So, what do you think of CFL so far?

[Ian A.]

Curious of the feedback about the new Campaign.

Personally I really like the face lift. The Ron Paul team seems to be far more active and upbeat now. They blog a HELLUVA lot more often which is great. They don't have the proverbial stick up their rear when it comes to saying what they feel. Most importantly, they are connecting with the grassroots efforts more directly. I also like how he's in the news more now.

[Kalifornia]

they havent done anything yet for me to base an opinion on.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

they havent done anything yet for me to base an opinion on.

+1

[rajibo]

I am happy that Daniel McCarthy will be blogging with them again. He's good.

[speciallyblend]

I have hope:) so give it time;) plus it's up to us to make the gop realize their errors,if we want Ron Paul to be our republican nominee, we have more work to do ,so let's get to it, the fat lady doesn't sing until convention, IT'S FAR FROM OVER:)

[NightOwl]

they havent done anything yet for me to base an opinion on.

Right. This is why we need to give them a chance. The full C4L has not yet been unveiled; the Beta website is to hold us over. I have a very good feeling about it, especially with the addition of Dan McCarthy, one of the competent ones from the campaign.

[Tarzan]

Curious of the feedback about the new Campaign.

Personally I really like the face lift. The Ron Paul team seems to be far more active and upbeat now. They blog a HELLUVA lot more often which is great. They don't have the proverbial stick up their rear when it comes to saying what they feel. Most importantly, they are connecting with the grassroots efforts more directly. I also like how he's in the news more now.

They are doing this "movement" yet another disservice... here are a few thoughts off the top of my head.


They are using the same people who gave us the failures of the *official campaign*.
They are pretending to be a grassroots driven effort yet they have started this site with no consideration to REAL grassroots efforts already in place.
They have offered NO support or even a mention of efforts already in progress such as the "March on DC", The GOP delegates, taking back the GOP, and on and on.
They have effectively disabled current efforts by coming in and rolling over them like a freight train. The current CFL is more of a distraction at this point because of lack of planning, foresight or sensitivity to current efforts.
They have offered nothing but a few vague ideas taken from elsewhere.
They continue to set this movement behind by promising much and delivering nothing. They say it will take "the next few months" to get any real plans or leadership in place.
They have provided nothing approaching a plan of action that we have needed since the movement began.
They registered the site on May 30th... less than three weeks ago.
They have not made their legal setup clear… and this is essential before beginning to conduct business or accept contributions.
They hastily slapped together a website that has as its primary feature a DONATE button.
They have had MONTHS to plan the "next phase of the revolution" and this poorly conceived and executed effort is what they have provided.


I have high hopes for this idea as it may be our last hope to establish a genuine movement with a real chance of saving our government and America. But I have little confidence success based on the current materials, inappropriate timing and general lack of planning... or, any plan at all.

At this point; success does not appear to be a high probability. We will probably see a repeat of the results of the *official campaign*. So, the entire staff needs to be replaced, the direction of this effort needs to come from the grassroots, we need to hire professionals capable of performing the necessary tasks, we need leadership of the CFL to be more along the lines of a Board of Directors selected by the grassroots.

We need something that really works this time... not the losing performance we have seen from the previous efforts... WE (the grassroots) need to guide the direction and goals of the CFL in a representative (as in a republic) format.

We have demonstrated that we can do more with less and those who have successfully led the grassroots should be put in oversight positions of the CFL... NOW, before it is too late.

[Deborah K]

Tarzan, they did mention the march: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog/?p=42#comments

[DeadtoSin]

No offense Tarzan, but I think that you may not be the most unbiased person to make a decision about it. I came in here after I saw your post expecting something just like what you said, because you guys are doing the Freedom's Ground thing.

I am not criticizing, just calling it like I see it..

[slacker921]

Did they fix the site so the McCain and Obama supporters aren't spamming it? It was sitting wide open for me to jam names and e-mail address gathered via a web spider.. so the 56,000 number may or may not be valid. ?

Who have they brought in to run the show, advertise, etc? Some people with new ideas and new energy?

Are they going to help candidates like Lawson now (rather than starting in September when it's too late)?

[Tarzan]

Tarzan, they did mention the march: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog/?p=42#comments

And that mention was just posted today... in a blog post… rather like ending up in section B page 27 of the newspaper… hardly the kind of support and endorsement they should be providing.

You know where I stand on the March idea (enough said)... you should be getting front page support for your event. Instead, the CFL will be drawing down your March support, donations and attendance as many supporters make plans to attend the St. Paul event(s) in lieu of the March... not a happy situation.

To give you folks such little consideration after all the work you have done is inexcusable. If anything, Ron Paul should be supporting the DC March with a major effort and endorsement… especially now that he is no longer a candidate. Instead, you have been treated like the proverbial step-child.

The CFL announcement could have easily waited another two weeks to allow your event to fully coalesce. As it is, they may have done your event irreparable damage.

You may not want to say so publically… but you should be more than a little ticked!
Well... at least I would be... sounds like you are a better person.

[Tarzan]

No offense Tarzan, but I think that you may not be the most unbiased person to make a decision about it. I came in here after I saw your post expecting something just like what you said, because you guys are doing the Freedom's Ground thing.

I am not criticizing, just calling it like I see it..

For the sake of accuracy *I* am not doing the Freedom's Ground thing. That effort is being led by Katharine Memole (the Blimp Coordinator). Yes, I am providing what help I can but I am also providing assistance to several congressional candidates as well... and, another internet effort too.

I do have an emotional investment in all of these efforts and want them to succeed. Am I unbiased... NO! I want the constitution restored and I will do what I can to help any genuine effort to do so. We have to get real about our efforts and the results. If someone has a good plan count me in. But, take a good look at CFL and you will see there are NO plans other than to wait... for several more months.

Take *me* out of the equation and consider the history of this movement and the efforts and results of the people put into leadership positions. Then take a good look at what CFL is offering and their time line. We need to be accomplishing things NOW. CFL could be a great thing but they have NO plans and are promising things(???) for MONTHS in the future. Our country and our economy are in a crisis and we do not have time to wait.

There is no excuse for "putting the movement on hold" as CFL is now doing. As another poster mentioned we need to be supporting candidates (such as BJ Lawson) NOW... when it matters... when we can still make a difference. Instead, we are being asked to wait for months until CFL can get it's act together.

This is a disasterous misdirection of our efforts... CFL should have hit the ground running... they have had MONTHS to plan and their only plan is to wait.

just telling you how I see it... :)

[New York For Paul]

And that mention was just posted today... in a blog post… rather like ending up in section B page 27 of the newspaper… hardly the kind of support and endorsement they should be providing.

You know where I stand on the March idea (enough said)... you should be getting front page support for your event. Instead, the CFL will be drawing down your March support, donations and attendance as many supporters make plans to attend the St. Paul event(s) in lieu of the March... not a happy situation.

To give you folks such little consideration after all the work you have done is inexcusable. If anything, Ron Paul should be supporting the DC March with a major effort and endorsement… especially now that he is no longer a candidate. Instead, you have been treated like the proverbial step-child.

The CFL announcement could have easily waited another two weeks to allow your event to fully coalesce. As it is, they may have done your event irreparable damage.

You may not want to say so publically… but you should be more than a little ticked!
Well... at least I would be... sounds like you are a better person.

Good points.

Two weeks ago the money situation was looking bad.

I am not sure who is running the CFL. I would distinguish between the senior campaign and the mid level campaign and the jr. level campaign staff.

There were probably some very competent people who had to follow orders from higher up that were not allowed to really do well.

What a distraction, to have Ron Paul end his campaign just days before the revolution march money bomb. On the day of the money bomb, multiple emails from different groups were going out competing for attention.

On the other hand, at least the march will take place, the speakers will be good etc. Ron Paul will be there speaking so it will be excellent.

[Mckarnin]

No offense Tarzan, but I think that you may not be the most unbiased person to make a decision about it. I came in here after I saw your post expecting something just like what you said, because you guys are doing the Freedom's Ground thing.

I am not criticizing, just calling it like I see it..

Tarzan has helped out quite a bit with Freedom's Ground but no one (him included) is making money on it or anything along those lines.

If there are any sour grapes between FG and CFL it is because when I saw no strong future focus coming from the campaign I started work on Freedom's Ground (at the end of January). We incorporated Freedom's Ground in Pennsylvania as a 501 (c)(4) in March and had our first real fundraiser in April. I discussed Freedom's Ground in great detail with 2 individuals directly associated with the campaign and in a bit of detail with yet another campaign associate, primarily in March and April. I sent them links, had multiple hour-long phone conversations answering questions and providing details, etc... trying to work with them and help get something going for the future. After stating that they were unsure which direction they were going to take and then starting to move in other directions they suddenly appeared just a few days ago with the CFL and some of the most well articulated goals they are touting appear to be close, if not direct copies of ideas I discussed with them that they were not interested in pursuing.

