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Ronnie1776
06-19-2008, 02:43 PM
It was a very nice thank you email from Dr. Murray Sabrin (see below). I gave his campaign about $1,500 throughout the process and I was very proud of his efforts and his performance in the debates. He just didn't have enough money to compete against the establishment.

After reading the email, if you feel as I do we need to reward folks who "enter the arena" then help him retire some of his debt: www.MurraySabrin.com.

What a classy guy - thank YOU Dr. Sabrin for running for all of us!

Dear Friend,

Thank you for generously supporting our campaign to Legalize Freedom in America. Although we did not win the nomination, we reached another milepost in our journey to restore our liberties.

For the past five months we traveled throughout New Jersey with the message of limited government--less taxes, less spending—secure borders, stopping the Federal Reserve's manipulation of interest rates that causes the booms and busts in our economy, and withdrawing from Iraq as soon as possible. In short, we told the truth about how Washington's big government experiment has failed--lock, stock and barrel. We also sounded the alarm about the federal government's unfunded liabilities that will crush future generations with monstrous taxes.

And, we also took the lead to end mandated vaccinations so parents could once again be in charge of their children's healthcare.

In seeking the Republican nomination for the U.S. Senate I was the only candidate who had a credible plan to revitalize the economy, end the inflation that is causing prices to go through the roof, and downsize the federal government so we can have a constitutional republic.

By the time the campaign ended we achieved a successful milepost: we outlined how to make America a free society once again as the Founders' intended.

Now it is time to move on and work even harder for the cause of liberty.

Your generosity made this campaign possible, and Florence and I deeply appreciate the support you gave us to spread the Freedom Message in the Garden State.

To jump start the Sabrin for Senate campaign we incurred a debt of $275,000 we had hoped we would have paid off by now.

Today, I am asking you to be generous one more time so we can retire $175,000 by July 31st and the remaining $100,000 by September 30 so we can concentrate our efforts in the months and years ahead to spread the Freedom Message in New Jersey and around the nation.

In August Florence and I will be celebrating our 40th wedding anniversary. Without her support I would never entered the political arena. She has been my biggest supporter. Please make a $40 contribution or a multiple of $40--$80, $120, $160, etc., as a tribute to this extraordinary woman who has been by my side through thick and thin.

Please make the most generous contribution today at www.murraysabrin.com or send your contribution to Sabrin for Senate, c/o Christopher Whalen, CPA, 1075-D Route 34, Matawan, NJ 07747.

Thanks again for your support to restore Liberty in America.

Regards,
Murray

qh4dotcom
06-19-2008, 03:02 PM
E-mail I received today



Thank you for generously supporting our campaign to Legalize Freedom in America. Although we did not win the nomination, we reached another milepost in our journey to restore our liberties.

For the past five months we traveled throughout New Jersey with the message of limited government--less taxes, less spending—secure borders, stopping the Federal Reserve's manipulation of interest rates that causes the booms and busts in our economy, and withdrawing from Iraq as soon as possible. In short, we told the truth about how Washington's big government experiment has failed--lock, stock and barrel. We also sounded the alarm about the federal government's unfunded liabilities that will crush future generations with monstrous taxes.

And, we also took the lead to end mandated vaccinations so parents could once again be in charge of their children's healthcare.

In seeking the Republican nomination for the U.S. Senate I was the only candidate who had a credible plan to revitalize the economy, end the inflation that is causing prices to go through the roof, and downsize the federal government so we can have a constitutional republic.

By the time the campaign ended we achieved a successful milepost: we outlined how to make America a free society once again as the Founders' intended.

Now it is time to move on and work even harder for the cause of liberty.

Your generosity made this campaign possible, and Florence and I deeply appreciate the support you gave us to spread the Freedom Message in the Garden State.

To jump start the Sabrin for Senate campaign we incurred a debt of $275,000 we had hoped we would have paid off by now.

Today, I am asking you to be generous one more time so we can retire $175,000 by July 31st and the remaining $100,000 by September 30 so we can concentrate our efforts in the months and years ahead to spread the Freedom Message in New Jersey and around the nation.

