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Mach
06-04-2008, 06:20 PM
Hillary is out, she will make it official on Friday.



http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004457957_webhillary04m.html

Fox McCloud
06-04-2008, 06:54 PM
I saw this and was totally shocked...well, that leaves only Nebraska (July 12th) and the primary seasons will be 100% finished...well, they're finished now, but Nebraska won't assign delegates until the 12th of July to Ron and McCain.

Either way, total shocker.

Kludge
06-04-2008, 06:58 PM
Booooo... Democrats uniting.

Nirvikalpa
06-04-2008, 07:00 PM
I don't know why she quit. So much crap will be coming out about Obama, if I was her, I'd be spreading it far and wide... :D

Bummer :( I know some Dems that wouldn't be caught dead voting for Obama though... time to start swaying :)

voytechs
06-04-2008, 07:04 PM
I lost a bottle of Cogniac :( I'm not paying up until after the primaries though.

yongrel
06-04-2008, 07:15 PM
Yes, the Powers That Be definitely orchestrated her victory.

Bruno
06-04-2008, 07:16 PM
I don't know why she quit. So much crap will be coming out about Obama, if I was her, I'd be spreading it far and wide... :D

Bummer :( I know some Dems that wouldn't be caught dead voting for Obama though... time to start swaying :)


She's suspending her campaign, from what I hear. That means if anything comes out on Obama, she could jump back in and retain her delegates.

Kludge
06-04-2008, 07:21 PM
Yes, the Powers That Be definitely orchestrated her victory.

Don't fall for the false guise of defeat They have propagated!

Once she's nominated VP and Obama is sworn in, you'll soon see that a terrorist assassinated this beacon of freedom.

Just ask AJ.

Fox McCloud
06-04-2008, 07:55 PM
*chuckles* over at Democratic Underground they're all worried that she has a trick card up her sleeve that'll totally obliterate Obama.

*shrug* who knows? Either way, I'm really surprised the (as Yongrel called them) "Powers that Be" wanted Obama in over Hillary. *shrug* perhaps he was more suited for what's to come.

pcosmar
06-04-2008, 07:59 PM
The show goes on.
The circus continues.
If only we could hope that she would just go away.

Michael Ingram
06-04-2008, 08:01 PM
Anyone heard of Vince Foster? I just found out about him today.

Mach
06-04-2008, 11:55 PM
Anyone heard of Vince Foster? I just found out about him today.

The Death of Vince Foster - What Really Happened?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4113276458031151696

revolutionary8
06-05-2008, 12:02 AM
Bitlary will NEVER give up.


Neither should we, but on a peaceful level.

Tell everyone about Vince Foster for starters.
And the Clinton d&ath count.
Then they will know what they are dealing with.

electronicmaji
06-05-2008, 12:09 AM
I'm glad she's dropping out, finally. She's giving a chance for a true anti war candidate to actually win.

Mach
06-05-2008, 12:18 AM
I'm glad she's dropping out, finally. She's giving a chance for a true anti war candidate to actually win.

Watch this and listen to what Obama says about Iran......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cOJNC2EuJw

Bruno
06-05-2008, 12:27 AM
\
Anyone heard of Vince Foster? I just found out about him today.

Quite a eyeopener, huh?

A friend dropped off the book The Strange Death of Vincent Foster at my desk at work one day back in 1999. I coudn't put it down. It has so much intriquing detail. If you love a murder mystery, you'll be glued to this one because you it actually happened. There is little doubt there was a cover up of his death. And does it get any more timely than Hillary's newest campaign Maggie Williams was her aid at the time of his death and took files illegally from his desk and had to testify in court.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23099005/

Oddly, the link above about Maggie Williams becoming Hillary's campaign manager neglects to mention that she was under oath testifying for her role in the death of Vincent Foster. For that matter, for a candidate who consistently claims to be "vetted", why weren't these seemingly alarming issues and "errors in judgement" over who she chooses to hire ever brought up in the current campaign?

Amazon Search Inside here:

http://www.amazon.com/STRANGE-DEATH-VINCENT-FOSTER/dp/0684838370

You'd both Clinton's role in the death of Vince Foster and the events that followed would have received more attention since she was running for the highest office in the land. Instead, the MSM chose to spend 90% of their time talking about non-issues such as who might win in what state if this or that happens.


The Death of Vince Foster - What Really Happened?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4113276458031151696

Thanks! I'll finish it tomorrow.

electronicmaji
06-05-2008, 01:26 AM
Watch this and listen to what Obama says about Iran......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cOJNC2EuJw

He says what he has to. His policies on Iran are not important in this election as no one in their right mind thinks he will attack Iran. He says what he needs to get votes. And I can accept that as long as he follows throught with fixing the economy and getting us out of Iraq. Its either that or a depression and my whole family; who is already hanging by a thread; dies of starvation.

Drknows
06-05-2008, 02:04 AM
He says what he has to. His policies on Iran are not important in this election as no one in their right mind thinks he will attack Iran. He says what he needs to get votes. And I can accept that as long as he follows throught with fixing the economy and getting us out of Iraq. Its either that or a depression and my whole family; who is already hanging by a thread; dies of starvation.

Yes because we all know raising taxes is going to help the economy.