Maybe these ideas came to them recently and they don't remember anything from my website, justin.tv or our phone conversations. Perhaps they forgot where the ideas came from and thought they thought them up...I don't know. It just doesn't feel quite right. People who have been backing my efforts are frustrated for me and I appreciate it.

Some of these may seem like a stretch but I think you can understand how I might be upset;

From CFL's site: "Encouraging the formation of discussion groups and book clubs at the local level to help people learn more about our ideas."

I discussed Freedom's Ground's "Local Charter Groups" in great detail and explained how members would read and discuss books to engage them in continuous education and would invite locals to attend so they can learn about our ideas and also to form strong local networks. These groups would also host educational events just for neophytes.

CFL:"Establishing a speakers bureau to give presentations around the country about the great principles we champion."

Now this idea is pretty obvious and they could have certainly come up with it on their own but still, they didn't have interest in it when I mentioned it months ago...I discussed Freedom's Ground's plan to have experts and leaders in our movement sign on with the organization and give presentations nationally of information scaled in such a way that even those new to the movement could understand.

CFL:"Gaining a foothold in political life at every level of government by expanding our precinct leader program."

I only discussed this with one of the individuals affiliated with the campaign in detail (but it did also appear in one of my justin.tv spots that are archived and has 100 recent views) but I explained how Freedom's Ground planned to use the precinct system to assign territories to our members so that they could get to know people in their communities and invite them to attend meetings, participate in educational events and to build rapport and strong community to help strengthen the movement.


CFL: "Developing materials for homeschooling families, to help them educate their children in history, sound economics, and related fields."

This just constitutes a side idea for Freedom's Ground but I discussed creating an educational program for children that would initially be marketed to homeschoolers but might eventually get into the public/private schools if we at FG were careful to be non-partisan and not bash individuals.




On our incorporation document states that Freedom's Ground was instituted as a 501(c)(4) for the purpose of "...advocating a Constitution based government directly to the American people and empowering the electorate through education."


I am a pretty nice gal and tend to think the best of people but this has been really rough for me.

Katharine

[huckans]

Katherine,

I'm sorry that it appears like CFL has copied some of your ideas. But, remember, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Also, there's no reason why you couldn't work with CFL on the areas of overlap. We're all in this together!

[Mckarnin]

Katherine,

I'm sorry that it appears like CFL has copied some of your ideas. But, remember, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Also, there's no reason why you couldn't work with CFL on the areas of overlap. We're all in this together!

Imitation may be but copying ideas verbatim is intellectual theft (if that's what they did). I offered to work with them repeatedly. They don't want me, just my ideas. And honestly, unless they really bring some good people on and show a change in direction from the campaign I don't want to put my eggs in that basket. I want to work for the future of this movement. I did amazing work on the blimp. I love this movement and the people in it. I want to perform work I can be proud of.

I also think that having the educational organization and the advocacy organization linked and closely affiliated is a bad strategic move and will really limit our expansion as will Ron Paul's name.

[amy31416]

Imitation may be but copying ideas verbatim is intellectual theft (if that's what they did). I offered to work with them repeatedly. They don't want me, just my ideas. And honestly, unless they really bring some good people on and show a change in direction from the campaign I don't want to put my eggs in that basket. I want to work for the future of this movement. I did amazing work on the blimp. I love this movement and the people in it.

I also think that having the educational organization and the advocacy organization linked and closely affiliated is a bad strategic move and will really limit our expansion as will Ron Paul's name.

You managed to get Goldwater, Jr., and they aren't interested in working with you?

That's pretty dumb of them.

[Mckarnin]

You managed to get Goldwater, Jr., and they aren't interested in working with you?

That's pretty dumb of them.

My hour long spiel worked better with him... :p

[amy31416]

My hour long spiel worked better with him... :p

Heh, apparently. CFL is working with BTM, but not with you guys. That just doesn't make any sense to me. Is it about name recognition?

[asgardshill]

A blog and a Donate button (which doesn't even take PayPal) aren't exactly compelling content to me. Lets just say that I hope they've got a long way to go and that they start actually going there soon.

[New York For Paul]

Who is running CFL?

[Mckarnin]

Heh, apparently. CFL is working with BTM, but not with you guys. That just doesn't make any sense to me. Is it about name recognition?

Could be. I am somewhat introverted and stayed at home during the blimp project so I have little major recognition except for a quotes about the blimp in articles and an article on me locally here in Pittsburgh. Everyone who has dealt with me seems to respect me but no fame. :) I don't want it but a little name recognition sure would help Freedom's Ground.

Katharine

[Mckarnin]

There may be secondary people but the leader appears to be Jeff Frazee. He was the National Youth Coordinator for the Ron Paul 2008 Campaign.

Jeff is the gentleman with blond hair and orange and brown striped tie.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1114/1116987689_0d19e9d2fc.jpg?v=0


Who is running CFL?

[RideTheDirt]

Katharine,
I am sorry to hear that you feel like you are not getting enough recognition from the campaign. It sounds like you have put in a lot of effort and time into this Revolution. I would first like to thank you for everything you have done for the campaign. Second I would like to remind you that this is not about Ron Paul.

We must keep spreading the message and continue doing anything within our means to save our country. If we give up now, you WILL be forgotten.We all will.We will fail. If we fight, it will NOT be said that we did nothing.If we FIGHT and WIN we will be remembered as true patriots. Patriots are not forgotten.

[H Roark]

RonPaul2008.com should re-direct to the CFL website or at least have a banner linking to it!

[Mckarnin]

Thanks for the kind and inspiring remarks! Honestly I am embarrassed by recognition. I just want to be respected for my integrity and sow freedom in people's minds on a very large scale. I have been trying to come out of my shell a bit to do it.

I am continuing my work with Freedom's Ground and not giving up. The CFL was just a bit of a shocker after my unsuccessful attempts to get something like that going in conjunction with the campaign for months.

Now I feel like I am going to have to go outside of the R[evol]ution to get most of the support for Freedom's Ground and I had really hoped that many members of the movement would be a strong initial presence in the organization.






Katharine,
I am sorry to hear that you feel like you are not getting enough recognition from the campaign. It sounds like you have put in a lot of effort and time into this Revolution. I would first like to thank you for everything you have done for the campaign. Second I would like to remind you that this is not about Ron Paul.

We must keep spreading the message and continue doing anything within our means to save our country. If we give up now, you WILL be forgotten.We all will.We will fail. If we fight, it will NOT be said that we did nothing.If we FIGHT and WIN we will be remembered as true patriots. Patriots are not forgotten.

[pacelli]

Did they fix the site so the McCain and Obama supporters aren't spamming it? It was sitting wide open for me to jam names and e-mail address gathered via a web spider.. so the 56,000 number may or may not be valid. ?

Who have they brought in to run the show, advertise, etc? Some people with new ideas and new energy?

Are they going to help candidates like Lawson now (rather than starting in September when it's too late)?

I hope so. I emailed them last night about one of the Lawson moneybombs this June 29 (12th wedding anniversary for the Lawsons), so I'll post here if/when I receive a response. BJ needs it before July, so if they are going to back it, they're going to have to move fast to put up a post about it.

[Knightskye]

I like it. And I'm glad they got Dan McCarthy back on the blogging team.

[Tarzan]

Katharine,
I am sorry to hear that you feel like you are not getting enough recognition from the campaign. It sounds like you have put in a lot of effort and time into this Revolution. I would first like to thank you for everything you have done for the campaign. Second I would like to remind you that this is not about Ron Paul.

We must keep spreading the message and continue doing anything within our means to save our country. If we give up now, you WILL be forgotten.We all will.We will fail. If we fight, it will NOT be said that we did nothing.If we FIGHT and WIN we will be remembered as true patriots. Patriots are not forgotten.

I cannot speak for Katharine... but, I suspect she would be in favor of any properly conceived and executed plan to restore a constitutional government... regardless of her recognition. (though recognition is often a nice thing :)).

The larger issue is that we need to have something that will work to achieve the goal of restoring the constitution to our government. We need proper planning, leadership, organization and direction. The CFL is not providing any of that... just a few rough ideas, a donate button and even more time waiting.

To me the point is that we need something with a high probability of success. That means proper planning and execution... where is the CFL business plan, objectives and any real strategy? They do not appear to exist.

If we are going to "FIGHT and WIN" we need realistic and achievable goals and planning to win. Based on what we have seen from the *official campaign*, the current level of thought and planning and the people leading the CFL effort we will have a repeat of those disappointing past results.