In August Florence and I will be celebrating our 40th wedding anniversary. Without her support I would never entered the political arena. She has been my biggest supporter. Please make a $40 contribution or a multiple of $40--$80, $120, $160, etc., as a tribute to this extraordinary woman who has been by my side through thick and thin.

Please make the most generous contribution today at www.murraysabrin.com or send your contribution to Sabrin for Senate, c/o Christopher Whalen, CPA, 1075-D Route 34, Matawan, NJ 07747.

Thanks again for your support to restore Liberty in America.

Regards,
Murray

aspiringconstitutionalist
06-19-2008, 03:08 PM
Don't want to sound ungrateful for the great work Murray did, but... Why did he go into debt in the first place?

Maybe I've just been spoiled with having been part of the immaculately principled debt-free Ron Paul campaign.

Jeremy
06-19-2008, 03:11 PM
A lot of candidates do in fact go into debt

Like the last Republican in BJ Lawson's district... maybe that's why he didn't run again

aspiringconstitutionalist
06-19-2008, 03:12 PM
A lot of candidates do in fact go into debt

Like the last Republican in BJ Lawson's district... maybe that's why he didn't run again

But why a candidate like Murray, who ran on balanced budgets, honest money, and whose biggest criticism of Dick Zimmer was that Zimmer was not a true fiscal conservative?

asgardshill
06-19-2008, 03:13 PM
Don't want to sound ungrateful for the great work Murray did, but... Why did he go into debt in the first place?

Excellent point. And for a mere primary.

Still, I hope he can make up the shortfall - debt sucks.

FireofLiberty
06-19-2008, 03:14 PM
I feel obligated to point out that BJ poured $50,000 of his own money into his campaign and he has a real chance.

amy31416
06-19-2008, 03:15 PM
Excellent point. And not even for a national race.

Still, I hope he can make up the shortfall - debt sucks.

I hope he can as well, but he's an economy professor for crying out loud. He should have known better.

I like the guy and supported him, but he made some poor decisions.

amy31416
06-19-2008, 03:16 PM
I feel obligated to point out that BJ poured $50,000 of his own money into his campaign and he has a real chance.

Woah. Was that 50k that he had or did he have to borrow it?

Jeremy
06-19-2008, 03:16 PM
But why a candidate like Murray, who ran on balanced budgets, honest money, and whose biggest criticism of Dick Zimmer was that Zimmer was not a true fiscal conservative?

Well it's just a campaign =p

But I think the debt is from his campaign borrowing from HIS money... so that sucks I guess. But Zimmer did the same exact thing. (and maybe he'll do it even more in the general... at least Murray won't have to waste more in the general, which seems like it's impossible to win even if you're a RP Republican)

qh4dotcom
06-19-2008, 03:18 PM
I hope he can as well, but he's an economy professor for crying out loud. He should have known better.

I like the guy and supported him, but he made some poor decisions.

The hiring of his campaign manager and all those weird e-mails he sent out was one of those poor decisions you mentioned.

I remember how all his e-mails said

"Dr. "Maverick Murray" Sabrin is a successful entrepreneur working in commercial real estate, portfolio management, and economic research".

Hmmm...a successful entrepreneur asking for donations....doesn't sound right...his own success should take care of the debt

yongrel
06-19-2008, 03:22 PM
Looks like someone is going to declare bankruptcy.

asgardshill
06-19-2008, 03:30 PM
I hope he can as well, but he's an economy professor for crying out loud. He should have known better.

I like the guy and supported him, but he made some poor decisions.

And the sad thing is that if Sabrin decides to run for major public office again, his next opponent will have all the ammunition he needs to score major hits on Sabrin's fiscal conservatism cred. Yes, I can just hear it now: "My opponent, this so-called 'fiscal conservative', was reduced to sending begging emails back in 2008 to retire A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT from his last race. FOR A PIDDLY-ASSED LITTLE SENATE RACE! And you want to entrust the American people's pocketbook to HIM?"

