Obamacons?

[Kade]

A decent article about Barack Obama's Free Market Supporters (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4138151.ece).

[AutoDas]

That doesn't make any sense.

[Fox McCloud]

This fox still won't be voting for him--I don't care who's backing him--he's a socialist through and through, and an interventionist one at that--huh-uh, no way in the world would I vote for him.

[Kotin]

dude kade...


NO MORE NEEDLESS WARS, NO MORE HIGHER TAXES, AND NO MORE LOSS OF LIBERTY

barack obama is just another word for john mccain which is just another word for the same old washington.


get a grip..

[ronpaulhawaii]

Here is another decent article that mentions Obama's "free" market supporters.



Barack Obama is such a stand-up guy that he'll stand up twice — once for each side of an issue. The poetry reading on change and hope is over. Now that he has to talk about real policy, there's little rhyme in the rhythm.

Take James Johnson, who was Obama's adviser on picking a vice president until his resignation Wednesday. Nothing wrong with rich businessmen. They can be smart and help solve America's problems. But Johnson's chief specialty has been in helping himself.
He's apparently been a "friend of Angelo" — that is, Angelo Mozilo, the former head of the infamous mortgage monger Countrywide Financial. Like other well-connected "friends," Johnson received mega mortgages from Countrywide at rates considerably below that offered the average toiler.

But that's not the worst part...
http://www.creators.com/opinion/froma-harrop.html?columnsName=fha

[yongrel]

I hear that supporting Obama is a great way to meet women...

[Kotin]

I hear that supporting Obama is a great way to meet women...

so kade and electricmaji are pimps by trade?

[yongrel]

so kade and electricmaji are pimps by trade?

They must be. I just can't think of any other decent reason they would be supporting him.

[Deborah K]

Ever heard of the Poverty Act? Want the UN to supercede the Constitution? Want yet another assault on your right to bear arms? Want more taxes? Then Obama's your man.

http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=5152

[Deborah K]

"The Global Poverty Act would be a giant step toward the Millennium goal of global governance and international taxes on Americans. Tell your senators to kill this un-American bill."

This bill has already passed in the house.

[Fox McCloud]

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i169/Fox_P_McCloud/same-shit_different-piles.png

[Kade]

I just posted an article, you guys are like newly released prisoners in a brothel.

Chill the hell out you F**king brainless memebots.

[rational thinker]

lol

[familydog]

Is Obamacon anything like Comicon? If so, count me in :D

[winston_blade]

Is he subsidizing the living expenses for these free market people? Because that is the only way he would ever get a free market person to vote for him.

[Andrew-Austin]

Obamacon as in neocon? As in a fellow who preahces to hold certain values when he actually does not?

The Repubs in this article seem to be just going for the lesser evil, they seem to be competent enough to realize McCain is completely bonkers.


“There is a good chunk of people, like myself, who believe the Republicans ought to go down in flames,” he said. “They have made a complete hash of things and they deserve to pay.”

Yes they like many on this forum, want to see the GOP go down in shambles for their sins. And they also probably figure, that third parties will again prove to be a long shot, so them supporting Obama is not completely surprising. This doesn't seem to have much to do with his alleged free market position like the article implies.

[DriftWood]

Yeah it does seem like a weird match. Socialist and free marketers. How is that even possible? Well maybe they can do some damage control once Obama is in office. I think both parties are going to have a rude awakening once the honeymoon is over. "Did i really get into bed with that thing? I must have been drunk out of my mind.."

Cheers

[AutoDas]

Can somebody find that other article on libertarians supporting Obama? It was posted at these forums before.

[haigh]

Can somebody find that other article on libertarians supporting Obama? It was posted at these forums before.

http://www.libertariansforobama.org/2008/06/05/libertarian-support-for-obama/

Is that the one you had in mind? It makes you wonder, 'whats next?' ... Negroes for Slavery....

[James Madison]

"The Global Poverty Act would be a giant step toward the Millennium goal of global governance and international taxes on Americans. Tell your senators to kill this un-American bill."

This bill has already passed in the house.

When did this happen?