We cannot afford to just go out and "FIGHT"... we need to do some realistic logistical and strategic planning and then properly implement if we are going to "WIN". We need to get serious about this and do the work necessary to achieve our objectives. We need to take a good hard look at CFL and determine how WE can take charge and make it and make it a vehicle capable of taking us into the FIGHT that we can WIN.

[Tarzan]

I hope so. I emailed them last night about one of the Lawson moneybombs this June 29 (12th wedding anniversary for the Lawsons), so I'll post here if/when I receive a response. BJ needs it before July, so if they are going to back it, they're going to have to move fast to put up a post about it.

This is exactly the sort of thing on which we need to be focused... getting Lawson into office. CFL should either be supporting this effort or not causing a diversion of resources at this critical time. In my estimation Lawson is our most capable and viable "RP Clone" and we desperately need to get him elected.

We are running out of time and CFL launched without any consideration of how to help or how they were "steam rolling" other efforts. Anyone who can should consider donating to Lawson!!!

Lawson for Congress (http://www.lawsonforcongress.com/)
.

[Printo]

It seems like a lot of people are pissed about CFL overshadowing their current grassroots efforts but I feel that CFL is a good thing. Having a head to this movement monster is important because I think a lot of people are lost without it. It is also nice having this under control of the main man Dr. Paul himself. I mean look how divided we are with just who we are voting for since he hasn't endorsed anyone, we are all over the board. We are a powerful voting block this election & can make a big difference but without our leader, it seems we are scatterbrained and not on the same page in a lot of ways. CFL can only help the cause. Thats my 2 cents.

[RideTheDirt]

I cannot speak for Katharine... but, I suspect she would be in favor of any properly conceived and executed plan to restore a constitutional government... regardless of her recognition. (though recognition is often a nice thing :)).

The larger issue is that we need to have something that will work to achieve the goal of restoring the constitution to our government. We need proper planning, leadership, organization and direction. The CFL is not providing any of that... just a few rough ideas, a donate button and even more time waiting.

To me the point is that we need something with a high probability of success. That means proper planning and execution... where is the CFL business plan, objectives and any real strategy? They do not appear to exist.

If we are going to "FIGHT and WIN" we need realistic and achievable goals and planning to win. Based on what we have seen from the *official campaign*, the current level of thought and planning and the people leading the CFL effort we will have a repeat of those disappointing past results.

We cannot afford to just go out and "FIGHT"... we need to do some realistic logistical and strategic planning and then properly implement if we are going to "WIN". We need to get serious about this and do the work necessary to achieve our objectives. We need to take a good hard look at CFL and determine how WE can take charge and make it and make it a vehicle capable of taking us into the FIGHT that we can WIN.Sorry I just don't feel that I need Ron to hold my hand every step of the way. If you give a man a fish he will come back for another.If you teach a man to fish then he does not need you anymore, and will fish on his own.

[durden0]

A lot of ill will towards the CFL here...

We're all on the same side. As someone pointed out the CFL website has only been registered for 3 weeks! Give them a chance to get rolling.

While they are getting their fires stoked over at CFL, by all means people should be continuing their efforts; remember while your methods may be different, your goals are the same. The great thing about free market is, if your ideas or strategies are better, you will persevere and have lasting power over others.

The net effect of the CFL, and all the other grass roots efforts to educate people will be a net positive.

[nayjevin]

McKarnin, anyone following closely believes in you strongly.

Organizations of people are SO difficult. Try to get two org's to gel, it's even tougher.

I feel for ya, but I have no doubt you will be on top of the game to the extent where your choice of direction and effort will move us only forward.

[WRellim]

Guess I'll throw in my two cents (which probably no one wants, but what the heck.)

I think a lot of these efforts (FL, FG, etc) are well intentioned, but are ALL unimpressive, seem rather unprofessional, and currently contain no "content" of value -- in short they all seem to be "stalled" ...and headed nowhere ...slowly.

While Katherine has explained online HERE in RPF that Freedom's Ground is a 501(c)(4) educational corporation, and I have no doubt that she has done the behind the scenes legal work -- yet the website doesn't mention this fact. Sure, there is an "About" page, but it does NOT mention the legal status of the site's ownership, and likewise the "Founding Board" lists one name (Barry Goldwater, Jr.) and the "Advisory Committee" lists two people. To be frank, this just looks "weird" to me and raises alarm bells. You can't have a board of directors that has just one person on it (espec. when it is a "celebrity name" which means unlikely to be involved with REAL oversight), and an advisory committee is ...well meaningless unless there is something to "advise" about.

Same criticism applies to CFL. Other than the Blog, a bunch of vague bloviating on the "Mission" page (most of which would require several SEPARATE legal entities, and as Katherine says is a grab-bag of ideas taken from elsewhere) and -- as Tarzan says the big DONATE button... well there is NOTHING of substance there. NO ONE (not even Ron Paul) seems to know what the LEGAL status of the organization will be (beyond the video INTERVIEW answer of "well, yeah, sometime type of PAC, probably").

To be honest with you folks, at this point in time Trevor's "penny stock" gambit with BreakTheMatrix was the most straight-forward and OPEN about what it was... and therefore looks the LEAST like a scam of the whole bunch. (Although I would certainly fault BTM as well for NOT making the ownership/legal structure clear on their website.

Come on people, it's a STATIC web page we are taking about... ala MoveOn (http://www.moveon.org/about.html) or YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/t/about) and if you've DONE the actual legal groundwork, there is ZERO excuse to not state this information clearly, openly, and proudly. {The ONLY reasons my mind can come up with for NOT stating it clearly and openly are that 1) the legal groundwork has NOT yet been done; 2) it is still "in process" of being done; or 3) It's done, but you're too lazy/incompetent to get the info up. ALL three of those are reasons for wise people to NOT sign-up and to NOT donate, as they are examples of unprofessional conduct; and using the tag "Beta" does not excuse it.}

As far as any actual VALUE -- only BTM seems to have any content that a single precocious 16 year old couldn't have created by himself in a night or two's worth of work.

At least BTM has begun developing a "social community" with their forums, and provided a mechanism for people from that social community to help them begin getting some content up.


And I am NOT trying to be a shill for BTM -- I'm not a member of it and don't have ANY participation on there; my awareness of it is based on people I know who actually ARE on there, using the forums, adding files & articles, etc.


Now sometimes, I wonder if the whole "point" of the CFL gig (and the campaign's indifference to your ideas and effort Kath) isn't to "delay" progress ON PURPOSE -- in order to NOT have an organized effort this fall election season (and therefore NOT be seen as "spoilers" of the McCain campaign).

But that is probably being too much of a "conspiracy theorist" and a much MORE likely explanation for CFL's current inactivity is simple incompetence... much like the RPPCC.


Side Note to Katherine: I don't see your effort as being incompetent -- but truth of the matter is that since there is no NEW or frequently updated content on your site (not even a "News" blog/page?) -- meaning no reason for people to keep coming back to the website again and again -- it is unlikely that it will be a "success" (why donoate if no content is being actively developed? why return to look at the same pages? All of which talk about what "will" be done in some vague "future" by this organization which does not yet seem to exist.) Seriously, if you are waiting on sufficient funds to come in, it is unlikely to happen on THIS the "downward" slope of the movement's scattering phase. (While I don' t consider the CFL blog to be of much "value" in actual moving the "movement" forward, at least it draws returning visits, as does the counter-thing, and doubtless with RP's name attached, they'll be getting sufficient cash inflow as well -- which sadly also reduces the cash available to other efforts like your own; whether they will accomplish anything with that cash is another unanswered question.)


That's my two cents. Because until I see something with some solid groundwork, and some substance for content (even a START, some EXAMPLE of the coming "educational" content -- 1 educational video {even rough} or 1 educational flyer or SOMETHING???) -- until then it's all just "pie-in-the-sky" and I'm not going to recommend or promote ANY of these things to the people in my meetups, nor to the nearby meetup leaders I have been working with. (Which means they are all "wondering" and "wandering" -- but that's life).

[Joseph Hart]

I trust Ron Paul, just like I trusted him in Congress all these years. Though I will keep an open mind to any new direction, until then I support this new effort 100%. This Campaign for Liberty made me a Prouder American.

[WRellim]

I trust Ron Paul, just like I trusted him in Congress all these years. Though I will keep an open mind to any new direction, until then I support this new effort 100%. This Campaign for Liberty made me a Prouder American.


So... it's basically "All hail King Ron Paul."
:confused:

IMHO, a bunch of people suspending their judgment and openly following any one man (whether trustworthy or not) -- and therefore throwing their support behind a bunch of OTHER people (whom they do not know at all) -- is NOT the path to a more Constitutional government; especially when the "trusted man" seems (from his history) to exercise minimal or zero oversight on the people he has turned his affairs over to.