Embarrassing to say the least.

amy31416
06-19-2008, 03:34 PM
And the sad thing is that if Sabrin decides to run for major public office again, his next opponent will have all the ammunition he needs to score major hits on Sabrin's fiscal conservatism cred. Yes, I can just hear it now: "My opponent, this so-called 'fiscal conservative', was reduced to sending begging emails back in 2008 to retire A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT from his last race. FOR A PIDDLY-ASSED LITTLE SENATE RACE! And you want to entrust the American people's pocketbook to HIM?"

Embarrassing to say the least.

Embarrassing and likely ineffective. I certainly won't be helping him out of debt, he shouldn't have gone that route in the first place.

Not to say I don't feel some sympathy--he was enthusiastic and aggressive, but he wasn't conservative, that's for sure.

Jeremy
06-19-2008, 03:35 PM
And the sad thing is that if Sabrin decides to run for major public office again, his next opponent will have all the ammunition he needs to score major hits on Sabrin's fiscal conservatism cred. Yes, I can just hear it now: "My opponent, this so-called 'fiscal conservative', was reduced to sending begging emails back in 2008 to retire A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS IN DEBT from his last race. FOR A PIDDLY-ASSED LITTLE SENATE RACE! And you want to entrust the American people's pocketbook to HIM?"

Embarrassing to say the least.

Not exactly. Murray raised the most money out of all three candidates. However, Dick Zimmer had the most money because he funded like half a mil or something from himself while Murray did much less (as you can see). And Zimmer will keep going up to November and will be in HUGE debt. So compared to Zimmer's upcoming problem (considering he can't win)... Murray's isn't that bad.

On Sabrin though, if he ever runs again it better be for something much smaller. Senate... Governor... too high up too fast! At least Murray has some better name recognition now... not total waste.

haaaylee
06-19-2008, 03:36 PM
yeah i couldnt help but think he isn't that much like ron paul after all...

Jeremy
06-19-2008, 03:37 PM
yeah i couldnt help but think he isn't that much like ron paul after all...

don't be hatin' D:

asgardshill
06-19-2008, 03:40 PM
On Sabrin though, if he ever runs again it better be for something much smaller. Senate... Governor... too high up too fast! At least Murray has some better name recognition now... not total waste.

QFT. Considering what the mascot of the Republican Party is, I guess it would be ironic to note that you don't eat an elephant all in one bite.

LibertyEagle
06-19-2008, 03:40 PM
Excellent point. And not even for a national race.



What are you talking about? He was running for U.S. Senator, right?

asgardshill
06-19-2008, 03:41 PM
What are you talking about? He was running for U.S. Senator, right?

It was a primary race, not the one where the winner actually got The Big Chair. That's what I meant.

The statement was misleading though. I've edited appropriately.

LibertyEagle
06-19-2008, 03:42 PM
Not to say I don't feel some sympathy--he was enthusiastic and aggressive, but he wasn't conservative, that's for sure.

What are you talking about? He sounded conservative to me. What did I miss? :confused:

MRoCkEd
06-19-2008, 03:42 PM
/\conservative with campaign money

Murray for congress!!

LibertyEagle
06-19-2008, 03:43 PM
It was a primary race, not the one where the winner actually got The Big Chair. That's what I meant.

Yeah. Primaries come first. He was still running to be a U.S. Senator. It takes money to do that. Either we face that, or we might as well get out of the game.

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
06-19-2008, 03:43 PM
The hiring of his campaign manager and all those weird e-mails he sent out was one of those poor decisions you mentioned.

I remember how all his e-mails said

"Dr. "Maverick Murray" Sabrin is a successful entrepreneur working in commercial real estate, portfolio management, and economic research".

Hmmm...a successful entrepreneur asking for donations....doesn't sound right...his own success should take care of the debt

Don't forget he was the front-runner, too, from the moment he joined the race until election day.

Wealthy people are always in debt. That's how you play the game and avoid taxes.
Put all your wealth into assets and live off loans, liquidate when needed.

It's a marketing ploy to get you to feel sympathetic.
The email doesn't tell you he's got 5 million in assets.
Boo hoo poor Murray.

