rolleyes:

DeadtoSin
06-23-2008, 07:51 PM
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:cqcEwyFy9ECiVM:http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/1/picard-facepalm.jpg

1) Throwing out the word bigot does not mean you automatically win your argument. Especially when the term is not accurate.

2) Let's stop sidetracking this thread, shall we?

Get over it Yongrel. He was sidetracking the thread by throwing out crap like "lol funadmentalist lololol". Basically he was practicing idiotic collectivism, and all you've got in response to me is that idiotic facepalm. QQ more, he is a bigot. He won my argument for me by saying things a bigot would say, not by me calling him out.

DeadtoSin
06-23-2008, 07:52 PM
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.


Sort of sounds like G-Wohl to me.

yongrel
06-23-2008, 07:52 PM
You Folks Are All On The Same Goddamned Side!

ronpaulhawaii
06-23-2008, 07:52 PM
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:cqcEwyFy9ECiVM:http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/1/picard-facepalm.jpg

1) Throwing out the word bigot does not mean you automatically win your argument. Especially when the term is not accurate.

2) Let's stop sidetracking this thread, shall we?

+2008

I gotta say that I am close to getting my mad tyrant hat out and deleting off topic posts

pinkmandy
06-23-2008, 07:59 PM
You Folks Are All On The Same Goddamned Side!


QFT!
:D

DeadtoSin
06-23-2008, 08:00 PM
I don't think I said anything out of line. He was being pretty intolerant of Baldwin simply for being pastor, and I called him out on it. If there wasn't so much trolling of Christians and atheists on this board, that'd be a lot nicer.

When you start thing the word fundamentalist around, I don't think the word bigot is so farfetched in that case.

There, I've said what I need to say.

constituent
06-23-2008, 09:17 PM
http://www.hennessy.id.au/quentingeorge/archives/arguingOnTheInternet.jpg

constituent
06-23-2008, 09:17 PM
+2008

I gotta say that I am close to getting my mad tyrant hat out and deleting off topic posts

please do.

LibertyEagle
06-23-2008, 09:42 PM
By voting for the LP you're supporting its legacy, including Ron Paul's run in 1988, and you're supporting its future, because Barr's success will build momentum for better LP candidates in 2012, 2016, and beyond!

Frankly, I could care less about supporting a particular political party or some "legacy". This isn't some kind of game we're playing. We're trying to save our country from going down the tubes. Tell me, didn't we learn anything from this whole deal about the stupidity of supporting a political party, instead of judging the candidate who is running? Not too long ago, we were jumping all over the Republicans for being loyal to their party, regardless of who the nominee was. They seemed to care more about their political party, than their country, right?

How is what you are suggesting any different than what we found so distasteful with the Republican party faithful?

pepperpete1
06-23-2008, 10:02 PM
I will be checking out the possible 3rd party candidates. Tomorrow I am going to meet with Chuck Baldwin and other Constitution party candidates in Grand Rapids. BUT I will wait til the rally in St. Paul before I make up my mind as to whether I write-in Ron Paul like my heart tells me to do or ............write-in whomever Ron Paul suggests. I am sure he cannot at this time endorse anyone but I will trust his knowledge of politics and the candidates.

purplechoe
06-23-2008, 10:50 PM
I initially meant to write in Ron Paul this November, but since that vote will not be counted I'll be voting for Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party!

I don't think that either Barr nor Baldwin will have enough support either separately or if they combined their efforts into one ticket for this November to take away the presidency from either Obama or McCain. I hope all of the Ron Paul supporters who have jumped ship to Obama would have stuck around and voted for either Baldwin or Barr to at least send a message to Washington that there's a real "change" :rolleyes: coming and hopefully keep that momentum growing to the next election so we'll have at least a shot then with a liberty minded candidate. Either way, next election all of us should pull together to try and get behind one candidate (maybe Ron will run again :)).

Anti Federalist
06-23-2008, 10:59 PM
I'm showing up on voting day with a permanent marker in hand and Ron Paul in mind.

I'll mark it in blood if I have to.

Anti Federalist
06-23-2008, 11:07 PM
You Folks Are All On The Same Goddamned Side!

Jesus - Supreme Being - Buddha - Thor - Christ, things are getting bad when I find myself agreeing with yongrel twice in one thread.

Pick one or the other, for fuck's sake, and get out there and convince others of your choice. Neither one stands an honest chance of winning but we better start letting the powers that be know we have had enough of their SHIT and are voting no confidence for either of their anointed "choices".

Anyone but O-bomb-a or McSame.

For the love of random bits of molecular matter, yongrel's right, we're all on the same side here!!!

driller80545
06-23-2008, 11:08 PM
I am going to write it right on the damn diebold machine for the next guy.

Joseph Hart
06-23-2008, 11:16 PM
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd129/Organjic/wakeup.jpg

Anti Federalist
06-23-2008, 11:17 PM
I am going to write it right on the damn diebold machine for the next guy.

I'll pay for the magic marker.:eek::D:rolleyes:

purplechoe
06-23-2008, 11:21 PM
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd129/Organjic/wakeup.jpg

There's just one word to describe that pic... AWESOME! :D

Lord Xar
06-24-2008, 03:14 AM
... I think this thread brought out some important things.

We have some work to do. Different factions are fighting over the scraps and some are even kicking those scraps so we are divided further.
There are some very subtle and obvious techniques and tactics used in this thread, and on this board - to really reduce the overall effectiveness of the
Ron Paul Movement.

What I am seeing is that this "libertarian" leaning side are overly negative, and downrigth confrontational & dismissive. Something VERY un-libertarian.

When you suspect, "YOU" as a "ron paul" supporter are labeled as some kook or some conspiracy theorist. But if you notice the third person reference you see where these accusers stand. This board, the Ron Paul republicans are furtile pickings to try to bring into the fold of libertarianism - it is also used to dismantle, and unmotivate us.

I think this board needs to do the following. LINE UP BEHIND THE CAUSE. Which is TAKING BACK THIS COUNTRY - from the special interests elites who will see our freedoms/liberties ground to dust.

Some of you are NOT Ron Paul supporters but here for other reasons. Barr and Baldwin ARE NOT RON PAUL, but each share similiar views in their own ways...

So STOP THIS BELLYACHING and this SPLINTERNG.. and LINE UP BEHIND THE GOTDAYUM CAUSE.