He says what he has to.. So how can you believe anything that comes out of his mouth?

Hes lying just like the democrats lied in 2006 to get elected. Must we forget this election is rigged? Obama is no diffrent than Hillary or Mccain. The talking points may sound diffrent coming from pundits on Corporate TV but its all going to be the same mark my words. The Democrats Vs Republicans thing is just smoke and mirrors to distract you.

Sure they might bring some troops home to please the sheep but that was already planned and we will be in Iraq indefinitely for a very long time just like Korea.

Mini-Me
06-05-2008, 02:05 AM
He says what he has to. His policies on Iran are not important in this election as no one in their right mind thinks he will attack Iran. He says what he needs to get votes. And I can accept that as long as he follows throught with fixing the economy and getting us out of Iraq. Its either that or a depression and my whole family; who is already hanging by a thread; dies of starvation.

Err...fix the economy? The only way to save our economy is to stop printing money, stop deficit spending, deregulate, and significantly decrease the size of the federal government (and even then, the coming Social Security and Medicare collapse will still make it one hell of a close call...). Obama, on the other hand, knows nothing about economics (and that's me being optimistic - I'd be horrified if I learned that Obama actually knew what he was doing). His vague plan to "fix the economy" includes expanding the size and authority of government, socializing health care, and probably pushing even more socialist policies than FDR (who gave us Social Security...). His ideas will "sound great" to the average person who wants the US to become more like Europe (which is getting worse by the day), but they'll ultimately further doom the economy and push spending even further over the top than we've seen during recent years. Every single thing he does will make the problem worse.

As far as Obama saying what he has to - yes, he does. Likewise, he'll DO what he has to as well, which means keeping the US on its path to implosion. His statements on Iran are very relevant to the economy, by the way - he clearly intends to continue and expand our empire, which will continue to endanger us and prevent us from freeing up resources that could be used to save us from economic peril.

Pauls' Revere
06-05-2008, 02:06 AM
The Death of Vince Foster - What Really Happened?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4113276458031151696

Some folks told me today that "back in the day" she was cheating on Bill and the guy was found dead on her front yard!?!? wha?? any truth to this??? wtf.

Kraig
06-05-2008, 02:21 AM
He says what he has to. His policies on Iran are not important in this election as no one in their right mind thinks he will attack Iran. He says what he needs to get votes. And I can accept that as long as he follows throught with fixing the economy and getting us out of Iraq. Its either that or a depression and my whole family; who is already hanging by a thread; dies of starvation.

Are you fucking serious? The only way any politician will help your family is if they completely leave them alone. Or if you are only worried about them starving, have them become slaves, slaves never starve, they have to be kept alive. Obama would be a good choice then.

Mach
06-05-2008, 02:28 AM
Thanks! I'll finish it tomorrow.

Your Welcome. It's the same old stuff, lots of coincidental mistakes and outright crimes that no one has to answer for and the MSM goes right along (for some strange reason :rolleyes: ).

After awhile you start to see more and more reality and you realize that, instead of there being crimes committed here and there, it's the other way around, it seems like if there is not a crime taking place it is an exception to the rule. The sick thing about this is that for every "crime" we find there are shitloads more that we won't ever know about.


He says what he has to. His policies on Iran are not important in this election as no one in their right mind thinks he will attack Iran. He says what he needs to get votes. And I can accept that as long as he follows throught with fixing the economy and getting us out of Iraq. Its either that or a depression and my whole family; who is already hanging by a thread; dies of starvation.

Follows through? Do you think that he can really do Jack-Squat with the economy? I hate to break it to you, maybe this is new to you, but, they all say they're going to fix the economy...... why do you believe he can do it? Dems and Reps, different paths... same destination (destined-nation).

CurtisLow
06-05-2008, 09:02 AM
Since Hillary and McCain are close buddies, what if they were to group up (The big suck)

Bruno
06-05-2008, 09:26 AM
Some folks told me today that "back in the day" she was cheating on Bill and the guy was found dead on her front yard!?!? wha?? any truth to this??? wtf.


Not sure about the cheating, but I heard that, too. More likely as a motive is that he was their accountant and knew all about the Whitewater dealings.

He was not found dead in her front yard, but rather in a park close to the capitol. His body had been moved post mordem, which is quite strange for a suicide victim to move their own body after death.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
06-05-2008, 09:26 AM
Booooo... Democrats uniting.

How can the Democrats unite?
To do so they would need to:

1) Go back and reestablish the primaries in Florida and Michigan.
2) But the action of penalizing the primaries in Florida and Michigan will keep the Democratic decision from being thrown into the convention in Denver regardless.
3) The lack of having a convention is based on picking the popular candidate, Obama, rather than the candidate who best matches up against the candidate in the opposing party, this would be McCain.

In my opinion, Hillary could save the Democratic party by:

1) Threatening to step out as an Independent unless the primary elections are held again in Florida and Michigan.
2) Reestablishing the purpose of the primary process of picking the best candidate relative to the opposing candidate in the other party in contrast with picking the most popular candidate within the party itself, by throwing the ultimate decision into the convention in Denver.

But CNN and the other naive media outlets can't think in this way without possibly losing lots of sponsors.

