What Will It Take For True Conservatives To Support RP?

[libertygrl]

I was channel surfing today and came upon a conservative author, Richard Viguerie, who wrote "Conservatives Betrayed" speaking to an audience on Book TV.

He was speaking at FreedomFest and was discussing how Bush and co. have hijacked the Republican party. He was taking about "true conservatives" like Goldwater and how he was influenced by him because of how he took a stance against his own party,when they were wrong about issues and were allowing the govt. to get too big.

At any moment I was sure he was going to mention RP and he did. Turns out he knew RP for 30 yrs, and helped him get elected as a congressman in TX. He said direct mail was a major factor for winning the election. (Maybe we should keep that in mind! Maybe the meetup groups can do this in their perspective states?) Turns out Mr. Viguerie is chairman of American Target Advertising!

Anyway, he continued on and his next topic was some strategies on how to take back their party. He said, "We should be looking for the next Barry Goldwater." I hear this and I start screaming at my tv, "Ron Paul! Ron Paul! Thankfully, a guy in the audience must have shouted out "What about Ron Paul?"

Viguerie responded, "I meant a top tier candidate." I was so pissed I wanted to throw my shoe at the tv!

He totally did not want to respond to this guy and then said something like "the marketplace will decide this election." (well, DUH!) And despite all his glowing praises about RP - "I love RP", "he's clearly the only principled conservative out there", "I would like to see a dozen RP's out there..." etc.. it appeared he didn't want to endorse him because RP is considered a 2nd tier candidate! How foolish!! He mentioned that he was hoping Newt Gingrich would run!!

But the bottom line is that Viguerie believes that this election is basically lost for real conservatives, and that they should focus on the next 6-10 years rather than this coming election!! Ugh... See what we're up against??? How do we get these real conservatives to take Ron Paul seriously instead of him being just a 2nd tier candidate??

I think we have to somehow influence these people. Maybe target advertising like Viguerie claimed was the main factor for getting RP elected to congress? We have to change this mindset of "But can he win??" Otherwise we'll just continue to get the same idiots running (and ruining) our country.

By the way, here's his website:
http://www.conservativesbetrayed.com/

[lynnf]

I was channel surfing today and came upon a conservative author, Richard Viguerie, who wrote "Conservatives Betrayed" speaking to an audience on Book TV.

He was speaking at FreedomFest and was discussing how Bush and co. have hijacked the Republican party. He was taking about "true conservatives" like Goldwater and how he was influenced by him because of how he took a stance against his own party,when they were wrong about issues and were allowing the govt. to get too big.

At any moment I was sure he was going to mention RP and he did. Turns out he knew RP for 30 yrs, and helped him get elected as a congressman in TX. He said direct mail was a major factor for winning the election. (Maybe we should keep that in mind! Maybe the meetup groups can do this in their perspective states?) Turns out Mr. Viguerie is chairman of American Target Advertising!

Anyway, he continued on and his next topic was some strategies on how to take back their party. He said, "We should be looking for the next Barry Goldwater." I hear this and I start screaming at my tv, "Ron Paul! Ron Paul! Thankfully, a guy in the audience must have shouted out "What about Ron Paul?"

Viguerie responded, "I meant a top tier candidate." I was so pissed I wanted to throw my shoe at the tv!

He totally did not want to respond to this guy and then said something like "the marketplace will decide this election." (well, DUH!) And despite all his glowing praises about RP - "I love RP", "he's clearly the only principled conservative out there", "I would like to see a dozen RP's out there..." etc.. it appeared he didn't want to endorse him because RP is considered a 2nd tier candidate! How foolish!! He mentioned that he was hoping Newt Gingrich would run!!

But the bottom line is that Viguerie believes that this election is basically lost for real conservatives, and that they should focus on the next 6-10 years rather than this coming election!! Ugh... See what we're up against??? How do we get these real conservatives to take Ron Paul seriously instead of him being just a 2nd tier candidate??

I think we have to somehow influence these people. Maybe target advertising like Viguerie claimed was the main factor for getting RP elected to congress? We have to change this mindset of "But can he win??" Otherwise we'll just continue to get the same idiots running (and ruining) our country.

By the way, here's his website:
http://www.conservativesbetrayed.com/


I consider myself somewhat of an expert on this since I'm very conservative. My major obstacle to RP was his libertarian leanings. However, once I connected the fact that we had been betrayed with the dilution of the Constitution to nothing, I realized that the only way to get back on the road to fixing things was to elect someone like RP. And it no longer matters whether the candidate is considered to have a "real chance" or not. I'm tired of voting for the lesser of two evils -- you're still voting for an evil.