[bill50]

It says right on his issues on economics page that Obama supports the free market.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/



I believe that America's free market has been the engine of America's great progress. It's created a prosperity that is the envy of the world. It's led to a standard of living unmatched in history. And it has provided great rewards to the innovators and risk-takers who have made America a beacon for science, and technology, and discovery…We are all in this together. From CEOs to shareholders, from financiers to factory workers, we all have a stake in each other's success because the more Americans prosper, the more America prospers.

— Barack Obama, New York, NY, September 17, 2007


He even goes into detail about how he's going to cut taxes for the "working class" whoever that may be for him and create all these great programs that subsidize to keep the market free. Honestly, how can you get anymore free market. before you all call me stupid that's sarcasm.


"Wages are Stagnant as Prices Rise: While wages remain flat, the costs of basic necessities are increasing. The cost of in-state college tuition has grown 35 percent over the past five years. Health care costs have risen four times faster than wages over the past six years. And the personal savings rate is now the lowest it's been since the Great Depression."


Improve Transition Assistance: To help all workers adapt to a rapidly changing economy, Obama would update the existing system of Trade Adjustment Assistance by extending it to service industries, creating flexible education accounts to help workers retrain, and providing retraining assistance for workers in sectors of the economy vulnerable to dislocation before they lose their jobs.

Support Job Creation: Barack Obama believes we need to double federal funding for basic research and make the research and development tax credit permanent to help create high-paying, secure jobs. Obama will also make long-term investments in education, training, and workforce development so that Americans can leverage our strengths - our ingenuity and entrepreneurialism - to create new high-wage jobs and prosper in a world economy.

Invest in U.S. Manufacturing: The Obama comprehensive energy independence and climate change plan will invest in America's highly-skilled manufacturing workforce and manufacturing centers to ensure that American workers have the skills and tools they need to pioneer the first wave of green technologies that will be in high demand throughout the world. Obama will also provide assistance to the domestic auto industry to ensure that new fuel-efficient vehicles are built by American workers.

Create New Job Training Programs for Clean Technologies: The Obama plan will increase funding for federal workforce training programs and direct these programs to incorporate green technologies training, such as advanced manufacturing and weatherization training, into their efforts to help Americans find and retain stable, high-paying jobs. Obama will also create an energy-focused youth jobs program to invest in disconnected and disadvantaged youth.

Boost the Renewable Energy Sector and Create New Jobs: The Obama plan will create new federal policies, and expand existing ones, that have been proven to create new American jobs. Obama will create a federal Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS) that will require 25 percent of American electricity be derived from renewable sources by 2025, which has the potential to create hundreds of thousands of new jobs on its own. Obama will also extend the Production Tax Credit, a credit used successfully by American farmers and investors to increase renewable energy production and create new local jobs.

Deploy Next-Generation Broadband: Obama believes we can get broadband to every community in America through a combination of reform of the Universal Service Fund, better use of the nation's wireless spectrum, promotion of next-generation facilities, technologies and applications, and new tax and loan incentives.

Invest in Rural Areas: Obama will invest in rural small businesses and fight to expand high-speed Internet access. He will improve rural schools and attract more doctors to rural areas.

Ensure Freedom to Unionize: Obama believes that workers should have the freedom to choose whether to join a union without harassment or intimidation from their employers. Obama cosponsored and is strong advocate for the Employee Free Choice Act, a bipartisan effort to assure that workers can exercise their right to organize. He will continue to fight for EFCA's passage and sign it into law.

Fight Attacks on Workers' Right to Organize: Obama has fought the Bush National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) efforts to strip workers of their right to organize. He is a cosponsor of legislation to overturn the NLRB's "Kentucky River" decisions classifying hundreds of thousands of nurses, construction, and professional workers as "supervisors" who are not protected by federal labor laws.

Create a Universal Mortgage Credit: Obama will create a 10 percent universal mortgage credit to provide homeowners who do not itemize tax relief. This credit will provide an average of $500 to 10 million homeowners, the majority of whom earn less than $50,000 per year.

Expand the Family and Medical Leave Act: The FMLA covers only certain employees of employers with 50 or more employees. Obama will expand it to cover businesses with 25 or more employees. He will expand the FMLA to cover more purposes as well, including allowing workers to take leave for elder care needs; allowing parents up to 24 hours of leave each year to participate in their children's academic activities; and expanding FMLA to cover leave for employees to address domestic violence.