CasualApathy
06-19-2008, 03:43 PM
I like Sabrin, but he shouldn't have gone into debt. If you want to run as a "Ron Paul Republican" it just isn't enough simply to adobt the rethoric, you have to be principled in your actions as well.

And don't come begging afterwards and expect the grassroots to pay the bill.

LibertyEagle
06-19-2008, 03:47 PM
Hmmm...a successful entrepreneur asking for donations....doesn't sound right...his own success should take care of the debt

WHAT? Ron Paul didn't pay for his campaign.

Ok guys, what's the deal with this? Are you expecting people who run to pay for their own campaigns, out of their own pockets? Or, is this some kind of jealousy thing of people who have worked hard, been successful and saved money and you expect them to spend it all on their campaign, before asking for donations?

I don't get it.

If what I said above is correct, we shouldn't be holding our breaths to have many come along and want to run for office, other than those who now are, who are doing so to get access to the seemingly endless trough of government money.

asgardshill
06-19-2008, 03:47 PM
Yeah. Primaries come first. He was still running to be a U.S. Senator. It takes money to do that. Either we face that, or we might as well get out of the game.

Perhaps Sabrin should have taken lessons from Ron Paul in campaign financial management. There's a vast difference in being five million in the black and over a quarter of a million in the red.

amy31416
06-19-2008, 03:50 PM
What are you talking about? He sounded conservative to me. What did I miss? :confused:

Conservative in what he said, certainly. I don't consider it conservative to go into debt over a political run though.

I'm not a hater, I donated to him several times.

amy31416
06-19-2008, 03:52 PM
WHAT? Ron Paul didn't pay for his campaign.

Ok guys, what's the deal with this? Are you expecting people who run to pay for their own campaigns, out of their own pockets? Or, is this some kind of jealousy thing of people who have worked hard, been successful and saved money and you expect them to spend it all on their campaign, before asking for donations?

I don't get it.

If what I said above is correct, we shouldn't be holding our breaths to have many come along and want to run for office, other than those who now are, who are doing so to get access to the seemingly endless trough of government money.

I think you're taking this the wrong way--Ron Paul could have gone into debt during his campaign, but he chose to walk the walk. An econ professor running as an RP Republican really should not have gone into debt, it's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with supporting or not supporting RP Republicans.

CasualApathy
06-19-2008, 03:55 PM
WHAT? Ron Paul didn't pay for his campaign.

Ok guys, what's the deal with this? Are you expecting people who run to pay for their own campaigns, out of their own pockets? Or, is this some kind of jealousy thing of people who have worked hard, been successful and saved money and you expect them to spend it all on their campaign, before asking for donations?

I don't get it.

Well, I for one dont think candidates should run on their own money, but i think they should limit themselves to the amount of donations they recieve, and not go into debt expecting the grassroots to continue giving donations after the race is over.

LibertyEagle
06-19-2008, 03:56 PM
Conservative in what he said, certainly. I don't consider it conservative to go into debt over a political run though.

I'm not a hater, I donated to him several times.

I understand. Sorry if I misunderstood earlier. :o

Crickett
06-19-2008, 03:56 PM
Conservative in what he said, certainly. I don't consider it conservative to go into debt over a political run though.

I'm not a hater, I donated to him several times.

I did too..and I thought he had raised a bunch of money. I was very surprised to get that email. I really thought Murray had a chance. He was great in the debates, and said a lot of things that I wanted represented in Washington. I have a hard time understanding all this...

yaz
06-19-2008, 04:00 PM
Don't forget he was the front-runner, too, from the moment he joined the race until election day.

Wealthy people are always in debt. That's how you play the game and avoid taxes.
Put all your wealth into assets and live off loans, liquidate when needed.

It's a marketing ploy to get you to feel sympathetic.
The email doesn't tell you he's got 5 million in assets.
Boo hoo poor Murray.

Actually he just lied-- plain and simple. He was never the front-runner he just told everyone that without any proof. A poll came out putting him in last place and guess where he placed?

Jeremy
06-19-2008, 04:02 PM
Let's just put this behind us and focus on the candidates like B.J. Lawson who have won their primary and who have active campaigns. Moneybomb on the 29th people! Help us promote it. =) (see my sig)

asgardshill
06-19-2008, 04:05 PM
WHAT? Ron Paul didn't pay for his campaign.