[libertarian4321]

Well, I like the idea of having a CFL rally/Ronstock/Ron Paul Convention on September 2nd- I'll be there for sure- should be a good time as well as a chance to demonstrate for our agenda and against the neocons.

However, they need to improve some things- for example, they just added the Washington March, and have no mention of the Minnesota rally.

And to whoever mentioned it before, the Ronpaul2008.com website should certainly link to the CFL site.

This thing just started, so I'll give them a little time before I go haywire with complaints.

[newbitech]

Campaign For Liberty is a great way for Ron Paul to connect with the grassroots. I see CPL has the hub for all of these activities. I love what BTM is doing because it addresses the core issue of how to get the message out to millions. No other effort including the official RP campaign has the design to do this. BTM is the fast track IMO. Thats where the action is going to be. I agree though we need to see more local organizations.

BTM is talking about creating its own version of Meetup. This is the next step IMO. Especially here in FL where we are so spread out. We (I) need to learn how to recognize each other without the internet because pretty soon, the internet is going to be seriously regulated. You think its hard to get content and traffic now? Wait until the corps start controlling the bandwidth. Your website that you run from home or from your laptop with your own funds or meager donations will never be able to handle the traffic of converting millions and millions of sheeple.

Not to discourage anyone, but I really believe we are too distracted by websites. We (I) need some direction on how I can get REAL face to face interest. I like the idea of developing precinct leaders to do this, but where is the material? I need this yesterday!

I can keep going around and spreading what I believe to be the right message which is:

1.) pull your money out of banks
2.) stock up food, water, weapons, and meds
3.) start making an evacuation plan and learning where the safe places are

You get my point.

[libertarian4321]

Side Note to Katherine:[/B] I don't see your effort as being incompetent -- but truth of the matter is that since there is no NEW or frequently updated content on your site (not even a "News" blog/page?) -- meaning no reason for people to keep coming back to the website again and again [/I]

There is a blog/news page that has been updated 12 times in the last 2 days.

C'mon people, relax, its been in existence less than a week- what, exactly, were you expecting- world change?

Take your Ritalin and settle down and give it a little time.

[newbitech]

you know, what really seems to fire a lot of people up when I talk to them is the American Revolution. I don't have to even really mention Ron Paul when I talk about it either. Why aren't we doing more stuff like they did back in the Revolution? I mean that worked, can it be that simple? Whats the one thing that Ron Paul supporters have in common with most of our fellow countrymen? We need to build that bridge.

[libertarian4321]

you know, what really seems to fire a lot of people up when I talk to them is the American Revolution. I don't have to even really mention Ron Paul when I talk about it either. Why aren't we doing more stuff like they did back in the Revolution?

Because King George is dead?

Oh wait, no he's not, he's in the White House, but he'll be gone soon...

[WRellim]

There is a blog/news page that has been updated 12 times in the last 2 days.

C'mon people, relax, its been in existence less than a week- what, exactly, were you expecting- world change?

Take your Ritalin and settle down and give it a little time.

I was referring to KATHERINE's "Freedom's Ground" website not having a blog/news page.


As for the CFL Blog... meh... doesn't impress me... it's just the "Daily Dose" thing moved onto a new website... Oooooh, I'm impressed, look (yet another) BLOG...

[WRellim]

you know, what really seems to fire a lot of people up when I talk to them is the American Revolution. I don't have to even really mention Ron Paul when I talk about it either. Why aren't we doing more stuff like they did back in the Revolution? I mean that worked, can it be that simple? Whats the one thing that Ron Paul supporters have in common with most of our fellow countrymen? We need to build that bridge.

You wanna start dumping Tea and shooting at people wearing red jackets?
:confused:

If you think it will help...

Though I haven't seen many big crates of Tea around lately, and people wearing red jackets are pretty few and far between (and once we start will probably become even hard to find... cause no one will wear red then) ...and I'm not sure I understand how we get from there to step 3 and the profit part.
:D

[libertarian4321]

You wanna start dumping Tea and shooting at people wearing red jackets?
:confused:

If you think it will help...

Though I haven't seen many big crates of Tea around lately, and people wearing red jackets are pretty few and far between (and once we start will probably become even hard to find... cause no one will wear red then) ...and I'm not sure I understand how we get from there to step 3 and the profit part.
:D

Let me know before you guys start this thing, I've got a red jacket...

[newbitech]

You wanna start dumping Tea and shooting at people wearing red jackets?
:confused:

If you think it will help...

Though I haven't seen many big crates of Tea around lately, and people wearing red jackets are pretty few and far between (and once we start will probably become even hard to find... cause no one will wear red then) ...and I'm not sure I understand how we get from there to step 3 and the profit part.
:D

no, but there is something missing in this revolution. I am merely suggesting that these sheeple who are voting are just as pissed off as we are. they just lack organization. hell we can't seem to get ourselves organized and we call this a revolution?

why not go back and look at history and see what worked? what are some of the things the founders did to organize?

[nayjevin]

no, but there is something missing in this revolution. I am merely suggesting that these sheeple who are voting are just as pissed off as we are. they just lack organization. hell we can't seem to get ourselves organized and we call this a revolution?

I hope you're not getting this opinion from these forums alone -- forums don't tend to feel very 'organized,' and I'd say that's particularly true of political forums.


why not go back and look at history and see what worked? what are some of the things the founders did to organize?

I love this idea. Martin Luther's a good example of taking it into one's own hands.

[newbitech]

I hope you're not getting this opinion from these forums alone -- forums don't tend to feel very 'organized,' and I'd say that's particularly true of political forums.



I love this idea. Martin Luther's a good example of taking it into one's own hands.

on the first part, no I get that because on my block, in my neighborhood and district, the people are pissed and you can just feel that something bad is coming. BUT, trying to convince people to vote republican after Bush... eeekk. I tried so many angles, but the one that had the most success was the idea of revolution. It is so easy to draw parallels to the problems we had then and the problems we face today.

If we could start doing the things that the founders did, the actual things like committees of correspondence for example, then we wouldn't have to go around preaching gloom and doom. We could say look, America is a great country and history does repeat itself! We have this problem with money today just like we did back then. And just like back then, we are forming a committee of correspondence to DO SOMETHING about it. We need you to be a part of it! Thats at the local level. Then those committees can take action on a state level, then the state committees can take action on national level.

Basically, re-form (not reform) but rebuild the government from the ground up, just like we did it in 1776. Thats what we need.

[WRellim]

no, but there is something missing in this revolution. I am merely suggesting that these sheeple who are voting are just as pissed off as we are. they just lack organization. hell we can't seem to get ourselves organized and we call this a revolution?

why not go back and look at history and see what worked? what are some of the things the founders did to organize?

Well, they set up "committees of correspondence" (aka meetups) in the individual states and starting sending letters back and forth (forums) along with exchanging books and articles on various topics (YouTubes & PDF's).
:D

I know the previous post was joking... I'm actually WITH you on this -- the Nov 5th thing worked because people liked the "anarchy" message of the whole "Guy Fawkes/V for Vendetta" thing... and the Tea Party was a wonderful "marketing" concept.





Consider, *IF* the campaign had any "marketing geniuses" -- and RP had been "willing" -- then they could have taken the whole "American Revolution" RETRO thing to a HUGELY higher level... RP could have appeared at debate and/or campaigned at townhall meetings in a powdered wig...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/26/Man_of_The_Year_%282006_film%29.jpg/200px-Man_of_The_Year_%282006_film%29.jpg

Yeah it would have been a "stunt" -- but a stunt with a purpose!

It *WOULD* have gotten news play -- how could it NOT. And yeah, the media would probably have focused on the entire "wacko" bit by doing so... BUT it would have DEFUSED IT at the exact same time -- because he could REALLY have emphasized an association with George Washington & the wisdom of the founding fathers, the Constitution, etc.

Just the sheer GALL of him doing something like that -- ON A NATIONAL STAGE level... People would have eaten it up.


Damn shame it was just a movie (and not a very good one at that).

[newbitech]

Well, they set up "committees of correspondence" (aka meetups) in the individual states and starting sending letters back and forth (forums) along with exchanging books and articles on various topics (YouTubes & PDF's).
:D


the rest of what you said was brilliant, but I wanted to focus on this. First some background. ht.tp://themoderatevoice.com/media/internet/20405/curbing-use-of-the-internet-you-bad-greedy-broadband-width-eating-monster-you/ (http://themoderatevoice.com/media/internet/20405/curbing-use-of-the-internet-you-bad-greedy-broadband-width-eating-monster-you/)
the part that relates to everything you said above is,


The Internet “is how we deliver our shows,” said Jim Louderback, chief executive of Revision3, a three-year-old media company that runs what it calls a television network on the Web. “If all of a sudden our viewers are worried about some sort of a broadband cap, they may think twice about downloading or watching our shows.”