Encourage States to Adopt Paid Leave: As president, Obama will initiate a strategy to encourage all 50 states to adopt paid-leave systems. Obama will provide a $1.5 billion fund to assist states with start-up costs and to help states offset the costs for employees and employers.

Expand High-Quality Afterschool Opportunities: Obama will double funding for the main federal support for afterschool programs, the 21st Century Learning Centers program, to serve a million more children. Obama will include measures to maximize performance and effectiveness across grantees nationwide.

Expand the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit: The Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit provides too little relief to families that struggle to afford child care expenses. Obama will reform the Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit by making it refundable and allowing low-income families to receive up to a 50 percent credit for their child care expenses.

Protect Against Caregiver Discrimination: Workers with family obligations often are discriminated against in the workplace. Obama will enforce the recently-enacted Equal Employment Opportunity Commission guidelines on caregiver discrimination.

Expand Flexible Work Arrangements: Obama will create a program to inform businesses about the benefits of flexible work schedules; help businesses create flexible work opportunities; and increase federal incentives for telecommuting. Obama will also make the federal government a model employer in terms of adopting flexible work schedules and permitting employees to request flexible arrangements.


Protect Striking Workers: Obama supports the right of workers to bargain collectively and strike if necessary. He will work to ban the permanent replacement of striking workers, so workers can stand up for themselves without worrying about losing their livelihoods.

Raise the Minimum Wage: Barack Obama will raise the minimum wage, index it to inflation and increase the Earned Income Tax Credit to make sure that full-time workers earn a living wage that allows them to raise their families and pay for basic needs.

[RSLudlum]

It says right on his issues on economics page that Obama supports the free market.



Raise the Minimum Wage: Barack Obama will raise the minimum wage, index it to inflation and increase the Earned Income Tax Credit to make sure that full-time workers earn a living wage that allows them to raise their families and pay for basic needs.
[/I]


WOOT!!! We will all either be getting a raise so we can afford toliet paper and bread or getting pink slips so we can suck off the nipple of the beast!!!!

Damn, I can't wait :rolleyes:

[Danke]

Yeah it does seem like a weird match. Socialist and free marketers. How is that even possible? Well maybe they can do some damage control once Obama is in office. I think both parties are going to have a rude awakening once the honeymoon is over. "Did i really get into bed with that thing? I must have been drunk out of my mind.."

Cheers

I like it. "Obama, Coyote Ugly!"

[haigh]

So he says he favors a free market but then he wants to raise the minimum wage.
How about the freedom of the employers to pay the market rate?

So he says he favors a free market but then he is opposed to privatizing social security.
How about the freedom of people to control their own retirement?

He favors a free market, but wants to select the parts that will be free and those that won't be free. Even a dictator has to allow some free exchange.

He should be nominated for the George Orwell 1984 Doubletalk award.

[Fox McCloud]

He should be nominated for the George Orwell 1984 Doubletalk award.


QFT.

He says he opposes the war, then vote for war appropriations bills, doesn't promise to get the troops out, and says he'll do "everything" to keep Iran from getting nuclear missiles.

Double-talk, indeed.

[electronicmaji]

So he says he favors a free market but then he wants to raise the minimum wage.
How about the freedom of the employers to pay the market rate?

So he says he favors a free market but then he is opposed to privatizing social security.
How about the freedom of people to control their own retirement?

He favors a free market, but wants to select the parts that will be free and those that won't be free. Even a dictator has to allow some free exchange.

He should be nominated for the George Orwell 1984 Doubletalk award.

I love extremists who thinks one has to be black or white and can not be simply grey.

[Conza88]

I just posted an article, you guys are like newly released prisoners in a brothel.

Chill the hell out you F**king brainless memebots.

Hahaha pissin' off Obama supporters looks fun. :D

[DriftWood]

It says right on his issues on economics page that Obama supports the free market.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/



Yeah, it funny how he first praises the free market and says its what made America great. But then right after, everything he proposes, amounts to an attack on the free market and praise for centrally managed socialized markets.

Cheers

[Kade]

Yeah, it funny how he first praises the free market and says its what made America great. But then right after, everything he proposes, amounts to an attack on the free market and praise for centrally managed socialized markets.