I think if conservatives could be helped to realize this, it would turn the corner. And I think some are coming around already - it just means there is more work to do. And it doesn't help that the mainstream media keep blaring out the lie that RP doesn't have a chance. Repeat a lie often enough and it is accepted as truth.

lynn

[Scribbler de Stebbing]

For Republicans to support Ron Paul will require that they not associate him with wacky conspiracy theories. They believe in his message of the Constitution and smaller government, but there are enough people trying to distribute things like Freedom To Fascism (even if it's 100% truth) WITH Ron Paul literature to keep him out of the mainstream.

[Shink]

For Republicans to support Ron Paul will require that they not associate him with wacky conspiracy theories. They believe in his message of the Constitution and smaller government, but there are enough people trying to distribute things like Freedom To Fascism (even if it's 100% truth) WITH Ron Paul literature to keep him out of the mainstream.

I don't see how you can blame a very small amount of people who are doing that for that image when you have the entire mainstream media lying and perpetuating it. Since it's the media's fault, primarily, it'd be great if they'd give him good publicity, but it won't happen. They didn't even pretend to care enough to mention the health concerns of his wife all the while blabbing about Obama's and Edwards' wives bickering/spamming of cameras.

I think what it really takes is the realization that Hillary is GUARANTEED to be on the horizon, and that only a truly anti-war candidate (Ron Paul) who is strong on defense (Ron Paul) with a message of freedom(Ron Paul) that's consistent (you get it by now), can beat her. Also, since some people seem to care about the Reagan idol so much, use his supportive quotes and the quote about conservatism and libertarianism are on the same path.

[LastoftheMohicans]

For Republicans to support Ron Paul will require that they not associate him with wacky conspiracy theories. They believe in his message of the Constitution and smaller government, but there are enough people trying to distribute things like Freedom To Fascism (even if it's 100% truth) WITH Ron Paul literature to keep him out of the mainstream.

Which conspiracy theories are, in your opinion, wacky and which are legitimate or at least plausible?

[dircha]

For Republicans to support Ron Paul will require that they not associate him with wacky conspiracy theories. They believe in his message of the Constitution and smaller government, but there are enough people trying to distribute things like Freedom To Fascism (even if it's 100% truth) WITH Ron Paul literature to keep him out of the mainstream.

But the sort of Republican that trusts the government, that isn't outraged by government secrecy, that isn't outraged by the Patriot Act, that doesn't understand that our being Iraq is, not only making the situation in the Middle East worse, but subsidizing and empowering oil and oil services companies and the military industrial complex with our hard earned tax dollars at force of imprisonment, ...is the sort of Republican who has already decided to vote for Fred Thompson.

I know many of them. And while they are all about the 2nd amendment, and they are all about eliminating the IRS, they are outright hostile to any information that would cast doubt on their trust of government, and their support for military action in the Middle East. "If we leave, they will follow us home."

It is a tough situation to be in, but that is the situation. If we want to win over these Republicans, and we have to if we want to have any chance in the primaries, we have to crack that nut. We have to crack the nut of unquestioned trust in government and unconditional support for military action in Iraq and Iran.

Now, I don't think sending out copies of Freedom to Fascism in the name of Ron Paul is the best way to do this, but we have to do it somehow.

[dircha]

I consider myself somewhat of an expert on this since I'm very conservative. My major obstacle to RP was his libertarian leanings. However, once I connected the fact that we had been betrayed with the dilution of the Constitution to nothing, I realized that the only way to get back on the road to fixing things was to elect someone like RP. And it no longer matters whether the candidate is considered to have a "real chance" or not. I'm tired of voting for the lesser of two evils -- you're still voting for an evil.

I think if conservatives could be helped to realize this, it would turn the corner. And I think some are coming around already - it just means there is more work to do. And it doesn't help that the mainstream media keep blaring out the lie that RP doesn't have a chance. Repeat a lie often enough and it is accepted as truth.

lynn

What were the main things that brought you about to recognizing that the track the current administration has taken us on is diluting the Constitution and putting our nation in jeopardy?

I think this is really important to understand, because more people like you are exactly the people we need to convert to the cause.

[lynnf]

For Republicans to support Ron Paul will require that they not associate him with wacky conspiracy theories. They believe in his message of the Constitution and smaller government, but there are enough people trying to distribute things like Freedom To Fascism (even if it's 100% truth) WITH Ron Paul literature to keep him out of the mainstream.