But we did and/or helped make it possible. And some of us tried to help Sabrin financially as well. But the elephant in the room is that Ron Paul is five million in the black while Murray Sabrin is over a quarter of a million in the red.

The grassroots can't be expected to pony up unlimited campaign money to every liberty-minded candidate who asks for it - we've got bills to pay too and must prioritize just as you must prioritize the mix of necessities and luxuries you write checks to pay for at home.

Should I have given more money to Murray Sabrin? Sure - that's a legitimate argument. Should I be attacked for not doing so now and/or not realizing that he was going so deeply into debt? No - that's NOT a legitimate argument.


Ok guys, what's the deal with this? Are you expecting people who run to pay for their own campaigns, out of their own pockets? Or, is this some kind of jealousy thing of people who have worked hard, been successful and saved money and you expect them to spend it all on their campaign, before asking for donations?

No, its not a "jealousy thing", LibertyEagle. I'm not jealous of people who are over a quarter of a million dollars in debt. On the contrary, my heart cries for them because being in debt sucks. But to twist my motives for asking questions and making observations when somebody asks for even more money into my somehow being jealous of or uncaring about them is in truth a pretty reprehensible thing to do.

qh4dotcom
06-19-2008, 04:26 PM
WHAT? Ron Paul didn't pay for his campaign.

Ok guys, what's the deal with this? Are you expecting people who run to pay for their own campaigns, out of their own pockets? Or, is this some kind of jealousy thing of people who have worked hard, been successful and saved money and you expect them to spend it all on their campaign, before asking for donations?

I don't get it.

If what I said above is correct, we shouldn't be holding our breaths to have many come along and want to run for office, other than those who now are, who are doing so to get access to the seemingly endless trough of government money.

Should be a combination of both...personal funds and donations...yes, you're right...a candidate shouldn't have to spend ALL his money on a campaign...but some of it yes...and all donated money should be spent wisely...and never ask for donations to retire campaign debt...that's something Ron Paul would have never done.

Funny thing, Ron Paul's opponent Chris Peden is doing the same thing as Murray...asking people on his website for donations to help him retire campaign debt.

I'm not jealous, I also donated to him several times.

asgardshill
06-19-2008, 04:27 PM
Funny thing, Ron Paul's opponent Chris Peden is doing the same thing as Murray...asking people on his website for donations to help him retire $150,000 in debt.

Any claim that Chris Peden has ever made to being a "fiscal conservative" is laughable. Peden is an idiot but certainly no fiscal conservative.

pappy
06-19-2008, 04:54 PM
WHAT? Ron Paul didn't pay for his campaign.

Ok guys, what's the deal with this? Are you expecting people who run to pay for their own campaigns, out of their own pockets? Or, is this some kind of jealousy thing of people who have worked hard, been successful and saved money and you expect them to spend it all on their campaign, before asking for donations?

I don't get it.

If what I said above is correct, we shouldn't be holding our breaths to have many come along and want to run for office, other than those who now are, who are doing so to get access to the seemingly endless trough of government money.

No I don't expect them to pay it out of their own pockets. I do expect them to pay for it out of their own pockets+out of donations.

But he should have run on the money he had and not built up debt. He should not expect his donors to pay for his fiscal irresponsibility. People gave him the money they wanted him to have and he spent more than that. Tough! Pay the debt yourself.

If I gave him five dollars and he spent ten, I don't want him coming to ask me to make up the other five. If I wanted him to have ten I would have given him ten. If I wanted him to have ten, but only had five I would not have borrowed the other five to give to him (because I dont believe in borrowing--didn't feel that way long ago, but have seen the light in the last 15-20 years).

He ran as a fiscal conservative, but didn't run his campaign as such (for whatever reason -- I don't care). If I give him the other five to pay the debt he incurred I am tacitly approving his borrowing to win (win at all costs). I would not do this and even though that may make many others mad. I feel this is dishonest on his part. This is a case of him not walking the walk in my opinion.