HOLLYWOOD
06-05-2008, 09:51 AM
Hillary is out, she will make it official on Friday.



http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004457957_webhillary04m.html

Just like the Pander Narcissistic Politicians they most are... she couldn't concede on Tuesday night when all was lost... she had to drag it out for another date. I'm sure she'll have a speech INFLICTING her special interest and coffers paid restitution into the mix, just like Tuesday night, especially her largest Special Interest Groups, Israel's AIPAC and Government's AFSCME!

On a Brighter Note... Maybe she can now work on the Huge Ass of hers! Believe it or not, I didn't realize just how huge it was until South Park producers did a little excerpt on one of their episodes in a news report. Very Funny

Now we know why Bill is out banging all these other women.

voytechs
06-05-2008, 10:05 AM
I've been thinking about the reason why she was told to drop out and what she was promised in return. This is my speculation:

Obama will be the sacrificial goat over next 4 years. He'll be able to blame most of the economic problems on Bush. Hillary was probably promised the office in 2012. So Obama is going to take the initial economic hit and is a perfect socialist candidate for all those people going on the social services over next 4 years. He's been promising anything and everything from the get go. After 4 years of economic hell, Hillary is going to come back into the picture as the savior with her new economic plans which mostly blame everything on the old dollar and those greedy financial institutions that caused the financial bubbles.

She's going to come in with loads of new regulation of those evil and greedy financial institutions (aka. socialism in disguise), may be even promise new currency (fiat of course) that is going to solve all of our problems in one shot and all the sheeple are going to love it and fall for it like they always do. In the mean time I think we're going to hear a lot more over next 4 years about the North American Union, but in positive light. Of course after the election.

I'm not sure about the timing, but I think Bush will attack Iran before he leaves office so that Obama can just take it over and run with it. That will trigger a sharp downturn, so I think they are going to wait until the very last possible moment or when they themselves predict when we will approach the economic cliff naturally and time it that way.

Her timing and the Bilderberg meeting going on at the same time mean to me, that a plan of action has been drawn out.

Aratus
06-05-2008, 10:15 AM
grover cleveland's two terms weren't back to back... benjamin harrison interviened.
does hillary still want to be a potus? could she run again in 2012 the way she did now?
is barack obama weighing in his mind the plethora of problems a PO'ed rival can create?

Unspun
06-05-2008, 10:34 AM
She'll only suspend her campaign, that way she can come back in it at any time...

dsentell
06-05-2008, 10:53 AM
I don't think the Billery campaign is truly over. Story still developing . . .

electronicmaji
06-05-2008, 12:51 PM
Yes because we all know raising taxes is going to help the economy.


He says what he has to.. So how can you believe anything that comes out of his mouth?

Hes lying just like the democrats lied in 2006 to get elected. Must we forget this election is rigged? Obama is no diffrent than Hillary or Mccain. The talking points may sound diffrent coming from pundits on Corporate TV but its all going to be the same mark my words. The Democrats Vs Republicans thing is just smoke and mirrors to distract you.

Sure they might bring some troops home to please the sheep but that was already planned and we will be in Iraq indefinitely for a very long time just like Korea.

Your claims that the election is rigged makes me unable to take your post seriously. Sorry.

electronicmaji
06-05-2008, 12:52 PM
Err...fix the economy? The only way to save our economy is to stop printing money, stop deficit spending, deregulate, and significantly decrease the size of the federal government (and even then, the coming Social Security and Medicare collapse will still make it one hell of a close call...). Obama, on the other hand, knows nothing about economics (and that's me being optimistic - I'd be horrified if I learned that Obama actually knew what he was doing). His vague plan to "fix the economy" includes expanding the size and authority of government, socializing health care, and probably pushing even more socialist policies than FDR (who gave us Social Security...). His ideas will "sound great" to the average person who wants the US to become more like Europe (which is getting worse by the day), but they'll ultimately further doom the economy and push spending even further over the top than we've seen during recent years. Every single thing he does will make the problem worse.

As far as Obama saying what he has to - yes, he does. Likewise, he'll DO what he has to as well, which means keeping the US on its path to implosion. His statements on Iran are very relevant to the economy, by the way - he clearly intends to continue and expand our empire, which will continue to endanger us and prevent us from freeing up resources that could be used to save us from economic peril.


Again, the only thing that will fix our economy is balancing the budget. I can trust Democrats to do that. Not Republicans. It's that simple.

You may go on and on about the Gold Standard; but I'll tell you even most of those who follow Ron Paul don't exactly beleive everything he says about that.

electronicmaji
06-05-2008, 12:54 PM
Are you fucking serious? The only way any politician will help your family is if they completely leave them alone. Or if you are only worried about them starving, have them become slaves, slaves never starve, they have to be kept alive. Obama would be a good choice then.

I'm sorry, Are you serious? I understand if you think Ron Paul is a better politician; but there is a difference between the Democrats and Republicans; especially for the poor like my family. You can go on extremist rants; but they will be nothing more than that: extremism.

Moderation in everything.

electronicmaji
06-05-2008, 12:55 PM
Your Welcome. It's the same old stuff, lots of coincidental mistakes and outright crimes that no one has to answer for and the MSM goes right along (for some strange reason :rolleyes: ).

