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llamabread
05-15-2007, 08:42 PM
Personally, I thought he wasn't as strong as the first debate, but I would blame that on only getting 5 minutes of air time. Anyway, I wanted to put a new post debate thread out there.

ButchHowdy
05-15-2007, 08:44 PM
I thought Ron did great!

Thank you Ron Paul for stirrin the Puddin!

ratsbew
05-15-2007, 08:46 PM
I'm not all that impressed with his performance, but at the same time everybody (moderators included) were attacking and mocking him. I think you will find that the spike in the blogs will show more disapproval this time around.
Click on the link in my signature to see the stats after the debate.

jaybone
05-15-2007, 08:48 PM
Not a great speaker, lots of 'ums' and 'ahs'
BUT, he speaks from the heart and actually believes in what he says.
And he is obviously not afraid to rattle some cages.
Whether that will be appreciated by the sheeple is another question.

amonasro
05-15-2007, 08:50 PM
he did well, but given three bad questions what did you expect? And the questions were obviously pre-planned to discredit him.

TrybalRage
05-15-2007, 08:52 PM
Not a great speaker, lots of 'ums' and 'ahs'
BUT, he speaks from the heart and actually believes in what he says.
And he is obviously not afraid to rattle some cages.
Whether that will be appreciated by the sheeple is another question.

After hearing the sheeple cheer for that mushmouth idiot Giuliani, no, I don't think he was appreciated.

A real shame.

MsDoodahs
05-15-2007, 08:52 PM
Did anyone else get the feeling that everyone BUT Ron had the questions in advance?

Or at least had hints of what their questions would be?

They all seemed pretty polished...a little too polished, if you know what I mean?

mlpyeatt
05-15-2007, 08:53 PM
The truth of the matter is that the Republican party showed tonight that it has moved away from its past of non-intervention and insists on entangling itself with foreign affairs that will do nothing but weaken us at home. (one example is national guard equipment being unavailable to help after recent tornados)

The idea that we are fighting in Iraq to right the wrongs of 9/11 is silly.

Suzu
05-15-2007, 08:55 PM
Did anyone else get the feeling that everyone BUT Ron had the questions in advance?

Or at least had hints of what their questions would be?

They all seemed pretty polished...a little too polished, if you know what I mean?

I had that thought part of the time but not all the questions. It seemed they did give a lot more time to the "top 3" and to Huckabee. At first I thought it would be more evenly distributed with the clock but then it changed.

RylScam
05-15-2007, 08:56 PM
The biggest threat to Ron Paul's campaign is the ignorance of the American people.

Cheering for torture. What have we turned into.

Gabecpa
05-15-2007, 08:56 PM
Every question was, "You seem to be a democrat, are you sure you are at the right debate?"

Not fair to Ron really considering heis the most conservative candidate there....

Suzu
05-15-2007, 08:57 PM
I do think he's going to gain more interest from Democrats from now on.

Kandilynn
05-15-2007, 08:57 PM
Hey everybody C-Span is having a call in show thingy. It says Republican callers only about the debate.

The numbers are:

(202) 737-0001 Eastern and Central time

and

(202) 737-0002 Mountain and Pacific time

Call in and talk about PAUL!
.

MsDoodahs
05-15-2007, 08:58 PM
Well, it's a slam dunk for the democrat, no matter WHO they nominate, that's for sure.

aravoth
05-15-2007, 09:01 PM
The truth of the matter is that the Republican party showed tonight that it has moved away from its past of non-intervention and insists on entangling itself with foreign affairs that will do nothing but weaken us at home. (one example is national guard equipment being unavailable to help after recent tornados)

The idea that we are fighting in Iraq to right the wrongs of 9/11 is silly.

Exactly. God dammit Matt, if your grandad does not get invited to the next debate tell him to run independent. The american people are not stupid. All he did tonight was tell the truth.

Gabecpa
05-15-2007, 09:02 PM
Exactly. God dammit Matt, if your grandad does not get invited to the next debate tell him to run independent. The american people are not stupid. All he did tonight was tell the truth.

I know he can get on the ticket here in Minnesota as an independent. He would probably carry the state as well.....

Scribbler de Stebbing
05-15-2007, 09:02 PM
They asked him the same question twice and that was the entirety of his participation. Were they baiting him?

