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View Full Version : So did "Live Free or Die" in NH do more harm than good?




muh_roads
06-15-2008, 12:13 PM
I don't visit here often so I'm sorry if I am bringing up a dead horse that everyone knows about.

New Hampshire seemed to be our state to win, we should've won. Wasn't it something like 60% of McCain voters were anti-war?

Then I read somewhere about how many nutzo college kids went out to NH to help...but instead they mostly spread Alex Jones DVD's...apparently they focused more on trying to make that issue everyone elses issue. It sounds like many spent more time passing out EndGame and 9/11 conspiracy stuff instead of talking about Ron Paul...yet they still made it clear that they were supporters of Ron Paul giving everyone the impression he was as nuts as they were.

Then it gets worse. It sounds like these kids were on the phonebanks calling people past midnight and talking about 9/11 and everything else.

I'm not here to argue whether 9/11 was an inside job or not...I'm just really upset the more I read about what actually happened during the "Live Free or Die" effort in NH. Carl Cameron even posed the question to Paul in the debates...it must've been everywhere in NH.

So is all of this true? You people that follow this stuff know more than I...
Was this really the majority of the grassroots effort in NH?

ItsTime
06-15-2008, 12:19 PM
We could never have won. Too many from boston are moving to southern NH.

I will only say this... At the sign wave I held right before the election one of the LFD people almost got into a fist fight with a driver by. Some had little respect for property rights and were really rude. I dont know about the dvds I never took one, guess I should have.

I posted warnings about their activities but not many listened. They were simply to aggressive.

No that was not the majority of grassroots efforts. In my area we went door to door to door and Ron Paul received 18 to 25% of the vote.

MsDoodahs
06-15-2008, 12:26 PM
I don't visit here often so I'm sorry if I am bringing up a dead horse that everyone knows about.

New Hampshire seemed to be our state to win, we should've won. Wasn't it something like 60% of McCain voters were anti-war?

Then I read somewhere about how many nutzo college kids went out to NH to help...but instead they mostly spread Alex Jones DVD's...apparently they focused more on trying to make that issue everyone elses issue. It sounds like many spent more time passing out EndGame and 9/11 conspiracy stuff instead of talking about Ron Paul...yet they still made it clear that they were supporters of Ron Paul giving everyone the impression he was as nuts as they were.

Then it gets worse. It sounds like these kids were on the phonebanks calling people past midnight and talking about 9/11 and everything else.

I'm not here to argue whether 9/11 was an inside job or not...I'm just really upset the more I read about what actually happened during the "Live Free or Die" effort in NH. Carl Cameron even posed the question to Paul in the debates...it must've been everywhere in NH.

So is all of this true? You people that follow this stuff know more than I...
Was this really the majority of the grassroots effort in NH?

Yep, that's what was relayed here.

Was it in NH that some "supporters" chased Hannity down the street pitching snowballs at him? I don't recall offhand exactly when that incident occurred...

IMO, such things hurt more than they helped.

muh_roads
06-15-2008, 12:26 PM
We could never have won. Too many from boston are moving to southern NH.

I will only say this... At the sign wave I held right before the election one of the LFD people almost got into a fist fight with a driver by. Some had little respect for property rights and were really rude. I dont know about the dvds I never took one, guess I should have.

I posted warnings about their activities but not many listened. They were simply to aggressive.

No that was not the majority of grassroots efforts. In my area we went door to door to door and Ron Paul received 18 to 25% of the vote.

Sounds like the area you worked was handled by sane Paul supporters. Congrats to your effort.

To only garner 6% overall in the state, even lower than Giuliani I think says a lot though. Other areas were either not getting covered, or getting too much coverage with wackos turning people off.
That's sad that you seen them trying to start fights. They must've completely surrounded the Fox News vans for Cameron to mention it.

yongrel
06-15-2008, 12:28 PM
The operation was led by some great people, and even more great people participated. Many from RPF were involved too.

Unfortunately, more than a few knuckleheads went up there too. Bastards.

ItsTime
06-15-2008, 12:31 PM
The operation was led by some great people, and even more great people participated. Many from RPF were involved too.

Unfortunately, more than a few knuckleheads went up there too. Bastards.

I should add that the majority of people were level headed. just enough bad apples to make things look bad. who even knows if they were really Ron Paul supporters acting out?

muh_roads
06-15-2008, 12:32 PM
Yep, that's what was relayed here.

Was it in NH that some "supporters" chased Hannity down the street pitching snowballs at him? I don't recall offhand exactly when that incident occurred...