I don't hate him for it. Neither do I blame him for trying. I just don't think its right for him to ask donors to make up the difference.

That being said, if supporters want to help him out, I have no problem with that. I just think its uncouth to ask--- especially considering the platform he ran on.

pappy

rodo1776
06-19-2008, 05:08 PM
I bet Murray wishes he had not placed that $20,000 bet on the longshot in the Kentucky Derby!

LibertyEagle
06-19-2008, 05:13 PM
No, its not a "jealousy thing", LibertyEagle. I'm not jealous of people who are over a quarter of a million dollars in debt. On the contrary, my heart cries for them because being in debt sucks. But to twist my motives for asking questions and making observations when somebody asks for even more money into my somehow being jealous of or uncaring about them is in truth a pretty reprehensible thing to do.

I asked a question. If you think the answer is no where you're concerned, that's great. But, I fail to see why it's reprehensible to ask the question.

asgardshill
06-19-2008, 05:15 PM
I asked a question. If you think the answer is no where you're concerned, that's great. But, I fail to see why it's reprehensible to ask the question.

The insinuation that I am being anal/wrong/overly critical for asking questions and making observations was the reprehensible part to me.

LibertyEagle
06-19-2008, 05:17 PM
If you want to be offended, that is your choice. It was not my intention however.

asgardshill
06-19-2008, 05:20 PM
If you want to be offended, that is your choice. It was not my intention however.

OK, I'll accept that.

Group hug? :D

WRellim
06-19-2008, 05:22 PM
I think it comes down to TWO simple things:

1) Primary Candidates are willing to go into debt when and if they THINK they are going to win (i.e. they start to believe their own press release "spin") -- they assume the "flood" of money that will come in once they are in the general election phase can easily pay off their primary phase debts. (cf John McCain's campaign for an example where this actually worked out that way.)

2) In Sabrin's case, I think he assumed that with the RP donor mailing list he was going to receive significantly MORE money from around the country than he did. (I got his mailings, but then looked at what was ACTUALLY happening in his race and determined he didn't have a snowball's chance... so I saved my money to donate to other candidates that I either REALLY believe in, or whom I think stand a realistic chance -- add to that the philosophical belief that candidates should draw MOST of their donations from their own states or districts, and you have a recipe for thr RP donor list being must LESS valuable than candidates may delude themselves into thinking. This is true for ALL such "lists," not just RP's).

Long and short of it is that just like ANY loan for a business or other "gambit" Murray Sabrin CHOSE to assume the liability for the debt. There is nothing inherently wrong for him to send the "begging" letter (although it DOES make him look irresponsible and provides substantial evidence that he is poor at both BUDGETING and managing money), but he should know that ultimately he is responsible for that debt; and no aspersions should be cast on anyone NOT willing to send money.

Jeremy
06-19-2008, 05:22 PM
Any claim that Chris Peden has ever made to being a "fiscal conservative" is laughable. Peden is an idiot but certainly no fiscal conservative.

If that's true, I think that is good news... because doesn't mean that he can't run his campaign again?

LibertyEagle
06-19-2008, 05:22 PM
OK, I'll accept that.

Group hug? :D

:)

WRellim
06-19-2008, 05:23 PM
I asked a question. If you think the answer is no where you're concerned, that's great. But, I fail to see why it's reprehensible to ask the question.


I think that you're simply insulting people because you disagree with them.

LibertyEagle
06-19-2008, 05:25 PM
I wonder if it was the case that he had to buy the advertising quite a bit in advance and he took a chance that the donations would come in? Unfortunately, they didn't. :(

What I don't understand is him repeatedly saying that he was the front-runner.

LibertyEagle
06-19-2008, 05:26 PM
I think that you're simply insulting people because you disagree with them.

:rolleyes:

Back again to spread some more cheer?

Tarzan
06-19-2008, 05:27 PM
Let's just put this behind us and focus on the candidates like B.J. Lawson who have won their primary and who have active campaigns. Moneybomb on the 29th people! Help us promote it. =) (see my sig)

I regret Murray and his campaign ran up a debt... but that was their planning and their decision. Sometimes you have to take risks but all the evidence demonstrates that deficit spending by this effort was unwise.