After awhile you start to see more and more reality and you realize that, instead of there being crimes committed here and there, it's the other way around, it seems like if there is not a crime taking place it is an exception to the rule. The sick thing about this is that for every "crime" we find there are shitloads more that we won't ever know about.



Follows through? Do you think that he can really do Jack-Squat with the economy? I hate to break it to you, maybe this is new to you, but, they all say they're going to fix the economy...... why do you believe he can do it? Dems and Reps, different paths... same destination (destined-nation).

I beleive he has a better chance at doing something about the economy than McSame. Thats good enought to get him my vote.

pinkmandy
06-05-2008, 12:56 PM
The show goes on.
The circus continues.
If only we could hope that she would just go away.

QFT. We'll see if she disappears. But my, if she backs out now the dems will be happy and if, oops, something happens that keeps Obama from running she'll be the #1 choice. And she'll be respected for "backing out" for the "good of the party". :rolleyes:

electronicmaji
06-05-2008, 12:57 PM
How can the Democrats unite?
To do so they would need to:

1) Go back and reestablish the primaries in Florida and Michigan.
2) But the action of penalizing the primaries in Florida and Michigan will keep the Democratic decision from being thrown into the convention in Denver regardless.
3) The lack of having a convention is based on picking the popular candidate, Obama, rather than the candidate who best matches up against the candidate in the opposing party, this would be McCain.

In my opinion, Hillary could save the Democratic party by:

1) Threatening to step out as an Independent unless the primary elections are held again in Florida and Michigan.
2) Reestablishing the purpose of the primary process of picking the best candidate relative to the opposing candidate in the other party in contrast with picking the most popular candidate within the party itself, by throwing the ultimate decision into the convention in Denver.

But CNN and the other naive media outlets can't think in this way without possibly losing lots of sponsors.

Please...back when Ron Paul was campaigning we accepted the penalties put on the Republican states and Democrat states as opportunities. They did something wrong; they get penalized. It's a simple rule and I fully support punishing the states that don't follow the rule. So did Hillary; and so did everyone on these forums; when it was convenient for them.

Stop being a hypocryte and changing views just because you want Hillary to run longer.

pinkmandy
06-05-2008, 01:02 PM
I'm sorry, Are you serious? I understand if you think Ron Paul is a better politician; but there is a difference between the Democrats and Republicans; especially for the poor like my family. You can go on extremist rants; but they will be nothing more than that: extremism.

Moderation in everything.


Yes, whatever would poor families do if they couldn't depend on the govt STEALING money from other people and redistributing it? When my middle class taxes pay for someone else's food stamps, meanwhile I can't save as much money as I need to thanks to the govt's destruction of our dollar...yeah, sounds fair to me. :rolleyes:

electronicmaji
06-05-2008, 01:08 PM
Yes, whatever would poor families do if they couldn't depend on the govt STEALING money from other people and redistributing it? When my middle class taxes pay for someone else's food stamps, meanwhile I can't save as much money as I need to thanks to the govt's destruction of our dollar...yeah, sounds fair to me. :rolleyes:

Pinkmandy;Moderation in everything. Socialism is a important economic tool when used in moderation. I am not snooty enought nor paranoid enought to go on SOCIALISM = COMMUNISM = EVIL rants. I am against Socialist programs that don't allow choice. But neither party will change things with regard to those programs so if we are going to have those programs it would make sense to pick someone who would at least make them work.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
06-05-2008, 01:09 PM
I've been thinking about the reason why she was told to drop out and what she was promised in return. This is my speculation:

Obama will be the sacrificial goat over next 4 years. He'll be able to blame most of the economic problems on Bush. Hillary was probably promised the office in 2012. So Obama is going to take the initial economic hit and is a perfect socialist candidate for all those people going on the social services over next 4 years. He's been promising anything and everything from the get go. After 4 years of economic hell, Hillary is going to come back into the picture as the savior with her new economic plans which mostly blame everything on the old dollar and those greedy financial institutions that caused the financial bubbles.

She's going to come in with loads of new regulation of those evil and greedy financial institutions (aka. socialism in disguise), may be even promise new currency (fiat of course) that is going to solve all of our problems in one shot and all the sheeple are going to love it and fall for it like they always do. In the mean time I think we're going to hear a lot more over next 4 years about the North American Union, but in positive light. Of course after the election.

I'm not sure about the timing, but I think Bush will attack Iran before he leaves office so that Obama can just take it over and run with it. That will trigger a sharp downturn, so I think they are going to wait until the very last possible moment or when they themselves predict when we will approach the economic cliff naturally and time it that way.

Her timing and the Bilderberg meeting going on at the same time mean to me, that a plan of action has been drawn out.

All sounds like great plans! Perhaps Ron Paul can run as their running mates?

acptulsa
06-05-2008, 01:12 PM
But neither party will change things with regard to those programs so if we are going to have those programs it would make sense to pick someone who would at least make them work.