IMO, such things hurt more than they helped.

ah yes I forgot about that. Yep that was also in NH.

RonPaulVolunteer
06-15-2008, 12:33 PM
I am as full blown a 911-truther as you could get. Yet it totally pisses me off to see other truthers using Ron Paul in this manner. I have banned ALL truther materials from the Freedom Tour. People have asked to speak about 911 and I have told them flatly, no. There is a time and a place, and this movement is neither. The Denver Metro Meetup lost all influence because of their leader's insistence on preaching 911-truth stuff all the time. He has now stepped down thank goodness, maybe the group can be resurrected now.

muh_roads
06-15-2008, 12:34 PM
I should add that the majority of people were level headed. just enough bad apples to make things look bad. who even knows if they were really Ron Paul supporters acting out?

I often wondered if the late night calls past midnight was a Rove operation?

ronpaulhawaii
06-15-2008, 12:34 PM
I was in NH in Manchester and Concord. I did not see any 911 signs, I did not see anyone starting fights, I did not hear of anyone with LFoD calling after midnight (and find that to be implausible). I arrived in Manchester just after the snowball incident, (on the day FOX barred RP from the debate) and the crowd was a bit rowdy but not "unruly".

I just figured all of the enthusiasm shown by all the supporters of all the candidates was part and parcel in a battleground state

crazyfingers
06-15-2008, 12:34 PM
I think one of the problems was that RP didn't spend enough time in the state. McCain held dozens of "town hall meetings" in the weeks leading up to the primary, and it paid off big time. New Hampshire primary voters are extremely spoiled; if a candidate doesn't show up in their small town, many won't vote for him or her.

yongrel
06-15-2008, 12:36 PM
I am as full blown a 911-truther as you could get. Yet it totally pisses me off to see other truthers using Ron Paul in this manner. I have banned ALL truther materials from the Freedom Tour. People have asked to speak about 911 and I have told them flatly, no. There is a time and a place, and this movement is neither. The Denver Metro Meetup lost all influence because of their leader's insistence on preaching 911-truth stuff all the time. He has now stepped down thank goodness, maybe the group can be resurrected now.

*applauds*

muh_roads
06-15-2008, 12:40 PM
I think one of the problems was that RP didn't spend enough time in the state. McCain held dozens of "town hall meetings" in the weeks leading up to the primary, and it paid off big time. New Hampshire primary voters are extremely spoiled; if a candidate doesn't show up in their small town, many won't vote for him or her.

Yeah all I remember was one townhall meeting with Paul. The one that was televised to cable access. With all that money Paul had, he should've been doing that a lot more. If only he did that in those smaller towns as well...then all those worried people about Bush saying "we should stay in Iraq for 50 years" could've heard Paul.

spotics
06-15-2008, 02:33 PM
I believe there were a few problems with his campaign in New Hampshire. First was he did not spend enough time in the state. Voters expect candidates to hold townhall events in small communities. He did not do enough of those.

The second was the phone calls. They were using automated phone calls twice a day for some people. That was pure overkill, and ticked many people off.

Third his campaign was run by people, who in my opinion did not care whether he won or not. I found this to be the case throughout the campaign. In Iowa I was told that they had identified 20,000 supporters. However they failed to get the GOTV information to the county cooridinators until 4:30 p.m. on caucus day.

MMolloy
06-15-2008, 03:05 PM
I was in NH in Manchester and Concord. I did not see any 911 signs, I did not see anyone starting fights, I did not hear of anyone with LFoD calling after midnight (and find that to be implausible). I arrived in Manchester just after the snowball incident, (on the day FOX barred RP from the debate) and the crowd was a bit rowdy but not "unruly".

I just figured all of the enthusiasm shown by all the supporters of all the candidates was part and parcel in a battleground state

I was in NH with OLFD for 2 weeks and didn't see any 9-11 truth signs or any of the things mentioned by the OP ... there were some people who could have been a little more professional but most acted in a manner to be proud of.

One thing that most people fail to place enough emphasis on: McCain won New Hampshire in 2000. Voters tend to unconciously invest part of their ego in a candidate they have voted for and will be more likely to vote for that candidate again unless that candidate has done something to negatively affect them personally.

Another thing, NH had a HUGE turnout. At the poll I worked there was a 65% turnout... that is large for a general election. Our numbers were dilluted for this and a number of other reasons: Large field; many would be supporters (independents) voted Democrat; etc.

This thread does not seem to offer any CONSTRUCTIVE critique... so I have to question it's value... where is that "dead horse with the flies" smilie?