He never got to answer the immigration question on most of the other candidates are quishy and on which the audience would have agreed with him.

aravoth
05-15-2007, 09:03 PM
Oregon has soooo many independents here. I don't know what those other fuckers are, but they are NOT republicans, and they sure as shit are not conservative.

cujothekitten
05-15-2007, 09:06 PM
The people aren't that stupid. They know Bushes talking points of "they hate us for our freedom" is complete crap.

angelatc
05-15-2007, 09:06 PM
I went into this debate knowing that they were going to bait him somehow.

WOW! Fox is reporting that Ron Paul scored the best!!!!

ratsbew
05-15-2007, 09:06 PM
FOX Poll has Ron Paul as first.

cujothekitten
05-15-2007, 09:06 PM
I went into this debate knowing that they were going to bait him somehow.

WOW! Fox is reporting that Ron Paul scored the best!!!!

Really! LOL

Scribbler de Stebbing
05-15-2007, 09:06 PM
Guess I'm no longer a Republican either, if the other nine on stage and the bloodthirsty audience represent the GOP.

MsDoodahs
05-15-2007, 09:07 PM
ROFLOL

Y'all saw that Ron is winning their call in poll just now, right?

Scribbler de Stebbing
05-15-2007, 09:07 PM
Link to the results?

aravoth
05-15-2007, 09:14 PM
I went into this debate knowing that they were going to bait him somehow.

WOW! Fox is reporting that Ron Paul scored the best!!!!


ROFLMAO

diggerfloyd
05-15-2007, 09:15 PM
Just saw that Ron Paul had 30% of the vote, Romney was second with 27%.

I think that the exposure was good for Dr. Paul. I can't understand why you would elect anyone who doesn't realize that our foreign policy has caused some major blowback for the U.S. Which appears to be everyone else in the race.

For God's sake, I had a college professor who lived in the middle east for 20 years teaching at the American University in Beirut. He flat out told us that the extremists hated us because of what our govt. did in their part of the world. That was 15 years ago, how in the hell does Rudy, McClain and the rest of the rank and file not know that, or atleast not admit it. And how in the hell does the audience at the debate not know that.

Let's hope that the attention he gets from this debate atleast gives him an opportunity to completely voice his platform to the public. Small soundbytes, taken out of contest and/or twisted won't do him any good.

aravoth
05-15-2007, 09:15 PM
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Hawaii Libertarian
05-15-2007, 09:16 PM
ROFLOL

Y'all saw that Ron is winning their call in poll just now, right?

As of 11:10 PM EDT on Fox:

Paul 30 percent

Romney 28 percent

Giuliani 16 percent

Notice that it took a while for them to release their results--they probably soiled themselves when they saw the results, and of course, Carl Cameron tried to explain away the result saying that Paul supporters were better prepared and organized (which may also true.) No vote totals were released. I got a text message back from Fox acknowledging successful receipt of my vote.

On MSNBC with 2,620 votes:

Paul 68 percent positive

Romney 18 percent

Giuliani 14 percent

BTW, that idiot Hannity said there was no way Paul won the debate--he is showing his true, neoconservative colors as a fake "conservative." I will no longer listen to his show or support his advertisers.

angelatc
05-15-2007, 09:18 PM
Guliani 3rd with 16%. McCain (what a liar!) is at 3%.

If they do try to exclude Dr. Paul from the next debate, there's a good chance that a new viable 3rd party will emerge from the internet fall out.

I've died and gone to heaven.

aravoth
05-15-2007, 09:18 PM
Yeah I just got my confirmation also

aravoth
05-15-2007, 09:19 PM
lol, just goes to show you, these stupid butt-licking neo-cons don't pick our leaders, we do.

Scribbler de Stebbing
05-15-2007, 09:20 PM
We probably ARE going to have to go third party. But this exposure is a great start. Now they'll be talking about Ron Paul being anti-war and the Big Candidates we'll use him as a poster child. All excellent launching material for a third party candidate!

That said, shouldn't we be out among the great unwashed commenting on blogs and on newsites to spin things for RP?

billv
05-15-2007, 09:22 PM
Guess I'm no longer a Republican either, if the other nine on stage and the bloodthirsty audience represent the GOP.

I agree. They have all been Hannitized. It seems like they are all too bullheaded and stubborn to even wonder if we could have engendered much of the hatred towards us. Is anyone attacking Japan? They are as free and decadent as we are. They have/had the world's second largest economy. The "they hate us for our freedom" argument is bull. Even if they did hate us for what we do with our freedom, then I'm sure they see our corrosive culture as an attack on theirs. Not to condone what they did. It's never right to kill innocents. But its wrong to think that "We're Americans, We can do no wrong!!" Total lack of thoughtfulness. Many people have given their minds over to the neo-cons.