Let us make a little more headway and we'll see if there's a party that will change things or not. Certainly the "change" candidate will do nothing of the sort. As for picking someone who will make them work, I suggest you pick someone at the state level. I don't care if you put in Clinton or Obama or the reincarnation of FDR, at this point in history the federal government is broken and possibly irreparable. Did you learn no lesson from Katrina at all?

electronicmaji
06-05-2008, 01:18 PM
Let us make a little more headway and we'll see if there's a party that will change things or not. Certainly the "change" candidate will do nothing of the sort. As for picking someone who will make them work, I suggest you pick someone at the state level. I don't care if you put in Clinton or Obama or the reincarnation of FDR, at this point in history the federal government is broken and possibly irreparable. Did you learn no lesson from Katrina at all?

I disagree that it is irreparable. I am daring to hope that Obama can do something to it. I would vote for Ron Paul even if he ran as a Independent; but as things go I have no other choices but Obama. I can at least be sure he will stop the war in Iraq.

acptulsa
06-05-2008, 01:23 PM
I can at least be sure he will stop the war in Iraq.

Interesting view. He hasn't promised to do it in his first term, and the way the economy is going I have serious doubts about anyone taking this mess over and then winning a second term. So I really don't see on what your faith is based.

electronicmaji
06-05-2008, 01:24 PM
Interesting view. He hasn't promised to do it in his first term, and the way the economy is going I have serious doubts about anyone taking this mess over and then winning a second term. So I really don't see on what your faith is based.

He has in fact promised to do it immedietly.

acptulsa
06-05-2008, 01:30 PM
He has in fact promised to do it immedietly.

I suggest you double-check your facts before you vote for something that you do not want...

electronicmaji
06-05-2008, 01:41 PM
I suggest you double-check your facts before you vote for something that you do not want...

I have chekced my facts; everytime he speaks he brings up the war, on his webpage he does. He's attacked Hillary over not wanting to stop the war. He wins over 70% of the antiwar vote. I have no doubt he will stop the war in Iraq and I have no reason to beleive he won't.

acptulsa
06-05-2008, 01:56 PM
I have chekced my facts; everytime he speaks he brings up the war, on his webpage he does. He's attacked Hillary over not wanting to stop the war. He wins over 70% of the antiwar vote. I have no doubt he will stop the war in Iraq and I have no reason to beleive he won't.

Well, I don't suppose faith (or hope for that matter) really requires a firm foundation. All I've ever heard in the way of specifics is not before 2013. But whatever suits you. Hope you're voting for what you think you're voting for. Meanwhile, I guess we've flown this thread sufficiently far toward Cuba and should end the hijack...

countrykidz4freedom
06-05-2008, 02:11 PM
Look at this: Etta5:55PMJun 4th 2008

OMG it won`t be Baragk Obama for sure when theis hiys the news. CHECK OUT HIS "REAL NAME" BARRY SOETORO. THIS MAN CAN BE A TERRIBLE WRECK TO THE UNITED STATES.

The man is deceptive, he appears to be something he is not, his ideas are to rob lots more tax money from us to help Africa. His bills show that very well. I watched his speech on C-span last night, till finally I couldn't take it anymore and just turned it off. I really wish these people would just come right out and speak the truth like Ron Paul does, instead of just saying whatever they think will buy the votes and confidence. Go look up his bills here: thomas.loc.gov

However, there is one reason, I wanted him to get the nomination-because maybe people will get more involved-so many actually have been under a false sense of security thinking if Hillary got the presidency it would be Ok, because we know more about her, but nearly every person I speak with immediately says they do not want this man to get in office, and willing to vote for McCain, just to try to prevent it happening, even though they are really not too impressed with McCain)

Even at the Missouri convention, the applause was very weak when they spoke about McCain-rather half-hearted compared to issues about keeping the 2nd Amendment and civil rights. (Which proved to me they don't really believe in him, just choosing him, because they think of him as their only choice) Now, I have said since shortly after our primaries here that it will come down to 2, Ron Paul, and Obama-don't ask me how I expect it to happen, but I believe it will. So now we see Obama won the dems nomination, I am still waiting for God to bring the rest of it to pass. I know that a lot of people here do not believe like I do for their own particular reasons, but I have seen too many things happen in my life, not to believe-all we have to do is our part, continuing spreading the message of truth, and hope for America.

Mach
06-05-2008, 02:12 PM
electronicmaji, my first question would be...... how old are you? It seems like you have been sold on Obama, all I can come up with is that you make your decisions in life based on emotion, so, you are easily sold on things that you would like to be the truth, all Obama has to do with you is plant some seeds and you take over from there. No matter what any politician tells the people, it is crap, they already have their personal agendas in place before they ever start running for an Office.

That is what Ron Paul is all about, he is the exception to the rule!

Even you said that Obama was just telling AIPAC what it wanted to hear. So, he was lying to that group, but not the other one(s)? That alone should tell you what you're going to vote for. A TALENTED SHIT-TALKER!

Nirvikalpa
06-05-2008, 02:29 PM
So, as long as Obama gets the troops out of Iraq, it's ok to vote for him, even though he'll put them right into Pakistan, and will eventually put them in Iran.

Our young men and women are doomed. No one cares about who they vote for unless they're the ones that risk the potential of fighting in the front lines - or thats how it seems with Obama supporters - who STILL EVEN AFTER ALL OF THIS TIME think he is ANTI-WAR WHEN IN FACT HE IS NOT. Once again:

OBAMA IS NOT ANTI-WAR!

proof (http://www.barackobama.com/2007/08/01/the_war_we_need_to_win.php)
proof (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Barack_Obama:_U.S._presidential_el ection%2C_2008/On_war_with_Iran)
proof (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7437060.stm)

"Let there be no doubt: I will always keep the threat of military action on the table to defend our security and our ally, Israel. Do not be confused."