As for us; we should not throw "good money after bad"... we need to focus on winning for this movement. I think stormcommander has it right and any money to pay off Murray's debts should instead go to Lawson.

Lawson for Congress Money Bomb (http://www.lawsonlibertyfund.com/)

asgardshill
06-19-2008, 05:28 PM
If that's true, I think that is good news... because doesn't mean that he can't run his campaign again?

I wouldn't think so. He'll certainly be able to raise money for a second run at Ron Paul - even deluded fools have some disposable income and there is a growing number of the elite who would very much like to see Ron Paul on the street and out of the House.

WRellim
06-19-2008, 05:33 PM
:rolleyes:

Back again to spread some more cheer?



Just like you do. :p

WRellim
06-19-2008, 05:36 PM
I wonder if it was the case that he had to buy the advertising quite a bit in advance and he took a chance that the donations would come in? Unfortunately, they didn't. :(

What I don't understand is him repeatedly saying that he was the front-runner.


What's hard to understand. He lied (or possibly was so deluded that he believed his own PR).

Or in "Beltway terminology" he "exaggerated, stretched, and spun the truth a little bit."

Happens every day in politics, and especially with elections... with just about every candidate.

Welcome to the real world.

Cowlesy
06-19-2008, 05:41 PM
It appears Murray lent his campaign $275,000 to prime the engine. He's a smart gentleman, and I am sure he was well aware of the risk he was taking in doing so. Just to be clear, it appears his campaign has a debt, which he can forgive the campaign for if he so chooses, not a liability on Murray's balance sheet, but actually an asset in the form of a loan (though clearly a non-performing one).

Frankly, I didn't agree with every campaign move they did, and that's why I wasn't running his campaign :) But I think people would have a tough time arguing Murray didn't give it everything he had --- putting $275,000 of skin down and then spending all of it and the donations takes someone who can stomach a hell of a lot of risk.

You may be wise to consider that after taking out that loan from himself, and seeing donations trickle in probably much slower than anticipated, Murray could have just sat on those campaign donations and then used them to retire the debt I believe.

If Murray borrowed himself to provide his campaign a loan, that's fiscal irresponsibility. If he loaned his own assets to his campaign, and the campaign didn't pan out..that is purely taking a risk and coming out on the wrong side.

Murray isn't demanding anyone pony up more loot. He is simply making an appeal. One which you can choose to accept, or not accept.

I'm proud of him and his campaign, and I wish him the best for the future!

aspiringconstitutionalist
06-19-2008, 06:01 PM
I vote we petition JP Morgan to bail out the Sabrin campaign. Murray's too big to fail. :)

MsDoodahs
06-19-2008, 07:38 PM
I vote we petition JP Morgan to bail out the Sabrin campaign. Murray's too big to fail. :)

HA!

Entire thread worth the read just to get to that comment!

:D

james1844
06-19-2008, 07:55 PM
Woah. Was that 50k that he had or did he have to borrow it?

I suspect that BJ is a self made millionaire, so its probably not debt.

By they way: did you know that BJ is having a money bomb?

Check it out:

ttp://www.lawsonlibertyfund.com/

SnappleLlama
06-20-2008, 07:04 AM
What the---he's using his wife as a reason to donate?? Am I missing something, here?

amy31416
06-20-2008, 10:20 AM
I suspect that BJ is a self made millionaire, so its probably not debt.

By they way: did you know that BJ is having a money bomb?

Check it out:

ttp://www.lawsonlibertyfund.com/

Yep. I'm signed up to donate. :)

FireofLiberty
06-20-2008, 12:48 PM
What the---he's using his wife as a reason to donate?? Am I missing something, here?

Wasn't his idea...

But what's wrong with that? There was a money bomb on Ron Paul and Carol's anniversary?

SnappleLlama
06-20-2008, 12:49 PM
Wasn't his idea...

But what's wrong with that? There was a money bomb on Ron Paul and Carol's anniversary?

Oh, yeah? Shows how much I know!! :)

qh4dotcom
06-22-2008, 04:55 PM
Bump