NMCB3
05-15-2007, 09:23 PM
Ron Paul spoke truth to power, thats very courageous and he`s the man.

Brandybuck
05-15-2007, 09:25 PM
If the other candidates can't get their supporters excited enough to vote in online polls, then they deserve their lousy results.

The big story out of these polls is that no of the other GOP candidates have bases willing to exert the effort to click a mouse button. Frankly, I think most of them are going for the "ho hum" vote.

Bryan
05-15-2007, 09:26 PM
That said, shouldn't we be out among the great unwashed commenting on blogs and on newsites to spin things for RP?

Here's one:
Who won the second GOP debate?
http://boards.msn.com/MSNBCboards/thread.aspx?threadid=286491

angelatc
05-15-2007, 09:27 PM
BTW, that idiot Hannity said there was no way Paul won the debate--he is showing his true, neoconservative colors as a fake "conservative." I will no longer listen to his show or support his advertisers.

Hannity is a Guiliani man, through and through. In his eyes, Dr. Paul handed Rudy the ability to win the night by disrespecting 9/11. But apparently the viewers didn't fall for it.

The look on Hannity's face when the first results came in? Priceless!

Tancredo is only at 3%? I thought he had a pretty good night.

billv
05-15-2007, 09:28 PM
I love Tancredo as well. He'd be my second choice and I think brownback would be my third.

billv
05-15-2007, 09:29 PM
Hannity's talking about Iran and North Korea as well. Lol, it took us four years so far to get nowhere in Iraq and these morons think we can handle Afghanistan, Iran, and North Korea.

angelatc
05-15-2007, 09:32 PM
http://www.townhall.com/blog/g/b6606331-a6c3-424b-8c69-306cb17a3442?comments=true#comments

Here's a blogger who thinks Rudy won.

WhiteWhaleHolyGrail
05-15-2007, 09:40 PM
I thought the first debate was more successful for Dr. Paul. In this debate he was outright ignored, and the 3 questions he had were very pointed. And then there was the whole Giuliani thing. I was hoping he would have been able to appeal to a new audience, I am worried that is not the case.

cujothekitten
05-15-2007, 09:42 PM
I thought the first debate was more successful for Dr. Paul. In this debate he was outright ignored, and the 3 questions he had were very pointed. And then there was the whole Giuliani thing. I was hoping he would have been able to appeal to a new audience, I am worried that is not the case.

Why? He's winning all the polls so far.

Teflon Master
05-15-2007, 09:44 PM
hahahaha Ron Paul just saved some serious face there. Lets hope enough people saw that.

amonasro
05-15-2007, 09:44 PM
amazing, paul just managed to save a lot of face, and HAND IT to HANNITY! Thank you Colmes for giving him some air time.

swatmc
05-15-2007, 09:45 PM
I love the man's style. He asks a question. While Dr. Paul was trying to answer... Hannity interrupted. He didn't let him answer!

cujothekitten
05-15-2007, 09:47 PM
What'd he say?

Stinker
05-15-2007, 09:47 PM
Also I loved the minute of air time.

Scribbler de Stebbing
05-15-2007, 09:49 PM
Someone PLEASE get that up on YouTube.

Sigh. Maybe I should get cable just for the debates. Never watch tv otherwise, despite all the quality programming.

billv
05-15-2007, 09:52 PM
I am so absolutely furious with Hannity. What a bastard. Seriously. You invite the guy to clarify his remarks, and then when he's making sense, trying to clarify his misrepresented position, in typical Hannity fashion, he talks over him so he can't get his point out. What a fat mouthed bastard.

WhiteWhaleHolyGrail
05-15-2007, 09:54 PM
Ha ha - he totally schooled Hannity. Ron Paul is winning the internet polls but I am worried that he has not been given the opportunity to share his entire platform with the non-internet types.

Perhaps when the internet has reached a maturity where it is more commonplace that will mean people like Ron Paul are heard by all. Then we will look back at him as a vital groundbreaker in taking back our country from the establishment.

MsDoodahs
05-15-2007, 09:56 PM
These idiots on Fox can't figure out that Dr. Paul HAS A LOT OF SUPPORT.