Cheers

Everyone believes in some form of a mixed economy (unless you are an anarchist). The debate is on how mixed, and should large wealthy entities benefit over government regulation than smaller entities... and the answer is no...

[crazyfingers]

Everyone believes in some form of a mixed economy (unless you are an anarchist). The debate is on how mixed, and should large wealthy entities benefit over government regulation than smaller entities... and the answer is no...

Yeah Obama is the next best thing to an anarchist :rolleyes:

His big-government solutions will only lead to an increase in corporatism, to say otherwise is incredibly naive about the way the world works.

[Kade]

Yeah Obama is the next best thing to an anarchist :rolleyes:

His big-government solutions will only lead to an increase in corporatism, to say otherwise is incredibly naive about the way the world works.

I'm going to stop attacking at this point, and respond that you have no said anything to critique what I have said.

Everyone believes in some form of mixed economy.

Obama's version of that mixed economy is less invasive thn the police state, corporatist (under the guise of free enterprise) military complex society envisioned by the GOP.

Read "White Protestant Nation" by Allan Lichtman.

[DriftWood]

Everyone believes in some form of a mixed economy (unless you are an anarchist). The debate is on how mixed, and should large wealthy entities benefit over government regulation than smaller entities... and the answer is no...

Nope, I'm not a anarchist and i believe the market should be free, except for a low flat tax on consumption to pay for law, police and national defense. Probably the police and national defense could be contracted out to private firms to get the best bang for the buck, but they would still be paid with tax money.

Other than that, there should be no govt regulations on the economy.. Punishing profitable companies or big businesses, and rewarding small companies that don't manage to make profits. Its just foolish. This is rewarding inefficiency, and punishing progress. It goes against the whole concept of capitalism and a economy growing more efficient. (Just like with evolution there can be no progress without nature letting the sick die.)

If you think wealthy companies should be forced to pay to keep unprofitable ones from going under. Then you probably also think that rich people should be forced to pay taxes to provide for people that have not managed to get rich. It goes against the whole idea of self responsibility. Noone should be forced to provide for anyone else, not when it comes to individuals, and not when it comes to companies.

Cheers

[Kade]

Nope, I'm not a anarchist and i believe the market should be free (except for low flat tax on consumption to pay for law, police and national defense. Probably the police and national defense could contracted out to private firms, but they would still be payed with tax money.)

There should be no govt regulations on the economy.. The ones that do exist usually punish profitable companies or big businesses, and rewarding small companies that don't manage to make profits. Its just foolish. This is rewarding inefficiency, and punishing progress. It goes against the whole concept of capitalism and a economy growing more efficient.

If you think wealthy companies should be forced to pay to keep unprofitable ones from going under. Then you probably also think that rich people should be forced to pay taxes to provide for people that have not managed to get rich. It goes against the whole idea of self responsibility. Noone should be forced to provide for anyone else, not when it comes to individuals, and not when it comes to companies.

Cheers

We can discuss and critique the problems with anarchy later... if you wish. In the meantime, I invite you to research the 1980s and Early 90s country of Chile.

I think failing companies should be allowed to die. It was the GOP and Morgan who bailed out Bear Stearns.

I think the wealthy should be taxed by similar percentages and that tax shelters available at higher incomes should be available by the same percentages to lower incomes.

No one should be forced, yet we must pay taxes... Once the taxes have been paid, their allocation is not an undo burden on your person. What the governments, local and federal do with those taxes is our concern, which is why this should be open to debate.

Some people WANT healthcare. Some people want highways, some people want an unemployment fund, some people want sewage, and basic safety guidelines...etc...etc... This is the desire of the Republic, one that, regardless of how you feel, provides a general benefit to all of us. That is where the debate lies... not in stripping completely our infrastructure and allowing complete access to whichever large organism can better swallow up the rest...

Now, I don't agree with all these wants of the society.. but we can, and we have, made good cases for the limitations...

The GOP has benefited only the wealthy, in a way that was unfair, with tax subsidies to the wealthiest, on a disproportionate scale, and to corporations as personhoods.