That being said, while the things you mentioned are comparable, committees of correspondence are what turned in to the Congress and our government of, for , and by the people. Furthermore, committees of correspondence were by invitation only and since the internet is a wide open forum, we get outsiders come in and screw it up. If we keep the primary organization in a public venue, then you can be assured our enemies will always be one step ahead of us.

[WRellim]

Deleted... double post somehow.

[WRellim]

the rest of what you said was brilliant, but I wanted to focus on this. First some background. ht.tp://themoderatevoice.com/media/internet/20405/curbing-use-of-the-internet-you-bad-greedy-broadband-width-eating-monster-you/ (http://themoderatevoice.com/media/internet/20405/curbing-use-of-the-internet-you-bad-greedy-broadband-width-eating-monster-you/)
the part that relates to everything you said above is,



That being said, while the things you mentioned are comparable, committees of correspondence are what turned in to the Congress and our government of, for , and by the people. Furthermore, committees of correspondence were by invitation only and since the internet is a wide open forum, we get outsiders come in and screw it up. If we keep the primary organization in a public venue, then you can be assured our enemies will always be one step ahead of us.

Yeah, but the "Committees of Correspondance" were actually typically not simply "by invitation" but were themselves COMMITTEES that were subsets of the various local EXISTING legislatures (houses of burgesses, and so on) -- so they in many ways already WERE the government of the colonies... all they "threw out" were the royally appointed governors -- and they had the advantage of being several thousand miles distant -- across an ocean traveled only by slow sailing ships -- from their former "king." Plus they had a whole continent of "wilderness" that they could retreat to.

We're not trying to "overthrow" anything... but rather to REFORM and RETURN the existing system to it's core functions... an altogether different thing.


BUT, I do appreciate some of your points -- that TOO much of our "communication" has been far too public and disorganized... while I appreciated that it was not "centralized" it also suffered BECAUSE it was so de-centralized that it had too much "interference" from "hecklers" etc (and complete LACK of any possible coordination with the campaign... they were (and are) so darned scared of any possible violation of the FEC regs! IMHO, Better to do like other campaigns and bend those rules a bit.

We did try to do some of the "private" communication -- inside of meta-meetups, (leaders only weekly conf. calls, etc.) But without the cooperation of the campaign (to whom most of our money went) we were left w/o a candidate (hard to promote a "ghost"), or any "events," or anywhere near sufficient resources to implement any truly GOOD ideas on a local level.

By contrast, the HUCKABEE people -- with only 3 tiny meetups, and a state ad budget of less than $150K -- WON two of our state's congressional districts! But of course THEIR CANDIDATE actually coordinated events with those local meetups, did some "official advertising" and then (the gall of the man) Huckabee actually set foot in the state for a few days to do some events & local TV interviews!

When I think of the campaign our meetups COULD have "waged" in our state -- if we'd have had a budget of JUST HALF the amount that the RPPCC raised from our state alone... we could have done AMAZING ads and stuff.

As it was we managed a bunch of digital billboards, newspaper ads (MoCS etc), DVD distros, etc... and all on a couple of "shoestrings" -- because we'd already, trustingly and STUPIDLY sent 99% of our cash to Arlington... where they did shit-all of nothing with it! (Sorry, the incompetence and intransigence of the RPPCC still makes me GAG every time I think of it... hence my reticence to give even ONE dime to "CFL" until I see some structure, a few friggin resume's, and some results!)




Oh, and as far as what happens if they start "throttling" the internet to the point that small companies and small websites "die" -- well if they do, there will either be a HUGE uprising ... or there won't. Ain't S all we can do about it one way or another. If they DO start throttling and clamping down on the whole thing... then our ENTIRE economy goes down the drain... BIG TIME... and we end up as a 2nd tier nation in the coming decades (the rest of the world ALREADY outpaces us with broadband... if the US's answer is to NOT expand our bandwidth, but instead LIMIT access... then the game is over... for a while.)

[SteveMartin]

Jeff Frazee is still "IT", so far?

The other boot to drop is finding out the rest of the "leadership" of this new setup.

Can't wait....Will tell us a lot....

[WRellim]

Jeff Frazee is still "IT", so far?

The other boot to drop is finding out the rest of the "leadership" of this new setup.

Can't wait....Will tell us a lot....


Yeah, but don't hold your breath.

Something tells me we have (at least) a month (or more) worth of nothing but inane blog posts ahead, because it seems to be the main emphasis right now, getting "bloggers" lined up... that way they can give the illusion of doing things in absence of anything more real (pretty much what they did with RPPCC with the Daily Dose... quieted the natives down with a bunch of mindless rehashed blog posts to take their minds off the lack of advertising or events or other campaign activities {or would that be inactivities}... it worked once, so why not again?)

[qwerty]

OMFG.

THE CAMPAIGN HAS BEEN AROUND ONLY FEW DAYS AND YOU TALK LIKE WE SHOULD HAVE ALLREADY CHANGED THE AMERICA IN THOSE FEW DAYS.

GIVE IT TIME.....FIRST, PEOPLE MUST KNOW ABOUT THE MESSAGE BEFORE THEY CAN AGREE WITH IT...

AND WE MUST SPREAD THE WORD AND RON IS ALSO SPREADING THE WORD IN EVERY INTERVIEW!






:cool:

[qwerty]

PEOPLE, DON´T FEED THE TROLLS, TRUST ON RON!


:cool:

[SnappleLlama]

*falls backwards*

[WRellim]

OMFG.

We understand you're having a temper tantrum because your nappy is all wet.

Now go away little boy.

The adults were having an adult conversation.

[qwerty]

We understand you're having a temper tantrum because your nappy is all wet.

Now go away little boy.

The adults were having an adult conversation.

Sorry, i happen to trust on Ron, not on a kid who calls himself as adult in internet....


:rolleyes:

[Truth Warrior]

What IS the CFL, really? :confused:

[WRellim]

What IS the CFL, really? :confused:

No one seems to know. (And if you DARE to ask... you get an "infraction" as Liberty Eagle does NOT like people asking questions).

I'm beginning to think that (at least currently) it doesn't even exist in legal form yet.

[Truth Warrior]

No one seems to know. (And if you DARE to ask... you get an "infraction" as Liberty Eagle does NOT like people asking questions).

I'm beginning to think that (at least currently) it doesn't even exist in legal form yet.
Thanks for the info AND the "heads up". ;)

Any resemblance to Agent Smith is purely coincidental. :D

[LibertyEagle]

No one seems to know. (And if you DARE to ask... you get an "infraction" as Liberty Eagle does NOT like people asking questions).

I'm beginning to think that (at least currently) it doesn't even exist in legal form yet.

LOL. No, you're quite free to ask questions. But since you bring it up, it's the guideline against insulting forum members that I would suggest you watch more closely. :) And as you know, said infraction occurred due to your comments in a different thread from this one.

[crazyfingers]

I hope they intend to launch whatever they are planning well before 9/2/08. I'm concerned that any remaining enthusiasm will dry up if the site stays "beta" all the way until then.

Anyway, whoever is in charge of this should be an experienced professional. Rewarding people for their loyalty is fine and all, but past proven results must take precedence in the hiring process.

[qwerty]

What IS the CFL, really? :confused:

http://campaignforliberty.com/

[LibertyEagle]

Anyway, whoever is in charge of this should be an experienced professional. Rewarding people for their loyalty is fine and all, but past proven results must take precedence in the hiring process.

I think that's the idea. My understanding is that they are looking for the right CEO now.

[WRellim]

LOL. No, you're quite free to ask questions. It's the guideline against insulting forum members that I would suggest you watch more closely. :) And as you know, said infraction occurred due to your comments in a different thread from this one.


Actually, LE, the only insult in that thread was from Debbie to me.

Did you give her an infraction?


Because in practice, you seem hand them out ONLY on a basis of whether you LIKE the statement the person made or not.


BTW, did you hand out an infraction to qwerty yet? He has been most insulting on this and several other threads, and the posts in ALL CAPS and the largest possible type size are certainly annoying, and likewise problematic with the user guidelines. Did that result in an infraction?

[MsDoodahs]

What do I think of CFL so far?

It's GREAT and I can't WAIT to see how it is developed.

:)

[LibertyEagle]

WRellim,

Infractions are private. Please read the forum guidelines.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=22

Thank You. :)

[WRellim]

LOL. No, you're quite free to ask questions. But since you bring it up, it's the guideline against insulting forum members that I would suggest you watch more closely. :) And as you know, said infraction occurred due to your comments in a different thread from this one.