I don't even think that we've reached the point where that is a major problem yet. I think most people are still in the "Who is Ron Paul?" stage. And the "he doesn't have a chance" stance by the media seems to me to be a bigger problem than the conspiracy theory link.

lynn

[lynnf]

What were the main things that brought you about to recognizing that the track the current administration has taken us on is diluting the Constitution and putting our nation in jeopardy?

I think this is really important to understand, because more people like you are exactly the people we need to convert to the cause.


I know that many won't want to hear this, but a big one is the lies about 9/11, but there are others.

Another big one is lying us into the Iraq war. I didn't think they were lies at first, but when fairly solid word came out that in the time period of spring to summer of 2001 the administration was already trying to figure some way to invade Iraq, that was a red flag.

Others have to do with the so-called "Patriot Act" and the loss of Posse-Comitatus and habeas corpus, the spying on American citizens and the legitimization of torture and the circumventing of the Geneva convention, and the military tribunals.

Then there was the statement by the dictator himself: "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face - it's just a GD piece of paper!"

Also the other statement to the effect that it would be easier for a dictator, as "long as I'm the dictator."

And the revelation that evangelical Christians were ridiculed behind their backs in the White House all while courting them for their support.

Then, there's the SPP and the Nafta Super Highway and on, and on.

But even before that, there was something he did here in Texas that showed what the future was going to bring. Back in 2000, when he was governor, there were some plaques in the Texas Supreme Court Building that were illegally taken down. Never mind that they were unpopular plaques, one having a Confederate Battleflag on it. They were taken down in the dead of night without any due process - and this has Alberto Gonzalez written all over it. No regard for the law whatsoever - just do what you want. That was a sign of things to come, we just didn't realize that then.


lynn

[RJB]

Right now so many of them are so brain washed and they're in two camps right now.

1. Who ever can beat Hillary-- Here we can win them. He is the only one who can win against her.

2. Who ever is for pre-emptive war-- I think these are beyond help. I talked to my dad for a few hours. Used religious arguments, constitutional arguments, common sense argument-- and he admitted I was right on everyone, admitted that he'd be mad if Algore had dragged us into this Iraq debacle but had faith in GW, but that was gone. He also admitted that he no longer respected Bush or the republicans because of their sellout of conservative values. I had him sold on Ron Paul.

I saw my dad a few weeks later and He basically told me Ron Paul was wrong on the most important issue of our day-- Islamo Fascism. I didn't bother with redebating him. It was pointless.

[Shink]

How about "Amero Fascism"??!

[RJB]

Actually the best thing we can do is wrap a roll of duct tape around the mouths of Hannity, Rush, Beck, and the other band of Neocons. I really see them as evil. They take the "top tier" full of liars and frauds and wrap them in such a pleasing package that many good conservatives are fooled. Did you ever think we'd see the republican top tier ful of flip floppers on abortion, immigration, expansion of government, pre-emptive war, NAU, etc.!?

It's really insane, and I know many good people people who are zombies when they hear the sweet siren call of the radio neocon. And like the sailors drawn to the siren call who wrecked their ship, our country is headed to those same rocky shores. Hannity is evil.

[Bob Cochran]

Okay...can we define "true conservatism"?

I know what I think it is, but I'm sure others have widely varying definitions.

I'll toss this out.

True conservatism is the tendency to conserve (preserve, retain, carry along) that which has worked very well in the past without discarding it simply because it is old or no longer in fashion.

One example is the traditional family, where the parents are one man and one woman. Any children born to this family will automatically have both a male and a female role model (for better or worse, depending on what kind of people got married to each other).

Other examples are simple but obvious ideas like:

KNOW YOUR ENEMY. Do arrogant neocons think we need to understand how Osama bin Laden thinks? My impression is, no, they do not. We just need to stay angry and continue to kill anyone whom we think MIGHT be like him. But this is not a wise approach to waging war. History tells us this, and good conservatives tend to be astute students of history (not that liberals cannot be).

CHOOSE YOUR BATTLES CAREFULLY.

DO NOT SQUANDER YOUR HARD-EARNED WEALTH FOOLISHLY.

I consider myself to be a "true conservative", but I am willing to consider new ideas. Not all old ideas are good. Some new ideas are fantastic. Some stink. A true conservative, in my view, would use time-honored techniques like, uh...CAREFUL, OBJECTIVE CONSIDERATION before deciding whether an idea is good or bad. This approach is available to liberals, too...they ought to try it once in a while.;)

I'll wrap this up by saying many true conservatives already support Ron Paul. I see Ron Paul, with his libertarian leanings, as a true conservative. There are elements of libertarianism that contain truly conservative ideas.