Irish and the EU

[Carole]

Just found this little gem.

Irish could kill EU dream

http://business.smh.com.au/irish-could-kill-eu-dream-20080609-2nqg.html

[CoreyBowen999]

Go Irish!!

[Primbs]

Looks like a great time to take a trip to Ireland. The election is June 12.

[Carole]

:D

[rpfan2008]

Papers say its going to be Yes
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0609/breaking62.htm
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0609/eulisbon1.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7442859.stm

[rpfan2008]

more here

http://news.google.com/news?ned=en_ie&btn=Go

[Nirvikalpa]

'No's' came out ahead in old polls: http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0605/eulisbon.html

Let's hope the Irish aren't as brainwashed as Americans.

[bkreigh]

Stay Strong Ireland!

[Conza88]

Papers say its going to be Yes
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0609/breaking62.htm
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0609/eulisbon1.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7442859.stm

They would... to try get into that 'want to win' mentality.

[Carole]

Papers say its going to be Yes
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0609/breaking62.htm
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0609/eulisbon1.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7442859.stm

Gosh! The picture! two of those gentlemen look like corpses.

The third link was encouraging. Sounds as though lots of people have a sense of the consequences of this referendum. After so many have died in Ireland over freedom, it seems strange to think many might give it away. But I do not really know what all is in the referendum.


"Ireland's coalition government argues for a Yes vote, saying the EU has been very good financially to Ireland for the last 35 years and that the country should remain at the heart of Europe.

The Irish Foreign Minister, Micheal Martin, says: "In essence, the Lisbon Treaty is making the European Union work more efficiently and better for the citizens of Europe. And, so, if the European Union works better Ireland will work better."

It is a difficult time for the government and the main opposition parties to sell a Yes vote. "

"But voters remain largely disinterested and confused by what both sides agree is a complex treaty. "

I do not understand that remark about the EU being good to Ireland for 35 years. The EU is not nearly thirty five years old. It is less than ten, isn't it?

Do not these people understand that it is big bankers running their lives-just like here? They will be forever in debt and be puppets for the leaders.

They are hoping the EU will work better. :eek::eek:

[Timothy]

Do not these people understand that it is big bankers running their lives-just like here? They will be forever in debt and be puppets for the leaders.

Well, at least those bankers aren't privately profiting from it, but work on behalf of the different EU states which claim all profits made by the European central bank.

[Zolah]

It's more out of hope than expectation that Ireland will save us from a unified EU, European Socialists are in abundance and most people aren't fully aware of the implications of the EU.

I hope they get it right, but what's to stop the EU scrapping the Lisbon Treaty and coming up with the exact same thing with a different name and pursuing their agenda until enough people say yes.

[sidster]

Glad I found this thread. I was gonna post this link sent to me by a friend
on the same topic: EU's Lisbon Treaty:

Will Irish 'ayes' be smiling soon? (http://news.scotsman.com/world/Will-Irish-39ayes39-be-smiling.4167306.jp)

I didn't get a good feel from this article, as it seems a very close
fight based on the polls. We'll see...

[fatjohn]

I hate this treaty, i'm Belgian and can't vote. It will however determine if we'll have a president (probably Stupid Tony, the puppet of bush, who himself is a puppet from someone) And i won't be able to vote for that president eather, I won't be able to vote for a change in the constitution since this treaty practicly writes all over the members states their constitutions. And then the elite will be able to do whatever they want. It's depressing.

[DriftWood]

Gosh! The picture! two of those gentlemen look like corpses.

The third link was encouraging. Sounds as though lots of people have a sense of the consequences of this referendum. After so many have died in Ireland over freedom, it seems strange to think many might give it away. But I do not really know what all is in the referendum.


"Ireland's coalition government argues for a Yes vote, saying the EU has been very good financially to Ireland for the last 35 years and that the country should remain at the heart of Europe.

The Irish Foreign Minister, Micheal Martin, says: "In essence, the Lisbon Treaty is making the European Union work more efficiently and better for the citizens of Europe. And, so, if the European Union works better Ireland will work better."

It is a difficult time for the government and the main opposition parties to sell a Yes vote. "

"But voters remain largely disinterested and confused by what both sides agree is a complex treaty. "

I do not understand that remark about the EU being good to Ireland for 35 years. The EU is not nearly thirty five years old. It is less than ten, isn't it?

Do not these people understand that it is big bankers running their lives-just like here? They will be forever in debt and be puppets for the leaders.

They are hoping the EU will work better. :eek::eek:

The 35 years thing.. EU changed its name when another unifying treaty was signed.. previously it was called the EC. The Irish got lots of subsidies and developmental funds from the other EU members. That's part of the reason Ireland no longer is a poor country. Even if these subsidies was good for Ireland, it was bad for the rest of EU that had to pay for it.