No bid contracts, and ridiculous military funding, this is the debate... it is not about one side being more right than the other... but if people become too poor to support themselves, I guarantee you that one side will win, and none of us will benefit from it.

[DriftWood]

We can discuss and critique the problems with anarchy later... if you wish. In the meantime, I invite you to research the 1980s and Early 90s country of Chile.

I think failing companies should be allowed to die. It was the GOP and Morgan who bailed out Bear Stearns.

I think the wealthy should be taxed by similar percentages and that tax shelters available at higher incomes should be available by the same percentages to lower incomes.

No one should be forced, yet we must pay taxes... Once the taxes have been paid, their allocation is not an undo burden on your person. What the governments, local and federal do with those taxes is our concern, which is why this should be open to debate.

Some people WANT healthcare. Some people want highways, some people want an unemployment fund, some people want sewage, and basic safety guidelines...etc...etc... This is the desire of the Republic, one that, regardless of how you feel, provides a general benefit to all of us. That is where the debate lies... not in stripping completely our infrastructure and allowing complete access to whichever large organism can better swallow up the rest...

Now, I don't agree with all these wants of the society.. but we can, and we have, made good cases for the limitations...

The GOP has benefited only the wealthy, in a way that was unfair, with tax subsidies to the wealthiest, on a disproportionate scale, and to corporations as personhoods.

No bid contracts, and ridiculous military funding, this is the debate... it is not about one side being more right than the other... but if people become too poor to support themselves, I guarantee you that one side will win, and none of us will benefit from it.

Yeah im all against tax subsidies. Especially the ones that farming subsidies to poor farmers that just end up end up in the pockets of rich farmers. Subsidies are the problem, Obama does not talk about ending subsidies. He probably voted like "everyone else" to increase the farming subsidies this year.

When it comes to taxes, something like 10% of the people pay for 90% of the taxes revenues the govt earns, guess who? The same goes for companies. A few big ones pay the most to govt the coffers. Even with a flat tax rich people would end up paying the largest amount of public spending. Progressive taxes just make this relationship worse. The worst thing you can do to the economy is to kill off the very hand feeds you. When tax rates for the rich have been raise in the past, then it just kills off more rich people. Every year there will be less and less rich people, that means there will be less and less people picking up the tab for the rest of us.

Noone ever likes the rich, they are a small hated bunch. Even when they pay for the rest of us.. well we the people just demand more. Off with their heads!

Same goes for big companies.. they got big because they are good to the consumer. They make the cheapest product to the highest quality out there. If we kill them off we are just hurting the consumer, we are only hurting ourselves.

(Anti-trust laws are actually anti-competition and anti-consumer laws. Companies just use them so to gain special treatment from the state, so that they will not have to compete on equal terms. Same goes for the unions, if you ask me.)

Cheers

[Kade]

Yeah im all against tax subsidies. Especially the ones that farming subsidies to poor farmers that just end up end up in the pockets of rich farmers. Subsidies are the problem, Obama does not talk about ending subsidies. He probably voted like "everyone else" to increase the farming subsidies this year.

When it comes to taxes, something like 10% of the people pay for 90% of the taxes revenues the govt earns, guess who? The same goes for companies. A few big ones pay the most to govt the coffers. Even with a flat tax rich people would end up paying the largest amount of public spending. Progressive taxes just make this relationship worse. The worst thing you can do to the economy is to kill off the very hand feeds you. When tax rates for the rich have been raise in the past, then it just kills off more rich people. Every year there will be less and less rich people, that means there will be less and less people picking up the tab for the rest of us.

Noone ever likes the rich, they are a small hated bunch. Even when they pay for the rest of us.. well we the people just demand more. Off with their heads!

Same goes for big companies.. they got big because they are good to the consumer. They make the cheapest product to the highest quality out there. If we kill them off we are just hurting the consumer, we are only hurting ourselves.

(Anti-trust laws are actually anti-competition and anti-consumer laws. Companies just use them so to gain special treatment from the state, so that they will not have to compete on equal terms. Same goes for the unions, if you ask me.)

Cheers

By percentage, the wealthy do not pay nearly as much in taxes as the poor.

[AutoDas]

The government doesn't accept percentages.

Some people want fancy watches, cars, hookers. Should we pay for them by our taxes as well?