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View Full Version : Iraq Troop Surge Failing




tmg19103
08-25-2007, 09:51 PM
As I figured, this big troop surge in Baghdad just pushed all the warring factions all across the country. U.S. soldier deaths are down a little, but Iraqi bloodshead is through the roof. It's a civil war, similar to Viet Nam in that nobody wants our help, and as RP said - our troops should "just come home". Will be interesting to see what kind of spin Bush puts on this mess in September, and whether GOP candidates start to copy RP on this like with other things. Giuliani won't budge, but I could see Flip Romney making some gyrations that totally reverse his course with this.

Iraq is suffering about double the number of war-related deaths throughout the country compared with last year an average daily toll of 33 in 2006, and 62 so far this year.

Nearly 1,000 more people have been killed in violence across Iraq in the first eight months of this year than in all of 2006. So far this year, about 14,800 people have died in war-related attacks and sectarian murders. AP reporting accounted for 13,811 deaths in 2006. The United Nations and other sources placed the 2006 toll far higher.

Baghdad has gone from representing 76 percent of all civilian and police war-related deaths in Iraq in January to 52 percent in July, bringing it back to the same spot it was roughly a year ago.

According to the Iraqi Red Crescent Organization, the number of displaced Iraqis has more than doubled since the start of the year, from 447,337 on Jan. 1 to 1.14 million on July 31.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070826/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_counting_the_dead

constituent
08-25-2007, 09:55 PM
you know, this reminds me...

all this talk lately from the militarists about 4th gen. warfare right. well it seems to me like 4th gen. warfare isn't war unless there is some sort of occupying force to set it off.

and the methods for fighting against it seem like an excuse to perpetually monitor all informational exchanges, to influence (or attempt to influence) the political process of all nations, to quell any and all dissent, and to have a battle of ideas in a larger neverending war against an eternally changing enemy.

at what point do they realize that what they are describing is life in a new century... not war. ???

noxagol
08-25-2007, 10:02 PM
If you read the book "Imperial Hubris", recommended by Ron Paul and written by Michael Shuer, the way to end terrorism is to lose the fight. If you want to stop terrorism against the US, we need to "just come home". From everywhere. THAT is why they fight us. They see bin Laden as a Saladin (do some history to figure out who that is) fighting the crusaders (that would be us).

They say the terrorists hate us because of our freedoms, I get the impression that it is the other way around. We hate them for their freedoms, as defined by Islam, which is service to god which means having Shariah law. We said they would be able to have a self-determined government, but we won't let them have the one they want....

They do not want us there and the quicker we leave the quicker we can get to making peace with the middle-east.

richard1984
08-25-2007, 10:09 PM
If you read the book "Imperial Hubris", recommended by Ron Paul and written by Michael Shuer, the way to end terrorism is to lose the fight. If you want to stop terrorism against the US, we need to "just come home". From everywhere. THAT is why they fight us. They see bin Laden as a Saladin (do some history to figure out who that is) fighting the crusaders (that would be us).

They say the terrorists hate us because of our freedoms, I get the impression that it is the other way around. We hate them for their freedoms, as defined by Islam, which is service to god which means having Shariah law. We said they would be able to have a self-determined government, but we won't let them have the one they want....

They do not want us there and the quicker we leave the quicker we can get to making peace with the middle-east.

Exactly. It's like we're over there fanning the flame and stirring the pot while yelling at the same time "Stop cooking!!!!" It just doesn't make any sense at all. I mean, we are creating our enemies as we go. Who IS this "war" against? Because I don't honestly know. I never have.

singapore_sling
08-25-2007, 10:58 PM
Yeop, the thing is, if we bring everyone home and we still get attacked then atleast the international community will be on our side. If you don't give them a reason to be angry anymore then they'll just make themselves look like idiots, even to everyone in the muslim world.

jj111
08-25-2007, 11:00 PM
I wonder when and how far the other Republicans candidates are going to backtrack on their hawkish support of the Iraq War. There is a huge and growing tide of public opinion against the war, which should benefit RP more and more as time goes on.

billm317
08-25-2007, 11:06 PM
This report will be nothing for the Bush administration or FOXNews to spin the hell out of! Oh wait, no one will ask the Bush administration about it and FOXNews just won't report on it.

Feel free to give Hannity a call on Monday and ask him about this!
800.941.7326 - they take calls from 3-6pm EST

Don't leave our buddy Bill O'Reilly out!
877-9-NO-SPIN - they take calls from 12-2pm EST

EDIT: Any neo-conservative talk show would be great to call about this on Monday. If you call, read over the article more than once. Know the stats.

Wyurm
08-25-2007, 11:06 PM
Exactly. It's like we're over there fanning the flame and stirring the pot while yelling at the same time "Stop cooking!!!!" It just doesn't make any sense at all. I mean, we are creating our enemies as we go. Who IS this "war" against? Because I don't honestly know. I never have.

Us, its a war against us. Us being normal common people in all nations around the world. The important question is who benefits? If you find the answer to "who benefits?" then you will have the answer to who is really waging the war, or pushing for it to continue. I'll give some possibilities. Haliburtion, DynCorp, Blackwater, everyone in this article: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0714-01.htm and you should get the idea by now. In other words, this should stop being called the War on Terror right now, because that is a lie.

I recommend one of the following:

The War of Profit
War of Terror for Profit
Terrifying Profit war
Blood for Money Campaign

If there was any just cause for this "war" (normal wars don't have ethereal targets) is has been lost in a sea of money. Where do they get the money? Us. Thus this is a war on us.

dircha
08-26-2007, 01:01 AM
If Ron Paul is to get the GOP nomination, we have a lot of work to do to persuade GOP primary voters.

And I'm afraid that when the administration trots out the "evidence" and the generals in a few weeks now declaring the Surge to be a success and showing great promise, that it isn't going to be enough to say "No, actually, look at the facts, we are failing unbelievably." Just as how after it had been proven to be false, polls were still showing that a majority of Americans believed Saddam was involved in 9/11. Once the administration brings out its Surge dog any pony show "proving" the success of the Surge, we will be on the defensive and we won't be able to convince traditional GOP primary voters.

And there is a lot of hostility right now among "unconverted" traditional GOP activists against Ron Paul's foreign policy. They really, truly do believe the line "If we leave now, they will follow us home." And, "We must fight them there or we will fight them here." It is truly a remarkable job of propaganda, but nonetheless this is what we have to work with.

RP supporters need to drill home, more than ever, the origins of Al Qaeda, the origins of Bin Laden, and the narrative of how if it were not for our establishing permanent bases in Saudi Arabia, an attack on U.S. soil wouldn't have even been on his radar. Add to this the general message of blowback. And show how by defeating Saddam, who was our secular ally in the region again Iran, has strengthened and emboldened Iran and Syria, and radicalized many young muslims against us in an unprecedented way.

Show them this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=881321004838285177&q=the+power+of+nightmares&total=319&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4602171665328041876&q=the+power+of+nightmares&total=319&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2081592330319789254&q=the+power+of+nightmares&total=319&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=2

Tell them its time to stop nation building in other countries and start rebuilding our own.