Edit: EU has tried to scrap subsidies like the farm subsidies before.. but because every member has to agree for anything to be changed.. the countries that get subsidies will always vote against scrapping it, so no subsidy, however obviously unfair and wasteful ever gets scrapped. The French always vote against any cut in the subsidies they get, the Irish vote against a cut in their subsidies, etc.. and everyone suffers in the end because they have to pay for the subsidies of all these other countries. The treaty they are voting about now, is a change in the system to regular majority voting. In such a system, EU might actually be able to stop paying these stupid subsidies. In this sense the new system would be a big improvement.

Cheers

[freelance]

And here is what the masters think of the slaves:

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/5304/

[pinkmandy]

I hate this treaty, i'm Belgian and can't vote. It will however determine if we'll have a president (probably Stupid Tony, the puppet of bush, who himself is a puppet from someone) And i won't be able to vote for that president eather, I won't be able to vote for a change in the constitution since this treaty practicly writes all over the members states their constitutions. And then the elite will be able to do whatever they want. It's depressing.

And that is what's wrong w/it right there. You have no voice. How can anyone justify the silencing of the people? It doesn't matter whether some think it might work or not and whether they believe that the EU isn't corrupt- it's about having the choice in the first place.

[DriftWood]

Some more news..

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/needtoknow/2008/06/ireland_takes_the_eu_spotlight.html

There are even some concpiracy theories about the motivations and funding for the "No" side campaign.




[...]

But the chief sponsor of the No vote is Libertas, a group led and funded by two Irish entrepreneurs who head U.S.-based companies with strong ties to the American military. Whether that is a coincidence or not, it has given rise to conspiracy theories galore and suspicions of U.S. involvement in the anti-Lisbon campaign.

Libertas was founded by Galway native Declan J. Ganley, chairman and CEO of Rivada Networks, a provider of interoperable public safety communications networks for homeland security forces and first responders headquartered in Washington, D.C. Although Libertas claims to be independent of Rivada, they share many of the same personnel.

What motivated Ganley to form Libertas is an open question. According to a spokesman, Ganley read the EU constitution in 2004 to check out any business opportunities it might open up.

“When he read it, he discovered that it was so fundamentally anti-democratic that something had to be done,” the spokesman said in an emailed response. “He founded Libertas to lobby for greater democracy and accountability in the EU.”

Mailboxes overflow with anti-treaty literature delivered by Libertas volunteers. The company remains secretive about its funding sources, raising speculation that some may exceed the Irish legal limit. However, one is known to be Ulick McEvaddy.

An entrepreneur with interests in many ventures – including an €800 million development near Berlin’s new airport. McEvaddy heads Omega Air, a San Antonio, TX-based company that offers commercial airborne refueling of military aircraft.

“The idea of a politically strong E.U., acting as a check or counterbalance on the U.S. does not sit well with our transatlantic friends,” Fine Gael representative Lucinda Creighton declared in a statement. “And now as stronger political union becomes likely, these two figures with close links to the U.S. military are trying to derail the process.”

Comments by John Bolton, former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, added fuel to the conspiracy theory. In an interview with Britain’s Daily Telegraph, Bolton said the treaty would undercut NATO, which he described as a huge mistake. If the EU had its own military capability, people would think NATO was redundant and Europe could take care of its own defense, Bolton said.

[...]




Cheers

[gang]

That's the "best" YES-argument I've read by now:


"The truth of the matter is I don't know the guts of [the treaty], so I basically left it to the politicians."

BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7451710.stm) :eek:

[Pearse 1916]

It's not over yet! Looks like there's going to be another referendum.

[DriftWood]

Latest news.

"Czech government blesses EU treaty"

http://euobserver.com/9/26422



The Czech government has advised the country's Constitutional Court that the EU's Lisbon treaty does not violate the Czech Republic's own constitution, improving the climate for ratification in the most problematic EU state after the Irish No vote.

[...]

Ratification map

France, Germany and the European Commission have called for ratification to continue despite the Irish No, pointing to a scenario in which Ireland stands isolated against 26 EU states and faces pressure for a re-vote, as occured with the 2001 Nice treaty referendum.

Sixteen EU countries have so far definitively ratified Lisbon. The Finnish, Polish and German parliaments have approved the text, but are awaiting their presidents' signatures. The Swedish, Dutch, Belgian, Italian, Spanish, and Cypriot legislatures will finish voting between July and the autumn.

The Czech Republic is not the only problem country left, with the Polish president's office questioning whether the treaty still legally exists and the German constitutional court considering a legal challenge.

Austrian leader Alfred Gusenbauer last week said he would also call a referendum if Lisbon is tweaked for a second Irish vote.



Cheers

[Conza88]

"Czech government blesses EU treaty"

How the f--k can they do that. Isn't the president the dude who wants to debate Al gore?
Global warming is bs etc..

He knows the EU is bs aswell.. Whats up?