Liberty4Free
06-05-2008, 04:44 PM
He has in fact promised to do it immedietly.

16 months doesn't seem like "immediately" to me, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Will you be the first to fess up if come January 2009 combat brigades are not on their way back?

electronicmaji
06-05-2008, 06:08 PM
electronicmaji, my first question would be...... how old are you? It seems like you have been sold on Obama, all I can come up with is that you make your decisions in life based on emotion, so, you are easily sold on things that you would like to be the truth, all Obama has to do with you is plant some seeds and you take over from there. No matter what any politician tells the people, it is crap, they already have their personal agendas in place before they ever start running for an Office.

That is what Ron Paul is all about, he is the exception to the rule!

Even you said that Obama was just telling AIPAC what it wanted to hear. So, he was lying to that group, but not the other one(s)? That alone should tell you what you're going to vote for. A TALENTED SHIT-TALKER!

No he said what he needed to get elected, he wasn't lying. No one who doesn't support Israel is going to get elected in the USA, especially a Democrat. Especially a man like Obama who is perceived as a anti-semite by american Jews. He's going to support Israel, so is any presidential candidate that has any chance of winning for now to the next 20 years.

I'm sold on Obama because of his inexperience. Just as I was sold on Ron Paul because of his record. Ron Paul can just as easily plant these seeds as can Obama. The fact is I think that if anyone in the Democratic party isn't corrupt it will probably be Obama. As much as you like to smear him and talk bad about him (and I have seen the same done to Ron Paul) I have yet to see any serious arguements about his character or his record. I understand hes a Democrat, hes going to do some things that are Socialist. I am not 100% in agreement with him. I wasn't 100% in agreement with Ron Paul. I am a moderate and I think we need Moderation in all things. More importantly I think there needs to be a balance between the two parties. The Republicans were in office and failed miserably, its the Democrats turn to fail miserably or maybe make things better. With Obama there is nothing for me to lose; our country is already in the Shitter. With McSame there is a legacy that already pushed us into recession; and that does not spark confidence in me.

electronicmaji
06-05-2008, 06:10 PM
So, as long as Obama gets the troops out of Iraq, it's ok to vote for him, even though he'll put them right into Pakistan, and will eventually put them in Iran.

Our young men and women are doomed. No one cares about who they vote for unless they're the ones that risk the potential of fighting in the front lines - or thats how it seems with Obama supporters - who STILL EVEN AFTER ALL OF THIS TIME think he is ANTI-WAR WHEN IN FACT HE IS NOT. Once again:

OBAMA IS NOT ANTI-WAR!

proof (http://www.barackobama.com/2007/08/01/the_war_we_need_to_win.php)
proof (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Barack_Obama:_U.S._presidential_el ection%2C_2008/On_war_with_Iran)
proof (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7437060.stm)

"Let there be no doubt: I will always keep the threat of military action on the table to defend our security and our ally, Israel. Do not be confused."

He is against unresponsible and stupid wars and thats enought for me. He says what he needs to get elected. Once again the only way he has any chance is if he says these things. Saddly if you want to get something done its what you need to do. I love Ron Paul to death and I beleive in a lot of his things but he never for a second had a chance. Obama does, and I will support him. What is there to lose? Please tell me.

Mongoose470
06-05-2008, 06:14 PM
So Iran would be a responsible, intelligent war? We should continue our entangling military alliance with our "stalwart ally Israel?" Obama's words.

Oh, he's against the Iraq war! Pffft! It's easy to oppose the war because we're losing. Obama is taking a very safe position on a war he has voted to escalate several times.

Ron Paul flat out called Obama for what he is: A fraud.

Kludge
06-05-2008, 06:16 PM
God forbid the invasion of Israel.... Gov't be damned if they think we need to fund 'em.

electronicmaji
06-05-2008, 06:17 PM
So Iran would be a responsible, intelligent war? We should continue our entangling military alliance with our "stalwart ally Israel?" Obama's words.

Oh, he's against the Iraq war! Pffft! It's easy to oppose the war because we're losing. Obama is taking a very safe position on a war he has voted to escalate several times.

Once again, I don't really think that Obama is going to attack Iran. There would be no reason for him too. But it looks good on his "National Security" record.

More importantly; it doesn't matter if we attack Iran in the future if there is no America tommorow; and with the state of the economy, with another Bush in office; I assure you there will be no America tommorow. And right now the most important thing to me has to be the survival of the country. I have children I care about too much to let someone like McCain win.

Danke
06-05-2008, 07:09 PM
More importantly; it doesn't matter if we attack Iran in the future if there is no America tommorow; and with the state of the economy, with another Bush in office; I assure you there will be no America tommorow. And right now the most important thing to me has to be the survival of the country. I have children I care about too much to let someone like McCain win.

O.K. What is Obama's plan to fix our economy?

electronicmaji
06-05-2008, 07:50 PM
O.K. What is Obama's plan to fix our economy?