Not EVERY GOP person is a frikken WAR HUNGRY IDIOT.

Why is that so hard for them to believe that Dr. Paul has a lot of support when SEVENTY PERCENT of the whole country does NOT approve of this war?

billv
05-15-2007, 09:57 PM
Hannity just said he challenged Ron on it. LOL. Since when is talking over someone challenging them.

Teflon Master
05-15-2007, 09:58 PM
What'd he say?

Basically, Ron Paul said that he isn't running for republicans, he is running for the people. He won't run as an independent if he doesn't get the nod. Hannity then says "do you believe America is responsible for the attacks on 9/11". Paul responded with the truth that that was a complete cop-out, trying to make it sound like a vote for Paul is a vote against America. Hannity keeps pressing, Paul answered with a no. He then further explained that the CIA and common sense would indicate that if you keep putting restrictive and counterproductive measures against Muslim countries, they will get angry and a sound and intelligent foreign policy would have prevented it. Hannity then yells over him and says "so you have no morality and would let mass killings like when Saddam gassed the Kurds". Paul responded correctly in saying America has sat idly by for years while mass killings and human rights abuse have been happening, just like America and the gassing of the Kurds. Paul then said if you want to wage war you have to declare it, Hannity said some trash about how it was and there is nothing in the constitution saying such a thing.

Oh yeah, Colmes earlier asked him how could he be libertarian if he is pro-life, and he responded that it he is correct in the realm of the constitution and it is states business.

Melchior
05-15-2007, 10:03 PM
Oh yeah, Colmes earlier asked him how could he be libertarian if he is pro-life, and he responded that it he is correct in the realm of the constitution and it is states business.

That was just such a dumbass question.

Libertarians aren't official pro-choice, libertarians are split on the issue, and regardless we aren't in favor of federal funding or usurping states rights.

Colmes is a dumbass and so is Hannity.

JoshLowry
05-15-2007, 10:07 PM
Ha ha - he totally schooled Hannity. Ron Paul is winning the internet polls but I am worried that he has not been given the opportunity to share his entire platform with the non-internet types.


He wasn't able to get it his message out as well at this debate, but it's still the same as what we saw in the first one.

As far as sharing his platform with non internet types, that's where the internet people come in. Time to hit the streets.

jimvkruse
05-15-2007, 10:11 PM
Being pro-life is consistent with the libertarian defense of life, liberty, and property.

Hawaii Libertarian
05-16-2007, 11:10 AM
As one would expect, the establishment media shrills are already writing their obituaries for the Paul candidacy, ridiculing his exchange with Giuliani, and taking cheap shots.

Still, many of the MSM are not highlighting this too much, so their strategy still seems to be marginalizing Dr. Paul by minimizing any coverage of him.

Surprisingly, the comments on two recent New York Times articles about the debate have included quite a few positive comments on Dr. Paul and his views.

As usual, the "establishment" conservatives at the National Review, U.S. News and World Report, and other MSM seem to have written off Dr. Paul.

It's not as bleak as it might seem. As of 1:00 PM EDT today, Dr. Paul is still solidly leading the MSNBC online poll with a 45 percent positive rating over second place Romney who is at 25 percent, and Giuliani third at 24 percent, with a total of 26,592 votes cast so far.

It will be interesting to learn the Nielsen ratings for the debate. Either the other Republican campaigns must be writing off the MSNBC online poll, or they are for the most part unable to energize their grassroots activists, despite a huge organizing and financial advantage.

The Fox poll only managed a total 40K plus votes from people who cared enough to vote and had cell phones and knew how to text message.

The way I read these results, the other campaigns are not generating that much excitement, despite the audience cheers for Giuliani in the hall last night.

We still have a lot of work to do and it will be interesting to see how Dr. Paul places in the upcoming "scientific" polls.

cujothekitten
05-16-2007, 11:15 AM
Being pro-life is consistent with the libertarian defense of life, liberty, and property.

Pro-choicer use property as an argument for abortion. A woman owns her own body so she can choose what happens to it. Since a fetus is attached to her body it is part of her.

It can be, and is, argued with life vs. property. Personally I'm on the fence with this issue.

jimvkruse
05-16-2007, 11:19 AM
They try and argue that way by dehumanizing the fetus. Obviously, many scientists and doctors (like Dr. Paul) say that a pregnant woman represents two lives, not just one, and that both lives should be protected by the Constitution.