WRellim,

Infractions are private. Please read the forum guidelines.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=22

Thank You. :)


Well then YOU just violated the guidelines didn't you?

You publicly GLOATED about giving me an infraction "in a different thread from this one."

Didn't you?

But somehow I sincerely DOUBT that you will receive an infraction for doing that, now will you?

[SnappleLlama]

This thread has jumped the shark. Now, where's that Fonzie picture...?

[LibertyEagle]

Well then YOU just violated the guidelines didn't you?

You publicly GLOATED about giving me an infraction "in a different thread from this one."

Didn't you?

But somehow I sincerely DOUBT that you will receive an infraction for doing that, now will you?

YOU brought up the fact that you received an infraction. Not I.

Thanks. :)


Originally Posted by WRellim
No one seems to know. (And if you DARE to ask... you get an "infraction" as Liberty Eagle does NOT like people asking questions).

[SnappleLlama]

Ah, yes...

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/3708/jumpthesharkvt8.jpg

[Mckarnin]

Your input is solid and I appreciate it. You are right, our website at Freedom's Ground looks like a ghost town and I do not have recent updates up. I let the site lag a bit because I was working to find a web team to doll it up. I think I'm going to work for us to get to a stage 2 site that will really be very functional until it is time for the "official" site release.

I am very shy about making promises that I am not 100% sure that Freedom's Ground can keep. I like to show results but am now realizing that behind the scenes work and achievements mean nothing to supporters if they don't get news of it.

What has hindered Freedom's Ground is the difficulty I have encountered thus far in the search for Freedom's Ground team members...people who can lay partisanship aside during their work on FG, people who do not look down on those who are not yet "in the know" regarding the freedom movement, people who are willing to put aside their promotion of frightening theories or even truths in favor of gently leading new people into our movement, people who act with honor and have a strong ethical framework, people who are capable in their field of expertise. I know that is a demanding list but if this is going to be done right I think it's needed. I have encountered many people who would have happily put their name behind us who would not have done the organization any credit and likely damage. Perhaps I need to just put a blunt "help wanted" on the forums and see who replies. :)

K

Just to clarify the "founding board" was for the purpose of guiding the first steps of the organization. Now that we are incorporated an actual Board of Directors is just a few weeks out and will be working towards 9 members. The non-profit lawyer and I have been working with oversight from Bradley Smith so we are, as you thought, taking the legal aspects quite seriously. We expect to do an amazing job and if we make enemies I don't want them taking FG down over stupid legal mistakes.



Guess I'll throw in my two cents (which probably no one wants, but what the heck.)

I think a lot of these efforts (FL, FG, etc) are well intentioned, but are ALL unimpressive, seem rather unprofessional, and currently contain no "content" of value -- in short they all seem to be "stalled" ...and headed nowhere ...slowly.

While Katherine has explained online HERE in RPF that Freedom's Ground is a 501(c)(4) educational corporation, and I have no doubt that she has done the behind the scenes legal work -- yet the website doesn't mention this fact. Sure, there is an "About" page, but it does NOT mention the legal status of the site's ownership, and likewise the "Founding Board" lists one name (Barry Goldwater, Jr.) and the "Advisory Committee" lists two people. To be frank, this just looks "weird" to me and raises alarm bells. You can't have a board of directors that has just one person on it (espec. when it is a "celebrity name" which means unlikely to be involved with REAL oversight), and an advisory committee is ...well meaningless unless there is something to "advise" about.

Same criticism applies to CFL. Other than the Blog, a bunch of vague bloviating on the "Mission" page (most of which would require several SEPARATE legal entities, and as Katherine says is a grab-bag of ideas taken from elsewhere) and -- as Tarzan says the big DONATE button... well there is NOTHING of substance there. NO ONE (not even Ron Paul) seems to know what the LEGAL status of the organization will be (beyond the video INTERVIEW answer of "well, yeah, sometime type of PAC, probably").

To be honest with you folks, at this point in time Trevor's "penny stock" gambit with BreakTheMatrix was the most straight-forward and OPEN about what it was... and therefore looks the LEAST like a scam of the whole bunch. (Although I would certainly fault BTM as well for NOT making the ownership/legal structure clear on their website.

Come on people, it's a STATIC web page we are taking about... ala MoveOn (http://www.moveon.org/about.html) or YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/t/about) and if you've DONE the actual legal groundwork, there is ZERO excuse to not state this information clearly, openly, and proudly. {The ONLY reasons my mind can come up with for NOT stating it clearly and openly are that 1) the legal groundwork has NOT yet been done; 2) it is still "in process" of being done; or 3) It's done, but you're too lazy/incompetent to get the info up. ALL three of those are reasons for wise people to NOT sign-up and to NOT donate, as they are examples of unprofessional conduct; and using the tag "Beta" does not excuse it.}

As far as any actual VALUE -- only BTM seems to have any content that a single precocious 16 year old couldn't have created by himself in a night or two's worth of work.

At least BTM has begun developing a "social community" with their forums, and provided a mechanism for people from that social community to help them begin getting some content up.


And I am NOT trying to be a shill for BTM -- I'm not a member of it and don't have ANY participation on there; my awareness of it is based on people I know who actually ARE on there, using the forums, adding files & articles, etc.


Now sometimes, I wonder if the whole "point" of the CFL gig (and the campaign's indifference to your ideas and effort Kath) isn't to "delay" progress ON PURPOSE -- in order to NOT have an organized effort this fall election season (and therefore NOT be seen as "spoilers" of the McCain campaign).

But that is probably being too much of a "conspiracy theorist" and a much MORE likely explanation for CFL's current inactivity is simple incompetence... much like the RPPCC.


Side Note to Katherine: I don't see your effort as being incompetent -- but truth of the matter is that since there is no NEW or frequently updated content on your site (not even a "News" blog/page?) -- meaning no reason for people to keep coming back to the website again and again -- it is unlikely that it will be a "success" (why donoate if no content is being actively developed? why return to look at the same pages? All of which talk about what "will" be done in some vague "future" by this organization which does not yet seem to exist.) Seriously, if you are waiting on sufficient funds to come in, it is unlikely to happen on THIS the "downward" slope of the movement's scattering phase. (While I don' t consider the CFL blog to be of much "value" in actual moving the "movement" forward, at least it draws returning visits, as does the counter-thing, and doubtless with RP's name attached, they'll be getting sufficient cash inflow as well -- which sadly also reduces the cash available to other efforts like your own; whether they will accomplish anything with that cash is another unanswered question.)


That's my two cents. Because until I see something with some solid groundwork, and some substance for content (even a START, some EXAMPLE of the coming "educational" content -- 1 educational video {even rough} or 1 educational flyer or SOMETHING???) -- until then it's all just "pie-in-the-sky" and I'm not going to recommend or promote ANY of these things to the people in my meetups, nor to the nearby meetup leaders I have been working with. (Which means they are all "wondering" and "wandering" -- but that's life).

[Bossobass]

I really wish that Stevie Wonder, Tarzan and whomever the fuck else would launch a campaign of their own with the superior website, bionic board of directors, Mensa staff, Madison Avenue PR team, etc., so that we all could come here and rip it to shreds for the POS that it would quickly become.

Dissing my favorite females is not allowed. It's in the Constitution somewhere. Look it up.

McK, MsD and LE should be on the board of directors of CFL. I will donate double my current monthly commitment the minute that happens.

Aravoth should be head of production for the vid of the week and all advertising. LordX, Razmear, just a few people who kick ass and get the job done well with several more available for his staff should do nicely and avoid the 'that ad isn't cool' bullshit.

Steve Martin should begin to put his talents toward blogging and retire as the chief finger pointer/gossip queen. There are countless targets to expose in this shithole of a government and RP's staff is at the bottom of the list. I want all the dirt and constant updates on the failure of government. I DO NOT want to hear about why backing Ron Paul is a dumb idea in 20 blogs (threads) a day. Steve has pahlenty of would-be investigative bloggers to choose from for his staff.

Llepard should be on the ethics, fundraising and personnel committees. He's the epitome of integrity and his talents and excellent qualities are also wasted in complaining after the fact. I'd make no suggestions for his staff because I implicitly trust his own judgement.

Josh should have absolute control of the CFL Forums. PERIOD.

I've thrown together a few ideas for a CFL logo. I've begun to contact my business associates, GOP candidates for Governor, AG, Lt Governor and state Senate here in NC, friends, neighbors, the Ron Paul Machine (a group of smart, strong young'uns that I whipped together last year who kick ass and take names) and family as a heads up to CFL. I've committed to a monthly donation amount (whether or not everyone here approves). I'm on board.