Its called Neo-Liberalism. Using traditional Liberal ideals about economy (Laissez Faire) and mixing them with safeguards and agencies that strictly monitor the growth of the economy and report mainly t o the president. Read up on it at wikipedia. It did wonders in the country of my doube nationality.

Mini-Me
06-06-2008, 12:17 AM
Again, the only thing that will fix our economy is balancing the budget. I can trust Democrats to do that. Not Republicans. It's that simple.

You may go on and on about the Gold Standard; but I'll tell you even most of those who follow Ron Paul don't exactly beleive everything he says about that.

Garden variety Democrats are more likely than garden variety Republicans to balance the budget, yes, but only by taxing the ever-living crap out of America, not by reducing spending. Ultimately, that has pretty much the same exact economic impact as not balancing the budget and just printing and borrowing money to cover the gap (the Republican way of doing things). One way we're getting taxed through inflation, and the other way we're getting directly taxed. With that level of government spending and taxation, the economy is still doomed. The ONLY thing that will save the economy is to stop printing money and significantly reduce spending - and the first place we must reduce spending is in foreign empire, so we can start paying off the debt and fixing Social Security (ultimately ending it) before it all blows up.

Anyway, I didn't even mention the gold standard a single time in my post, but I'll tell you that even most of those who follow Ron Paul are not necessarily smart enough to understand his sound reasoning for supporting it (although, more precisely, he's a fan of competing currencies and/or a gold standard, not necessarily just a gold standard). ;)


Pinkmandy;Moderation in everything. Socialism is a important economic tool when used in moderation. I am not snooty enought nor paranoid enought to go on SOCIALISM = COMMUNISM = EVIL rants. I am against Socialist programs that don't allow choice. But neither party will change things with regard to those programs so if we are going to have those programs it would make sense to pick someone who would at least make them work.

Socialism is always less efficient than the free market, because there's zero competition. No matter who is in charge, it's impossible for these programs to work the way their proponents promise or to be accountable to the people they are supposed to serve. On the whole, this means that you're not just redistributing wealth - there's less wealth being created in the first place to go around. Furthermore, socialist policies inherently don't allow choice - if they did, they wouldn't be called socialism at all (funded by collective dollars stolen from people against their will). Instead, they'd be called the free market. If you're willing, I suggest reading The Law by Frederick Bastiat. It's very short, he has excellent arguments against the very principle of socialism (which truly is the same tree as Communism, just in a different stage of growth), and it really starts picking up around a quarter of the way through.


I'm sorry, Are you serious? I understand if you think Ron Paul is a better politician; but there is a difference between the Democrats and Republicans; especially for the poor like my family. You can go on extremist rants; but they will be nothing more than that: extremism.

Moderation in everything.

There is a difference between standard-fare Republicans and Democrats, but it's superficial. One is a national socialist party, and the other is a regular socialist party (in other words, the Republican leadership's view of the future is Nazi Germany, and the Democratic leadership's view of the future is post-war East Germany).

Standard-fare Republicans are arrogant (or stupid) enough to blatantly admit that they think there's nothing wrong with our economy. Democrats, on the other hand, are smart enough to see the problems, but the best of them misdiagnose the causes and hence fall for false solutions. The worst of them simply don't give a damn about you, but they'll make appeals to the emotions and economic ignorance of the people nonetheless.

Who in government do you trust to exercise "moderation" in judgment? This kind of thinking is exactly what led us away from the Constitution and onto our slippery slope. The very economic problems you're experiencing today were directly caused by the government interventionist thinking that you're hoping will save us. We're way, wayyyy past the point of "moderate" interventionism. That's the whole point, though...increasing government power and our descent as a country have been so gradual that people have been conditioned to think that "moderation" is to continue in the same direction, but slowly in carefully. :rolleyes: In truth, "moderation" would be taking several large steps backwards in terms of government intervention, and "the right answer" would be going just about the rest of the way.


I beleive he has a better chance at doing something about the economy than McSame. Thats good enought to get him my vote.

Here you're correct - McCain will do very little with the economy except for the same shit we're used to, like printing more money and increasing corporate welfare. Obama, on the other hand, will create another eternal and invincible government bureaucracy through national healthcare (which will benefit the pharmaceutical industry, not you), completing the process of healthcare destruction that government-mandated HMO's started. Of course, this massive increase in spending will only further accelerate our economic collapse, which if nothing else, will be triggered by the Social Security bust.

I'm in no way defending McCain, either...McCain is the fucking devil, and Republicans are just as crazy to vote for him as Democrats are to vote for Obama (or Hillary, etc.). However, your vote will not decide this election, nor do I think it will even be close. Rather, Obama will win in a landslide judging by the numbers at Democratic primaries and record-high hatred for Republicans in general. In my opinion, your vote would be much better spent making the statement that you approve of neither of them. One big reason we've allowed our country to fall so far is because the vast, vast majority of people are willing to choose the supposed "lesser" of the two evils they're given as choices. If too few people say "enough is enough," our downward spiral will never end until we hit rock bottom.