I hope the point is made here, 'cause I ain't gonna waste any more time explaining it. We have the talent, smarts and numbers to make any effort work. CFL is the current focus. Get yer asses in gear or get the hell off the tracks.

In 2007 we made History. We succeeded "beyond (RP's) wildest dreams". This is the ONLY train to freedom and it's about to leave the station, for better or for worse.

Bosso

[WRellim]

YOU brought up the fact that you received an infraction. Not I.

Thanks. :)

Ah, but I mentioned it only in a GENERAL sense, as a common "garment" without reference to anything in particular.

FACE IT LE, YOU BLATANTLY VIOLATED the guideines in order to GLOAT.

And now you are unable to even admit that simple fact.
That is really a poor show, but I believe that true colors show through.

[SteveMartin]

No response yet from the CFL website to the email I sent the first day the site was up seeking clarification on:

1. Who will be running the effort
2. Who will be controlling the money
3. What legal status the CFL will assume

I'm utterly stunned and amazed!

[Truth Warrior]

No response yet from the CFL website to the email I sent the first day the site was up seeking clarification on:

1. Who will be running the effort
2. Who will be controlling the money
3. What legal status the CFL will assume

I'm utterly stunned and amazed!
Maybe government bureaucrats are running it! :D

[Mckarnin]

No response yet from the CFL website to the email I sent the first day the site was up seeking clarification on:

1. Who will be running the effort
2. Who will be controlling the money
3. What legal status the CFL will assume

I'm utterly stunned and amazed!

I do know the legal status one for sure. As to who is running it, right now Jeff Frazee.

I emailed Jeff F. directly and this was the information I received:

Campaign for Liberty is a 501(c)4. We will also be utilizing Dr. Paul's Liberty PAC (527)

[SnappleLlama]

I do know the legal status one for sure. As to who is running it, right now Jeff Frazee.

I emailed Jeff F. directly and this was the information I received:

Campaign for Liberty is a 501(c)4. We will also be utilizing Dr. Paul's Liberty PAC (527)

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for clearing this up!!! :)

[Mckarnin]

If I am not mistaken the mention of the March is the result of Jeff being emailed and asked how they can neglect to mention the R[evol]ution March when you organized it in direct response to Ron Paul's request. So, not exactly their idea...



Tarzan, they did mention the march: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog/?p=42#comments

[WRellim]

Your input is solid and I appreciate it. You are right, our website at Freedom's Ground looks like a ghost town and I do not have recent updates up. I let the site lag a bit because I was working to find a web team to doll it up. I think I'm going to work for us to get to a stage 2 site that will really be very functional until it is time for the "official" site release.

I am very shy about making promises that I am not 100% sure that Freedom's Ground can keep. I like to show results but am now realizing that behind the scenes work and achievements mean nothing to supporters if they don't get news of it.

What has hindered Freedom's Ground is the difficulty I have encountered thus far in the search for Freedom's Ground team members...people who can lay partisanship aside during their work on FG, people who do not look down on those who are not yet "in the know" regarding the freedom movement, people who are willing to put aside their promotion of frightening theories or even truths in favor of gently leading new people into our movement, people who act with honor and have a strong ethical framework, people who are capable in their field of expertise. I know that is a demanding list but if this is going to be done right I think it's needed. I have encountered many people who would have happily put their name behind us who would not have done the organization any credit and likely damage. Perhaps I need to just put a blunt "help wanted" on the forums and see who replies. :)

K

Just to clarify the "founding board" was for the purpose of guiding the first steps of the organization. Now that we are incorporated an actual Board of Directors is just a few weeks out and will be working towards 9 members. The non-profit lawyer and I have been working with oversight from Bradley Smith so we are, as you thought, taking the legal aspects quite seriously. We expect to do an amazing job and if we make enemies I don't want them taking FG down over stupid legal mistakes.

K, thanks for taking that in the spirit it was intended (as constructive criticism from someone who otherwise knows nothing about your project.)
:)

BTW, the info you just cited above, literally everything in that post, if just worded a bit differently (and posted in a time-delay fashion) would make several EXCELLENT "News" posts on a "blog" page of some type.

And it doesn't need to have a "full-blown" blog mechanism behind it with comments and such -- just a plain-jane html page titled "News" or "Updates" with a series of titled & dated entries on it.

(Look at what they are "satisfied" with as "progress" notes on the CFL blog. It really OUGHT to be funny ...if it weren't a sad reflection of such serious matters.)

Because I think that some proper updates of a SERIOUS effort at a REAL entity -- well in and of itself that would show people who visit that you are taking SOLID steps forward, and it would help them determine whether to donate.

The more CAPABLE people (not merely the "fan-boys" & blogger types, but the serious people who really DO know how to do REAL work creating content, professional educational vids, articles & such) will become more likely to want to participate -- because lets face it most of those people will probably be ignored or otherwise discarded by the CFL thing (just like they were by the RPPCC) -- and will want somewhere ELSE to coordinate their work in a solid way.


BTW, my best wishes to you on this effort... I THOROUGHLY understand and RESPECT the desire to NOT make promises you aren't 100% you can keep. We tried to get something similar going in my state (forwardliberty.net (http://forwardliberty.net/)) -- and there is a LOT of code hidden behind the scenes on that site (even a rough meetup-like "shell" which we could have shown as "Beta" but I refused to open to the public -- not until we had legal work, purpose & structure laid down, else it was all on my private shoulders for liability & such, as I pulled the domain name and it is sitting on my company's server space) -- but sadly, the whole thing fell apart mainly due to inability to obtain "common ground" on goals, structure, etc. (that, and the intro of "SteveParentitis" into our midst).

So anyway, from that (and past 501(c)(4) organizations I've been involved with) I know that it takes a good bit of work to lay the legal and organizational groundwork properly, and even then there is no guarantee of success, you can end up with an empty shell and a equal amount of work on the back-end closing it all down properly (with no thanks from anyone).

P.S. It also DOES kind of irritate me that CFL is now going to "steal the thunder" (and probably majority of the money) from the nascent grassroots efforts like your own that were just starting to sprout. We all *might* just have been better off without the whole CFL thing... maybe a dozen separate small efforts would be worth more than one centralized BIG (Beltway centered) effort ...but I guess only time will tell.

[WRellim]

I do know the legal status one for sure. As to who is running it, right now Jeff Frazee.

I emailed Jeff F. directly and this was the information I received:

Campaign for Liberty is a 501(c)4. We will also be utilizing Dr. Paul's Liberty PAC (527)

Well, regardless, they NEED to be publishing that info on the website.

It is irresponsible and highly unethical for them NOT to do so, especially given that they are soliciting funds so blatantly.

[Truth Warrior]

Well, regardless, they NEED to be publishing that info on the website.

It is irresponsible and highly unethical for them NOT to do so, especially given that they are soliciting funds so blatantly.
AGREED! :D

[SteveMartin]

Anybody know if the Liberty PAC still controlled by Snyder?

[durden0]

I really wish that Stevie Wonder, Tarzan and whomever the fuck else would launch a campaign of their own with the superior website, bionic board of directors, Mensa staff, Madison Avenue PR team, etc., so that we all could come here and rip it to shreds for the POS that it would quickly become.



+1

Honestly, everyones running around acting like this is easy as pie. If it's so easy, go form your own PAC and do all the amazing things you seem to think are possible. If selling liberty is as awesome and easy as you think it is, then you will win the day and the CFL will be looked upon as a failure and you're organization will be celebrated. For now, relax, give it some time and continue your efforts elsewhere.

[WRellim]

+1

Honestly, everyones running around acting like this is easy as pie. If it's so easy, go form your own PAC and do all the amazing things you seem to think are possible. If selling liberty is as awesome and easy as you think it is, then you will win the day and the CFL will be looked upon as a failure and you're organization will be celebrated. For now, relax, give it some time and continue your efforts elsewhere.

Hey, hand me a FRACTION of that $4.7 Million and I'll have a 501(c)(4) and a multi-candidate PAC up and running within two weeks... all legally established.

PLUS we'd have some actual "Example" content ready to download from the intertubes and a schedule of more to come -- long before we "Beta'd" a website to the public and started begging for MORE money.

[Truth Warrior]

+1

Honestly, everyones running around acting like this is easy as pie. If it's so easy, go form your own PAC and do all the amazing things you seem to think are possible. If selling liberty is as awesome and easy as you think it is, then you will win the day and the CFL will be looked upon as a failure and you're organization will be celebrated. For now, relax, give it some time and continue your efforts elsewhere.

Selling the statists, on liberty, is tough as hell. Too much accumulated "brainwash programming" to fight through. :D

[SteveMartin]

durden,

Get your head out of the sand.