Mach
06-06-2008, 12:44 AM
I know, this has been posted on RPF before, but, it's a Clinton thing, think of all the people that were saved when she dropped out. :D

CLINTON

1-James McDougal - Clinton 's convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr's investigation.
2 -Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown . The murder happened just after she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.
3- Vince Foster - Former White House counselor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock 's Rose Law firm. (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4113276458031151696) Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide.
4- Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown's skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors. The rest of the people on the plane also died. A few days later the air Traffic controller commited suicide.
5- C. Victor Raiser II- Raiser, a major player in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992
6-Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock , September 1992. Described by Clinton as a "Dear friend and trusted advisor".
7-Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in VA of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.
8-Jerry Parks -Head of Clinton's gubernatorial security team in Little Rock . Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock . Park's son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton . He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.
9-James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a "Black Book" of people which contained names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas ..
10-James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an apparent hanging suicide. He wasreported to have ties to Whitewater.
11-Kathy Ferguson- Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson, was found dead in May 1994, in her living room with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she were going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton i n the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.
12-Bill Shelton - Arkansas State Trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the grave site of his fiancee.
13-Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton 's friend Dan Lassater, died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.
14-Florence Martin - Accountant & sub-contractor for the CIA, was related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. He died of three gunshot wounds.
15- Suzanne Colem an - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.
16-Paula Grober - Clinton 's speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.
17-Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparently, in the middle of his investigation.
18- Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 "October Surprise" was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.
19-Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington , Virginia apartment balcony August15, 1993. He was investigating the Morgan Guaranty scandal.
20-Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised, nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.
21-Charles Meissner -Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.
22-Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton 's advisory council personally treated Clinton 's mother, stepfather and brother.
23-Barry Seal -Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas , death was no accident.
24-Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of a car left at his repair shop. He was found dead after his car had hit a utility pole.
25-Stanley Huggins - Investigated Madison Guaranty. His death was a purported suicide and his report was never released.
26- Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.
27-Kevin Ives & Don Henry - Known as "The boys on the track" case. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRdlHMQbzB0) Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena Arkansas airport drug operation. A controversial case, the initial report of death said, due to falling asleep on railroad tracks. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury.

THE FOLLOWING PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES/HENRY CASE:

28-Keith Coney - Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck, 7/88.
29-Keith McMaskle - Died stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988
30-Gregory Collins - Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.
31-Jeff Rhodes - He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.
33-James Milan - Found decapitated. However, the Coroner ruled his death was due to "natural causes".
34-Jordan Kettleson - Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.
35-Richard Winters - A suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. He was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.

THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD:
36 -Major William S. Barkley Jr.
37-Captain Scott J . Reynolds
38-Sgt. Brian Hanley
39-Sgt. Tim Sabel
40-Major General William Robertson
41-Col. William Densberger
42-Col. Robert Kelly
43-Spec. Gary Rhodes
44-Steve Willis
45-Robert Williams
46-Conway LeBleu
47-Todd McKeehan

I think Google Video is cleaning house!

Fox McCloud
06-06-2008, 02:39 AM
Once again, I don't really think that Obama is going to attack Iran. There would be no reason for him too. But it looks good on his "National Security" record.

Don't be so sure--he's made it this far for a reason. Call me a "conspiracy nut", but I think he was maneuvered into place...many of us thought it'd be Hillary (heck, it still could be), but he wouldn't make it this far if he didn't have some benefits to bring to the table. Hillary more or less said she'd attack Iran, McCain? Duh....Obama, again, at AIPAC, the statements are very emphatically clear....and if you're saying that he just said that to be saying that, then why do you support a liar? Either way, I don't think he's bluffing on this one....after all, he is still an interventionist.


More importantly; it doesn't matter if we attack Iran in the future if there is no America tommorow; and with the state of the economy, with another Bush in office; I assure you there will be no America tommorow. And right now the most important thing to me has to be the survival of the country. I have children I care about too much to let someone like McCain win.

Obama has sponsored several really nasty bills that would increase the tax burden on Americans, he wants to introduce national health-care, and he wants to go on "humanitarian aid" missions to other countries....plus, he mentioned Pakistan. Survival of the country is indeed important, but Obama is not going to make a single stride in the right direction--running up the national debt, increasing the tax burden, and not cutting spending are a recipe for disaster (war in Iraq or not). As it is, we could easily implode ourselves with the Fed's policies and Congress' "spend all the money in the world and print ten-fold more!" ideals, you can destroy the country just as fast. Obama hasn't shown he knows jack-squat about the economy, and he's made no mentioning of the Federal Reserve at all (which, by the by, made this war, in part, possible).

Need I also mention he's likely a CFR Member (and his wife, for 100% sure, is)? I'd hope you realize where their loyalties lie.

If you're concerned about survival of the country and your kids, write in Ron Paul's name...but, for heaven's sakes man, do NOT vote for Obama.

electronicmaji
06-06-2008, 02:07 PM
I disagree that socialization automatically excludes choice. I'm a moderate. I think Social nets can be implemented that allow people to control their Health/Education/Etc. Providers, while making things better for the poor.

DamianTV
06-06-2008, 04:06 PM
This sux. We could have used her to split the democratic vote.

electronicmaji
06-06-2008, 04:08 PM
This sux. We could have used her to split the democratic vote.

For what purpose? Another 4 years of Bush. As much as we dislike Democrats; the Republicans have been worse in the long run.