What we are trying to do is to avoid a possible replay of what happened with the presidential campaign. Our money was thoroughly squandered by incompetence and worse.

It bordered on malfeasance and theft, IMHO.

Any new organization raising money under the auspices of RP, sure as heck better have qualified, competent, dedicated and patriotic people running it.

Those who have a problem with some of us standing up for the folks who gave money they couldn't afford to give only to have it pissed away is part of the problem and NOT part of the solution of building ANY type of organization that can actually do more harm than good.

If you will allow that an inefficient and poorly run organization taking the limited resources of the real patriots and Constitutionalists and totally wasting it is a potential problem, then we have no problem. If you think that's OK, then you are simply part of the problem.

[micahnelson]

They have four million. They don't need donations right now. I think people should get involved, fund raise on local levels for local projects. If the CFL HQ needs money for X, Y or Z... let them present the plan, the budget, and the goals and let the free market decide.

[qwerty]

They have four million. They don't need donations right now. I think people should get involved, fund raise on local levels for local projects. If the CFL HQ needs money for X, Y or Z... let them present the plan, the budget, and the goals and let the free market decide.

exactly!

give them time, nothing happen in just few days...

[WRellim]

They have four million. They don't need donations right now. I think people should get involved, fund raise on local levels for local projects. If the CFL HQ needs money for X, Y or Z... let them present the plan, the budget, and the goals and let the free market decide.

QFT.


OT: Visited your website (nice) and saw your post on the "Are they unfairly taxed" with the graphs (http://micahnelson.com/?p=174). Don't know what the data you actually have is, but I've always wondered two things:
1) Chart the PAYROLL Tax (FICA) in the same way (They always talk about "Income Tax" -- but the PAYROLL tax hits the low & medium income WAGE earners much harder than it does the trust-fund types).
2) If you remove the "poverty level" of income from the mix, what does THAT do to the charts.

I have yet to hear someone give me ANY justification for why we are taxing ANY income (via FICA *OR* Federal Income Tax) that is below the federal "poverty level." (They just bloviate on the "standard deduction" BS and then run and hide as soon as they can, to avoid the implications of it all.)

[micahnelson]

The info on my site came from the same study in the Limbaugh article I quoted- which came from a 2001 tax study I believe.

I am against an income tax on principle, and as you can assume, argue for a government limited enough to sustain on money from flat tariffs, user fees, etc.

I will look into FICA, thats a very good point.

Discussing the fairness of a system that is designed to take a cut from the fruit of your labor before you even see it is a little silly. What a mad world in which wanting to keep what you earn is greed, and stealing from one to give to another is compassion.

[Mckarnin]

Well, regardless, they NEED to be publishing that info on the website.

It is irresponsible and highly unethical for them NOT to do so, especially given that they are soliciting funds so blatantly.

I agree and I said as much in my email to Jeff. I also objected to the DONATE button being the most prominent.

[WRellim]

The info on my site came from the same study in the Limbaugh article I quoted- which came from a 2001 tax study I believe.

I am against an income tax on principle, and as you can assume, argue for a government limited enough to sustain on money from flat tariffs, user fees, etc.

I will look into FICA, thats a very good point.

Discussing the fairness of a system that is designed to take a cut from the fruit of your labor before you even see it is a little silly. What a mad world in which wanting to keep what you earn is greed, and stealing from one to give to another is compassion.

Yes, and it is so ridiculous for young (and old) people who work part time... they get a measly little check for say $300 gross pay for part-time work over a week or two, and from that, around $75 is probably deducted (mostly for FICA and Medicare -- which, the young people at least, will NEVER see again). Granted they MAY get a refund at the end of the year, but in the mean time they've had probably close to 1/4 or 1/3 of the pay simply "taken" -- though they may be way below poverty level themselves and need every penny to pay rent, food, and NOWADAYS fuel to get to work... it has always been asinine. But that's just my opinion.

Meanwhile, the trust-fund and CEO types bitch and moan about a 15% capital gains tax, and whine that they "pay all the taxes" (which is BS as your charts show). I'm NOT a "soak the rich" commie type -- but it ticks me off when I see them CONSTANTLY LIE using the Income Tax and ON PURPOSE ignore the FICA payroll and medicare taxes.

[WRellim]

I agree and I said as much in my email to Jeff. I also objected to the DONATE button being the most prominent.


AMEN to BOTH of those points.

IMHO, it makes the whole thing look like a "scam" (and for that reason alone I will not be "sending" a single person to the site... not until there is some solid CONTENT there that has value).

[durden0]

durden,

Get your head out of the sand.

What we are trying to do is to avoid a possible replay of what happened with the presidential campaign. Our money was thoroughly squandered by incompetence and worse.

It bordered on malfeasance and theft, IMHO.

Any new organization raising money under the auspices of RP, sure as heck better have qualified, competent, dedicated and patriotic people running it.

Those who have a problem with some of us standing up for the folks who gave money they couldn't afford to give only to have it pissed away is part of the problem and NOT part of the solution of building ANY type of organization that can actually do more harm than good.

If you will allow that an inefficient and poorly run organization taking the limited resources of the real patriots and Constitutionalists and totally wasting it is a potential problem, then we have no problem. If you think that's OK, then you are simply part of the problem.

No one is forcing you to donate to them. Take your dollars to organization you deem more worthy. You didn't like the way the presidential campaign was run, we get it, i'm sorry, but we're leaps and bounds ahead of where liberty was two years ago, so give the nay saying a rest?

[MsDoodahs]

No one is forcing you to donate to them. Take your dollars to organization you deem more worthy. You didn't like the way the presidential campaign was run, we get it, i'm sorry, but we're leaps and bounds ahead of where liberty was two years ago, so give the nay saying a rest?

There are some here whose sole purpose is nay saying. Add in some envy and the result is a thread like this one...

[Mckarnin]

There are some here whose sole purpose is nay saying. Add in some envy and the result is a thread like this one...


I don't really track the post history of others but I know that I do not have a prior record of nay saying. :)

[MsDoodahs]

I don't really track the post history of others but I know that I do not have a prior record of nay saying. :)

True, your post history doesn't show much naysaying...same can't be said for other participants in this current round.

[Mckarnin]

I'm sure as a mod you know most of our habits pretty well. It must make reading the forum a very different experience.


True, your post history doesn't show much naysaying...same can't be said for other participants in this current round.

[micahnelson]

Ok, i made a thread to get some ideas on paper, so to speak. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=143491

If you wanna throw in your two cents, please do. Hopefully we can avoid a flame war =)

[SteveMartin]

Liberty is ahead of where it was two years ago??

Proofs, please...

[WRellim]

There are some here whose sole purpose is nay saying. Add in some envy and the result is a thread like this one...

This is an inappropriate remark for a "moderator". Bordering on insulting.

But for once you have made a post that features no profanity at all, so perhaps there is some hope for you yet.

Skepticism definitively has it's place... else there would be no Ron Paul.

[MsDoodahs]

Liberty is ahead of where it was two years ago??

Proofs, please...

This forum exists.

:)

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

I've got no problems with the website, but I'm eager to see what they do on the ground.

[SnappleLlama]

I think we just need to be patient. I have no problems waiting to find out what Dr. Paul has up his sleeve... :)

[SteveMartin]

---....

[SteveMartin]

It's not what's up Dr. Paul's sleeve I am worried about....

[Mckarnin]

To be honest I worry that Dr. Paul is not exerting almost any control over the CFL besides that of having appointed a few initial people.



It's not what's up Dr. Paul's sleeve I am worried about....

[LibertyEagle]

Remember that they are still in beta. They are also still looking for a CEO.

In the meantime, if people have recommendations for the CFL, it looks like they are accepting them here:
www.campaignforliberty.com/blog/?p=7

[szczebrzeszyn]

Remember that they are still in beta. They are also still looking for a CEO.

To be honest, I'd call it a pre-alpha state for now.

[amy31416]

Honestly, I think it's one of the best things RP could have done with the money left over from the campaign. It keeps us involved and motivated and doesn't waste the cash on campaign ads that will get us nowhere.

I like it and I can't wait to see how it all shapes up. We don't have to have any artificial FEC barriers between us and HQ, and we can bring all liberty-minded people on board without the stigma of Republican.

[revolutionman]

right now, there isn't much to comment on. I like the introduction, the mission statement helps explain the organization to interested parties on the outside lookin in, and the fact that there is like round the clock blogging seems neato. I'd love it if they put some forums up, and also a section where the platforms official stance on many issues is written out in plain English, and in a format that I could translate, copy, print and distribute to the locals without having to run around the internet piecing the information together.

[BLuegreengrey]

It has gotten news coverage, thats success already.